S02.E02: Without A Country

[Timetoread]

I'd like to see more of Terrence Howard singing on this show.  I think he sings just fine.

 

Dear GOD, for the love of all that's decent and holy,  NO!

 

 

It was very confusing for me, too. I had already forgotten what Luscious' real name was, and apparently he was biracial as a child.

 

I just spit out my drink!

[Neurochick]

It was very confusing for me, too. I had already forgotten what Luscious' real name was, and apparently he was biracial as a child.

 

Is Lucious supposed to be biracial?  Just because a black person is light skinned, doesn't mean they're biracial, even if one parent is dark.  It happens a lot.

 

Sorry but  I get annoyed when folks think just because a black person is light, they have to be biracial.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Neurochick

[aprilbabe]

Is Lucious supposed to be biracial?  Just because a black person is light skinned, doesn't mean they're biracial, even if one parent is dark.  It happens a lot.

 

Sorry but  I get annoyed when folks think just because a black person is light, they have to be biracial.

Yea I was about to say...A darker skinned person can absolutely produce a child of a lighter complextion. Two darker skinned people can produce a light skinned child. And we have no idea what Lucious dad looks like. Case in point my mother is light skinned and my father is dark skinned. I completely got my mothers complextion to the point where i look damn near white in my baby pics. I can have a baby with another like skinned male and produce a child the complextion of my father. That gene may not be dominent but its still in me.

Edited October 1, 2015 by aprilbabe

[DollEyes]

  Two for two. This show just keeps getting better. it's like the crazier it gets, the better. Even in prison, Lucius gets shit done, whether it was whacking Frank Gathers in the S2 premiere or doing new music, getting a new lawyer-who, like Lucius, has his own less-than-legal methods of getting what he wants-or dealing with Clyde, the corrupt prison guard. I liked the latest shout-outs to Hustle & Flow such as having Ludacris, aka "Skinny Black," playing Clyde & Clyde trying to steal Lucius' music and catching a beatdown. Speaking of music, as much as I hate to admit it, "Snitch Bitch" is tight. I was bopping  right along with it. As for the aptly-named "Thirsty" Rawlins, Lucius' new lawyer, I like him. He's pushy, sleazy & tacky, but he's also smart, through & funny. Thirsty didn't get the charges dropped against Lucius, but he did get bail with a little help from the judge. Even better is that he's played by Andre Royo, aka "Bubbles." That TPTB are smart enough to use actors from The Wire, one of the greatest TV shows of all time is just another reason to love Empire.

 

  However, as much as I loved Lucius' new track, that's how much I hated him for his treatment of Andre. Andre can no more help who he is than Jamal can, not that I'm comparing being gay with being bipolar. To Andre's credit, he saw right away that Lyon Dynasty, the new label, is headed for disaster and he chose to jump ship, for not just his sake, but for Rhonda's and their unborn child. That Lucius is willing to punish Andre for something that's not his fault is just one of the reasons why I'll never love him.

 

  Speaking of the new label, between Hakeem's basically using it as a front to pick up girls and his pulling a Beyoncé and leaking his album without Empire's permission, exposing LD to a lawsuit in the process, it's pretty much doomed from the start, despite Cookie's involvement. Hakeem may be talented, but when it comes to the business side, he's not just stuck on stupid, he's marooned there.

Edited October 6, 2015 by DollEyes

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

On Empire, Everyone's A Little Thirsty
So take a big drink of law enforcement brutality, parental rejection, and blackmail!

[drivethroo]

I thought Tiana was wearing Kanye Kouture?

 

Thirsty Rawlings is the lawyer you need.

 

I thought it should've been obvious that the light skinned boy was Luscious & Kelly was playing his mom, not that Kelly was a young Cookie and the light skinned child was Andre.  Plus, Taraji has been playing young Cookie in flashbacks.  Why would they all of a sudden use Kelly Rowland as young Cookie?

 

Snitch, Bitch is my jam!

[JenE4]

Props to those who figured out that was baby Lucious with his mentally ill mother. I thought that was baby Andre and had no clue who the woman was supposed to be. They should have given us some context clues with furniture and clothing from the sixties rather than being close up on their faces alone. I mean they already had the wardrobe on set with Cookie's '60s plaid jumpsuit monstrosity.

Lucious, probably a bad idea to release a song about how your bitch snitched you out for murdering someone when, you know, you haven't even gone to trial for it yet. Wait until you're acquitted and double jeopardy kicks in, then do your musical autobiography in the vein of OJ's "If I Did It." Granted, I didn't catch all of the lyrics, but it seemed pretty detailed with giving names of possible witnesses and everything ("You tell so-and-so...go and tell so-and so..."). Ms. Boobalicious, Esq., is going to submit that song as Exhibit A. And, really lady? I was going to give her the benefit of the doubt that maybe every single blouse she owned was at the dry cleaners and that's why she only wore a blazer to the prison or was just trying to distract Lucious*, but to show up in court with the girls hiked up on full display? She ALMOST made Thirsty look professional in his purple suit. *Then again, she was given an envelope with the "evidence," too, and didn't seem fazed, so maybe that's how she wins her cases in front of the (dis)Honorable Judge McFreaky.

[RCharter]

Props to those who figured out that was baby Lucious with his mentally ill mother. I thought that was baby Andre and had no clue who the woman was supposed to be. They should have given us some context clues with furniture and clothing from the sixties rather than being close up on their faces alone. I mean they already had the wardrobe on set with Cookie's '60s plaid jumpsuit monstrosity.

Lucious, probably a bad idea to release a song about how your bitch snitched you out for murdering someone when, you know, you haven't even gone to trial for it yet. Wait until you're acquitted and double jeopardy kicks in, then do your musical autobiography in the vein of OJ's "If I Did It." Granted, I didn't catch all of the lyrics, but it seemed pretty detailed with giving names of possible witnesses and everything ("You tell so-and-so...go and tell so-and so..."). Ms. Boobalicious, Esq., is going to submit that song as Exhibit A. And, really lady? I was going to give her the benefit of the doubt that maybe every single blouse she owned was at the dry cleaners and that's why she only wore a blazer to the prison or was just trying to distract Lucious*, but to show up in court with the girls hiked up on full display? She ALMOST made Thirsty look professional in his purple suit. *Then again, she was given an envelope with the "evidence," too, and didn't seem fazed, so maybe that's how she wins her cases in front of the (dis)Honorable Judge McFreaky.

 

I suspect her envelope had a single piece of paper with the words "You Suck!" on it.

[BigBlueMastiff]

Let me  jump on the Andre Arroyo love train. Love his character, and that Harvard-U of Guam line was classic. Then the way he got that track back, and got to the judge makes me think Luscious is going to owe this man big time. Hope that means he becomes a permanent fixture at Empire.

 

I also didn't make the connection that KRow was Luscious' mom. I thought it was Cookie and Andre.

[TobinAlbers]

Can't stop thinking about that flashback we got of young Lucious (Dwight) with his mom where we see that his mom was also mentally ill/bi-polar and it suddenly gave his interaction with Andre a whole new lens.

 

He doesn't hate Andre. I'd say he probably loves him the MOST because he was his first born and had lived through the hard times and had his daddy's back and was just always there. And he loves the boy's drive and brain and ambition and ruthlessness to get it done.  Andre is killing himself to please Lucious and Lucious knows it and even wants to give it to him but when Andre was shown to have the same illness that Lucious' mother had, he immediately put distance between them by making every choice Andre made suddenly wrong (his ambition, Rhonda) and everything becoming a test that Lucious set Andre up to always fail because he would never get it right to keep Lucious angry and mad rather than hoping and embracing Andre AND to keep Andre angry at him forcing a volatile push and pull. For Lucious I think he fights the urge to embrace Andre even when he wants to because it's like embracing a live wire ticking time bomb where you'll always be hurt no matter what.

 

His failing is that he can't take the bad with the good or love his son in spite of his illness or even support him because Lucious is still living a child's pain and sense of 'betrayal' by his mother for being sick. AND I'd wager he feels some guilt for Andre because he 'gave' him this illness.

 

It wasn't that he couldn't say that he loves Andre because he doesn't, he couldn't say it because it hurts too much to say it because he'd feel it and he'd feel all that disappointment and pain he had for his mother.  It's not that he doesn't understand or get it or care. He knows all too well.

 

When Lucious Lyon was created and Dwight Walker laid to rest, Lucious intended to leave all that past pain behind and have a new start with Cookie and his boys, but probably the biggest heartache of his youth that he wanted to forget the most was reborn again in his first born child and he was shown the bitter reminder that you can't run from your past, Dwight Walker. Even if you are calling yourself Lucious Lyon.

Edited October 1, 2015 by TobinAlbers

[Neurochick]

I also didn't make the connection that KRow was Luscious' mom. I thought it was Cookie and Andre.

 

 

At first I wasn't sure, but then she called him "Dwight," which is Lucious' real name.  

[Queena]

It was very confusing for me, too. I had already forgotten what Luscious' real name was, and apparently he was biracial as a child.

I'm sure that Terrance Howard has it in his contract that he must always be portrayed as a biracial child. He claims to be biracial, but he's not. Colorism at it's finest.

[Neurochick]

I'm sure that Terrance Howard has it in his contract that he must always be portrayed as a biracial child. He claims to be biracial, but he's not. Colorism at it's finest.

 

My question is still, is Lucious supposed to be biracial or just light skinned?  Why does everybody think Lucious is supposed to be biracial?  Does everybody think that every single light skinned person is biracial?  Interesting.  When I was growing up, in the 1970's, no one thought that.  

 

I've never read that Terrance Howard claims to be biracial.  What I have heard him say is that his father was a lot lighter than his mother, but that's it.  

[Queena]

My question is still, is Lucious supposed to be biracial or just light skinned? Why does everybody think Lucious is supposed to be biracial? Does everybody think that every single light skinned person is biracial? Interesting. When I was growing up, in the 1970's, no one thought that.

I've never read that Terrance Howard claims to be biracial. What I have heard him say is that his father was a lot lighter than his mother, but that's it.

I remember him claiming to be biracial when he first became famous. I assume that he was supposed to be biracial because of the curly hair. Luscious Lyon has kinky hair...when it's short like now. When he wears it longer, I swear that's a conk (Malcolm X style!), TH seems like the type to relax his hair.

This is the first link that I found. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/20/terrence-howard-star-of-the-butler-is-an-actor-with-a-dark-past.html

n early interviews, he recalled being ridiculed for his mixed heritage, which included green eyes and light skin.

[aprilbabe]

I dont think Lucious is biracial. Especially with his disdain for white people. We have now seen that his mom is black and know that the nation of islam killed his dad so I assume hes black too.

[fivestone]

According to the article, both of Terrence's parents were biracial, which makes him biracial too. I don't know exactly what racial makeup Luscious is supposed to have but I don't think there's anything wrong with the kid they picked to play young Luscious.

[politichick]

Can't stop thinking about that flashback we got of young Lucious (Dwight) with his mom where we see that his mom was also mentally ill/bi-polar and it suddenly gave his interaction with Andre a whole new lens.

 

He doesn't hate Andre. I'd say he probably loves him the MOST because he was his first born and had lived through the hard times and had his daddy's back and was just always there. And he loves the boy's drive and brain and ambition and ruthlessness to get it done.  Andre is killing himself to please Lucious and Lucious knows it and even wants to give it to him but when Andre was shown to have the same illness that Lucious' mother had, he immediately put distance between them by making every choice Andre made suddenly wrong (his ambition, Rhonda) and everything becoming a test that Lucious set Andre up to always fail because he would never get it right to keep Lucious angry and mad rather than hoping and embracing Andre AND to keep Andre angry at him forcing a volatile push and pull. For Lucious I think he fights the urge to embrace Andre even when he wants to because it's like embracing a live wire ticking time bomb where you'll always be hurt no matter what.

 

His failing is that he can't take the bad with the good or love his son in spite of his illness or even support him because Lucious is still living a child's pain and sense of 'betrayal' by his mother for being sick. AND I'd wager he feels some guilt for Andre because he 'gave' him this illness.

 

It wasn't that he couldn't say that he loves Andre because he doesn't, he couldn't say it because it hurts too much to say it because he'd feel it and he'd feel all that disappointment and pain he had for his mother.  It's not that he doesn't understand or get it or care. He knows all too well.

 

When Lucious Lyon was created and Dwight Walker laid to rest, Lucious intended to leave all that past pain behind and have a new start with Cookie and his boys, but probably the biggest heartache of his youth that he wanted to forget the most was reborn again in his first born child and he was shown the bitter reminder that you can't run from your past, Dwight Walker. Even if you are calling yourself Lucious Lyon.

Most excellent post. Totally agree.Poor Andre. 

 

As for the more superficial things: I hated Tianna's outfit, too, but as someone else noted it is very Rhianna, and that's how these young chick's roll.

 

I was very proud of Hakeem when after Cookie told him to pick up a broom, he gave no argument, just removed his expensive hoodie so he could get to work. He's got a long, long way to go, but our little boy is starting to grow up.

[thaiturtle]

Tiana is wearing http://www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/fall-2015-ready-to-wear/kanye-west-adidas-originals

[KLovestoShop]

My heart just broke for Andre.  They need to write more scenes for him as he's really bringing it to the front.  He's become such a great actor over the length of this series from last year.  

 

Who's the ADA on the Lucious trial?  Why are her boobs always out?  I'm sorry, but she looks totally unprofessional, and I know many a judge who would kick her out of the courtroom for dressing like a hootchie mama.  

 

But all in all, not a very compelling episode except for Andre's scenes.  

[Dee]

For all the griping about cameos, there were two small moments in these past couple of episodes that serve as a reminder that Empire hasn't lost its touch in getting the smaller, more intimate details right.

 

The first came when Jamal lamented to his Dad that running Empire was taking a toll on his music and creative process, to which Lucious sadly looked at his son and answered him, as one musician to another, with a quietly empathetic, "Yeah."

 

The second came in this episode when Andre, unconsciously, referred to his mother by her first name instead of Mom; a trait which his brothers also resort to when they're frustrated with her, to which she instinctively, and tearfully, recoiled as if she'd just been slapped.

 

And those kind of subtle, character driven moments prove that Empire hasn't lost sight of what made it a success IMO.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Dee

[jazzpno]

Is Lucious supposed to be biracial?  Just because a black person is light skinned, doesn't mean they're biracial, even if one parent is dark.  It happens a lot.

 

Yes, this is true, in fact that isn't uncommon in my own family. My point was that the casting folks didn't seem to look too hard for a child that bore any resemblance to Terrance Howard in any way. I thought the same thing in the flashback last season that featured young Andre.

[wayne67]

For some reason this season isn't holding my attention. I think it's because now that Jamal is becoming Lucious 2.0 I have noone to root for. I just don't like anyone on the show.

[slayer2]

The actor playing Andre, he really sold his desperation to his mother and father. It's heart wrenching to see him to unload his fears and vulnerabilities to each parent and their reactions.

 

He's incredible. It hurts me so much watching them beat down on my baby. :(

 

 

I was very proud of Hakeem when after Cookie told him to pick up a broom, he gave no argument, just removed his expensive hoodie so he could get to work. He's got a long, long way to go, but our little boy is starting to grow up.

 

Word. Happy face!

Edited October 2, 2015 by slayer2

[kieyra]

I am admittedly not a superfan of this show, but I was fairly riveted last week.

But this week, as a couple of others have mentioned, was a snoozer. Some of the musical numbers/lip syncing were giving me Glee at its worst (the prison recording session was cheesetastic), not quite enough Cookie, Lucious in prison is boring and I'm having a harder time separating the character from Terrence Howard's antics, and just lots of other little formulaic missteps. Annika existing only so Cookie can hate on her is getting really dumb. The two actresses have good conflict chemistry, so Annika having to lose every round and lie there in the dust is a wasted opportunity every single time they do it. Evil Jamaal is not compelling. Etc etc.

Not sure what this show had in season 1 is sustainable, which is always a problem when shows like this burn through plot so fast. Still, didn't expect to become bored this fast in season 2.

ETA: sorry, looks like I mangled lots of name spelling.

Edited October 2, 2015 by kieyra

[RCharter]

I am admittedly not a superfan of this show, but I was fairly riveted last week.

But this week, as a couple of others have mentioned, was a snoozer. Some of the musical numbers/lip syncing were giving me Glee at its worst (the prison recording session was cheesetastic), not quite enough Cookie, Lucious in prison is boring and I'm having a harder time separating the character from Terrence Howard's antics, and just lots of other little formulaic missteps. Annika existing only so Cookie can hate on her is getting really dumb. The two actresses have good conflict chemistry, so Annika having to lose every round and lie there in the dust is a wasted opportunity every single time they do it. Evil Jamaal is not compelling. Etc etc.

Not sure what this show had in season 1 is sustainable, which is always a problem when shows like this burn through plot so fast. Still, didn't expect to become bored this fast in season 2.

Well, Lucius is getting out of jail so there is that.  I knew there was no way he was going to stay in very long.  Empire is about the fabulous life and escapist television.  There isn't anything fabulous or escapist about jail.

 

I know Anika should win sometimes, but I hate her because she is such a great villain so its hard for me to get behind her winning much.  

 

However, i think Andre may go scorched earth on everyone and I wonder if Anika will fit into that.  Clearly Andre respects Anika because he continually tried to get her in at the new record company.  Perhaps they work together?  Win something, do something?

 

I watch a lot of MSNBC "Lock Up" and so I felt like the prison recording session was a shout out to the constant American Idol vibe I get from that show.  Maybe that's why I didn't have such a problem with it.  

[tennisgurl]

Andre has always been my favorite brother, but he was just killing me tonight. Even without his mental health issues, he just does not fit in with his family, even if he does want to fit in. The actor just does a great job. He can do calm and collected just as well as he does heart broken, or falling apart at the seams. 

[Fable]

I vacillate between the brothers and who my favorite is...they all seem so layered.  I hated Hakeem at first and loved Jamal and was a little indifferent towards Andre, but now they have each caught my attention, and it varies from episode to episode who I am rooting for.  Kudos to the actors for keeping me compelled!   

[Ms Blue Jay]

I always assumed Terrence Howard is biracial; is it really so insane a guess?.... Some people are; we're just guessing!  Not meant to offend. 

 

Thank you. Admittedly, I was half-watching while working, but I was very confused. I thought they decided to make Kelly Rowland young Cookie and change the young Andre actor. And was like, That kid looks nothing like Andre! (Yes, I'm an idiot.)

 

Hey my interpretation was that Luscious hates Andre because Andre's not his son.  Rather, Cookie had Andre with another man .  That baby was Andre and god knows who Kelly was supposed to be.  Yes.... that was my (drunk) interpretation.   I was like who the fuck is Dwight anyways

 

I love, love, love, love Hakeem.

 

Has anyone else felt like Cookie has been taking a backseat this season?  Last season she was such a *STAR* and stole every single scene.  I never get enough Cookie scenes so far this season.  Last season she was walking around being hilarious, makin' all sorts of cracks, beating people with brooms, grabbing her own ass at conference meetings.  This year it's like what the hell?  I want more Cookie, and Porsche?  My second favourite character... wtf is she???

Edited October 2, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[memememe76]

I thought this week's episode was a significant upgrade from the last. Andre telling Cookie he could not take it is my favourite Andre/Cookie scene ever. I hope to look forward to a truly touching scene between Cookie and Rhonda when Cookie discovers she's going to be a grandmother. 

[GodsBeloved]

I thought that Cookie was outstanding. She had highs and lows with her sons, but she never gave up. I think that she should let it go with Aneeka, but I cannot blame her for not wanting a woman who slept with her ex and son around. I liked Cookie and Hakeem cleaning up their Dynasty at the end. Maybe the hard work will help Hakeem grow up.

My favorite moment of this episode was when Cookie chased after Andre and he basically pleaded with her to let him go. I loved when he called her Cookie and then went back to mom when it seemed to me at least that Cookie was hurt by him calling her Cookie. I loved him asking her to let him go. It was as if he would be miserable and stay for her and needed her permission to leave.

 

Lucious is such a tampon. I really hope Andre makes his way back to his mother.

 

Though I think the guy playing Hakeem is horrible, I'm ok with the character and it did something to me to see Hakeem sticking with Cookie and yes I melt when he calls her mom. I thought it was hilarious when Cookie handed Hakeem the broom considering the last time Cookie, Hakeem and a bloom were in the same room together.

 

I am excited about Cookie and Hakeem making something of their own and I hope Hakeem grows up during the process.

Bubbles!! Any show where I can catch some Andre Royo is alright by me.

Indeed! Bubbles is still a hustler! LOL

Edited October 2, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[GodsBeloved]

Andre needs to have more scenes...NOT just cause he's finer than a mug (I need to give his stylist a hug cause bless him in those TIGHT clothes) but because his character is the most interesting and complex outside of Lucious and Cookie. Plus the man can act. 

 

Yes!! He runs circles around Hakeem and Jamal.

Edited October 2, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[Queena]

I dont think Lucious is biracial. Especially with his disdain for white people. We have now seen that his mom is black and know that the nation of islam killed his dad so I assume hes black too.

The NOI (Nation of Islam) is notorious for it's colorism. Almost every single person in power has VERY light skin. My sisters attended Muhammed University, (NOI school) and my sister who happens to be dark skin felt very confused by it. I'm in the opinion that the NOI is a personality cult. Just because they preach Black nationalism, doesn't mean that they practice it. I have always found the NOI very contradictory, sure they preach one thing, but the history, and attending show a very different story. Lucious' father could very well be a mixed race person in the NOI. Malcolm X even complained about the colorism in the NOI.

I try not to get in the biracial debate, but at what point does one become Black? I know back in the day when "passing" was more common, one who is passing would consider their children with White. I guess it's not the same for Blacks. The words of Paul Mooney come to mind.

Petey Pablo's name is Clyde. I thought Ludacris was Clyde. I was wondering why in the song he was saying Clyde told him to keep his open for jealous people.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Queena

[Milz]

Lucious, probably a bad idea to release a song about how your bitch snitched you out for murdering someone when, you know, you haven't even gone to trial for it yet. Wait until you're acquitted and double jeopardy kicks in, then do your musical autobiography in the vein of OJ's "If I Did It." Granted, I didn't catch all of the lyrics, but it seemed pretty detailed with giving names of possible witnesses and everything ("You tell so-and-so...go and tell so-and so..."). Ms. Boobalicious, Esq., is going to submit that song as Exhibit A. And, really lady? I was going to give her the benefit of the doubt that maybe every single blouse she owned was at the dry cleaners and that's why she only wore a blazer to the prison or was just trying to distract Lucious*, but to show up in court with the girls hiked up on full display? She ALMOST made Thirsty look professional in his purple suit. *Then again, she was given an envelope with the "evidence," too, and didn't seem fazed, so maybe that's how she wins her cases in front of the (dis)Honorable Judge McFreaky.

 

Heh, heh, heh. I agree with you completely.

 

RE: Luscious and his sons.

 

He views  Andre and Jamal as "damaged". But Andre's breakdown (which was his second based on last season) made him more "damaged" than Jamal. And Lucious made that very clear when he didn't even attend the family sessions when Andre was hospitalized.  He totally abandoned Andre when Andre really needed him, just like he emotionally abandoned Jamal when  he couldn't accept Jamal's sexuality.

 

I hope (HOPE) that Andre won't be the same kind of father to his child(ren) than Lucious was to him.

[Grace19]

Hakeem has always been my favourite, from the first episode i knew he would come to accept his mom. I love their dynamic now. Andre is my 2nd favourite, the actor can act circles around the actors playing hakeem and jamal. Thats why i'm not happy the writers dosen't write more for him.

I love this season, but hate that the writers are writing lucious as this unbeatable guy, thereby taking away from cookie's awesomeness, i hope they remedy that.

I've always had a problem with the way they write jamal sometimes. I think it was a mistake bringing michael back, he dose nothing for jamal. I love ryan, atleast he brought something to the table and fit in well at empire. I miss jamal and hakeem together. I want tiana and hakeem back together and cookie in charge again.

[Artsda]

 

I was going to give her the benefit of the doubt that maybe every single blouse she owned was at the dry cleaners and that's why she only wore a blazer to the prison or was just trying to distract Lucious*, but to show up in court with the girls hiked up on full display? She ALMOST made Thirsty look professional in his purple suit. *Then again, she was given an envelope with the "evidence," too, and didn't seem fazed, so maybe that's how she wins her cases in front of the (dis)Honorable Judge McFreaky.

Her attire in court was ridiculous, especially for a high profile celebrity hearing. No realistic way the prosecutor would show up like that to a celeb hearing. She looked like she was more working on the streets than in court.

 

I don't think she was given the envelope too though, she said she hadn't seen this evidence and the judge never handed over the envelope.

[Princess Sparkle]

Her attire in court was ridiculous, especially for a high profile celebrity hearing. No realistic way the prosecutor would show up like that to a celeb hearing. She looked like she was more working on the streets than in court.

 

I don't think she was given the envelope too though, she said she hadn't seen this evidence and the judge never handed over the envelope.

Bubbles gave her an envelope; when she said she hadn't seen the evidence, he passed a separate envelope over to her.  I'm just assuming that hers didn't contain the incriminating photos.  

[healthnut]

Underwhelmed by this episode. If there isn't better plot development and longer scenes, there is no way I can stay engaged. Each episode feels like ADD, quick scene, cut, quick scene, switch., it just doesn't feel focused to me. I may be in the minority, but I used to smart well written shows and this is just a circus to me. Last season was entertaining so I watched but two episodes into this season and I'm already bored. If they are going to start their own label then let's go, instead the next scene it's already falling apart. The Ludacris character was pointless and wasted good screen time for a regular character. Hakeem's scene with the Latina girl was pointless, too. I so want this show to do well but I'm having doubts about it long term.

[Raja]

Underwhelmed by this episode. If there isn't better plot development and longer scenes, there is no way I can stay engaged. Each episode feels like ADD, quick scene, cut, quick scene, switch., it just doesn't feel focused to me. I may be in the minority, but I used to smart well written shows and this is just a circus to me. Last season was entertaining so I watched but two episodes into this season and I'm already bored. If they are going to start their own label then let's go, instead the next scene it's already falling apart. The Ludacris character was pointless and wasted good screen time for a regular character. Hakeem's scene with the Latina girl was pointless, too. I so want this show to do well but I'm having doubts about it long term.

Empire is the current place in a long line of the place to be seen, In my lifetime the first was Miami Vice. I would expect cameos every week.Since Chris Bridges also is an actor and due to fast & Furious is probably more widely known he was a guest star more than and Al Sharpton quick cut. Young prince Hakeem is just showing that as a result of his position he will have a sex partner every week.. Maybe until they find a Beyonce to his potential Jay Z future.

[ShowStopper]

"You're Damn Right" podcast just posted up their new epsidoe. I like how the two hosts don't necessarily agree on everything. Their "Empire" discussion is at the beginning.

http://ashandjohnmultipod.podomatic.com/entry/2015-10-03T11_08_25-07_00

Edited October 3, 2015 by ShowStopper

[Gigi43]

Finally saw the episode. Whelp last week I was pretty annoyed that they didn't mention the Myasthenia, this week I'm more than satisfied. Terrence was very on point in his struggle of fatigue.

Snitch Bitch isn't worse than Drip Drop, but I wouldn't buy it.

The flashback to his childhood didn't do much for me though. I feel like had it not come in a scene with Andre I wouldn't have gotten "mental illness" from his mother. On something, yes, but not bi-polar. Andre was great though. Sorry, Cookie, but Andre was the one besides Luscious to really work at Empire I totally get his feelings that that's where he belongs. Last year they all credited him for getting it to the IPO, he's earned it. Props to Ronda for her little play of Jamal.

I miss Jamal/Hakeem being on Good terms but I'm glad Hakeem didn't go back. He's got to mature though.

Question: Is Tiana gay or am I confusing her with another girl from season one? Or was it that she just got caught doing something with a girl at a party? I seem to remember him going somewhere with "a girlfriend and her girlfriend."

[JBC344]

Tiana is bi-sexual I believe.

[represent]

I think I saw a bit of admiration for his mother in Hakeem's eyes, when he looked back at her sweeping and decided to pick up a broom himself without a fuss.

 

I totally got that the flashback had to be Luscious and his mother, but since I'm very late to the show and missed all of season one, I couldn't figure out how it connected to Andre. I knew somewhere in that flashback had to be the answer to Andre's question as to why he thinks his father hates him, I mean they showed the flashback immediately after he asks the question but...

 

The way the flashback ended with his mother staring into space, I thought she was staring at his "menacing" father. But again, I don't know anything about his father except that he was killed by the NOI so?

 

But now after reading comments I get the mental illness connection and if I think back to his mother's stare, yeah, it could be the stare of a mentally ill person about to have an episode. KR played it well.

 

So basically, he loves his son, but doesn't feel he can truly count on him because of his mental state.

 

I think Luscious loves all his children, but loving and knowing how to show love are two very different things. I agree with the guy on the podcast that Cookie and Luscious are a business man and woman first and parents second.

Edited October 3, 2015 by represent

[Mreid]

I had to watch the flashback scene again with Lucious and Andre I was so confused at first. Now I understand that was Lucious having a flashback of his mom when he was younger. 

[wanderingstar]

Everything goes by so quickly on my first watch, so I didn't realize how much I loved

 

-Cookie's 70s-plaid outfit

-Valentina's audition
-Tyree and his ever-present bowl of cereal
-That lovely/heartbreaking Jamal-Hakeem scene toward the end of the episode
-Cookie saying "Mazel Tov" as she surveyed her new workspace
-Hakeem helping Cookie clean up

 

Also, "Snitch Bitch" is just silly enough for the Empire-verse.

 

Oh show, I missed you so much!

[Eolivet]

I read some tweets about how Terrence Howard's rapping meant Matthew Morrison was no longer the worst rapper on a Fox show. I think Howard has a decent voice, but I'm inclined to agree that either he should not rap or that particular rap was just not good without the backing tracks -- one of the two.

 

I actually liked last week's episode better -- more twists and turns. The show is best with judicious use of music, not when it's trying to be another Glee. I feel like Lucious' rap would've had more impact if we hadn't had Anika's artist, plus girl group auditions, plus Tiana (though she's great), plus Jamal's interview song. In the case of the music, I would prefer more telling, less showing.

[Dee]

I wish Empire would showcase Veronika more. Not only is she gorgeous, but she has a fantastic voice.

[tomatoflyer]

Rainbow sensation was the most hilarious thing I heard on TV all week. That is all.

[RCharter]

Rainbow sensation was the most hilarious thing I heard on TV all week. That is all.

It's actually getting funnier as the week progresses.

 

I think my favorite line of the episode was when Hakeem was like "Imma call 'em Rainbow Sensation.  Boom.  Platinum Album."

[Neurochick]

The NOI (Nation of Islam) is notorious for it's colorism. Almost every single person in power has VERY light skin. My sisters attended Muhammed University, (NOI school) and my sister who happens to be dark skin felt very confused by it. I'm in the opinion that the NOI is a personality cult. Just because they preach Black nationalism, doesn't mean that they practice it. I have always found the NOI very contradictory, sure they preach one thing, but the history, and attending show a very different story. Lucious' father could very well be a mixed race person in the NOI. Malcolm X even complained about the colorism in the NOI.

I try not to get in the biracial debate, but at what point does one become Black? I know back in the day when "passing" was more common, one who is passing would consider their children with White. I guess it's not the same for Blacks. The words of Paul Mooney come to mind.

 

 

I'm focusing on this because it's true.  Just when does a person become black?  Confused.  

[represent]

 

I'm focusing on this because it's true.  Just when does a person become black?  Confused.

Do you mean black or considered too black?

 

Because based on my experience as a black American, Terrance Howard is black, well he's considered biracial, but my cousin who is his complexion isn't biracial,  she's black. She just isn't too black. TP Henson is black, but she isn't too black and certainly the actress playing Anika is almost just right LOL. I have to laugh but colorism is alive and well and always will be.

 

Then you have too black but considered pretty for being too black, meaning your facial features are pretty symmetrical and your nose and lips are petite, like European looking, only draw back is you're way darker than a paper bag, like Lupita Nyongo. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by represent