S05.E21: Last Rites

[YaddaYadda]

I still don't even get how a TLK worked between Hades and Zelena. 

There were some really good moments in this episode though. I really enjoyed the entire Arthur/Hook team up, and the comments from the peanut gallery. Cruella and the Blind Witch will be missed. That's sass done right, or played right, whichever.

David and Emma scenes were really good, and the Snow/Emma scenes were good as well, but I'd stab someone for something more in depth between those two. 

Merida wasn't annoying. They seem to have really toned her down, and we have confirmation that everyone has been gone for weeks.

About Robin. Robin was never developed, but they gave him a moment where he was allowed to disagree with Regina, and almost tell her off, which was refreshing. I wish they had found a way to tie up what happened to him in 5x02 to his death tonight. But Robin tonight is a character that I might have been down with if they had written him like that, and made him more relevant. 

The way they killed him off, with zero chance of coming back, and Hades' dialogue about how he would be "nothing" basically summed up what Robin was on the show. 

I think I might splurge, and send a baby name book to the writing staff suggesting names that are NOT Baelfire, considering that every child in town has been named after someone who died. At least Pistachio was named after her father, and not the ex-boyfriend who might knock her up in the future, and take off on her while she's cooling her jets in jail.

About Hades, what a dumbass. I hate it when supposedly badass villains go out like that. 

Also, Dumbledore dressed as a God was weird. And that did not look like King's Crossing. But you're damn right, Killian went back where he belonged because not only did he help defeat Hades, but he sort of cleaned up your mess a bit.

4 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

I covet Regina's coat. 

Mackage in case you're interested. I don't think you'll find it on their website now, but since it's one of their classics, you might be able to find it again when fall/winter collections roll around.

[bmoore4026]

Well, we had nice Arthur/Hook ho-yay for a couple of minutes.  I felt more chemistry between them than I ever did between Hook and Emma.

Just about everyone brought their A-game acting wise, I thought.  I actually felt like crying when Robin Hood got hit by the non-existence energy (poor little Roland's got no one now) and Regina was devastated and Zelena realized Hades never really loved her and she was in tears and after Hades got dusted (I smiled so much when that happened.  So long, you dull ass shithead, dragging down the ratings), the two half-sisters were crying and holding each other.  And then there was Emma's monologue in front of Killian's grave, which was moving but made moot when he got resurrected.  Regina's going to be so happy by this turn.

Next episode: Henry fucks shit up for everybody....again.

[tennisgurl]

Well...that happened.

There was good, there was bad, and there was meh. I really liked Hook and Arthur (probably more than I ever liked Arthur, as a fake good guy or as a villain), and I am thrilled to see Hook and Emma reunited. And I like how they ended up getting Hook out of the afterlife. His whole issue with Emma last story arc was his anger at having his agency taken away, and now he got to earn his way out of the afterlife, instead of being rescued. He has had a great arc, by far the most believable of all the Villain turned Heroes of the show. 

Hades turned out to be a pretty big anti climax. The Greek mythology stuff was all kind of just there, as set dressing instead of actually using anything for real At least they stopped with that awful Hades flaming hair effect. 

Poor Robin. He finally got to have some personality, and then he pointlessly died. He died as he lived...for Regina and her story. And her reaction was hardly one for the grieving ages. Their story was just so poorly done and unbelievable, and it turned an iconic character like Robin Hood into a shallow love interest. Poor Sean. I think he did well with what he had, but unfortunately what he had was very little, especially with this arc. 

[ParadoxLost]

34 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I agree with this. I didn't like Robin as a character, but I hated to watch the same thing happen to Regina again. I admit I cried quite a bit during that whole scene, especially when she and Zelena were holding on to each other after it was over. Regina didn't really cry this whole episode. I'm expecting the dam to break next episode, and I'm guessing it'll come out as anger.

I think its not going to go over well that Hook (and therefore Emma) was rewarded for defeating Hades and others weren't.  Its not going to matter that Robin Hood was erased.  It is really looking like they are going to go with Regina grieving over losing her happy ending versus Robin.  That's going to be the only way to explain it when Regina is more angry at Emma over Robin's death than Zelena.  And I'm only extrapolating from all the sisterly scenes post death.  I feel bad for Outlaw Queen fans.

I think the directing was pretty terrible in Robin's death scenes.  If they were going to take the stoic route with Regina, they should have had Zelena tone it down because she had her grief turned up to eleven and it didn't come across as grief for Regina or Robin. 

[irisheyes]

Thoughts on the episode:

Loved Hades's ending. Best way to kill a villain ever. 

Hook and Emma's reunion was so adorable. 

I was completely unspoiled, so Robin's death surprised me. I half expected it to be Snow White, since I could see the actress wanting to leave. 

I know I'm in the minority, but I love when Rumple gets to be the Big Bad. Forget all this trying to be a good person on the inside, Rumple. Embrace the evil that is you. Everything is more enjoyable. 

[Shanna Marie]

If they were going to kill Robin off and wanted to make it matter, then maybe they should have let Regina and Robin spend more than 30 seconds together this arc. As it is, it's too easy to imagine that she could forget he was even around before. They did give the one big "I choose you" scene, which superimposed the "Marked for Death" target on his back. But yeah, you kind of have to show them together over time for me to feel a huge sense of loss. I wasn't a fan of the relationship because it was too much pixie-dust soulmates and not enough actual interaction -- I still don't have a sense of how a conversation between them might have gone or what they might have done together other than cryptsex -- but I still feel kind of ripped off after we spent all of season four with everyone worried about Regina's happy ending when his wife came back to town and then when he left. It's also a shame that they've already had a character named Robin Hood who's an outlaw who's good with a bow, was married to Maid Marian and who was friends with Little John because it would have been really cool if they'd actually done something with the Robin Hood legend and now they can't (this isn't helped by the fact that my local PBS station had a Miranda marathon today, with Robin 1.0 playing her crush/love interest).

I will do a tiny dance of gloating that I called Hook walking into the glow as though he was moving on and finding himself back in Storybrooke. I'm guessing he was sent directly to Emma, which is why he showed up at the cemetery. If she'd been in Granny's, that's where he'd have gone because Zeus sent him where he belonged, which is with her. I love how baffled he seemed by it.

I didn't know I needed Hook and Arthur to team up on a quest, but I'm glad I got it, though I still think actor Liam was wasted in not being cast as character Liam because he looks far more like Hook's brother than Hook's brother did. It was nice that Hook went out of his way to save the man who was responsible for his death. I guess he really has moved beyond the need for revenge.

[Kktjones]

I actually really loved the episode - much more than I thought I would. The quest in the Underworld was great - I love that they redeemed Arthur and that Hook found a way to help Emma from down there. 

Of course the Emma/Hook reunion was my absolute favorite - they were so happy and cute! My one complaint is why didn't the switch the order of the scenes to have Emma walk over to Hook's grave after the funeral and have him appear when she's there (maybe as she turns her back to walk away or something). It would just make so much more sense and then people couldn't complain that it was in bad taste having them make out 10 feet from Robin's coffin (which I have to kind of agree with).

[Rumsy4]

34 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

I've never been particularly fond of Robin Hood, but I am sad to see him go. Did he even get to see Roland before he died? My heart hurts for the adorable hobbit-child.

I saw some filming spoilers of Robin reuniting with Roland an hugging him. Too bad they cut it.

22 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

Goodbye, Greg German and your subpar, Underworld-caliber acting. Robbie Kay you were not.

Agree. His end was underwhelming too.

5 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

I know I'm in the minority, but I love when Rumple gets to be the Big Bad. Forget all this trying to be a good person on the inside, Rumple. Embrace the evil that is you. Everything is more enjoyable. 

I definitely like Rumple is better as an unapologetic villain. None of this woobie Rumbelle crap.

4 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It's also a shame that they've already had a character named Robin Hood who's an outlaw who's good with a bow, was married to Maid Marian and who was friends with Little John because it would have been really cool if they'd actually done something with the Robin Hood legend and now they can't.

I loved the idea someone had that Robin 2.0 would turn out to be the real Robin Hood. Future fic...

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I think its not going to go over well that Hook (and therefore Emma) was rewarded for defeating Hades and others weren't.  Its not going to matter that Robin Hood was erased.  It is really looking like they are going to go with Regina grieving over losing her happy ending versus Robin.  That's going to be the only way to explain it when Regina is more angry at Emma over Robin's death than Zelena.  And I'm only extrapolating from all the sisterly scenes post death.  I feel bad for Outlaw Queen fans.

I think the directing was pretty terrible in Robin's death scenes.  If they were going to take the stoic route with Regina, they should have had Zelena tone it down because she had her grief turned up to eleven and it didn't come across as grief for Regina or Robin. 

I think it makes sense that Regina wouldn't blame Zelena because she's been trying to help Zelena redeem herself this whole arc, and they just did have that therapy session with Cora. I can imagine her emotions will be directed at Emma, if anyone, because Emma is the one who got them involved with Hades in the first place. Plus, it's probably easier for her not to blame Zelena since Zelena also lost her True Love (to save Regina's life), while Emma gets hers back out of the blue and Regina has no way to save Robin since his soul was obliterated. Could she even see him in death after that?

I can buy Zelena and Regina grieving differently here. Regina's been through it before. To me, she seemed in complete shock throughout this episode, so I don't think everything's fully registered yet.

[profdanglais]

The only thing I didn't like about this episode is the abrupt way it ended. Next week, I want to see Hook and Emma chilling together and having a chat about everything that's happened to them, before the next inevitable crisis sets in. Is that too much to ask? 

Killian is a straight up hero now, it would be nice if he could stop hating himself. 

Dead Arthur is the best Arthur. I hope he hooks up with Cruella. They can have a love/hate power struggle in Underbrooke. That would be awesome to watch. 

Headcanon: Guinevere come suddenly un-dusted, finds a way back to Camelot, and lives happily ever after with Lancelot, making many ridiculously beautiful babies. Arthur helps the lost souls move on, much to Cruella's dismay. CS go straight back to their house, lock the door, and don't come out for a week. Zelena and Regina bond over their terrible taste in men. 

[Mathius]

4 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Agree. His end was underwhelming too.

Disagree.  The whispering could get annoying, but I thought Greg sold Hades pretty damn well throughout the arc, and to be ended by Zelena, the woman he obsessed over and manipulated, with his own coveted super-weapon to boot, is the most fitting end for him.

[MaiLuna]

Really good episode. Very packed, but never a dull moment. 

The Arthur/Hook team-up and Arthur staying in the Underworld to help things was a very nice surprise. 

For once they gave Robin an attitude. It would've been nice to see Regina and Robin interact the way the did this episode, I think they actually had a lot of potential but it was ruined with Robin 2.0 and other soap-opera storylines. How depressing that he won't even be able to go to the afterlife. 

I'm glad they took a moment for Emma to grieve and some moments of her parents consoling her, but since Hook came back I would've liked to see more of Regina's reaction to Robin's death. I guess and hope that'll be next week. 

Emma kissing Hook all over his face was so darn cute. 

I'm glad Hades' whispering voice is gone! I could've done with a Zeus/Hades flashback but this episode was very packed as it was and it was really good nonetheless. 

It was a bit funny how they kept the baby unnamed all this time, just waiting for Robin to die. And even though now Zelena is much better, how squicky that she gets to raise the baby while the raped person dies and leaves his 2 children. 

[Rumsy4]

6 minutes ago, Mathius said:

Disagree.  The whispering could get annoying, but I thought Greg sold Hades pretty damn well throughout the arc, and to be ended by Zelena, the woman he obsessed over and manipulated, with his own coveted super-weapon to boot, is the most fitting end for him.

We can't really disagree over opinions, can we? ;-) I actually didn't mind the whispering. He just turned out too much of a cardboard cut-out villain for me to find him interesting. I still don't buy his TLK with Zelena.

[Jul 68]

I suspect this episode may serve as a back door pilot for another spin-off show.  I wonder what they'll call it?

• Underbrooke
• Once Under a Time
• Once After Time
• Life in Pergatory
• The In Betweeners
• Moving On
• Redemption
• Snark City
• The Caulfield/Garrigan/Smurfit Hour fe: Characters Recently Killed in Storybrooke.
• Not Lost
• Last Chance

Edited May 9, 2016 by Jul 68

[Dianthus]

I have zero f*cks to give for St. Woegina's pain, given how much pain she's caused others. It only bothers me because everything else is more or less sacrificed on that alter. As for blaming Emma for Robin's death, I say 'Bugger That!' Emma told Regina she should leave the Underworld fairly early on. Hell, she risked going full on Dark One to save Robin in Camelot. A & E are seemingly incapable of giving due consideration to any of their other characters. You'd think I'd be used to it by now, but it still bugs.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Dianthus
9?

[truelovekiss]

2 hours ago, Mockingbird said:

Is every baby in Storybrooke named after a dude that just died? 

You know, I never really believe this show when they kill someone off because very often *magic* happens and like 6 weeks of plot lines become irrelevant and they live. But once they named the baby Robin, I knew this one is for real. Robin was the most vanilla character ever (which is an insult to vanilla flavored things, which are generally tasty) but he made my girl Regina happy, and they really emphasized that he was her true love, love of her life, etc. Then at his funeral, of course Princess Emma gets her true love to come back to life.

[Jul 68]

I thought of another title, but it won't let me edit again.

• Hotel California

 

[Rumsy4]

1 minute ago, truelovekiss said:

Then at his funeral, of course Princess Emma gets her true love to come back to life.

Tbf, Emma was fighting like hell (heh) to get Hook back all season, while Robin and Regina barely shared scenes. 

I do think it is a shame Robin and Regina never even got to say "I love you" to each other. But it might have made it worse if that had happened this episode.

[ParadoxLost]

19 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I can buy Zelena and Regina grieving differently here. Regina's been through it before. To me, she seemed in complete shock throughout this episode, so I don't think everything's fully registered yet.

I watched that scene again and I saw two things.  First, Regina did a very subtle smirk when Hades died.  Second, at then end of those scenes when she was hugging Zelena, she blinked her eyes and then pulled a face that was total Evil Queen. 

[Arkay]

I really disliked the entire underworld arc. I thought the "gods" were so underwhelming, for one thing. Some sweet young thing in a toga (looked more Roman than Greek) is Zeus? Hades waits for millennia for an ice crystal that looks like a plastic Christmas icicle decoration from the 99 cent store? And then this trinket is the supremely powerful weapon that can kill an immortal? Come on, props department, you can create a more worthy weapon.

i love Hook and will handwave anything that keeps him on my TV. Everything else, blah. I do like when Rumple is a bad boy, so there's that. 

Sigh, I miss the old fairytale days. 

[Rosiejuliemom]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

Also, Dumbledore dressed as a God was weird. And that did not look like King's Crossing. But you're damn right, Killian went back where he belonged because not only did he help defeat Hades, but he sort of cleaned up your mess a bit.

Thank you! I kept thinking of that scene the entire time...even caught myself trying to spot Voldefetus. Glad Disney doesn't have the rights to Harry Potter. This show can stay far far away from that franchise.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Rosiejuliemom

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I watched that scene again and I saw two things.  First, Regina did a very subtle smirk when Hades died.  Second, at then end of those scenes when she was hugging Zelena, she blinked her eyes and then pulled a face that was total Evil Queen. 

I saw the first one, too. Regina looking up at Hades from Robin's body totally reminded me of her reaction to Rumpel after Cora's death in "The Miller's Daughter." You know, that intense "I want to slit your throat and drink your blood" expression.

[KAOS Agent]

I really enjoyed the episode and realized that the lack of flashbacks was the reason. Dear writers, Just stop with the flashbacks. They're dull and mean nothing. 

Some notes:

- Why was Merida there? Go away!

- The Hook/Arthur team up was super fun. Poor Arthur was screwed over by Merlin and went psycho, but I can handle him trying to clean up the Underworld in atonement. Also, Cruella needs a shiny new toy now that Jimmy's gone and she looked so excited to have found one.

- Oh Rumpel. Still a dick.

- Oh Moe. Also a dick.

-  I was getting a little annoyed at everyone telling Emma how to feel. I understand that they were worried and trying to help, but telling someone that they aren't grieving correctly is not okay. 

- Bye Robin. We hardly knew you. Sorry you had to die for Regina's karmic payback or whatever it was the writers called it.

- I have little to say about Regina, Zelena or Hades because I found the whole thing to be stupid. Zelena is an idiot, Hades just annoyed the hell out of me (why would you even want to rule Storybrooke?), and Regina rejected the magical back up that Emma could have provided. Incidentally, if they'd just waited for Captain Swan's multi-realm team up, they could have worked out a plan and Robin wouldn't have died. Nice going, people who constantly bitch at Emma about how they need to work together.

Edited May 9, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[truelovekiss]

13 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Tbf, Emma was fighting like hell (heh) to get Hook back all season, while Robin and Regina barely shared scenes. 

I do think it is a shame Robin and Regina never even got to say "I love you" to each other. But it might have made it worse if that had happened this episode.

That is true. She did fight for love, and didn't give up on Hook. Most of the Robin and Regina storyline centered around baby Pistachio, Zelena, etc. 

Also, remember when Henry used to have lines and be a relevant character?

[snarkastic]

Rewatching, I think the writers were trying to parallel Regina/Robin's first 'adventure': underground tunnel to a location shielded by Zelena. Kind of a bookend thing. Or am I giving the writers too much credit.

[MadyGirl1987]

2 hours ago, Arnella said:

Roland is now going to be raised by the Evil Queen...  what is the phone number for magical CPS??

Is he? I was thinking merry men. He was with them at the funeral.

I thought this was a great episode. Loved Hook and Emma being reunited. At least it wasn't when everyone else was there. That would be too much for Regina. You loose your love and someone else's comes back at the service... Nobody deserves that...

Loved Hook and Arthur. Am I the only one who forgot Arthur was still in Storybrooke? I was surprised when he showed up. Also; why did Hades kill him? I thought it was part of his plan, but it wasn't in any way I saw.

Also thought Charming and Snow where good in how they were supporting Emma.

[Shanna Marie]

I know that asking for sane reasoning from some characters is asking too much, but if there's blame being cast at Emma for Robin's death, then there's a whole chain of blame that could go on forever. Hades is responsible for killing him. Zelena is responsible for being played and not listening to the others. Regina and Robin are responsible for going off on their own and not going in with an actual plan. Regina is responsible for pushing Zelena toward Hades and shutting down Robin's objections and Hook's misgivings. Rumple is responsible for helping Hades take the baby. Emma is responsible for going to the Underworld, which ultimately led to Hades being able to come to Storybrooke. Rumple is responsible again for stealing the Dark One power from Hook's sacrifice, which led to Emma wanting to get Hook back. Hook is responsible for going full-on dark and bringing back the Dark Ones so that it took his death to defeat them. Arthur is responsible for mortally wounding Hook with Excalibur. Merlin is responsible for not giving anything resembling a clear warning. Zelena is responsible for teaming up with Arthur so that Hook was in a situation to be wounded. Rumple is responsible again for coming back to town with his charcoal heart. Regina is responsible for letting the Queens of Darkness in town, which allowed Rumple to come to town. If you keep tracking blame back from the person who actually did the deed, it never ends.

However, Hook was not brought back to life for Emma's sake. It wasn't a reward for Emma. It was a reward for Hook for continuing to fight against Hades even when he thought all hope was lost for himself, and I like to think that it was also something of a reward for helping and working with the man who struck the blow that killed him rather than seeking revenge. The old Hook would have gone after Arthur in revenge rather than working with him, and definitely wouldn't have stopped his quest to save him.

[ParadoxLost]

1 minute ago, KAOS Agent said:

- I have little to say about Regina, Zelena or Hades because I found the whole thing to be stupid. Zelena is an idiot. Hades just annoyed the hell out of me. And Regina rejected the magical back up that Emma could have provided. Incidentally, if they'd just waited for Captain Swan's multi-realm team up, they could have worked out a plan and Robin wouldn't have died. Nice going, people who constantly bitch at Emma about how they need to work together.

It was actually kind of amusing that they were telling Emma she couldn't go along and help because she was grieving and not in a good headspace.  And then they put Robin, whose daughter was kidnapped, on the mission and left Charming behind to go do research; and when Robin admitted he had no plan, they just kept going.

So much of this felt contrived to get rid of a character that wasn't working in a way that was irrevocable, that I didn't really connect with it.

And they clearly don't want Emma to really be responsible for this even thought they are making noise like Emma blames herself and Regina might blame her too.  Because this episode would have been a better send off for Robin, had Hades killed Robin in front of Regina/Zelena and then Robin/Hook had the UW adventure, and Emma/Regina confronted Hades with Hook's/Robin's intel, and Hook had to come back and explain that Robin had made a soul destroying sacrifice to send the info to defeat Hades and save them all.

[shoregirl]

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

 

However, Hook was not brought back to life for Emma's sake. It wasn't a reward for Emma. It was a reward for Hook for continuing to fight against Hades even when he thought all hope was lost for himself, and I like to think that it was also something of a reward for helping and working with the man who struck the blow that killed him rather than seeking revenge. The old Hook would have gone after Arthur in revenge rather than working with him, and definitely wouldn't have stopped his quest to save him.

I want to quote this whole thing because it brilliant. In particular this part and especially the part about seeking revenge. I think Season 2 Hook would've let Arthur be pulled into the river. He probably would have let Arthur touch the water and not warned him about it. Hook was rewarded because even though he thought there was no hope for hI'm he still was fighting to help Emma and everyone else.

[scenicbyway]

I think this episode might have been Jmo's best acting of the series.  Emma's grief over losing Killian for good was palpable.  I loved that not only did Hook not give up on helping her, he also wasn't afraid to move on when the light appeared.  Emma's pain felt real and I think a lot of people look for signs when they lose a loved one and that was neat to see it translated through the book pages.  I also loved that she had their story bookmarked.  Their reunion in the cemetery felt real and earned, but I have to say, if that's "it" after what they've been put through this season, I'll be disappointed.

As for Robin's death, that they've made sure he can never come back from, even more so than Neal...there was a scene shot that had Robin returning from the Underworld and greeting Roland in the forest.  I wonder if it was cut for time or too much emotion when we see Roland at the funeral, or maybe it was just the kid and Sean goofing on set, since there were reports Sesn was also their for Robin's funeral.  The kid is pretty young to film a scene like that and it might've helped to see that Sean was ok.

Regina seemed fairly stoic over Robin's death.  It'll be interesting to see her reaction next week when we've seen that Emma basically couldn't function without Hook.  Robin's death was sudden and pointless and there's been a growing distance between he and Regina since the Camelot ball when he died the first time so his death seemed less traumatic even though it was  worse.

Anyone else wonder why Hades turned to dust but Robin's body was still there?

Poor Belle, maybe her baby will wake her?

[Rumsy4]

27 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

-  I was getting a little annoyed at everyone telling Emma how to feel. I understand that they were worried and trying to help, but telling someone that they aren't grieving correctly is not okay. 

Yes. It was so stupid. But at least, Charming and Snow were trying to be there for Emma!

15 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I like to think that it was also something of a reward for helping and working with the man who struck the blow that killed him rather than seeking revenge. The old Hook would have gone after Arthur in revenge rather than working with him, and definitely wouldn't have stopped his quest to save him.

I really loved this part! Great character development. 

13 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

And then they put Robin, whose daughter was kidnapped, on the mission and left Charming behind to go do research; and when Robin admitted he had no plan, they just kept going.

These people are all TSTL. I really don't think Baby Pistachio was in any immediate danger from Hades. They should have come up with a better plan to take down Hades than just barge in without second thought.

[MedievalGirl]

Both King Arthur and Robin Hood were killed off in the same episode. What do you have against British folk tales show?

I loved the whole bit with Emma and the storybook. The look on her face with the Snow Drifts illustration and the surprize with the flipping pages. <3

It seemed a stretch that the pages really lead to Hades death. Zelena knew the crystal's power. Did she really gain anything from talking with Emma and seeing the text?

Poor Roland. OTOH he was spending lots of time with Little John anyway.  

[KingOfHearts]

50 minutes ago, snarkastic said:

Rewatching, I think the writers were trying to parallel Regina/Robin's first 'adventure': underground tunnel to a location shielded by Zelena. Kind of a bookend thing. Or am I giving the writers too much credit.

A&E implied it in a spoiler interview prior to the episode airing.

Everyone seemed so emotionless at Robin's funeral. Poor Roland just sort of stood there with very little expression. He's been completely orphaned. It's truly sad that a few months ago, he, Regina and Robin were going out for ice cream. Now Regina, the closest thing he had to a mother, probably won't do anything for him. He'll be left to be raised by the Merry Men. It's dumb that the writers gave Robin children, only to kill him and lay them off to the wayside. I probably wouldn't feel so bad about Laverne and Shirley if they were looking after both children, not just Pistachio.

Anyone remember Page 23? Yeah, that's totally pointless now. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[profdanglais]

29 minutes ago, shoregirl said:

Hook was rewarded because even though he thought there was no hope for hI'm he still was fighting to help Emma and everyone else.

This is why I think he now officially counts as a full-fledged, card-carrying, no-asterisk, capital H Hero. His fierce determination to keep his promise to Emma, even more than saving Arthur from the lost souls, is what clinched that for me. It's what Charming would've done, and he's basically Ultimate Hero on this show. If I weren't so fond of CS and Hook as a character, I would have been happy for this to be the end of his story. He's completed his arc. I guess he just gets to start a new one now. It does make you wonder, though: He's lived so long and now he's even died. Isn't he tired? 

After thinking about this episode for a bit, I have further thoughts: 1) I would really have preferred if this action had been spread over two episodes. We could have done with more HooKing in the Underworld, more of Snowing helping Emma cope, Zelena coming to her realisation about Hades more slowly and on her own. Just more of the good stuff. 

2) The CS reunion was way better than I thought it would be. Those BTS pics made it look like they had one quick snog then went all Sadface McGuilty over Robin's death. Emma leaping on Hook and smothering him with kisses feels somehow more authentic. I mean, it's basically what I do to my husband after not seeing him for a week, say nothing of him coming back from the dead. 

3) I know Zelena has done terrible things, but I have really come to sympathise with her, and like her much better when she's not in Wicked Witch mode. I want her to sort herself out so she can have nice things I the future. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by profdanglais
More thoughts

[OnceUponAJen]

Please oh please can the characters just get 10 minutes or so to breathe before Crisis Leading to S6A? Nope? Oh well..... Beware the celebration at Granny's y'all.  Have you learned nothing?

I loved Arthur/Hook's pair-up as well.  Not only did Hook work with him,  he was giving Arthur a chance to do something noble so that he wouldn't go to the worse place. So proud of Hook. He was going to move on just like he promised Emma.

Robin Hood as a character just wasn't given a chance.  I think his pairing with the Evil Queen could have been interesting if they'd delved into his motivations a little further. You would naturally expect his character to have some sort of crisis of conscience over that association.

Full steam ahead to the finale!

[Mathius]

1 hour ago, truelovekiss said:

Also, remember when Henry used to have lines and be a relevant character?

Oh, don't worry.  Apparently Henry's coming back with a vengeance next week.

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I know that asking for sane reasoning from some characters is asking too much, but if there's blame being cast at Emma for Robin's death, then there's a whole chain of blame that could go on forever. Hades is responsible for killing him. Zelena is responsible for being played and not listening to the others. Regina and Robin are responsible for going off on their own and not going in with an actual plan. Regina is responsible for pushing Zelena toward Hades and shutting down Robin's objections and Hook's misgivings. Rumple is responsible for helping Hades take the baby. Emma is responsible for going to the Underworld, which ultimately led to Hades being able to come to Storybrooke. Rumple is responsible again for stealing the Dark One power from Hook's sacrifice, which led to Emma wanting to get Hook back. Hook is responsible for going full-on dark and bringing back the Dark Ones so that it took his death to defeat them. Arthur is responsible for mortally wounding Hook with Excalibur. Merlin is responsible for not giving anything resembling a clear warning. Zelena is responsible for teaming up with Arthur so that Hook was in a situation to be wounded. Rumple is responsible again for coming back to town with his charcoal heart. Regina is responsible for letting the Queens of Darkness in town, which allowed Rumple to come to town. If you keep tracking blame back from the person who actually did the deed, it never ends.

Agreed.  But try telling that to the herd of anti-Emma people who are screaming that she's responsible right now.

 

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Yes. It was so stupid. But at least, Charming and Snow were trying to be there for Emma!

Yeah, it's a helluva lot better than how they've been with her in previous arcs.  I love Snow putting her foot down and acting like a real mom toward Emma (it was basically "you will help us research and you will do it now, young lady!"), she really has improved since dropping the Mary Margaret name.  I can only hope and pray that it sticks in S6 after Regina inevitably becomes the Evil Queen again.

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Anyone else wonder why Hades turned to dust but Robin's body was still there?

Hades is a god, Robin Hood isn't.  Robin's soul disintegrated, whereas Hades - essentially soul made physical - disintegrated altogether.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

Got to wonder though how much Arthur really loved Guinevere, and if his decent into madness didn't negate whatever he felt for her early on, because he didn't mention her a single time after he died, and he seemed to be taken aback by the faith Killian placed in Emma, and how much he trusted that she would not just find the pages of the book, but do exactly what she was supposed to do.

[Shanna Marie]

13 minutes ago, OnceUponAJen said:

So proud of Hook. He was going to move on just like he promised Emma.

I was a little worried when he started to walk and then glanced back at Zeus because I thought he was going to do some kind of bargaining and ask if he could come back to life instead. But he really did walk on, fully believing that he was going to "heaven" and okay with that, so he seemed surprised to find himself with Emma. That's what makes the reward rather cool, that he didn't ask for it. He'd made his peace and was moving on.

[Dianthus]

They'd have to be crazy(er) to let CO'D get away. Hook is, after all, the only one of these characters (so far at least) to have two Funko Pop versions on the market. I'd probably stop watching if not for Hook/CS/Emma. There's already far too much Regina for my taste, and other characters like Snowing mostly get 'the fuzzy end of the lolipop' while she gets the sweet end, which is completely bassackwards to me.

[truelovekiss]

So who gets Roland? Dad's girlfriend? Dad's baby mama? Is Roland even the kid's name? Whatever, they'll most likely forget he exists.

[KAOS Agent]

Roland's real dad has been Little John for quite a while now anyway. He'll stick with the Merry Men.

[Rumsy4]

42 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Anyone remember Page 23? Yeah, that's totally pointless now. 

Is that the one where Regina runs away from the Tavern after seeing Robin?

36 minutes ago, profdanglais said:

Emma leaping on Hook and smothering him with kisses feels somehow more authentic. 

It was so adorable!!

26 minutes ago, OnceUponAJen said:

Please oh please can the characters just get 10 minutes or so to breathe before Crisis Leading to S6A? Nope? Oh well..... Beware the celebration at Granny's y'all.  Have you learned nothing?

Hahaha. A meet-up at Granny's invariably ends like a celebration of the Valar in the Silmarillion. Elves get slaughtered, plants destroyed, the Devil escapes his prison, and the Silmarils get stolen.

[maryle]

I Just saw some of it. I will watch back tomorrow but loved it!

Loved the KillIan and Arthur quest!

Loved Zeus but wish we had more of him! I will always felt cheated by this take of the Greec myth. too much about Zelena!

And I like Zelena but I like her better has a side character.

Because all this character Rumple, Regina, Zelena are becoming too similar today they are good tomorrow Evil after tomorrow good again!

It is not a good redemption story or good gray character. it stay too superficial and always depend  of  the twist du jour.  

That's my problem with the final next week.   Again Rumple is being Evil and Regina back to EQ mode. At this stade  I want Rumple to stay Evil if it this the way the writer choose it. 

But the perpetual flip flop had to stop!

  Just seem the coward way for the writer to have both way( Rumple Evil scheme and Rumbelle happy) and that thruth for Regina too.

CS was so cute! All episode long

 The way they stay connected and fighting ( Emma looking at the book)

The reunion was so emotional superbe acting from Jen and Colin too. I totally bought the scene it seem almost real the way they both stumble and search for their world. And know in now how much they do improvise I can help but wonder..

I am happy Robin could talk from his vire but that was too little and rapidly forget. The funerailles was sad. But the dead scene was weird  and didnt make a big impact on me. 

[kili]

Hades has magic that can people with the snap of his fingers. He can be killed by only one thing - the Olympus Crystal. So, what does he do when he wants to kill people? He re-forges the one thing that can kill him. Dumbass. 

So, 5A ends with Emma killing her true love by stabbing him with powerful magical item and the Underworld arc ends with Zelena killing her true love by stabbing him with a powerful magical item. Am I supposed to be impressed with the parallelism or unimpressed with their lack of originality?

When Rumple came into Regina's office, I was hoping it was the maid with a dust buster.

Rumple is an epic jerk. "Remember when I beat you to a pulp? Well, I'm going to do it again unless you give your daughter to me." How to recognize you are in an abusive relationship.  And then he tries to help Hades stop everybody else. He's completely given up being good at all. And now he's even more powerful. Wonderful.

Arthur is making lemonade out of lemons. "Maybe this is the kingdom Merlin meant.". Forget it Arthur, Merlin was just mind****ing you. Ignore every cryptic word that idiot ever said because madness lies in them.  Arthur is so much better when he's just being himself and not trying to figure out Merlin's nonsense. And, no, I don't want him dating Cruella - that chick is a mess. They can be enemies that snark at each other.

Why were the Lost Souls helping Hades? They should have been clearing the decks to help Arthur/Hook defeat him. Hades is the reason they are there. 

So unfair that Robin gets obliterated. Couldn't he have at least got sent to the hall of columns and gone left instead of right? I don't have a problem with his own baby being named after him (and not the brother of the teenager he knocked up and then framed for his own crimes) and  since he was killed on a mission to save her (not killed himself while being a dumba$$ while trying to resurrect the greatest evil in the land )

I loved the book taking action. Go book! 

Head Canon: Zelena and Hades didn't have a TLK  - Hades just needed to get somebody to love him and give him a kiss to get his heart working (kind of like how The Beast just needed somebody to love him or Ariel just needed to get Eric to fall in love with her or The Frog Prince just needed a kiss from a Princess) because he obviously did not have True Love for her. The rainbow? Er...it was Memorex.

[Primetimer]

The Underworld arc nears its end. Will the dead stay buried? Can bromance bloom in Purgatory?

View the full article

[Camera One]

This episode was better, but I still wouldn't classify it as great.  There was a lot of built-in emotional content and plot movement, so that helped with momentum and feels.  The structure with two concurrent storylines, one above ground and one under, was much better than flashback, though I still feel a little g***** we didn't even get to see the Zeus/Hades backstory.  Hades is dead and his motivation felt weaker for lack of development.  Not a surprise, but the Writers clearly couldn't care less about Greek mythology.

Can the Gods do nothing?  Zeus and Pantheon of Gods were just at their edge of their secret compartment thrones on Mt. Olympus watching Hades and Arthur try to get the missing pages up to Emma?  

And since when did the missing pages actually contain important info?  Before, they implied it was just the dumb story of how Hades met Zelena.  So maybe Henry should have been trying a little harder writing Hades' full story?  Or any story about the Greek Gods would do, since all anyone needed to know was the Crystal killed Gods.  Or did Henry never even have the ability to write that story?   Oh never mind.  And Rumple knew all along, so what was the big deal.

We STILL can't get away from "making something whole again", can we?  I guess that will be the tagline on the Season 5 DVD.

I did like Arthur's adventure with Hook.  It's nice to see a successful quest for once.  I really loved the payoff for Guinevere and Lancelot.  I guess they were chopped liver.

As someone else said, what if that attacking lost soul was Milah or Aunt Em, and they exploded it with the flame?  It would have been nice to set the lost souls free, to bring this Underworld arc to proper closure.  Why leave things hanging for no reason.  It was so depressing to see that mute child eating at the Blind Witch's diner.

How did Emma know Hades killed Arthur?  "I just know."  Because the plot needed it to be so.

I liked Charming actually being allowed to talk to Emma.  And Snow got to stand beside her with an umbrella.  

Now I understand why the Merida actress was so angry to be cut from the 4A finale.  Such meaty material she was given.

Of course, Zelena becomes "good" and she becomes dumber than a pregnant Mary Margaret looking for a midwife.  Going from clever and mistrusting to hanging onto Hades' every word was a total 180.  

They made it seem like Belle's father began to accept Belle with Rumple.  And now, the father is acting like Season 2B-5A never happened.  Yes, I can see him hiding his disdain for Rumple, but give me a freak'in break.

I hate how every time the "heroes" have a problem, they have to go crawling to Rumple.  I hated that they had Emma approach that despicable backstabbing jerk.  Why would Rumple immediately know that Hades brought the crystal to Storybrooke?  He has a ninth sense about that too?  And now he's even more overpowered.  I don't find Rumple as a big bad fun at all... just incredibly frustrating.

Since when did Robin always do a job with an escape plan.  We've seen him multiple times go into situations without any sort of plan.  Though I think A&E just had Robin utter their own motto "Who needs a plan when you have blind luck on your side".  Basically every plot they've ever written.

I laughed when Zelena gave that pregnant pause after "I can think of only one name that is fitting."  I half expected her to say "Marian".  

I'm glad I heard that Robin would meet his demise, because I would have been too shocked and sad that he died, even though I'm not even a fan.  He was consistently horribly written and I literally could not see anywhere his character could go at this point, but they barely used him at all in 5B, and even in this episode, they had nothing for him.  At the beginning of that very long tunnel, he was angry Regina was defending Zelena, and then by the end of it, for no reason, suddenly, he went that maybe Regina was right and he should give Zelena a chance.  Huh?  But the whole "Robin won't get to go to the Underworld; he'll just cease to exist" was just really sad and a horrible fate for a good guy.  I know they needed to stress that Regina would NOT be able to go to the Underworld to save him, but they'll probably need to specify that for every character they kill off from here on out. 

The rain was a nice touch for Killian suddenly appearing.  But the reason he was back was half-assed.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Camera One

[InsertWordHere]

6 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I hate how every time the "heroes" have a problem, they have to go crawling to Rumple.  I hated that they had Emma approach that despicable backstabbing jerk. 

Hear, hear! If I want one thing from the finale, it's for the heroes to stop going to Rumple all the time. He has proven, time after time, that he should not be trusted. I'm still bummed that everyone still believes that Hades put Milah in the River. I wish Hades would have at least dropped that bomb as a parting gift. But wait, that would have required Hades to have a scene with Emma. Funny how Emma will get the blame and the guilt for Hades coming to Storybrooke when she didn't even see him once he got there. 

[retrograde]

I liked it. Random thoughts:

• I'm down with killing off Robin. The character was dead weight and I prefer the Evil Queen
• Chemistry was sizzling between Arthur and Hook. Cruella knows what's up.
• The Zeus plot point was really dumb, even by this show's standards. But if they were going to go there, could they not have hired some bearded shirtless beefcake?
• They really didn't even bother to hide Ginnifer Goodwin's pregnancy.

[SiobhanJW]

I thought it was a really good episode. I was happy they didn't have any flashbacks. Sometimes they aren't always needed. I feel like we are at the point where every dilemma & event doesn't have to have a parallel. Some can still have them, but its nice to just get an episode where its all about what is happening in the present. (Since I was such a LOST watcher, and A&E are former LOST writers, I keep expecting us to one day start getting Flash Forwards lol) 

I've always been so eh about Robin, so when he died, I just shrugged. I just hope Regina doesn't put this all on Emma. YOU chose to go to the Underworld with her, she tried to get you to go back and YOU chose to stay. 

I think out of everyone on the series that was a Villain, Hook has had the best transformation arc from Villain to Hero. Hook & Arthur were fun to watch. 

I kind of hope that we sometimes get a glimpse into the Underworld just so we can see how Cruella is doing. She's so much fun. 

I just love Captain Swan- and I thought their reunion scene was just amazing. Emma giving him all those kisses it was like she was trying to make sure he was real. But I do have a question right at the end before Emma & Hook turn around to look at Robin's grave- Hook answers or says "So do you" to Emma- she said something to him right before she hugs him- but she says it fast and then nuzzles into his neck again- I have played the video a few times and I can't figure out what she said for his answer to be "So do you". Anyone know? 

Edited May 9, 2016 by SiobhanJW

[twoods]

Great. Regina was so likable this season and now because of Robin's death she will go all crazy evil queen on everyone. I guess this is setting her up to be the big bad next season? I really loved her bonding with Emma and the crew. Plus, the OQ fans got royally screwed.

The CS scenes made me cry but wish they were at Hook's grave instead of Robin's. 

Arthur was pretty awesome. Glad he got redeemed. Also didn't expect Zelena to kill Hades.