S03.E12: Last Chance At Romance

[okerry]

Also, I definitely don't think that David is "so obviously unattractive." His looks are fine.

 

I was trying to be a bit sarcastic there, since that's what Ashley thought and apparently thought everybody else would think, too, but rather failed. :)

[cassabox]

I think Neil was so caught up in being friends with Sam, it's weird for him to start being more affectionate towards Sam. And her ways of flirting was interpreted as being friendly to Neil. I just thought it was funny he was confused by her reaction during the video chat.

Like in the Unfiltered interview last week, Neil knew his place when Sam reacted negatively with his accidental kiss on the shoulder

I don't see why some people think the change in Sam of her falling for Neil is fake.. I think since the meeting with Dr Cilona, Sam has mentioned every week that she is being more comfortable with Neil and that Neil is growing on her.

Maybe they did do something that Neil liked to do during the Savanah trip, but it didn't make the cut to tv..

Edited February 17, 2016 by cassabox

[stuckin60s]

Two things.   Last night Tres did tell Vanessa that he wanted them to live together, he just didn't think it was prudent that they give up their apartments too soon.

 

I think Davids issues with his dad have been magnified and led by his mother.  she hasn't been able to let go.  She even brought pictures and stuff to Davids and Ashleys house on Fathers Day

[MsPH]

Sam is contradicting herself like nobody's business! For weeks now she's been calling Neil out on being fake, telling him to be real like it's her mission in life to make him as blunt and inconsiderate as she is herself. Then Neil answers honestly that no, he doesn't miss that pain in his ass after a whopping day apart, and suddenly she's all "this was your one chance to say something nice to me, I'm so hurt now blah blah". This after acknowledging that at least he was honest. So now you don't want his honesty? Suddenly he needs to tell you what you want to hear instead of the truth? Make up your damn mind already, Sam! It's all about what she wants, the rest is just excuses. I don't even think what Neil said was mean, I get him. I don't miss people easily either. No way would I miss anyone after a day unless I'd just fallen in love with them and was still in that state of temporary insanity. Someone like Sam? I'd be elated to be rid of them!

 

I don't think Tres and Vanessa should be giving up their apartments anytime soon, let alone buying a new one together. She still doesn't trust him at all, so it's not even a real relationship yet, let alone a marriage. You can't put the cart before the horse. I mean obviously this show does, but no reason they should keep doing it after the filming is over. They should try to build trust and fall in love first before making any major financial decisions. If Tres really likes her then I don't see how living apart/staying at each other's places is a problem. That's how normal relationships progress, people aren't moving in together right away. If not owning a house together is their downfall then boy, were they never right for each other! Seriously, if they grow apart because they aren't living under the same roof permanently then it never would've worked in the first place. I still have my doubts about Tres, but I don't get her attitude. It's like she's trying to force them into this picture perfect marriage, when they barely know each other and she can't even look him in the eye when they talk. And she keeps laughing when someone asks them how it's been going! He looked really annoyed with that when they were on that horse and even made some comment about it. It's like she never thinks Tres is taking the marriage seriously enough, yet she's the one acting like it's a big joke.

 

Ashley and David are just counting down the days. Can't believe Ashley's "romantic" gift. An apron? David deserves an Oscar for that enthusiastic reaction. Ashley didn't seem happy at all with what she got. She was probably hoping for some expensive jewellery, so she'd at least have something to take away from this mess. Good on David for not giving her anything tangible! 

[amitville]

Can I say something about David's grief?

I lost most of my family in a short space of time... my dad, grandmother, uncle, aunt and cousin. Within months. But the hardest loss was my daughter. She has been gone seven years.

I doubt David said "hey let's film me at the cemetery with dad so I can cry" so I am sure it was producer driven. Grief demands to be felt and it will show up at the most unlikely time and places. Yes, beer is a tradition. Lots of odd things are traditions. Like picnics and drinking parties at the cemeteries.

I really hate it when people tell grieving people how to grieve when they themselves are not grieving. You know?

And SuzyLee, this is not directed at you- I have seen many people online mention David's grief with his Dad and I did not think it was so odd... just saying. ;-)

Jellybeans ((((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))))))))

[princelina]

WRT David's grief - I think that part of being cast for reality TV is having a Sob Story that production can endlessly exploit.  Trust issues and abandonment (Jaime, Jason, Tres, Vanessa), dead parents, siblings and grandparents (Jason, Ryan D, Basement, David), weird attachments to your facial hair (Neil and Ashley).  We get tired of hearing them belabored over and over again, but production thinks they are fascinating!  (For proof, see Jeff Probst waxing eloquently about the Blood vs. Water seasons of Survivor :)

[Jellybeans]

I don't think grief stories are fascinating so production is wrong. They are simply stories. I wish they would let it be.

It is something they did not have to film in David's case. And the scene where he "lost" it could have been cut out. I am sure they had plenty of footage showing Ashley ignoring David. Or David trying to save his "marriage". LOL.

[CaptainCranky]

I think most of you must be sadomasochistic to keep watching this crap. I can come on here and find out in 5 minutes or less I made a wise choice to abandon this show.

 

Thank you for you insight, time spent watching this show and your comments giving me affirmation that I'm not missing a freaking thing.

[Evil Queen]

I don't think grief stories are fascinating so production is wrong. They are simply stories. I wish they would let it be.

It is something they did not have to film in David's case. And the scene where he "lost" it could have been cut out. I am sure they had plenty of footage showing Ashley ignoring David. Or David trying to save his "marriage". LOL.

 

Lots of hugs Jellybeans on all you had to deal with in a short time frame. I have lost family but the closest together would be a year apart. That was different grandparents. I have not gone back to any family grave myself either. Some how both my mom and dad's side of the family have had members buried in the same place. Mind you this is in Los Angels so its not like a small town. Yet each time I had gone there for a funeral I never visited the other ones. Only time was the last member I lost and that was my Grandma. She was buried by my Grandpa (her husband). I don't think I could handle going to those spots myself. I'd be a wreck. I lost my first family member that I can remember when I was in jr high but have lovely memories of my Great Aunt and would be crying there if I went. For me I lost my Grandma about 7 yrs ago and I still miss her. I have shed a few tears years later over her being gone. I just feel there are some people we hold closer to us then others though and get sad about leaving us like that. Now with David I just think at least one of those issues on screen might have been producer driven (Father's Day) and the visit to the grave he should have asked them to let him go alone IMO. I agree that the sob stories are not something I want to see either. It doesn't offer alot most the time but comes off as more a pity me most the times. Which is why I hate it when shows like American Idol and Dancing with the Stars use that stuff. 

  Now for the whole living arrangement thing with Vanessa and Tres....I was thinking as I read some comments about one or both giving up their places and costs/areas/etc. Now I know where I live we rent a townhouse (there is only so many mixed in here with a ton more of apartments in our complex). So with what we have its harder to come by in our area. My husband told me one day that it showed one not long ago being rented out at a starting price of what we pay for rent after 2 yrs of being here. So with that, I am not sure how rent is or the amount of rentals in Atlanta but if its even anything like where we are I can understand about not wanting to just up and leave what you have but instead living in one person's place for whatever set about of time and then the other person's for set about of time as well. IF neither place is what works finding something mutual further down the line once they know they want to keep going and working on making the marriage work. Otherwise if rent is now higher for similar places they have or just in general for the area then what they each pay now or just hard to get a decent place even than it does seem a bit much to let their places go when they aren't sure yet on the future. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by Evil Queen

[allthelight]

Tres seems fine to me and he seems ready enough for marriage. However, I'm not sure he is ready for marriage with Vanessa. Tres is very laid-back and very easing-going. That doesn't rule him out as good marriage material - I love guys like this. However, Vanessa is not like that and with her insecurity she's turned these weeks into hard work. I do think he wants marriage, but he doesn't want it at any rate, which is fine by me. Like, if this marriage is going to be a nightmare for him, he won't stick it through (nor should he). Vanessa is unable to deal with this easy-going attitude. I can see where she is coming from but at the same time she shouldn't forget he's not some Amazon perfect husband. He's just a stranger and whether they work out or not remains to be seen. I wouldn't give up my leases either and it wouldn't mean I'm not ready for marriage - it just means if it doesn't work out (which, let's face it, is a possibility), I want to have something to fall back upon. In a real marriage, this might be unnecessary but this is not a normal marriage. 

[SnarkKitty]

Sam & Neil. Dammit they got me. I'm kinda rooting for these two crazy kids. I finally know why they were matched - she loves anything with owls on it, and Neil looks like an owl.

[Zeebreezy]

Looooonnngggg time lurker so hello everyone (waves hi) i just wanted to add my two cents abt the couples.

Tres and Vanessa - I also dont see the swarmy guy that many of you see in regards to Tres. I see a laid back guy that realizes that Vanessa is A LOT of work. Everyone says she should just get help for her issues. But honestly, how many people do? Vanessa knows shes has issues but doesnt know how to fix it, and most likely will continue to make the same mistakes with men because she views herself as the victim and its everyone else fault and not hers. Tres seems to be like most men that will change his ways when he meets the right woman. He probably thought Vanessa could be the one but as time goes on, he is just feeling exhausted by her and her needs.

Ashley and David- I know its been discussed but if I wasnt attracted to a guy, I couldnt fake it either. I dont think I would be rude but i've been in similar situations where if you're nice to the guy in any way they run with it. And from what we've seen from David he would run with it. Start feeling that Ashley was falling in love with him. And if he says im going to fight for " my marriage" and "my wife" ONE MORE TIME..... She is sooooo not into him. Its really embarrassing to watch. When I watched the wedding episode and saw how her face fell instantly when she laid eyes on him from down the aisle, I knew this wasnt going to go well. Also, he really needs to seek counseling for still being this emotional over the death of his father.

Neil and Sam- she is a self centered b***h!! And Neil is just awkward and I want to sneak a note to him asking him to blink twice if he wants help being rescued from Sam and all her crazy.

I hope all my ramblings made sense.

[sarkygal]

Neil and Sam- she is a self centered b***h!! And Neil is just awkward and I want to sneak a note to him asking him to blink twice if he wants help being rescued from Sam and all her crazy.

 

 

I felt the same way, especially in their awkward fishing scene where they both seemed to be stumbling over their scripted lines.

 

Davis & Ashley just need to end this farce now. I am over David parroting whatever cliche the experts have fed him with to save a marriage where Ashley's either falling off the bed or couch to avoid touching him.

 

I finally saw Tres getting irritated with Vanessa. I think they have very different approaches to love and it shows. Tres has been trying to court Vanessa. Some folks see it as smarmy salesman hustle, but I think he wanted to get to know her and HOPED to fall in love. Vanessa assumed they HAVE to fall in love. Now, there might be some editing hijinks showing Vanessa as insecure and increasingly mopey, but I still say this is their fundamental problem. Decision day for Vanessa = we're in love. Decision day for Tres = I could fall in love with this woman. When you're that far ahead in feelings and romantic maturity from your partner, you feel even more insecure because the instant reciprocation isn't there and you start  insulating against heartbreak(sabotage). I agree that Tres now feels staying with Vanessa might just be too much work.

Edited February 18, 2016 by sarkygal

[MKLife]

Am I the only one that was totally annoyed by Nola being all in Tres face when he was dealing with the allergic reaction?

[CPA Carol]

I am re watching now. Dr Pepper looks annoyed as hell at both David and Ashley. She wasn't buying David's story ( me neither) but Dr Pepper is well aware that Ashley has put zero effort into the marriage. Both Ashley and David just sat there with blank faces while she was talking. They are both moving on. David is talking a good game but it's over.

[mythoughtis]

Sam and Neil.  I think he is growing on her - not sure the opposite is true.  However, I think they could make it work - it would be a lot of work, but I do think they could get there.  They are so quirky though and have such trouble recognizing when the other person is joking or mad or sad.   I can see why Neil wasn't missing Sam - it had been one day, ONE, but he should have been enough on the ball to tell a white lie.  On the other hand, I think he was touched when she was hurt, and he tried to make it up to her.  As to the fishing, he said HE picked the activity, not Sam, so you can't blame Sam for that. 

 

David and Ashly - lost cause.  She never tried.  The experts are well aware of that - go over to the spoilers topic if you want to know more about that.  If she had tried, she might have been amazed because they actually do seem a good fit. 

 

Tres and Vanessa - I can't blame him for not wanting to move forward with BUYING a house when they haven't even reached decision day yet.  They should wait a couple years to buy a home.   The first year of marriage is hard enough when you know each other, lots of marriages fail in that first year or two.  Why bring home ownership into it?   We don't know how long the leases are on either of their places, but I can see holding on to them for a while - especially if they really can't easily get out of the lease without paying a penalty anyway.  Some big city apartment complexes charge you a lot of money to break your lease.  Vanessa needs to quit trying to plan their entire life in the first six weeks of marriage.

[Setlist]

And to think. The only thing Neil had to do to win a place in Sam's cold heart was to buy her some junky trinkets.

I will admit, that magnet was kind of cool.

[LynnM]

I think Tres and Vanessa look great together and they obviously find each other attractive but they just don't seem engaged with each other in the same way that Jason and Cortney were right from the beginning. I can't read them. If they don't stay together I don't think either of them will be at fault. They may just not be right for each other.

I find it very frustrating to watch David and Ashley. As everyone has pointed out, she has been disengaged from the beginning. If there is no chemistry between them, there can't be a happy marriage but sometimes attraction grows as you get to know someone and she has not allowed for that. I also find it very strange that she is so prim and proper (bachelorette party, no kissing etc.) and yet she is willing to marry a stranger. Did none of this come out in the interviews?

As for Sam and Neil, I don't dislike her like most do. I think that she is her own worst enemy but there is a better person underneath all that and I am hoping Neil can bring that out. They are both quirky and neither would appeal to everyone but I think that once they understand each other better, they could wind up having a happy marriage.

[grumpypanda]

Nothing to see here.

Edited February 18, 2016 by grumpypanda

[Madding crowd]

I don't hate Sam and I think she is trying. I felt she was being genuine in saying she is finding Neil attractive and warming up to him. I know some people are upset because she should have felt like that from day one; but you feel what you feel. Neil is odd looking, came into the honeymoon suite in a onesie, and generally is passive aggressive as hell. Sam has her own faults. In a marriage where you are paired with a stranger, the best you can do is to get the know the person. I am rooting for them. I also heard Neil say he wanted to go fishing and I'm guessing the producers wanted some sort of outdoor activity for the couples. Maybe Neil usually reads or goes running by himself? Who knows.

 

David is beginning to seem very delusional to me and I can only think that both he and Ashley were told by producers to at least pretend something was going on until decision day. Ashley seemed different this episode, but I would guess she was ordered to be that way.

 

Regarding Tres and Vanessa: I like both of them a lot and would easily be friends with either. I think Vanessa was pleasantly surprised that she found Tres handsome and liked his personality, and went from that to thinking they were a regular married couple rather a couple of strangers, The fact that they had sex on their honeymoon didn't help matters. If you have sex with a stranger in regular life, you take a chance on never seeing that person again (or never wanting to). If you are married, you are in a different boat. I think Tres was intrigued at the idea of being matched up by an expert, found Vanessa beautiful and she seems friendly and nice. As time wen on through, her insecurities and wanting to control him began to wear on him. His life has changed too drastically and Vanessa won't cut him any slack. I don't think she is mean spirited, just has no clue on how to make a marriage work. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Madding crowd

[Nffftshewasgone]

Just curious since I haven't watched all the episodes so far: Has Vanessa done anything nice/special for Tres besides the obvious Pinterest-esque, fairly meaningless gift basket?

[Sowkkat]

Sorry! Wrong board!

Edited February 18, 2016 by Sowkkat

[Jack Sampson]

Just curious since I haven't watched all the episodes so far: Has Vanessa done anything nice/special for Tres besides the obvious Pinterest-esque, fairly meaningless gift basket?

She cooked 4 times and she's had sex with him a few times. That's not much but it's more than the others.

[Nffftshewasgone]

Why is it always the guys bringing flowers and gifts home? I don't know if this says something about the contestants, the show, or our society. Do people really think, 1) that women are wooed so easily, or, 2) that men don't like gifts? I mean, I probably wouldn't give my husband flowers and chocolates, but he's crazy about licorice and Star Wars

[izabella]

I laughed when Neil told Sam he didn't miss her and she was surprised.  Why would he miss her?  He's probably relieved he doesn't have to go to her condo that day and watch her slurp soup again.  And, sugar gliders.  I imagine her place smells.  That's why the wax melts.  And she just about called him a pussy a few times, so she can shut up about being all hurt that he told her he didn't miss her.  Remember when you told Neil you wouldn't touch him because his hands were clammy?  He was just being honest like that, Sam.

 

Vanessa not only wanted instant marriage, she wanted instant love.  She really expected they'd give up their apartments to move in together after this?  Sorry, but no.  I wouldn't give up my place to move in with a stranger even if we did get married on a tv show.  I would live in my place, and he in his, and we would date and get to know each other under more normal circumstances. 

 

Whatever Ashley.

 

I feel like none of these women have any sense of fun.

Why is it always the guys bringing flowers and gifts home? I don't know if this says something about the contestants, the show, or our society. Do people really think, 1) that women are wooed so easily, or, 2) that men don't like gifts? I mean, I probably wouldn't give my husband flowers and chocolates, but he's crazy about licorice and Star Wars

 

You must be forgetting the squashed, stale cupcake Ashley pulled out from the bottom of her backpack to give to David.

[sleekandchic]

Just curious since I haven't watched all the episodes so far: Has Vanessa done anything nice/special for Tres besides the obvious Pinterest-esque, fairly meaningless gift basket?

She cooked 4 times and she's had sex with him a few times. That's not much but it's more than the others.

Yeah, soon after they returned from the honeymoon, Vanessa planned and hosted a Father's Day bbq for Tres's dad, his brother and sis, and V's sis too. The day before, after T had left for work, Vanessa and her sis waited for delivery of furniture to the new home, placed and decorated, then prepared the spread for the next day's party. To me, it looked like V prepared a combo of her own homemade food with some catered eats too.

As Jack S mentioned, Vanessa has cooked meals and has tried to foster a physically intimate relationship with Tres.

I've noticed also that of all three couples, V and T seem to be the only couple who moved in together and tried to set up an authentic household. Their closets and bureaus are full, for example. And they eat off real plates and cutlery. I tend to think those type of things are Vanessa's personal touch.

Vanessa has her issues, and I don't believe she is emotionally mature enough for marriage yet. I think she needs to get in touch with her own true self and needs before inviting another person, who will always have his own issues, into her orbit. But she has TRIED to make this meshuga experiment work with her participation in everyday life.

Tres's gifts and getaways seem sweet but superficial to me, and, possibly, mostly producer-driven. He isn't ready for a permanent grown-up commitment either, imo.

Two decent people, neither ready for the reality of married life, imo.

[Snarklepuss]

I don't think Tres and Vanessa should be giving up their apartments anytime soon, let alone buying a new one together. She still doesn't trust him at all, so it's not even a real relationship yet, let alone a marriage. You can't put the cart before the horse. I mean obviously this show does, but no reason they should keep doing it after the filming is over. They should try to build trust and fall in love first before making any major financial decisions. If Tres really likes her then I don't see how living apart/staying at each other's places is a problem. That's how normal relationships progress, people aren't moving in together right away. If not owning a house together is their downfall then boy, were they never right for each other! Seriously, if they grow apart because they aren't living under the same roof permanently then it never would've worked in the first place.

 

I actually agree with you 100% and I have said many times that this show tries to put the cart before the horse by marrying people before they're ready to be married to each other.  But if that's true of Tres and Vanessa they shouldn't BE married at this point let alone buying a house together. They should realize that and agree to just date each other if they really like each other because that's where they're at right now.  I have no problem with them not giving up their apartments if they're not married.  But if they truly are married and making a real marital commitment to each other they need to be ready to give up their old apartments and move in together.  If they're not, they aren't ready for marriage, IMHO.  I think Tres is aware that they're not ready based on his comments about this not being a "normal" marriage, but Vanessa wants to push them into being ready because she wanted certainty and a sure thing.  She doesn't want to go through the uncertainty of just dating Tres because she already is concerned about how into her he really is and worries that she'll just end up getting hurt.  I don't blame her on that but that's life.  This show didn't do Vanessa any service by setting up her hopes and expectations beyond reality.  Tres may actually come around in time but is she willing to take a few steps back and just date him to see where it goes?  I don't think she wants to take that risk.  She wants him to be ready NOW so she doesn't have to deal with the uncertainty.  But that's not fair either.  Vanessa herself is trying to put the cart before the horse.  And I think Tres was trying to appease her and find a "medium happy" by suggesting they live together but hold on to their old apartments.  I don't think that's the best solution either.  The problem as I see it is that they both should be aware of the fact that they're not ready for marriage, get a divorce and just date.  But I don't think Vanessa could handle that.  She went on this show because she wanted a husband, not a boyfriend.  So it would be hard for her to face what would look to her like going backwards.  This show may actually screw up what might have turned out to be a good relationship by setting up expectations that can't be met in 6 weeks.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Koda1969]

My DVR, for some reason, thought this episode was a re-run so it didn't record. Being that this show is just draaaaggging on, I wasn't too upset by that. But, while working (I work from home) I decided to pull up the episode and watch it online while doing my normal work stuff. So, the good thing was that I wasn't really "paying attention" 100% hehe So, here's my thoughts:

 

Tres/Vanessa - As has been said over and over, the woman has issues. I think the biggest issue, is that she has a very specific idea of what a relationship and marriage should be and what a man needs to be like. So, if she isn't getting it, she's pouting or dredging up triggers to set her off and feel bad. As for Tres, is he a player? I honestly can't say yes or no. But, what I feel..is that because Vanessa is so damn specific in what she expects, that he feels pressured to either be something he's not, or that she is trying to force him to change. I think human nature tends to suggest that if we try to force someone to behave a certain way, odds are that person will rebel or push back..or even pull back. I know that I don't like being told what to do, or how to be. Again, is Tres a player..could be. But I think Vanessa is trying to force too much on him, too soon. This goes back to the whole L-word thing. She wants him to be some movie version of a man, where he professes his immediate undying love. Being that rarely exists in healthier relationships, she's just pushing him away (IMHO).

 

David/Ashley - I just won't bother commenting, as what everyone else has said is already out there. As far as David and the grieving, yes I do feel there is some production intervention there. But, I do have a friend that is my age (late 40's) who lost his mother 20 years ago. Every year on most major holidays, and her birthday, he changes his Facebook profile pic to one of the two of them together, and generally posts a sad post about how he never stops missing her. I think everyone grieves differently, so I won't try to guess how he feels. Ashley, well, she's just Ashley. It all about her. What she wants, what she feels, what she perceives.

 

Sam/Neil - I know some have made comments about Neil. The interesting thing, is that my husband is also very calm. He doesn't "emote" as I like to tease him. Most of his youth was spent in the military, and military police no less. So, he is just the type who doesn't fly off the handle. I'm the type that will scratch a person's eyes out if I'm upset...my husband, he'll just calmly stand back and not get into the emotional aspect of things. But, in a way, he balances me out..and when he is truly needed, trust me, he'll step up immediately. Likewise, he has no problem kissing me goodbye every morning, kissing me when he gets home, opening the car door for me, opening doors and snuggling up and saying I love you when we go to bed. But, that is because he is secure in my love for him. I don't play games, or fly off the handle (ala Sam). So, he is comfortable being loving because I don't make a joke of everything.

 

That said, about Sam. I do still see (as I mentioned last week) it's all about her. How she feels, what she needs, etc. Getting upset about Neil, well I do think she started it by laughing and saying "that's weird" when he asked if she missed him. Then to get all upset at him, again, it's all about her. Also, to throw in the kitchen sink at every little thing (i.e. he doesn't deserve to talk to me) can get quite tiring for the other person. You can't be (again IMHO) flip about emotions, then get angry when the person isn't all hugs and kisses. Also, yet again, activities are about her, what she wants. Neil, I think, just goes along with it.

 

But, to that end, and others have suggested it. With personalities like Sam, you are sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't. My step-father was like her, and I can tell you that for 30 years, he emotional terrorized us all. Only he could say things (cruel, curt, in you face). If you did the same to him, or pointed out his hypocrisies, you'd get the full effect of his wrath. It ended up where we all just walked on constant eggshells, because we could do not right by him, and most of us would rather just keep him calm then deal with his anger. Sam's constant mood shifts again, are all about her. Rather than truly being a "unit" (to use her phrase) with Neil, she's all about what she wants, which includes dictating the speed of the relationship. So, now she suddenly is comfy with him? So..he should come running? I don't think Neil is passive, I think he's just taking the path of least resistance to avoid the continuous emotional turmoil when she isn't happy.

[Evil Queen]

Ok finally got to watch it this morning so here are my thoughts on it...

David and Ashley-Laughing at Dr. C saying how David hurt Ashley and betrayed her trust. Seriously there was nothing there to hurt since she didn't give a crap from the get go and nothing to betray when she wasn't in the marriage from day one. OMG that whole text thing. Give me a break..a date. The apology has to be how she wants it if someone says it. Stupid how that is. I can't stand any of the experts...even Pepper but she threw out there that maybe it was for this reason or he told the truth even though she had made it know she wasn't into him and such. How do we know Ashley told the truth? I love how it was a friend checking up on her in this issue too. LOL Pepper saying how Ashley had opted out...DUH that happened on the wedding day when she say him. Why does he have to listen to Ashley's feelings? Did she NOT hear that he has asked her about her feelings on things and Ashley doesn't even respond? This is where it comes into play that the experts are so stupid and not doing their supposed job. Why not tell Ashley to tell him what she is thinking and feeling and about herself? OMG the presents....he put thought into it on what would make her happy and that she would like. Did she act happy at all about it? NOOOOO! Doe she even know how to show what happy is? The apron was pathetic and he acted happy and excited over it. He asked for that check kiss but she barely touched him doing that if you really watch it. LOL IF she really thought it was a cool experience to do together then why wasn't stuff like this done sooner? I swear this show should really be having them do things early on like that or whatever else out.

Neil and Sam-I can't stomach her at all. She is pathetic. Her faces show how fake she is too. The sadness wasn't even real. Give me a break. She is saying she wanted him to say it first to see what he said...yet it was just to turn it around on him so she could play games. I have seen that crap enough to know how it is. If you can't answer something first then make this stupid deal over what is said..its a game. Typical of people like her too. Been there and done that. People like her like playing a guilt game on those they are horrible to when they don't like what is said to them in those situations. The fake tears...*eye roll* Funny she didn't want to sleep in the place they got together but had to go back to her place. I doubt they sleep in that mutual place together anyway. OMG giving her gifts showed her how he felt bad for saying he didn't miss her. Its ALL about HER! UGH!!!!! And agree about those saying she should have gotten nice frames for the pictures at the very least. She said she did a good job by setting up the house and the pictures...Um sorry but you didn't do anything. We all know the show did the pictures. Her tears she is trying to muster up aren't even happening. My kids can fake cry better then that to where you think they are upset. Of course fishing is all about Sam because she likes to hunt and fish. Why not something he might like? Has she EVER asked what he would like to do? LMAO when Neil said the changes Sam has made and he has made. Nothing good about the changes dude. Run Neil!!! Run far and fast!! I swear I am so sick of the word quirky being used with them. Sorry but she is not quirky in anyway shape or form.

Tres and Vanessa- I said it before and will say it again. IF Vanessa has daddy issues from him leaving when she was a teen she needs to get the heck over it but I have a feeling its more the damn editing of the show and the stupid experts using that as the reason for everything with her. I think no matter what in the beginning of the relationship you have to learn to trust whoever no matter if its this situation or just starting to date and know each other that way. I get what she thinks could happen by living apart....that they wouldn't be growing together but at the same time he is right about just buying a place and not sure on if they like the location. You can't just jump into a place. I don't see what is wrong with what they have now expect that the show is why they have it and probably not going to work for that after. So maybe splitting time between each other's places would work until they know they would work and go from there taking time to find a place together they will love and not just settle for. Is it just me or was Vanessa just not dressed for the horseback riding? Why did he just wash his face? He should have taken a full on shower and changed clothes when he is saying he doesn't know what was causing it. I would have given him the medicine and told him to sleep and left him alone to rest. Check on him here and there but let him sleep the benadryl off. Plus get the dog away from him as well.

OMG Someone smack Pepper about changing for marriage and blah blah blah. She never says the same crap to the couples but to only one person in each couple that they need to change and do this and that for the other person. This was just the pathetic go out all of you and do something before the big decision day comes episode. SMH why isn't this crap done sooner and a few times with the couples? Making them do things they each like to do and bringing the spouse into that so they can see something about the person they married that way. WOW the preview with Sam trying to muster up tears again..LOL

[Evil Queen]

But, to that end, and others have suggested it. With personalities like Sam, you are sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't. My step-father was like her, and I can tell you that for 30 years, he emotional terrorized us all. Only he could say things (cruel, curt, in you face). If you did the same to him, or pointed out his hypocrisies, you'd get the full effect of his wrath. It ended up where we all just walked on constant eggshells, because we could do not right by him, and most of us would rather just keep him calm then deal with his anger. Sam's constant mood shifts again, are all about her. Rather than truly being a "unit" (to use her phrase) with Neil, she's all about what she wants, which includes dictating the speed of the relationship. So, now she suddenly is comfy with him? So..he should come running? I don't think Neil is passive, I think he's just taking the path of least resistance to avoid the continuous emotional turmoil when she isn't happy.

 

Sadly been there done that as well with my mom. I can not imagine Sam as a mother ever. With behavior like that and knowing how it is on the side of a child dealing with it....she would do nothing but harm to them. My mom was one of those that said things bluntly to you no matter what (always hurtful things) and would do it in front of others too. Which makes it even worse when it happened. My sister is basically just like her too. As far as I was concerned many years ago, they could have each other and I want nothing to do with them. There is no making people like that happy no matter what you do. It is not a way to live at all. 

 

 

Looooonnngggg time lurker so hello everyone (waves hi) i just wanted to add my two cents abt the couples.

 

Neil and Sam- she is a self centered b***h!! And Neil is just awkward and I want to sneak a note to him asking him to blink twice if he wants help being rescued from Sam and all her crazy.

 

 

First, welcome and second, LMAO That was one of the best comments!! 

[HumblePi]

I still can't get over the fact that Samantha is a branch manager of Sun Trust Bank. Her entire look and demeanor says 'non-professional' to me. She just doesn't fit the role of a polished white-collar who interacts with the public on a financial basis. Neil is just the opposite, he always appears to be professional and competent. I wish she would take a little time with her looks, maybe go to a real salon and get a professionally styled hairdo. I think Neil would benefit by using less product in his hair and maybe get a professional style as well. I would have never guessed these two would end up staying together but sometime I think the producers do that intentionally to make us believe there's no way that'll happen, then at the end they suddenly meld and come together as a couple.

 

I used to like Vanessa for the most part but she has a lot of flaws, including the flaw she has of wanting people to see her as insecure and needy. She never gives what she receives from Tres. She always seems like she's hormonal and can't get over herself. I saw the frustration and the implication of some anger and disgust from Tres when they were sitting in the living room and Tres was trying to be open and communicate with her. She hung her head down, her legs were crossed, she barely looked at him. Once in a while her hand covered her eyes. Tres told her "you get frustrated so easily. When I'm talking to you you're looking down or shaking your head, it's hard to communicate with someone like that." She protested in her little spoiled girl voice "I'm listening to you!". 

 

Tres is such a good guy and he's been putting in 100% of his efforts to please Vanessa. If he has a couple too many drinks, or enjoy the company of his long time friend, Vanessa gets very immature and sulks or just leaves. If Vanessa has seriously dated a lot, then she should know that Tres is just about the most patient, honest and trustworthy man she'll ever come across. She received a real gift when she was matched with Tres, and as the old saying goes 'you should never look a gift horse in the mouth', meaning when receiving a gift be grateful for what it is; don't imply you wished for more by assessing its value.

[Neurochick]

I think Neil should just tell Sam to fuck off and when she goes on a rant, treat her like a three year old having a tantrum in the supermarket walk away and say, "I don't know her."  If she doesn't change, divorce her STAT because I think she'd be a pain in the ass to live with.

 

I think Ashley's issues are very simple.  She's pissed at the experts for matching her up with a man she's not attracted to.  The end.  She told them, "I like guys with dark hair," so what did they do, set her up with a redhead.  Ashley could be one of those people who like what they like and that's that.  Is she immature?  Maybe, or maybe she just likes a certain type and there's no getting around that.

 

Vanessa:  I fear no man will ever be good enough for her.  She'll always look for that one thing, that one flaw in her man, so she can go through her life thinking, "I knew it, he's no good."

[Gator Stud]

I actually agree with you 100% and I have said many times that this show tries to put the cart before the horse by marrying people before they're ready to be married to each other.  But if that's true of Tres and Vanessa they shouldn't BE married at this point let alone buying a house together. They should realize that and agree to just date each other if they really like each other because that's where they're at right now.  I have no problem with them not giving up their apartments if they're not married.  But if they truly are married and making a real marital commitment to each other they need to be ready to give up their old apartments and move in together.  If they're not, they aren't ready for marriage, IMHO.  I think Tres is aware that they're not ready based on his comments about this not being a "normal" marriage, but Vanessa wants to push them into being ready because she wanted certainty and a sure thing.  She doesn't want to go through the uncertainty of just dating Tres because she already is concerned about how into her he really is and worries that she'll just end up getting hurt.  I don't blame her on that but that's life.  This show didn't do Vanessa any service by setting up her hopes and expectations beyond reality.  Tres may actually come around in time but is she willing to take a few steps back and just date him to see where it goes?  I don't think she wants to take that risk.  She wants him to be ready NOW so she doesn't have to deal with the uncertainty.  But that's not fair either.  Vanessa herself is trying to put the cart before the horse.  And I think Tres was trying to appease her and find a "medium happy" by suggesting they live together but hold on to their old apartments.  I don't think that's the best solution either.  The problem as I see it is that they both should be aware of the fact that they're not ready for marriage, get a divorce and just date.  But I don't think Vanessa could handle that.  She went on this show because she wanted a husband, not a boyfriend.  So it would be hard for her to face what would look to her like going backwards.  This show may actually screw up what might have turned out to be a good relationship by setting up expectations that can't be met in 6 weeks.

Here is my retake:

 

T&V

Tres is sincere.  Vanessa is too. She expects Tres to act like they were dating for years and had a traditional marriage. I think that if they were dating without the pressure they could probably make it. Ironically, the pressure of the six-week decision is making Vanessa act uptight, and will probably drive Tres away.  Nobody should give up their lease. 

 

N&S

Still think Sam is crazy.  Neil is a shell of himself since he's been with Sam.  If Sam really wanted to prove that she has changed, she should ask Neil to have sex with her.  Neil should go back to his old girlfriend.  She seemed really nice.

 

D& Evil Robot

 

I think any drama and dialogue is completely producer driven at this point.  I dont think David is that delusional.  I think the fighting for my wife lines are the producer begging him to say his lines so they have something to shoot. David needs to text some more women, and sleep with them.  I think he has been celibate for over 6 weeks.  That's alot to ask anybody to do.  Ashley might as well just keep up the blank stares.  There is only a week left and nobody would buy a change of heart.

[Nffftshewasgone]

Regarding Tres and Vanessa, I think for the most part they are trying in their own ways. There is just a disconnect somewhere and we only see minutes of their 6 weeks together so it's impossible to see what that may be. I can't get one scene out of my mind, though: When "My Girl" came to the party and sat next to Tres while Vanessa was apparently outside -- why on earth wouldn't Tres immediately find Vanessa to introduce them? Even if they wanted to catch up a little first, it just seems odd to me. So then he notices Vanessa coming in the door, GESTURES toward her and says, "that's my wife". Pardon me? So the friend gets up to say hello and he doesn't move a muscle. Where's the southern salesman charm I know he has that says you stand up in these situations? And of course it all fell apart from there: Vanessa was tongue-tied, friend was less than impressed and awkwardly sat back down, Tres is either oblivious or embarrassed, I can't tell. And then Vanessa got possessive.

[gunderda]

This episode was endless...and forced...and boring. Btw, why didn't Sam attend Neil's family wedding in Vegas? I'm sure she could have taken the time off. Was it to set up the "not missing you" redemption arc that followed?

She said in last week's episode that she couldn't go because she couldn't get Saturday off from work. 

 

I don't blame Tres one bit for not wanting to give up his apartment.  This marriage isn't a conventional one, so they really shouldn't do what "normal" couples do.  Look, I live in NYC, if you think I'd give up my apartment completely you're insane; I would sublet it though.  I have a friend who lived in a really nice apartment, when she and her boyfriend became serious, she gave it up because they needed a larger place (he had children).  This was over 20 years ago and she still talks about how she wishes she never gave up that apartment.  

 

Nope, I don't blame Tres one bit, and Vanessa acted like a spoiled brat.  She needs to put down the fucking romance novels she's been reading and get back to reality.  

 

I agree - this is not a traditional marriage so to me he was saying that he wants to see how things go when they go to a 'normal' marriage where they aren't in front of a camera crew and they don't have the professionals checking in on them.  I think it's smart of him to want to keep their places to make sure it's going to possibly work.

Normal couples have a time period of living apart before getting married so when they decide to get married they no there is no longer a need for their separate places. No so with these couples.

 

 

I actually kinda like Sam and Neil together.  Now that she's calmed her ass down and likes him more I think they compliment each other.  He probably needs someone that's a little more aggressive and outspoken, especially if he sucks with social cues.  She needs someone to make her realize life isn't so serious. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by gunderda

[HumblePi]

If by some miracle, the so-called experts matched people together that were instantly attracted to each other physically, there would still be issues. Even if those people were genuinely kind, humble, patient, loving, giving and everything else...there would STILL be problems. The fact is, people that sign up for this show aren't really looking for the best in the other person, they're looking for the worst. The initial first-sight reaction is whether they are physically attractive. But humans tend to look for the cracks and imperfections of another person rather than appreciating the best of them. Of course those imperfections are easy to spot if you're looking for them, because of course nobody is perfect. But how they deal with and accept negative traits in deference to appreciating the positive and great things about that other person is a good beginning for a long lasting relationship.Think of all the not so nice things about any one of your friends. They might do things that are irritating and you don't like it but they're your friend and you accept them for it. It's different with a marriage, people tend to want to change and modify the others personality.

[HumblePi]

I think most of you must be sadomasochistic to keep watching this crap. I can come on here and find out in 5 minutes or less I made a wise choice to abandon this show.

 

Thank you for you insight, time spent watching this show and your comments giving me affirmation that I'm not missing a freaking thing.

 

Nothing to see here.

I think it's wrong for you to call anyone here 'sadomasochistic' or put anyone down because they choose to follow any particular show. It's fine if you don't like it and don't watch it, but don't come around just to lay down a sarcastic remark about everyone here that enjoys the show and enjoy expressing their opinion about each episode.

[DangerousMinds]

D& Evil Robot

 

I think any drama and dialogue is completely producer driven at this point.  I dont think David is that delusional.  I think the fighting for my wife lines are the producer begging him to say his lines so they have something to shoot. David needs to text some more women, and sleep with them.  I think he has been celibate for over 6 weeks.  That's alot to ask anybody to do.  Ashley might as well just keep up the blank stares.  There is only a week left and nobody would buy a change of heart.

LOL! 

[ProzacQueen]

I ended up agreeing with something Ashley said, and a point Tres made.

 

I am in full agreement (and it pains me so) with Ashley, and her stance on apologies. I too, don't think an apology is real and/or sincere, if the apology goes like "I'm sorry, BUT". It gets on my nerves in real life, because does anything good follow the "but" in an apology? It's like my one ex who popped me a good one, his actual apology to me was "I'm sorry I hit you, BUT if you would have stopped acting like a bitch, I wouldn't have hit you". How can a per be truly sorry for their actions, when in the next breath, they are blaming you for their action? All that said, I'm with Ashley on that one.

 

With Tres, I ended up, being firmly on his side, when he called out Vanessa, for not looking at him when he was talking with her. He was talking with her about their apartment situation, and there she was super interested in what was going on with the floor, not hearing a word he said. Tres didn't say what she wanted to hear, so she just stopped listening. From the past few episodes, Vanessa seems kind of emotionally stunted, at the teenager level. When things are good, she is overly giddy like a teenager, when things even get a smidge tough she acts like a petulant teen.

 

I laughed until I cried, during the whole Sam and Neil "do you miss me" part. She kind of set herself up for that, and it was glorious to see it bite her in the butt. Her little temper tantrum on the bed, just sent me over the edge. I admit, I rewound that scene and watched it about 3 times. That has to be, hands down, my favorite scene of the entire series, thus far.  You know she was totally expecting him to say he missed her, and when he said he didn't, you could see the wind knocked out of her sails. As an aside, Neil really needs to blink during his talking heads. Did you guys notice, that in one his talking heads, his eyes were open SOOO WIDE, and he didn't blink once. It was totally creepy, and utterly fascinating. They say when a person blinks a lot, that means they're lying. What does it mean, if a person doesn't blink at all, when they are talking? 

 

David just annoys me. Sam just annoys me. Neil's unblinking talking head eyes creep me out.

[Snewtsie]

Tres and Vanessa - I can't blame him for not wanting to move forward with BUYING a house when they haven't even reached decision day yet.  They should wait a couple years to buy a home.   The first year of marriage is hard enough when you know each other, lots of marriages fail in that first year or two.  Why bring home ownership into it?   We don't know how long the leases are on either of their places, but I can see holding on to them for a while - especially if they really can't easily get out of the lease without paying a penalty anyway.  Some big city apartment complexes charge you a lot of money to break your lease.  Vanessa needs to quit trying to plan their entire life in the first six weeks of marriage.

I agree with everything in this comment, but I had to bold the final sentence because I think it's spot on (thank you mythoughtis!).  A reasonable person might view the end of this 'experiment' as a useful time to slow it down and enjoy dating their partner under normal circumstances.  No film crews, no crazy timeline, no fabricated drama ...And see how it feels.  I think Tres & Vanessa could have a future together if she would relax and look upon him with fresh eyes.  He's been pretty darn attentive, sweet and patient with her.  

[ClareWalks]

This has nothing to do with the episode, but whenever I see this thread title, the song "Last Dance" by Donna Summer gets stuck in my head for a good 5 minutes.

[Kareem]

I still can't get over the fact that Samantha is a branch manager of Sun Trust Bank. Her entire look and demeanor says 'non-professional' to me. She just doesn't fit the role of a polished white-collar who interacts with the public on a financial basis. Neil is just the opposite, he always appears to be professional and competent. I wish she would take a little time with her looks, maybe go to a real salon and get a professionally styled hairdo. I think Neil would benefit by using less product in his hair and maybe get a professional style as well. I would have never guessed these two would end up staying together but sometime I think the producers do that intentionally to make us believe there's no way that'll happen, then at the end they suddenly meld and come together as a couple.

I used to like Vanessa for the most part but she has a lot of flaws, including the flaw she has of wanting people to see her as insecure and needy. She never gives what she receives from Tres. She always seems like she's hormonal and can't get over herself. I saw the frustration and the implication of some anger and disgust from Tres when they were sitting in the living room and Tres was trying to be open and communicate with her. She hung her head down, her legs were crossed, she barely looked at him. Once in a while her hand covered her eyes. Tres told her "you get frustrated so easily. When I'm talking to you you're looking down or shaking your head, it's hard to communicate with someone like that." She protested in her little spoiled girl voice "I'm listening to you!".

Tres is such a good guy and he's been putting in 100% of his efforts to please Vanessa. If he has a couple too many drinks, or enjoy the company of his long time friend, Vanessa gets very immature and sulks or just leaves. If Vanessa has seriously dated a lot, then she should know that Tres is just about the most patient, honest and trustworthy man she'll ever come across. She received a real gift when she was matched with Tres, and as the old saying goes 'you should never look a gift horse in the mouth', meaning when receiving a gift be grateful for what it is; don't imply you wished for more by assessing its value.

Lovin' this, Pi! This is also the wildebeast who thinks it's a regular riot to remove parts from the banker's chair. smh

I can see how how Vanessa might dislike a man who got down on one knee at their wedding, and who brought her a corsage and who is always up for hugs and kisses, and who talks calmly when she's hurting and listens intently while she makes mountains out of mole hills and who doesn't lose his mind when she tells him to change, to act more like a married man, and who missed her when she stormed out like a child, and who wanted to be good at painting because painting is something she likes, and who keeps showing up with flowers, and who loves and trains her dog who is either being held by her or going to the bathroom in the house, and who has practically begged her to say how she feels about everything, and who has said in a talking head that he thinks she's "amazing" and has a good heart and who tries to plan things that she might like, and who was sweet when she was sick and who isn't allergic to cleaning and who looks deadly in a tux... It's that fake, phony, schmoozing, immature, not ready for marriage car salesman who was forced by producers to be nice!! Honestly, I sometimes think I'm watching a different show. It was nice reading your post. I agree with you.

[Evil Queen]

I laughed until I cried, during the whole Sam and Neil "do you miss me" part. She kind of set herself up for that, and it was glorious to see it bite her in the butt. Her little temper tantrum on the bed, just sent me over the edge. I admit, I rewound that scene and watched it about 3 times. That has to be, hands down, my favorite scene of the entire series, thus far.  You know she was totally expecting him to say he missed her, and when he said he didn't, you could see the wind knocked out of her sails. As an aside, Neil really needs to blink during his talking heads. Did you guys notice, that in one his talking heads, his eyes were open SOOO WIDE, and he didn't blink once. It was totally creepy, and utterly fascinating. They say when a person blinks a lot, that means they're lying. What does it mean, if a person doesn't blink at all, when they are talking? 

 

 

I didn't notice Neil's eyes during it. LOL Wasn't paying to much attention watching but was listening so that is funny. Will try to see pay attention next episode though. Meanwhile Sam is always all over the place with her eyes when she talks in her's or to anyone. 

   I thought it was great he said he didn't miss her. I just wish he hadn't apologized and given gifts because of it. Can you imagine though if he had said yes? It came off to me like she was waiting for him to say yes so she could pounce and say no in her nasty manner she gets. So when that didn't happen her face was like "WHAT?" and she played "sad". 

[Koda1969]

This has nothing to do with the episode, but whenever I see this thread title, the song "Last Dance" by Donna Summer gets stuck in my head for a good 5 minutes.

 

Hahaha...Me too! But then again, I saw Donna Summer live in concert in 1978 right around the time I saw Star Wars in the theater. Yeah, I'm feeling old now!

[mythoughtis]

A reasonable person might view the end of this 'experiment' as a useful time to slow it down and enjoy dating their partner under normal circumstances.  No film crews, no crazy timeline, no fabricated drama ...And see how it feels

 

 

There was actually a cast member who said this an episode or so back... amazingly enough it was SAM when she was speaking to Sammie.

[grumpypanda]

I think it's wrong for you to call anyone here 'sadomasochistic' or put anyone down because they choose to follow any particular show. It's fine if you don't like it and don't watch it, but don't come around just to lay down a sarcastic remark about everyone here that enjoys the show and enjoy expressing their opinion about each episode.

I think you might have misunderstood my post. I've watched every episode of this show but I took my ambien last night and wrote a long rambling post about Vanessa's dog that I decided was stupid so I changed my post to “nothing to see here." Please don't lump me in with the haters, I love this show even if these people annoy the hell out of me sometimes.

[TVGlow]

...weird attachments to your facial hair (Neil and Ashley).

That is the funniest thing I've seen all day!

I buy David's innocence. If he was actually interested in somebody else AND worried about how he might be perceived on TV AND knows this person has a connection to Ashley, he is smart enough to wait a couple of weeks to explore.

I do not like these people, but I can't help watching and then reading about it. If I have to wait until the second part of the season finale to hear the actual decisions, I will throw something.

[MommyToMyCats]

Lovin' this, Pi! This is also the wildebeast who thinks it's a regular riot to remove parts from the banker's chair. smh

I can see how how Vanessa might dislike a man who got down on one knee at their wedding, and who brought her a corsage and who is always up for hugs and kisses, and who talks calmly when she's hurting and listens intently while she makes mountains out of mole hills and who doesn't lose his mind when she tells him to change, to act more like a married man, and who missed her when she stormed out like a child, and who wanted to be good at painting because painting is something she likes, and who keeps showing up with flowers, and who loves and trains her dog who is either being held by her or going to the bathroom in the house, and who has practically begged her to say how she feels about everything, and who has said in a talking head that he thinks she's "amazing" and has a good heart and who tries to plan things that she might like, and who was sweet when she was sick and who isn't allergic to cleaning and who looks deadly in a tux... It's that fake, phony, schmoozing, immature, not ready for marriage car salesman who was forced by producers to be nice!! Honestly, I sometimes think I'm watching a different show. It was nice reading your post. I agree with you.

Love this!! Totally agree. #teamtres

[ctbabe]

I don't know where people are seeing the negative traits in Tres. I see a young man that wants to take things slowly.

[jamblastx]

I ended up agreeing with something Ashley said, and a point Tres made.

 

I am in full agreement (and it pains me so) with Ashley, and her stance on apologies. I too, don't think an apology is real and/or sincere, if the apology goes like "I'm sorry, BUT". It gets on my nerves in real life, because does anything good follow the "but" in an apology? It's like my one ex who popped me a good one, his actual apology to me was "I'm sorry I hit you, BUT if you would have stopped acting like a bitch, I wouldn't have hit you". How can a per be truly sorry for their actions, when in the next breath, they are blaming you for their action? All that said, I'm with Ashley on that one.

 

With Tres, I ended up, being firmly on his side, when he called out Vanessa, for not looking at him when he was talking with her. He was talking with her about their apartment situation, and there she was super interested in what was going on with the floor, not hearing a word he said. Tres didn't say what she wanted to hear, so she just stopped listening. From the past few episodes, Vanessa seems kind of emotionally stunted, at the teenager level. When things are good, she is overly giddy like a teenager, when things even get a smidge tough she acts like a petulant teen.

 

I laughed until I cried, during the whole Sam and Neil "do you miss me" part. She kind of set herself up for that, and it was glorious to see it bite her in the butt. Her little temper tantrum on the bed, just sent me over the edge. I admit, I rewound that scene and watched it about 3 times. That has to be, hands down, my favorite scene of the entire series, thus far.  You know she was totally expecting him to say he missed her, and when he said he didn't, you could see the wind knocked out of her sails. As an aside, Neil really needs to blink during his talking heads. Did you guys notice, that in one his talking heads, his eyes were open SOOO WIDE, and he didn't blink once. It was totally creepy, and utterly fascinating. They say when a person blinks a lot, that means they're lying. What does it mean, if a person doesn't blink at all, when they are talking? 

 

David just annoys me. Sam just annoys me. Neil's unblinking talking head eyes creep me out.

 

I would have to agree with Ashley (NOOOO!!!!!!) as well that there shouldn't be conditional apologies HOWEVER, if David is in fact telling the truth about his innocent intentions with the drink invitation then he didn't really need to apologize.  I can understand him stating that I am sorry I hurt you but I did not ask this girl out for anything other than on a completely platonic level.  Even after the apology that she accepted after his trip to Buffalo, it's not as if she could at least entertain the notion that maybe...just maybe he was telling the truth, she continued down the path of 'he asked a girl out on a date' to Dr. Pepper.  And if she is still convinced that he asked this girl out on a date and was truly upset about it, why would an apology make everything better?  She thinks he asked another woman out on a date...if she truly thinks that and she does have feelings for him, then she STILL would have been pissed, angry, hurt, etc....and not go back to Robot Ashley

 

For the most part, it seems that we all agree that the truth in this matter lies somewhere in between the two versions of the story and even David at least acknowledges that his choice of words and reasoning behind doing this was poor.  With Ashley, its been a quick jump to a conclusion and even after hearing an explanation, no wavering at all in her conclusion and zero acknowledgment that she could at least somewhat understand why he would reach out to someone else. 

 

The more I think about it, I do lean more on David's version of the truth simply because he has been trying to get any sort of answers about this girl and she is completely closed book.  And if he was going to ask another girl out, why in the world would he do so with ten days left AND someone she potentially knows.  It's not as if he ever met this girl so its not as if there is some chemistry there.  That said, my theory is that he truly did want to get some intel on Ashley from this girl but maybe found her attractive as well.  So an 'innocent' meet up to get any info on Ashley could have potentially laid some groundwork for a future after the 'experiment' real date with this girl.