Episode Discussion: TFGH

[WendyCR72]

So I'm guessing William DeVry is not long for the show since...

Kim/TB is on the way out (or gone? Again, not watching!)

...and he seems to be going dark/evil again. Shrug. He really has nothing to do.

[nilyank]

2 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Franco has been built up in the sense that Lucky's own mother as well as the boys' mother think it's no big deal that he's not around because Franco is such a wonderful stepdad.  During the 'Aiden is being bullied' storyline, Laura mentioned that Lucky could be contacted and Elizabeth said no. She and Franco were handling things. 

I think the disconnect is that Laura is not advocating for Lucky and his relationship with the boys, and has been used by the show to convince Cam that he should get over his valid reasons for not being happy with his mother marrying a serial killer. Then they have Laura be over the moon at the wedding reception as she watches Liz and Franco together.

Meanwhile today they had Laura advocate for Ava not to lose her relationship with her daughter while she tries to recover at Shadybrooke. If she even had one scene with Liz during all these years about Lucky where tried to explain what is going on with him. 

It is just sad that to me that Laura would go through such efforts for the  likes of Franco and Ava but barely nothing about the beloved child that she spent the most years actually raising.

On a side note, while Laura was having her own mental issues and away from her children, she did not have the same fear of losing her children when she got better. For one, both Nikolas and Lucky were adults went she went away. And for another, Luke had checked out on raising Lulu for huge chunks of time and Leslie ended raising her instead. Laura had a ton of people who loved her who were there for her children when she couldn't be there.

Ava has no one except Julian.

[Asp Burger]

5 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

So to go from THAT to Laura telling him to have "fun" wherever he is in Africa, made me ask, WTF is this bullshit.  I believe she decided not to tell him that Cam had just been through a traumatic kidnapping. Lucky, in true character, would absolutely want to know about that and jump on a plane immediately to come be with his 'first born.'  Lucky really loved Cam. Instead, they're completely focused on the "lets do whatever it takes to get Franco back because we love him soooo much" bandwagon.  Cam deciding to get drunk at a school party is a clear sign that he's not okay and should have at least a talk with Lucky. A quick pep talk from Jason is not sufficient.

There is as yet no actor with whom to dramatize his jumping on a plane and rushing home. If they wanted to pull the trigger on a "Lucky rushes back to town" story, I personally think there have been many other events just as likely or more likely to bring that about than a kidnapping that went on for a day or so, from which Franco really ended up being the biggest casualty. What about everything going on all last school year with Aiden, who is much younger and even biologically Lucky's?  

Lucky is going to do and not do what realities of the current canvas dictate. While he's gone, they aren't going to have a scene with Cameron standing there saying lines into a phone and reacting to blank spaces into which we're supposed to put supportive statements from Lucky. 

Cameron is not completely without a support system. He has his mother, his brothers, his Aunt Hayden, Laura, several friends his age, and, yes, although we may not like him, Jason. While Lucky is gone, and Franco is thinking he's someone else, Cameron's onscreen support is most likely to come from those people. Even if Lucky were in town, or even if he were in regular communication, Cameron still might have got drunk at a Halloween party. Teenage misbehavior and angst aren't always a matter of someone lacking a father figure. Josslyn did it too, and she has both Jax and Sonny close by.  

Moving on, the new Nikolas has made a promising first impression on me. I know some people have commented that he's young-looking, but he's 41, a little less than six years younger than Tyler Christopher.

It may just be the way Marcus Coloma has chosen to play the role, but he seems to have done his homework. His acting style has a little of TC and a little of Jonathan Jackson too (when the latter was in Lucky's "pissy" mode). So I don't think I'll have trouble accepting him as part of that family. I look forward to the other reunions with the characters important to Nikolas, such as Liz and Laura.   

Nice touch with Jax, Nikolas, and Hayden all looking a little different in the flashbacks (mostly their hair) for the anti-Valentin cabal's first get-together.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Asp Burger

[Ladyrain]

Nu-Nik looks like Lin-Manuel Miranda.   That's not a bad thing; both handsome men.   But that's the first thing that came to mind with the reveal.    -----   At first I was disappointed that it wasn't TC, but I'm getting used to the change.  Yes, he looks younger than he really is, but the last actor who had the part looked way too old.   This new one has the Cassadine 'vibe' so far.  I hope he catches on.

[Hater]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

So I'm guessing William DeVry is not long for the show since...

  Reveal spoiler

Kim/TB is on the way out (or gone? Again, not watching!)

...and he seems to be going dark/evil again. Shrug. He really has nothing to do.

Just opening the lines for Julian to do bad and turn to Alexis again.

[Blackie]

11 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

I had forgotten they were still married when he fled town and "died". 

I forgot that they were ever married at all, I forgot that storyline, was it just for convenience?  Then she hooked up with Finn after Nik was gone?

[Katy M]

11 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

I had forgotten they were still married when he fled town and "died".  But wouldn't Nikolas have been declared legally dead in the intervening time and thus their marriage would have no legal basis?

IIRC, when Frisco died and came back to life, he had to be declared living again and then he and Felicia had to get a divorce.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, lala2 said:

 Like AG, JJ seemed to want Lucky to be free and not tied down to a bunch of kids. So, from how JJ's Lucky was written, I can say I'm not surprised that he didn't ask Laura about Franco's presence in his children's lives. I don't think Lucky actually cares. He knows Liz loves her kids and wouldn't put them in harm's way so he's fine. 

I could not disagree more with this. And it's not even true. Jonathan Jackson stated why he left after a year--the constant crying, and abysmal story lines. I don't blame him for leaving, even if I wanted him to stay because he IS Lucky. Greg's attempt to be Lucky failed. He was like a totally different character.

And it's all Guzasrsehole who decided, all of a sudden, Lucky couldn't stick around or be a dad, because of this "darkness" that came from fucking nowhere.

8 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Franco has been built up in the sense that Lucky's own mother as well as the boys' mother think it's no big deal that he's not around because Franco is such a wonderful stepdad.  During the 'Aiden is being bullied' storyline, Laura mentioned that Lucky could be contacted and Elizabeth said no. She and Franco were handling things. Yet back when Elizabeth was dating AJ, the two of them had a scene with little Aiden and she expressed sadness that she hurt Lucky so badly he left town and so he was not there to be a dad. 

Laura and Luke were devoted to Lucky when he was a little boy, so Laura if written correctly in character would never think it's okay for Lucky to be absent from his sons' lives unless he wound up in an institutional type setting for addiction/mental illness. We are supposed to believe that she's totally cool with Lucky having "fun" wherever he is in Africa, while a "reformed" serial killer is the father figure to her grandsons. When Elizabeth was getting serious with Franco, Laura shrugged it off with, well I used to be married to someone with a dark side, so who am I to judge.  THAT's what I mean by propping.  The writers have Laura  consistently propping Franco as a beloved father (except for when Lulu accused him of stabbing her) while glazing over her own very much alive son's absence. Elizabeth also shows zero concern that her sons don't have a relationship with their actual father because Franco is such a wonderful husband/hero/stepdad.  Yet back when she was in a relationship with Jake/Jason later known as Drew, she did mention being concerned that the boys hadn't Skyped with Lucky lately.  I don't like the Show's blatant narrative that the boys have/had Franco, he's all Cam and Aiden (not Jake because he's Jason's) could want in a father .... Lucky who?

I wish I could ♥️ this a gazillion million trillion times.

8 hours ago, ulkis said:

whatever vibe JJ gave on screen he didn't share that opinion with Geary.  He said many times he wanted Liz and Lucky, that Lucky cared about his family etc. They even gave Lucky dialogue talking about how Lucky thought Luke spouted all that stuff about not wanting to be tied down to the house because it hurt too much to think about all he had lost.

From the 7/12/11 episode:

Siobhan: Suppose, in a way, I--thank you. I owe you an apology.

Lucky: What, for nearly dying in a fire that I set?

Siobhan: Well, if I thought it through, I had a little more faith, I'd have realized that you were burning a house. You weren't trying to kill yourself.

Lucky: Oh, I see. So it's your fault for not knowing that I was being selfish and arrogant, and not suicidal. I like that. It's not bad.

Siobhan: Can we just both say that we were both sorely out of our minds that night and just leave it at that?

Lucky: I guess so. You know, my mom loved that house, and my sister grew up there. And now, it's just ashes. I can't even remember what I was trying to accomplish.

Siobhan: Closure? Break from the past? Or maybe it was a tribute to your father, since you said Luke always wanted the place gone.

Lucky: Yeah, but that was revisionist history. There were plenty of times when he was happy there. He just doesn't want to remember them.

Siobhan: Maybe it was just too painful. Looking back, remembering happiness, being able to see clearly how you lost it--that has to be torture.

Lucky: Yeah. It's easier to tell yourself that you were never happy and that you just wanted to be free.

Siobhan: Guilt and grief, they're terrible burdens for Luke and for you.

I WATCHED when Luke, Laura returned with an 11 year-old Lucky. LUKE LOVED being a father and husband. Guzarsehole and Geary can fuck off with that noise about how Luke hated being tied down. I know what I saw and heard.

8 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

That's not true. JJ's Lucky told Luke that "those boys are my sons, they are perfect just the way they are" and later that he would be happy to be a part of the boys lives while having minimal contact with Elizabeth. He more than once told little Cam how happy and proud he was to be his dad - the last time was his Xmas goodbye scene. At that time, the Show had Lucky talking about going on a trip but coming back and being an active father to his sons.

Then years later when he brought Jake home, the combination of Nikolas telling him Liz's new man is really Jason, Jake's father and seeing how happy Liz, little Jake and adult "Jake" seemed together, and I guess seeing for himself that Aiden was doing well, helped motivate him to take off.  He told Luke he didn't want to expose the boys to his "darkness."   

So to go from THAT to Laura telling him to have "fun" wherever he is in Africa, made me ask, WTF is this bullshit.  I believe she decided not to tell him that Cam had just been through a traumatic kidnapping. Lucky, in true character, would absolutely want to know about that and jump on a plane immediately to come be with his 'first born.'  Lucky really loved Cam. Instead, they're completely focused on the "lets do whatever it takes to get Franco back because we love him soooo much" bandwagon.  Cam deciding to get drunk at a school party is a clear sign that he's not okay and should have at least a talk with Lucky. A quick pep talk from Jason is not sufficient.

It's ALL SUCH BULLSHIT. I said it before and I'll say it again: Liz with Franco is GROSS. Hell, I'd let her be with Nikolas (and I LOATHED that affair) than with this raping serial killer.

As for yesterday's show?

All I got from Nik was a bunch of whining because Jax and Hayden haven't been "successful" or whatever. And Nik? Your mother is LAURA FUCKING! SPENCER! She dealt with your grand-pere, grand-mere, and STAVROS. Valentin is the mousiest mouse who ever moused. Telling her you're alive and well will not harm her.

Amazing how just unclipping her hair made all the curls go flat for Laura.🙄 I prefer the curls.

At least Laura didn't hug Mooby.

[lala2]

10 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Franco has been built up in the sense that Lucky's own mother as well as the boys' mother think it's no big deal that he's not around because Franco is such a wonderful stepdad.  During the 'Aiden is being bullied' storyline, Laura mentioned that Lucky could be contacted and Elizabeth said no. She and Franco were handling things. Yet back when Elizabeth was dating AJ, the two of them had a scene with little Aiden and she expressed sadness that she hurt Lucky so badly he left town and so he was not there to be a dad. 

Laura and Luke were devoted to Lucky when he was a little boy, so Laura if written correctly in character would never think it's okay for Lucky to be absent from his sons' lives unless he wound up in an institutional type setting for addiction/mental illness. We are supposed to believe that she's totally cool with Lucky having "fun" wherever he is in Africa, while a "reformed" serial killer is the father figure to her grandsons. When Elizabeth was getting serious with Franco, Laura shrugged it off with, well I used to be married to someone with a dark side, so who am I to judge.  THAT's what I mean by propping.  The writers have Laura  consistently propping Franco as a beloved father (except for when Lulu accused him of stabbing her) while glazing over her own very much alive son's absence. Elizabeth also shows zero concern that her sons don't have a relationship with their actual father because Franco is such a wonderful husband/hero/stepdad.  Yet back when she was in a relationship with Jake/Jason later known as Drew, she did mention being concerned that the boys hadn't Skyped with Lucky lately.  I don't like the Show's blatant narrative that the boys have/had Franco, he's all Cam and Aiden (not Jake because he's Jason's) could want in a father .... Lucky who?

Here's where we disagree. I don't think they think it's no big deal that Lucky isn't around b/c Franco is there. Even if Friz were not dating, they wouldn't be making a huge deal of Lucky's absence b/c Lucky has been absent for years now. That's my point. He's just not in the picture. That is not a new development. Why would they continue to make a huge deal about something that just is?!

As a family lawyer, I deal w/clients all the time who have to accept that X is just not going to be a good dad, or that the court cannot force X to be a parent. IMO, Liz has accepted that Lucky is not in the children's lives, and according to your own example, she accepted that about 6 years ago. Liz was w/AJ in 2013. It's 2019, almost 2020. If she thought that Lucky had completely abandoned Aiden back then b/c of her infidelity, I'm not sure why she would think things have changed now. Lucky was absent then, and he's absent now. Nothing has changed. So, it's not like Franco is here, who needs Lucky; it's more like Lucky is not here, so we have to move on and deal w/things w/o him. As I see it, Liz has accepted that Lucky is not in her children's lives, and I have no problem w/that. I'm happy she is not waiting around on Lucky or calling him for help with the kids. He clearly has no interest in his children's lives. If he did, he'd be there. He'd call. He'd visit. Lucky does none of those things, so Liz shouldn't be begging him to be involved or seeking his help. She can't, or rather shouldn't care more than him. She's a single mom who has gotten used to handling things on her own (or w/Franco), and that's fine by me. As I see it, Liz accepted that she was in this on her own about 6 years ago or longer. From then on, any man she dated and/or married could be added to the picture, but she stopped expecting anything from Lucky.  I get that and agree w/it. 

With regard to Laura, I'm not sure what she should be doing or saying different. If I were Laura, I'd be ashamed that my son abandoned his kids. Lucky was hurt by Liz, but what did the kids do to him? At the time, he was their only father, and he just walked out on them. Why? Because he was upset and selfish. That's horrible, but there is nothing Laura can do about that. Lucky is a grown man who makes his own choices. He decided to walk away from his kids, so all Laura can do at this point is support Liz and her choices.  Frankly, I'm happy Laura isn't always talking up Lucky or trying to get Liz to call him for things. If he were interested, he'd be calling on his own. He'd be visiting on his own. I know if I were Liz and Laura was doing that, I would resent it. Don't talk up your son to me when he abandoned our kids?! Laura plays it just right if you ask me. It appears she has also accepted that Lucky isn't going to be a part of his kids' lives. Maybe she has spoken to him about it. We don't know. But I have no problem w/Laura NOT being upset that Lucky is not involved in decisions or that Liz doesn't call him. Why should he be and why should Liz? He walked out on them and has made his feelings pretty clear by his absence from their lives. 

It doesn't help that the writing hasn't always been consistent - shocker, right? We went for months w/nothing, and then one writer suddenly penned that Lucky Sykped w/the boys. It was mentioned that one time, and then never again that I recall. I guess Aiden was happy to see him when he dropped off Jake, but I don't remember that scene. For the most part, Lucky has been written as a deadbeat dad in my eyes. That has been pretty consistent from the moment he left town to find himself. I've held that opinion for years now, and nothing has swayed me on it. So, for me, it really has nothing to do w/Franco. To me, Lucky's deadbeat status didn't get worse w/Friz. I've been dissatisfied w/the writing for Lucky since JJ reprised the role, and that was long before RoHo was on the show. 

ETA: The posted dialogue about Lucky loving his sons just makes me more mad that the writers took him the deadbeat route. That's what I always loved about GV's Lucky - his love for his boys. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by lala2

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, lala2 said:

With regard to Laura, I'm not sure what she should be doing or saying different. If I were Laura, I'd be ashamed that my son abandoned his kids. Lucky was hurt by Liz, but what did the kids do to him? At the time, he was their only father, and he just walked out on them. Why? Because he was upset and selfish. That's horrible, but there is nothing Laura can do about that. Lucky is a grown man who makes his own choices. He decided to walk away from his kids, so all Laura can do at this point is support Liz and her choices.  Frankly, I'm happy Laura isn't always talking up Lucky or trying to get Liz to call him for things. If he were interested, he'd be calling on his own. He'd be visiting on his own. I know if I were Liz and Laura was doing that, I would resent it. Don't talk up your son to me when he abandoned our kids?! Laura plays it just right if you ask me. It appears she has also accepted that Lucky isn't going to be a part of his kids' lives. Maybe she has spoken to him about it. We don't know. But I have no problem w/Laura NOT being upset that Lucky is not involved in decisions or that Liz doesn't call him. Why should he be and why should Liz? He walked out on them and made his feelings pretty clear. 

I blame the writing. I blame Guzarsehole, Carlivatprick and HackFrank. Because ALL of this was out of character for Lucky and how Laura is behaving with respect to Lucky is OUT OF CHARACTER. I'm not going to buy this crock of shit and massacring of Lucky's character. They didn't HAVE to turn Lucky into this person. Like @tvgoddess or was it @Hater said: Guzarsehole is/was/willalways be a petty pissant bitch. He convinced Jonathan to return, fired Greg, and then gave Lucky the WORST kind of writing upon his return.

[lala2]

12 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I blame the writing.

Oh, I blame the writing too. It was awful. Many may disagree but I didn't think JJ should have been fired for GV . For me, GV was the best adult Lucky. I know JJ didn't like the writing, but we had a good Lucky - IMO at least - and that guy was fired for JJ to come back and then JJ left again. And after he left, the character was utterly trashed. It's a shame b/c if GV hadn't been fired, he'd probably still be on canvas. 

That said, when looking at the story as it is, this is just my opinion on everything. Lucky has abandoned his kids. Liz and Laura have accepted that he's not going to be a part of their lives. They have all moved on and don't consider him anymore. Again, as a family lawyer, I've seen this scenario, sadly, plenty of times, and it is best for all parties to just move on w/their lives. It's really not good for the kids for a parent to be in and out of their lives. Kids need consistency. Plus, you cannot force anyone to be a parent or to take an active interest in their children. You just can't, so the next best thing is to move on and do your best for the kids. To me, this is what Liz has been doing since long before she hooked up w/Franco. That's why I do not see Lucky's absence as having anything to do w/Franco. I'm not sure why they took Lucky down the deadbeat dad route but they did. And again, this was all before Friz. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by lala2

[ffwbe]

Wasn’t what happened with Lucky pretty typical for soap parents who are no longer on the show and not killed off or recast? I feel like Jax was more the exception than the rule. I don’t see what they say about Lucky and his kids to be much different than Ric and Molly. He left town because he realized that being around Sonny was toxic for him and they pretty much said during his brief return that he and Molly never saw each other in person and their relationship consisted of the occasional Skype call. 

[lala2]

Hmm..... I am not sure. I haven't watched enough soaps with parents not on canvas to say. I do think they could have written Lucky as keeping in touch with his kids and seeing them on occasion. I could be wrong, but it always felt - to me at least - that they went out of the way to write Lucky as a deadbeat dad. It's like they wanted us to know Lucky wanted nothing to do with the kids. Ric just faded away. The destruction of Lucky seemed purposeful. Or maybe it just felt that way to me because of how much I loved GV's Lucky. 

[tvgoddess]

2 hours ago, Blackie said:

I forgot that they were ever married at all, I forgot that storyline, was it just for convenience?  Then she hooked up with Finn after Nik was gone?

This is a good summary of Hayden's entire history and helps me from having to type it all out myself. 😉

https://www.abc.soapsindepth.com/posts/hayden-general-hospital-rebecca-budig-137896

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

He decided to walk away from his kids, so all Laura can do at this point is support Liz and her choices.  Frankly, I'm happy Laura isn't always talking up Lucky or trying to get Liz to call him for things. If he were interested, he'd be calling on his own. He'd be visiting on his own. I know if I were Liz and Laura was doing that, I would resent it. Don't talk up your son to me when he abandoned our kids?! Laura plays it just right if you ask me.

I think this is where we really disagree. Laura isn't "playing it right" - not for Laura to be true to character.  Laura comparing Luke to Franco as a way for the writers to have Laura give Elizabeth her blessing to get serious with Franco is utterly absurd especially because she knew so little about how Franco's brain works. Ironically, the one time Laura's behavior struck me as accurate was when Franco was briefly in the PC jail because Lulu mistakenly identified him as the man who stabbed her. Franco was pleading with Laura to trust Elizabeth's judgement.  Laura's response was that she trusted Elizabeth's judgement except where Franco is concerned because she's blinded by love. I thought, bravo Laura. (Franco just 'got lucky' that Ryan only tried to kill him for lying about the murders; once Ryan escaped he could have easily gone after Elizabeth or one of her boys to really make Franco suffer.) Aside from that moment, Laura has shown zero concerns about Franco as role model/step dad for her grandsons, only saying positive things because the writers are using her to prop Franco as wonderful stepdad (gag). The truly OTT moment was Laura welling up with tears of joy during the Friz wedding party when the three boys dedicated a song to Elizabeth and "dad." I could see her tearing up if she witnessed a scene of the boys being really sweet to their mom alone, but a moment that is about acceptance of Franco? COME ON.

[ouinason]

I agree that LAURA is being written to prop Friz, even if I don't have a problem with it.  Although I think Liz's answer not to bother Lucky about Aiden being bullied would have been the same with or without him in their lives.  What would the point be anyway if they had called?  And... why didn't Laura ask the same when Cam was kidnapped, or they were dealing with Jake being programmed by Helena... which makes me kind of mad that maybe she thinks Lucky would care more about Aiden's issues than the other boys, which bugs me.  

Speaking of Laura, if she's dedicated to her pro Ava/Avery line, she should tell Sonny that if he really feels that Ava should be cut off, then he must feel that Dante should be permanently cut off from Rocco too.  After all, his issues are MUCH more dangerous to his child's well being than Ava's are.

Edited November 5, 2019 by ouinason

[Bringonthedrama]

6 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

I personally think there have been many other events just as likely or more likely to bring that about than a kidnapping that went on for a day or so, from which Franco really ended up being the biggest casualty. What about everything going on all last school year with Aiden, who is much younger and even biologically Lucky's?  

Cameron is not completely without a support system. He has his mother, his brothers, his Aunt Hayden, Laura, several friends his age, and, yes, although we may not like him, Jason. While Lucky is gone, and Franco is thinking he's someone else, Cameron's onscreen support is most likely to come from those people. Even if Lucky were in town, or even if he were in regular communication, Cameron still might have got drunk at a Halloween party. Teenage misbehavior and angst aren't always a matter of someone lacking a father figure.

I agree with you about other events, and the Aiden bullying storyline. The Cam kidnapping is just the most recent incident where Lucky should have been there. I pointed the kidnapping drama out because Laura was on-screen on the phone with Lucky right after it happened so Lucky deciding to come home would be an organic moment.  I don't recall Laura being on the phone with Lucky in a scene when people were worrying about Aiden.

Yes, Cameron has a support system. However, he could not talk honestly about feelings of Lucky's abandonment, being "the man of the house protecting Mom and my little brothers," and his valid concerns about Franco to his mother or brothers because they're so invested in Franco. Hayden has barely been involved in their lives; she had exactly one very brief scene with little Cam in the past before her return this fall.  Joss is self-absorbed and Trina means well but doesn't really know Franco or anything about Cam's history because she wasn't his friend back then. Right now the only adult male/father figure type Cam has is Jason, the brain damaged hit man who has played a not great role in Cam's family history. Cam doesn't have enough of the right kind of support. I would like to see Cam confide in someone he can trust (who's not Team Franco) or confront Lucky about how being abandoned as a child has influenced his behavior now. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Bringonthedrama

[Asp Burger]

9 hours ago, ouinason said:

 I think Liz's answer not to bother Lucky about Aiden being bullied would have been the same with or without him in their lives.  What would the point be anyway if they had called?  And... why didn't Laura ask the same when Cam was kidnapped, or they were dealing with Jake being programmed by Helena... which makes me kind of mad that maybe she thinks Lucky would care more about Aiden's issues than the other boys, which bugs me.  

I don't think it's a matter of his caring more, just the situations not all being the same.

At the time they were dealing with Jake's programming by Helena, everyone (including we viewers) thought Drew was Jason. So Jake seemingly had a father on the canvas who was involved.

Cameron was recovered from his kidnapping within hours. It's terrible that he had a wrong-place/wrong-time run-in with Shiloh and then saw his stepfather sacrifice himself for him, but the actual kidnapping didn't last long. It's not as though Shiloh left the country with him and he was missing over a long period of time.  

Aiden's issues are a little different.  Elizabeth was told by a teacher that she suspects Aiden is coming to a realization about his "identity." Other kids were calling him "Gayden" and ostracizing him. One of them was even a relative. Whether Willow and the kids were on to something or were way off base, there could be issues going on that could shape the rest of his life. And whatever the case, something was making him withdrawn, quiet, and fearful, and it was an ongoing thing we kept hearing about for months. It was more than "Oh, children can be cruel." 

But I don't want to dwell too much on what Lucky gets told or how culpable he is for lack of involvement with Aiden and the others. He's the kind of parent they're making him because he isn't on the show. If there's an announcement of a recast, he'll be in town and he'll get a different kind of writing. With Nikolas back now, maybe there will be a Spencer renaissance. (That is, the Spencer family. But, sigh, probably Spencer the kid too.) 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Asp Burger

[statsgirl]

I never got the feeling that Laura was propping Friz, only that she's supporting Liz and the man who is there in the house for her kids.

The problem with it all is that Lucky is off the canvas and the show has no plans to bring him back at this point. There is very little anyone on-camera can do about that.

Skyping is nothing when it comes to a parent being away for years at a time at the age Jake and Aiden are. Sure, you can stay in touch and realize that he is still there but it does nothing for maintaining the real parenting that comes with deeper contact. He's not there to teach Jake how to throw a ball or bake with Aiden, or deal with Cameron's first hangover. Liz was right when she told Laura that telling Lucky about Aiden being bullied won't make a difference to the situation. Lucky isn't co-parenting Aiden with Liz now, Franco was.

True, they could say that Lucky sent some money so that Aiden or Jake could attend some camp that Liz couldn't afford for him herself.  It would be even better if one of more of the kids went on a long vacation to visit him in Africa or wherever he is now.  But unless they are willing to bring him back into Port Charles, the situation is that Lucky has decided to miss out on his sons' growing up and nothing Laura or anyone else could say would make any difference..

[makelemons]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I blame the writing. I blame Guzarsehole, Carlivatprick and HackFrank. Because ALL of this was out of character for Lucky and how Laura is behaving with respect to Lucky is OUT OF CHARACTER. 

Every character that existed on this show before FV showed up is being written out of character to prop the newbies.  except maybe CarSon, but even they don't seem to be driving actual story like they used to.

i have a slight hope things might change with the new coHW, but i just think with FV around doing anything he can to make his pets front and center it just wont happen.

[ulkis]

2 hours ago, ffwbe said:

Wasn’t what happened with Lucky pretty typical for soap parents who are no longer on the show and not killed off or recast? I feel like Jax was more the exception than the rule. I don’t see what they say about Lucky and his kids to be much different than Ric and Molly. He left town because he realized that being around Sonny was toxic for him and they pretty much said during his brief return that he and Molly never saw each other in person and their relationship consisted of the occasional Skype call. 

Ric is sort of a villain, and didn't spend much time with Molly on-screen, so it's not hard to buy/no one cares much (in general) about him not having contact with Molly.

[ulkis]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Greg's attempt to be Lucky failed. He was like a totally different character.

GV didn't fail. If he had they would have fired him long before they did. Personally I had wanted him recast but in general he was liked by the audience. Not wildly or anything but not a failure.

[GHScorpiosRule]

13 minutes ago, ulkis said:

GV didn't fail. If he had they would have fired him long before they did. Personally I had wanted him recast but in general he was liked by the audience. Not wildly or anything but not a failure.

I should have said, he failed for me. He wasn't Lucky. Just as Yelly McYellerson wasn't Lucky. I think he was worse. But for me, neither had any characteristics that defined Lucky.

[lala2]

2 hours ago, ouinason said:

Although I think Liz's answer not to bother Lucky about Aiden being bullied would have been the same with or without him in their lives.  What would the point be anyway if they had called?  

Yes. This is my point. Even if Franco weren't in the picture, I still feel Liz wouldn't have bothered to call Lucky, and that's b/c Lucky has been out of the picture for years. As you said, I wouldn't see the point in calling him, and that's what Liz essentially told Laura when she asked if she should track him down. 

------------------------------

I'm sorry. I do not know how to multi-quote on this forum, but @Bringonthedrama - I guess we can agree to disagree. I'm pretty indifferent when it comes to Laura and her feelings on Franco. What I mean is - she could like him or hate him, and it wouldn't really bother me. I would only be bothered if she criticized Liz for her choices. Laura would have no right to do that, IMO. It would be similar to when Olivia told Lulu she was watching her and would step in if she didn't like who Lulu dated or the choices Lulu made.  Olivia had no right to say that to Lulu, and if Laura said something like that to Liz, I would feel Laura was wrong. Liz and Lulu have the right to live their lives as they see fit. If Olivia and Laura don't like their choices in romantic partners, that's on them. They can keep their feelings to themselves. If the kids are not being harmed (which they aren't), it's really none of their business.  

This is really all about perspective b/c as I see it, Laura and some others in PC have accepted that Franco is not the same man he was. They have accepted that he had a brain tumor, which impacted his actions. They judge him for the man he is now rather than the man he was. I have no issue or problem w/that. I don't think that makes Laura OOC.  From what Laura sees, Franco does care about Liz. He does care about Liz's boys. The boys like him. They are a happy family unit. I'm not sure why Laura should be expressing all this concern about Franco now. Maybe in the beginning it would have made sense, but it makes no sense for her to do so now. Friz have been together for like 3-4 years. Any issues Laura had w/him have probably passed. 

[Katy M]

45 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I should have said, he failed for me. He wasn't Lucky. Just as Yelly McYellerson wasn't Lucky. I think he was worse. But for me, neither had any characteristics that defined Lucky.

I'll be the first to admit I am horribly unfair to recasts and they have to be on a while for me to warm up to them.  Even then it's iffy.  Jacob Young was not Lucky at all, IMO.  Greg Vaughan was OK.  I think he benefited from having some in between him and JJ.  But, JJ will always be Lucky to me.

Natalia Livingston was never ever ever ever ever Emily.  That was some kind of weird imposter and it befuddles me how nobody ever noticed.

and I couldn't ever warm up to anyone besides Sarah Brown as Carly. I know LW has been playing her a lot longer, but I'll always prefer SB.  Heck I even prefer TB.  That was actually a fairly good recast.

[YaddaYadda]

Go away with your nonsense, Kim. You gave me Oscar. No, he didn't!

The flip phone dialogue was sort of hilarious.

Brad, lying about a lie to justify a lie. Never change, dumbass.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, YaddaYadda said:

Brad, lying about a lie to justify a lie. Never change, dumbass.

I'm pretty sure if you lie enough times it circles around to the truth.  Right?  That totally has to be right.  

[Bringonthedrama]

26 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Brad, lying about a lie to justify a lie. Never change, dumbass.

2 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

On the upside,  Lucas is finally understanding Brad is not a man he can trust; he will find ways to justify/excuse all of his behaviors including illegal activity.  

I really liked, and was genuinely shocked by, Josslyn's and Lucas' conversation. Adult Lucas to my knowledge has never before expressed a POV about his childhood, esp. the time when his mother and father got divorced. I am now looking forward to an upcoming spoiler involving Lucas. 

The Show's gaffe of the day:  Nikolas looking at the webpage about Laura Spencer as mayor.  She had gone back to the name Webber when she was campaigning or at least by the time she was sworn into office. 

Yes, Carly, newborn Donna is totally going to start drinking or engage in other bad behavior from the example Josslyn sets. It's unusual for siblings with that big of an age difference to have a prominent place in each other's lives. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Bringonthedrama

[YaddaYadda]

34 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I'm pretty sure if you lie enough times it circles around to the truth.  Right?  That totally has to be right.  

You would think so. But this is Brad and he is a scumbag. 

[Captanne]

Ever since I came back to somewhat regular viewing (about a year ago?), I have really liked Lucas and the actor who plays him.  I'm unimpressed with Brad.  Wiley is a strange little baby, I have to say.  I don't warm up to that tiny Truman Capote.  So, it always makes me happy to see more Lucas screen time. 

I'm sorry I missed the Jason stand-in -- each time I see him perform and in retrospective photos (saw one today of him with Hayden on that link in someone's post above on this page) -- he is very handsome and seems like a completely connected kind of actor who can draw in a sympathetic audience.  Billy Somebody.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

I'm sorry. I do not know how to multi-quote on this forum,

Just click on the quote icon that is on the far left bottom that has a + sign in front of it.

[Melgaypet]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I should have said, he failed for me. He wasn't Lucky. Just as Yelly McYellerson wasn't Lucky. I think he was worse. But for me, neither had any characteristics that defined Lucky.

I think Greg Vaughan brought back some of Lucky's innate sweetness that was lacking in Jacob Young's portrayal. But other than that, I agree, he wasn't Lucky. For one thing - and for this I blame both the writing and the acting - Vaughan's Lucky was so stupid that I was frankly amazed he was able to tie his own shoes.

[ulkis]

12 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

I think Greg Vaughan broughtback some of Lucky's innate sweetness that was lacking in Jacob Young's portrayal. But other than that, I agree, he wasn't Lucky. For one thing - and for this I blame both the writing and the acting - Vaughan's Lucky was so stupid that I was frankly amazed he was able to tie his own shoes.

Yeah, I think that was my main problem with Greg. His Lucky came off crushingly stupid. 

I gotta say though now having seen him in action I don't think Mark Lawson would have been a great pick either.

[lala2]

24 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Just click on the quote icon that is on the far left bottom that has a + sign in front of it.

Awww . . . thank you 🙂 

[statsgirl]

Carly and Jax "Joss, we're so disappointed in you." Does that really work? Because I wouldn't have cared when I was a teen.

I'm finding this Nik to be more Cassidine than Spencer.  Although I lol'ed at Jax being horrified at Joss finally being able to live with him. Stand up to Nikolas, Jax, and tell him he needs to move out.

[GHScorpiosRule]

47 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

I think Greg Vaughan brought back some of Lucky's innate sweetness that was lacking in Jacob Young's portrayal. But other than that, I agree, he wasn't Lucky. For one thing - and for this I blame both the writing and the acting - Vaughan's Lucky was so stupid that I was frankly amazed he was able to tie his own shoes.

Ha! So true! Forget about the fact that he would become a cop--he was dumb as a bag of rocks. And I mean, all the street smarts, cunning that wee Lucky had and even teen Lucky, were gone. One of the reasons I was happy for Jonathan returning, was, since Lucky was a cop, the smarts returned. He knew how to use the 'puter! and hack! I loved his buddy-buddy partner relationship with Dante.

Though I won't lie--I laughed when Laura burst into hysterical laughter when she "woke up" in time to renew her vows with Luke--at finding out Lucky was a cop. Good Times! Good Times!

32 minutes ago, lala2 said:

Awww . . . thank you 🙂 

You're welcome.

[YaddaYadda]

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Carly and Jax "Joss, we're so disappointed in you." Does that really work? Because I wouldn't have cared when I was a teen.

Nothing made more uncomfortable or sadder than disappointing my parents. So I guess it depends. 

[Auntie Velvet]

I wish the show would decide what Laura's name is. She changed it back to Webber for her swearing in. Then when she reconciled with the real Kevin, she started introducing herself as Laura Collins. But when Nick was looking at the mayoral web site, it said, "Laura Spencer's Story."

Of course, that's somewhat realistic because IRL websites are slow to catch up! 😉 But still.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

18 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Carly and Jax "Joss, we're so disappointed in you." Does that really work? Because I wouldn't have cared when I was a teen.

I'm finding this Nik to be more Cassidine than Spencer.  Although I lol'ed at Jax being horrified at Joss finally being able to live with him. Stand up to Nikolas, Jax, and tell him he needs to move out.

What might have worked was if they had told her that AAAAHSCERRRRRR would be soooo disappointed in you.

With all the planning and strategizing he's done, I can't believe he hasn't found another place to hide until his Reveeeeeeeel.

3 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Nothing made more uncomfortable or sadder than disappointing my parents. So I guess it depends. 

Since Joss is her mama's daughter, I'm surprised she didn't call SheBeast a hypocrite.

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Carly and Jax "Joss, we're so disappointed in you." Does that really work? Because I wouldn't have cared when I was a teen.

Especially if your mom was Carly and you had access to Google.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

Disappointing Jax would bother me. Disappointing Carly would likely mean I was doing something right.

[Bringonthedrama]

Unrelated to my post today ...does it make me a bad person that I want Jax to tell Carly Josslyn shouldn't move in with him right now because Brenda just came to Port Charles for at least a visit and is staying at his place? Carly was giving him a suspicious look today and you know she's going to press him on the subject.  I want to see Carly and Sonny's territorial heads pop off from rage. 

[Sake614]

How did brad have time to edit the recording of him and Julian before playing it for Lucas? Because Julian clearly said something about Nellie. And I really wanted to punch Brad today. I had started warming up to him since he and Lucas got together and even felt somewhat bad for him when the real Wiley died. But damn if he didn’t just toss all that aside today. I hope Lucas kicks him to the curb even without knowing the truth. 
 

way to go Jax. You just made Carly super suspicious of you by not jumping at the chance to have Joss stay with you. All summer you’ve been trying to get her to live with you and now that Carly is open to the idea, you nix it? We know it’s because of nikolas but she doesn’t.  Just tell Nik to get lost and have joss spend time with you.

lastly, fuck off Kim. 

[Bringonthedrama]

8 hours ago, lala2 said:

. If Olivia and Laura don't like their choices in romantic partners, that's on them. They can keep their feelings to themselves. If the kids are not being harmed (which they aren't), it's really none of their business.  

This is really all about perspective b/c as I see it, Laura and some others in PC have accepted that Franco is not the same man he was. They have accepted that he had a brain tumor, which impacted his actions. They judge him for the man he is now rather than the man he was. I have no issue or problem w/that. I don't think that makes Laura OOC.  From what Laura sees, Franco does care about Liz. He does care about Liz's boys. The boys like him. They are a happy family unit. I'm not sure why Laura should be expressing all this concern about Franco now. 

This is not actually accurate in the case of Elizabeth's kids. It's true that Franco has not been physically abusive, threatened them, or verbally/emotionally abused them, but his judgement has harmed them. Franco acts without considering what the fallout could be, for example when he held Tom prisoner. He agreed with Jordan to confess to killing Ryan's victims, lied to Elizabeth and gave her no warning. Franco's name was all over the media. Kids at school were saying stuff about Franco and Elizabeth as a result, so Cam got in a fight and got beat up. Later when Franco was recovering from being stabbed, Elizabeth told him the police tore apart their home when he was arrested and that was awful for Jake and Aiden to experience. But because she loved him and missed him and knew that the boys thought of him as a stepdad, she decided to not deal with the issue of his judgement and told him to just come home. Laura and Elizabeth should have both been expressing concern all this time about the true reasons for Cam's obvious dislike of and non-acceptance of Franco. Laura started to right before the wedding party, but then just said well this is going to happen because your mom and brothers love Franco so you better get on board.

Cam specifically has been harmed because Elizabeth and Franco have never, not once, tried to have a real conversation with Cam about his feelings and concerns about Franco's past and present. They just didn't want to deal with the reality that Cam might bring up valid reasons for not accepting Franco. Their attitude has basically been, well we love each other and your brothers adore Franco so get over it. I call that a parenting fail.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Bringonthedrama

[FilmTVGeek80]

12 hours ago, lala2 said:

Oh, I blame the writing too. It was awful. Many may disagree but I didn't think JJ should have been fired for GV . For me, GV was the best adult Lucky. I know JJ didn't like the writing, but we had a good Lucky - IMO at least - and that guy was fired for JJ to come back and then JJ left again. And after he left, the character was utterly trashed. It's a shame b/c if GV hadn't been fired, he'd probably still be on canvas. 

I agree with you wholeheartedly about this! I was livid when they fired him! I liked JJ's Lucky well enough when he was a kid, but I was never particularly attached to him. GV was always my preferred Lucky and still it. The writing for JJ's Lucky did nothing to change my opinion once he came back. I never bought into this idea that GV's Lucky was too dumb to live. I hated the writing for him and how he was made to be a loser to prop up the almighty Jason.

As far as Lucky being a deadbeat now, I mostly agree with you there as well. I don't like Friz or Franco very much. Franco could leave tomorrow and I wouldn't care. I've had a like/hate relationship with Liz for years, but this has probably been the longest time, generally speaking, I've gone without loathing her. I can't lay the blame at Franco/Friz for how Lucky's being written. Yeah, Laura does do some Franco propping duty but mostly I don't think it's being done at Lucky's expense. I don't blame any of the characters on-screen for not addressing the Lucky issue. There's nothing much to be done when the show refuses to bring the character back. The show could choose to write him more like they did Jax when he was gone (which is a miracle that they didn't destroy Jax to prop up Sonny as the best father ever - the Corinthii love collecting other people's children) but for some reason they pretty much chose to ignore his existence 70% of the time. It would probably upset me more if this were GV's Lucky but since it's JJ's it doesn't bother me too much.

[dubbel zout]

5 hours ago, ulkis said:

Yeah, I think that was my main problem with Greg. His Lucky came off crushingly stupid. 

We didn't call him Larry for nothing. GV gave his character some lovely qualities, but that character wasn't Lucky.

Nik should be hiding somewhere on Spoon Island. The place is big enough.

When did Julian "take care of Sonny and Avery"? Laura was the one who told Sonny to show a crumb of human decency.

[FilmTVGeek80]

I really hate this whole plot point of Julian blackmailing Brad. Not because I'm mad Julian is doing something underhanded. I'm fine with him still showing his bad side on occasion. Or that I necessarily feel bad for Brad, but it just feels stupidly unnecessary. I mean, I get Julian getting fed up with Brad being so teary and a basket case and demanding his help, but this just feels like a dumb way to try and fix that situation.

Like I said, I don't feel sorry for Brad and I'm kind of annoyed he got the upperhand on Julian but I am a bit happy to see how he did it. Over on DOOL right now, there's a galactically stupid storyline that could be solved if someone just recorded the other person blackmailing them. Plenty of posters have pointed it out and it tickles me that GH actually had a character do this and actually wrote a character like they were in the 21st Century and as smart enough to do this. It's also in keeping with Brad's character. He came on as a schemer. I can't really blame Julian for forgetting that about Brad considering how spineless he's been lately, but it's not surprising he'd do this. He really had nothing to lose. Now, Julian can't do anything. He can't hurt Brad without it tracing back to him and it's not like Julian can expose Brad's true lie, because it would bite Julian in the ass and hurt Lucas, which Julian claims to not want to do.

[Ladyrain]

8 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

The flip phone dialogue was sort of hilarious.

I think I saw Joss trying to stifle a smile.   For real. 

[Ladyrain]

Re:   Discussion of Lucky.    I'd love love love for Jonathan Jackson to return, but that's probably never going to happen - and even if it did, I'd always be worried that he'd leave for  supposed bigger and better things.   ---------    At this point in GH's storyline, I want Lucky (almost any Lucky) to return.   The character is absolutely crucial to everything that's happening now.   Liz' heartbreak.   Aiden's gay storyline.   Cam's teen angst.   Nik returning from the dead.   Laura trying to deal with all this.    ----------    Lucky was iconic back in the day and it's difficult to believe that in all of Hollywood and beyond, they can't find a suitable re-cast for the character.   ---------    I'm a huuuuuuge JJ fan, but at this point I'd be willing to accept a believable substitute.   Emphasis on believable.

[ulkis]

31 minutes ago, Ladyrain said:

Re:   Discussion of Lucky.    I'd love love love for Jonathan Jackson to return, but that's probably never going to happen - and even if it did, I'd always be worried that he'd leave for  supposed bigger and better things.   ---------    At this point in GH's storyline, I want Lucky (almost any Lucky) to return.   The character is absolutely crucial to everything that's happening now.   Liz' heartbreak.   Aiden's gay storyline.   Cam's teen angst.   Nik returning from the dead.   Laura trying to deal with all this.    ----------    Lucky was iconic back in the day and it's difficult to believe that in all of Hollywood and beyond, they can't find a suitable re-cast for the character.   ---------    I'm a huuuuuuge JJ fan, but at this point I'd be willing to accept a believable substitute.   Emphasis on believable.

ITA. i'm a huge JJ fan, but to deem JJ/Lucky can't be recast because they chose Jacob Young (square-jawed Backstreet Boy) and Greg Vaughn (charming but mediocre acting model) doesn't make sense imo.