Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

[Mabinogia]

12 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I love Great British Bake Off!  

Regarding the dramatic stories, I was part of a group that auditioned for a reality trivia competition show.  The money went to a designated charity, the producer really liked a local charity connected with our church, and they desperately needed another person on the team who could pass the written test.  We got to the audition part, and the producer desperately wanted us to be picked.  I have a child with some significant special needs and she pointed to me and said, “I am going to make you cry.”  Now, first of all I hate being in front of a camera.  Secondly, a comment like that completely numbs me.  I knew right then that I wouldn’t cry no matter what she said, and let me tell you she stopped that camera a lot and tried her hardest to make me.  We didn’t get picked, thank goodness.  But now every time I see someone cry during an interview on a reality or competitive show, my stomach turns at the manipulation I know happened to get that.

That is horrible, but not surprising. One thing I LOVE about GBBO is that Mel and Sue deliberately ruined shots when production would try to make the Bakers cry. If a baker was doing an interview and production were prodding them to tell some story that would bring tears, Mel or Sue would rush into the background and do something stupid or start swearing or whatever so that they couldn't use the footage. That is what set the show apart and forced it to focus on baking drama rather than personal history drama. 

I HATE knowing contestants backstories because it is almost always just manipulation (by production) to make us root for the one they know is going to win, or to make us root for one they know is going to lose so we'll all talk about it the next day. 

[Bastet]

10 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

I read a little bit on the Final Table forum here and some people mentioned that they thought Top Chef was better, so we tried it and could barely make it through the pilot episode. 

Oh, lords, the first season of Top Chef is horrible.  Season two is worse.  But I stuck with it for the potential and given the TV landscape at the time.  It took a while to shake off the reality show stench and establish itself as a proper cooking competition, after which it recruited a better and better caliber of chefs and judges to in fairly short order become the gold standard.  Even though the "cheftestants" do live together during filming, the footage from the house is minimal - mostly just little 30-second glimpses at the beginning of each episode to hint at the personal dynamics - as it's about the cooking.

It's one of the very few competition shows I watch other than Jeopardy! (I also watch Beat Bobby Flay and occasionally Chopped), and it's my favorite of those by a mile.  If you want to give it another try, I suggest starting with recent seasons (the most recent was an All-Stars competition, and absolutely fantastic!) rather than going back to the beginning.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Bastet

[Ambrosefolly]

Years ago, I met up with a high school classmate of mine. When we were in school together, she was a top singer in the state. She sang leads in musicals, won the highest honors at the choir festivals and was one of two female finalist in the state. So naturally I asked if thought about trying out for American Idol. She told me she already had; she didn't make it through the first round. I admit, I never seen a single episode of American Idol, but hearing that a realized what a fucking sham the audition process was and no matter how cocky some of the terrible contestant were, I really pitted them. If my friend had been practicing before the first round of auditions and you realized that she didn't make it and you did, of course you could think that you were really that good, not realizing it might have been an optics issue instead of a talent one. 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[Mabinogia]

4 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Years ago, I met up with a high school classmate of mine. When we were in school together, she was a top singer in the state. She sang leads in musicals, won the highest honors at the choir festivals and was one of two female finalist in the state. So naturally I asked if thought about trying out for American Idol. She told me she already had; she didn't make it through the first round. I admit, I never seen a single episode of American Idol, but hearing that a realized what a forking sham the audition process was and no matter how cocky some of the terrible contestant were, I really pitted them. If my friend had been practicing before the first round of auditions and you realized that she didn't make it and you did, of course you could think that you were really that good, not realizing it might have been an optics issue instead of a talent one instead. 

She must not have had a great sob story she was willing to exploit. That show is one of the worst offenders of manufactured emotions, telling the tragic tale of how the singer triumphed in their terrible, horror stricken life to make it to the AI stage!

[Anduin]

9 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Or a DeLorean

Ah, but that's movies. Doesn't count.

[proserpina65]

21 hours ago, Bastet said:

Oh, lords, the first season of Top Chef is horrible.  Season two is worse.  But I stuck with it for the potential and given the TV landscape at the time.  It took a while to shake off the reality show stench and establish itself as a proper cooking competition, after which it recruited a better and better caliber of chefs and judges to in fairly short order become the gold standard.  Even though the "cheftestants" do live together during filming, the footage from the house is minimal - mostly just little 30-second glimpses at the beginning of each episode to hint at the personal dynamics - as it's about the cooking.

My UO is that I liked the first season of Top Chef precisely because the contestants were not all professional chefs.

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

My UO is that I liked the first season of Top Chef precisely because the contestants were not all professional chefs.

And my (probably*) UO is that for a long time, Harold Dieterle was my favorite reality show winner. It felt earned and satisfying which was very unusual, IMO, back when his season of Top Chef aired.

*I say probably because Top Chef didn't became big until later seasons--ironically probably because of the shitshow that was season 2--the quality of the competition changed and therefore it's not talked about much even when LeAnne comes back.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Irlandesa

[Ambrosefolly]

I no longer care if the people that do terrible things "have a good heart and won't hurt innocent women and children." They still do terrible things and what makes it worse is that they know perfectly well the things they do are terrible. I believe that Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad not only deserved to be imprisoned by the neo Nazi gang, he didn't deserve to get a fresh start in Alaska and instead should have gone to jail.Don't get me wrong, it was great when Walt mowed down that gang and Jesse strangled Todd with his restraints; Todd might have been a sociopath with no real concept between right or wrong, but he still killed innocent kids and women. I just don't care that Jesse had tears in his eyes when he shot Gale dead, he still shot Gale dead.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[proserpina65]

On ‎08‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 6:46 PM, Irlandesa said:

And my (probably*) UO is that for a long time, Harold Dieterle was my favorite reality show winner. It felt earned and satisfying which was very unusual, IMO, back when his season of Top Chef aired.

*I say probably because Top Chef didn't became big until later seasons--ironically probably because of the shitshow that was season 2--the quality of the competition changed and therefore it's not talked about much even when LeAnne comes back.

He and Stephanie are my favorite winners.

Another Top Chef UO: I hated Anthony Bourdain as a judge.  He was a condescending asshole to most of the contestants.

[callie lee 29]

18 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

He and Stephanie are my favorite winners.

Another Top Chef UO: I hated Anthony Bourdain as a judge.  He was a condescending asshole to most of the contestants.

I think everything I saw Anthony Bourdain in he came across like a condescending asshole.

[janie jones]

On 8/1/2020 at 9:58 PM, Crs97 said:

I hate the American cooking shows when they get assigned their dish, they don’t get enough time to make it properly, and then halfway through the emcee comes in and announces they have to incorporate some specific ingredient like grapefruit.  Then we have to hear the judges complain that they didn’t fully incorporate the grapefruit into their chocolate soufflé.  One time I want the tables turned and the judges have to play the game and be critiqued on their dishes.

I'm not 100% sure about this, because I only ever have it on as background noise when nothing else is one and so I can periodically look at the food, but I'm pretty sure that on Guy's Grocery Games, former contestants judge, and I think there was one episode where they said the judges were going to compete in the next episode or something.

On 8/2/2020 at 12:34 PM, Mabinogia said:

I HATE knowing contestants backstories because it is almost always just manipulation (by production) to make us root for the one they know is going to win, or to make us root for one they know is going to lose so we'll all talk about it the next day. 

I think the backstories are a waste of time. I'm sympathetic to people's plights, but I'm watching because I want to watch people do the thing, not because I want to hear about people's lives.

[Cowgirl]

They had the judges cook on at least one episodeof Top Chef too. 

[Rockstar99435]

On 8/11/2020 at 10:00 AM, Ambrosefolly said:

I no longer care if the people that do terrible things "have a good heart and won't hurt innocent women and children." They still do terrible things and what makes it worse is that they know perfectly well the things they do are terrible. I believe that Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad not only deserved to be imprisoned by the neo Nazi gang, he didn't deserve to get a fresh start in Alaska and instead should have gone to jail.Don't get me wrong, it was great when Walt mowed down that gang and Jesse strangled Todd with his restraints; Todd might have been a sociopath with no real concept between right or wrong, but he still killed innocent kids and women. I just don't care that Jesse had tears in his eyes when he shot Gale dead, he still shot Gale dead.

Thank you! Jesse is the worst. I have no idea where this "he has a good heart" crap came from. He literally went to NA meetings to tempt recovering addicts back into using meth. He was a monster who sold poison to sick people for his own financial gain.

[Zella]

22 minutes ago, Rockstar99435 said:

He literally went to NA meetings to tempt recovering addicts back into using meth. He was a monster who sold poison to sick people for his own financial gain.

Of all the things Jesse did (and I liked Jesse as a character overall), this bothered me the most. I mean, I liked Gale and thought what happened to him was awful, but I could see why, from Jesse and Walt's point-of-view, he had to go (self-preservation). But taking advantage of those people at the meeting was just heinous. It also bothered me that Jesse then called Andrea out about it after he found out she had a kid--like he was operating on some higher moral plain after he'd been selling drugs to people at an NA meeting. 

My snapping point with Walt was poisoning a kid. I didn't think he was a great person before that, by any stretch of the imagination, but that bothered me so much I almost stopped watching the show. And hell I'm the type of person who eats during torture scenes,* so it's not like I'm squeamish. 

*filmed ones. I wouldn't eat during a real one. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Zella

[Ambrosefolly]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Of all the things Jesse did (and I liked Jesse as a character overall), this bothered me the most. I mean, I liked Gale and thought what happened to him was awful, but I could see why, from Jesse and Walt's point-of-view, he had to go (self-preservation). But taking advantage of those people at the meeting was just heinous. It also bothered me that Jesse then called Andrea out about it after he found out she had a kid--like he was operating on some higher moral plain after he'd been selling drugs to people at an NA meeting. 

My snapping point with Walt was poisoning a kid. I didn't think he was a great person before that, by any stretch of the imagination, but that bothered me so much I almost stopped watching the show. And hell I'm the type of person who eats during torture scenes,* so it's not like I'm squeamish. 

*filmed ones. I wouldn't eat during a real one. 

I will say, while I haven't watched every episode of Breaking Bad, I think there was an honesty when they presented Walt's character. The whole point of his arc was that he had become a monster because he kept on making so many "little"concessions to make money, that he went from being the protagonist to the antagonist, as Vince Gilligan intended. When Hank was killed in his attempted to take Walt down and his son wished him dead for it, that finally snapped him out of his "saving the family" mantra. While death might have been a little too good for him as I think he was relieved, at least he did try to make amends and accepted that it was the end and didn't deserve to have everything back.

[Zella]

13 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I will say, while I haven't watched every episode of Breaking Bad, I think there was an honesty when they presented Walt's character. The whole point of his arc was that he had become a monster because he kept on making so many "little"concessions to make money, that he went from being the protagonist to the antagonist, as Vince Gilligan intended. When Hank was killed in his attempted to take Walt down and his son wished him dead for it, that finally snapped him out of his "saving the family" mantra. While death might have been a little too good for him as I think he was relieved, at least he did try to make amends and accepted that it was the end and didn't deserve to have everything back.

That's very true! Walt had a fascinating character arc. And one of my favorite things in discussing the show is to compare notes with people on when they were finally like, "okay, sir, you are a villain."

My favorite moment in the finale (and I think the most honest moment Walt ever had with himself or anyone) was when Walt admitted that he didn't do what he did for his family, like he always had said. It was for him and, by extension, his own pride. 

[sistermagpie]

52 minutes ago, Rockstar99435 said:

Thank you! Jesse is the worst. I have no idea where this "he has a good heart" crap came from. He literally went to NA meetings to tempt recovering addicts back into using meth. He was a monster who sold poison to sick people for his own financial gain.

Yeah, I liked Jesse as a character but it did bother me that there seemed to be a popular theory that Jesse was a "Breaking Good" story because he leaned towards Mike over Walt and got self-righteous over kids and people he cared about.

Actually, that's another UO I have. I like Mike but people seemed to change the story so that he was the anti-Walt etc., remembering Walt as ruining the partnership with Gus just because of his arrogance when he actually ruined it by saving Jesse when Gus wanted to kill him. That's when Gus started planning to kill Walt and turning Jesse against him was part of that.

Not that this should be taken as a defense of Walt as a victim or anything, but Jesse and Mike and Gus were not innocent bystander victims of Walt's evil plans.

[Wiendish Fitch]

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, I liked Jesse as a character but it did bother me that there seemed to be a popular theory that Jesse was a "Breaking Good" story because he leaned towards Mike over Walt and got self-righteous over kids and people he cared about.

Actually, that's another UO I have. I like Mike but people seemed to change the story so that he was the anti-Walt etc., remembering Walt as ruining the partnership with Gus just because of his arrogance when he actually ruined it by saving Jesse when Gus wanted to kill him. That's when Gus started planning to kill Walt and turning Jesse against him was part of that.

Not that this should be taken as a defense of Walt as a victim or anything, but Jesse and Mike and Gus were not innocent bystander victims of Walt's evil plans.

My UO is that I find Mike deadly dull and groan out loud every time he's on screen.

[Nordly Beaumont]

Hmm... I guess it's my unpopular opinion that Breaking Bad isn't memorable. I watched it just last year, and I don't remember anything you all are posting about!

[VCRTracking]

Yeah Jessie was a real monster trying to sell to recovering addicts. Not like before when he was selling to regular ones! That's why the episode "Peekaboo" is great because while it shows Jessie being so sweet looking after that little boy whose parents are crazy meth-heads left him home alone but also that the kid is in that environment because of people like him. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by VCRTracking

[BradyBunchFan]

Two and a Half Men should've ended when either:

• Angus T. Jones got too old
• Charlie Sheen left the show

What were they thinking when they got Ashton Kutcher?

[Avabelle]

2 hours ago, BradyBunchFan said:

What were they thinking when they got Ashton Kutcher?

Probably that it was a cash cow and he could buy them at least another season. Given what a moron Sheen became I could see them not wanting to end it Just because he left but rather on their own terms. 

[sistermagpie]

I don't know how unpopular this is, but I just saw the Friends episode where they watch the video of Monica and Rachel's prom and it turns out that when Rachel worried her date had stood her up Ross was going to go with her. So Ross comes down in his tux just in time to see Rachel leaving with her date, who has of course shown up.

Like so much of Ross/Rachel for me, this ep is so off. Clearly we're supposed to feel sorry for Ross as he sadly watches Rachel leave. Rachel herself decides to give him a chance and kisses him, saying "You would have gone with me?" like he was caught on tape doing some wonderful thing. This after she looks teary seeing him so sad in his tux with his flowers he didn't get to give her.

But this tape does make Ross look particularly good at all. If he had no interest in her then, then yes, he'd be a college guy doing something nice for his sister's friend so she could go to the prom. But since he's always had a crush on Rachel, he's not doing anything for him. It's actually good luck for him to have an excuse to take her to the prom without having to ask her--as evidenced by him being so heartbroken when it turns out she didn't get stood up. And everybody else watching acts like he was robbed of his prom too--including Rachel. It's like Nice Guy 101.

[Cherpumple]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But this tape does make Ross look particularly good at all.

I agree. It's even worse that when Rachel turns arounds and asks him to check that her dress is fastened, he clearly takes the opportunity to try and caress her shoulder, and is visibly disappointed when she runs off to answer the door before he's able to. Ick!

I like the concept of the scene, and think if it was played differently it could come across that he was doing a nice thing to make someone he cared about happy, but his creepy/mopey Nice Guy vibes, and the way his parents are inexplicably disappointed for him (after they had to badger him into agreeing to take her) make it less enjoyable. But I still love the '80s styling on the characters, so that's a silver lining.

[Wiendish Fitch]

9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't know how unpopular this is, but I just saw the Friends episode where they watch the video of Monica and Rachel's prom and it turns out that when Rachel worried her date had stood her up Ross was going to go with her. So Ross comes down in his tux just in time to see Rachel leaving with her date, who has of course shown up.

Like so much of Ross/Rachel for me, this ep is so off. Clearly we're supposed to feel sorry for Ross as he sadly watches Rachel leave. Rachel herself decides to give him a chance and kisses him, saying "You would have gone with me?" like he was caught on tape doing some wonderful thing. This after she looks teary seeing him so sad in his tux with his flowers he didn't get to give her.

But this tape does make Ross look particularly good at all. If he had no interest in her then, then yes, he'd be a college guy doing something nice for his sister's friend so she could go to the prom. But since he's always had a crush on Rachel, he's not doing anything for him. It's actually good luck for him to have an excuse to take her to the prom without having to ask her--as evidenced by him being so heartbroken when it turns out she didn't get stood up. And everybody else watching acts like he was robbed of his prom too--including Rachel. It's like Nice Guy 101.

I'm glad someone is with me on that one. I didn't think it was a beautiful, heartfelt moment highlighting what a wonderful human being Ross was. I thought it was a pathetic, desperate, slightly creepy gesture to manipulate Rachel into taking him along to the prom. Frankly, if I were Rachel, I wouldn't be touched, I'd be insulted, because if you take the icky, Nice Guy vibes out of the equation, it could also be interpreted as college-aged Ross taking Rachel to the prom out of pity.

Am I the only one who finds it odd that Rachel is so blown away by this apparently selfless deed that she agrees to give Ross a chance... even though it happened 10 years ago?! So if someone does something, at best, marginally nice for you a decade ago, you can just decide right then and there you want to date them? I mean, don't get me wrong, gratitude is great, but come on! 

You know what really, really would have made Ross look wonderful? If he had made some phone calls, found out where Rachel's date was, gave her the news that, don't worry, he's just running late, she's relieved, and then everything is fine. That would have a lot more selfless by comparison, because he isn't taking emotional advantage of his sister's friend!

[Crs97]

The only couple on Friends I ever cared about was Chandler and Monica, but Monica was the only one who seemed to get “real” relationships.  The age thing was icky, but you could see Richard and she loved each other.  Pete was a good match.  I wouldn’t have minded either of them before Chandler.  Courtney Cox had good chemistry with her love interests.

[Blergh]

Gee, all this talk about how Ross even at his supposed 'nicest' was actually rather icky makes me glad I QUIT the show halfway through and have no further interest in seeing so much as another second of it in reruns! For the record, I held out as long as I did for Phoebe's sake until they destroyed her character and made her into one of 'them'. 

[Crs97]

7 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I thought it was a pathetic, desperate, slightly creepy gesture to manipulate Rachel into taking him along to the prom.

The scene doesn’t blow me away, but this is unduly harsh.  Ross wasn’t trying to manipulate her.  Her date was late, she was crying that she might have to go alone to prom, and his parents were the ones to suggest that he take her.

I thought the point of the video was for Rachel to see how much he liked her, but she already said in the pilot that she knew so it was a point of confusion for me.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But this tape does make Ross look particularly good at all.

Do you mean it doesn't make him look good? Honestly asking because this contradicts everything else you've posted. (I agree, by the way. Ross was SUCH and EEYORE).

[Wiendish Fitch]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Do you mean it doesn't make him look good? Honestly asking because this contradicts everything else you've posted. (I agree, by the way. Ross was SUCH and EEYORE).

Hey! Them's fightin' words! I love Eeyore!

I kid, of course, I realize "the Eeyore" is a trope. Still, say what you want about Eeyore, but he was always honest about himself and his regard for others. Ross was, in his own words, a "crap weasel".

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

I agree. It's even worse that when Rachel turns arounds and asks him to check that her dress is fastened, he clearly takes the opportunity to try and caress her shoulder, and is visibly disappointed when she runs off to answer the door before he's able to. Ick!

I like the concept of the scene, and think if it was played differently it could come across that he was doing a nice thing to make someone he cared about happy, but his creepy/mopey Nice Guy vibes, and the way his parents are inexplicably disappointed for him (after they had to badger him into agreeing to take her) make it less enjoyable. But I still love the '80s styling on the characters, so that's a silver lining.

Exactly. That moment completely confused me too. It made it seem like his parents were also jumping on the situation to get Ross the date he wanted. Why would they act like it was a shame that Rachel didn't need her pity date? Ross looks openly crestfallen when she's gone and his parents are like, "OMG STOP FILMING! WHERE'S THE BUTTON TO STOP FILMING! STOP! STOP!" like they know they're making the great tragedy worse for Ross.

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I'm glad someone is with me on that one. I didn't think it was a beautiful, heartfelt moment highlighting what a wonderful human being Ross was. I thought it was a pathetic, desperate, slightly creepy gesture to manipulate Rachel into taking him along to the prom. Frankly, if I were Rachel, I wouldn't be touched, I'd be insulted, because if you take the icky, Nice Guy vibes out of the equation, it could also be interpreted as college-aged Ross taking Rachel to the prom out of pity.

And there are plenty of college guys who'd be able to do that without it seeming like pity--but Ross sure wasn't one of them! Also, yes on his inability to fasten her sleeve without looking like he's going to caress her shoulder. The prom night seems like it would have been a disaster. Ut;s pretty OTT too--not only does he look like he's breaking out in a sweat touching her shoulder, but before he goes downstairs he has to take a moment on camera to make himself calm down.

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Am I the only one who finds it odd that Rachel is so blown away by this apparently selfless deed that she agrees to give Ross a chance... even though it happened 10 years ago?! So if someone does something, at best, marginally nice for you a decade ago, you can just decide right then and there you want to date them? I mean, don't get me wrong, gratitude is great, but come on!

Yes, it seems like a more normal reaction would have been something like, "You were going to go with me? That's so sweet!" and that's it. And everybody kind of reacts the same way, like they're watching some great tragedy about Ross. As do his parents on the tape. Somehow only Rachel and Monica and their dates somehow unaware of Ross' obvious crush.

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

The scene doesn’t blow me away, but this is unduly harsh.  Ross wasn’t trying to manipulate her.  Her date was late, she was crying that she might have to go alone to prom, and his parents were the ones to suggest that he take her.

I thought the point of the video was for Rachel to see how much he liked her, but she already said in the pilot that she knew so it was a point of confusion for me.

It does seem like all it shows is that he already liked her, but Rachel says "You would have gone with me?" or something before she kisses him, so it seems like they really are trying to say she's touched by his gesture.

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Do you mean it doesn't make him look good? Honestly asking because this contradicts everything else you've posted. (I agree, by the way. Ross was SUCH and EEYORE).

LOL! Yes, I meant doesn't! Unfortunately typo there. Totally meant doesn't.

That said, I totally agree that the best moment of the whole ep is where we first see Ross in all his mid-80s glory because omg that is hilarious. not just the styling but the face he makes too.

[Bort]

3 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Am I the only one who finds it odd that Rachel is so blown away by this apparently selfless deed that she agrees to give Ross a chance... even though it happened 10 years ago?! So if someone does something, at best, marginally nice for you a decade ago, you can just decide right then and there you want to date them? I mean, don't get me wrong, gratitude is great, but come on! 

Especially since Rachel had decided not to date Ross because of the awful list he made when trying to decide between her and Julie. Sorry, but that prom incident does not override that for me.

[nodorothyparker]

Ross and everyone's reactions to the prom video make sense if you realize that all of the Friends and all of us viewers at the time who were their contemporaries or a few years younger had been raised on a steady diet throughout the '80s and early '90s of John Hughes and John Cusack films where we were supposed to be rooting for the slightly creepy guy to get the girl even if he was crossing lines many of us probably wouldn't have recognized anyway to get there. He just couldn't help it because he felt so deeply. He was driven to act that way and she should be flattered by it. I was just starting college when Ross and Rachel happened and it would be seemingly years before it was widely understood how dysfunctional they really were.

[scarynikki12]

Don't forget that the prom video is in the same episode where Ross scares off a guy Rachel was interested in by pretending she was a prostitute. When Rachel gets mad at him his excuse is that he's her lobster (stupid Phoebe) and then she lays it on the table and tells him that they aren't going to be together because she's the one who keeps getting screwed over. It should have been a 'Yay Rachel!' moment but is framed as 'Poor Ross' instead. @nodorothyparker is right that this, and their whole relationship, is heavily influenced by 80s movie relationships. Relationship Goals they were not.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Ross and everyone's reactions to the prom video make sense if you realize that all of the Friends and all of us viewers at the time who were their contemporaries or a few years younger had been raised on a steady diet throughout the '80s and early '90s of John Hughes and John Cusack films where we were supposed to be rooting for the slightly creepy guy to get the girl even if he was crossing lines many of us probably wouldn't have recognized anyway to get there. He just couldn't help it because he felt so deeply. He was driven to act that way and she should be flattered by it. I was just starting college when Ross and Rachel happened and it would be seemingly years before it was widely understood how dysfunctional they really were.

I am that age and it's definitely true. I didn't see this ep first run. I wonder if I would have reacted to it differently if I didn't already find so much problematic in their relationship when I saw it. (To stick up for us and our contemporaries, I did always find their whole dynamic terrible for Rachel!)

[supposebly]

I didn't watch Friends when it aired originally and I wasn't really thinking too much about things or their relationship. I watched it in the early 2000s and I distinctly remember feeling rather puzzled why this was played as a poor Ross moment that made Rachel get all mushy.

I think Schwimmer and Aniston had great romantic and friendship chemistry overall, but the characters were just not suited to each other.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

Don't forget that the prom video is in the same episode where Ross scares off a guy Rachel was interested in by pretending she was a prostitute. When Rachel gets mad at him his excuse is that he's her lobster (stupid Phoebe) and then she lays it on the table and tells him that they aren't going to be together because she's the one who keeps getting screwed over. It should have been a 'Yay Rachel!' moment but is framed as 'Poor Ross' instead. @nodorothyparker is right that this, and their whole relationship, is heavily influenced by 80s movie relationships. Relationship Goals they were not.

God, I hate that lobster bullshit. The whole idea that two people who had known each other for years, then dated for a little over one year are somehow "meant to be" is such TV crap. I never like it when characters on shows voice the opinions that the audience is supposed to have (usually about a designated couple) and especially not when all the other four should have been imploring Rachel and Ross to stay as far away from any romantic entanglement with each other as possible. Look what happened when they were together? They almost tore the group apart more than once, putting everyone through every moment of their drama.

They should never have gotten back together, and only did so at the end because the showrunners figured they might as well give the fans what they want, even if it doesn't make any sense.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

God, I hate that lobster bullshit. The whole idea that two people who had known each other for years, then dated for a little over one year are somehow "meant to be" is such TV crap. I never like it when characters on shows voice the opinions that the audience is supposed to have (usually about a designated couple) and especially not when all the other four should have been imploring Rachel and Ross to stay as far away from any romantic entanglement with each other as possible. Look what happened when they were together? They almost tore the group apart more than once, putting everyone through every moment of their drama.

They should never have gotten back together, and only did so at the end because the showrunners figured they might as well give the fans what they want, even if it doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, it was amazing that none of their friends ever just went over with them the actual reasons they kept having problems, which mostly came down to not respecting each other that much. This was particularly true of Ross, who did things like humiliating Rachel on her first day at work at the job she actually wants as a career because he just can't see the job as anything more than some guy giving her something because he wants to sleep with her. Ross thinks that's all she's got going for her, so he assumed that's all there was.

Iirc, there's even a later ep that reveals that in high school he and another geek had an "I hate Rachel" club because Ross was just that much of an incel! His position always seemed to be that he loved her despite the fact that she shouldn't have been good enough for him. It was kind of amazing when the show actually made a healthy couple with Monica and Chandler.

Edited August 19, 2020 by sistermagpie

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

God, I hate that lobster bullshit. The whole idea that two people who had known each other for years, then dated for a little over one year are somehow "meant to be" is such TV crap.

They hadn't even dated at all at this point. This is after the "not Rachem" incident, not after the "we were on a break" incident.  They had nothing invested in any kind of relationship and the idea that their friends were trying to push them together because reasons was stupid.

Having said that, though, the prom incident doesn't bother me that much. It does seem weird that Rachel would find that so wonderful, since others have pointed out that he had a crush on her then, it was obvious and thus wasn't this big altruistic gesture.  But, I don't really find anything all that creepy about it in and of itself.  He was only a year older than her and she apparently was getting stood up.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I never regularly watched the show, but from time to time when these discussions arise, it just sounds awful.

[Crs97]

My UO is that I don't like either Rachel or Ross in their relationship so I don't spend much time feeling sorry for either of them.  Rachel is just as horrible to him, including flying to England to ruin his wedding (I am not talking about his saying the wrong name, which is on him, but deciding that she should tell him right before he gets married that she is in love with him, which was a crappy thing to do).  My favorite episode was TOW videotape for many reasons, one of which is that it is one of the few times she gets caught and called out for being manipulative toward Ross.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, it was amazing that none of their friends ever just went over with them the actual reasons they kept having problems, which mostly came down to not respecting each other that much. This was particularly true of Ross, who did things like humiliating Rachel on her first day at work at the job she actually wants as a career because he just can't see the job as anything more than some guy giving her something because he wants to sleep with her. Ross thinks that's all she's got going for her, so he assumed that's all there was.

Iirc, there's even a later ep that reveals that in high school he and another geek had an "I hate Rachel" club because Ross was just that much of an incel! His position always seemed to be that he loved her despite the fact that she shouldn't have been good enough for him. It was kind of amazing when the show actually made a healthy couple with Monica and Chandler.

 

19 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

My UO is that I don't like either Rachel or Ross in their relationship so I don't spend much time feeling sorry for either of them.  Rachel is just as horrible to him, including flying to England to ruin his wedding (I am not talking about his saying the wrong name, which is on him, but deciding that she should tell him right before he gets married that she is in love with him, which was a crappy thing to do).  My favorite episode was TOW videotape for many reasons, one of which is that it is one of the few times she gets caught and called out for being manipulative toward Ross.

I agree. I was for Ross and Rachel until they put them together. Instead of being romantic, great or anything. They ended up making it clear why they should not be together. They had nothing in common, didn't respect each other and didn't work. They both ended up being crappy to each other and after they broke up they treated each other even worse. Constantly messing with each other's relationships. It really made the characters come off even worse. They ended up acting like those bitter exes who can't stand to see their ex happy with someone else. I ended up hating both characters because of that. 

[sistermagpie]

55 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

My UO is that I don't like either Rachel or Ross in their relationship so I don't spend much time feeling sorry for either of them.  Rachel is just as horrible to him, including flying to England to ruin his wedding (I am not talking about his saying the wrong name, which is on him, but deciding that she should tell him right before he gets married that she is in love with him, which was a crappy thing to do).  My favorite episode was TOW videotape for many reasons, one of which is that it is one of the few times she gets caught and called out for being manipulative toward Ross.

Yes, that's another great defining moment. They only seemed to like each other enough to not want the other person to be happy. It never seems like there's a single moment where either of them seems to organically like the other person for who they are.

In fact, I think that's what this prom episode is trying to do, show Rachel seeing Ross with these new eyes and seeing he's a beautiful guy--except he's not actually doing anything that would believably make her think that in that moment. Honestly, she made more sense with Joey, even if it was just as friends.

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I never regularly watched the show, but from time to time when these discussions arise, it just sounds awful.

Yeah, I've only ever seen the occasional episode here and there, so it's always fascinating to be sitting on the sidelines and reading this stuff about these two, and comparing how people view the Ross/Rachel relationship now to how it was received back in the day. The more I hear about this relationship, the more exhausting it sounds.

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

They should never have gotten back together, and only did so at the end because the showrunners figured they might as well give the fans what they want, even if it doesn't make any sense.

It's funny how that works with some shows...sometimes they give the fans what they want, and it can still backfire, for the reasons you note, and then sometimes they don't give them what they want because they do want to do what's best for the story, and that backfires, too.

Writing for a TV show is hard :p. 

[Ubiquit0us]

This might not be an UO, but I am beyond tired of shows being bundled together or remixed and then passed off as new.

[kiddo82]

I've said this before whenever this conversation comes up and I'll say it again, the best time to end the Ross and Rachel romantic pairing should have been when she saw him in England right before his wedding.  She realized he had moved on and she accepted it.  It's actually a very beautiful moment when she congratulates him.  And the beauty of ending it there is that is that it doesn't fundamentally change the rest of the series.  He could still could have said the wrong name at the alter, they still could have gotten drunk and married in Vegas, and they still could have conceived Emma.  You don't need to be in love with the person to do any of those things.  The only difference is ending the series with them as a couple which is really no big loss as far as I'm concerned.  And by then it had been so long since they were an actual couple I think many people were over it.  Or at least I was.  

Edited August 20, 2020 by kiddo82

[juno]

1 hour ago, kiddo82 said:

I've said this before whenever this conversation comes up and I'll say it again, the best time to end the Ross and Rachel romantic pairing should have been when she saw him in England right before his wedding.  She realized he had moved on and she accepted it.  It's actually a very beautiful moment when she congratulates him.  And the beauty of ending it there is that is that it doesn't fundamentally change the rest of the series.  He could still could have said the wrong name at the alter, they still could have gotten drunk and married in Vegas, and they still could have conceived Emma.  You don't need to be in love with the person to do any of those things.  The only difference is ending the series with them as a couple which is really no big loss as far as I'm concerned.  And by then it had been so long since they were an actual couple I think many people were over it.  Or at least I was.  

But the producers weren't ready and that is the number one reason I hate shows. The neverending ship.

They throw relationship after relationship at the leads but they know that in the end it was always going to be Ross and Rachel. With the neverending ship it doesn't matter if Ross has great chemistry with Julie or Charlie they will kill those perfect relationships so he can end up with Rachel. What happens for me is that I just know at a certain point that all relationships will end so you just wait for the it to finally happen. I will never understand it or enjoy it, it kills the show.

One example is on a great show; Everwood where Ephram falls for Laynie, great chemistry and energy but they had to kill it so he can end up with Amy which was my all time example of a really crappy ship. It killed a great show for me.

[janie jones]

13 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Especially since Rachel had decided not to date Ross because of the awful list he made when trying to decide between her and Julie. Sorry, but that prom incident does not override that for me.

That stupid list. I'm pretty sure I was in elementary school when this episode aired, and I thought Rachel was an idiot for not realizing immediately that Rachem = Rachel.

[Ubiquit0us]

On 5/28/2020 at 10:46 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Xena Warrior Princess was a better feminist show than Buffy the Vampire Slayer ten ways to Sunday. Fight me.

I don't know if Xena was more feminist than Buffy, but my UO is that Xena and Gabrielle were close friends, not lesbian lovers. Yeah, yeah, "it's all subtext!", but sometimes a cigar really is a cigar.

 

On 6/17/2020 at 11:19 PM, Zella said:

We had a pretty nice little lovefest going on for Just Shoot Me recently in the "Land That Time Forgot" thread. I'd always been under the impression the show wasn't popular, so I enjoyed seeing other folks who enjoyed it as much as I did. 

I recently read  an article on Just Shoot Me that made me want to revisit the show.

https://25yearslatersite.com/2020/06/11/remembering-the-second-season-of-just-shoot-me/

 

On 6/18/2020 at 3:30 PM, Shannon L. said:

I understand and appreciate what Watchmen was saying about systemic racism, but it was way to weird for me to really stay tuned in.  I did continue watching it because my son and husband were enjoying it, but I, personally, considered it too ridiculous (with the exception of a few scenes--the opening segment with the bombing being one.) and if it hadn't been for them, I probably wouldn't have gotten through it.  As it was, I kept drifting.

I had low expectations when I watched The Watchmen b/c it involved that guy who made Lost, so I enjoyed it and refused to follow the online companion rabbit trails this time until the wheels fell of in the last couple episodes.

 

On 6/21/2020 at 12:48 PM, Blergh said:

As hokey and often simplistic the 1979-80 version of Battlestar Galactica was, I liked it much better than the depressing, broody and boot-deep 2005-2009 version. Why the former version didn't even make it one season while the latter lasted for four years, I will NEVER understand!  I couldn't even make it through one of the latter show's episodes. 

I tried to watch the new BSG pn CometTV but couldn't get past the low lighting and how it appears to be taped on a hand-held vidcam with a malfunctioning zoom.

 

On 6/21/2020 at 6:17 PM, meep.meep said:

But mostly it was the stupid robot dog.  And the adorable moppet.

Although it was progressive - they had two black guys!  Tighe and Boomer.

Ugh, that stupid robot dog and little boy! 

I always remember this line from Mad Magazine's spoof (page 5, first panel):

https://images.app.goo.gl/Sc1fx3dyv5Hiqmmn7

Quote

"You're so precious, Barfy! Every week, you say some innocent, endearing thing that makes me long for the ultimate destruction of all life on this ship!"

 

 

On 6/22/2020 at 9:54 PM, SmithW6079 said:

Is "Lexx" the sci-fi show that had giant insects (or something that looked like them) as spaceships or flying machines or something? I think I watched maybe one season of it. If it's on Tubi, I might have to check it out again. (If you can accept Tubi's limitations, with oddball show selections and commercial interruptions that don't follow any logical placement, it's not a bad streaming service. I was able to watch "Space: 1999" there.) 

 

Ooooh, it's on Tubi? Lexx was one of my fav SF space operas!

Edited August 21, 2020 by Ubiquit0us

[DoctorAtomic]

16 hours ago, Annber03 said:

It's funny how that works with some shows...sometimes they give the fans what they want, and it can still backfire, for the reasons you note, and then sometimes they don't give them what they want because they do want to do what's best for the story, and that backfires, too.

Writing for a TV show is hard :p. 

TPTBs - Know the show you have. It may not be what you thought it was. Tell the story that should be told. There's no reason shows should be on 10 years unless it's like Hotel or Doctor Who and you're spinning characters out and in.