The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[floridamom]

Why would TLC film this at all? It says the parents and 14 of their kids...the UNMARRIED ones and Tyler are going. Counting On was supposed to be about Jill and Jessa, the MARRIED ones. No reason to film this circus attraction. Jim Bob and Michelle have nothing NEW to say. It's the same old cliches'  for them. 

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, Temperance said:

 

 I notice his church's website doesn't mention Gothard or IBLP for that matter. Is this normal? 

 

Yeah, it's totally normal. 

Gothard and IBLP have never been tied to churches or denominations, for multiple reasons, I think. Gothard's "teachings" are entirely idiosyncratic so they don't align at all with those of any particular church or denomination, so the churches don't want the link -- Plus even churches where a lot of people are involved likely don't want to advertise that any of their members or leaders are in what many have always considered to be a cult (bad for church business -- get 'em in the door before they find this out...gradually).

And for Gothard, of course, it's much better for business to not affiliate with any particular church or denomination because then you can pick up suckers anywhere. .... And you don't need to reassure them that they're not abandoning their own church/faith by joining up with Gothard. Gothardland is a life-improvement system all on its own that is compatible with your brand of Christianity, whatever it is, but an enhancement for you personally -- that's pretty much the line, I think... I've heard of people coming on groups of Gothardites in churches of all kinds. 

So -- better for business at both ends for no link to be made. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Churchhoney

[EVS]

13 hours ago, ChocolateAddict said:

 

Out of the 4 keynote speakers, only 1 is actually from Australia.  The others are from Texas and Illinois (Joe Norvell and Robert Bath if those names mean anything). Apparently last year they had 220 people attend across both conferences.  All things considered, that is pretty tiny.  We get more people to our end-of-season soccer club event. 

In their world, isn’t that only 10-12 families?

[EVS]

16 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Koka go as a female. Easy-peasy: jean skirt, flip-flops, modest shirt and long haired wig. Just look shyly at your toes and no one will figure you out. Take lots of pictures for us!

Get Jana's phone number!

 

16 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

I’m 6’3”. That might arouse suspicion. 

I still think you should go disguised as a female just to freak them out. They would probably think you are an evil transgender waiting to follow a lost girl into the women’s bathroom.  

Edited December 3, 2017 by EVS
My proofreading skills suck.

[GeeGolly]

16 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

I’m 6’3”. That might arouse suspicion. 

Your shtick can be that you were a former WNBA player but have now been called to God.

[bythelake]

I wonder who chooses which family goes on these speaking engagements? The Bates clan is further up  the Gothard chain than the Duggars, and are less tainted (that we know of) by scandal, yet we don't see them on many, if any call to Jesus trips. They present themselves much better than the Duggars, they're more attractive, personable, well-scrubbed, and still deep into the Kool-Aid.

 Maybe TLC will be filming it and air it as a special. The Duggars still have enough of an audience to bring in money, and publicity for themselves, Gothard and TLC. 

[Temperance]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, it's totally normal. 

Gothard and IBLP have never been tied to churches or denominations, for multiple reasons, I think. Gothard's "teachings" are entirely idiosyncratic so they don't align at all with those of any particular church or denomination, so the churches don't want the link -- Plus even churches where a lot of people are involved likely don't want to advertise that any of their members or leaders are in what many have always considered to be a cult (bad for church business -- get 'em in the door before they find this out...gradually).

And for Gothard, of course, it's much better for business to not affiliate with any particular church or denomination because then you can pick up suckers anywhere. .... And you don't need to reassure them that they're not abandoning their own church/faith by joining up with Gothard. Gothardland is a life-improvement system all on its own that is compatible with your brand of Christianity, whatever it is, but an enhancement for you personally -- that's pretty much the line, I think... I've heard of people coming on groups of Gothardites in churches of all kinds. 

So -- better for business at both ends for no link to be made. 

Except this church is a Baptist church. It's not  a Gothard/IBLP church. 

[EAG46]

Australia has enough problems, what with drought, deadly snakes and spiders, and other animals waiting to attack around every corner.  Does it really need a band of ignorant Gothardites down there to bother the good citizens?  

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, bythelake said:

I wonder who chooses which family goes on these speaking engagements? The Bates clan is further up  the Gothard chain than the Duggars, and are less tainted (that we know of) by scandal, yet we don't see them on many, if any call to Jesus trips. They present themselves much better than the Duggars, they're more attractive, personable, well-scrubbed, and still deep into the Kool-Aid.

 Maybe TLC will be filming it and air it as a special. The Duggars still have enough of an audience to bring in money, and publicity for themselves, Gothard and TLC. 

Gil and Kelly did speak at the Australia family conference, though  -- sometime in the last couple years. So they've already tried bringing in more low-key, "substantive" people to the Oz shows, and they don't want to bring them back again right away, so let's throw spaghetti at the wall in this tottering enterprise and see what sticks. 

I don't think the choice has anything much to do with who's higher up in Gothard hierarchy. Seems to me that this is clearly about sales -- bring in somebody who's ostensibly famous and has the "wow look at all those kids" factor and the "cute kids" factor and the highly-visible-on-tv factor (since the Duggs' tv career has a lot more visibility, especially internationally, than the Bateses) -- and hope that gins up interest in Oz so you can bring in more paying customers there. 

I can't imagine that the choice was made for any purposes other than desperation advertising. When you have an annual family conference in a country of 25 million people and only pull in 220-some attendees (among a crowd that probably has some big families in it) you're looking at an enterprise that needs to be goosed hard to try to stop it from it becoming completely comatose, I would think!

And I'd be shocked, astonished and completely gobsmacked if TLC aired this!  After knocking themselves out to obscure the Gothard connection on tv for all these years, I just can't see either TLC or the Duggs changing their minds about that now. Especially now that the Gothard lawsuit exists -- his enterprises have even more poison attached to them today than they did 10 years ago, and both TLC and the Duggars lied-by-omission about the connection then, for the most part. 

[Churchhoney]

23 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Except this church is a Baptist church. It's not  a Gothard/IBLP church. 

Okay, I'm confused.

There is no such thing as a Gothard/IBLP church! So the guy can't be a minister in a Gothard church, even if he'd like to be.

A Gothardy minister might belong to any Protestant group -- his Gothardism is separate. Gothardism isn't a church -- it's a Christianized self-help cult based on one guy's ideas that doesn't align itself with any specific Christian denomination or church but advertises itself as compatible with a Christian life generally. 

And as far as I know, no churches or denominations at all have ever wanted to openly advertise that they had people in them who were Gothardites, especially the ministers.

What happens is -- you have a church... in this case a Baptist church.... and maybe one or more of its ministers also does the Gothard group. But, also as far as I know, that's literally never announced by a church.

Gothard and his followers portray his self-help ideas as being compatible with Christianity, but they're also dead weird and are seen by many many people as being quite contradictory to many Protestant theologies, in their details, not to mention cultish. So I think pretty much nobody would write on their church webpage -- We're Baptist and we do IBLP! They're Baptist. And the IBLP stuff is done behind the scenes because plenty of Baptists see IBLP as a cult with some beliefs that are utterly contradictory to Baptist beliefs. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Temperance]

@Churchhoney Thank you! I didn't know that Gothard didn't have his own churches. Or his movement was spread out like that. I assumed that people who followed Gothard, went to churches where everyone followed Gothard and talked about it openly/ the church was overtly connected to IBLP.  Excuse my ignorance. 

[latetotheparty]

It's too bad they all are going. I was hoping Jana could stay back and abscond with one of the cars and the nest egg she's stuffed in her mattress over the years. 

[Churchhoney]

10 minutes ago, Temperance said:

@Churchhoney Thank you! I didn't know that Gothard didn't have his own churches. Or his movement was spread out like that. I assumed that people who followed Gothard, went to churches where everyone followed Gothard and talked about it openly/ the church was overtly connected to IBLP.  Excuse my ignorance. 

Nothing ignorant to excuse! I thought that when I first heard about it, too. ..... Then I got mad and started reading up! (which mostly made me madder ... lol) 

And it is true -- or it least it was, when Gothardism had more followers -- that there are some churches where there are tons of Gothardites and they do talk about it openly. It has tended to spread through local communities. ....

Even in those cases, though, I don't know where there have been many, or any churches, that actually stated the connection officially in any way. .... As a denominational church, you almost certainly could not get away with it, since denominations want people to embrace their theology, not the theology of some con-man English major. So if any have actually put it on their websites and signboards or anything, it would have been independent churches that did. I haven't heard of any but that doesn't mean there haven't been any.  And I have heard of people who were told about the Gothard connection as soon as they started looking at a particular church seriously as their new church home -- but only after they were in the door and had announced themselves as prospective members.... they didn't find it on the brochures or anything.... 

[Churchhoney]

16 minutes ago, latetotheparty said:

It's too bad they all are going. I was hoping Jana could stay back and abscond with one of the cars and the nest egg she's stuffed in her mattress over the years. 

Me, too. When I first heard about the trip, I flashed on the fantasy that Jana, Josiah and JD could "stay home" -- on the argument that lots of things would still need doing around the TTH and associated businesses -- and use the opportunity to pull the cash out of their mattresses and local bank accounts, flee, find themselves an apartment in another city to share and start trying to put their blighted lives together. Poor things.

I still do wonder what a bunch of strangers think about a family with 20-somethings who are not home because they're trying to pay for grad school or they've just come off a layoff or a divorce and are gathering steam for their next foray out but because they're still there and their apparent purpose is to do all the family scut work -- possibly for eternity. You'd have to be a little bit sick or nuts to think that was a sign of great parenting, seems to me. Especially when it's not one but three. 

[Sew Sumi]

4 hours ago, Temperance said:

@Churchhoney Thank you! I didn't know that Gothard didn't have his own churches. Or his movement was spread out like that. I assumed that people who followed Gothard, went to churches where everyone followed Gothard and talked about it openly/ the church was overtly connected to IBLP.  Excuse my ignorance. 

Gil Bates' church aligns under the umbrella of IFB, but I bet you dollars to donuts that you get quite the Gothard indoctrination in his sermons. They openly talk about the "character qualities" on the show; I can only imagine how in depth he can go at church. All this without a whisper of Gothard. I imagine this goes on elsewhere as well, although I imagine there there might be a little more transparency in other churches. I bet that some of Gil's parishioners attend for the celebrity factor that would be absent in other churches where the pastor was a Gothardite. That's the reason Boob's church was by invitation only; no way the Duggars wanted the true extremism of their religion exposed to just anyone and taint their brand. There are still people out there who think the Duggars and Bateses are mainstream Evangelical.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Sew Sumi
need to cut my nails

[Jynnan tonnix]

2 hours ago, latetotheparty said:

It's too bad they all are going. I was hoping Jana could stay back and abscond with one of the cars and the nest egg she's stuffed in her mattress over the years. 

Maybe she'll meet a roguish Australian gentleman who will sweep her off her feet! And then keep her down there. That should be far enough away.

[floridamom]

I have always found it questionable and strange why Jim Bob AND Gil Bates have purposely avoided mentioning Bill Gothard's name when speaking about their extreme beliefs and lifestyle. This in itself, was telling to me. If one feels they have to 'hide" any names or truths about their 'religion', that's a great big red flag to me. But they do it and get away with it... Gil Bates has gone on TV to say that he heard 'a man' speak about homeschooling some years ago and thought that was a good idea. I remember specifically . He avoided Bill Gothard's name and any of those 'initial' groups they belong to. Telling.

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, Temperance said:

@Churchhoney Thank you! I didn't know that Gothard didn't have his own churches. Or his movement was spread out like that. I assumed that people who followed Gothard, went to churches where everyone followed Gothard and talked about it openly/ the church was overtly connected to IBLP.  Excuse my ignorance. 

What about JB's previous home church? Was it considered a Baptist church?

[galaxychaser]

It will be 4 hours of jim talking and Michelle smiling meekly at the headship. 

[kalamac]

1 hour ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Maybe she'll meet a roguish Australian gentleman who will sweep her off her feet! And then keep her down there. That should be far enough away.

I wonder if Farmer Wants a Wife is still on the air? They could have a crossover event, and Jana would get that 'man who works with his hands' that she said she wanted.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

What about JB's previous home church? Was it considered a Baptist church?

They never specified, but seem to have aligned most closely with IFB. However, they could have called themselves non-denominational, which, as Churchie pointed out, aligns more with Gothard's approach. 

In the earlier years of the Duggars' marriage, they were mainstream Baptists, but Dr. Wheat and Jim Sammons' Gothardite Financial Freedom seminars led then down the path to at least IFB when the oldest kids were pretty young. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[bigskygirl]

1 hour ago, galaxychaser said:

It will be 4 hours of jim talking and Michelle smiling meekly at the headship. 

JB going on and on about how his own father abused him by not being religious enough. Makes me want to slap the crap out of him. How dare he said his father abused him after what he has done to his own children especially his own daughters who were being sexually molested by his son right under his nose and did nothing to protect them or get help for Josh. I am waiting for the day when someone goes up to his face and calls him and Michelle out on it. GRRR!!!

Edited December 4, 2017 by bigskygirl

[riverblue22]

1 hour ago, kalamac said:

I wonder if Farmer Wants a Wife is still on the air? They could have a crossover event, and Jana would get that 'man who works with his hands' that she said she wanted.

I think Jana is looking for a Chip Gaines types of working man.

[cmr2014]

2 hours ago, kalamac said:

I wonder if Farmer Wants a Wife is still on the air? They could have a crossover event, and Jana would get that 'man who works with his hands' that she said she wanted.

I don't know anything about the show, and certainly wouldn't put it past JB to put Jana on the show for $$$, but I think it sounds like a better idea than it is. A lonely farmer living in an isolated location doesn't really need an introverted wife who barely speaks to him. Maybe in real life, Jana would blossom in a situation like that and they would have a warm and intimate relationship, but I think it's far more likely that they would both be miserable and isolated and lonely. Plus, that poor schlub would have a dozen Duggar in-laws freeloading off him all the time without doing a bit of work.

[DangerousMinds]

45 minutes ago, riverblue22 said:

I think Jana is looking for a Chip Gaines types of working man.

So is Jessa, but the little princess just couldn't wait and took the first teenager that came for her.

[Absolom]

Jim Bob's private church was very Gothard.  He at times showed Gothard DVDs instead of a sermon or regular church service.  Most of the people presenting sermons were Gothard followers.

[floridamom]

Jana's illusion of 'working beside her husband' doing construction/farming" type things is unrealistic for her. She will be pregnant almost immediately and continue to either nurse an infant or be expecting the next one in line. Not a good situation to be in if you want to do construction/farming type activities. Jana needs to fess up and let us know what it is that SHE REALLY wants out of life. ....but that's too hard of a question for her to answer without asking her father what it is that she wants first. TLC already tried that one and she came across looking like a mindless idiot, IMO.

[Marigold]

I'm a homeschooler with my two oldest in college.  

I wouldn't ask Jim Bob and Michelle for any advice about homeschooling.  Every program I have seen them use or endorse is not top quality curriculum. It looks like a hodge podge of chaos.  Not to mention, none of them have attended college or any higher learning of any kind. 

Thanks but no thanks.  :(

[louannems]

I went to the Institute of Basic Life Principles Australia Facebook.  Scroll down a bit to see the Duggars family advertisement.  There is one long comment by Sharon Howard that is so worth reading!

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

I went to the Institute of Basic Life Principles Australia Facebook.  Scroll down a bit to see the Duggars family advertisement.  There is one long comment by Sharon Howard that is so worth reading!

????

[MargeGunderson]

On 12/2/2017 at 9:47 PM, ChocolateAddict said:

The description for Jim Bob and Michelle is nauseating. 

"Raising 19 children is a big challenge; raising them for over 10 years while on reality TV is an even greater challenge.  Trusting in the Lord for their family is something that Jim Bob and Michelle have definitely experienced, both privately and publicly. The Duggars humbly share their joys and trials, desiring to minister to other families who desire God's best, even when their lives take unexpected turns.  Jim Bob and Michelle's message is still the same: trust in the Lord"

Oh please, when have Jim Bob and Michelle done anything humbly? Also, I would pay someone to ask them about the unexpected turn that is Josh's life. 

[ChiCricket]

2 hours ago, louannems said:

I went to the Institute of Basic Life Principles Australia Facebook.  Scroll down a bit to see the Duggars family advertisement.  There is one long comment by Sharon Howard that is so worth reading!

Saving this here before it gets erased..LOL

Sharon Howard:

"Rainbow Ribbons" is the Lilydale LBGTQ Advocacy and Support Association.  We are super excited about the Duggar family's appearance at our local church in January. Their attitude towards the LBGTQ community is well known and we look forward to telling them what we think of it. Many of us are hoping that Mr Jim Bob will help us to find the same sex partner God has waiting for us. We hope Mrs Jim Bob will bring  some Tater Tot casserole for fellowship and we would love to invite her to a Lipstick Ladies Lunch. Mr Jim Bob is a proud and open supporter of same sex relationships, he encourages, actually insists, all the males sleep in the same room at their house; brothers, friends, visitors, so long as it's boys with boys, he is just fine with it. Same for girls too. How cool is that! It's straight people he has an issue with, all that chaperoning and courting he makes them go through. He must think those straight people can't be trusted. We are going to make them honorary Rainbow Ribbons and we hope they will wear it with pride."

[Aja]

2 minutes ago, ChiCricket said:

Saving this here before it gets erased..LOL

Sharon Howard:

"Rainbow Ribbons" is the Lilydale LBGTQ Advocacy and Support Association.  We are super excited about the Duggar family's appearance at our local church in January. Their attitude towards the LBGTQ community is well known and we look forward to telling them what we think of it. Many of us are hoping that Mr Jim Bob will help us to find the same sex partner God has waiting for us. We hope Mrs Jim Bob will bring  some Tater Tot casserole for fellowship and we would love to invite her to a Lipstick Ladies Lunch. Mr Jim Bob is a proud and open supporter of same sex relationships, he encourages, actually insists, all the males sleep in the same room at their house; brothers, friends, visitors, so long as it's boys with boys, he is just fine with it. Same for girls too. How cool is that! It's straight people he has an issue with, all that chaperoning and courting he makes them go through. He must think those straight people can't be trusted. We are going to make them honorary Rainbow Ribbons and we hope they will wear it with pride."

"So proud of my virtual wife. Go for it, honey!" --Aja Howard

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On 12/3/2017 at 1:08 PM, latetotheparty said:

It's too bad they all are going. I was hoping Jana could stay back and abscond with one of the cars and the nest egg she's stuffed in her mattress over the years. 

 

22 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Maybe she'll meet a roguish Australian gentleman who will sweep her off her feet! And then keep her down there. That should be far enough away.

Yeah...I'm hoping Jana "forgets" she dropped something in the airport as they're boarding the plane to come back...and then she watches from the airport window as their plane takes off. Then she starts her new life in Australia.

 

The Rainbow Ribbons post is amazing!!! #goals

Edited December 4, 2017 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Aja]

I WANT TO GO TO THE LIPSTICK LADIES LUNCH!!!!!

[Annb67]

20 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

Saving this here before it gets erased..LOL

Sharon Howard:

"Rainbow Ribbons" is the Lilydale LBGTQ Advocacy and Support Association.  We are super excited about the Duggar family's appearance at our local church in January. Their attitude towards the LBGTQ community is well known and we look forward to telling them what we think of it. Many of us are hoping that Mr Jim Bob will help us to find the same sex partner God has waiting for us. We hope Mrs Jim Bob will bring  some Tater Tot casserole for fellowship and we would love to invite her to a Lipstick Ladies Lunch. Mr Jim Bob is a proud and open supporter of same sex relationships, he encourages, actually insists, all the males sleep in the same room at their house; brothers, friends, visitors, so long as it's boys with boys, he is just fine with it. Same for girls too. How cool is that! It's straight people he has an issue with, all that chaperoning and courting he makes them go through. He must think those straight people can't be trusted. We are going to make them honorary Rainbow Ribbons and we hope they will wear it with pride."

This is GLORIOUS! ?

[GeeGolly]

On 12/4/2017 at 2:54 PM, Aja said:

I WANT TO GO TO THE LIPSTICK LADIES LUNCH!!!!!

We'll start a GO FUND ME for you and post it on Derick's Twitter account. LOL

[kalamac]

Gay marriage was just legalized here in Australia. Couples can start registering their intent to marry next week, and the first marriages will start taking place right around the time the Duggars are arriving for their crappy conferences. The timing amuses me.

But also Yay for marriage equality! It's about damn time my country did the right thing.

[Arwen Evenstar]

4 hours ago, kalamac said:

But also Yay for marriage equality! It's about damn time my country did the right thing.

Yay for Oz!  I’m actually surprised the US did something that progressive before Oz did, but there are plenty of knuckleheads here already trying to roll back the hard won rights of LGBT people the very day they got them and that is just so wrong  We’re still waiting for universal access to healthcare here. Sigh!!

Sad how preventing universal access to healthcare isn’t viewed as a moral issue here by the same people who are outraged by the very idea that equality is for everyone. I’ll dtop my rant, before the mods send me to the Prayer Closet without any wine.

i hope the Duggars and their ilk get schooled.  Just like in Wong Foo, a drag makeover to change hearts and minds one Fundy at at time. 

[Sew Sumi]

The Duggars don't deserve the Strawberry Social. 

[frenchtoast]

Folks, we're veering into discussing current event topics rather than the Duggars in the Media. Let's try to swing back, please. Thank you!

[flyingdi]

On 12/3/2017 at 7:46 PM, riverblue22 said:

I think Jana is looking for a Chip Gaines types of working man.

I honestly thought you said Chris Gaines and I thought Jana wants Garth Brooks?

[Mollie]

The Counting On show started two years ago on December 13, 2015.  The last episode aired on October 23, 2017, featuring Joe and Kendra's wedding.  TLC has not made any announcement about whether the show will return for another season or if it will be cancelled.  The only recent statement by the network was to announce that Derick Dillard has been off the show for some time and is not scheduled for future appearances.  There was no birth episode for baby Samuel, who is now five months old.

The Duggar blog run by Lily and Ellie posted this on December 3:

"Counting On has been off the air for six weeks now, and we know you all are eager to hear whether the Duggars will be returning for a new season.

"We have been in contact with TLC," the statement continues, "but at this time, there are no announcements to share."

On October 29, the same blog noted that the show's future was uncertain and made an appeal for people to contact TLC if they wanted the show renewed.  They even posted a link to a form to use on the TLC website.

On December 6, TLC announced the renewal of I Am Jazz, the show about the transgender teenager who was bullied online by Derick.  The next season of that show begins in January.

This doesn't bode well for the fate of the Duggars' show.  How will the couples survive without those paychecks? 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Mollie

[DangerousMinds]

Get jobs? LMAO.

[bigskygirl]

I Am Jazz is renewed and Counting On may not be. Oh the irony!

Btw, jobs is a dirty four letter word to the married couples.

[Mollie]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

Get jobs? LMAO.

Surely you jest.  Jobs and work are four-letter-words.

[Almost 3000]

21 minutes ago, Mollie said:

Surely you jest.  Jobs and work are four-letter-words.

Maynard G. Krebs and Derick have the same reaction to the word "work." They have a similar style too. (I'm showing my age)

[Albanyguy]

5 hours ago, Mollie said:

The Counting On show started two years ago on December 13, 2015.  The last episode aired on October 23, 2017, featuring Joe and Kendra's wedding.  TLC has not made any announcement about whether the show will return for another season or if it will be cancelled.  The only recent statement by the network was to announce that Derick Dillard has been off the show for some time and is not scheduled for future appearances.  There was no birth episode for baby Samuel, who is now five months old.

The Duggar blog run by Lily and Ellie posted this on December 3:

"Counting On has been off the air for six weeks now, and we know you all are eager to hear whether the Duggars will be returning for a new season.

"We have been in contact with TLC," the statement continues, "but at this time, there are no announcements to share."

On October 29, the same blog noted that the show's future was uncertain and made an appeal for people to contact TLC if they wanted the show renewed.  They even posted a link to a form to use on the TLC website.

And this is how the Duggars' TV stardom ends...not with a bang but with a whimper. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Albanyguy

[awaken]

3 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

And this is how the Duggars' TV stardom ends...not with a bang but with a whimper. 

We can fervently hope. 

[Tabbygirl521]

God knows they've done enough banging.