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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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rue721

rue721

These are prosperity-gospel-adjacent folks. The point is to show themselves living the good life, because it reinforces that they're favored by God. Look how blessed they are! They're a beautiful family, wearing beautiful clothes, living in a beautiful house, going to fun events with the glitterati and stuffing their faces with the yummiest food. And people will act like them and listen to what they preach because they want to be blessed by God, too, just like the Vuolos are. That's their ministry.

And I'd guess that it's pretty heavily subsidized by the people who want to draw "converts" (especially young people) into their particular kind of fundamentalism. For example, I'd guess that the house they're living in is owned by someone associated with their religious "fellowship" and who is giving them a deep discount on rent. Given the Vuolos' reach, subsidized rent and tuition scholarships is actually a pretty cheap investment.

They need to seem like shiny happy people because that not only is essentially the crux of their ministry it's also how they stay in their patrons'/"fellowship's" good graces and keeping les bons temps rouler.

Jinger's much more professional and less cheesy about it than Jeremy is because she's been doing this her whole life. She was literally born to it.

In addition, though, I think they do probably have some TV money in their pockets. Jill is certainly not the face of any brand but she's been able to buy a suburban house and put her husband through a ministry program, just like Jinger apparently is. So I would guess that the girls do each have some sort of trust or stipend or something. Meanwhile, Jessa is being a cheapskate just like she was with her wedding, but I think that's just her personality -- she's a very practical woman in her own way.

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GeeGolly
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My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

55 minutes ago, rue721 said:

These are prosperity-gospel-adjacent folks. The point is to show themselves living the good life, because it reinforces that they're favored by God. Look how blessed they are! They're a beautiful family, wearing beautiful clothes, living in a beautiful house, going to fun events with the glitterati and stuffing their faces with the yummiest food. And people will act like them and listen to what they preach because they want to be blessed by God, too, just like the Vuolos are. That's their ministry.

And I'd guess that it's pretty heavily subsidized by the people who want to draw "converts" (especially young people) into their particular kind of fundamentalism. For example, I'd guess that the house they're living in is owned by someone associated with their religious "fellowship" and who is giving them a deep discount on rent. Given the Vuolos' reach, subsidized rent and tuition scholarships is actually a pretty cheap investment.

They need to seem like shiny happy people because that not only is essentially the crux of their ministry it's also how they stay in their patrons'/"fellowship's" good graces and keeping les bons temps rouler.

Jinger's much more professional and less cheesy about it than Jeremy is because she's been doing this her whole life. She was literally born to it.

In addition, though, I think they do probably have some TV money in their pockets. Jill is certainly not the face of any brand but she's been able to buy a suburban house and put her husband through a ministry program, just like Jinger apparently is. So I would guess that the girls do each have some sort of trust or stipend or something. Meanwhile, Jessa is being a cheapskate just like she was with her wedding, but I think that's just her personality -- she's a very practical woman in her own way.

Makes sense!

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doodlebug

doodlebug

8 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Hasn't Jeremy preached against the prosperity gospel?

MacArthur, Jeremy's idol and the guy who runs the seminary Jer attends, has preached against prosperity gospel; so Jeremy is probably opposed to Osteen and that bunch, too.  However, MacArthur is worth an estimated $14 million, so he's not opposed to his own prosperity.  From what we've seen, Jeremy isn't either.  I guess they don't want their congregation to think that Jesus is going to make them wealthy because it might cut into their profits.

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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

7 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Hasn't Jeremy preached against the prosperity gospel?

Jeremy and his new spiritual leader MacArthur are not believers in the Prosperity Gospel as it is defined, but the do believe that straight cisgender rich white men are the Dog-appointed leaders of America.  It's prosperity-lite.

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awaken

awaken

3 hours ago, rue721 said:

These are prosperity-gospel-adjacent folks. The point is to show themselves living the good life, because it reinforces that they're favored by God. Look how blessed they are! They're a beautiful family, wearing beautiful clothes, living in a beautiful house, going to fun events with the glitterati and stuffing their faces with the yummiest food. And people will act like them and listen to what they preach because they want to be blessed by God, too, just like the Vuolos are. That's their ministry.

And I'd guess that it's pretty heavily subsidized by the people who want to draw "converts" (especially young people) into their particular kind of fundamentalism. For example, I'd guess that the house they're living in is owned by someone associated with their religious "fellowship" and who is giving them a deep discount on rent. Given the Vuolos' reach, subsidized rent and tuition scholarships is actually a pretty cheap investment.

They need to seem like shiny happy people because that not only is essentially the crux of their ministry it's also how they stay in their patrons'/"fellowship's" good graces and keeping les bons temps rouler..

I just wonder how it will all come crashing down. And the whole charade has to, at some point. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
11 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Hasn't Jeremy preached against the prosperity gospel?

Yeah, they officially oppose the prosperity gospel.

But the MacArthur brand of Calvinist, and, I expect, the Jeremy brand, also has a big thing for money. It's just a subtler one.

They absolutely positively want to hang out with moneyed people. (And that's compatible with being anti-prosperity gospel since per se the p.g. has mostly attracted -- and been preached for the purpose of attracting -- people without much money, bringing them in with the hope that their faith will bring the money). 

With the MacArthur/Jeremy brand, it's about looking and being all upper-crusty -- not just in a money way but in a power way -- but not really saying that Jesus gets it for you. People come because they want to rub shoulders with your upper-crusty selves. And other upper-crusties will be among your followers. People who are already well fixed will come in to be with more of their own. Meanwhile, the whole "Jesus gets you into this country club" thing is there but goes unspoken. 

Think the pretty haughty Puritan fathers and the whole image of the American power and money elite that came from that direction. Hence things like the conservative dressy-dressing, the "elite academic" atmosphere the seminary promotes, the whole parsing of scripture with the long college-lecture-like sermons, and so on. 

They are the American power structure -- and its theirs alone to tell us that, for example, social-justice seekers are ewwwww! and dirty rebels against Christ 

That's more of how they see themselves, I think. And that's not prosperity gospel. Though it's clearly about their personal prosperity (and not just in the money sense, but in the influence and power sense as well). This has long been a thread in the southern-California evangelical tapestry.

They see themselves as America's hereditary elite, which is what the mainline Protestant denominations took on the mantle of beginning in the late 19th century -- Most of the actual heirs of the Puritans went in that direction, churchwise. But whereas the mainline churches went left, these folks went determinedly right, politically. And in their minds that's what makes them -- not those mainline heretics -- the true heirs to America's Puritan founders (the true elite), I think. 

Not just money. Big shots. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
9 hours ago, awaken said:

I just wonder how it will all come crashing down. And the whole charade has to, at some point. 

And honestly I wonder whether the Jeremy part of the charade will ever actually ascend very high without fizzling. 

At this point, it seems to me the vast majority of the social-media-followers crowd (which is why MacArthur wants to link with Jer) is still mostly a Duggar-generated crowd. 

But for that crowd to serve MacArthur's purposes and, I expect, Jer's personal purposes as well, it doesn't work for them if it stays a "we're here because we've been fascinated by Duggars and/or are longtime Jinger Duggar fans." 

At some point -- and fairly soon, I would think -- if he's going to succeed, more people have to start saying, "I found this guy on insta and I love him. You gotta see him, he's great." They have to be following because Jer (and wife and baby) are cool young Calvinists who are insta influencers. Not because Jer's a guy who married a lot of people's favorite Duggarling (or just because Felicity's so so cute). 

A switchover in the source of attraction to them has to occur, it seems to me. If not, neither MacArthur nor Jer will be getting what he wants. People who are following will still just be thinking about Duggars, not necessarily getting curious about the new church Jer's led them to or even about Jer himself (as opposed to "Jinger's husband"). 

And I really wonder whether the switch will ever happen.

So far, I'd be very surprised if Jer's picking up many followers because of his activities. And I'm sure people are still seeing Jingle as Jingle of-Duggar, not Jingle of Grace Community, California.

It's early days, of course. But "Duggar" still has a lot of horsepower as a "celebrity" draw. And I wonder where sufficient horsepower in the new direction is going to come from. I don't see it at this point. I doubt Jer's attracting a whole lot of followers by his own efforts. (Although it's perfectly possible he's attracting them in droves, I guess.)

Edited by Churchhoney
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fonfereksglen

fonfereksglen

22 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

So far, I'd be very surprised if Jer's picking up many followers because of his activities. And I'm sure people are still seeing Jingle as Jingle of-Duggar, not Jingle of Grace Community, California.

It's early days, of course. But "Duggar" still has a lot of horsepower as a "celebrity" draw. And I wonder where sufficient horsepower in the new direction is going to come from. I don't see it at this point. I doubt Jer's attracting a whole lot of followers by his own efforts. (Although it's perfectly possible he's attracting them in droves, I guess.)

Exactly.  I doubt a large number of guys around his age know anything about the Duggars or watch the show.

And the old grandmas and teenage girls who watch the show because they love weddings and babies are not going to fly to California to eat giant hamburgers.

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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

And honestly I wonder whether the Jeremy part of the charade will ever actually ascend very high without fizzling. 

At this point, it seems to me the vast majority of the social-media-followers crowd (which is why MacArthur wants to link with Jer) is still mostly a Duggar-generated crowd. 

But for that crowd to serve MacArthur's purposes and, I expect, Jer's personal purposes as well, it doesn't work for them if it stays a "we're here because we've been fascinated by Duggars and/or are longtime Jinger Duggar fans." 

At some point -- and fairly soon, I would think -- if he's going to succeed, more people have to start saying, "I found this guy on insta and I love him. You gotta see him, he's great." They have to be following because Jer (and wife and baby) are cool young Calvinists who are insta influencers. Not because Jer's a guy who married a lot of people's favorite Duggarling (or just because Felicity's so so cute). 

A switchover in the source of attraction to them has to occur, it seems to me. If not, neither MacArthur nor Jer will be getting what he wants. People who are following will still just be thinking about Duggars, not necessarily getting curious about the new church Jer's led them to or even about Jer himself (as opposed to "Jinger's husband"). 

And I really wonder whether the switch will ever happen.

So far, I'd be very surprised if Jer's picking up many followers because of his activities. And I'm sure people are still seeing Jingle as Jingle of-Duggar, not Jingle of Grace Community, California.

It's early days, of course. But "Duggar" still has a lot of horsepower as a "celebrity" draw. And I wonder where sufficient horsepower in the new direction is going to come from. I don't see it at this point. I doubt Jer's attracting a whole lot of followers by his own efforts. (Although it's perfectly possible he's attracting them in droves, I guess.)

Brilliantly said. Without Jinger and Felicity, RFP’s got nothing. He’s not witty, insightful, interesting, creative, insanely fit, sexy (In California, there are guys infinitely hotter than he is filling the Slurpee machines), or knowledgeable about anything mainstream, like DIY. He dresses nicely but it’s nothing groundbreaking. Youtube sermons on masturbation don’t have a mass appeal

 I guess there may be a spot for him in the Country Club Christians but I don’t think he’s got that kind of money, either. That crowd can assess net worth to the dime.

Very few ever became famous merely because they desperately wanted to be famous. Well, there’s always politics, but he picked the wrong state for that and I don’t think he wants to work that hard.

Dunno. I think he’s kinda screwed.

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BitterApple

BitterApple

7 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Brilliantly said. Without Jinger and Felicity, RFP’s got nothing. He’s not witty, insightful, interesting, creative, insanely fit, sexy (In California, there are guys infinitely hotter than he is filling the Slurpee machines), or knowledgeable about anything mainstream, like DIY. He dresses nicely but it’s nothing groundbreaking. Youtube sermons on masturbation don’t have a mass appeal

I think that's what annoys me about Jeremy. His inflated sense of self-importance is so undeserved. If it wasn't for Jinger, Jinger's family name and Jinger's TV fame, he'd still be in Laredo, doing baptisms in cattle troughs. I guess one could argue Jinger experienced a significant life upgrade thanks to him as well, but she doesn't come off like an arrogant try-hard. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
9 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I would eat eggs for dinner (a huge omelet would be great!) but my husband hates them. 

Yep. I know the feeling!

If it's been a tiring day, I've found that doing Jingle's recipe but adding some canned clams or oysters, smoked salmon or fake crab to the eggs can sometimes win the egg-despiser over. (Only if the egg-despiser has low resistance that day, though...) 

I assume Jingle serves this to Jer, and if he goes along with it, then good for him, I say. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

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(edited)
21 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Brilliantly said. Without Jinger and Felicity, RFP’s got nothing. He’s not witty, insightful, interesting, creative, insanely fit, sexy (In California, there are guys infinitely hotter than he is filling the Slurpee machines), or knowledgeable about anything mainstream, like DIY. He dresses nicely but it’s nothing groundbreaking. Youtube sermons on masturbation don’t have a mass appeal

Yes, this nails it. I've cued up videos of Jer's sermons, but couldn't stand to watch for more than a minute. As has been mentioned upthread, he doesn't even have a good speaking voice. If he intends to keep preaching he is in DIRE immediate need of coaching on posture, voice pitch, intonation, timing, projection - the whole package. I'm too lazy to look up his seminary's curriculum. If it includes any such training, Jer needs to jump on ALL offered courses/sessions, ASAP. And practice his pretentious pants off.

@BitterApple posted while I was writing this, and I agree with that post too. 

The dude is, well, kinda mediocre especially in relation to what appear to be his ambitions.

He brings to mind that description attributed to Winston Churchill: "a modest little person with much to be modest about." But of course in Jeremy's case, he's "a very pretentious little person with very little to be pretentious about."

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libgirl2

libgirl2

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

Yep. I know the feeling!

If it's been a tiring day, I've found that doing Jingle's recipe but adding some canned clams or oysters, smoked salmon or fake crab to the eggs can sometimes win the egg-despiser over. (Only if the egg-despiser has low resistance that day, though...) 

I assume Jingle serves this to Jer, and if he goes along with it, then good for him, I say. 

My husband is a life long egg despiser! I have tried. 

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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

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13 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

...he'd still be in Laredo, doing baptisms in cattle troughs. 

This made me laugh for a very, very long time...the visuals are slaying me. 

“Here, somebody hold my fountain pen and my bespoke gold stamped leather Bible. Don’t DROP them! That’s mud, okay? Where was I...do you accept Christ as your personal SHIT don’t slop that stuff on my Gucci knockoffs! Cows drink out of this!!! Where was I...do you think these socks work with this sweater? Oh, sorry, forgot, you need to breathe, my bad...”

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DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I think that's what annoys me about Jeremy. His inflated sense of self-importance is so undeserved. If it wasn't for Jinger, Jinger's family name and Jinger's TV fame, he'd still be in Laredo, doing baptisms in cattle troughs. I guess one could argue Jinger experienced a significant life upgrade thanks to him as well, but she doesn't come off like an arrogant try-hard. 

And I also have a feeling that Jeremy, although he loves Jinger, looks down on the Duggars and their ilk. The Duggars and their hero derp and flip flops are decidedly not the country club types!

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JoanArc

JoanArc

(edited)
8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

It's early days, of course. But "Duggar" still has a lot of horsepower as a "celebrity" draw. And I wonder where sufficient horsepower in the new direction is going to come from. I don't see it at this point. I doubt Jer's attracting a whole lot of followers by his own efforts. (Although it's perfectly possible he's attracting them in droves, I guess.

In the music world, this is known as a sophomore slump, would you produce a hit record on the first try, but then have difficulty producing anything else.  The second album is always the one everybody hates. 

3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

And I also have a feeling that Jeremy, although he loves Jinger, looks down on the Duggars and their ilk. The Duggars and their hero derp and flip flops are decidedly not the country club types!

 To complement Jeremy, I will say it was marvelous how he conned con man Jim Bob out of a daughter with very little effort,  Then tossed aside  the rest of the Duggars the instant they became unprofitable, which was basically 10 seconds after the wedding. 

8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Not just money. Big shots.

Eloquent as always. It’s interesting seeing so many different families try so many different methods of gaining worldly power. Name one for the family that doesn’t really want it, and actively pursues it. There are many ways up the mountain.  The Duggers would be doing it in flip-flops, while Jeremy rides on the back of a Sherpa. 

Edited by JoanArc
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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

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(edited)
13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know Kim K became famous because of a sex tape, her ass and her mother.

If J & J found some creative manager they might make as low level influencers.

True, but KK also had a passel of also-insanely-hot sisters (thus upping the sex fantasy material 1000-fold), a former Olympian for a stepfather and an extremely shrewd, well connected and apparently amoral mother. 

Sex sells to the masses. Don’t have sex, don’t masturbate, get married young and churn out babies doesn’t appeal to anything like that many. And grandmas and tweens aren’t a big money market. 

But hey, Jill’s shoveling out sex advice. Maybe a sex tape for Christians isn’t that farfetched.

(Oh dear God...)

Edited by Oldernowiser
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
37 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know Kim K became famous because of a sex tape, her ass and her mother.

If J & J found some creative manager they might make it as low level influencers.

When the sex tape comes out, my opinion will do a 180.

Ditto for the day Jer posts his new sermon, "Jesus loves you when you masturbate."

Either of those will be a game changer! 😈

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Meow25

Meow25

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19 hours ago, doodlebug said:

MacArthur, Jeremy's idol and the guy who runs the seminary Jer attends, has preached against prosperity gospel; so Jeremy is probably opposed to Osteen and that bunch, too.  However, MacArthur is worth an estimated $14 million, so he's not opposed to his own prosperity.  From what we've seen, Jeremy isn't either.  I guess they don't want their congregation to think that Jesus is going to make them wealthy because it might cut into their profits.

This is why I detest this kind of "faith".  As a Christian who believes and follows the words of Jesus having 14 million dollars is not ok.  It just isn't.  I'm a mainline Methodist and if God blesses abundantly, you GIVE abundantly.  Let's say you keep 1M of the 14M...how many people could you feed?  

The Duggars don't even know how far deep they're into the prosperity gospel...it's all about GETTING God's blessings whether it be in the form of ankle biters, or beautiful homes, or TV time....they think they GET because God LOVES them.  God CLEARLY states the opposite.  The need to re-read the BEattitudes.  UGH.  

I love Jimmy Carter and Fred Rodgers.  They are the modern American icons of our faith, IMO

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

1 hour ago, Meow25 said:

This is why I detest this kind of "faith".  As a Christian who believes and follows the words of Jesus having 14 million dollars is not ok.  It just isn't.  I'm a mainline Methodist and if God blesses abundantly, you GIVE abundantly.  Let's say you keep 1M of the 14M...how many people could you feed?  

The Duggars don't even know how far deep they're into the prosperity gospel...it's all about GETTING God's blessings whether it be in the form of ankle biters, or beautiful homes, or TV time....they think they GET because God LOVES them.  God CLEARLY states the opposite.  The need to re-read the BEattitudes.  UGH.  

I love Jimmy Carter and Fred Rodgers.  They are the modern American icons of our faith, IMO

I'm not even religious, and everything you said here makes sense to me. There's only so much money anyone could ever need, and once you get into the millions, any way you slice it more millions just seem as though they could be spread around to those who need some help.

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Lisa418722

Lisa418722

I've heard that Rick Warren “reverse tithes”—gives 90% of his income to his church.  I know he also earns a fortune on his books, but at least he is walking the walk.   I don't see Jeremy ever being willing to give up the pocket squares or the meals to be willing to give up 90% of his income even if he earned $14M a year. 

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Zella

Zella

(edited)
9 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

This made me laugh for a very, very long time...the visuals are slaying me. 

“Here, somebody hold my fountain pen and my bespoke gold stamped leather Bible. Don’t DROP them! That’s mud, okay? Where was I...do you accept Christ as your personal SHIT don’t slop that stuff on my Gucci knockoffs! Cows drink out of this!!! Where was I...do you think these socks work with this sweater? Oh, sorry, forgot, you need to breathe, my bad...”

You win the internet today, @Oldernowiser! I choked laughing at this! 😂

Edited by Zella
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Spencer Hastings

Spencer Hastings

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4 minutes ago, Dirndl said:

They really can't win. First everyone wanted them to comment on Jake and now that they did they aren't believed. I see no reason why they wouldn't have put Jake with a good family and I don't think they owe us the exact reason for their decision.

I’m not sure there’s much they could have said to appease everyone without video evidence and a sworn statement from the family backing up their claims.  Sometimes allergy sufferers try things that they shouldn’t and then realize they need to get rid of said allergen because the impact was more severe than they thought it would be. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt because I’m guilty of this a hundred times over. 

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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

I really, really hope they successfully rehomed Jake. If they did, good for them. Zero snark.

But it's so RFP to make himself into the long-suffered hero, bravely dealing with his allergies. AND he doesn’t say anything about how they miss him. And it’s so Duggaresque to embellish just a tad too much.

I’m a pet fanatic (at one point I had six cats and five dogs, all adored and spoiled) and over the decades I’ve had to make terribly hard decisions about what was best for them over and over. I get that.

But it seems pretty out of sight, out of mind here for a cat Jer was calling the fourth family member. That’s all.

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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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