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S05.E10: New Normal


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Didn't think I could dislike that braided hairstyle who passes as a human woman, but I can.

 

Quinn is alive. Now Carrie listen closely. You kill him next episode and I hope they hog tie you to Allison and put you both in that Sarin chamber.

 

I am like Saul. I am angry. But also happy

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Quinn shouldn't be alive the story was just a bit too contrived,  but hell, I'm glad he is still around.  I knew Dar would get some use out of Allison, but what's with the Irish Setter Dog?  Is Allison signalling the Russians under the nose of her CIA babysitter?  Damn it woman your goose is cooked. 

Edited by Andie1
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It's a joke how hateable and smug they are making the stupid reporter.  I especially have no patience for her antics this week.

 

I hope everyone in the real life CIA isn't as dumb as the CIA on this show.  Allison signaling with the old lady right under her babysitter's nose and him not noticing was maddening.  I hope he was just playing her her with the I don't believe it and that he actually noticed the signals and reports back to Saul, but I'm not holding my breath as they've already proven to all be pretty bad spies. 

 

I'm glad they found Quinn and he's alive and I don't care how implausible it is.

Edited by yourmomiseasy
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I'm glad - but not surprised - that Quinn made it out alive, although the previews show him going through some more physical agony.  Please, writers:  Hasn't he suffered enough?
Concerning Allison's claims of being Ivan's handler (rather than the other way around), I was going to suggest that Dar watch "the Americans" and talk to Nina.  I do like the - to me - more realistic scenario where everyone (Dar, Saul, the director) knows the truth, but it's too embarrassing to admit. 

Why couldn't Laura have been the Sarin specimen?  It would have been more of an impact, using a well-known woman, rather than the beautiful, anonymous man. 

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I am neither a "shipper" nor a "crackpot" in my regular life, but all I want out of this show right now is for Carrie and Quinn to have mad passionate sex and be bad-ass together taking down terrorists and other scum for eternity.  Her sister can watch the kid while they're on missions.  

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It was quick but I think they worked in an ADR reference to the Paris attacks:  "We don't want another Paris" or similar words.

Yes, I noticed it. Plus, Dar talked about Washington not sending in troops because that's exactly what ISIS wants us to do - which was straight out of President Obama's mouth in tonight's speech to the country over the latest shooting. Talk about current.

What was Alison signaling to the older lady with the dog? She's going to get away, isn't she? I see a high-end shopping spree in Moscow in her future.

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Again I want Quinn to be allowed to retire to a place with nothing but pleasure.  What more can happen to him?  We all called that he would live, no matter how improbable.  I was hoping he was playing up the effects of the gas.  Instead Quinn is yet again at death's door. 

 

I will say even with the silliness of Dar trusting Allison this episode held my attention throughout.  Well done, show. 

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It was quick but I think they worked in an ADR reference to the Paris attacks:  "We don't want another Paris" or similar words.

They also did their homework in that they mentioned 'not wanting another Tokyo'.  This had to be a reference to this.

 

Little historical tidbit.  At the time this happened I was working on a, well, secret military chemical weapons testing ground.  Well, not that secret, but what happened on the base was.  Anyway, I was looking up some information at one facility while a meeting was going on in the next room, and I couldn't help but overhear some things. One was a discussion about this sarin attack in the Tokyo subway - they couldn't believe how few people died (little over a dozen).  They were just sure it should have killed many more, maybe hundreds, so speculation was that the air circulation systems were just so good it dissipated most of the gas.  Lots of folks got dosed but many only lightly.  

 

Seems like these guys are intent on recreating this attack.

I will say even with the silliness of Dar trusting Allison this episode held my attention throughout.

 

it was pretty interesting but I'm not so sure Dar trusts Allison at all.  Sounded like Dar had the right of it - no way Allison is trusted with anything anytime soon.  His inclusion of Allison in the investigation into the upcoming attack gave me pause, but I'm hoping Dar is working an angle here.  Hopefully he just uses her to help find the sarin guys (she is an experienced intelligence officer) than claps her ass in irons and ships her home.  Nothing else rings true to me, what with Saul's, Carrie's, and even Astrid's absolute conviction that Allison is dirty.  

 

Also, I can't believe that Dar, who knows exactly what a political shit-storm is brewing if Allison is a mole, would risk his own position on the off chance he could pull one over on the Russians.  Dar said it himself - the book says ship Allison home and turn the matter over to counter-intelligence, and any deviation from that is likely to send a bit of that shit-storm Dar's way.  

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I know that in the past, Claire Danes has been heavily criticized for her frequent use of ugly crying but her reactions to watching the video of Quinn (first at the cafe with the panic and terror as she realized who it was and then later watching the entire video with Astrid, horrified and trying not to cry) and then later finding his presumed dead body were perfect. Carrie let herself react emotionally the first time she watched the video and then she steeled herself to watch it as many times as necessary to find some kind of clue or signal.

 

I loved that Carrie and Astrid, who have barely tolerated each other with their undisguised mutual dislike, worked together to find Quinn. When Astrid held Carrie's hand as they watched the video, I both loved the emotional support and hated that it took Quinn's (almost) death to bring them together as allies. I totally loved the two of them searching the building together so it would be great to see them teaming up to kick some more ass this season. They don't have to become BFFs and braid each other's hair or anything but I think/hope that going through this together has changed their relationship.

 

Ha, but I totally agree that after everything Quinn has been through, he deserves a Carrie/Astrid threesome.

 

Allison was definitely signaling the old lady so she's still playing the game. Since she's free to wander around (albeit with an escort), is Ivan out too? Or is he still being interrogated? I would imagine that Allison can't just cut and run until he's been released. And since she seems to have gotten away with this big fat lie, the Russians are going to keep her in play so she couldn't run even if she wanted to.

 

I'm really curious about Allison signaling the lady with the dog though. This had to be an old prearranged signal because if Allison had the freedom to call the Russians, she wouldn't need to signal the lady with the dog. So whatever she is signaling must be a simple yes or no, as in yes, our cover is still intact.

 

Gawd, will Laura ever STFU? Even when she says things I agree with (like when she asked for a lawyer in one of the first episodes of the season), I still can't stand her.

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They know the mastermind and they know where they were when they made the video.

How could they possibly figure out where they're going.

How would Quinn or that guy they took away from During know?

If it was 24, they'd be torturing someone, the ticking time bomb fantasy that advocates of "enhanced interrogation" talk about.

But there's no witness in this case.

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Join the BND, you can wear your leather pants to work!

 

I was worried that after all this cribbing from 24 they were going for some Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan when Carrie found Quinn. The Wrath of Quinn?

 

Also, Saul gets reduced to that wronged character who always popped up on 24, the one the good guys hope can sweet talk the truth out of the bad guy but ends up getting violent instead.

 

I appreciated the mention of turning Allison over to counter-intelligence once she's shipped back to the states but of course there's a crisis so forget about that.

 

Did they not realize that the Russian told them a lot of nothing that sounded like it might be something? Six barrels of Bad Shit went missing in Syria back in the day. So what? That is not important at all right now. What is important is where it ended up! The congressional hearings can come later!

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It was improbable that Quinn lived, but I'm okay with it because I love him.  I do not find it unbelievable, as the recapper suggests, that they left Quinn alive. By the time they realized he was breathing they were ready to bug out, and having to suit up to go into the sarin chamber probably didn't seem worth it. They couldn't shoot him through the glass unless they all wanted to die.

 

Loved everyone this episode, except Allison, who I am supposed to loathe, and Laura, who I loathe even when she doesn't speak.  Just her "I'm a bad ass because I let a wisp of hair strategically escape every damn day" face annoys me.

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On the whole, I liked it but time for the CIA and the BND to stop screwing around and call in Section 20.

 

I can see that Dar might ask Allison and Ivan for whatever they know about the attack, but it seems a little much to let Allison any kind of freedom of movement or to let her speak to Ivan.

 

Dar doesn't have a problem heading-up a secret black ops group that assassinates people at the drop of a hat, or getting into car with Haqqani, but he's upset that Saul started choking Allison?

 

I also don't see why Ivan would be singing like a songbird, in Dar's words.  He has diplomatic immunity.  If he's going along with Allison's ruse he risks making it self-fulfilling.

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It was quick but I think they worked in an ADR reference to the Paris attacks:  "We don't want another Paris" or similar words.

 

 

I noticed that too.  That was some pretty quick editing.  

 

Can Carrie and Astrid take Laura and Allison out back and beat the shit outta both of them?   Dar & Saul have gotten played so much by Allison it's getting ridiculous.     Women's intuition, boys.  You might wanna take note.  She's been right a lot more than she's been wrong. 

 

Note to Laura:  STFU. Now. 

 

Did I also notice Bibi talking about attacking until the Allied Forces/Americans send ground troops to the Middle East?  Hey GOP take note. If you don't want to believe the President, how about just watch Homeland?  You're playing into their hands.

Edited by teddysmom
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As tense as I was watching the hour, I'm starting to feel that the show is treating Quinn's near-death escapades the way I feel Outlander* treats rape: happens weekly, the more lurid the better.  Or maybe that's just the ghost of Jack Bauer in the showrunners' blood. Either way, I humbly suggest that a riveting hour of teevee can happen without a life-or-death countdown in every ep.

 

Watching badass ladies doing the spy thing together was not just a little bit awesome, I don't mind saying.

 

As much as I agree with Saul's diagnosis of Allison's sociopathy, I'm not loving the go-straight-to-choke response. Sigh. Saul, you're cleverer than that.

 

Who knew that Irish Setters were trained in spy tradecraft! Who's a good spy-doggie?! You are! Yasss, you are!

 

*I know there are Outlander defenders out there, and my thoughts here aren't meant to pass judgment on any. Just my own reactions.

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As much as I agree with Saul's diagnosis of Allison's sociopathy, I'm not loving the go-straight-to-choke response. Sigh. Saul, you're cleverer than that.

 

I keep trying to give Saul & Dar the benefit of the doubt and thought they were playing good cop/bad cop. 

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Otto During knew that, a this time of crisis, he could not keep the knowledge of the phone guy's missives and body language from the interview  from the German authorities. Also, the moment he called Saul he also knew that  either Saul would call in the troops, or that the German BND was bugging Otto (and/or Saul)  and they would send in the troops. Either way, Otto avoids as serious problem with the Govt and has saved face with the staff - Saul said he would honor the agreement and allow phone guys counsel to accompany him, but Otto assumed otherwise. And probably Jonas knew all this as well.

 

Laura can't be that dumb to assume she was safe legally. 

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I know that in the past, Claire Danes has been heavily criticized for her frequent use of ugly crying but her reactions to watching the video of Quinn (first at the cafe with the panic and terror as she realized who it was and then later watching the entire video with Astrid, horrified and trying not to cry) and then later finding his presumed dead body were perfect. Carrie let herself react emotionally the first time she watched the video and then she steeled herself to watch it as many times as necessary to find some kind of clue or signal.

 

I loved that Carrie and Astrid, who have barely tolerated each other with their undisguised mutual dislike, worked together to find Quinn. When Astrid held Carrie's hand as they watched the video, I both loved the emotional support and hated that it took Quinn's (almost) death to bring them together as allies. I totally loved the two of them searching the building together so it would be great to see them teaming up to kick some more ass this season. They don't have to become BFFs and braid each other's hair or anything but I think/hope that going through this together has changed their relationship.

 

Ha, but I totally agree that after everything Quinn has been through, he deserves a Carrie/Astrid threesome.

 

Allison was definitely signaling the old lady so she's still playing the game. Since she's free to wander around (albeit with an escort), is Ivan out too? Or is he still being interrogated? I would imagine that Allison can't just cut and run until he's been released. And since she seems to have gotten away with this big fat lie, the Russians are going to keep her in play so she couldn't run even if she wanted to.

 

I'm really curious about Allison signaling the lady with the dog though. This had to be an old prearranged signal because if Allison had the freedom to call the Russians, she wouldn't need to signal the lady with the dog. So whatever she is signaling must be a simple yes or no, as in yes, our cover is still intact.

 

Gawd, will Laura ever STFU? Even when she says things I agree with (like when she asked for a lawyer in one of the first episodes of the season), I still can't stand her.

 

 

Because it was Quinn, QUINN!!, I let Carrie's emotional breakdown pass, but I'm not going to lie and say that my eyes didn't roll at the first chin tremble.  It is just losing its impact for me.  I'm not saying that she doesn't have reason to cry every single episode, but I just feel like it is such a thing now, and each time brings diminishing returns, at least for me.  Which is a shame, because of course QUINN!!

 

I am fully on board with a Quinn, Carrie and Astrid threesome.  In fact, I am delusionally hoping for a scene where Quinn comes to and sees his two women and sitcom-like awkwardness and hilarity ensue while jaunty Grey's Anatomy music plays in the background.  Just like when a doctor gets on the SGH elevator with the 7 other people he slept with, except with no-nonsense Germans and sarin gas!

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I didn't find the failure to kill Quinn before the jihadists departed to be particularly unbelievable relative to several other things (e.g., the Sarin exposure would surely have killed Quinn despite the shot; only Carrie can think to meld two data sets together with a special algorithm ). As stated, the jihadists were in a big rush to leave, Quinn was nearly dead, had served his purpose for them, and opening up the still-Sarin-filled chamber would have been complicated and dangerous to them and their mission. Also, it unclear what details about their mission Quinn knows, and as far as Bibi knows, maybe Quinn knows nothing worth disrupting and delaying their mission when he's as good a dead in the near term anyway.

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It could have been a reference to January's Paris terrorist attack as well. Sadly, there has been more than one this year for them to reference. Who knows.

I was cheering when Saul got "physical". I really really don't like her....

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I swear, if Quinn died this episode, I'm ready to blame Carrie 100% for his death. I've always thought that she should have asked Astrid for help instead of Jonas. Astrid was genuinely concerned about Quinn and she would have made sure he would have gotten the care that he needs without alerting anyone who's not supposed to be alerted. She already helped with identifying the guy who shot Quinn, what more with making sure Quinn isn't hurt? But Carrie let her dislike for Astrid cloud her judgement back then, and she was singularly focused on finding out who had tried to kill her. Seriously, when she finally figured out this whole Allison thing, that's the only time it came to her mind "Now we gotta find out what happened to Quinn..." All this time, that thought never crossed her mind. Good thing Quinn was alive, even if barely.

 

But Carrie and Astrid working together is all kinds of awesome. I hope this partnership goes beyond this season. When they were sitting there, watching the video, I thought, "Ah, the two women in Quinn's lives...the two women he both promised to leave the agency for, but never happened."

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I cannot stand how they are using Quinn this season. I truly do not want to see another episode of him in agony next week coughing up thick chunks of blood. For me, the intrigue and quality of this show have long ago sunk very low, probably around the shark jumping CIA blow up.  But what has kept me coming back is Quinn and his story.  Only Quinn and his story. The fact that we get to see him nearly die in a particularly gruesome way and probably physically messed up for the rest of his life is truly depressing.

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It was quick but I think they worked in an ADR reference to the Paris attacks:  "We don't want another Paris" or similar words.

 

I thought it was a reference to Charlie Ebdo but who knows?

 

Last week I made the prediction that Allison would walk and so I can't really rant about it now that it has happened. But I can complain about writers trying to have their cake and eating it too - if no one believed Allison's story and Dar was even keener to contain an embarrassing scandal, then his initial plan to put her on a plane to Washington, handing her over to counterintelligence, was sound. To have her free to walk and signal her handlers after that makes it worse, it's just a contrivance that happens only on tv shows. What's more, if "everyone" is saying stuff about Allison, then how come Washington seemingly isn't interested in this possible devastating news? Someone somewhere should have known that Allison would use the Quinn incident to wiggle out of her predicament. All hands on deck must exclude Allison, surely.

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When I saw the woman walking the dog, all I could think of was "Hey, there's Claudia from 'The Americans'!" It would have made a great cameo tie in for Margo Martindale especially with the discussion of Allison being a grown up Paige.  

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Also, Saul gets reduced to that wronged character who always popped up on 24, the one the good guys hope can sweet talk the truth out of the bad guy but ends up getting violent instead.

 

I was hoping that he was just playing bad cop to Dar's good cop.

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Well I got my wish and the gang's back together. Poor Quinn. When he recovers I hope he tells the CIA to go eff themselves with lye-coated toilet brushes. No matter what they're paying him it can't be enough. And to think that a large part of the reason he ended up in this mess is because dumbass Carrie decided to go off her meds so she could SAVE THE WORLD! as only she can. Sorry, I'll never be on board for a Carrie/Quinn/Astrid threesome. He deserves better, IMO. Way better.

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Quinn alive? Implausible? Oh Snarky Von Snarkersons of little faith: The reason Quinn is still alive is that in order to actually kill him after seeing that the gas didn't do the job, one would have to actually put on the HazMat suit, get it double-checked by someone (oh shit - we just killed the HazMat suit expert!), go into the infected room where the gas is still lolling around looking for someone else to snuff out, shoot him, kick the body a few times, look out the window at fellow terrorists and shrug, leave the infected room, shower while wearing HazMat suit, dispose of HazMat suit, find another HazMat suit for the upcoming gas-attack, pack it, and THEN leave the spooky house. They just didn't have the time.

 

All I really really want for Christmas (aside from a Russian Wolf Hound that can convincingly wear an Irish Setter disguise) is Carrie and Quinn to have to escape somewhere into OctoberFest while wearing a dirndl and lederhosen, respectively.  We're already in the silly season so let's just go all out. Prost!

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I am curious as to what Carrie feels for Quinn at this point.  I love the scene of her watching him on TV, her stumbling, ugly-cry slays me.  And the scene of Carrie crying by the glass was...lover-ly.  But I've never been certain of what she feels for Quinn, perhaps it's just now dawning on her what he means to her?

 

Dar had one of my favorite reactions - I'm genuinely surprised to see that he cared for him beyond being his soldier.  I loved F. Murray in that moment.

 

The gang is back together...and all it took was Peter nearly dying.  Sigh.

Edited by lvbalgurl
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I think that even if Carrie has no romantic feelings for Quinn, this is someone who she trusted with her life, which is something she can't say for 99.9999% of the people in her life. He saved her life more than once and she knows that his decision to help her is what started the chain of events that led to his (almost) death. If he hadn't agreed to help her, he wouldn't have been shot outside of the drop box which is why he ran off. Even with completely platonic feelings, it is a lot to know that someone who saved your life has died. If he had been shot in the field ten years from now, she would still feel a huge loss. Add to that her guilt over the role she thinks she played in his death and then add in having to watch that person suffer a very painful death, and I can imagine Carrie being upset but not having any sexual/romantic feelings about him. She may have just been reacting to losing a loyal trustworthy friend. Not that I'm opposed to some Carrie/Quinn loving!

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It was quick but I think they worked in an ADR reference to the Paris attacks:  "We don't want another Paris" or similar words.

Most likely, they were referring to the Charlie Hebdo attack earlier this year. It can't be the recent Paris attacks because the obvious late summer weather doesn't fit. 

 

Also: Can we keep Astrid? I love how Nina Hoss plays her.

Edited by mrspidey
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Quinn alive? Implausible? Oh Snarky Von Snarkersons of little faith: The reason Quinn is still alive is that in order to actually kill him after seeing that the gas didn't do the job, one would have to actually put on the HazMat suit, get it double-checked by someone (oh shit - we just killed the HazMat suit expert!), go into the infected room where the gas is still lolling around looking for someone else to snuff out, shoot him, kick the body a few times, look out the window at fellow terrorists and shrug, leave the infected room, shower while wearing HazMat suit, dispose of HazMat suit, find another HazMat suit for the upcoming gas-attack, pack it, and THEN leave the spooky house. They just didn't have the time.

 

All I really really want for Christmas (aside from a Russian Wolf Hound that can convincingly wear an Irish Setter disguise) is Carrie and Quinn to have to escape somewhere into OctoberFest while wearing a dirndl and lederhosen, respectively.  We're already in the silly season so let's just go all out. Prost!

OK explain the dog thing?

love the idea...

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OK explain the dog thing?

love the idea...

When Allison was standing outside the building smoking (after her guard/babysitter told her he didn't believe the charges against her) she saw a woman with an Irish Setter. The woman appeared to signal her..so I figured that both she and the dog are secret Russian agents.

And - I want to add, for whatever it's worth: I'm not Team Quarrie; I'm Team Quastrid!

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Is there a reason that Alison hasn't been hooked up to a lie detector yet? I know they are not 100% perfect but at the same time the CIA on this show loves to use them and seems to have a ton of faith in them, so why haven't they considered. that?

 

I hope everyone in the real life CIA isn't as dumb as the CIA on this show.  Allison signaling with the old lady right under her babysitter's nose and him not noticing was maddening.  I hope he was just playing her her with the I don't believe it and that he actually noticed the signals and reports back to Saul, but I'm not holding my breath as they've already proven to all be pretty bad spies. 

If the real world CIA is as dumb as this CIA the whole world is screwed. I mean these are the guys who let congressmen drive bombs onto CIA parking lots,then let random people onto the parking lot where they can break into said congressman's car and move it to right outside a main building.

 

Allison was definitely signaling the old lady so she's still playing the game. Since she's free to wander around (albeit with an escort), is Ivan out too? Or is he still being interrogated? I would imagine that Allison can't just cut and run until he's been released. And since she seems to have gotten away with this big fat lie, the Russians are going to keep her in play so she couldn't run even if she wanted to.

I am pretty sure that Ivan is free to leave if he wants to. They said last episode that he has diplomatic immunity so he would have some sort of official cover job working for the Russian embassy. But if the whole plan is to paint him as a defector he is kind of stuck. That said I am wonder why he cares enough about Alison to even consider being a defector and throwing his whole life away, when he could just say that the plan was full of shit, she was his asset, let her go to jail and he can go back to Russia.

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Something has really been bugging me about Allison. I don't know about her being simply found out and turned - I kept thinking about the Syrian whose plane blew up, he detected something strange in Allison's Swiss accent. She flipped it off as German not Swiss, but the way he looked at her as if she was full of shit intrigued me. Was the accent more slavic than tutonic?  Is Allison really an American, or an Amerikan ?  Or am I just mixing my tv dramas? - I could have sworn she swore in Russian when she was duped by Ahmed and blackmailed by Ivan. It just seems a little out of the ordinary to swear in an acquired language not your native tongue in a situation like that. Unless it is her native tongue? We know she's not a true KGB believer since she's materialistic, unlike Elizabeth of The Amerikans, even though she very well could have been an Elizabeth during the cold war....And yet I can't help but wonder if she likes to straddle both worlds with a foothold in Mother Russia.  Since language seems to be a recurring theme, we hear solid German accents coming from the terrorists to re-inforce the idea of home grown terrorism, not Syrian nationals, I just think the choices made for Allison are not by coincidence. 

 

If she really is a double agent, then it would make sense why Ivan is so freaked out. A Russian posing as an American is a whole new set of circumstances that need to be explained by the SVR. For Allison trying to thread the needle of giving the CIA bonafide intel to save her ass while trying not to harm the SVR has got to be crazy.  Since they are on to her, the CIA will be checking thoroughly and can't tolerate getting thrown a dog bone of misinformation. If they find out she's never been CIA but a full throttled Russian national, not simply a mole, The pressure is too great to send her off with a bullet in her head, rather than suffer the embarrassment of an international incident. Saul is right on one thing, she is a sociopath of the first order.

Edited by Andie1
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Edited because I am confused: were there subtitles on the German bar's TV or not? The screen grab from the recap made it look like there were German subtitles, but when I watched, it looked like there was just a static German phrase written on the screen, and nothing that translated the English words to German. Odd...

Edited by N. Bluth
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