S02.E02: Without A Country

[Easyspreestep]

Just a bit of a nit pick, but how can Tianna just leave Empire, I would assume she is under contract and if her contract was up Cookie should sign her ASAP.  When Tianna threaten to leave the Lion Dynasty I rolled my eyes.  No wonder Andre wants to leave, you get a artist like Tianna and don't immediately sign her to a deal??? bad business move.  Cookie keeps pretending that she was there for the rise of the Empire, no you were there for the start of the Empire.  Cookie is a horrible business person, starting with believing that Jamal and Luscious won't sue her and Hakeem because they are family.  Hello you are Jamal's mother and tried to take the company from him you have no loyalty but expect no demand them to have some.  

[represent]

 

Cookie keeps pretending that she was there for the rise of the Empire, no you were there for the start of the Empire.

But wasn't half her money used to start it? Isn't that why and rightly so if this is correct, that she's fighting for her piece?

I don't know I wasn't watching from the beginning but I could have sworn I heard that in the previews when the show was starting that it was half her money that got the company off the ground.

 

And, she was the drug dealer? In the flashbacks it didn't look like Luscious was a dealer? Was it just her?

Edited October 5, 2015 by represent

[Dee]

It was $400,000 of her drug money that Lucious invested in starting Empire, and she & Lucious were both drug dealers.

[RCharter]

Just a bit of a nit pick, but how can Tianna just leave Empire, I would assume she is under contract and if her contract was up Cookie should sign her ASAP.  When Tianna threaten to leave the Lion Dynasty I rolled my eyes.  No wonder Andre wants to leave, you get a artist like Tianna and don't immediately sign her to a deal??? bad business move.  Cookie keeps pretending that she was there for the rise of the Empire, no you were there for the start of the Empire.  Cookie is a horrible business person, starting with believing that Jamal and Luscious won't sue her and Hakeem because they are family.  Hello you are Jamal's mother and tried to take the company from him you have no loyalty but expect no demand them to have some.  

Cookie hasn't even set up Dynasty records at this point so she couldn't sign Tianna.  Even if Tianna is under contract there are a number of ways to fight and get out of it depending on the terms of the contract.  And even if she breached the contract, the worst Empire might be able to do would be to bury any work Tianna did with Dynasty, although that would be hard because that would be punishing Dynasty for Tianna's contract breach.  Empire could potentially sue Tianna for lost profits, but how could they prove the profits they lost from an album she did with another record company?  There is probably a liquidated contract amount for breach of contract which they could sue her for, and they would likely win as long as the terms of her contract specified exclusivity or that she had to get other projects approved by Empire.  But Tianna is a small time artist looking to hit it big, what is the likelihood that she even has the amount of money to pay.  And liquidated contract clauses (a specified amount you have to pay if you breach contract) have to represent a reasonable approximation of actual damages.  So, Empire couldn't just have a contract clause that said "if you breach this contract you'll owe us $50,000,000" because thats not even a reasonable estimate of the damages that Empire would suffer if Tianna breaks her contract.  If a court finds a liquidated damages clause to not be a reasonable approximation of actual damages a court can throw it out.

 

As for Cookie insisting that Jamal wouldn't sue -- I actually think that's a very real statement.  If Cookie is setting up a record company, then Jamal would be suing the record company.  A record company that has no assets.  And suing the record company for what exactly?  Tortious interference with a business contract?  Because they stole Tianna away?  Maybe, but that would be hard to prove.  I doubt that any of them signed employment agreements or non-compete agreements -- so what would Jamal sue them for personally?  Not to mention that Lucius does have a soft spot for Cookie, and she for him.  And Jamal isn't nearly as cutthroat as Lucius, he cried after he spoke harshly to Cookie, and wanted to give Hakeem his album back.

[wanderingstar]

But wasn't half her money used to start it? Isn't that why and rightly so if this is correct, that she's fighting for her piece?

 

I think Cookie's also trying to make up for lost time - not just personally re the time she missed with her sons, but also professionally.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[wayne67]

Just a bit of a nit pick, but how can Tianna just leave Empire, I would assume she is under contract and if her contract was up Cookie should sign her ASAP.  When Tianna threaten to leave the Lion Dynasty I rolled my eyes.  No wonder Andre wants to leave, you get a artist like Tianna and don't immediately sign her to a deal??? bad business move.  Cookie keeps pretending that she was there for the rise of the Empire, no you were there for the start of the Empire.  Cookie is a horrible business person, starting with believing that Jamal and Luscious won't sue her and Hakeem because they are family.  Hello you are Jamal's mother and tried to take the company from him you have no loyalty but expect no demand them to have some.  

 

I'd imagine they could buy out Tianna's contract but it would take some time.

 

As for Cookie she has an overinflated sense of importance. Managing one artist 20 years ago does not mean you can compete in the very cut throat world of business now.

 

But wasn't half her money used to start it? Isn't that why and rightly so if this is correct, that she's fighting for her piece?

I don't know I wasn't watching from the beginning but I could have sworn I heard that in the previews when the show was starting that it was half her money that got the company off the ground.

 

And, she was the drug dealer? In the flashbacks it didn't look like Luscious was a dealer? Was it just her?

 

Considering it was illegally obtained money she doesn't really have a legal leg to stand on. Also at the very start of the show she used that as a bargaining chip to get herself a very big salary based on very little experience including a contract that basically meant she could never bring it up again.

 

She's already been paid back for her initial investment and had an opportunity to have a high paying salary indefinitely as long as she didn't rock the boat. That wasn't enough and she tried to organise a hostile take over to depose one son as head of company so that she could use the youngest son as a puppet to run the company herself.

 

As for Cookie insisting that Jamal wouldn't sue -- I actually think that's a very real statement.  If Cookie is setting up a record company, then Jamal would be suing the record company.  A record company that has no assets.  And suing the record company for what exactly?  Tortious interference with a business contract?  Because they stole Tianna away?  Maybe, but that would be hard to prove.  I doubt that any of them signed employment agreements or non-compete agreements -- so what would Jamal sue them for personally?  Not to mention that Lucius does have a soft spot for Cookie, and she for him.  And Jamal isn't nearly as cutthroat as Lucius, he cried after he spoke harshly to Cookie, and wanted to give Hakeem his album back.

 

While I agree that Tiana's contract could be bought out at a fairly low price or litigated away, I highly doubt Lucious would have allowed his mud slinging ex wife of the first episode to sign anything less than the most legally binding of agreements to make sure she kept her mouth shut and her claws out of his company. That would have included Non disclosure agreements, Non compete clauses and anything else his very high priced lawyers would have added. Knowing Cookie she probably didn't even read the small print. Cookie was allowed into the upper echelons of the company, there is no way Lucious wouldn't have gotten her to sign something with teeth.

 

Of course most of that could be avoided by having Hakeem be the face of the company... Except that Hakeem as favored son of Lucious at the time would have also been signed up to a non disclosure and quite likely an exclusivity deal.

 

So this fledgeling business would have to buy/ rent property in the city, hire some really expensive lawyers to fight any potential suits from Empire and get distribution rights/ agreements with any new talent they hire since they probably can't afford to hire or buy out any of the talent out of the Empire label as they're living on the money from . Hakeem as acting CEO of Empire would have a few grounds to sue his family members, they probably accessed sensitive information so they could show Very Rich Lesbian (I don't know her name) why it'd be worth spending millions on to get controlling share of the company so they would be on the hook for exposing the company secrets to an unknown third party. They'd also be liable for illegally distributing Hakeem's song which was probably expensively recorded by Empire Records so at that point he wouldn't have distribution rights so unless he just sang it on his own and released that he'd probably be on the hook for stealing company property.

 

I don't think Jamal could sue the company for anything successfully because the new business technically hasn't done anything wrong by hiring a previously employed artist but Jamal or Lucious could still blacklist the company with every distribution network in the city. It wouldn't stop them from becoming a new indie label but Empire could definitely bury Cookie and Jamal in paperwork they wouldn't understand for years.

 

Not that I believe the show will mention or go into any of those details because SNORE... but it's not like Cookie or Jamal can't be sued personally. Jamal wouldn't even need to be involved, he would just have to give the word to Empire's legal department and they'd bury Cookie in boring paper.

Edited October 6, 2015 by wayne67

[Queena]

Do you mean black or considered too black?

Because based on my experience as a black American, Terrance Howard is black, well he's considered biracial, but my cousin who is his complexion isn't biracial, she's black. She just isn't too black. TP Henson is black, but she isn't too black and certainly the actress playing Anika is almost just right LOL. I have to laugh but colorism is alive and well and always will be.

Then you have too black but considered pretty for being too black, meaning your facial features are pretty symmetrical and your nose and lips are petite, like European looking, only draw back is you're way darker than a paper bag, like Lupita Nyongo.

This! Colorism is alive and well, and it makes me sad. Tiana/Serayah is also biracial, 1/4 White. Her grandmother is White.

I'm also biracial, my g g grandma was biracial...I'm joking, but they aren't.

TH's grandma was on The Cosby Show, that's something that I just learned.

[RCharter]

I'd imagine they could buy out Tianna's contract but it would take some time.

 

As for Cookie she has an overinflated sense of importance. Managing one artist 20 years ago does not mean you can compete in the very cut throat world of business now.

 

 

Considering it was illegally obtained money she doesn't really have a legal leg to stand on. Also at the very start of the show she used that as a bargaining chip to get herself a very big salary based on very little experience including a contract that basically meant she could never bring it up again.

 

She's already been paid back for her initial investment and had an opportunity to have a high paying salary indefinitely as long as she didn't rock the boat. That wasn't enough and she tried to organise a hostile take over to depose one son as head of company so that she could use the youngest son as a puppet to run the company herself.

 

 

While I agree that Tiana's contract could be bought out at a fairly low price or litigated away, I highly doubt Lucious would have allowed his mud slinging ex wife of the first episode to sign anything less than the most legally binding of agreements to make sure she kept her mouth shut and her claws out of his company. That would have included Non disclosure agreements, Non compete clauses and anything else his very high priced lawyers would have added. Knowing Cookie she probably didn't even read the small print. Cookie was allowed into the upper echelons of the company, there is no way Lucious wouldn't have gotten her to sign something with teeth.

 

Of course most of that could be avoided by having Hakeem be the face of the company... Except that Hakeem as favored son of Lucious at the time would have also been signed up to a non disclosure and quite likely an exclusivity deal.

 

So this fledgeling business would have to buy/ rent property in the city, hire some really expensive lawyers to fight any potential suits from Empire and get distribution rights/ agreements with any new talent they hire since they probably can't afford to hire or buy out any of the talent out of the Empire label as they're living on the money from . Hakeem as acting CEO of Empire would have a few grounds to sue his family members, they probably accessed sensitive information so they could show Very Rich Lesbian (I don't know her name) why it'd be worth spending millions on to get controlling share of the company so they would be on the hook for exposing the company secrets to an unknown third party. They'd also be liable for illegally distributing Hakeem's song which was probably expensively recorded by Empire Records so at that point he wouldn't have distribution rights so unless he just sang it on his own and released that he'd probably be on the hook for stealing company property.

 

I don't think Jamal could sue the company for anything successfully because the new business technically hasn't done anything wrong by hiring a previously employed artist but Jamal or Lucious could still blacklist the company with every distribution network in the city. It wouldn't stop them from becoming a new indie label but Empire could definitely bury Cookie and Jamal in paperwork they wouldn't understand for years.

 

Not that I believe the show will mention or go into any of those details because SNORE... but it's not like Cookie or Jamal can't be sued personally. Jamal wouldn't even need to be involved, he would just have to give the word to Empire's legal department and they'd bury Cookie in boring paper.

 

I don't see why Dynasty would buy out Tianna's contract at all -- Tianna has the contract with Empire.  Dynasty has no contract with Empire.  If Tianna wants to take the risk and work with Dynasty and risk getting sued that really would be her decision.  Most artists wouldn't make that decision but Dynasty wouldn't be on the hook for Tianna's contract since they have no contract with Empire.  

 

I disagree about Lucius having Cookie sign anything.  I think that Empire has grown into a billion dollar concern, but at its heart its a family business.  I don't see Lucius trying to force Cookie to sign anything, but just putting her on the payroll.  Lucius isn't going to run his Empire the way Andre would.  Andre would force Cookie to sign contracts.  But Andre would have also raised capital from investors and had a cohesive business plan before starting.  Thats not Lucius's way. Lucius always imagined that Cookie was loyal to Empire and a personality like his wouldn't be able to see that Cookie would assert her independence by starting a new label.  

 

But -- I think the biggest problem for Empire, even if they had a contract is the remedy or the relief.  Every time you sue someone you have to ask the court to do something.  For breach of contract, what are you going to ask the court to do?  Courts are never going to force specific performance on a personal services contract.  So than you are stuck with asking the court for an injunction (to keep an artist from recording with another label or an employee from working for another company) but courts are hesitant keep a person from working because they breached a contract if that breach of contract makes sense for them or is efficient.  So then are you going to ask the court for monetary damages?  Thats cool, but courts can't award monetary damages that are speculative or uncertain.  Lost profits from an unreleased album are both speculative and uncertain.  But maybe you ask the court to award the amount in a liquidated damages provision (a set amount written into the contract in the event a party breaches).  Thats fine, but liquidated damages can't be punitive, they have to reflect at least a reasonable estimate of how much you would lose if the contract were breached.  Any amount that isn't a reasonable estimate is deemed punitive and the court throws it out.

 

So, if Empire sues Tianna for breach of contract, what are they asking for?   That she not be allowed to record with Dynasty?  Maybe they get that, but courts are hesitant to lay down an injunction when a person would essentially not be working or making any money.  If the breach makes financial sense for the person the court isn't going to keep them from working.  So then is it a liquidated damages provision in her contract.  Maybe, but is that a reasonable estimate of how much Empire would lose in profits in Tianna jumped ship or is it punitive.  If its punitive a court won't uphold it and Empire is stuck suing for actual damages.  Which would be very small and almost not worth suing over.

 

If Empire sues Cookie/Hakeem, what are they asking for?  An injunction to keep Cookie from starting her own label?  Fine, Cookie is no longer "working" for Dynasty.  They can't sue her for profits they may lose because those are speculative at best.  Cookie can still talk to her son Hakeem.  Or she can talk to Porsha, who she could easily put as the head of Dynasty on paper.  She can still talk to her friend, courts can't stop that, nor would they want to.  Hakeem is the same thing.  And non-competes have to have a time limit and a geographic limit or else the court will throw them out.  They have to be reasonable in time and scope.  Blanket non-compete clauses are generally not upheld.

 

Empire would need to prove that Hakeem even leaked that album.  Beyond that they would need to prove damages.  Even in seeking a default judgment damages have to be proven separate of the actual case in default.  Hakeem leaked his album, but it still belongs to Empire so Empire would still get the profits from Hakeem's leaked album.  Any radio station that plays it would have to pay Empire for the play.  Anyone who legally downloaded it would have to pay Empire for the rights.  So, how do you prove damages when Empire is still getting paid?  If you can prove Hakeem leaked it you may be able to sue him for breach of contract and a liquidated amount.  But I think a court would be less likely to uphold a liquidated damages provision since it wouldn't really closely mirror the amount of revenue lost since Empire would still be getting revenue from the album.  A liquidated damages amount would assume no profits made from the album.  So, its a very tricky situation.

 

As far as Cookie not having a legal leg to stand on because it was illegally obtained money.  Thats very true, however, if the funds were illegally obtained that means the government legally owns Empire.  So, Cookie can go scorched earth if she can show the initial investment for Empire came from illegal drug money and Lucius knew it was illegal drug money.  So, she still has the bargaining chip to hold over Lucius's head.

 

Dynasty would be a separate entity.  It would likely be organized as an LLC to avoid liability on the part of the company for the actions of Cookie/Hakeem.  The company has no contracts with Empire at all.  The company would sign all contracts with future artists.  The company wouldn't have any liability.  Empire could sue Cookie and Hakeem as individuals if they even had signed agreements with non-compete clauses.  Even if the individuals were sued by Empire they could simply ignore the lawsuits and allow them to go to default.  Good luck to Empire getting any of the money from either party, since they would basically be getting back Empire's money at the end of the day.  And very little of it at that since most of their money would likely have gone to the LLC and would be nearly impossible to get back since the LLC is an entirely separate legal entity.  The company itself however could still sign artists.  Cookie and Hakeem would be personally sued for breach of contract.  Dynasty -- the company -- would not. 

 

They could try to blacklist Dynasty -- but people love an underdog.  And the story of big bad Empire trying to kill off the tiny David Dynasty will more than likely make people sympathetic to the cause.  Especially if Dynasty manages to sign artists like Tianna and Vi.  And those are two artists that may have had contracts with Empire.  Any new acts Dynasty signs would all be fine for them to move forward with.  Does Empire really have the pull, in this age of a label being able to release anything online to really keep Dynasty's music from getting out there?  I don't think so.  If this had been....oh 20 years ago before the internet was such a force and music had the ability to "go viral" than maybe.  But in a world where most people get their music online, and you can create a buzz online you can't just control major radio stations and kill an album or an artist or a label.

Edited October 6, 2015 by RCharter

[JenE4]

I don't think contracts matter in this world. Remember when Empire and Creedmoor were stealing artists from each other? All it took was a verbal "yeah, I'll come to your label" and that was that. It seems like these record companies own the music but contracts with the artists are meaningless. Although they did mention one person's (I forget who) contract with Creedmoor ending so it was time to swoop in. But at the same time, they had a whole leaderboard of artists coming and going so I don't know how that was possible. Bottom line: Contracts will matter only if they want it to matter in the plot, otherwise, shhhhh, shush, nothing to see here....

[wayne67]

I don't see why Dynasty would buy out Tianna's contract at all -- Tianna has the contract with Empire.  Dynasty has no contract with Empire.  If Tianna wants to take the risk and work with Dynasty and risk getting sued that really would be her decision.  Most artists wouldn't make that decision but Dynasty wouldn't be on the hook for Tianna's contract since they have no contract with Empire.  And her contract would likely have a liquidated damages amount for breach since damages are hard to prove.  But then the question becomes, does that liquidated amount reflect a realistic estimate of what Empire would lose if Tianna jumped ship and recorded with Dynasty?  If not, the liquidated damages provision is thrown out and the only amount that Empire collects is actual damages which must be proven with a degree of certainty. This is why it would most likely be settled out of court -- because its near impossible to prove that the liquidated damages clause is reasonable, and its hard to prove lost profits once that clause is thrown out.  But that would be on Tianna's shoulders, not Dynasty.

 

I disagree about Lucius having Cookie sign anything.  I think that Empire has grown into a billion dollar concern, but at its heart its a family business.  I don't see Lucius trying to force Cookie to sign anything, but just putting her on the payroll.  Lucius isn't going to run his Empire the way Andre would.  Andre would force Cookie to sign contracts.  Thats not Lucius's way. Lucius always imagined that Cookie was loyal to Empire and a personality like his wouldn't be able to see that Cookie would assert her independence by starting a new label.  When she started, Lucius likely assumed he was simply doing her a favor and that she wouldn't have as much success as she does with artists.  Or, he was trying to get out of giving her her piece of the pie by giving her a job.  And by the time she did he probably didn't care that she hadn't signed a contract.

 

As far as Cookie not having a legal leg to stand on because it was illegally obtained money.  Thats very true, however, if the funds were illegally obtained that means the government legally owns Empire.  So, Cookie can go scorched earth if she can show the initial investment for Empire came from illegal drug money and Lucius knew it was illegal drug money.  So, she still has the bargaining chip to hold over Lucius's head.

 

Lucius is just as, if not more arrogant than Cookie.  The idea that she would start her own label likely never even crossed his mind so I don't see him forcing her to sign anything.

 

Actually, Hakeem seems more likely to have been the one to have to sign a standard contract with Empire which may have included language that prevented him recording on another label.  But that would be more of an artists contract that would include an exclusivity agreement and non-compete for the recording work he did.  So Hakeem couldn't record with another label for a while, but could he manage other artists and start his own company?  It's likely the contract for a recording artist would only foresee that artist potentially recording with another label, not signing artists under their own.  There may even be legal issues in trying to control the ability of an artist to start their own label to sign and record other artists.  

 

A court would be unlikely to uphold a provision of a contract that prevented a party from doing something that isn't the subject of the contract.  If your contract is to record an album, but the contract includes provisions that prevent a party from doing something that isn't really connected to recording their album its less likely the court is going to uphold that provision of the contract.  

 

This fledgling business would be a separate entity.  It would likely be organized as an LLC to avoid liability on the part of the company for the actions of Cookie/Hakeem.  The company has no contracts with Empire at all.  The company would sign all contracts with future artists.  The company wouldn't have any liability.  Empire could sue Cookie and Hakeem as individuals if they even had signed agreements with non-compete clauses.  I doubt Cookie had one, and I think if Hakeem had one it was as an artist.  Either way, even if the individuals were sued by Empire they could simply ignore the lawsuits and allow them to go to default.  Good luck to Empire getting any of the money from either party, since they would basically be getting back Empire's money at the end of the day.  And very little of it at that since most of their money would likely have gone to the LLC and would be nearly impossible to get back since the LLC is an entirely separate legal entity.  The company itself however could still sign artists.  Cookie and Hakeem would be personally sued for breach of contract.  Dynasty -- the company -- would not.  

 

Empire would need to prove that Hakeem even leaked that album.  Beyond that they would need to prove damages.  Even in seeking a default judgment damages have to be proven separate of the actual case in default.  Hakeem leaked his album, but it still belongs to Empire so Empire would still get the profits from Hakeem's leaked album.  Any radio station that plays it would have to pay Empire for the play.  Anyone who legally downloaded it would have to pay Empire for the rights.  So, how do you prove damages when Empire is still getting paid?  If you can prove Hakeem leaked it you may be able to sue him for breach of contract and a liquidated amount.  But I think a court would be less likely to uphold a liquidated damages provision since it wouldn't really closely mirror the amount of revenue lost since Empire would still be getting revenue from the album.  A liquidated damages amount would assume no profits made from the album.  So, its a very tricky situation.

 

They could try to blacklist Dynasty -- but people love an underdog.  And the story of big bad Empire trying to kill off the tiny David Dynasty will more than likely make people sympathetic to the cause.  Especially if Dynasty manages to sign artists like Tianna and Vi.  And those are two artists that may have had contracts with Empire.  Any new acts Dynasty signs would all be fine for them to move forward with.  Does Empire really have the pull, in this age of a label being able to release anything online to really keep Dynasty's music from getting out there?  I don't think so.  If this had been....oh 20 years ago before the internet was such a force and music had the ability to "go viral" than maybe.  But in a world where most people get their music online, and you can create a buzz online you can't just control major radio stations and kill an album or an artist or a label.

 

I'm aware that Dynasty has no backstory with Empire... YET.

 

My point was that Cookie signed a contract in her very first episode of this show. Minute 40:42 with Lucious in a board room with 4 lawyers and presumably a legal clerk/assistant telling Cookie where to sign. Where she doesn't even LOOK at the contracts before signing. Presumably she'd have to sign even more paperwork when she got a promotion/new job as a manager for Empire artists, so that she couldn't take any Empire talent unless their contracts had expired or been terminated by the record company.

 

Lucious the man who expects betrayal around every turn would totally get his ex wife to sign a contract stopping her from running away from his sphere of influence.

 

As for whether Lucious has the pull to kill Dynasty... well they kept making a big deal about how he knows the POTUS so I'm going to say he has enough power to at least slow down the release of any more of Hakeem's Empire owned stuff.

 

As for whether Jamal can prove it, Hakeem already told him that he did and Hakeem is probably dumb enough to have done it from his own laptop so it's not going to take a lot of effort to verify.

 

Admittedly Dynasty can release music via online sources but do Cookie or Hakeem seem like the sort of people that could create a website that could monetise downloads of music. Anyway Hakeem leaked his music. We have no idea if he did so on Empire's website so we have no idea whether Empire will get any money back from the money invested in producing that song in the first place so Empire may have some ground for damages.

 

As for whether they'd win, that's highly debatable but Empire has billions of dollars to fight a war and Dynasty has ? money from Cookie's and Hakeem's time in Empire's employ. I'd doubt they'd last long in a legal arena against high priced lawyers.

 

I'd imagine that for Tianna it'd be easier to pay whatever the cost is to break the contract and have her new label pick up the cost so Dynasty would have to pay otherwise why the hell would Tianna leave Empire which has established networks for an organisation out in nowhere with no monetised distribution networks?

[RCharter]

I'm aware that Dynasty has no backstory with Empire... YET.

 

My point was that Cookie signed a contract in her very first episode of this show. Minute 40:42 with Lucious in a board room with 4 lawyers and presumably a legal clerk/assistant telling Cookie where to sign. Where she doesn't even LOOK at the contracts before signing. Presumably she'd have to sign even more paperwork when she got a promotion/new job as a manager for Empire artists, so that she couldn't take any Empire talent unless their contracts had expired or been terminated by the record company.

 

Lucious the man who expects betrayal around every turn would totally get his ex wife to sign a contract stopping her from running away from his sphere of influence.

 

As for whether Lucious has the pull to kill Dynasty... well they kept making a big deal about how he knows the POTUS so I'm going to say he has enough power to at least slow down the release of any more of Hakeem's Empire owned stuff.

 

As for whether Jamal can prove it, Hakeem already told him that he did and Hakeem is probably dumb enough to have done it from his own laptop so it's not going to take a lot of effort to verify.

 

Admittedly Dynasty can release music via online sources but do Cookie or Hakeem seem like the sort of people that could create a website that could monetise downloads of music. Anyway Hakeem leaked his music. We have no idea if he did so on Empire's website so we have no idea whether Empire will get any money back from the money invested in producing that song in the first place so Empire may have some ground for damages.

 

As for whether they'd win, that's highly debatable but Empire has billions of dollars to fight a war and Dynasty has ? money from Cookie's and Hakeem's time in Empire's employ. I'd doubt they'd last long in a legal arena against high priced lawyers.

 

I'd imagine that for Tianna it'd be easier to pay whatever the cost is to break the contract and have her new label pick up the cost so Dynasty would have to pay otherwise why the hell would Tianna leave Empire which has established networks for an organisation out in nowhere with no monetised distribution networks?

I don't remember that from the first episode.  however, the fact remains, what relief does Empire seek from the courts for the breach of contract?  

 

Do they put an injunction on Cookie from working for Dynasty?  Okay -- there are a million and one ways around that.  Including putting a figurehead at the company that Cookie can control and being a shadow dictator.  Can they sue Cookie for damages?  Good luck trying to prove damages.  Can they sue Cookie for liquidated damages?  Thats another good luck scenario since you would have to show that the liquidated damages were a reasonable effort to approximate actual damages.  So, at best they maybe get an injunction on the non-compete clause, which Cookie can easily get around.

 

Jamal can't prove that Hakeem told him anything, and Hakeem has a bevy of people running with him all the time.  All he has to do is say that someone took his laptop and released the album.  He wouldn't even have to pick out a particular person, since he would simply say he left his laptop out and someone got to it.  If pressed I'm sure any one of his low level crew would take the rap for him.  And good luck enforcing a judgment against any of those people.

 

Actually both Cookie and Hakeem come off as the sort that could use online sources to make money off of their music.  And they don't even need to build the website per se.  All they need to do is use the internet and other sources to create the buzz.  Radio stations aren't going to keep from playing an album that is getting tons of attention online and in the media because Lucius Lyon says not to.  Not when they are competing with online stations and online sources for listeners.  Both Cookie and Hakeem know how to use the media and online sources to create a buzz.  And all you need is the Lyon name to create a media buzz and interest.  So, I don't think Lucius will necessarily be able to black ball them, because any project they do will create a buzz and interest.

 

For the release of Hakeem's album online the damages would be speculative at best.  Because even if Hakeem released the album any legal use of the music would be paid for, and the money would go to Empire.  Damages have to be proven with certainty.  How can you prove how much you lost in revenue if you're making money back from the project?  Damages would already be speculative, but now that you're actually getting money from the album damages are even more speculative.

 

Empire is now held, in large part, by someone else.  Its no longer Lucius's personal pet.  If billionaire, who doesn't really have a dog in this fight says to drop it, its going to be dropped.  And there is not much logic in fighting lawsuits you don't have much chance of winning against a small record label.  If anything all you'll do is get bad press from the entire thing.  And even if Empire were to wage that war, both Hakeem and Cookie could simply ignore the lawsuits and let them go to default.  And even to get a default judgement Empire would have to prove damages with a degree of certainty.  Even with a default judgment you can't get speculative damages.  But even if they did, good luck to Empire trying to enforce a judgment, as the money would likely be well hidden by the time they came sniffing around for it.  And if either invested their money in Dynasty there is no way Empire gets the money from Dynasty to satisfy a personal judgment against Hakeem/Cookie.

 

Tianna has the contract with Empire, Dynasty does not.  Dynasty doesn't have to pay a thing for Empire's contract with Tianna.  It has nothing to do with them.  Tianna may look at the risk/reward scenario and realize that she will never be top shelf at Empire, but she may be able to have that position with Dynasty.  It may be worth the risk especially given the fact that Empire's suit against her would isn't a slam dunk because of how difficult it would be to prove damages.  Empire may be able to get an injunction against Tianna because of her contract, but I don't see how they could get an injunction against Dynasty to release an album of Tianna's because Dynasty wasn't a party to the contract.  And then what is the remedy for someone who breaks an injunction?  Ignoring a court order is never a good look, but really, how much trouble is she going to get into with the court for doing that?  Likely next to nothing.

 

And even if Empire were able to get an injunction against Dynasty to prevent the release of Tianna's album they could still leak it and claim they have no idea who did it.  

 

Tianna feels a deep sense of loyalty to Cookie, and it doesn't seem like her career is going anywhere with Empire.  Tianna wants to be a star, and from what I remember her career wasn't going much of anywhere until Cookie took over.  She sees Cookie as the only one that can guide her career to the places she wants it to go and so she will go wherever Cookie is.  Being signed to a big label but not getting any attention or press doesn't do anything for an artist.  If they aren't using the established networks to help your career it likely doesn't much matter.

Edited October 7, 2015 by RCharter

[wayne67]

I don't remember that from the first episode.  however, the fact remains, what relief does Empire seek from the courts for the breach of contract?  

 

Do they put an injunction on Cookie from working for Dynasty?  Okay -- there are a million and one ways around that.  Including putting a figurehead at the company that Cookie can control and being a shadow dictator.  Can they sue Cookie for damages?  Good luck trying to prove damages.  Can they sue Cookie for liquidated damages?  Thats another good luck scenario since you would have to show that the liquidated damages were a reasonable effort to approximate actual damages.  So, at best they maybe get an injunction on the non-compete clause, which Cookie can easily get around.

 

Jamal can't prove that Hakeem told him anything, and Hakeem has a bevy of people running with him all the time.  All he has to do is say that someone took his laptop and released the album.  He wouldn't even have to pick out a particular person, since he would simply say he left his laptop out and someone got to it.  If pressed I'm sure any one of his low level crew would take the rap for him.  And good luck enforcing a judgment against any of those people.

 

Actually both Cookie and Hakeem come off as the sort that could use online sources to make money off of their music.  And they don't even need to build the website per se.  All they need to do is use the internet and other sources to create the buzz.  Radio stations aren't going to keep from playing an album that is getting tons of attention online and in the media because Lucius Lyon says not to.  Not when they are competing with online stations and online sources for listeners.  Both Cookie and Hakeem know how to use the media and online sources to create a buzz.  And all you need is the Lyon name to create a media buzz and interest.  So, I don't think Lucius will necessarily be able to black ball them, because any project they do will create a buzz and interest.

 

For the release of Hakeem's album online the damages would be speculative at best.  Because even if Hakeem released the album any legal use of the music would be paid for, and the money would go to Empire.  Damages have to be proven with certainty.  How can you prove how much you lost in revenue if you're making money back from the project?  Damages would already be speculative, but now that you're actually getting money from the album damages are even more speculative.

 

Empire is now held, in large part, by someone else.  Its no longer Lucius's personal pet.  If billionaire, who doesn't really have a dog in this fight says to drop it, its going to be dropped.  And there is not much logic in fighting lawsuits you don't have much chance of winning against a small record label.  If anything all you'll do is get bad press from the entire thing.  And even if Empire were to wage that war, both Hakeem and Cookie could simply ignore the lawsuits and let them go to default.  And even to get a default judgement Empire would have to prove damages with a degree of certainty.  Even with a default judgment you can't get speculative damages.  But even if they did, good luck to Empire trying to enforce a judgment, as the money would likely be well hidden by the time they came sniffing around for it.  And if either invested their money in Dynasty there is no way Empire gets the money from Dynasty to satisfy a personal judgment against Hakeem/Cookie.

 

Tianna has the contract with Empire, Dynasty does not.  Dynasty doesn't have to pay a thing for Empire's contract with Tianna.  It has nothing to do with them.  Tianna may look at the risk/reward scenario and realize that she will never be top shelf at Empire, but she may be able to have that position with Dynasty.  It may be worth the risk especially given the fact that Empire's suit against her would isn't a slam dunk because of how difficult it would be to prove damages.  Empire may be able to get an injunction against Tianna because of her contract, but I don't see how they could get an injunction against Dynasty to release an album of Tianna's because Dynasty wasn't a party to the contract.  And then what is the remedy for someone who breaks an injunction?  Ignoring a court order is never a good look, but really, how much trouble is she going to get into with the court for doing that?  Likely next to nothing.

 

And even if Empire were able to get an injunction against Dynasty to prevent the release of Tianna's album they could still leak it and claim they have no idea who did it.  

 

Tianna feels a deep sense of loyalty to Cookie, and it doesn't seem like her career is going anywhere with Empire.  Tianna wants to be a star, and from what I remember her career wasn't going much of anywhere until Cookie took over.  She sees Cookie as the only one that can guide her career to the places she wants it to go and so she will go wherever Cookie is.  Being signed to a big label but not getting any attention or press doesn't do anything for an artist.  If they aren't using the established networks to help your career it likely doesn't much matter.

 

You're assuming that Empire would use litigation to get payment, when Empire if it was actually a multimillion dollar company would be using litigation as a stalling tactic and as punishment. If they pursue Tianna in court, it will provide an example of what happens to artists that try and abandon Empire for greener pastures. Their legal team could bog down Tianna, Hakeem and Cookie in personal litigation for weeks or months, reducing their ability to produce and distribute music until the matter is resolved. As for how they'd enforce it, well there's cease and desist orders on the distribution of music, personal liens, fines and so forth. They could appeal or they could try and ignore it but I'd imagine that Empire could just go to the court and continue litigation indefinitely.

 

For example in the real world record executives use A & R reps to have bands sign a letter of intent that has no end date that locks band into a limbo until a record contract is signed. For all we know Tianna is locked into a 5 record deal and an exclusivity contract.

 

http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17

 

Dynasty is under no obligation to help Tianna with the costs of breaking the contract but I can't imagine that it'd help them if she was broke because of their failed power play. As for the billionaire, she may not care about Tianna either way but if she wants to keep Empire profitable and Lucious happy then she wouldn't mind shelling out a few hundred thou to bury anyone who might try and take away her newly acquired company and the assets (artists) that entails.'

 

ETA: Didn't Hakeem ditch his posse when they tried to mug his brother for his watch ? I don't think he rolls with anyone these days, hence why he was helping his mom sweep the floor.

Edited October 7, 2015 by wayne67

[RCharter]

You're assuming that Empire would use litigation to get payment, when Empire if it was actually a multimillion dollar company would be using litigation as a stalling tactic and as punishment. If they pursue Tianna in court, it will provide an example of what happens to artists that try and abandon Empire for greener pastures. Their legal team could bog down Tianna, Hakeem and Cookie in personal litigation for weeks or months, reducing their ability to produce and distribute music until the matter is resolved. As for how they'd enforce it, well there's cease and desist orders on the distribution of music, personal liens, fines and so forth. They could appeal or they could try and ignore it but I'd imagine that Empire could just go to the court and continue litigation indefinitely.

 

For example in the real world record executives use A & R reps to have bands sign a letter of intent that has no end date that locks band into a limbo until a record contract is signed. For all we know Tianna is locked into a 5 record deal and an exclusivity contract.

 

http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17

 

Dynasty is under no obligation to help Tianna with the costs of breaking the contract but I can't imagine that it'd help them if she was broke because of their failed power play. As for the billionaire, she may not care about Tianna either way but if she wants to keep Empire profitable and Lucious happy then she wouldn't mind shelling out a few hundred thou to bury anyone who might try and take away her newly acquired company and the assets (artists) that entails.

 

And you're assuming that Cookie/Hakeem would actually fight any lawsuit.  The smartest move for them would be to simply ignore it and let Empire put in a bunch of work to prove figures they can't prove.  Empire would always have to prove the figures to some degree of certainty.

 

They can pursue Tianna in court and if she ignores it thats fine too.  Good luck getting money out of her even if you get a default judgment.  And to get default judgment you still have to prove lost profits.  

 

Empire could bog down Cookie/Hakeem/Tianna -- if any of them chose to pay attention and fight any of those lawsuits.  As for Dynasty, as a separate legal entity its not really responsible for the obligations of any of those three people.  There is a good case for Dynasty being able to work with Tianna because they have no relationship with Empire and no contract with Empire.  So, there is really nothing Empire would have against Dynasty, as a separate legal entity.

 

Many of those contracts cannot be successfully upheld.  This is why most of the time they are settled out of court.  A court would take one look at something with no end date that keeps a person from working and pursuing a career and they would throw that out.  I scanned the article you provided and it has no example of any of these letters being litigated in court when a band went to another record label.  

 

Tianna can be locked into a 5 year exclusive contract.  She can break it.  Now what?  What do you sue Tianna for?  You get an injunction to keep her from recording with Dynasty?  Allright, fine, good times.  She does it anyways.  Now you get an injunction to keep Dynasty from releasing the album.  Perhaps, although Dynasty didn't break a contract with Empire so is a court going to punish Tianna for ignoring a court order, or Dynasty?  A court order would keep Tianna from recording with Dynasty, it wouldn't keep Dynasty from recording with her.  And even if Empire got a C&D against Dynasty, they simply covertly release the album and create buzz for Tianna.  Most artists make their money from touring, not from album sales.  And if they simply had an injunction against her recording music with Dynasty, does that really cover live performances?  Perhaps it keeps her from performing music that belongs to Empire, but if its not written with Empire but by artists at Dynasty, that music doesn't even belong to Empire anymore, so how can they keep her from performing music live that belongs to another record label?  You can try getting money from Tianna -- but how can you prove with any degree of certainty how much you've lost in profits?  You really can't.

 

The billionaire is going to be able to take a hard line look at this situation and realize that it likely doesn't make much sense to fight over Tianna when she wasn't bringing much to Empire's bottom line as it is.  Keeping Lucius happy makes sense, but where else is Lucius going to go?  She certainly isn't going go want to give more attention and sympathy to a competitor that is small and just stole an artist she doesn't care about.  Or maybe she has Lucius sensibilities and wants to fight every small battle.  But she should realize that even if she were to fight this battle its uncertain that it would result in a win for her, but it would certainly result in bad press.  Bad press can do more to hurt a company than spending a few hundred thousand dollars on a lawsuit you likely won't be able to enforce for an artist that doesn't mean much to your label.  

Edited October 7, 2015 by RCharter

[wayne67]

And you're assuming that Cookie/Hakeem would actually fight any lawsuit.  The smartest move for them would be to simply ignore it and let Empire put in a bunch of work to prove figures they can't prove.  Empire would always have to prove the figures to some degree of certainty.

 

They can pursue Tianna in court and if she ignores it thats fine too.  Good luck getting money out of her even if you get a default judgment.  And to get default judgment you still have to prove lost profits.  

 

Empire could bog down Cookie/Hakeem/Tianna -- if any of them chose to pay attention and fight any of those lawsuits.  As for Dynasty, as a separate legal entity its not really responsible for the obligations of any of those three people.  There is a good case for Dynasty being able to work with Tianna because they have no relationship with Empire and no contract with Empire.  So, there is really nothing Empire would have against Dynasty, as a separate legal entity.

 

Many of those contracts cannot be successfully upheld.  This is why most of the time they are settled out of court.  A court would take one look at something with no end date that keeps a person from working and pursuing a career and they would throw that out.  I scanned the article you provided and it has no example of any of these letters being litigated in court when a band went to another record label.  

 

Tianna can be locked into a 5 year exclusive contract.  She can break it.  Now what?  What do you sue Tianna for?  You get an injunction to keep her from recording with Dynasty?  Allright, fine, good times.  She does it anyways.  Now you get an injunction to keep Dynasty from releasing the album.  Perhaps, although Dynasty didn't break a contract with Empire so is a court going to punish Tianna for ignoring a court order, or Dynasty?  A court order would keep Tianna from recording with Dynasty, it wouldn't keep Dynasty from recording with her.  And even if Empire got a C&D against Dynasty, they simply covertly release the album and create buzz for Tianna.  Most artists make their money from touring, not from album sales.  And if they simply had an injunction against her recording music with Dynasty, does that really cover live performances?  Perhaps it keeps her from performing music that belongs to Empire, but if its not written with Empire but by artists at Dynasty, that music doesn't even belong to Empire anymore, so how can they keep her from performing music live that belongs to another record label?  You can try getting money from Tianna -- but how can you prove with any degree of certainty how much you've lost in profits?  You really can't.

 

The billionaire is going to be able to take a hard line look at this situation and realize that it likely doesn't make much sense to fight over Tianna when she wasn't bringing much to Empire's bottom line as it is.  Keeping Lucius happy makes sense, but where else is Lucius going to go?  She certainly isn't going go want to give more attention and sympathy to a competitor that is small and just stole an artist she doesn't care about.  Or maybe she has Lucius sensibilities and wants to fight every small battle.  But she should realize that even if she were to fight this battle its uncertain that it would result in a win for her, but it would certainly result in bad press.  Bad press can do more to hurt a company than spending a few hundred thousand dollars on a lawsuit you likely won't be able to enforce for an artist that doesn't mean much to your label.  

 

I'll try and be concise since this is getting way off topic but

 

A) if they refuse to show up, default judgements are probably going to go against them and they'd still end up owing money to Empire. By not showing up they're more likely to lose the fight.

 

B) Tianna could owe Empire money for promotion costs, recording costs, distribution costs and other sundry costs that would have been taken out of any future earnings and since she's theoretically a low to mid range Empire talent, there's no indication that she could pay for that out of pocket.

 

C) If Hakeem and Cookies are sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars and have a default judgement against them for not showing up how exactly are they going to bankroll Dynasty ?

 

D) You're assuming that the contract terms are unreasonable. If it's only a one year non compete agreement, it's unlikely to be struck down by a judge for being unreasonable. Especially if none of the Dynasty Crew shows up to contest it for being unreasonable in the first place.

 

E) You're assuming the woman who spent 200 million dollars on a controlling share of a company is going to be worried about a few hundred thousand dollars of litigation costs. We've seen no indication that this woman cares about bottom lines. Why would litigating against traitorous family members and a bailing artist be considered bad press. It would sell the image that Lucious is a stone cold operator in the minds of the public.

[RCharter]

I'll try and be concise since this is getting way off topic but

 

A) if they refuse to show up, default judgements are probably going to go against them and they'd still end up owing money to Empire. By not showing up they're more likely to lose the fight.

 

B) Tianna could owe Empire money for promotion costs, recording costs, distribution costs and other sundry costs that would have been taken out of any future earnings and since she's theoretically a low to mid range Empire talent, there's no indication that she could pay for that out of pocket.

 

C) If Hakeem and Cookies are sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars and have a default judgement against them for not showing up how exactly are they going to bankroll Dynasty ?

 

D) You're assuming that the contract terms are unreasonable. If it's only a one year non compete agreement, it's unlikely to be struck down by a judge for being unreasonable. Especially if none of the Dynasty Crew shows up to contest it for being unreasonable in the first place.

 

E) You're assuming the woman who spent 200 million dollars on a controlling share of a company is going to be worried about a few hundred thousand dollars of litigation costs. We've seen no indication that this woman cares about bottom lines. Why would litigating against traitorous family members and a bailing artist be considered bad press. It would sell the image that Lucious is a stone cold operator in the minds of the public.

A) By not showing up they would likely lose the fight, but that's not even a slam dunk.  Even with a default, a party must prove damages with a degree of certainty.  Since damages would be hard to prove they still may not get the default judgement.  You cannot get a default judgment without proving damages.  And even if they did, the question would be of enforcement.  Courts no longer garnish wages and I doubt any of them have many assets in their name.  And even if they did its pretty easy to move them before the court can attach them.  

 

B) So then Empire is spending hundreds of thousands to sue for maybe tens of thousands?  There is nothing to suggest that Empire has put a ton of money into promoting Tianna, and most of what they did in terms of promotion was done with Hakeem.  Does she even have an album that they are promoting? Maybe they do it on principal alone, but again, there is a question of enforcement and actually collecting on the judgment.  A judgment is good for about seven years and the court won't allow you to take all of a persons money.  If I were Tianna, the first thing I would do is declare bankruptcy.  Those judgments can be dismissed in bankruptcy court.  And so now you're free of the judgment and you can go on about your business since the court has already litigated the breach of contract.

 

C) They put the money into Dynasty before final judgment.  

 

D) You're assuming the contract terms aren't unreasonable.  However, even if the court were to uphold a non-compete all Cookie has to do is put someone else on paper as the head of Dynasty and have friendly conversations until the year is up.  A pretty easy work around.  In fact, she could probably put her money into another LLC that takes ownership in Dynasty.  The judge has to consider the merits of the case even if the parties don't show up.  It can take the assertions of one party as true, but there is nothing to stop a judge from actually looking at a contract and determining that its provisions are unreasonable.  Especially if there is already case law on the subject.

 

E)  I'm assuming that most billionaires got to where they were by making logical decisions or being taught by someone who taught them to make logical decisions.  And everything I've seen tells me that Mimi is logical.  She adores Cookie, but in the end she sided with Lucius.  Why?  Because she likes him better?  Not really, but because she realized that Empire was better with Lucius as a figurehead.  And probably, in no small part, because he can't really ever leave.  In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Mimi doesn't secretly hope that Lucius gets convicted so she has a martyr figurehead in jail and she can run the company.  A big company litigating against a small company over something the big company doesn't care about is almost always going to look bad.  Especially when you're talking about a music company that is suing a small artist that they barely care about over a repressive contract.  Tianna giving interviews about how she is a struggling artist and Empire never even worked with her to release an album and now they want to destroy her because she is just trying to make her dreams happen?  That is not a good look for Empire. And Empire can't afford any more bad press right now with its figurehead out on bond on a murder charge.  A stone cold operator picking on a poor defenseless girl with a dream?  That is not a good look.  Suing poor family members is also not a good look, especially when they can simply spin the hostile takeover as something they did so that they could save the company as you were heading to jail.  

Edited October 7, 2015 by RCharter

[Queena]

I don't remember that from the first episode. however, the fact remains, what relief does Empire seek from the courts for the breach of contract?

Do they put an injunction on Cookie from working for Dynasty? Okay -- there are a million and one ways around that. Including putting a figurehead at the company that Cookie can control and being a shadow dictator. Can they sue Cookie for damages? Good luck trying to prove damages. Can they sue Cookie for liquidated damages? Thats another good luck scenario since you would have to show that the liquidated damages were a reasonable effort to approximate actual damages. So, at best they maybe get an injunction on the non-compete clause, which Cookie can easily get around.

Jamal can't prove that Hakeem told him anything, and Hakeem has a bevy of people running with him all the time. All he has to do is say that someone took his laptop and released the album. He wouldn't even have to pick out a particular person, since he would simply say he left his laptop out and someone got to it. If pressed I'm sure any one of his low level crew would take the rap for him. And good luck enforcing a judgment against any of those people.

Actually both Cookie and Hakeem come off as the sort that could use online sources to make money off of their music. And they don't even need to build the website per se. All they need to do is use the internet and other sources to create the buzz. Radio stations aren't going to keep from playing an album that is getting tons of attention online and in the media because Lucius Lyon says not to. Not when they are competing with online stations and online sources for listeners. Both Cookie and Hakeem know how to use the media and online sources to create a buzz. And all you need is the Lyon name to create a media buzz and interest. So, I don't think Lucius will necessarily be able to black ball them, because any project they do will create a buzz and interest.

For the release of Hakeem's album online the damages would be speculative at best. Because even if Hakeem released the album any legal use of the music would be paid for, and the money would go to Empire. Damages have to be proven with certainty. How can you prove how much you lost in revenue if you're making money back from the project? Damages would already be speculative, but now that you're actually getting money from the album damages are even more speculative.

Empire is now held, in large part, by someone else. Its no longer Lucius's personal pet. If billionaire, who doesn't really have a dog in this fight says to drop it, its going to be dropped. And there is not much logic in fighting lawsuits you don't have much chance of winning against a small record label. If anything all you'll do is get bad press from the entire thing. And even if Empire were to wage that war, both Hakeem and Cookie could simply ignore the lawsuits and let them go to default. And even to get a default judgement Empire would have to prove damages with a degree of certainty. Even with a default judgment you can't get speculative damages. But even if they did, good luck to Empire trying to enforce a judgment, as the money would likely be well hidden by the time they came sniffing around for it. And if either invested their money in Dynasty there is no way Empire gets the money from Dynasty to satisfy a personal judgment against Hakeem/Cookie.

Tianna has the contract with Empire, Dynasty does not. Dynasty doesn't have to pay a thing for Empire's contract with Tianna. It has nothing to do with them. Tianna may look at the risk/reward scenario and realize that she will never be top shelf at Empire, but she may be able to have that position with Dynasty. It may be worth the risk especially given the fact that Empire's suit against her would isn't a slam dunk because of how difficult it would be to prove damages. Empire may be able to get an injunction against Tianna because of her contract, but I don't see how they could get an injunction against Dynasty to release an album of Tianna's because Dynasty wasn't a party to the contract. And then what is the remedy for someone who breaks an injunction? Ignoring a court order is never a good look, but really, how much trouble is she going to get into with the court for doing that? Likely next to nothing.

And even if Empire were able to get an injunction against Dynasty to prevent the release of Tianna's album they could still leak it and claim they have no idea who did it.

Tianna feels a deep sense of loyalty to Cookie, and it doesn't seem like her career is going anywhere with Empire. Tianna wants to be a star, and from what I remember her career wasn't going much of anywhere until Cookie took over. She sees Cookie as the only one that can guide her career to the places she wants it to go and so she will go wherever Cookie is. Being signed to a big label but not getting any attention or press doesn't do anything for an artist. If they aren't using the established networks to help your career it likely doesn't much matter.

Damn, I'm amazed at all of the thought put into this TV show.

[RCharter]

Damn, I'm amazed at all of the thought put into this TV show.

LOL -- I like to think through legal problems, helps keep my mind somewhat sharp.  

[Queena]

LOL -- I like to think through legal problems, helps keep my mind somewhat sharp.

How To Get Away with Murder needs you!

[RCharter]

How To Get Away with Murder needs you!

LOL -- I think I made it up until the first day of class and it was so unrealistic I just couldn't go any further.  But its on NF now so maybe I'll give it another whirl!

[Guest]

I laughed at all the prison amenities last ep, when Lucious got his recording studio, and then used it, I was rolling.  And man, I hate the music.  I feel like some interns crank these songs out in two hours.  Drip Drop.  Snitch Bitch.  What's next... Cat Hat?  

 

I love how when someone starts a new company on tv the first thing they do is rent a giant warehouse (even though apparently you can record radio-ready music in a prison broom closet in an hour) and pick a grand company name. 

[One Tough Cookie]

{Waving to everyone from the shallow pool}   I know Terrance Howard has a terrible reputation as an abuser of women,  but DAMN, he's a fine looking man.

[aradia22]

I hope they're going somewhere with Thirsty. Ludacris was pretty good as the correctional officer.

 

God, Hakeem is dumb. He's so dumb.

 

So this is Becky G. OK, cool, I guess.

 

I feel like the Cookie/Andre scene didn't play well. Like it was written on set and the actors had 10 minutes to go over it before shooting the scene. The scene with Andre and Lucious went a little better. But now mental illness runs in the family? What? How has this not come up for... however many years Andre has been alive?