NFL Thread

[Fukui San]

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

It was not an incomplete pass according to the rules.

The WR was no longer "going to the ground" as defined by rules.  He had the ball, two feet or a knee down, and made a move upfield ( toward the goal line), AND a move to avoid a defending player.  Once he does either one of those, let alone both, he is no longer "going to the ground" and the rest of the maintaining control does not apply. 

That should be the correct interpretation of how the rule is written and why any sane football fan who knows this is a catch can argue its a catch within the rules.  He was beyond going to the ground when he lost the ball.  This was not him falling as he was catching it.  He was voluntarily and purposely diving for the end zone to get a TD, after catching the ball, not involuntarily falling as he was making the catch. 

The rest would not have mattered if the correct call was made on the play.  Same for "it happens to all teams".  Two games this year specifically of overturned calls for the patriots on controversial TDs right now mean the difference between a 3rd seed in the playoffs and the first seed, which is huge.  That type of argument of "there was still time" and "it happens to all teams" is just a sorry excuse for the NFL, depending and how you look at it, either having a stupid rule on what is/is not a catch or having bad refs that don't know how to interpret the rule. 

The NFL has been consistently calling it this way since at least 2010 when the famous Calvin Johnson No Catch happened. The later Dez Bryant No Catch is pretty much identical to this one, and the "I was stretching for the goal line" argument did nothing for him either. It's happened many times in less high profile situations as well. So maybe coach your receivers to the rule as it has been called until they actually change the rule. It's happened before. It'll happen again. Stop acting surprised. Receive the ball and make like a goddamn turtle because first and goal at the 1 is great. If a receiver tries to stretch to the goal line or first down marker on a bang bang play in practice, make him run laps because he's inviting the refs to make this call, which is counterintuitive but consistently called.

According to an article I read a while back, the rule is this way because A) telling the refs to use their best judgment is not an option. They need a rule with clear markers they can point to and not "I know it when I see it". B) to lessen the standard of what is a catch in that instance would create a lot of catch/fumbles that are now incomplete passes. Receiver gets the ball, turns, gets clocked and the ball comes loose. Currently that's in incomplete pass but would become catches and fumbles. If you don't have the standard of completing the catch to the ground, what is the standard? If it's the instant a receiver has two hands on the ball and two feet down, then you create dozens of extra fumbles over the course of the year on those bang bang plays. There is no perfect solution. There may be a less bad solution, but not a perfect one.

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The WR was no longer "going to the ground" as defined by rules.  He had the ball, two feet or a knee down, and made a move upfield ( toward the goal line), AND a move to avoid a defending player.  Once he does either one of those, let alone both, he is no longer "going to the ground" and the rest of the maintaining control does not apply. 

Here's the rule:

Quote

Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

[xaxat]

Gene looked so pleased with himself after he pulled out that card to measure the first down.

[Bastet]

Goddammit, Carr!

[Jx223]

I thought we had some really good games today. The Steelers/Patriots game was really good. I wish that the Steelers would have pulled out the win. That was a tough loss for them. I hope that Antonio Brown heals up well.

I was also glad that Carolina played a good game today. I'm glad they won and think they could make a nice run in the playoffs. And I'm glad that Jimmy G continues to play well for the 49ers. He looks poised and the team and organization seems energized by him. 

And the Cowboys/Raiders game was another nail biter. I am glad that the Cowboys pulled out that win.  They barely did but they did. I had thought their season was over when their rookie corner made that big mistake with PI on Crabtree. But Jeff Heath saved their season for another week. Hopefully, they will play better next week when Zeke comes back.

We also got some more playoff results today.  The Jaguars have clinched a playoff spot and the Eagles have earned a first round bye. The Vikings won their division. And the Patriots have won their division again. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Jx223

[Moose135]

Another wild finish in the Dallas/Oakland game.  And because it can't be said enough:

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

And fuck Dallas too.

[twoods]

Wow, I walked away at 4th and 10 and had no idea that the Raiders could have won. This team continues to break their fans' hearts, whether it is by tuck rules, untimely penalties, or unfortunate turnovers. 

[FuriousStyles]

It was interesting hearing Al recall all the crazy plays and calls that involved the Raiders over the years.  I wish they had had enough time to dig up the footage of each one to show the audience.  That "folded paper" thing the ref did to see if Dallas had the 1st down was wild.  And the smirk on his face afterward was hilarious.  I wonder is THAT is in the rulebook. 

2 unfortunate ends to some great games with playoff implications.  Moral of the story:  Hold on to the ball at all costs....and live to fight another down.

[merylinkid]

Even though Dallas won, I hate that fricking touchback rule.    It penalizes teams trying their hardest to get into the end zone.   Which is the whole point of the game.   

 

Query, do the Panthers minority share owners have to sell too?   I would be  PISSED if I had to get up ownership of a sports teams because the majority owner did something so incredibly stupid he had to sell the team.

[DrSpaceman73]

10 hours ago, MarkHB said:

Here's the rule:

That is not the whole rule that you placed there.  That is only the part about going to the ground. 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/completing-a-catch/

 

This is what is above that part :

A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

A. secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

B. touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

C. maintains control of the ball after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, until he has the ball long enough to clearly become a runner. A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps (see 3-2-7-Item 2).

 

IF they complete A, B and C, they are not considered going to the ground.  They are a runner

 

I don't understand how refs and the officials can read the last paragraph and not consider what the Steelers player did enough for it to be considered complete.  He caught the ball, feet down, turned upfield toward the goal line with the ball and made a move to avoid contact with a defender who was near him. 

I know they keep repeating "It was just like Dez,'s catch, incomplete", but tell me then what "turning upfield" or "capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent" means and how the Steelers player did not do either of those things on this play

Edited December 18, 2017 by DrSpaceman73

[topanga]

13 hours ago, mojoween said:

Tony Dungy said during halftime, and I may be paraphrasing here, that the refs interpreted the rule correctly and simultaneously it’s a shit-ass rule.

Great post. I would friggin love to hear Tony Dungy say, “shit-ass rule,” even if he said it off-camera, but his microphone was still hot. And then it would be replayed over and over with Tony Dungy getting bleeped. Priceless.  

[MarkHB]

3 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I know they keep repeating "It was just like Dez,'s catch, incomplete", but tell me then what "turning upfield" or "capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent" means and how the Steelers player did not do either of those things on this play

I think being on your feet is probably considered a prerequisite for clearly becoming a "runner".  Everything he did was either writhing in midair or while on his knees; that's why I didn't quote the entire rule, because I saw nothing in that replay that wasn't all in the act of falling to the ground.

[basiltherat]

Poor Derek Carr -- bit in the butt by the touchback rule.  And a game decided by a ref's shopping list.

The Steelers/Pats game was so exciting.  I hate both teams with a passion but I decided for that day to root for the Pats, because I think the Bs are a bunch of Ds.  Terrible Towels are useful as cry rags as well.  And although I hate the Gronk, that catch was positively balletic!

[xaxat]

10 minutes ago, basiltherat said:

Terrible Towels are useful as cry rags as well. 

Fun Fact: All of the profits on Terrible Towels go to a school for people with severe mental and developmental handicaps.

[Silver Raven]

Sean Combs wants to buy the Panthers, and he said he would seriously consider hiring Colin Kaepernick.

What was the deal with the index card at the Raider game?  I missed that.

[xaxat]

22 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

Sean Combs wants to buy the Panthers, and he said he would seriously consider hiring Colin Kaepernick.

Sean Combs is trying to win the media cycle by saying shit that bears no resemblance to reality. He knows he doesn't have that kind of billionaire money. And it worked! Talking heads would much rather joke about Diddy than the fact that the current owner is misogynistic and racist.  

[Mountainair]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

Sean Combs wants to buy the Panthers, and he said he would seriously consider hiring Colin Kaepernick.

What was the deal with the index card at the Raider game?  I missed that.

The day that happens is the day I officially have to find a new team to pull for and my small amount of team paraphernalia goes in the basement. I hate Sean Combs and while I have nothing against Kap. Cam Newton brings enough media attention to the team as it is. 

Speaking of, there is a great sound bite of him from yesterday’s game telling Clay Matthews to “watch this” right before he threw to McCaffery for a TD! Also, they are trying to suspend Thomas Davis for two games due to the illegal hit he made which I get because it’s the rule but you could tell he felt awful about the hit right after it happened and he’s such a nice guy  on and off the field! 

[DrSpaceman73]

4 hours ago, MarkHB said:

I think being on your feet is probably considered a prerequisite for clearly becoming a "runner".  Everything he did was either writhing in midair or while on his knees; that's why I didn't quote the entire rule, because I saw nothing in that replay that wasn't all in the act of falling to the ground.

You can think that if you want, but the rule does not specify that as a fact. 

[merylinkid]

Diddy will never be able to buy the team.   Like you said, he doesn't have billionaire kind of money.    NFL Rules prohibits teams from having more than a certain percentage of debt.   So you have to have a chunk of cash on hand to buy a team.   Most celebrity owners are paper rich, not cash rich.   They don't have the liquid assets to buy a team.   It will be another old white guy.

 

But it would be delicious if racist Jerry Richardson had to sell to Diddy and Kaep (I heard he wanted ownership, not to run the team).    Just too perfect.

[Calvada]

Glad to see the league taking hits to the head seriously by suspending Thomas Davis 2 games for his illegal hit on the Packers' Davante Adams.  For those that cannot tell, that is sarcasm.  They only gave him 2 games so they can reduce it to 1 (or none) after his appeal.  If the league really took it seriously, they would eject players from the game for a hit like that.  I don't blame Adams for his angry tweet (although I wonder if an upset family member has access to his Twitter account) since this is the second time he's been injured on an illegal hit to the head this season, which has resulted in the defensive player being suspended.  Davis can say all he wants that he didn't intend to injure Adams, but just what the hell did he think would happen when he hit Adams, blindside, in the head?    

[mojoween]

So torn...usually when two teams play who I am ambivalent about I root for the home team.  But it’s important for Atlanta to win because the NFC South needs to get three teams in, because that means Dallas doesn’t.  But Chucky is getting honored at halftime and how fun is that if your team is getting their ass kicked?

I guess I’ll just root for a good, competitive game.

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

I guess I’ll just root for a good, competitive game.

Root for multiple groin pulls?

From the Charlotte Observer:

Panthers owner Jerry Richardson stepping aside, effective immediately

Carolina Panthers owner Jerry Richardson will step down immediately, turning over his role to long-time employee Tina Becker.  Becker, in her 20th year with the team, will take full control of the day-to-day management of the Panthers as chief operating officer.

The announcement came shortly after NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed that the league would continue its investigation into Richardson, following allegations of sexual and racial misconduct in the workplace.  There were questions swirling after Richardson’s bombshell announcement Sunday night that he intends to sell the team after the season. Richardson’s focus will turn to that sale with Becker in control.

[mojoween]

As a 44 year old, I'm a little offended with Chucky talking about the 41 year old Matt Bryant as if he’s one missed kick from relocating to the home.

[Popples]

14 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

From the Charlotte Observer:

Panthers owner Jerry Richardson stepping aside, effective immediately

God, it must be really bad if he's just getting the hell out of dodge now instead of the end of the season, which is in seven weeks.

[Jx223]

I was hoping that the Bucs would win tonight and help the Cowboys playoff chances. They put up a good fight but couldn't pull out the win. A Falcons loss would have also helped out Detroit and Seattle. The Falcons own the tiebreaker over these teams. Them winning tonight helps keep them in the driver's seat. It has also eliminated the Packers from the playoffs.

The Falcons last two games are against the Saints and Panthers and it's possible that they might lose both games. This happening and the other three teams trying to win out could help one of them get that last spot. Next week will be do or die for these teams. They need to try and win their games. Though if the Falcons win again they could be eliminated from playoff contention.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Jx223

[DrSpaceman73]

Possible buyers for the Panthers mentioned have been :

Bruton Smith, and his son, owner of the Charlotte Motor SPeedway.  He is just as much of an old stubborn ass as Jerry Richardson, and Bruton is 90 years old, so basically making a bad situation worse

And

Eddie DeBartolo, former 49ers owner convicted of offering a bribe, sexual assault of a cocktail waitress and, though he denies it, was forced to turn over control of the 49ers to his sister in the late 90s. 

Yes, a fine group of people stepping up so far. 

[Jx223]

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Possible buyers for the Panthers mentioned have been :

Bruton Smith, and his son, owner of the Charlotte Motor SPeedway.  He is just as much of an old stubborn ass as Jerry Richardson, and Bruton is 90 years old, so basically making a bad situation worse

And

Eddie DeBartolo, former 49ers owner convicted of offering a bribe, sexual assault of a cocktail waitress and, though he denies it, was forced to turn over control of the 49ers to his sister in the late 90s. 

Yes, a fine group of people stepping up so far. 

Lol. Well, at least Bruton Smith would probably keep the team in Charlotte. Hopefully, he doesn't also have a history of sexual harrassment/assault.

Maybe somebody decent will end up stepping forward, buy the team and keep it in Charlotte.

[xaxat]

I doubt the Panthers move regardless of the new ownership. Buying a team requires a lot of money. Financing a stadium in a new city (no owner would move to existing facilities) would cost a lot of money. Doing both at the same time. . . ?

[DrSpaceman73]

It doesn't seem that P Diddy/Puff daddy/sean combs, whatever he is called now, would likely have the money, even if buying within a group, to buy the team. 

Estimated value is 2.5 billion and the primary owner has to obtain at least 30% ownership, that's $750 million you need upfront, minimum, to be a buyer, on top of operating expenses for the team.  His total net worth seemed to be right around that number, all of that obviously is not liquid assets. 

[Popples]

Seahawks fined $100,000 for not following concussion protocol.

[AimingforYoko]

2 hours ago, Popples said:

Seahawks fined $100,000 for not following concussion protocol.

Paul Allen: "I believe I have that on me."

[mojoween]

I am currently going through the five stages of grieving because my dad was killed in a motor vehicle accident yesterday by a careless driver, so seeing that Dick Enberg passed away this morning is especially tough, because he was one of the first football voices I knew when I first started watching football 30 years ago with my dad.

I swear Dick was just working recently, wasn’t he?

[merylinkid]

7 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I am currently going through the five stages of grieving because my dad was killed in a motor vehicle accident yesterday by a careless driver, so seeing that Dick Enberg passed away this morning is especially tough, because he was one of the first football voices I knew when I first started watching football 30 years ago with my dad.

I swear Dick was just working recently, wasn’t he?

I am so very sorry for your loss Mojoween.

[MargeGunderson]

@mojoween, sympathy to you and you family. 

[Haleth]

I'm very sorry, Mojo.  My condolences to you and your family.

[Crs97]

Mojo, I am so sorry for your loss.  Waking up to the news about Dick Enberg immediately made me think of my dad, who has been gone almost twenty years now.  Sending hugs.

[Popples]

@mojoween, my deepest sympathy and condolences to you and your family.

[twoods]

@mojoween, my condolences to you and your family. 

[scriggle]

My sincerest condolences to you and your family, @mojoween.

[mojoween]

Thank you so much everyone!  I wasn’t trying to bring the thread down at all!  

Dick Enberg was in a lot of Halls of Fame apparently and every one was deserving.  Oh my.

[ebk57]

OMG, @mojoween, I'm so very sorry.  My sincerest condolences to you and your family.

[merylinkid]

I just found out Dick Enberg was from the small town one town over from the little small town I grew up in Michigan.    He was grown up and gone by the time I came along but there is still the connection.   I was sad before this part made me cry.

[Jx223]

Mojoween, I am very sorry to hear about you and your family's loss.

[Ohwell]

@mojoween, I am so sorry.  

[galaxygirl76]

I'm so sorry for your loss @mojoween

[kathyk24]

I'm sorry Mojoween. It's tough to lose a loved one but it's worse during the holidays.

[caracas1914]

Mojoween, sorry for your loss.

[24k Kate]

I'm so sorry for your loss, Mojoween.

Edited December 23, 2017 by 24k Kate

[Magog]

I'm very sorry for your loss, Mojoween. 

[TobinAlbers]

So sorry for your loss @mojoween. My sincerest condolences.