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S05.E10: New Normal

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Not that I have a problem with Terrorists being bloodthirsty, but was there a reason why TerrorChief shot ANYONE? It's fine that he feels he can't shoot his (I guess) cousin, but if so, why not put the fear of Allah into him in private (as he did in the car)? Was it really necessary to kill an innocent person* just to prove just how serious he is about killing people?


The BND continue to impress me far more than the CIA - they got annoyed when the CIA suddenly sprung on them that Quinn was missing, but just got over it. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't allow her out to wave at her SVR contact (seriously, even if you think she's innocent, you don't let her out to see ANYONE - it's not surprising they allowed a mole to rise so high in the CIA if that's how they operate.


Yourmumiseasy I hope everyone in the real life CIA isn't as dumb as the CIA on this show.


You have to hope! Like henripootel, unless Dar is giving her the rope to hang herself they're acting like idiots. Did all the competent agents get killed in the previous season's bomb (though you'd think that would make them MORE paranoid, not less)? And while I can see Dar doing his best to sweep the whole thing under the carpet, you don't keep somebody who you suspect of being a mole: you reassign her to a monitoring station at the North Pole and just hope nobody asks WHY she's in exile (or quits, which would be fine, too).


beeble I'm not Team Quarrie; I'm Team Quastrid!


What about Team Astrrie? And on the subject of pairings:


Deanie87  Just like when a doctor gets on the SGH elevator with the 7 other people he slept with, except with no-nonsense Germans and sarin gas!


I may be a prude, but I'd strongly advise against using Sarin gas during sex!


* OK, they're planning on killing thousands of innocents, but as far as they're concerned, those are legitimate targets. The guy he shot was apparently a loyal soldier (though I guess he can look forward to those 76 virgins - or depending on the translation, 76 raisins).

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While I liked this episode, I think there were some writing lapses. Why did Carie give away Quinn's name to the guy she visited? Isn't that against protocol? And speaking against protocol..."Give me your gun"..."Do'h, OK. Here you go!" That with Sol and Dar no longer having any functioning brain cells just bugged me.

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And one other thing: why didn't During suggest they hold the interview at HIS OFFICE? It's unlikely (though not impossible) that the CIA/BND would abduct him in full view of a political campaigner and the fact that he may have valuable intel means they are likely to agree any terms. Yet for some reason a German Civil Rights campaigner trusts a guy who's been responsible (at least in part) for violating those same rights! I guess he did make him pinky swear first...

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I don't think I have ever cried over this show before, but the shot of Carrie and Astrid holding hands kicked my ass.

Just to add to this, I appreciate how, despite the fact that Astrid didn't cry much in this scene, Makeup allowed Maria Bellow to look like she had been crying a long time for this episode. IOW,held back the makeup.

See folks? That's what happens when you allow actresses use their actual faces to, y'know act.

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Just to add to this, I appreciate how, despite the fact that Astrid didn't cry much in this scene, Makeup allowed Maria Bellow to look like she had been crying a long time for this episode. IOW,held back the makeup.

See folks? That's what happens when you allow actresses use their actual faces to, y'know act.

I agree, but I think you mean Nina Hoss, who, by the way, deserves at least an Emmy nomination for her work this season.

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I'm just catching up, apologies for the late replies.


I am neither a "shipper" nor a "crackpot" in my regular life, but all I want out of this show right now is for Carrie and Quinn to have mad passionate sex and be bad-ass together taking down terrorists and other scum for eternity.  Her sister can watch the kid while they're on missions.  


Hello, you just defined my "Homeland" world. How do you feel about adopting me? I'm cheap to feed and will type all your posts for you!


Little historical tidbit.  At the time this happened I was working on a, well, secret military chemical weapons testing ground.  Well, not that secret, but what happened on the base was.  Anyway, I was looking up some information at one facility while a meeting was going on in the next room, and I couldn't help but overhear some things. One was a discussion about this sarin attack in the Tokyo subway - they couldn't believe how few people died (little over a dozen).  They were just sure it should have killed many more, maybe hundreds, so speculation was that the air circulation systems were just so good it dissipated most of the gas.  Lots of folks got dosed but many only lightly.  

This entire post was fascinating -- thank you for sharing that. I grew up on and off Langley for many years, and quickly became accustomed to what was (and was not) okay to ask my Dad's friends about. Your post reminded me of that in an odd way. Glad their surprise was at how many SURVIVED. Always the scenario you want to be that surprises you!


I know that in the past, Claire Danes has been heavily criticized for her frequent use of ugly crying but her reactions to watching the video of Quinn (first at the cafe with the panic and terror as she realized who it was and then later watching the entire video with Astrid, horrified and trying not to cry) and then later finding his presumed dead body were perfect. Carrie let herself react emotionally the first time she watched the video and then she steeled herself to watch it as many times as necessary to find some kind of clue or signal.


I loved that Carrie and Astrid, who have barely tolerated each other with their undisguised mutual dislike, worked together to find Quinn. When Astrid held Carrie's hand as they watched the video, I both loved the emotional support and hated that it took Quinn's (almost) death to bring them together as allies. I totally loved the two of them searching the building together so it would be great to see them teaming up to kick some more ass this season. They don't have to become BFFs and braid each other's hair or anything but I think/hope that going through this together has changed their relationship.


I loved Carrie's reaction. Every scene of it (and was pleasantly surprised that she was shown to be human enough to let herself go enough in public to fall over at witnessing Quinn's apparent death). It was very human and yet very Carrie and contained. But then, I adore Claire Danes and her portrayal here -- Carrie's emotions are her superpower most of the time, not her downfall, so I can't fault her when she has them. Also, Quinn deserved it, dammit. Anything less would have been unseemly.


It was improbable that Quinn lived, but I'm okay with it because I love him.  I do not find it unbelievable, as the recapper suggests, that they left Quinn alive. By the time they realized he was breathing they were ready to bug out, and having to suit up to go into the sarin chamber probably didn't seem worth it. They couldn't shoot him through the glass unless they all wanted to die.


Loved everyone this episode, except Allison, who I am supposed to loathe, and Laura, who I loathe even when she doesn't speak.  Just her "I'm a bad ass because I let a wisp of hair strategically escape every damn day" face annoys me.


This made me laugh because, man, I am so ideologically on her side. I am a total Snowden apologist. But man, Laura just makes me want to throw things at her. Figuratively and fictionally of course. (And then after mentally bombing her, I'm left with reminding myself of how much she reminds me of Maggie Gyllenhaal). It's not a bad thing. It just feels weird on this show.


I didn't find the failure to kill Quinn before the jihadists departed to be particularly unbelievable relative to several other things (e.g., the Sarin exposure would surely have killed Quinn despite the shot; only Carrie can think to meld two data sets together with a special algorithm ). As stated, the jihadists were in a big rush to leave, Quinn was nearly dead, had served his purpose for them, and opening up the still-Sarin-filled chamber would have been complicated and dangerous to them and their mission. Also, it unclear what details about their mission Quinn knows, and as far as Bibi knows, maybe Quinn knows nothing worth disrupting and delaying their mission when he's as good a dead in the near term anyway.


Quinn alive? Implausible? Oh Snarky Von Snarkersons of little faith: The reason Quinn is still alive is that in order to actually kill him after seeing that the gas didn't do the job, one would have to actually put on the HazMat suit, get it double-checked by someone (oh shit - we just killed the HazMat suit expert!), go into the infected room where the gas is still lolling around looking for someone else to snuff out, shoot him, kick the body a few times, look out the window at fellow terrorists and shrug, leave the infected room, shower while wearing HazMat suit, dispose of HazMat suit, find another HazMat suit for the upcoming gas-attack, pack it, and THEN leave the spooky house. They just didn't have the time.


Both of these? This (and more). I was actually impressed at how near-death Quinn was... he wasn't faking for the cameras (when so many shows would have assumed that, with a healthy Quinn privately grinning and waiting for rescue). Instead, he was nearly killed even with proactive and preventive guards/measures. 


Dar had one of my favorite reactions - I'm genuinely surprised to see that he cared for him beyond being his soldier.  I loved F. Murray in that moment.


Okay, this. I was pretty smug and okay about Quinn until we see Dar VISIBLY WEEPING. And I was, like, "What the heck, Dar, you're the Antichrist?!" So then, yeas, I got a little worried. But I adored that they let F. Murray Abraham show that much emotion. (And truly: they should have. Homeland is not soulless. I'm so glad they let him address it.)


I think that even if Carrie has no romantic feelings for Quinn, this is someone who she trusted with her life, which is something she can't say for 99.9999% of the people in her life. He saved her life more than once and she knows that his decision to help her is what started the chain of events that led to his (almost) death. If he hadn't agreed to help her, he wouldn't have been shot outside of the drop box which is why he ran off. Even with completely platonic feelings, it is a lot to know that someone who saved your life has died. If he had been shot in the field ten years from now, she would still feel a huge loss. Add to that her guilt over the role she thinks she played in his death and then add in having to watch that person suffer a very painful death, and I can imagine Carrie being upset but not having any sexual/romantic feelings about him. She may have just been reacting to losing a loyal trustworthy friend. Not that I'm opposed to some Carrie/Quinn loving!


I agree with all of this, although I do think Carrie and Quinn have been doing a dance for years. Quinn fell for Carrie after surveillance (just as Carrie had fallen for Brody). He measured his time, but he had definitely lost objectivity by S4. And now here he is, silently doing what he can for her, including attempted suicide, aghghhg. I just hope he recovers from the sarin. I would then like him to marry Carrie if both choose, or to run off with Nina to have beautiful Teutonic children far away from Dar Adal and Saul.


Meanwhile, happy holidays to all of you!

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  • 4 months later...
On ‎6‎.‎12‎.‎2015 at 7:04 PM, garyvp said:

Otto During knew that, a this time of crisis, he could not keep the knowledge of the phone guy's missives and body language from the interview  from the German authorities. Also, the moment he called Saul he also knew that  either Saul would call in the troops, or that the German BND was bugging Otto (and/or Saul)  and they would send in the troops. Either way, Otto avoids as serious problem with the Govt and has saved face with the staff - Saul said he would honor the agreement and allow phone guys counsel to accompany him, but Otto assumed otherwise. And probably Jonas knew all this as well.

I think you are too cynical about During's motives. If he has sentiments and morality of a normal human being (unlike Laura), he must have been worried about his home town and even be afraid that someone he knew would become an offer and for that reason he certainly wanted to tell knowledge that could prevent the attack although at the same time wanting to protect the quy by insisting that he had a legal counsel. 

I am not so sure as you that During knew of bugging (of course he should have suspected it). However, although it was natural that Germans wanted the quy as it was their capital and their state and it was their right to interrogate him, but their method wasn't good. The quy could have been much more willing to speak with his legal counsel present and feeling himself safe, with a promise that he shouldn't be prosecuted but instead getting safety  against any revenge of terrorists. Making him afraid would only cause just the opposite effect - refusing to tell.     

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On ‎15‎.‎12‎.‎2015 at 10:25 PM, John Potts said:

And one other thing: why didn't During suggest they hold the interview at HIS OFFICE? It's unlikely (though not impossible) that the CIA/BND would abduct him in full view of a political campaigner and the fact that he may have valuable intel means they are likely to agree any terms. Yet for some reason a German Civil Rights campaigner trusts a guy who's been responsible (at least in part) for violating those same rights! I guess he did make him pinky swear first...

A good point.

I can't invent any other reason that the scriptwriters wanted to create suspense for suspense's sake and for that end they made the characters to behave in the way they do. That doesn't mean that the characters can't behave illogically, but even then the audience must be given at least some idea why.    

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  • 2 years later...
On ‎7‎.‎12‎.‎2015 at 7:05 PM, Deanie87 said:

Because it was Quinn, QUINN!!, I let Carrie's emotional breakdown pass, but I'm not going to lie and say that my eyes didn't roll at the first chin tremble.  It is just losing its impact for me.  I'm not saying that she doesn't have reason to cry every single episode, but I just feel like it is such a thing now, and each time brings diminishing returns, at least for me.  Which is a shame, because of course QUINN!!

I agree. The often Carrie cries, the less it matters. 

I remember how an actor I know said: it's not about you crying on the stage, it's to make your audience to cry. 

On ‎10‎.‎12‎.‎2015 at 3:44 AM, Boundary said:

Me too, I prefer Astrid for Quinn. The way she held back, trying to grieve in private whilst being outwardly professional - I dunno, still waters run deep ...

Yes, Astrid the most professional of the three woman spies, without being cold.    

Just like Carrie but unlike Allison who only used Saul and evidently puts her own safety first, Astrid really loves Quinn. 

I must say that I can't understand Laura's reasoning at all. Even if she doesn't care for inhabitants of Berlin (it's not her city after all), she should at least realize that if there is a terror attack of the jihadists, all the Moslems of Berlin would suffer and therefore it's far better that the attack is prevented.    

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