S31.E02: Survivor MacGyver

[ProfCrash]

Tony won BBB. Spenser, Kass, and Tasha are all from the Brains tribe that was awful. Woo was on the Brawn tribe with Tony, Trish, Cliff and Sarah.

[Miss Scarlet]

I don't understand the tears for Savage's story. I burst out laughing during his dramatic pause and kept laughing hysterically for the rest of it. It was so ridiculous.

 

Abi's chimney moment with Pei-Ghee was a close second for most hilarious moment of the episode. She is an amazing trainwreck. 

Edited October 2, 2015 by wudpixie

[candall]

I just can't believe any of these experienced players decided--between the first and second challenges--to keep Abi around for FTC goat purposes.

 

If there were some innocuous sideliner, who wouldn't cost you challenges, and wouldn't rile anyone enough to target him anyway, then sure, swear the blood oath and mark him with a "G."

 

But who wants to spend 35 days holding down the clapper on a hand grenade with the pin pulled out?  Relax your grip and you're the first to die in the blast.  >coughshirincough<

[gunderda]

I apparently did not pay enough attention while watching this episode because I am SO confused how thing shifted and even more confused now that I'm reading posts on here.  I'm sad I already deleted it from my DVR because I feel like I need to watch it again.  I can watch it on-demand I suppose.

[survivinmt]

I overestimated both Spencer and Shirin's game. I really like Spencer and I was not overly annoyed with Shirin (yet). But when they saw their demise coming I really think all they had to do was get the tribe together and confront Abi head on. She took on the hurt kitten role briefly (odd thing for a firecracker to do), and I really think if they would have put her on the spot in front of everybody for tattling about the alliance swing - she would have become a Brazilian suicide bomber. She could control it one-on-one with Shirin but she can't ever contain it in a group setting. It had to have been worth a shot anyway - I don't know about Varner and Peih Gee but I think both Kell(e)y's and Terry (possibly even Woo) would have been singed by the flames.

[millennium]

Was it Rob's zombie season where everyone knew he had the idol and just left him alone the entire game because of it (and because he's Rob)?   I always wonder if someone else could pull that off. 

 

I read this as Was it Rob Zombie's season where everyone knew he had the idol ....   lol.

[Lamb18]

Remember, there were only 32 people to choose from and you had to pick 20 - I didn't cast any votes because there weren't 20 people I wanted to see again and I didn't want to vote for someone I objected to less than someone else.  I don't dislike all of the players this season but there are more I'm not fond of or indifferent to than ones I'm rooting for.

Also you had to vote for 10 from each gender in order to submit your vote.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

The weirdest part of Andrew's story to me was that every single person appeared to buy into it. Like not one of them was like "Who gives a fuck?" about it. Maybe there were some and the editing just decided to keep that from us because they're going for an "Andrew's so great!" edit or something

 

If you write it down, without the tears and the dramatic presentation, it's not even a humblebrag, just a plain ol' brag.  Add in the weird histrionics and you've got one unpleasant and mystifying monologue there.

I think this was a case of the other players reading the room before displaying their reaction.  I have a feeling that most of them DID think WTF?????? but given that Jeremy for sure (and maybe others?) got emotional at the very thought of their families at home, the rest decided to not look like Grinches and acted like they'd just seen a Nicholas Sparks movie.

 

 

His hypocrisy over Fishbach's comment is typical Savage. A more self-involved tossbag you will not find. He has this impossibly narrow view of gender - men are these 3 qualities, women for the most part are irrelevant because they lack those qualities. Exist beyond those boundaries and he has nothing but contempt for you.

Yeah and it is so frightening. Of course he defines his wife only through her attractiveness. That's the only thing that matters about women to him. He is such a sexist prick.

That was the creepiest part of the story - that he didn't name one quality about his wife that mattered to him other than her physical beauty.

 

Still it was the Fishbach comments that really got to me.

 

I do sense some underlying innuendo regarding Stephen but I was leaning more to it being about his being Jewish

I'm another that was hearing  anti-Semitism in his comments - the whole idea that Those People are smarter and more intellectual  than Us, but somehow thus lack morality, decency, and basic humanity. Also the idea that Jewish men are weakings.  I realise that's a heavy accusation so maybe I'm wrong - maybe this was just more of Savage's garden variety doucheiness.

 

 

Deciding to, and then being able to, manage the loose cannons on Survivor has always been extremely tricky.  You're making a deal with the (Tasmanian) Devil.  But as long as you have an exit strategy to hit the Eject button on the loon, it can work.

What never works is trying to ignore the loose cannon, or acting like they're completely irrelevant

It killed me when Spencer and Shirin were talking on the beach with their alliance and they both were just COUNTING Abi's vote as their fifth vote.  Jesus!  If one of your necessary votes is a hyper-emotional irrational trainwreck nutjob, YOU NEED TO SECURE AN ADDITIONAL  VOTE.  I knew right then that sooner or later that alliance had had it.

Edited October 2, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[cooksdelight]

The way alliances have already been all over the place, this season should be nothing short of a record-breaker.

[ljenkins782]

Andrew, your disdain for Stephen is noted. It feels like a code to me, but I won't make any assumptions. Ass. I do feel vindicated for never warming to him.

 

Agreed. Plus, it's really hard for me to get teary-eyed hearing how a guy found a supermodel in his house. I guess you had to be there.

 

Lol, seriously. Much has already been said about Savage's speech, but it was definitely his delivery that irked me. The whole construct of it was like "I had this amazing job with access to Playboy models and this amazing supermodel materialized in my life (she was also a law student, so smart AND beautiful, etc.) and blah blah blah" 

 

Maybe it bugged me coming on the heels of his "I have a perfect life except for that one time you guys screwed me out of winning Survivor..." speech from last week, I don't know. The guy bugs me. 

 

And his disdain for Stephen seems exactly like his disdain for Skinny Ryan on Pearl Islands. Savage seems like one of those guys who openly looks down on those less attractive or strong. 

 

As for Abi...ugh, still can't stand her. I would be far more annoyed if her antics had gotten rid of someone I liked more than Shirin, but I'm not wild about Shirin so no big loss this time. 

 

She's aggravating because she CAUSES all the drama and then complains that no one is "comforting" her. Perhaps she wouldn't need quite so much comforting if she didn't stir shit up on purpose. If I felt like it was pure strategy, it would be fairly brilliant, but it appears that that's just her personality. How exhausting. 

 

Abi's chimney moment with Pei-Ghee was a close second for most hilarious moment of the episode. She is an amazing trainwreck.

Ok, so when the episode was airing on Wednesday, I was out of the room for this scene and only heard the audio, so I assumed that PG and Spencer were talking and Abi ran up on them mid-conversation (like she did with Varner and Terry). But when I watched it again, it seemed like she was actually standing there WITH them when the conversation started so...where on earth did that outburst even come from? 

 

Varner is playing the  same way he did in Australia: stir the poop, walk away, and be all "what? me? really? no!!" as well as re-assure people. And he's doing it very well in the (sorry everyone) New-School train of thought. Please make the Merge, Varner. As people stated - he's very puppet-masterty, but that doesn't bug me - mostly because A: i think it's very smart, B: no one is picking up on it. v. smart.

 

Yeah, I remember watching a retrospective of the Australia season and the infamous chicken/wave my finger in your face fight, where they point out Varner stirring the whole thing up by riling up Alicia and then sauntering away before the shit hit the fan. 

 

He's clearly found his new Alicia in Abi and he has a specific talent for working with that type of personality that no one else on his tribe has. It's smart for him to keep her around, he can easily stroke her ego into loyalty (and an extra vote his way) and her outbursts seem to entertain him rather than irritate him.

 

Woo's face! He looked like someone was trying to explain quantum physics to him. That's why I was a bit shocked when he very concisely explained why he would NOT be working with those two.

 

 

Ha, he did look like they were speaking a foreign language all through the speech, so for him to come back with a completely clear-headed and reasonable response was awesome. 

 

I know I said it all last season, but Shirin reminds me so much of Shii Ann and it was super strong in this episode. Shii Ann was another one who was happy to sit around complacently within a big alliance and only talk to one or two people and then when that alliance wasn't in power anymore, start scrambling around and trying to tell everyone else about their own game. 

 

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but overall I think people who read others well and can relate to them have a better chance at this game than those who understand the game but disregard the people aspect.

Yup. Shirin's analysis of Woo's future in the game was not necessarily wrong, but she has zero ability to sell the story (on top of the fact that she forgets to interact with people until she desperately needs them) and that's what sinks her. 

 

[Nashville]

Abi is a shrew and not very bright.  She keeps intruding into conversations and then saying bizarre things.  The oddest was when Spencer and Peih Gee were talking about making a chimney and Abi butted in with some off the wall challenging comment to PG.  Spencer had the funniest WTF look on his face.  I don't know why Abi detests PG so, but I don't really care.  Abi is looney and she can't be gone soon enough for me.

This all over the frikkin' place. I'm normally a pretty empathetic person, but for the life of me I just can't get the Abi sympathy, because (a) she goes WAY WAY out of her way to intentionally irritate and provoke people - sometimes just for fun, apparently - then (b) cries, whines and complains when her "victims" respond negatively to her negative provocation.

The only near-rationale I can come up with for Abi-errant's behavior is she has spent the majority of her life surrounded by syncophants who regularly excuse her for her bad behavior and insulate her from its consequences. She appears to be laboring under the delusion that everything she says and does - including her most disruptive behavior - is "cute", and there's something wrong with everybody else when they don't immediately recognize her "cuteness". Life is The Abi Show!, after all, and she's Abi!!!. Haven't these other people - these bit players - bothered to read the script? There's also the issue of her social double standards. In AbiWorld, Abi is free to trash-talk anyone she wants with no reprisal - but let anyone demonstrate the exact same behavior toward HER, and it suddenly morphs into an unforgivable social affront which requires immediate retaliatory response.

So - IF Abi's behavior in Survivor is any kind of true representation of how Abi is IRL - and for her sake I really hope that's not the case - life has taught her it's okay to act in an alienating manner, but not to anticipate an alienating response. I don't know who's been kissing Abi's ass all her life - but whoever it was, they sure weren't doing her any favors.

  

I read this as Was it Rob Zombie's season where everyone knew he had the idol ....   lol.

Good - it wasn't just me, then. :>

[ratgirlagogo]

Forgot to say how much I loved the monkeys and even more, the screaming deer.  I really need a screaming deer.

[meep.meep]

I must have missed the screaming deer, but I too really need one.  I like the scrunchy up lips little monkey.  Have we had any slithering snake moments yet?

[Special K]

The deer was the greatest. 

 

I also like the black bird with the writhing insect in its beak. 

 

But the deer was the best.

[Nashville]

I must have missed the screaming deer, but I too really need one.  I like the scrunchy up lips little monkey.  Have we had any slithering snake moments yet?

Bunches.

Me, I liked the screaming deer as well.

Closest thing we have around these parts are goats. They can scream - and sometimes they faint.

Screaming deer, though? Not so much.

[Gummo]

Okay, it's been bugging me since her first season: who does Abi remind me of?

 

And it came to me after this week's episode:

 

Tommy Wiseau.

 

Whew.  Now I just need her to walk up to the shelter and say, "Oh, hai, PG" and the circle will complete.

 

(Apologies to those who have no idea what I'm talking about; to anyone who does, don't you see it!?)

[Hera]

Okay, it's been bugging me since her first season: who does Abi remind me of?

 

And it came to me after this week's episode:

 

Tommy Wiseau.

 

Whew.  Now I just need her to walk up to the shelter and say, "Oh, hai, PG" and the circle will complete.

 

(Apologies to those who have no idea what I'm talking about; to anyone who does, don't you see it!?)

I see it more as Peih-Gee being subject of the preceding rant. "I did not hit her. It's not true. It's bullshit—I did not hit her. I did NOOOOT. Oh hi Jeff."

 

I kind of see what you mean—Abi's English is excellent, but her accent (and sometimes word choice) gives her away as not being a native speaker without giving away where she actually is from. But while she doesn't always behave appropriately, I'm pretty sure Abi knows what a normal human interaction is supposed to look like—the jury's still out on whether or not Tommy Wiseau does.

 

ETA: For those of you who do not get the reference, I give you one of the more famous scenes from Tommy Wiseau's masterpiece, The Room: YouTube link (I'd give you context for the scene, but since the film is a jumbled mess of things that happen for no particular reason, there is none). You only need to watch the first eight seconds or so.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Hera

[ratgirlagogo]

 

I kind of see what you mean—Abi's English is excellent, but her accent (and sometimes word choice) gives her away as not being a native speaker without giving away where she actually is from. But while she doesn't always behave appropriately, I'm pretty sure Abi knows what a normal human interaction is supposed to look like—the jury's still out on whether or not Tommy Wiseau does.

I don't think Abi is anything near as bad as Tommy Wiseau either  - but now that  the connection has been made in my mind, boy is it hard to shake.  Tee hee.

[Paron Xanthis]

Woo was on the Brawn tribe with Tony, Trish, Cliff and Sarah.

And quitter Lindsey.  Don't forget her.

[Croquetteknits]

Totally agree with this. For me, the moment is when Fairplay came and "robbed" their camp, and Savage just went on that rant about how they were going to get back at them for it. Their tribe was so beaten down at that point, and he single-handedly won that next challenge for them. (I believe he called Fairplay a "pissant," which I could never be mad at.) This time around he's skeeving me out. I will say, though, that Fishbach needs to cool it with the open paranoia until he can get his alliance more established. J.T. isn't here this time.

 

I'm someone who both can't stand Abi and thinks that Shirin terribly misplayed the situation with her. If you're going to make Abi your goat and align with her, then you have to understand that you're going to need to coddle her and put up with her behavior unless you're willing to cut her loose before the finals. She is a Russell Hantz. She is a Coach. You can't upset her enough to make her flip unless you're sure you still have the numbers even if that happens. Laughing openly at her with all of her other alliance-mates was the worst possible thing Shirin could have done.

Agree completely!  If you decide that you must absolutely align with such a volatile player, you better be ready to be on 24/7 babysitting duty, like Boston Rob did with Phillip.  Shirin really did not play this right, and to her credit she seems to admit to that fact in her post-game interviews.  As much as she is a superfan, Shirin is way too intense and not socially adaptable enough to excel at Survivor.  I think if she were to play 10 times, her downfall would be due to the same factors every time.  I tend to have a soft spot for female nerds, because we are under-represented in TV and certainly in Survivor, but I don't need to see Shirin play Survivor again.

 

I really despise Abi's behavior : she's in her thirties and behaves like an immature high school girl from the mean clique.  She seems to have no real concern for the damage her words and actions cause and worse, thinks it's totally cute to be a Brazilian Dragon or whatever.  It's not cute and it's not endearing, except to drama-loving Jeff.  It's downright selfish to be forcing everyone around you to bend to your whims while never giving anybody else the benefit of the doubt when they do something you don't agree with.  She might be able to dampen this attitude in her day to day life but, in this stressful environment, it's pretty clear that IS the core of who she is.    

 

Stephen started on the wrong foot and I think his anxiety will be his downfall.  He seems unable to find safe ground and, unless he's extremely lucky, he's not seeing the merge.  I'm sorry about that since I have a soft spot for Stephen because of a small moment from Tocantins : when Erinn comes back from Exile and they are all freezing in the rain, he made sure to bring his sweater for her and wraps her in it to keep her warm.  Even in this first episode, you see him help the woman from the truck and into the boat. He just seems like a well-mannered, kind person who is probably his own worst enemy with the overthinking and anxiety.  Savage is not my type of guy, but there's no denying he's doing a good job at leading Bayon and no one on his tribe seems to have any troubles with him taking the leader spot.

[ByaNose]

I am dying to see how the Savage & Fishbach rivalry plays out. The editing is playing both sides and I can't tell who goes further. In the end, I want Stephen to do better but I wouldn't be totally upset if Savage does. Then I want to see if Savage & Terry go at it. In that case, I'm totally Team Deitz. To see two 50+ years old battling it out would be great considering they don't meet the current age demographic in casting. That said, Joey Amazing will probably ruin the whole thing since he IS the current age demographic in casting. LOL!!!!!

[Trick Question]

Okay, it's been bugging me since her first season: who does Abi remind me of?

 

And it came to me after this week's episode:

 

Tommy Wiseau.

If CBS ever does decide to do a full-on celebrity edition of Survivor, Tommy Wiseau has to be the first one cast.  Hell, even if not, put him on the show anyway --- if you can have Jimmy Johnson, Taj George, Lisa Whelchel, Jeff Kent, John Rocker, etc. in there with "regular" players, getting Tommy wouldn't be a stretch.

[azshadowwalker]

[Joe's] working hard and finding ways to make himself valuable to the tribe, outside of comps. He seems to be pretty adaptive, which is crucial to the "second chance" aspect. 

 

You mean, he's adopting the Rupert "provider" strategy? That is an old strategy that has gotten no one the win. The only providers who won had other things going for them. The only two I can think of are Hatch and Boston Rob, and Joe's nowhere near either of those players strategically. Anyway, when I see Joe's stupid hair, I only think of this and hope it's true.

 

[Wings]

I love Joe's hair.   I think it depends on where you were and what you were doing in the 60s to appreciate it.  I love a man with long hair.  

[LadyChatts]

I love Joe's manbun too.  I think I like it better when he wears it down, though in these circumstances, I see why he sticks to the bun.  I've seen pre-manbun pics of Joe, and while I definitely prefer him with long hair, he's not bad to look at it without it, either.

[Wings]

I love Joe's manbun too.  I think I like it better when he wears it down, though in these circumstances, I see why he sticks to the bun.  I've seen pre-manbun pics of Joe, and while I definitely prefer him with long hair, he's not bad to look at it without it, either.

 

 

I sense a kindred spirit here.  :>)

[cooksdelight]

I made it a rule to never date a man with prettier hair than mine. So, Joe's out. :D

Providers/gatherers usually wind up doing a lot of work and not getting credit for it, and not getting any rest. I think Sue Hawk dug up a small boatload of tapioca root for the Season 1 people. We see where that got her.

[LadyChatts]

I sense a kindred spirit here.  :>)

 

Funny story, but when I was in high school, I dated my own manbun and ended up dumping him for the equivalent of Rodney/Joaquin (something about a "bad boy" at 16 over a kind hearted guy with long hair seemed more exciting at the time).  But it's probably why I'm drawn to manbuns now.  I've always gone for the longer hair in men for the most part.

[ratgirlagogo]

I love long hair on men and I like Joe's hair, but don't find him attractive otherwise.  Malcolm and Ozzy I both found very hot (physically, anyway).

[peachmangosteen]

I think most of the guys get hotter the deeper into the season it goes.

 

For sure. Mike from last season is a great example of this. He was straight-up fine by the end.

 

I find Joe more cute than hot. He is adorable when he smiles. But the rest of the time he's somewhat of a butterface imo.

[fishcakes]

Joe looks a lot like my best friend from third grade, Kimberly.

 

For my money, the best looking man to ever appear on Survivor was Nick Brown from the Outback season. Brady from Vanuatu was also really good-looking, but more of a pretty boy and fairly dumb from what I can remember, although not as dumb as J.P., who was not as handsome as Brady but somehow much hotter. And I thought Grant from Redemption Island was interesting because he got very attractive a couple of weeks into the season, then he started to look like one of the cavemen from the Geico commercials, then he showed up at the reunion dressed like he was in the roadshow of Newsies.

 

On topic ... uh, I got nothing.

[pennben]

Wow! I didn't watch Varner in his season, but my goodness, that is one good looking younger Varner.  I fell for him this season for being fantastic entertainment.

[himela]

I don't believe for a second Abi was truly emotional after she heard them laughing at her. If nobody had come to talk to her, she would have created a big scene of "look at me, I'm the victims, they are bulies", she would have used it against PG and Shirin and probably would have the same result too. In her season (which I rewatched recently) she didn't show any sign of emotion unless she really needed it for her game. In the contrary, the more she felt she was at the bottom the more determined she would become. Being a victim is not Abi's thing but she faked it really well. And "connection with Terry"? Cut the crap. I bet she won't ever call him after the game is over. Abi is this kind of person who feels entitled to everything. She is satisfied with nothing, even when she is in the leading position she needs to create drama. I bet she will be voted out sooner than later. If they keep her to the end as the perfect person to take to the finals I will be disappointed. This is a season of good players competing and I expect them to have the decency to create a nice and worthy competition.

[rose711]

You mean, he's adopting the Rupert "provider" strategy? That is an old strategy that has gotten no one the win. The only providers who won had other things going for them. The only two I can think of are Hatch and Boston Rob, and Joe's nowhere near either of those players strategically. Anyway, when I see Joe's stupid hair, I only think of this and hope it's true.

Joe is the biggest challenge threat out there. Because of his visual- spatial ability with puzzles, he is a rare and valuable person to have on your tribe. He is a big survivor fan, and I think he knows how that provider strategy worked for others. He doesn't have many options, because he's a target from his previous season. He may survive longer than he should because the focus so far seems to be against strategic threats.

We haven't seen any real strategy from his tribe, so it is difficult to predict what will happen.

[rose711]

The vines beneath the figures didn't line up. Each half of the puzzle needed to be mirrored from the way Shirin and Spencer solved it. It's very subtle and incredibly frustrating, which I'm sure is what the production team was going for when they made it.

They had the left hand side of the puzzle on the right and the right hand side on the left. I have no idea how Joe recognized that pattern was incorrect and he removed a number of pieces to correct the error. There had to be something in the design that wasn't obvious to the audience.

Edited October 4, 2015 by rose711

[kikaha]

They had the left hand side of the puzzle on the right and the right hand side on the left.

 

Fixing their mistake would have been real, real hard.  Switching the sides would not do it.  The figures would still face the same way, instead of each other. 

 

Shirin and Spencer had to re-align probably every other piece of the puzzle -- in the right configuration of course.  Very complex and time consuming.  And that assumes they see their mistake, and understand how to make it right. 

[rose711]

Fixing their mistake would have been real, real hard. Switching the sides would not do it. The figures would still face the same way, instead of each other.

Shirin and Spencer had to re-align probably every other piece of the puzzle -- in the right configuration of course. Very complex and time consuming. And that assumes they see their mistake, and understand how to make it right.

Yes. A podcast I listened to said they had the middle wrong from the beginning. You are right, they might only have been able to recover if the other tribe made the same or worse mistake. I did get the sense Jeff was trying to hunt to them that they were wrong, by saying that the design would flow when they were finished.

It would be interesting to know how Joe saw that it was wrong because when they finished I thought it was correct until I saw Joe's version.

Edited October 4, 2015 by rose711

[Nashville]

1. The puzzle's picture had to be painted on both sides of the puzzle.  The puzzle solvers were on the opposite side of the puzzle board from Probst's (and our) point of view.  They weren't constantly looking over the top of the puzzle to see the image visible from our side to solve the puzzle, so they had to be looking at the same image from the opposite side to assemble the puzzle.

On Spence and Shirin's puzzle, the image on the right was assembled somewhat "correctly" (in the sense they had the correct pieces side-to-side), but oriented wrong; it was supposed to be a reflection of the image on the left, not a duplicate.  If (as I stated in #1) the puzzle sticks were painted the same on both sides, pulling up the entire right side set of sticks en masse and rotating the set 180 degrees would have resulted in the correct image.

Probst's "flow" clue was dead-on, if S&S had paid attention to it.  By duplicating (not reflecting) the left image on the right, the vine on the left-hand side of the right image was abruptly truncated in the middle of the puzzle board - hardly a smooth "flow".  If S&S had assembled a reflection instead of a duplication, the right image's vine cutoff would have been flush with the outside edge of the puzzle board - just as it was on the left image.

[rose711]

So the puzzle pieces were the same on each side?

I understand the hint about the flow of the image but I'm not sure in the moment I would have had the presence of mind to see it like Joe did. I think once the middle pieces are wrong, it was impossible to correct quickly.

[ghoulina]

Joe is the biggest challenge threat out there. Because of his visual- spatial ability with puzzles, he is a rare and valuable person to have on your tribe. He is a big survivor fan, and I think he knows how that provider strategy worked for others. He doesn't have many options, because he's a target from his previous season. He may survive longer than he should because the focus so far seems to be against strategic threats.

 

Yes. I think Joe is using the "provider" strategy to try and get the target off his back because of how good he is at challenges. Providing isn't the only thing he has going for him, but hopefully it can get him far enough and then his strengths can really carry him.

[ToastnBacon]

Yes. I think Joe is using the "provider" strategy to try and get the target off his back because of how good he is at challenges. Providing isn't the only thing he has going for him, but hopefully it can get him far enough and then his strengths can really carry him.

I agree with the poster up-thread who claimed that the provider strategy doesn't carry a player beyond the first couple of votes.

By the time the game starts to really ramp up, people aren't thinking about who can catch fish when they vote.

If anything, keeping too busy building shelter and fishing might isolate a player from the game, unless they are able to be inclusive with their hunter-gatherer activities.

I'm a big Rupert hater, and part of the reason I dislike that obnoxious muppet is the way he constantly touted his prowess at spear fishing and tending the campfire.

I don't think Joe is in any danger of becoming a campfire troll like Rupert, but I doubt that he is enhancing his game much by building hammocks and fishing.

Although it is extremely hard to glimpse the reality of Survivor from what we are shown, I get the impression that he is just enjoying the camping out aspect of the game.

Edited October 4, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[kikaha]

Nashville, I think you are right.  S&S had to take out the entire right side; turn the pieces around; and then move the piece that had been at the end to the middle... 2nd from the end to 2nd from middle... and so on. 

 

So if they saw the problem, and how to fix it, they could have done so fairly quickly. 

 

I wonder how long it took Joe to do the puzzle? 

[Kromm]

I think Shirin left with good grace, but I DO wonder if she finally gets that she ACTUALLY got on the outside for the SAME reason both times.

 

The phrase "playing too hard" is no coincidence.  It's misleading of course. What they actually mean is "playing too OVERTLY". Ironically "overtly" can mean secret meetings in the jungle OR sitting around in camp discussing strategy.  The main point is that Shirin had no ability to NOT appear scheming and sneaky.

 

Not just Spencer, but also Fishbach is making the same mistake too.  These self-professed "Survivor experts" are inevitably social game morons, and the legend of "Old School vs, New School" has been built around their ignorance and the toe-hold they've created in "Survivor culture" to express their gamesmanship/strategic expertise.  If there are real camps of play, they aren't fixed points. I think the difference is between building relationships and placing an emphasis on strategizing.

 

Take Boston Rob. His most winning season was based on him socially controlling the game.  Sure it may have started with a strategy session, but on some level that last time Rob became aware he had to at least APPEAR open (even if dominating) rather than "sneaky". Shirin, Spencer, Fishbach... they're all stuck in a game mode that doesn't work in reality, even if it plays nice when they put up blogs or go on Rob C's podcast to talk about the game.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Kromm

[cooksdelight]

This is a funny recap from Pete, but he talks really fast so it's sometimes hard to understand. And a spoiler warning, he does talk about the previews at the end. As soon as he talks about Shirin's ouster, stop it if you don't want to know.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S6bcBDdol3c&sns=tw

[wonald]

thx. does Pete have ADD? No wonder he and Abi get along.

[cooksdelight]

He likes lots of coffee. :)

[rose711]

I think Shirin left with good grace, but I DO wonder if she finally gets that she ACTUALLY got on the outside for the SAME reason both times.

The phrase "playing too hard" is no coincidence. It's misleading of course. What they actually mean is "playing too OVERTLY". Ironically "overtly" can mean secret meetings in the jungle OR sitting around in camp discussing strategy. The main point is that Shirin had no ability to NOT appear scheming and sneaky.

Not just Spencer, but also Fishbach is making the same mistake too. These self-professed "Survivor experts" are inevitably social game morons, and the legend of "Old School vs, New School" has been built around their ignorance and the toe-hold they've created in "Survivor culture" to express their gamesmanship/strategic expertise. If there are real camps of play, they aren't fixed points. I think the difference is between building relationships and placing an emphasis on strategizing.

Take Boston Rob. His most winning season was based on him socially controlling the game. Sure it may have started with a strategy session, but on some level that last time Rob became aware he had to at least APPEAR open (even if dominating) rather than "sneaky". Shirin, Spencer, Fishbach... they're all stuck in a game mode that doesn't work in reality, even if it plays nice when they put up blogs or go on Rob C's podcast to talk about the game.

I think it goes beyond the players and into the way some fans and all the commentators view a player or a season. It gets very one note and has people looking at just strategy instead of social relationships.

I posted after last week that Shirin and Spencer didn't even have a second target for their alliance. Anyone could have known that Varner was never going to vote out Terry or Kelly in week 2, and no one sees Woo as a threat, plus they need his strength. But not a single expert talked about that.

It's getting frustrating to me that all the commentary is the strategy instead of social dynamics, or the difficulty of the challenges or the beauty of the show.

That challenge was intense and looked so difficult. None of the podcasters mention the strength required to play survivor or even the difficulty of the puzzle , or Joe's skill at solving these visual puzzles,as we discussed here.

It's all about out who is going home and why.

I think I have overly obsessed myself with this show and the podcasts. I'm going back to just watching and enjoying it, and maybe posting about it here.

Edited October 4, 2015 by rose711

[Kromm]

I still occasionally enjoy the podcasts, but I've usually got a narrative running through my head about the tunnel-vision these folks have.  They might give lip service to the social game, but it never seems like they quite understand it for real.

[Zuleikha]

It's getting frustrating to me that all the commentary is the strategy instead of social dynamics, or the difficulty of the challenges or the beauty of the show.

Social dynamics are hard to show on TV. It's very rare that you get something like the Shirin/Abi blow up in which Shirin's missteps are clear and obvious. 

[rose711]

Social dynamics are hard to show on TV. It's very rare that you get something like the Shirin/Abi blow up in which Shirin's missteps are clear and obvious.

But that is exactly why podcasts should explore them. They should be adding to the show or at least not diminishing it. There are plenty of superficial dynamics to explore (like Savage and Stephen) and then there are the comments added in interviews. Shirin wasn't a target because of the Abi fight, she became a target after she went to Terry,against the advice of her ally Kelley, to try to vote out Varner.

The Abi fight didn't explain why Kelley went against Shirin and Spencer.

Anyway, an expert podcast might do more than just discuss who voted for who and if it's the right move. I guess I never really noticed it until last week when no one criticized Shirin and Spencer's move against Vytas. They didn't even discuss how they barely won the vote.