S20.E10: The Women Tell All

[PhysNerd]

I also disagree..everyone is not "complex," and I don't mean that in an ugly way.  I have met some of the most "simple" people ever..who have had lives full of privilege and from their own admission have not faced a lot of adversity in their lives.  Some have not had privileged lives, but they are uncomplicated people.  I am hard to get to know and have an odd sense of humor. I know it is work to get to know me as a friend and as a romantic interest. I dont' want pity for it, it is just a fact.  My best friend, on the other hand is instantly likeable.  She always knows the right things to say and has lead a fairly stress free life.  

 

I agree that not everyone is complex, though I think we have different definitions of "complex" vs "simple."  To me, a simple person is straightforward....what you see is what you get.  "Simple" doesn't have anything to do with the amount of adversity someone has faced in their life thus far or whether they are charming.  A "complex" person is someone whose opinions and behavior are unpredictable; they are difficult to read.   Jubilee comes across as a straightforward person ( I hate using "simple."  It makes it look like we are labeling someone as dumb).  She is sullen, needy, mistrustful and doesn't make friends easily--not had to read at all.  This is where we get into a grey area: others may find her difficult to read.  Complexity is subjective when it comes to people.  I may view someone as complex but another person may be better able to read them and label them as "simple" or vice versa.  

That being said, given the incredibly immaturity that many of the women displayed tonight, I think Jubilee is complex compared to them, which is not saying a lot.  The chicken sitting in that one woman's lap is probably more complex than most of the women, in particular, the twins.

 

This is kind of painful for me because a really good friend of mine once asked me when I was trying to get pregnant how I would view my kids. She even quesitoned if I really wanted to have them because she felt that all "mixed kids have identity issues."

 

Your friend is sorely mistaken.  I'm composed of three races (Asian, White and Hispanic) and never had any identity issues.  It all depends on how you raise them.  If you raise them to believe that they are nothing more than their racial makeup, then yes, they will have issues  because they can never fully be one race.  However, if you raise them to view themselves as something beyond their physical characteristics, then they will be fine.  

Edited March 8, 2016 by PhysNerd

[poopchute]

I am genuinely curious: how is Jubilee an "incredible asshole"? As far as I can tell, she is complicated, layered woman because she's survived more difficult situations than most (if not all) of the other contestants. Also, I think it is fair that she thinks she is 'misunderstood' because it seems like the girls were going through great lengths to misunderstand her. The comments about Ben being late, someone else wanting her date, etc. were clearly meant to be funny, and I knew where she was coming from when I saw the show immediately, and was equally confused by the drama it caused. And the bit about her stating that she is "fully black" that Jami/Amber brought up as being offensive? That was even stranger because clearly Jubilee is fully black and Amber/Jami are not. What's there to be offended about? A fact is fact.

As far as I can recall, we don't have clips of Jubilee saying rude things about any of the other women or being outrightly mean-spirited (as some of the women were about her), so I can't honestly see why anyone would think she's an asshole. Moody, standoffish, etc.? Sure. But not really an asshole, especially when compared to the likes of Amber/Jami/the twins, who were all unafraid to really go for the jugular with their victims.

One of the first things she said to Chris Harrison last night was something like "I'm a little different." And then throughout the night she went on to tell us she is complex, complicated, misunderstood, it takes many steps to get to know her. Same things she repeated over and over while she was on the show. I think if you need to tell us over and over again how you are so different and complicated and you're so misunderstood by everyone then you're probably the asshole.

[MakeMeLaugh]

If I never see those two nitwit twins again it will be too soon. They should be a little embarrassed that their occupation is twin. I'll throw Amanda in as an honorary triplet. Olivia and Jubilee were definitely ganged up on during the episode, and I really felt bad for Olivia, who was just so sad at the end. Hang in there, girl. Wish we could have a fun women tell all, like most of the guys tell alls are, but insread we get the women who were sent home reacting to stuff as viewers of the edited show. Gah. Shut up mathematician and bird lady. I think this is my least favorite episode every Bachelorette season. Hardly anyone comes off looking good.

[alexa]

I feel like what Jubilee is saying when she says she is complex is that she comes from a completely different background than most, and knows she comes across differently--and that she struggles with her own personality at times (wanting to be more mainstream, but knows she isn't).  Let's face it, not many of the women on the show were orphans in Haiti, and not many of them have been in the armed forces.  Both of those things are influential -- even for those that are able to move forward from experiences like that, they still have an impact.  I guess I just don't feel she is making excuses...I think she is being realistic about what she knows about herself.

 

I felt that Olivia didn't really own up to her comments about the other women.  Even if her behavior in the house could be explained away, they have all seen the episodes now to know what she said when they weren't around.  I think she isn't taking ownership for her personality flaws at all.  

[econ07]

Leah:  "I was upset that you talked to other women about what I said."

 

Ben:  "Who are you again?"

[Bobcatkitten]

I can see how the "full black" comment could be sensitive within the AA community for biracial people. And frankly I think Jubilee could too. That's why she immediately denied having saying it but only later admitted it. She was initially adamant that she would never say that.

[nlkm9]

folks, on the first bachelor season (alex michel) there was a "fully black" woman who made it to final 6....why do they keep rewriting history here?

[Dirtybubble]

Shelia the chicken was the best part of the show.

The thing with Jubilee is to me she was the one making an issue of her being fully black. The whole I'm controversial thing seems like her saying well yeah I said offensive shit, that's just me get over it

[Bobcatkitten]

Also, I fully remember Andy Baldwin whispering 'I love you' to Bevin but I don't remember if he said it to Tessa before the proposal. Anyone? 

Edited March 8, 2016 by scribe95

[laurakaye]

Well, that was 2 hours of second-hand embarrassment.  But this is my first time watching the tell-all so maybe it's par for the course.

 

Chris: "How are you feeling?  Are you sad?  You look sad."  Awkward silence.  "Your eyes look sad.  What's going through your head?  Sadness?"  Awkward pause.  "OOH I SEE A TEAR. So why are you sad?  Do you have the sads yet?"  GEEZ, man!

 

Did the chicken have to be there the whole time?  I found myself more interested in it than the women.

 

The weird camera cuts from audience reactions to what was going on up on stage rarely felt logical.  Very odd editing.

 

The Lace tattoo guy?  Was that supposed to be funny, scary, or awkward?  Or all three?  That was beyond strange.

 

Rewatching Caila's limo meltdown, I felt like she was acting big time, and clearly auditioning for her upcoming role on The Bachlorette.

 

Can't wait for next week to see which one Ben is really in love with.

Edited March 8, 2016 by laurakaye

[Primetimer]

The women are back and they're telling all! Which parts are worth your while?

Read the story

[Vicky8675309]

Yep, I still can't stand the twin and Amanda. Amanda is like the twins but when she got the apology she knew how to act gracious and accept it...still can't stand her and her acting like the champions of moms everywhere. The moms who don't abandon their babies for a reality show for weeks/months at a time are the champions, not this mean girl/famewhore. The twins are bullies and ugly inside.

[JudyObscure]

Sgt. Jubilee, congratulations on your promotion and a big thank you for your service. Let's toss all the other bachelorettes into a barracks for a couple of weeks and see how they do.

They might do just fine. Just as we don't know what sort of "complex," childhood the other women have had -- they may have been through, divorce, disease or abuse -- we don't know how they would do in the military. My husband is career military. Throughout his 25 years managing younger troops, I was working in the private sector, hearing him tell me about his problems. Individual troops who were lazy, unable to get along with others, inept, petty, chronically late, verbally abusive to others, and dishonest. Sadly it was the young women who spent the most time in his office crying about petty slights. They would have been fired if they worked with me in my jobs, but people can't be fired in the military, they just don't make rank in a timely manner. I'm not saying there aren't many wonderful people in the military who do deserve respect and honor, just that it's naïve to think they are all superior to the average civilian. Someone like Lauren H. who seems to be adaptable and good natured, would probably go far.

I think Olivia has suffered enough for her "This reminds me of "Sixteen and Pregnant." In context, Amanda had been talking about the logistical problems of child care -- her mother one day, the father's mother on weekends -- which is a lot of what goes on during the teen mom shows. I didn't think Olivia said anything wrong. It was the twin's gasping over reaction that turned it into a thing and the only truly offensive comment was Amanda saying (paraphrase) "Those girls are all really young and ignorant, that one girl {insert her actual name} was a total mess." That's who should have been on the show asking for an apology. Oliva gave everyone a sincere apology and got nothing back about the personal remarks made about her breath, etc.

I will always remember this as the season of the eyebrows.

[nutty1]

My favorite part of the show was seeing Ben's mom being outraged that he is in love with 2 women! You go Mom!!

My second favorite was seeing Becca refer to Ben as Chris!

[Armchair Critic]

Chris: "How are you feeling?  Are you sad?  You look sad."  Awkward silence.  "Your eyes look sad.  What's going through your head?  Sadness?"  Awkward pause.  "OOH I SEE A TEAR. So why are you sad?  Do you have the sads yet?"  GEEZ, man!

 

Rewatching Caila's limo meltdown, I felt like she was acting big time, and clearly auditioning for her upcoming role on The .

 

Chris has turned into a gossipy hen, and his pushing Caila for some kind of emotion/drama was very transparent. I hate to say it but she is their Bachelorette pick and she is dullsville.

[hyacinth]

So last night I poured myself a glass of wine and then walked over to my computer and managed to spill the glass of wine on my computer and break the wine glass.  

 

Cleaning it all up was less painful than watching that effing show last night.  It made me embarrassed to be a woman.  The rejected women just seemed like petty biatches, and the Olivia pile-on was painful to watch. 

 

Also:  Ben gets less attractive to me every week.  Has he ever said anything interesting or amusing?  

 

Oh, wait, I did enjoy one thing last night:  Ben's mom's face upon hearing that he was leading on two women until he was perfectly clear about his own emotions, the women's emotions be damned!  

Edited March 8, 2016 by hyacinth

[yorklee2]

 

Caila looked different.  Not bad, but I can't put my finger on it.

Her face did seem to be fuller and I also noticed she didn't seem to be wearing any makeup or if she was it was very minimal. She didn't seem to be heavier elsewhere so her fuller face was odd. She didn't seem to be herself to me, appearance or other wise. She seemed very subdued and, can I reiterate what another poster said, that I hate the way CH has to beat it to death with the obvious questions to elicit reactions. I like Caila although I will admit she's a hard one to figure out. Seems she can't win though. I'm sure if she was crying big crocodile tears then she would have been accused of being fake and playing to the cameras. I just hope she comes into her own and feels more comfortable as the b'ette because it does seem at this point that she's TB choice.

 

Regarding Olivia I did feel a little sorry for her last night. She used to make me angry but I realize that she was a in large part a victim of her own delusions and selective editing. The twins and Amanda were the obnoxious 3 musketeers with their exaggerated faces and smirks. I felt somewhat sorry for Emily the way she was eliminated but she took a step back in my opinion and came across as very immature.

Edited March 8, 2016 by yorklee2

[catrice2]

My choice of the word simple was as fortunate as Jubilee and the show's choice of "complex."  I think, however, you got my point. In no way do I think that everyone has to have a sob story to have layers, and I fully acknowledged that I think she took that label on a little too much.  In the end, the women  have to accept the interpretations of what they put out there on national television and as Jubilee said, "roll with the punches."  For some they end up with way more opportunities than they would have gotten without the show, so for some it is worth it.

 

I never got an answer about whether or not whomever had issues with Jubilee tried to talk to her about them privately, especially before this show, or what the women said when they were asked about talking behind her back?  I don't like it when people make racial comments, but I have no problem with telling them that if they are going to do that, they don't need to do it around me, first or second time it happens I shut it down.

 

It should be noted that people from this franchise have taken their own lives.  I don't follow it, nor did I follow those stories, but I can only imagine the comments, etc. that they may receive via social media, or just going out in their community.   For those reasons, I do think it is important to understand that in spite of their actions, Amber, Jami, Jubilee, Olivia, the twins and whomever was caught lying are human, and humans make mistakes.  We are watching for entertainment. It is unfair to judge people in their entirety on small scenes shown on a television show. 

 

I hope they are all able to move beyond whatever unfortunate episodes occurred.   

Edited March 8, 2016 by catrice2

[FamilyVan]

and I really felt bad for Olivia, who was just so sad at the end.

 

 

Oh I saw her as coming across totally phony!  I think she was acting for sympathy.  When she ever said she was bullied as a child I was like "eye roll!".  I think her sad look at the end was acting, it was very incongruous with the Olivia we saw all season, and it seemed desperate.  I wonder if she still thinks she has a shot at Bachelorette.

[mirandroid]

Ugh. When they showed that guy pop up from the audience with a Lace tattoo in the "coming up" snippet, I could have sworn it was Chris Bukowski. My first thought was, "That's about right."

[Swedish Chef]

Shelia the chicken was the best part of the show. /quote]

In related news, Sheila the chicken has just been named the next Bachelorette.

[kira28]

I used to like Jubilee. Now I just found her annoying. They spent too much time on her. Jubilee Ben wasn't the same with you as some of the other women he wanted to spend time with because he just wasn't that into you after awhile. It happens. He liked other women more than you. Get over it. Felt bad for Olivia. They spent too much time on her as well.  Cailia looked like she gained a lot of weight. She was so tiny on the show. She was wearing black like she was trying to hide that she gained weight but her face and her arms and her neck gave it away. I thought she looked terrible. Loved the chicken. Especially when it flew onto Lace's lap lol. Thought Lauren H looked gorgeous.  WTF was Becca wearing? The twins were extremely annoying. This isn't high school sweeties. The bloopers were hilarious!

[yorklee2]

 

I didn't think Olivia said anything wrong. It was the twin's gasping over reaction that turned it into a thing and the only truly offensive comment was Amanda saying (paraphrase) "Those girls are all really young and ignorant, that one girl {insert her actual name} was a total mess." That's who should have been on the show asking for an apology. Oliva gave everyone a sincere apology and got nothing back about the personal

JudyObscure can you refresh my memory on this? I don't remember when this was said. Was it during the episode when Olivia made the teen mom comment?

 

I agree about Amanda. She tried to use her single mom status as a sympathy ploy. I have no sympathy for someone who leaves their small children for weeks on end to go on a dating show. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by yorklee2

[CaughtOnTape]

The twins made me want to reach through the TV and rip their bleach blonde hair out of their heads.  They were so unnecessarily nasty to Olivia.  The one screaming "I CAME TO YOU TWICE!!!" did not make me more sympathetic to her plight.  Fuck lady, who cares how many times you went to her?  You were also a whiny child and made ridiculous comments about her breath.  So forgive me if I don't really care that she dismissed you as a child.  You are one.

 

I laughed...no I don't think you understand...LAUGHED my ass off when Ben shut Leah down when she tried to cop an attitude about him asking Lauren B about what she said.  He all but dropped the mic afterwards.  You lied, babe...own it.  Stop trying to blame other people for why you did it.  No one's buying it.

 

And I don't really care about the bi-racial, full black crap Amber and Jami were spewing.  Had they mentioned it once I probably would have listened but Jami especially seemed to want to grind Jubilee into the ground with it.  At least Amber knows when to shutup and move on.  

 

Amanda kind of pissed me off with her go at Olivia too.  Olivia apologized to her, seemingly quite a few times.  But that wasn't good enough and Amanda kept at it until she got one on national television where she could look like the gracious one and finally accept.  Olivia seemed to own her behavior and understood that how she acted wasn't exactly going to endear people to her.  Yet these women just could not let it go.  She's sad?  Yeah, I would expect that.  She acted like an asshole in front of millions and has probably been thrown into a tailspin of having to completely re-evaluate everything about herself.  Do I feel sympathy for that?  Not really.  But it still sucks for her.  And people on social media are assholes.

[nlkm9]

is anyone shocked that Lace is going on BIP? she went on bachelor live to basically lie about trying to get her act together. ugh,

[Bugs Meany]

Actress Daniella Monet (Victorious) was one of the party crashees. No one else watched that show? I've said too much.

[Madding crowd]

I felt bad for Olivia and thought she was being genuine in her responses. She didn't act  the best, but I also believe producers and/or Ben asked her some of the questions she was answering and she wasn't just volunteering everything. I like Jubilee and wish she would be the next bacherolette. She reminds me of myself at a young age, even though I am white and was not in the military. I think she is very shy, which sometimes can come off as the opposite if you are trying to power though and hide your shyness. I think Jamie and Amber were upset because Ben liked Jubilee and not them-nothing more than that.

 

I wish someone would have asked Ben why he kept insisting Caila be more open and tell him she loved him if he didn't care about her and never would. This always makes me mad-if you are not interested in the woman, quit bugging her to 'be more open." I don't care about or believe Ben is in love with both women and hope the women don't believe it either.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I can see how the "full black" comment could be sensitive within the AA community for biracial people. And frankly I think Jubilee could too. That's why she immediately denied having saying it but only later admitted it. She was initially adamant that she would never say that.

 

Because Jubilee was being attacked by Amber, Jami, and SHUSHANNA (WHO?  Didn't she only speak Russian during her two episode tenure on the show?  And now suddenly she has so much to say?) ON NATIONAL TELEVISION until she would "admit" it.

 

That doesn't make me believe that she said anything of the sort, or if she DID say anything, she probably stated a fact that cannot be denied like "I am the only fully black contestant here" and it was not  meant to be offensive.   I get that Amber and Jami are incredibly insecure women but to me they are the exception, and not the rule.  I still don't even get what these women have against her.  Just let her be because she's always let them be.  (If Jubilee has displayed any 'asshole' behaviour I have still never seen it.)

 

Olivia is one that I can't feel sorry for; she knows exactly the type of person she is and is fully happy about being so.  She doesn't care what I or anyone else has to say about her, only somebody like Ben.  She's a man's woman.  That's fine; that's her prerogative.  I agree that she was really sad, because Ben rejecting her was repeated on the broadcast.  She's sad about that.  She doesn't care one fig what another woman has to say about her.  Fine by me but I don't like her and I feel no sympathy.  And yeah, way too much eye makeup.  She would be more attractive without it.

 

Jubilee on the other hand was broken down by the three idiots I mention above.  I think Jubilee is an incredibly genuine person.  I also don't get comments by people being offended that Jubilee calls herself complex.  So what?  I don't want to be anymore complex than I am.  I don't envy that issue.  It's not humble-bragging or bragging in my eyes.  Again, it's her stating her subjective truth.  I think she uses the "Complex" label as a way to differentiate herself from the other contestants and also as a reason/excuse for why Ben dropped her like a hot potato.  True or not, it helps her in life and I'm fine with it.  Jubilee stating that she is both 1) full black and 2) complex are her own truths and are not meant for others to take personally.  

 

I agree that Caila's face seemed a lot fuller and for once she was showing her genuine emotion which seemed to be shell-shocked sadness about Ben.  She was so quiet during the show I kept forgetting she was there.  Colour me surprised.  I wonder if she simply looked so different because she wasn't smiling , yet on the show she constantly was?    The twins are complete children and nobody needs to pay them any mind.  Amanda was calm and I often find myself liking her.  I don't know what it is.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[ljenkins782]

I still didn't see any tears when Caila cried in the limo.  Did she get the most attention to be the next Bachelorette?  Becca got that last minute moment to talk but was otherwise invisible tonight.

 

 

The editing choices last night make me think that she is the next Bachelorette. They cut to her expressing sympathy to the crying girls and she wasn't part of any of the drama among the girls. 

 

Caila looked different.  Not bad, but I can't put my finger on it.  Was her face just a bit fuller?  It seemed they were setting her up to be the Bachelorette, with the whole "I just want someone to look at me that way" routine.  Again, no.

 

Agreed that her face was a bit fuller, but the main thing I noticed was that her hair looked bad!!! This is the girl who looked like a Pantene commercial even in tropical climates and first thing in the morning, but on a pretaped show with access to stylists, her hair looks bad?? (relatively speaking, anyway.)  Weird. 

 

Also... were the bloopers worth sitting through the entire show on abc.com later? (Or more likely, letting it run in the background until the last 15 minutes?)

 

Becca calling Ben "Chris" was worth it, hilarious.

 

(Why won't autocorrect let me type "Becca" without changing it to "Decca"? WTF?) 

 

If I never see those two nitwit twins again it will be too soon. They should be a little embarrassed that their occupation is twin. I'll throw Amanda in as an honorary triplet. Olivia and Jubilee were definitely ganged up on during the episode, and I really felt bad for Olivia, who was just so sad at the end. Hang in there, girl. Wish we could have a fun women tell all, like most of the guys tell alls are, but insread we get the women who were sent home reacting to stuff as viewers of the edited show.

 

I didn't mind them on the show, but wow they were irritating last night. The shrill rapid fire, simultaneous yipping made them both look like rabid little dogs going after Olivia. Honestly, get over it.

 

The girl got one of the most humiliating edits the show can dish out, that alone should make you feel better if you hate her so much. Plus, she didn't win AND got sent home when Emily got to stay, so why do they still have such an axe to grind? 

 

Oh, wait, I did enjoy one thing last night:  Ben's mom's face upon hearing that he was leading on two women until he was perfectly clear about his own emotions, the women's emotions be damned!

 

I like Ben's mom, I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of that conversation. She and Ben look so, so much alike, his dad's genes didn't seem to make it into the mix...

 

Amanda kind of pissed me off with her go at Olivia too.  Olivia apologized to her, seemingly quite a few times.  But that wasn't good enough and Amanda kept at it until she got one on national television where she could look like the gracious one and finally accept. seemed to own her behavior and understood that how she acted wasn't exactly going to endear people to her.  Yet these women just could not let it go.  She's sad?  Yeah, I would expect that.  She acted like an asshole in front of millions and has probably been thrown into a tailspin of having to completely re-evaluate everything about herself.  Do I feel sympathy for that?  Not really.  But it still sucks for her.  And people on social media are assholes.

 

However confident she might have been before this, there is no way watching this show and her edit didn't affect her. The show really went out of their way to make her look as foolish as possible (which makes me wonder if maybe she wasn't the nicest to the crew/production). 

 

Amanda came off kind of obnoxious to me too, she was openly laughing at Olivia while she was up with Chris H. Although, I can see where she was pretty hurt over the remark that any man should be running the other way from her kids, which was pretty offensive, honestly. 

 

This episode just proves how ripped off the viewers were to have the chicken girl cut so early.

 

She did seem lovely and interesting, but...why on earth was she there? Was it just to bring the chicken? I guess mini horse girl wasn't game for a return. There was another girl there who I think was cut the first night and again, why do we need to see them on this show? 

[DriveInSaturday]

Caila has gained weight and looked like hell. She seemed sick. She looked and acted tired, her hair was dull, and her face was oddly bloated (as if from a medication that causes that directly, or rapid weight gain). I guess if she's not sick, maybe she got Bachelorette and stopped trying so hard? If they cast her, it doesn't bode well for the season if this is the energy level she's bringing to the table. Hope springs eternal for Jojo as 'ette.

 

I think the term "cry-bully" is overused in many inappropriate situations, but it fit what girls were doing to Jubilee and Olivia to a tee. Jami/Amber/Shushanna and Amanda/the twins, respectively, kept laying into Jubilee and Olivia for one-off statements they didn't really mean anything by. Also Jami/Amber ARE half-black and half-white and Amanda WAS a teen mom, so I really don't get how these statements were such a giant deal, even if they resulted in some hurt feelings in the moment. What was really happening was that the mean girls were taking the opportunity to gang up on lone wolf, awkward girls who didn't fit in but still got Ben's attention, under the very thin veneer of playing the victim. I wish Jubilee and Olivia had somehow been friends in the house and teamed up against the basics. And boy, did the the old adage "better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt" apply to Jennifer. I thought she seemed like she might be a cool girl, but she was as catty as many of the rest of the girls. Wow, were the majority of women on stage that evening bitter that Ben was at no point interested in them AND they aren't Bachelor Nation relevant. It was kind of pathetic and embarrassing for me as a viewer.

 

I got renewed respect for Becca and Lauren H during this episode because they were not about tearing other contestants down, and actually seemed pretty understanding when the others were speaking. They seemed to be part of the girl clique on the show, but they didn't carry that pettiness with them. I'm starting to agree with someone a few threads ago that said Lauren H would be good fun as a Bachelorette (although that's never going to happen). As for the "soccer mom" comment, we don't even know what the context for that was. I wrote her off a while ago because of that, but I've come around to thinking that was unfair.

 

The whole Lace situation strikes me as exploitative. Lace knows that being on TV with unlimited alcohol and tons of stress isn't good for her, but they keep dangling BIP in front of her in public with the hopes that she'll give in. I hope she stays home and continues to work on herself even though she makes great TV.

 

Speaking of being exploitative and needing to stay home and do work on themselves, I also side-eyed Chris Harrison for encouraging Jubilee to find her self-worth in "hey, Ben actually liked you for like five minutes, that means you're special!" Nope, nope, nope. To be honest, Ben has sort of outed himself as a low-key "nice guy" jerk, no real prize, and Jubilee is lucky that she got out when she did. She seems clinically depressed (her unrehearsed crying made me worry for her) and was clearly traumatized by even a week of "sharing a boyfriend" with the other girls. Imagine if she had gotten Caila'd (which is the furthest she could have possibly gone)? Even sunny, confident, well-adjusted Caila herself seems pretty shaken and hurt by basically being kept around for the fantasy suite (or seeming to be on national television).

 

And I'm totally team Ben's mom. She was completely horrified by the spiel Ben was selling about being in love with two women. If Ben was inadequately judged on women tell all, it seems that truths will be told by Mom next week.

Edited March 8, 2016 by DriveInSaturday

[Vicky8675309]

why were the twins so hateful to Olivia--they aren't teen moms (not that I think that comment was a big deal). So what if she got Ben first or more time with him. Play the game and speak up and grab Ben for yourself...too late. Ben could have said no when she interrupted for time with him in the group setting. One of the twins could have grabbed him first. WTF

I never liked the twins and disliked them/Emily even more when she went crying to Ben about the Teen Mom comment (it wasn't about her or to her). Plus she got a phone call to her sister. I also disliked Amanda from the onset....after Juelia (sp?) last season, I was "traumatized" (figuratively) by her

[yorklee2]

 

I agree that Caila's face seemed a lot fuller and for once she was showing her genuine emotion which seemed to be shell-shocked sadness about Ben.  She was so quiet during the show I kept forgetting she was there.  Colour me surprised.  I wonder if she simply looked so different because she wasn't smiling , yet on the show she constantly was?

To this and other comments about Caila's appearance I agree. She just seemed so unlike her usual upbeat, smiling self that we saw on the show. The fact that her makeup, hair, and general appearance wasn't up to par just struck me as someone who has been hurt and doesn't care anymore. I think Ben's rejection really did a number on her. Some may say she was trying to play a victim but it seemed to me as if she were more so numb and didn't realize/care what others thought of her.

[Allie Sandra]

Maybe, Caila is pregnant...

[BellaLugosi]

If I never see those two nitwit twins again it will be too soon. They should be a little embarrassed that their occupation is twin. I'll throw Amanda in as an honorary triplet. Olivia and Jubilee were definitely ganged up on during the episode, and I really felt bad for Olivia, who was just so sad at the end. Hang in there, girl. 

 

They were making faces like they were sucking on lemons the whole time. Get over it! And all the looks between them and Amanda. I bet they have been in constant contact since they were kicked off and talk about nothing but Olivia.

 

Our bullying is besides the point, we're talking about Olivia now! Olivia seems 20 years or more older than then in maturity. And she got no apologies. 

 

 

I can see how the "full black" comment could be sensitive within the AA community for biracial people. And frankly I think Jubilee could too. That's why she immediately denied having saying it but only later admitted it. She was initially adamant that she would never say that.

 

I think she denied saying she was the only "real black woman" which is entirely different than "fully black woman". If she says real, it's implying they aren't and saying full is just a fact. She admitted that she said fully black. 

 

Sick of the audience reactions too. It seems so fake, just to get on camera. 

 

Ben is so bland. They should all consider themselves lucky to have gotten out. 

[leighdear]

Chances are very good the twins will be on "Bachelor in Paradise 3".  They seem tailor-made for that show, and I'm betting their contracts were signed the second Emily got booted by Ben. 

[TomGirl]

"In related news, Sheila the chicken has just been named the next Bachelorette."

Swedish Chef, thank you for that! I can see the rooster auditions now!

[JudyObscure]

Also Jami/Amber ARE half-black and half-white and Amanda WAS a teen mom, so I really don't get how these statements were such a giant deal, even if they resulted in some hurt feelings in the moment. What was really happening was that the mean girls were taking the opportunity to gang up on lone wolf, awkward girls who didn't fit in but still got Ben's attention, under the very thin veneer of playing the victim.

I think Jami and Amber were depicted as mean girls on the show with Jubilee as the victim. Last night, they were trying to explain that, while they were shown as disliking Jubilee, they had reason to because they felt Jubilee had "started it." More than a few girls nodded or agreed when they said that Jubilee had been saying, several times, that she was, "Going to go further than any fully black girl ever had before." Aside from anything else, that was bragging and an indication that she was just there to make TV history and not for Ben. She was also telling Amber that, although she had gone far on the show, to the point of being asked back twice and people knowing her name, that her record didn't really count.

I'm guessing Amber and Jami have had a lot of hurt in their lives because of repeatedly feeling that they either weren't white enough or weren't black enough. Jubilee was judging them by their skin color and increasing a consciousness of skin color that we should be trying to lose, not accentuating.

The very phrase, "half black and half white," is offensive to me. What does that even mean? It's like old people predicting doom and gloom to interracial couples because their children, "wont be black or white." Come on! It's just pigment in a person with a hundred other genetic traits. This is America, very few people in this country don't have a drop of at least two races whether it be, Black, Cherokee, Asian, White, or Hispanic. Do we need to do an ancestral search and measure out the percentages on everyone we meet? Jubilee herself is not as dark as natives of Africa so I expect she might have a white ancestor in her Haitian family tree.

[sidekickgirl]

So many of the women irritated me tonight, I wouldn't know where to begin.  I will say that there is not chance that those harpy twins won't be in Paradise. And I'd like them to go to the well for a new Bachelorette... not Caila.  She is bland and I don't think she'd be very interesting to watch as the lead.  I still want her hair (even the hair she was sporting last night).    Perhaps they can look back to other past contestants beyond this season to find someone eligible. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

The very phrase, "half black and half white," is offensive to me. What does that even mean? It's like old people predicting doom and gloom to interracial couples because their children, "wont be black or white." Come on! It's just pigment in a person with a hundred other genetic traits. This is America, very few people in this country don't have a drop of at least two races whether it be, Black, Cherokee, Asian, White, or Hispanic. Do we need to do an ancestral search and measure out the percentages on everyone we meet? Jubilee herself is not as dark as natives of Africa so I expect she might have a white ancestor in her Haitian family tree.

 

When you're of an ambiguous racial makeup to some people you spend a lot of your life telling people what your race is.  Some people are demanding, almost aggressively demanding, asking exactly where your parents come from and what racial makeup you are. There are questions after questions for some of us.  Some people don't have the privilege of being able to use a one or two word shut-down answer. So you learn to identify yourself accordingly in a way to satisfy those people.  You develop a satisfactory short hand.  You come up with a simple and/or mathematical equation that will shut these people up.    It is really not meant to offend you.  

Edited March 8, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[kia112]

DO people know Amber's name, though? I'm pretty sure BEN didn't even know who she was when she walked in night 1.

I think they were salty because no one cares about them. The women from this season tweet with each other constantly -- Jubilee included. No one's coming for Amber. Amber tried to get in on the fun after episode 3, tweeting Jubilee, saying something to make it seem like their spat was just a one time thing and that it blew over by the next day because they were cool. No response from Jubilee. But if I'm to go by what Amber talked about last night…yeah. Whatever. Her stunt backfired (again).

[Alapaki]

At this point, when it comes to the WTAs and the ATFRs, I pretty much just hate-watch.  So, having given myself a half-day to decompress:

 

Olivia:  I think she was treated like shit last night.  That was just a mean-girl, harpy feeding frenzy.  IIRC, nearly all of her snark was shown in Confessionals and not in direct confrontations in the house (except for the Teen Mom comment, which I still don't think was actually inappropriate).  If TPTB wanted to bus her, and she'd been talking shit in the house, I think we would have seen it.  Oh, and her hair was on point last night.

 

Twins: Those two were playing hard for BiP, but ended up just coming across as assholes.  Being twins only gets you so far, and it doesn't help when it simply means that you're twice the pain-in-the-ass.  I swear, if these two ever turn up strangled by two wads of Double-Mint Gum, you guys don't know me!

 

Amanda: Fuck you!  If you can't recognize that your situation is objectively fucked-up for both you and your kids, then you're an awful mother.  And how much were "you kids your jam" when you dumped them on your parents to go whoring for Mike Fleiss?  And with mothers like you in the world, Fleiss will never run out of contestants for this franchise.

 

Jubilee: Much like George Costanza when Elaine thought her boyfriend was black, "I don't think I should be talking about this."

 

Final thought: Kudos to whomever in production arranges the seating assignment.  The cleavage and tits behind the shoulders of the women in the front row were much more compelling than anything those women were actually saying.

[saber5055]

After reading all these posts, I read this in the recap post ...

The women are back and they're telling all!

 

as "The women are black ..." I guess either sentence works.

 

While I was looking forward to WTA, I had to turn the channel so many times because I just couldn't with all the mean girl "You said this," "But you did this first" and yada yada ad infinium. Like any of that matters. Ben, you dodged a whole lot of bullets by sending those harpy shrews home. 

 

Some appeared to be auditioning as strippers by what they were(n't) wearing, and some of the boobage needed its own name/city/state identifiers shown on screen. And Amanda, just because you managed to cough out a couple of kids, that doesn't make you some special snowflake.

 

Meanwhile, I continue to like my girl Jubilee. Good on you, girl, and all your complexity.

 

So Lace, admittedly screwed up, gets invited to BIP but not Olivia? WTH, show? It's for sure BIP only wants the most "dramatic" (translation: crazy) people on that mess of a show. Not that we didn't know that already. Olivia doesn't qualify?

 

I felt sorry for the chicken. But WTH was up with the mini horse at the end? That's not the one some b-ette brought to the mansion. That segment made me feel sorry for the horse. Chicken AND horse ... so sorry you got involved in this.

 

HILAR-ious that now Ben is "The Best Bachelor EVER." Poor Sean,  you've been dethroned. Although Sean's picture still appears as the graphic for "The Bachelor" in my Zap2It tv schedule. So there's that. (Buh-bye, Chris Soules.)

 

ETA: Alapaki, your post that got here the same time as mine is GOLD. You've read my mind and expressed it so much better than I did. A vase of roses and a love poem will be delivered to your front door later today.

Edited March 8, 2016 by saber5055

[Shibori]

My favorite was one of the twins complaining that someone said she dressed like a slut...while wearing a dress cut open from neck to navel. 

[backformore]

It was hilarious how Chris didn't want the tattoo guy to touch Lace "Keep your distance. Don't actually touch her! We need better security"

I don't buy it for a minute. Fake tattoo, fake guy who was an obvious plant, fake concern that he was a creepy stalker.

They told him to get close to her for a photo, then fake being alarmed. "Don't TOUCH her!"

[Alapaki]

I don't buy it for a minute. Fake tattoo, fake guy who was an obvious plant, fake concern that he was a creepy stalker.

They told him to get close to her for a photo, then fake being alarmed. "Don't TOUCH her!"

 

You're 100% correct.  In however-many-seasons of Bachelor and Bachelorette, have we ever seen an audience member allowed to holler out, let alone rush the stage?  If that was real, that guy would've been on the ground before he got to the bottom of the steps.  

[Alapaki]

I think the term "cry-bully" is overused in many inappropriate situations, but it fit what girls were doing to Jubilee and Olivia to a tee. Jami/Amber/Shushanna and Amanda/the twins, respectively, kept laying into Jubilee and Olivia for one-off statements they didn't really mean anything by. Also Jami/Amber ARE half-black and half-white and Amanda WAS a teen mom, so I really don't get how these statements were such a giant deal, even if they resulted in some hurt feelings in the moment. What was really happening was that the mean girls were taking the opportunity to gang up on lone wolf, awkward girls who didn't fit in but still got Ben's attention, under the very thin veneer of playing the victim.

 

 

I agree with a lot of this.  I would only add that Chris Harrison directly aided and abetting this by remaining silent and allowing the pile on while Jubilee and Olivia were "in the hot seat".  Especially because in prior seasons when an obvious Producer-favorite has been in that situation, he's jumped in immediately to protect them.

[hyacinth]

Alapaki:

 

thank you for this:

 

I swear, if these two ever turn up strangled by two wads of Double-Mint Gum, you guys don't know me!

And this: 

 

Amanda: Fuck you!  If you can't recognize that your situation is objectively fucked-up for both you and your kids, then you're an awful mother.  And how much were "you kids your jam" when you dumped them on your parents to go whoring for Mike Fleiss?

[yorklee2]

 

She did seem lovely and interesting, but...why on earth was she there? Was it just to bring the chicken? I guess mini horse girl wasn't game for a return. There was another girl there who I think was cut the first night and again, why do we need to see them on this show?

Agreed. I looked on the ABC website and a total of 9 women from episodes 1-3 weren't there. There was:

 

1)Laura- the redhead who was eliminated on first episode

2)Breanne- the self proclaimed gluten-free nazi

3)Mandy- the crazy dentist

4)LB- the one who self eliminated

5)Samantha- the scratchy voiced attorney who smelled "sour" in the ridiculous love lab

6)Jackie- the only thing I remember her for is she had a hard time bobbing for apples because Ben was right in her face heckling her

7)Jessica- I remember her as being cute and wondering why Ben eliminated her on the first night

8)Lauren R- don't remember much except I think she was the one who told Ben she had been stalking him on social media

9)Maegan- the pony lady

 

Not that I blame any of them. The early cast offs (with some exceptions) rarely bring anything to the table and if I were them I would hate for people to see me and think, "who is she".

Edited March 8, 2016 by yorklee2

[pitchy]

And yes, I still think he's  a douchenozzle for screwing both of them over, but grudgingly picking one to bestow his proposal on.  Nice guy, my ass.  And his lady better not ever take her eyes off of him for a minute.  He obviously likes shiny things and changes his mind quicker than a 4 year-old on a sugar high.  

 

Leigh?, when Ben said that he'd marry his fiance tomorrow if he could, I thought maybe she's saying to wait because she's SEEN him in action with the other gals now.  He "compartmentalizes" (he explains, or brags)  and therefore can justify how cozy he can get with so many of the other women without needing to think about the  one (or two) he "loves" because they don't matter when they're outside his current compartment, but she would liikely react the way most of us do.  It's disquieting how well he does it.

 

I do realize that they're not allowed to marry tomorrow, for purposes of the show, but they could do a private one first :-) but I'd tell her to wait a bit.

Edited March 9, 2016 by pitchy

[JudyObscure]

Some people don't have the privilege of being able to use a one or two word shut-down answer. So you learn to identify yourself accordingly in a way to satisfy those people.  You develop a satisfactory short hand.  You come up with a simple and/or mathematical equation that will shut these people up.    It is really not meant to offend you.

Oh there's the "p" word, I forgot I wasn't supposed to speak, but since I've started; I wasn't really offended for myself but for Amber and Jami who I think have the right to consider themselves whatever they want.  If being black is their truth, then who is Jubilee to tell them they don't measure up to her paper bag test.