S02.E09: What Did We Do?

[ForeverAlone]

I have loved this show since the beginning, just because it is so crazy, and this episode was no different. Yeah, the crazy just keeps piling on, and I certainly didn't see some of it coming (e.g. Asher running down Sinclair and his father killing himself), but once it started unfolding, I could see that this was headed toward either Annalise shooting herself or getting one of the K5 to shoot her. She was insanely unhinged in that final scene as she was going at each one of her students. Since Connor is one of my favorite characters, I am glad he hasn't gone COMPLETELY over to the dark side and actually murdered someone, I was not surprised that what nearly got him to do it was Annalise bringing Oliver into it and taunting him about sending Oliver to jail. It will be very interesting to see how this season will play out when it returns. 

[possibilities]

I watched the whole episode but I'd be super appreciative of someone walking me through how Annaliese became convinced that placing the phone call about Catherine and then shooting herself was a good decision.

I think the idea was to make it look like Catherine came back to the house and shot Annalise. Why would she shoot Annalise? Because Annalise was no longer representing her, had sided with Caleb, and either Catherine is actually a killer anyway, or she got angry because Annalise is framing her/dumping her as a client.

 

If Annalise is shot, it makes it look like Annalise (and all the people on her side) are innocent-- it takes the focus off the evidence tampering and distracts everyone into being sympathetic to Annalise instead of suspecting her of staging something.

[VCRTracking]

Christophe?!

 

Bonnie and Asher are now made for each other.

[RedheadZombie]

A couple of things happened in the parking garage that I found interesting. Nate saw someone who knew him. And then the nice lady asked Asher if he needed help. As she talks to him, her eyes avert to her left as if she's looking at someone/something else. I couldn't figure out if it was purposeful, or she was just a bad actress.

[twoods]

This show.... So much craziness, but it's too damn entertaining to stop watching. I'm sad that they made Asher a killer and Wes a potential killer again, but the acting was spot on.

It will be interesting to see if Wes did kill his mother, or if Eve and Anni played a role in her committing suicide.

Another Emmy for Viola with that desperation scene with the guys begging to be shot. She continues to amaze me.

[SunFun]

That was just all kinds of ridiculous. 

 

I don't know. I knew from the get-go that this show would be crazy, but it's slowly going from guilty pleasure to just not watchable. These people are all terrible. And like, fine, I can watch a show with terrible characters, but then something else has to change. It's just wayyyy too contrived now. Now we know Annalise and Eve had something to do with Wes's mom's death. The Keating 4 were involved in Sam's murder. Asher has now killed someone. Frank killed Lila. Bonnie killed Rebecca. I'm surprised these characters don't snap with all this crap going on. Shrug. I guess I am just finding it less enjoyable as the series drags on. 

I'm with you. I wanted to like this show, have admired Viola Davis, so I went into it with great expectations. However, I keep rolling my eyes while watching, and laughing when I'm supposed to be awestruck by the "drama". It's too much, with even more too much piled on top. Not my thing.

 

Bye HTGAWM.

[Dowel Jones]

On the lighter side:  There's a scene early on, just after Asher's dad's body has been found,  where Keating is in her office,staring at her phone, and the voiceover for the next scene is played out. "Get me every bit of dirt you can on the Judge..."  The first thing that went through my mind was, damn, Suri has really branched out....

[Anela]

Which episode was that in? I have no memory of it happening and I would have expected to remember something like that, but maybe it was short and I missed it?

I can't remember the episode, but I saw it, too. I asked a friend about that, before coming here to see if anyone had mentioned it. 

 

The end was a bit much for me, too. I liked the others not going along with it (until she hooked Wes with the truth about his girlfriend), but I didn't think it was exciting. 

I was waiting for the scene with Asher, that never came (the one mentioned above). 

[healthnut]

I'm not sure where the show goes from here either. Too much blood on everyone's hands and it is way too messy. I don't think it was necessary to leak the documents and have Asher's father commit suicide or Sinclair show up at Nate's precinct with video of him changing Philip's record. I feel like there is nowhere for this show or these characters to go.

[ChuckWagon]

I'm not sure where the show goes from here either. Too much blood on everyone's hands and it is way too messy. 

 

This.  Dealing with the burden of Sam had to have been bad enough, but how do you function now knowing about Sam, Rebecca, Sinclair, Nate, Catherine and Annalise. You can only keep secrets so long. I've been telling Mr. ChuckWagon that his chopped meat is from King's (it's not) for years and it's just about killing me.  Amusing me to no end too, but you can only keep something bottled up so long before you blow...and then where do you go?  Bigger, better carnage?

 

I'm hoping for more backstory on how Bonnie/Frank/Annalise formed.  

[DearEvette]

And I'm PISSED that what made Wes shoot Annalise was his fucking Rebecca obsession.  Ugh, will Rebecca ever just go away?

 

Girl you and me both!

 

That last scene was interesting. I wonder if my theory may be right. Also, kudos to casting for getting a child actor that resemblem Alfred Enoch.

 

 

Not only did this kid look like Alfred Enoch, he had the same speech patterns.  His line delivery was a dead on mimicry of older Wes.  It was uncanny.  And having said that, he looked like a right little sociopath.  Did he kill his own mother?  What did Annalise and Eve do?   And BTW, seeing Annalise in braids was probably as shocking as seeing Wes shoot her.  LOL.

 

This show is crazy. I love it. I loved Annalise telling Asher that they killed Sam and furiously reminding them that the whole reason everything has happened was because they killed Sam. In a warped way it was nice that Annalise was determined to protect Nate. Now all the students, Bonnie, and Frank are all killers. Annalise is the only non-killer in the bunch.

 

Naw, I think only Bonnie, Frank, Asher and Wes are technically killers.  Annalise, Connor, Michaela and Laurel are all accessories and cover-uppers.

 

When all is said and done, this all stems from Annalise protecting Wes.  Which I find very interesting.  Was Wes' mother abusive and is that why he looked so distant in the flashback scene?  Given what we've learned about Bonnie this season, I wonder if Wes is another Bonnie to Annalise?  If Annalise  becomes overly involved when the cases she becomes involved in have some abuse at their center. 

 

I must say that even when you stop and think about the show it is utterly ridiculous but damn if it isn't exciting tv.   The music at the top of the show and later when Annalise was exhorting them to all kill her was perfection and the lighting... it was so tense and atmospheric.  Really good technical scene crafting.  But then you add in all the feels....I did not need to be that churned up that late with the next day being a work-day!  LOL.

 

Also,  I am team Connor-Michaela.  Her calling him first even before Annalise, and then her jumping in front of the gun because on some level she thought he might be tempted to pull the trigger and she didn't want that for him,  and finally her running after him and pleading for him not to have left her  -- i am loving the evolution of their friendship.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm hoping for more backstory on how Bonnie/Frank/Annalise formed.  

 

Another flashforward we have not seen yet:

 

Frank takes Annalise to the hospital and goes all the way to the operating room until he is told to leave.  He acts passionately concerned the entire time.  As soon as he is told to leave the hospital he walks away completely calm.  This might be where he brings Catherine to a gravesite to bury her?

 

The calm he feels as he walks away from the hospital is very creepy.  Now how does anyone explain that

Edited November 20, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Free]

Obviously SOMEONE has to go down for all the murders. If they would just get away with every murder cover-up, it would get boring. So far, they have done a good job at showing the emotional consequences, with everyone spiralling out of control, with Conor and Wes being the most affected, but now the time has come for someone to go down legally as well.

 

Agreed, it's very complicated so it's only a matter of time before something slips.

[krimimimi]

First: fantastic acting on everyone's parts. Wow!

Second: sorry it's long, but you guys made a lot of good points...

 

I loved the scene where Bonnie told [Asher], though. I'm kind of confused as to why it was her who was delivering the news, but I thought they both nailed that scene. I really felt for Asher, and it was obvious that despite what Bonnie said before, she still really cares about him.

I know people had predicted that Annalise would plan on getting shot as part of the plan to put Catherine in jail, but I thought that was just the most insane plan that made zero sense, and even though that's what happened, I *still* think it's the most insane plan that makes zero sense.

[...]

And it makes even LESS sense to me that she's doing this to protect Nate, since I've never really seen that she loves him that much. I know some people disagree with this, but I really haven't seen/felt a connection between them, so her ridiculous plan makes even less sense to me.

And then there's Wes...I was also surprised that he was willing to kill Annalise - because really, he shot to kill. I also don't really get why Wes is willing to do all of these crazy things for Rebecca, although I guess that ship sailed a long time ago and at this point we pretty much just have to accept that he has zero common sense when it comes to her.

I thought they did a decent job of explaining why Bonnie was the one to tell Asher in the ep. His mother blamed him for his father's death, Anna & Frank were seriously occupied elsewhere, none of the others, if they even knew, even had his number. (assholes.) The police probably informed the mother; they don't usually go knocking on all family members' doors. That was her job. (bitch.)

 

The getting shot plan served four purposes 1) it (greatly) confused the narrative (just see all of our WTF! reactions for proof...) 2) it got EMTs on the scene, and their first duty is to keep her alive and screw the evidence (which they do in style) 3) it lent credence to her future statements/911 call as to the occurrences on that evening and 4) it put Nate free and clear (until that dumbass put himself in the geographical vicinity). I thought it was an elegant, if painful solution. She said it herself - they needed chaos for the cover up to work. This got it in spades.

 

Without diving into the "who does she love, if anyone" aspect, I'd say that Anna has a strong, rigidly hierarchical sense of duty, even in the absence of conventional mores. She screwed Nate over before, and his current situation happened once again (in a limited scope) because he helped her with the Philip problem, and I was relieved to see she didn't throw him to the wolves again. It would have been so easy this time. At the very least, it helped "rescue" her character (a bit). I also think people underestimate what loneliness and the need for a connection does to people. I really liked that they included a scene of Nate taking flak from a colleague. I'd bet his days are full of it. And to me, that helps explain why he came 'round again. And that she, too, probably welcomed it.

 

From the way the little boy played it at the end, I'd be willing to believe Wes is a sociopath who maybe even killed his mom. (In that short scene, he twice made references that it couldn't have been him 1) "she hurt herself" and 2) "when I found her", which is weird. I trust the writers enough that weird is deliberate, even if only for red herrings' sake. Joy!)

 

Damn. Those stupid silly kids got Analise all twisted. She has lost her damn mind, all because Wes killed Sam. And she was dropping people's secrets left and right. Wes continues to be an idiot and Connor continues to piss me off. Nothing is stopping any of them from going to cops...except themselves. 

I thought that particular truth bomb was perfectly delivered. The M-4 didn't realize how not supporting Asher was putting their own asses in danger, time was of the essence, and they were about to endanger themselves. Which also didn't paint them in a pretty light - cover ups are cool as long as we benefit from them (or in Michaela's case: get to decide who does. shame, girl!), but not for ol' Doucheface. Oh no. What entitled brats. (To be clear, I liked that. It made sense. I don't need people to always be likable, but I like my characters to make sense.) Plus they now knew his deal, I liked that she put them on even footing. It will do good things for the characters in the coming eps.

 

And *AMEN* about going to the cops. They really need to take a good long look at themselves. You're all self-serving, morally bankrupt animals. Geez.

 

The "four of them" did not kill Sam. Wes did. I know they still broke the law with everything that came after, but saying they all killed him makes it sound like a lynch mob or some kind of premeditated group attack. It was not. This lack of distinction bugs me (obviously), for some reason.

Other thoughts. Both of Asher's parent are horrible in their own ways, which, granted, is relative on this show. Of course, that doesn’t gives him the right to kill anyone. Even annoying DA. I did not see Asher being a killer coming, even with all that grief and hurt and anger.

Kid Wes/Christoff is a much better actor than adult Wes. Also, what did Analise and Eve do?

Because, my friend, that is a distinction that makes a hell of a difference, even if not legally at this point. Your moral compass is true enough to get bugged by that, and that's a good thing. (Still it made sense in the scene, and here's hoping they do an explanation scene in the upcoming eps, instead of a dreaded clip show, that points some of these truths out while catching us viewers up. It would also be nice to have some confirmation as to how the show runners see things. Just having your characters say things doesn't make them true.)

 

Ultimately, I'd say DA Smugface (RIP, glad to see her go, but once again - excellent performance all season on her part!) died from being a rotten human being. If she had just said "Sorry for your loss," I'm sure that scene would have played out differently. Actions have consequences, and people often don't think about how what they do affects others, because they don't care and aren't forced to. While that's certainly not something that should carry a death sentence, she's also not entirely without blame here.

 

Exactly. Connor and Michaela can pop off all they want but they are horrible people who are only concerned with their self-interests. Connor's been acting like a bitch-baby all season, yet he never outs himself. Even Oliver doesn't know the truth. Michaela on the other hand was willing to cover-up three murders for the man who just gave her a HBI, but everything else is just too much for the delicate princess. You know it's bad when the member of the Keating 5 I have the most respect for is Laurel.

His attitude was either shock or a subtle way to set up for the reveal that Annalise has felt guilty for Wes's loss all these years when she never owed him anything because Wes killed his mother, because he is a sociopath -- it would explain a lot about his obsession with that horrid Rebecca.

Preach. Although I actually kinda like Laurel. She won me over by not being a whiny little bitch baby. She's as guilty or innocent as Connor and Michaela, but she owns her guilt like a lady. Good on you, girl. Not the most ethical lady in the world mind, but at least not in complete denial about her role in things.

 

Someone pointed out that she and Frank are still so thin as characters, and I think part of that is the others have been allowed more honest friendly interactions that help us get to know them. By contrast, those two have their equivalent of those scenes together, where we can all see them not being honest with each other, and it really keeps us from getting to know them. But you also get to know a character by their actions, and I think we've seen enough of them in stress situations to get a feeling for them by now. That's an advantage to a stereo-/archetype, we're familiar enough with what we are seeing, that we don't always need it spelled out.

 

Agree on Wes. It would be one of a couple of interesting stories to tell, that also retroactively help explain how Anna got into this in season 1. Thereby yielding more instead of less sense. Oooo!

 

Bottom line, Anna has finally lost her shit and maybe that explains Franks pissed off look when he leaves the hospital.

 

Now that I think about it, I'm not even sure that Wes told Nate about shooting Anna, I can't wait till Feb.

Because in the flash forward, when they are in Nate's car, he's calling Anna's cell to check on her and quite frankly, when Wes shot Anna, everyone else had already left the mansion. Didn't Laurel leave?

I thought Frank went to the hospital to get some of Anna's blood to help frame Katherine. In the flash forward where she wakes up and runs, I thought she had blood on her top?

 

Laurel was still there when Wes shot her, because she had to beg him to stop (which wasn't working.). So Wes, Laurel and Anna know he did it. The others (C&M) return after Anna was shot, so they should know, but they at least know it was one of those three (W,L&A). I don't think we know if Nate knows the score or not.

 

And this gets me every time I think about it.  There's literally no blood on her hands. 

 

Unbelievable.

Technically, there is, and it's plenty. It's just all her own.

 

The thing is, Sinclair said that Tiffany suffered because of what Asher's father did and that Asher's father was a terrible person, so I'm thinking Asher didn't participate and maybe his father was covering for more than Asher being a drunk who let the rape happen on his watch. We don't know what Asher's mother knows or doesn't know about that night. She may know only what her husband told her.

It was at the Dad's place, and he may well have been somewhere on the premises, which by the logic that makes a passed out drunk Asher culpable (assuming that version was true) would make the father even more so. (Turning a blind-eye. Underage drinking etc. Dad probably even bought the booze.)

 

You know, though, with all those meetings in Asher's car that had Sinclair blackmailing and threatening him, who knew that it would be her ultimate demise?

[...]

Wes shoots Annalise and almost kills her until she says his real name. Damn, Wes, you cold! But technically, he's the only one that has actively killed someone in the Keating 4 (I don't call it Keating 5 since they seem to not care in any way about Asher; they don't even have his phone number!). But please, please let Rebecca be laid to rest once Frank shows them the body, and please let us end this Rebecca arc. I'm done with her now. I will say mini Wes looks and acts so much like Alfred Enoch, it's kind of scary actually. It feels like they used some sort of anti-aging machine and made Alfred 10 years younger with all of his current memories in tact. Wes does seem like a total sociopath, though. Mini Wes was just so cold and so detatched from the fact that his mom might be dead, but he was just saying the right words.

Nice catch on the car.

 

Agreed on the Wes reading. At the least, it was deliberately played that way. I think this is about the only way to make Wes interesting to me again. We get scenes of what led to Anna feeling she owed him one. (And more flashback Famke.) Actually, that's totally going to happen (if her schedule allows). They'll give us Anna&Eve's smoldery past, showing why, wracked with guilt, there is no present for them, and Nate&Anna in the present, and all shippers everywhere will be happy. Except those wanting Anna with Wes. (And y'all just ain't right. ;-))

[buffy11bnl]

I'd actually gotten the impression from the scene with young Wes that his mom had either abused him or had a substance abuse problem? It seemed like he was used to adults bullshitting him/not being able to trust them and that was why he was so closed off? 

[ChuckWagon]

 

I thought Frank went to the hospital to get some of Anna's blood to help frame Katherine.

 

This! Yes!  Now that I think about it, he does lean in to body hug her while she's being wheeled on the gurney, right?  While we knew he was acting, even that act would be considered over acting for Frank.  Everything is a means to an end. Or, at least to the next stage gate because don't see any kind of an end in sight.

 

 

I'd be willing to believe Wes is a sociopath

 

This too.  He does form bonds, but not very strong ones....and at least Connor/Michela/Laurel showed some moral compass in this episode.  Wes, not so much.  He never seems to break a sweat either.  Whereas all the rest of the K5 show a great range of emotion over what's going on, Wes seems to stay pretty even.  Reminds me of Hannibal Lechter whose blood pressure doesn't even rise while killing. Albeit he is a psychopath.

[nutty1]

It's bizarre, but I love this crazy show!

 

Asher purposely killing Sinclair, though in rage, was worse than Wes killing Sam to protect someone else. Poor Asher. In the dark until now. I thought the actor's acting was excellent last night.

My big question is.....she was killed in a parking garage. They put her bloody body in the trunk. So what about all the blood on the parking garage floor? It certainly will be noticed. And Bonnie left her car near there, because they drove up in Asher's car. And that lady saw Asher sitting in his car right where the blood will be!

 

I also think the scene of Asher walking into the police station will amount to nothing. Does anyone remember if he was wearing the same clothes?

[Primetimer]

In the winter finale, Annalise knows just what to say to get blown away.

Read the story

[Pollock]

Wow, just wow.  So Wes' real name is Christophe.  

 

And I'm PISSED that what made Wes shoot Annalise was his fucking Rebecca obsession.  Ugh, will Rebecca ever just go away?

 

Was Wes actually trying to kill Annalise over stupid dopey girl?  He purposely aimed higher than her leg, I thought.  I'd be scared of him, and they're almost all pretty reprehensible for various things, but him...  I don't know.  Crazy obsessive impulsive <> want to be around.

I think he didn't shoot Annalise over Rebecca but because of her lies. We were given two seasons of Wes mommy issues and Annalise, whom he trusted with his life basically and quite literally, keeps lying to his face. Each time he confronts her, each time he falls for it, each time he's proven he placed his trust in the wrong hands. It was too much. 

Wes obssession with Rebecca is fare fetched so it became creepy (and annoying to most of the viewers) but I truly think this time it had nothing to do with his current situation and that it was way more personal than that.

[kdm07]

I don't watch this show expecting a quality drama. What I love about this show, and Empire, is it's epic soapiness. The difference between the two shows this season is that HTGAWM is still trying to tie things together and making coherent storylines whereas Empire isn't (which I won't go too much into).

 

Now that I've had time to process this episode, here are my thoughts:

 

- I didn't like Asher's mother. At all. He wasn't grieving the right way so he doesn't care? Really? His parents explain why Asher is the way he is.
- Frank and Bonnie (and to some extent Laurel) are something else. They stayed calm throughout everything and barely flinched even as Annalise herself was beginning to lose control.
- I'm with Annalise here when she called out K4 (poor Asher, up until now, he always on the periphery). None of them, yes you too Connor, are completely innocent. Is she taking more than her pound of flesh from them? Absolutely but these people are old enough to know that once Sam was dead, they could've easily gone to the police and ended all of this mess right there and then. They didn't.
- The only reason I still care about Wes/Christophe is because I want to know what exactly Annalise and Eve did way back when. The guy himself irritates me.
- Annalise was definitely unraveling tonight but she still seemed to be thinking ahead as much as one can when every time their phone rings, it's another huge problem.
- Lastly, February 11th is too far away but I guess I'll just deal.

Edited November 20, 2015 by kdm07

[vanarnd1]

This.  Dealing with the burden of Sam had to have been bad enough, but how do you function now knowing about Sam, Rebecca, Sinclair, Nate, Catherine and Annalise. You can only keep secrets so long. I've been telling Mr. ChuckWagon that his chopped meat is from King's (it's not) for years and it's just about killing me.  Amusing me to no end too, but you can only keep something bottled up so long before you blow...and then where do you go?  Bigger, better carnage?

 

I'm hoping for more backstory on how Bonnie/Frank/Annalise formed.  

I agree, I think the issue is the show has spent a season and half giving us backstory on these characters, but now at this point how can they all stay around?

With Wes they just gave us a tease into Annalise's involvement in his childhood, but how can he even co-exist on the show at this point? Are they somehow going to have him work on Annalise's cases even though he shot her in the chest? How would Connor go back to working for Annalise at this point? The circumstances have gotten so far out of control that there has to be a shakeup of some kind, but changing too much could damage the show as the cast is really great overall.

I was floored by last night's episode, but I am worried how they plan to keep things going in the second half of the season

[pitchy]

I also think the scene of Asher walking into the police station will amount to nothing. Does anyone remember if he was wearing the same clothes?

 

I thought that scene at the police station was from the time Sinclair was egging him on to turn against the others ...

 

Whatever, last night was totally confusing.  But one thing makes sense, and the last episode is no crazier than the first one.  We've accepted for two seasons that these Annaliese-hand-picked, cream of the crop law students would -- after one of them had hit her husband over the head in defense of the girl he was throttling -- then decide, when the blow resulted in death, to *actually* DISMEMBER his dead body in order to hide what had happened and consider burning the body (I'm confused, though, as to just what they did do to the body but I was in total disbelief over it and almost stopped watching the show, which I've since found intriguing and beautifully directed/acted, but the writing makes no sense.)

 

That initial cold-blooded cover-up is on Annaliese.  It started with an insane premise -- that a law professor would have her students dismember her husband to 'protect' one of them against what would have been just a self-defense case -- and has stayed true to that craziness.  The last scenes grew out of the utter insanity of the first scenes.

 

  It's one thing to try to protect Wes/Cristophe out of guilt for something that happened in the past, but she made the rest of them (minus Asher) cold-blooded body-hackers, just to protect one of them from being involved in a self-defense case.  And then the writers decide "Why not make Asher a killer?"...  In fact, he's the only student who intentionally uses a lethal weapon against someone who was merely making him feel bad.

 

  At the heart of it, the show is about the derangement that can come from being chronically abused (whether physically or emotionally) when young and then again, when older.

 

  If I think of the show as just a giant, well-directed semi-human puzzle, I enjoy it -- as a series of vignettes that grab me and as a wildly-irrational mystery series.  But as a coherent show that makes any sense?  Not even slightly.

 

  I see it from the level of a child asking "Tell me a story!" and then this series tells me this long, two-season story, and I'm glued and thinking, "What?  Wow!  Huh?" ...

 

Edited November 20, 2015 by pitchy

[chabelisaywow]

So many deaths to cover up...

 

After watching, it reminded me of the song "There was an old lady who swallowed a fly...."

[Neurochick]

I am enjoying the show.

 

I'm not worried about what's going to happen next season, or what will happen that there have been so many murders.  To me this show is crazy, like a telenovella, over the top madness and I love it.  If I want to watch realism, I'll watch a documentary.

 

Hey, I watched Law and Order for years and they NEVER got the grand jury right, at all.  I've watched countless movies and TV shows where they don't get the geography of NYC correct, but if the story is good, I don't care.  

 

I can't wait to see what happens next.  

 

But Wes, enough with Rebecca already, he knew deep down inside that Rebecca was probably dead.  I wonder if Wes/Christophe killed his own mother.

 

Conner keeps screaming about how he can't deal with all these murders, yet he keeps coming back for more.

 

Viola killed it last night, Annalise's desperation, yet still trying to stay in control was harrowing.  

 

This show is so bizarre, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that she and Frank had some sort of strange affair and he's still carrying a torch for her.

[blackwing]

Very confusing.  I'm still not sure exactly what happened.  Granted, this is a TV show, and without stupid things happening, we have no show.  But so many things made absolutely no sense.

 

Caleb finds a gun in Catherine's room.  Catherine goes into hiding.  Normal person:  Call police and tell them you found a gun.  This show:  Let's fake a shooting!

 

Philip's DNA found at crime scene.  DA says "but he has a clean record".  Normal person:  How about you try again?  Take him in for questioning again.  This show:  Let's fake his record to make him look like a criminal!

 

Asher runs over Sinclair in a fit of rage.  Normal person:  Faces the justice.  (Semi) Normal person:  It was an accident, I didn't know she was behind me.  This show:  Let's take her body and throw it off a third story balcony to make it look like that killed her!

 

I truly don't understand, even within the context of this show, what led to the whole "let's make it look like Catherine did it all" scenario.  Caleb had found a gun.  They had evidence that Philip and Catherine were in contact when she previously said she had never heard of him.  Catherine runs away.  Why wouldn't they have just gone to the police with all of this evidence and have them arrest Catherine?  OK, so Nate was about to be fired for doctoring a record.  So what.  He explains that he did it because the DA wasn't taking the threat of Philip seriously enough.  He doesn't need to be a cop, he could just go and work for Annalise.

 

So the whole thing that Annalise cooked up was to have Asher bring Sinclair's body to the house.  Dump her body from the balcony.  Annalise gets shot in the leg.  And they blame it all on Catherine?  Doesn't compute at all.  Why go to all the trouble to pin it on Catherine when she was already looking pretty guilty based on actual events?  Why would Annalise call 911 and say that she was shot by Catherine?  How is she going to explain that later?

 

I am also confused about the whole Wes/Christophe thing.  First off, Wes is about 22 isn't he?  The flashback said 10 years ago.  Did that kid look 12?  He looked younger to me.  Also, does Wes really know who he is or has that somehow been blocked from his memory?  If his mom died when he was 12, who took care of him?  Have they ever said it before on the show and I just missed it?  How did he not know that Annalise and Eve were somehow involved?

[Lady Calypso]

A couple of things happened in the parking garage that I found interesting. Nate saw someone who knew him. And then the nice lady asked Asher if he needed help. As she talks to him, her eyes avert to her left as if she's looking at someone/something else. I couldn't figure out if it was purposeful, or she was just a bad actress.

 

I noted this as well, and of course this will come back to bite both Asher and Nate in the butts. Now, depending on if the police figure it out, or if the lady Asher talked to saw the body underneath the car, Nate may or may not be implicated for that death. Nate just looked shifty when he ran into that guy that he knew, but I know that was mostly just for show. But Sinclair was killed hours after she met with Nate, and Nate was shown to be in the police station so technically, unless they don't narrow down the time of death, he should be freed from being a suspect pretty quickly. I think it had to be poignant that Asher himself said that there was no way they could get away with it, due to the differences in the deaths, with the others dismissing it as shock. So I do expect Sinclair's death to not be bought as a 'Catherine kill', like Annalise thinks it could be. Which actually would be different, since they were able to pin Sam's death on Rebecca and it sort of stuck. Also, add in the fact that Asher doesn't seem so compliant on letting these cover ups happen and since we do see him confessing to something in the flashforwards, I do hope it's him confessing to Sinclair's murder. Now, that would be a twist! I think the show will expect us to think that Asher's now confessing to some other crime, like the Trotter Lake thing or some new thing. But how different would it be if he confessed about himself? 

[Chrissytd]

 

I am also confused about the whole Wes/Christophe thing.  First off, Wes is about 22 isn't he?  The flashback said 10 years ago.  Did that kid look 12?  He looked younger to me.  Also, does Wes really know who he is or has that somehow been blocked from his memory?  If his mom died when he was 12, who took care of him?  Have they ever said it before on the show and I just missed it?  How did he not know that Annalise and Eve were somehow involved?

The kid looked 12 to me.

 

The age part confused me too but for a different reason. Wes is supposed to be 27 but 10 years earlier would make him 17. Unless the writers changed his age from the initial script, or he lied about his age.

[krimimimi]

(Sidebar: The only thing I wasn't clear on this week was why Annalise leaked the news about Asher's dad. If you understand that, please tweet me.)

 

@Mark Blankenship thanks for the recap. I don't tweet, but here goes:

In 2x06 "Two Birds, One Millstone" about 2/3 of the way through

 

Asher: I thought you were gonna fix this. Everything. Because I have my dad to deal with and I have to talk to him at some point, even though I have no idea what to say. And he's a judge, you know. He can find ways to take you down if he wants to. The dude is persistent. I know he hates you. He'll make it his business...

 

Annalise: Get me all the dirt we have on judge Millstone, Bonnie. That means every file in the David Allen case. Frank, find any evidence of malfeasance we can use against him.

Frank: On it.

Bonnie: Annalise, you promised Asher you wouldn't do this.

[...]

Annalise: Do you like your job? I think you do. I just don't think you love it.

Prosecutor: Is this a therapy session now?

Annalise: Career counseling. You're gonna drop the charges against Jill Hartford on the grounds of self-defense, and you're gonna see to it that Emily Sinclair ends her witch hunt into me and my staff.

Prosecutor: Wait, now I'm doing you two favors?

Annalise: Or as I prefer to call it, two birds, one Millstone.

Prosecutor: Millstone?

Annalise: Federal judge Millstone. There's enough evidence in there to charge him with multiple counts of corruption. And just like that, you're the ballsy prosecutor running for state's attorney on an anti-corruption ticket. I'd vote for you. You just need to free my client.

 

Basically, Asher made it clear to Annalise that his Dad would try to destroy her, and had enough clout to make headway in that goal. DA Smugface was also breathing down her neck, and the prosecutor was threatening to charge her as an accessory after the fact in the murder her client committed. So she offered Judge Millstone up on a plate to the prosecutor, mostly to save her/their own necks, while making it look like it was for her client.

 

Presumably at the start of this episode, the prosecutor is now acting on that info offscreen (I don't believe that was shown), which created the headlines, and those in turn led to Judge Millstone's suicide.

[discoprincess]

 

 

Naw, I think only Bonnie, Frank, Asher and Wes are technically killers.  Annalise, Connor, Michaela and Laurel are all accessories and cover-uppers.

 

Could the students be implicated because a murder happened during the commission of a felony? Did the Scooby gang break into the house? Sam did ask them to leave at some point; would that be felonious trespassing because they did not leave? Pennsylvania does have a felony murder rule. 

Edited November 20, 2015 by discoprincess

[Ms Blue Jay]

Thank you for explaining, but I STILL don't get how the whole mess with Asher's Dad and Annalise started.

Why would Asher's Dad want to destroy Annalise?  How did this whole thing start?  

[Artsda]

That was a lot to process. 

 

I loved the 5 this episode. I figured at some point they'd have Asher find out about what really happened with Sam but what a way to have him find out. The way she just blurted it out with her back faced to Asher made me double take as to what she really just said. I wish Conner would have pointed out though that it was really Wes and all over dumb Rebecca who he know shot Annalise over. 

 

Seriously Wes, when did Rebecca become worth all this to you? 

[krimimimi]

Re Felony Murder. (@discoprincess) One of P.TV's legal eagles most kindly answered this a few eps back. I remember because I had asked, and it totally helped me get the difference. (Thought it would be a shame not to recognize their hard work.) This is all thanks to Chicago Redshirt.

 

From S02.E07: I Want You To Die (emphasis mine)

Sam - killed by Wes with Michaela, Connor, Laurel and Rebecca having direct involvement in the coverup and all potentially subject to murder charges under the felony murder rule. Rebecca and Nate are guilty of murdering Sam under felony-murder (since the two plotted to have Rebecca break into the Keating home and steal Sam's computer data, and the death occurred in the course of committing that felony). Anni, Frank and Bonnie all have potential exposure as accessories after the fact. As far as we know, the public presumably thinks either that Anni and/or Nate killed Sam. That is what the prosecution has thought, anyway.

 

Once again from Chicago Redshirt in the Prof. Annalise Keating: How to Be a Badass thread (formatting went a little wonky...)

Don't want to go on a rant here about felony murder.

But to clarify, to be found guilty of felony murder requires that the person has knowingly agreed to be a participant in the underlying felony.

YMMV, but in my mind there is a pretty strong question as to any of the M4 agreeing to participate in the underlying felony here, Rebecca's breaking in to the Keating home and stealing data from Sam's computer.

We know that none of them knew in advance of Rebecca's plan to sneak in and steal the data. (Only Nate did, so funnily enough, he is guilty of murdering Sam.)

Rebecca lies and says she didn't find anything on Sam's computer. Do the M4 believe her? If so, they can't have the guilty mindset to participate in the theft of data from Sam's computer.

Assuming they believe that the flash drive has something stolen from Sam's computer, what is their intent in what happens next? To attempt to deprive Sam of the data or some other criminal intent? In such a case, they could be found guilty of felony murder. The trouble is there is not much evidence of this. Wes says something to the effect of "Get the flash drive" and Laurel does get it. Were they trying to do that to see if they could calm Sam down? Or for some other non-guilty mindset reason? If so, they would not be.

Neither Michaela nor Connor show no real evidence of the intent to help Rebecca get away with taking Sam's computer data. So I don't think that there is enough evidence to try to get either on felony murder.

Of course, this is largely moot, as their actions in the post-killing cover-up would make them look guilty.

Edited November 20, 2015 by krimimimi

[Cindylou]

 

 

Conner keeps screaming about how he can't deal with all these murders, yet he keeps coming back for more

Didn't Conner detective/F*ck that guy last year to get info from him at that one office, and when the guy found out he was gonna be "found out" he jumped out the window????  Conner's hands aren't technically clean here either.... all the K4 are dirty

 

I can't wait until Feb!  I love this show, it is pure entertainment and Viola can act the shit out of this!

[represent]

I wonder why Anna picked Connor and Micheala?

I get why she sought out the other three Asher, Laurel and Wes, but why Connor and Michaela?

 

Also, did I hear correctly, when Anna said to Laurel something to the effect of that she, Laurel, had gotten through something with her father that was much worse therefore, shooting her should be easy compared to that?  

Edited November 20, 2015 by represent

[Dowel Jones]

Whatever their plan for the pistol, it's a house of cards that should collapse with the slightest breath from the police.  In real life, firing a gun leaves a bit of residue on the holder's arm, which can be measured.  If the detectives suspect something is amiss with their stories (I'm shocked!  Shocked!), they might move to test for residue on the suspect.  Finding none on the accused party, they might move over to the others in the house.  No bueno, folks.

 

Everything else turning out in their favor in the long run, what's next semester going to be like at school?

[morgankobi]

Whatever their plan for the pistol, it's a house of cards that should collapse with the slightest breath from the police.  In real life, firing a gun leaves a bit of residue on the holder's arm, which can be measured.  If the detectives suspect something is amiss with their stories (I'm shocked!  Shocked!), they might move to test for residue on the suspect.  Finding none on the accused party, they might move over to the others in the house.  No bueno, folks.

 

Everything else turning out in their favor in the long run, what's next semester going to be like at school?

Well, you might be forgetting the most important fact-Frank is the one staging Catherine. Frank hasn't dropped the ball yet! Not only will he likely take care of that, it would probably be weeks before anyone could come up with a reason to check Wes. Always bet on Frank.

And to those who suggested that Frank grabbed Anni at the hospital to get some of her blood to put on Catherine? Brilliant!

 

Asher sure was lucky he ran all the way over the ADA. When Bonnie showed up, it became clear he hadn't even gotten out of the car to see if she was alive. How did he know she wasn't partly sticking out the back of the car?

[represent]

 

And to those who suggested that Frank grabbed Anni at the hospital to get some of her blood to put on Catherine? Brilliant!

YES!  This is right on the money.

 

I love Frank.

 

I just want to know about his history with Anna, I guess that will come in due time. I'm pretty sure they'll get to it when it's truly necessary which unfortunately, might mean some really bad shit will have to go down between he and Anna.

[kdm07]

Also, did I hear correctly, when Anna said to Laurel something to the effect of that she, Laurel, had gotten through something with her father that was much worse therefore, shooting her should be easy compared to that?  

 

Yes she did. The show has mentioned it before (can't remember when) but Laurel's father seems to be some kind of mob boss so I think Laurel may have seen her fair share of despicable things.

[represent]

 

Yes she did. The show has mentioned it before (can't remember when) but Laurel's father seems to be some kind of mob boss so I think Laurel may have seen her fair share of despicable things.

Really, the word "mob" were in the dialogue?

[Blue Plastic]

This show is basically a soap opera on steroids but with better production quality and acting so maybe that's why it appeals to me.  I haven't watched any daytime soaps in years but this fills my demented little craving for shocking revelations and twisted relationships!  Love it.

 

I would like all the Keating denizens to be able to stay on the show but not sure how that is going to work out.  This show has gotten so convoluted I can't even explain it to myself anymore.  I couldn't quite remember why Annaliese gave the prosecutor's office the information on Asher's dad.  No wonder the room started spinning around Annaliese while she was on the phone.  She's got way too many irons in the fire.

 

How can the woman in her car in the parking garage not have seen Sinclair's body under Asher's car?

 

Now I see why Michaela's reaction to Sinclair's body dropping off the roof was relatively understated in the flashbacks.  She knew the body was up there and going to be thrown off, so although it was a horrible thing to see it wasn't a total surprise to her.

 

Too bad they couldn't give us an answer to the Hapstall murders, but what they actually promised is to show what happened to Annaliese so I'm not too surprised they still seem to be withholding a lot of stuff.  It was only until I started reading here after the show that I realized how many flashbacks we didn't actually get to in this episode.  This show!

 

I love the idea that Wes shot Annaliese more for her lies than for the fact that Rebecca is dead per se.  I think that's right on.  Yes he was weirdliy obsessed with Rebecca, but he actually hasn't seemed to be all that torn up after she disappeared.  Annaliese even pointed out how she lied to him about it.  I like the idea that he's pissed off about being lied to better than the idea that he's still pining for the love of his life Rebecca.

 

Maybe Annaliese and Eve were defending someone for murder and tried to pin it on Wes' mother and she killed herself or was murdered thanks in part to their actions.  However, since that's what Annaliese does for pretty much every case we see, that might not be it.  I'm not necessarily seeing mini Wes as a psychopath, though he could be and does act that way now as a supposed adult.

[Eolivet]

Heh, well now we can save some speculation time in the future: the first murder of the year is always Wes!

 

That being said, I can't see him as a sociopath at all. Again, I think the show is dark, but there are lines it doesn't cross -- and him being a sociopath would make Annalise look ridiculous for caring about him. The scene we saw made it look like Annalise and Eve were somehow involved in getting Wes' mother killed. That would be very interesting. Amazing ending.

 

Didn't see Asher's breakdown coming either. I thought maybe he would be the one to shoot Annalise because of his dad, but wow, when he put the car into reverse...that was chilling. I still have no idea what he'll do, if he'll be able to hold his secret in, as the others have been able to do.

 

I admit, I enjoy Connor and Michaela, but I haven't seen much show evidence (beyond the fact that the actors appear to be friends offscreen) that they play off each other all the time. I enjoy it, but I think it's one of those "makes good TV -- don't think too hard about the reason" things.

 

The great thing about ensemble dramas that cast a lot of unknowns like this (to me) is that the stories start out at a slightly realistic level, but the acting (save Viola Davis, of course) is slightly underwhelming. As the show breaks further from reality, the acting gets better and better -- so the story doesn't have to be as realistic to be good. It happened to LOST, it happened to Grey's and it's definitely happening here. Acting from the Keating 5 in the gun scene was strong all around -- I thought they all held their own with Davis. Maybe she makes them better. It definitely seems like the case this year.

 

Show knows how to leave viewers wanting more, that's for sure. Wow.

[krimimimi]

This show is utterly crazy. I am really enjoying it, even as it gets more and more ridiculous. But all the melodramatic ridiculousness is totally in line with what the show has been about from the start, so everything feels like consequential storytelling and that's why I like how it's getting more twisted. Compare that to Prison Break, a show that was also ridiculous and totally fell apart because they kept adding more convoluted shit, but on HTGAWM everything just kind of builds nicely on what has happened before rather than having thrown in random ideas to keep it going.

I think it's interesting that Conor was Annalise's first choice to shoot her. His character development is really interesting, since he was the most morally ambiguous character in the beginning and now he has become some sort of moral center (that is ignored of course). I continue to really enjoy Laurel. I think it was a nice twist that even Annalise's most reliable student wouldn't go through with her plan. Wes was basically the last card that she decided to play and of course we all saw it coming that Annalise would use Rebecca's murder to accomplish her goal. I actually really liked Wes as a protagonist in season one, but they have taken his character so far that they have to get rid of him soon, because there is almost no place to go with him anymore.

What I like is that the craziness as it increases is also being used to help explain the past craziness. Prison Break was OTT, and I enjoyed it thoroughly, until the forced and the stupid came to outweigh the pleasure. Sadly, that didn't take very long. By season 2, it was so frustratingly improbable, I couldn't bear to watch any longer.

So far the folks behind HTGAWM have managed to add a layer that grows the story. I think the fact that all five cliffhanger murders/attempted murders (Lila, Sam, Rebecca, Sinclair, Annalise) have quite literally been committed by "any old person" helps the writers get away with that, despite the obvious drawbacks. (For example, any of them could just as easily have killed Lila as Frank, for all we know at the moment. We still have no idea why he did it beyond "Sam told him to." At that rate, they could have fabricated reasons for basically any of them.) But the story is told in a way that keeps their options open, and is more about painting the characters such that the reveals when they come make sense, and showing their inevitable problems in dealing with the aftermaths. So far, for me, that's working. (YMMV, and I'm sorry if it does.)

I think the choice of Connor was a purely tactical decision. He is having qualms, and has been close to a breakdown more than once. Plus he's got a big shiny button to push, and she went for it. If he'd acted, he would now be more tightly ensnared in their dysfunctional communal web. He's still a loose cannon they'll have to worry about every bit as much as Asher. And it helps that he's not the psycho Wes is, so he'd probably have done less damage.

And that's where I think Wes just got interesting. He's now seriously questionable. I figured they'd have someone else shoot Anna to spread the guilt around, but they doubled down and went for it with Wes. We now also have the promise of more storyline with Eve (and whether you're ultimately team whoever, most folks seemed to think her character was a solid addition), possible retroactive explanations for how Anna got sucked into this in season 1, which effectively drew the rest of the Murder 4 besides Wes into the mess as well. It could also help explain some of the things that have made Wes so hard to bear for a lot of us. I'm convinced people will put up with a lot they don't enjoy in a character as long as it at least makes sense.

This season has effectively demonstrated at least one thing: an oh so trying storyline can be made tolerable by the early reveal of it's ultimate implosion. Smugface grated. She seemed universally present. If I hadn't known she would die a horrible death in the end, she might have driven me to leave. But it's not just about a satisfying end for a character. The way they presented it made it easier for me to trust the writers. It was their way to show me that they didn't think she was enjoyable viewing that I the viewer would peaceably watch indefinitely. And that really helped.

So I can see them doing a bunch of nifty stuff with Wes coming up, but I can easily picture a final scenario where it's an "me/us against them," where a far more ruthless Wes, with more to loose based on greater guilt, finds himself increasing less trustful of people like Connor and Asher and a battle for survival ensues and improbably, they take him out. (I can dream.)

[Bort]

How can the woman in her car in the parking garage not have seen Sinclair's body under Asher's car?

Seeing as how Bonnie had to get all the way down on her hands and knees to see Sinclair under the car, I'd say the woman had no view of the dead body from inside her own car.

[RedheadZombie]

 

I think he didn't shoot Annalise over Rebecca but because of her lies. We were given two seasons of Wes mommy issues and Annalise, whom he trusted with his life basically and quite literally, keeps lying to his face. Each time he confronts her, each time he falls for it, each time he's proven he placed his trust in the wrong hands. It was too much. 

 

I like this theory.

 

I'd actually gotten the impression from the scene with young Wes that his mom had either abused him or had a substance abuse problem? It seemed like he was used to adults bullshitting him/not being able to trust them and that was why he was so closed off? 

 

I agree.  I didn't see little Wes as a psychopath, but if he was, that would have been noted by the child care experts who dealt with him.  I am a little confused about his mother, was she his bio mom, or his adopted mom?  Does that mean he's already had two mothers die?

 

 

I truly don't understand, even within the context of this show, what led to the whole "let's make it look like Catherine did it all" scenario.  Caleb had found a gun.  They had evidence that Philip and Catherine were in contact when she previously said she had never heard of him.  Catherine runs away.  Why wouldn't they have just gone to the police with all of this evidence and have them arrest Catherine?  OK, so Nate was about to be fired for doctoring a record.  So what.  He explains that he did it because the DA wasn't taking the threat of Philip seriously enough.  He doesn't need to be a cop, he could just go and work for Annalise.

 

So the whole thing that Annalise cooked up was to have Asher bring Sinclair's body to the house.  Dump her body from the balcony.  Annalise gets shot in the leg.  And they blame it all on Catherine?  Doesn't compute at all.  Why go to all the trouble to pin it on Catherine when she was already looking pretty guilty based on actual events?  Why would Annalise call 911 and say that she was shot by Catherine?  How is she going to explain that later?

 

I've thought for a while that Catherine's TSTL personality was fake, and that she was the ringleader of the three deaths.  Now I'm not so sure.  She runs off at the sight of a gun.  Then she's bee-bopping around in her little satin pajamas, fleeing to some dumpy motel and running around barefoot to use the vending machines.  She seemed like some naïve sheltered trust fund baby.  That dumb little bunny can't take care of herself for five minutes.

 

I don't understand why they didn't lay Sinclair's body in the driveway, then run over her with one of the Hapstall cars.  The injuries would be appropriate, and her DNA would be under the car.   I know that's very gruesome, but so is throwing her from the stop of that stupid castle.  And now that we know what actually happened, it's pretty funny that Sinclair managed to keep one shoe on, and other was next to her.

 

Also, did I hear correctly, when Anna said to Laurel something to the effect of that she, Laurel, had gotten through something with her father that was much worse therefore, shooting her should be easy compared to that?  

 

I really wish they would clarify the mob angle.  If Laurel's father is really some important Mafioso, Annalise better think twice before threatening to reveal Laurel's secret.  I'm sure the mob is much more experienced at making people disappear than Annalise.

[secnarf]

I was proud of the kids that they all turned down a chance to shoot her...I am shocked Connor killed Sinclair...and I actually thought Annalise shot herself....so I was close...

Connor didn't kill Sinclair, Asher did.

 

Catherine wakes up from her grave, and gasps, and starts to run.

Another flashforward we have not seen yet:

    Frank takes Annalise to the hospital and goes all the way to the operating room until he is told to leave.  He acts passionately concerned the entire time.  As soon as he is told to leave the hospital he walks away completely calm.  This might be where he brings Catherine to a gravesite to bury her?

He never brings Catherine to a gravesite to bury her. He gently places her, face up, and makes no effort whatsoever to cover her up or bury her in any way. He knew she was alive and intends for her to be found. And, she doesn't run anywhere, the police officer and dog are right there! She sits up, and that's it. As far as we know, she doesn't run at all.

I can't remember the title of the episode, but it was at least two episodes ago. They show the gas station scene, Bonnie telling him to wait in the car, her going in the bathroom and washing off the blood. Then she comes out, sees that he's not in the car, then it flashes to him saying to someone, they don't show the face of the person, but he's saying he wants to confess to a crime, murder. I assumed it was a police station. He's definitely in doors, in a very dimly lighted place, and standing in front of what looks like a counter.

He doesn't say he wants to confess to a crime or specify that it's murder. He says "I want to make a statement." This statement could easily be something along the lines of "I think something is really wrong, Catherine was really unhinged and I haven't been able to reach Annalise and I'm worried something happened to her", or something along the lines of "I was arriving at the Hapstall house and I saw Catherine push Sinclair off of the roof of the house and I got scared and ran."

 

I'd actually gotten the impression from the scene with young Wes that his mom had either abused him or had a substance abuse problem? It seemed like he was used to adults bullshitting him/not being able to trust them and that was why he was so closed off? 

I could definitely see this happening. It's also possible that she had severe depression and was not capable of caring for him reliably, would say she would do things and then not have the energy/ability, etc. That child actor was incredible.

 

My big question is.....she was killed in a parking garage. They put her bloody body in the trunk. So what about all the blood on the parking garage floor? It certainly will be noticed. And Bonnie left her car near there, because they drove up in Asher's car. And that lady saw Asher sitting in his car right where the blood will be!

Bonnie and Asher drove up in separate cars - when Bonnie and Annalise are looking in the trunk, Asher is sitting in the driver's seat of his own car in the driveway - but that's a good point about the blood. Also how nobody saw them hauling a dead body into the trunk of Bonnie's car.

I think that the lady who asked Asher if he needs help and the guy who gave Nate a hard time will play a bigger role later.

 

 

 

Philip's DNA found at crime scene.  DA says "but he has a clean record".  Normal person:  How about you try again?  Take him in for questioning again.  This show:  Let's fake his record to make him look like a criminal!

 

...

 

So the whole thing that Annalise cooked up was to have Asher bring Sinclair's body to the house.  Dump her body from the balcony.  Annalise gets shot in the leg.  And they blame it all on Catherine?  Doesn't compute at all.  Why go to all the trouble to pin it on Catherine when she was already looking pretty guilty based on actual events?  Why would Annalise call 911 and say that she was shot by Catherine?  How is she going to explain that later?

 

I am also confused about the whole Wes/Christophe thing.  First off, Wes is about 22 isn't he?  The flashback said 10 years ago.  Did that kid look 12?  He looked younger to me.  Also, does Wes really know who he is or has that somehow been blocked from his memory?  If his mom died when he was 12, who took care of him?  Have they ever said it before on the show and I just missed it?  How did he not know that Annalise and Eve were somehow involved?

 

For the Philip thing, that is not how it played out. Before the DNA had even been tested, Philip went to the police to report the cyber-stalking and whatnot that Oliver had done, and Nate made Philip look like he had a history of schizophrenia so that this claim would not be believed.

 

As for blaming it on Catherine, I'm not totally on board with this storyline, but they were trying to pin Sinclair's death on her, and she was not previously in any way implicated or involved in Sinclair's death. Her being implicated in three other murders doesn't really have any impact on an investigation into Sinclair's death unless they can actually tie her to Sinclair's death somehow. Annalise called 911 to say Catherine shot her to lend credence to her ridiculous scheme. There's not anything to explain later - she called and said she was shot by Catherine, and then police arrive and find her with a gunshot wound. There is nothing else to explain, just elaborate on, but keep the same general story.

 

When did we find out Wes is 27? I feel like this sounds vaguely familiar, but I thought he was 22, which makes sense for a first-year law student.

I am pretty sure he "remembers" who he is. He recognized the name Christophe immediately.

 

I think it had to be poignant that Asher himself said that there was no way they could get away with it, due to the differences in the deaths, with the others dismissing it as shock. So I do expect Sinclair's death to not be bought as a 'Catherine kill', like Annalise thinks it could be. Which actually would be different, since they were able to pin Sam's death on Rebecca and it sort of stuck.

When did they pin Sam's death on Rebecca?

They actively went out of their way to keep Rebecca's name out of it and framed Nate.

 

Really, the word "mob" were in the dialogue?

No, this was never explicitly said. I'm not entirely sure where the mafia assumption is coming from - the family isn't even Italian! They did imply that he is involved in some sort of organized crime, though, but mob/mafia are not synonyms for organized crime.

I agree.  I didn't see little Wes as a psychopath, but if he was, that would have been noted by the child care experts who dealt with him.  I am a little confused about his mother, was she his bio mom, or his adopted mom?  Does that mean he's already had two mothers die?

We have not been told anything ever about Wes having an adopted mom.

 

I feel like we have more questions than answers, after this episode. Patience is not my strong suit :P

[kdm07]

Really, the word "mob" were in the dialogue?

 

Sorry, no it wasn't. My memory isn't the greatest (too much happens in this show for me to keep track of everything) but there was definitely an implication that her father might be involved in organized crime. Or at least I think it was implied somewhere...right? (Someone back me up here lol)

Edited November 20, 2015 by kdm07

[Ms Blue Jay]

Ok,  secnarf.... thanks for the corrections on innocent typos and misplaced memories...

Edited November 20, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Glade]

Wow, this was really intense watching Analise's mental breakdown.  Clearly her PTSD from past events made her unable to deal with this fresh stress/trauma in a rational way.  Clearly this is going to blow up in someone's face, but it's not clear who's, but I guess Analise will be calling the shots from a hospital bed for a time.  If Wes did kill his abusive mother, intentionally or not, that wouldn't make him a "sociopath," and I think he's been shown to be a good, kind, sensitive person. 

[krimimimi]

Youtube can be a wonderous thing, so I just checked the flash forward with Catherine. Frank has placed her in the woods in a bloodied PJ top (called it! unless it was a bloody nose, but then you need to explain Frank's behavior at the hospital to me) where she is found some hours later by a dog patrol. Whereupon she wakes, rather startled, and bolts upright. There seems to have been no running involved, as secnarf said. It just felt damn dynamic. ;-)

awesome link to most of the flash forwards from 2x01-2x07:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8OZ3cyhZfM8

Sorry, no it wasn't. My memory isn't the greatest (too much happens in this show for me to keep track of everything) but there was definitely an implication that her father might be involved in organized crime. Or at least I think it was implied somewhere...right? (Someone back me up here lol)

Right there with you. No idea what all they said anymore, but both Frank and Anna have made several comments that certainly gave me the impression that Laurel's Dad was shady. I think what helped generate that impression is that I expect Frank not to be easily impressed by shadiness, and yet he seems to have a certain hesitancy/ respect for her family/ background.

[represent]

 

Sorry, no it wasn't. My memory isn't the greatest (too much happens in this show for me to keep track of everything) but there was definitely an implication that her father might be involved in organized crime. Or at least I think it was implied somewhere...right? (Someone back me up here lol)

LOL, this is how I see it. We've had this discussion on this board as to whether it seems racist/biased/sterotyping in that some of us were "assuming" that Laurel's family were in the mob because they are Latino. I know I remember the back and forth on this board about this topic. 

 

Then I remember posting that I don't think they ever said he was in the mob, but that during the holiday when she went home, the family seemed powerful, there was much tension in the room and the father dismissed her and told her to leave. You could basically tell from the interaction that Laurel did not respect her parents, her tone and look toward them was very judgmental IMO.  Almost like she felt they were hypocrites as they sat there and judged the choices she had made in her life. This was my perception.

 

Then I said that I thought that because Laurel seems to be played as cold, detached, dark, that I personally could take that perception of her and the scene at her family's home and at least conclude that something is not so right here and it could be illegal. Maybe it's a stretch, but I think the way the character is played, her personality, that coldness,  along with wealth and lack of warmth at the family dinner, some have concluded that something is off, something is illegal, and it must be the mob. 

 

But honestly, maybe some stereotyping is at play. So with that, what other illegal powerful dealings could the father be into? Because something is up and now it has been confirmed by Anna's dialogue in trying to get Laurel to shoot her. 

 

But I think it was a combination of things from the way the character has been played, to her interaction with her family(it was very judgmental and her looking at them like they were hypocrites), then add the wealth, all three of these made me personally conclude that maybe it was the mob.