S02.E09: The Castle

[shapeshifter]

I'm not sure going to radio silence made a whole lot of sense either... did they think the KC mafia would be going into a meeting with military style radio transmission detectors?

Even my mother had a CB handle in 1979. But, yeah, it would have been a nice touch to have shown in an earlier episode something like Peggy and Constance talking over CB radios with Constance saying she would wait until they were at the shop to share gossip.

I knew Floyd was a goner when they left her with Hansee.

For me it was when Bear (I think?) told Floyd to stay back (alone!!!) with Hanzee, and Hanzee side-eyed her like she was a juicy rabbit for a stew. He might not have actually stroked her fur hair, but he sure looked like he was thinking of it.

ETA: Back when we lived in a locale where there was a tank of live lobsters in the town grocery store, my father used to stroke the lobster until it curled up into a ball and then he would drop it in the pot of boiling water. He said he was "hypnotizing" it so it wouldn't feel any pain when it was cooked.

Martin Freeman was copying the narrator in the movie HITCHHIKERS GUIDE TO THE GALAXY. Or he was being Arthur Dent doing the narrating. Hello! Martin Freeman played Arthur Dent and we have Hanzee DENT on FARGO..

I was trying to think of where I'd heard "Dent" before! Hanzee is kind of from another planet.

The dumb cop in charge -- his name is Jeb Cheney. That can't be an accident.

Not just Cheney, but "Jeb" Cheney! I missed the first name. Edited December 9, 2015 by shapeshifter

[SoothingDave]

OK, didn't need the UFO.  This series is so well done that it doesn't need gimmicks.

 

The phone booth in the middle of nowhere by the state line was odd.  

 

Two other things that seem like anomalies to me:

 

1.  The convenience store clerk dialing 911.  It seems to me that 911 wasn't very widespread until the 1980s.  I guess it depended upon the area.

 

2.  A motel in the middle of nowhere with a coffee maker in the room?  This seemed out of place as well.  Of course, the hot water was needed as a plot point, so it makes sense for the story.  

[JC65]

When the shootout begins, the shit cop from Fargo says something like "aw jeez, it's Rapid City all over again!". Is that a clue to Season 3?

[Inquisitionist]

2.  A motel in the middle of nowhere with a coffee maker in the room?  This seemed out of place as well.  Of course, the hot water was needed as a plot point, so it makes sense for the story.

 

Sioux Falls is the largest city in South Dakota, and home to a number of financial companies and major health care providers.  I realize the show is depicting it as Hicksville, but even in 1979, it was a city of over 80,000 people.

[GUNTER]

OK, didn't need the UFO.  This series is so well done that it doesn't need gimmicks.

Its not a gimmick, this all takes place in a time where there where allot of UFO sightings,

So i really like the UFO thing.

This was a famous UFO sighting by a cop in Minnesota 1979 ufocasebook.com/minnesotasheriff1979.html

I also like it cause the UFO thing might be the only "true" thing that happend there,

Cause they say at each episode this was a real story etc : ) to me it adds allot to the series and ofc looked awesome!

[ChipBach]

OK, didn't need the UFO.  This series is so well done that it doesn't need gimmicks.

 

The phone booth in the middle of nowhere by the state line was odd.  

 

Two other things that seem like anomalies to me:

 

1.  The convenience store clerk dialing 911.  It seems to me that 911 wasn't very widespread until the 1980s.  I guess it depended upon the area.

 

2.  A motel in the middle of nowhere with a coffee maker in the room?  This seemed out of place as well.  Of course, the hot water was needed as a plot point, so it makes sense for the story.  

 

I noticed that the motel was the only place where you can find a touch tone phone.  They all had buttons, not dials.  I remember having touch tone phones in high school so they were not an anachronism.  The detail is so cool...

[shapeshifter]

When the shootout begins, the shit cop from Fargo says something like "aw jeez, it's Rapid City all over again!". Is that a clue to Season 3?

I missed that, but I did see on the pages of the book a list of states that could be potential True Crimes of the Midwest settings, and Iowa was one of them--so, yeah, possibly.

[JC65]

I missed that, but I did see on the pages of the book a list of states that could be potential True Crimes of the Midwest settings, and Iowa was one of them--so, yeah, possibly.

Don't confuse Rapid City (SD) with Sioux City (IA)

[Magic]

Maybe Malvo is connected to the UFOs.  That might explain his strange powers.

 

I'm hoping to see Betsy and Hank next episode.  Relatively safe at least from getting shot (again).  Since there's at least a few more shoot outs coming up.  The hospital might be one of the safest places to be next episode.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

There are two movies named "Crash"... I've seen one, and that definitely didn't have raining frogs. So I can't say for sure that the other one didn't have raining frogs, but I did see a movie that had raining frogs, and it definitely wasn't called "Crash." I'm going to go out on a limb and say there weren't two movies featuring raining frogs.

you are totally correct. I had a big old brain fart when I typed that. I was thinking of MAGNOLIA (with Tom Cruise). That had the raining frogs at the end. 

[cpcathy]

The frogs are not really a spoiler, I feel. It's so random and it really has nothing to do with the various plotpoints.

[shapeshifter]

Don't confuse Rapid City (SD) with Sioux City (IA)

Oops. Turns out I was confusing Rapid City (SD) with Cedar Rapids (IA)--passed through IA when looking at colleges with youngest daughter 10(!) years ago.

[meep.meep]

Maybe it was symmetry, both Rye and Bear meet their demise staring up at the lights.

Yeah how did Hanzee know about the motel? He was there before Ed and Peggy and the local yokel cops arrived.

 

Rye actually met his demise in Ed and Peggy's garage.  He was alive when she drove into the garage.  It was him trying to get out that made the noise that Ed followed to find him, and then actually kill him.

 

I thought Hanzee got some of the info about taking Dodd to Sioux Falls to hand over to Milligan from listening to the conversation between Constance and Peggy.  Poor Constance.  Were those UFO symbols on the wall of her hotel room?

[VCRTracking]

Also was surprise how effectively badass Ben Schmidt(shit cop) was, even when terrified out of his mind!

[ALenore]

I loved the malapropisms the dumb head cop Cheney used: "up a tree without a paddle" and "we squeeze the lemons we got and use the juice to catch these big fish" are the ones I remember, but I think there were a few more.      

[WearyTraveler]

Also was surprise how effectively badass Ben Schmidt(shit cop) was, even when terrified out of his mind!

 

Hey, even a stopped clock is right twice a day! :D

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Also was surprise how effectively badass Ben Schmidt(shit cop) was, even when terrified out of his mind!

In my experience, human weasels are really good at self-preservation.  They certainly get the most promotions!

[Texasmom1970]

Maybe Malvo is connected to the UFOs.  That might explain his strange powers.

 

I'm hoping to see Betsy and Hank next episode.  Relatively safe at least from getting shot (again).  Since there's at least a few more shoot outs coming up.  The hospital might be one of the safest places to be next episode.

Me too I am not ready to see either one if these characters gone yet!

[cpcathy]

Me neither. Danson is the reason I started watching Fargo at all. He's been such a steady, comforting presence in the whole show.

[candall]

 There were tons of sightings in a small Missouri town not 30 miles from my home.

I was really stunned not that Hanzee killed Floyd, but by the WAY he killed her. That was one of the most chilling things I've seen in a while .

Name of small Missouri town, please?

 

I'm pro-UFO.  I can't even remember the last time a tv show made my mouth drop open with amazement, so huzzah.   I thought Ronald Reagan popping in and out was much more dissonant and what-the-fuckier than the flying saucer.

 

Kirsten Dunst has certainly won me over, but Ed 'n Peggy aren't my favorite characters.  (Call me, Hank.)  If we're talking spinoff, I'd watch Ohanzee Dent actualize every week.  How is it possible Zahn McClarnon isn't billed until the very last credit page, where he shares the space with another actor?  The man is mesmerizing.  I even wanted to know more about why he would gut Floyd in that particularly brutal fashion.  No bunny strokes for you, Floyd.

[A Boston Gal]

The actor playing the asshole captain played a Klansman in "O Brother." My husband has a great eye. Picture the guy younger, thinner, and with round eyeglasses.

Omg, yes! Your husband does indeed have a great eye - terrific pick!

Edited December 10, 2015 by A Boston Gal

[PepperMonkey]

The UFO stuff doesn't bother me at all; starting in the early to mid 70s up until the crop circle era, there were multiple UFO sightings in every state, every night. It's such a part of that time period, I'm glad they put it in, but I am wondering where it's headed. I keep wondering if Betsy doesn't die, but maybe is taken away by a UFO?? I hope so, because I'm sure the aliens could heal her and I don't want to see her OR Hank die on the show.

 

I'm obsessed with Hanzee, just as I was obsessed with Billy Bob Thornton in season one. We never really seem to find out what makes them tick completely, which just fuels my obsession even more.

 

Can't wait till next week, but I'm so sad we'll have to wait ten months to see another season.

[Black Knight]

Bear's explanation to Floyd about Simone "...she ran off..." makes it clear to me that Simone was executed.

That was just a replay of the scene we already saw a couple episodes ago, so what Bear told Floyd wasn't new information. Plus, the alternative that Simone gave Bear was banishment - that she'd leave and not come back. So if he didn't kill her, his explanation to Floyd that she ran off is actually him basically telling the truth. And with all the other Gerhardts dead now, before the finale, with the exception of Charlie (who's decided he wants nothing of the Gerhardt life), and Mike flashbacking to Simone in this episode, there's a lot of reason to think Simone's alive.

 

Lots of credit being given to Benjamin for taking out the guys who busted into the room - but nobody's mentioned that he couldn't have done it if not for Peggy. Benjamin was sleeping; Peggy was awake and saw the shadow of one of the guys. She obviously woke up the dumbass so he could get into position, and got herself and Ed into the bathroom. So chalk up yet another on Peggy's win column. She really is, in her own insane way, better than all the rest of them. But...Lester in S1 was also very good at just being kind of like the Energizer Bunny, always working to get himself out of his problems instead of giving up, and he did go down in the end. Peggy's fate may well be the same.

 

It's interesting to think how things might've gone if Lou had continued to drive home. Did he really help? If he hadn't shot Bear and thus distracted him, Bear might've been able to take out Hanzee, which means Hanzee never would've shot Hank. For all that Lou's a competent cop, he may well have made the situation worse by deciding to drive back to take a look at Constance's murder scene.

[rhys]

I'm one of the posters who dislike the ufo crap. The reports in the Midwest in the 70s were about lights and such, no? Not huge behemoths taking over parking lots and close enough to throw a baseball to.

[lidarose9]

I have no problem at all with the UFO crap. Not because it's realistic or plausible, cuz of course it's not. But it's completely right in the Coen Zone. The storytelling sensibilities of Fargo, the mythological landscape where we watch ignorant armies clash by night -- it's perfectly in that vein. 

 

I saw inexplicable lights in the sky one night in the mid-70s, not far from Sioux Falls. But you don't have to believe in UFOs to enjoy the spectacle we got, the ultimate deus ex machina. I loved it. 

 

About the phone booth in the middle of nowhere, you used to run into that sometimes back in the olden days. Like, say, at one point there was a gas station at that intersection, but it closed long ago and ten years later someone tore down the buildings, so maybe there's just a trashed-out old shed there now... the phone booth is like a relic. Cuz once Bell Telephone put in a phone booth, it stayed til they took it out. 

 

 

[shapeshifter]

I have to admit to being a little annoyed by the depictions of the UFOs being actual hovering saucers rather than lights in the sky. But then they seem to be just mocking me as if to say to me, "Seriously? You're having a hard time with UFOs? Like everything else in this show is realistic?" to which I want to reply: "Well. Yes. Sort of. Kind of."

[Milburn Stone]

I have to admit to being a little annoyed by the depictions of the UFOs being actual hovering saucers rather than lights in the sky. But then they seem to be just mocking me as if to say to me, "Seriously? You're having a hard time with UFOs? Like everything else in this show is realistic?" to which I want to reply: "Well. Yes. Sort of. Kind of."

 

To me, the show has only ever been realistic in the same way the events of a weird dream seem realistic to the dreamer while they're happening. The light of day makes it clear to the dreamer that none of that stuff could have happened the way it did, but while the dream is going on, it sure seems like it's real. Even without the UFO, this season has been less about the seventies than like the fever dream of someone who lived through the seventies. So the UFO fits right in.

[capt planet]

Count me in as someone who loves the literal, dripping-on-your-face UFO!  Contrasting this with True Detective Season 1,

in which the Lovecraftian horror being hinted at was abandoned entirely

, I think this took serious guts.  I wonder if Peggy's perfectly intonated rational response to Ed was really Hawley's message to the audience.  I read a quote by Hawley basically saying he wanted to own the UFO, for better or worse, and I really admire that.  

 

(Of course, I thought LOST was at its best in the insane latter seasons, so ymmv).

Edited December 10, 2015 by capt planet

[Ankai]

I had little problem with the flat circle that was the flying saucer. If I had to choose between this and Molly being sidelined at the end of Season 1, I would go with this. Also, even with all of the buildup to this event, I figured that there was no way that the event would compare corpse-wise to the stuff in Game of Thrones or Spartacus, so it would make sense that the whole thing would go in a different direction.

 

That said, I am surprised that the story did not have the Kansas City people not send a gang up to the motel, if only to try to take Dodd for themselves and get the drop on Mike.

[Jane Doe]

First post on this site so forgive me if this question has been asked and asnwered.  Here it is - Why is the mater familias named Floyd?

[shapeshifter]

First post on this site so forgive me if this question has been asked and asnwered. Here it is - Why is the mater familias named Floyd

Hah! Finally a voice in the crowd commenting on the fact that the emperor has no clothes! Well, that the empress has a funny name. And while we're at it: What the heck is a Dodd? In a November interview (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/fargo-jean-smart-interview-836164) Jean Smart said she imagined it was because Floyd's father wanted a son to name Floyd--which does fit with the gender issues we've seen portrayed. Even if that was a factor in writer Noah Hawley's naming of the character, I suspect he might have also been influenced by the exploits of Pretty Boy Floyd when doing research for the script and wanted to use the name.

[cpcathy]

I agree. It seems like Floyd has been fighting in a man's world for a long time, beginning with her name.

[WTEngel]

Just a few things to add...

 

So far, there has been no question about who has been killed and who hasn't, with one exception, Simone. Even with Constance (hair dresser in Hotel with Hanzee) we eventually got the confirmation that she was in fact killed.

 

We now have only 1 Gerhardt (Charlie) possibly 2 (Simone) left. These loose ends will be tied up somehow. I know Charlie has a limp and hand problems, but maybe he gets cured and becomes Malvo? It is a huge long shot, but hey, stranger things have happened.

 

Can anyone recall any female characters from Season 1 that may have been an adult Simone or Charlie? I am just tossing ideas around about what the fate of these two could be...

 

Also, Season 3 is supposed to take place after the events of Season 1, so post 2006. It is possible that we may see one or both of these characters next year.

 

As for the UFO situation...we don't know who makes it out of next week. Lou was being choked out and for all he knows, he just saw some bright lights as he was about to pass out. He may consider himself an unreliable narrator. The only person who actually confirmed that they were seeing a UFO was the "actualized" Peggy. Everyone else was dumbfounded for sure, and didn't have any idea what to make of it. Hanzee has seen lights similar to that before in a previous episode, and we don't know if he makes it out of this season alive...so the only character who we know for sure makes it out of Season 2 alive and saw the UFO (even though he was near the point of passing out) is Lou.

 

None of the other characters confirmed that they were seeing a UFO. Also, when Ed was looking off the balcony and said "Honey are you seeing this?" I can't remember for sure, but it looked like he may have been looking down. I will need to re watch. If he was looking down, for all we know, he could have been looking at the fight between Lou and Bear...

 

Just some disruptive theories to throw into the mix...

[Juliegirlj]

I loved Floyd, but if she wanted to live in "a man's world ", she should have made use of that revolver she stylishly had slung on her belt, and gotten at least one bullet into Hanzee as he sliced her open. At the very least, it would have alerted Bear that things with Hanzee were amiss. I don't mind the UFO symbolism- it gives a physical presence to the strong conspiracy feelings of that time, and there actually was a reported UFO experience with a Minnesota State Trooper back in 1979.

Regarding the finale, Noah Hawley said he sees Fargo as a tragedy with a happy ending. "Just because the story is over, doesn't mean these characters aren't still going on". I wonder if he is referring to Ed and Peggy, or Hanzee, or the obvious Lou?!

[RustbeltWriter]

It was kind of funny that big cop Jeb Cheney is giving Lou and Hank all manner of crap about how they do their jobs when he has such an embedded coruption problem he can't take the prisoners back to the station.

[malthus]

Delurking to comment on what a joy it is to watch Ted Danson as Hank. He stole every scene he was in on Bored to Death and he is killing it here, too. I was howling watching his reactions in the cabin with Peggy and Ed and then outside on the deck. So calm and understated, as if Hank is just laughing at the absurdity of the situation, too. I hope he survives.

 

Fantastic casting top to bottom, and much praise to Kirsten Dunst, as well. I never would have expected Peggy to get as....ummmm, realized...as she's become. She'll be the new crime boss in no time.

[Jane Doe]

RustbeltWriter, I never caught the Jeb Cheney name (excellent name btw) so thanks.  I always refer to him as porno cop as he looks like a sleazy 70's porno actor. 

[Macbeth]

Hanzee had a pretty good plan.  He killed Dodd so the Gerhardts had to go.  The Gerhardts are in a shoot out with local law enforcement where many are killed  the heat will be off his LEO killings.  Maybe.  Until someone remembers his body is not among the Gerhardts    - so plan not so good.

 

I agree Hanzee has  been actualized and he is letting years of rage break through the dam.  Damn the consequences. And the US military made him an effective killing machine.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Macbeth

[ChipBach]

Hanzee had a pretty good plan.  He killed Dodd so the Gerhardts had to go.  The Gerhardts are in a shoot out with local law enforcement where many are killed  the heat will be off his LEO killings.  Maybe.  Until someone remembers his body is not among the Gerhardts    - so plan not so good.

 

I agree Hanzee has  been actualized and he is letting years of rage break through the dam.  Damn the consequences. And the US military made him an effective killing machine.

 

I think the Hanzee question is more simple than that.  He believe the KC deal was a good one and allowed the Gerhardts to simply implode (with some help) so he could take over.  There is still the question of Dodd calling him "half breed".  That infers that Dodd knows Hanzee lineage.  He's still too old to be the son of the big brother so it may be Otto.  

[AuntiePam]

I think the Hanzee question is more simple than that.  He believe the KC deal was a good one and allowed the Gerhardts to simply implode (with some help) so he could take over.  There is still the question of Dodd calling him "half breed".  That infers that Dodd knows Hanzee lineage.  He's still too old to be the son of the big brother so it may be Otto.  

 

That's an interesting thought, but would whoever's left in North Dakota crime circles follow Hanzee's orders?  

[craziness]

I thought Hanzee got some of the info about taking Dodd to Sioux Falls to hand over to Milligan from listening to the conversation between Constance and Peggy. Poor Constance. Were those UFO symbols on the wall of her hotel room?

Above is a quote, but I can't format those right from my phone.

I don't think Peggy knew of the"go to Sioux Falls and trade Dodd to the KC folks/Milligan" plan when she was talking to Constance on the phone. Didn't Ed improvise that plan during his last call to Mike? At about the same time that Dodd was escaping the ropes? Hanzee getting to the Motor Motel first will likely always be a mystery.

Edited December 12, 2015 by craziness

[shapeshifter]

Likely a lot of Hanzee's violent actions are directly related to PTSD from Vietnam; childhood and later Gerhardt abuse could be lesser factors.

[MsMollyD]

What about this for a theory: Hanzee IS a Gerhardt and finally got tired of no one acknowledging the fact. Otto brought Hanzee to the compound as a child. While giving room and board to an orphan in exchange for labor was certainly a thing, what if Otto did it because he's Hanzee's dad? Hanzee shot Dodd right after Dodd called him a mutt and a half breed. What if he's as much a Gerhardt son as any of them and that comment was the last straw? You have to admit he would have been a way better capo of the family than Dodd.

[AuntiePam]

MsMollyD, that's a good theory.  It raises questions.  If Hanzee is Otto's child, would he have acknowledged that to Floyd?  Would Floyd accept it, Otto having an affair?  Would Otto have wanted Hanzee to be treated more as family, with a say in decisions?  McClarnon said in his interview that a lot of questions about Hanzee would be answered in the final episode.  Maybe his parentage is one of them.

[Catherinewriter]

Any word on Season 3?

 

Unlike many of you, I don't like the split screen; it messes with my concentration. Could someone with cinematographical savvy explain the use of this technique?

 

 

I went over and over the cast - there were so many bit players - to figure out which was Martin Freeman - than someone mentioned that he was the narrator. Wow, good voice.

[Ohwell]

I don't mind the split screen if it's used sparingly, but I thought it was used too much on Fargo.  A minor nitpick though.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

In Noah's mind, it was either that, or take away some of the sub-plots as they could not cram it all in under the time constraints he was presented.  Since this show demanded I use my brain more than any other, I absolutely endorse that he trusted us to work to figure out the timelines as he was utilizing this technique.  I completely get how this would not be acceptable to many folks, though.  Definitely YMMV.

[John Potts]

I'm beginning to wonder (and almost hope) that Peggy and Ed will survive the series despite essentially bumbling through and surviving by dumb luck (a bit like C3PO & R2D2 throughout the Star Wars Saga, to use an apropos example!). Can't really blame her for fleeing custody given the overall incompetence of the cops here, even though it's a bit tiresome to see cops more concerned with pissing contests as opposed to actually catching criminals (I have no idea how accurate that is). It would have probably have saved a few lives if they hadn't insisted on sidelining the only two competent cops in the state (or possibly three states).

 

Lorimac "So, see ya at dinner on Sunday?" and Hank's rueful smile in response.  That was a moment of kindness - letting someone who is in a bad way feel like life will just keep going on

 

 

IMO, it could go either way. We did hear sirens on the way, so he should be getting medical attention soon, but he is seriously injured and there are a lot of bodies to attend to. Though I agree it would be tragic if Molly lost her mom and grandpa on the same day - that doesn't mean it won't happen.

 

aquarian1  I wondered if the UFO was a hallucination of either Bear's or Lou's (or both) given the physical state they were in

 

 

I wondered that too - until Peggy saw it as well. Then again, she is nuts, so she's hardly a credible witness!.

 

I did love Mike's walking in on the massacre, shrugging and smiling at how one lot of his enemies had been wiped out. I'm guessing Mike is going to be on top of the outfit by the end of this series. Hanzee proves he's a complete badass, but I'm thinking he's this season's Malvo (particularly given the narration implied he wasn't around for long) destined to die in the finale. Hope it's Peggy that kills him!

[MaryPatShelby]

I'm officially in love with Patrick Wilson.  Where has he been all my life?

[cpcathy]

I'm officially in love with Patrick Wilson.  Where has he been all my life?

 

If you haven't seen Little Children, do, he's excellent in it--yet another non-showy role for him.