NFL Thread

[morriss]

Mahomes concussion should be magically gone by now, so the NFL's fairytale storyline can continue-   Brady and Belichick divorce, it doesn't faze Brady,...  the wily vet leads his new team to a showdown against the new sheriff in town Mahomes....blah blah blah.

[Carey]

7 hours ago, mojoween said:

In other news, woooooooowww. I truly thought Phillip Rivers had another year in him.  You’re next, Ben!

Barring a return or change of mind, the 2021 NFL Season will start, and when people wonder why Philip Rivers isn't there, they'll end up looking up info on whether an announcement of his retirement was ever made.

I don't think Ben's going to retire anymore, unless the Steelers actually pull the trigger and cut him, or force him to call it quits.  Not that he's a lock to make the HOF in his first year of eligibility, but If Roethlisberger were to quit now it would be more difficult.

For a second I thought Rivers would come close to Favre's record (either falling short or passing it).  Then I believe he needed to play until 2025 to guarantee the top spot.  However, it became apparent to me that it was pretty much the end for Rivers.  When you factor in the fact that his now latest team is in a division that just got better & still has Tennessee it'll be tough to make it through.  Then add the AFC North, which, while it'll take a step back, will stay the course if/when Cincinnati starts to rise, then there you go.  Also, the AFC East with Buffalo & Josh Allen.  Still can't count out Belichick and New England.  Finally you have Mahomes & Herbert...bottom line is that the AFC is stacked.  That's just one conference, half the league!  The NFC has Aaron Donald, Aaron Rodgers, and TB12; that's it, but that may be enough.

At the end of the day, Phillip had one more year left, maybe two.  Given the odds of winning, it's probably better to quit a year early than a year late

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Why would Houston trade Deshaun Watson?

Is there some reason why they would have to trade him?

It will depend on how serious Houston feels that Deshaun doesn't want to play there.  If he's threatening not to play, then they might as well see what value they can get by trading him.

[merylinkid]

DeShaun is done in Houston.   He has made that clear.   He was mad when they traded Hopkins in the offseason.   Now they were looking for a new coach and GM, the owner said he would be involved.   He suggested the team interview Eric Bienemy (I know I misspelled that one).  Interview mind you not hire, just interview the man.   They didn't even contact him and hired the guy that Jack Easterby the former chaplain preferred.   At that point, Watson was DONE.   DONE.   If the owner is going to ignore the search firm that was hired and his QBs suggestion, to keep Easterby happy, Watson wants no further part of that dumpster fire.

Hopefully there is a new day in the NFL and the owners start remembering its about football, not anything else.

[mojoween]

Phillip Rivers second with 240 straight starts makes me want to put salt in Ben McAdoo’s coffee.

[AimingforYoko]

6 hours ago, mojoween said:

Phillip Rivers second with 240 straight starts makes me want to put salt in Ben McAdoo’s coffee.

Best description I've heard about Ben McAdoo (or anyone, really), "He's a pair of sweatpants away from looking like a P.E. teacher at a New England prep school."

Edited January 21, 2021 by AimingforYoko

[Popples]

This is not Deshaun Watson. 😡

 

[AimingforYoko]

It looks like the future is assured in the Steel City!

[Irlandesa]

Ted Thompson, the Packers GM from 2005-2017 whose first draft pick was Aaron Rodgers, passed away yesterday at 68. 

I freakin' loved Ted Thompson. He was kind of weird, an introvert, a scout at heart.  I don't think I ever saw him in a suit.  He seemed super boring which made the times he'd let down his guard and show his sense of humor even more fun. I was reminded of one of my favorite exchanges of his.

Thompson (to reporter): Did I answer your question?
Reporter: Somewhat.
Thompson:  Good.  Those the kind of answers I like to give.

[Calvada]

The only time I can recall Ted in a suit was when the Packers visited the White House in 2011 following their Super Bowl victory.  Andrew Brandt, who was the finance guy with the Packers at the time they drafted Rodgers, recounted in some column a few years back the experience of waiting to see if Rodgers would fall to the Pack at pick #24, and then Ted making them wait the full 15 minutes they were on the clock in case some other team called with an offer to move up.  (No team did - how many have regretted that?)  Ted was perfectly calm, Rodgers was the best player on his board, so he was the pick.  Brandt said at the first minicamp after the draft, Rodgers lofted a perfect pass about 60 yards down the field, hitting a receiver in stride.  Brandt looked at Ted, and he said Ted gave him the most expressive look he would ever give him, sort of saying yeah, I think I made the right call.  Ted was really good at assessing talent.  He had his misses, they all do, but he had a lot more hits than misses.  

[twoods]

Bummer about Rivers. I thought he would have at least two more children before he retired. Kidding aside, I never really liked him but he always gave his all and wanted to win so I ended up rooting for the Chargers the last few years. Colts have to now look for another franchise quarterback. Deshawn maybe?

[mojoween]

There is a lot going on with the world this week, and Dan Campbell is WAY too much to handle right now.

Edited January 22, 2021 by mojoween

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, twoods said:

Bummer about Rivers. I thought he would have at least two more children before he retired. Kidding aside, I never really liked him but he always gave his all and wanted to win so I ended up rooting for the Chargers the last few years. Colts have to now look for another franchise quarterback. Deshawn maybe?

Or Dak?

[merylinkid]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

There is a lot going on with the world this week, and Dan Campbell is WAY too much to handle right now.

I think Dan Campbell will always be too much to handle right now.   This neanderthal got a SIX year contract to coach the Lions.   But Eric Bienemy barely gets a glance.   Always an excuse for not interviewing/hiring Bienemy but Campbell is a "football guy" so he gets a shot.  Not that the Lions job is all that great an HC job but there were other options than Lunkhead.

[DrSpaceman73]

I thought rivers would give it another year.  Also surprised the decision was so quick, which makes me wonder if the colts told him they were going younger and have someone in mind

As a colts fan I'd say he played well this season, about what was expected.  Not great, but good. Which really sums up his whole career, imo.  

Now the colts have to decide.   I was looking over his stats and I have no idea what happened this season but wentz has put up pretty good numbers for 3 seasons before it.  

I cant see houston trading in the division so while watson would be great colts getting him is unlikely

Dak wants huge money I don't think Ballard will give him

Stafford is like rivers but 7 years younger, still will be 33 next year.  Cant see it

Wentz actually makes the most sense but have to work out the contract issues.  

[mojoween]

Matthew Stafford is 33?  He looks older than Brady.

[basiltherat]

Perhaps Brady can give Matthew the number for his plastic surgeon.

[AimingforYoko]

Mahomes cleared to play.

Should be a great game.

[caracas1914]

7 hours ago, mojoween said:

Matthew Stafford is 33?  He looks older than Brady.

the secret:

Avocado Ice Cream.

[basiltherat]

Avocado -- I put that s!%* on everything! -- TB

[topanga]

On 1/17/2021 at 9:57 PM, merylinkid said:

We've  never had Brady v. Rodgers in the playoffs.

 

I'm  gagging already

Right? Who will the commentators drool over more? It will be like trying to pick their favorite child. 

[Carey]

Stafford looked older than Brady since 2009, IMO.

 

Speaking of Tom, I guess Aikman can take TB12 for rooting purposes and Joe can keep Aaron for traditional purposes.  Haven't checked recently but I'd figure EA would "side" with Rodgers before Brady while Rinaldi might trend toward Brady.  JMO; it is a tad bit childish coming from yours truly, as it relates the rooting interests for the field analysts!

[xaxat]

Are you effin' kidding me? Houston interviewed retired QB Josh McCown for their head coach position. McCown's coaching experience consists of (checks notes) being the QB coach at the high school his sons attend.

Run, don't walk, away from this mess Deshaun.

 

[Growsonwalls]

10 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Mahomes cleared to play.

Should be a great game.

That is so wrong. Concussions are no joke and the evidence of long term brain damage caused by repeated concussions is overwhelming. He should be out for the rest of the season.

[BitterApple]

13 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

That is so wrong. Concussions are no joke and the evidence of long term brain damage caused by repeated concussions is overwhelming. He should be out for the rest of the season.

When I read Mahomes was cleared, I did the biggest side-eye of my life. Dude's eyes were spinning and he couldn't even walk after that hit. I'm sure Patrick doesn't want to let his team down, but given that he's young, has a kid on the way and his entire career ahead of him, there's no way I'd risk my health. 

[emma675]

I don't know, concussion symptoms can vary from person to person. Some people are fine in a day or two and for others it can be weeks or months. I've had two concussions in my life and I was pretty much fine after about 48 hours, with no lingering side effects, thank goodness. 

I will admit I side-eye that Mahomes is totally, fully recovered, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. 

[Carey]

14 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

On 1/22/2021 at 3:10 PM, AimingforYoko said:

Mahomes cleared to play.

Should be a great game.

That is so wrong. Concussions are no joke and the evidence of long term brain damage caused by repeated concussions is overwhelming. He should be out for the rest of the season.

If Mahomes should be out for the season, then the Browns should lose a draft pick or two, and Mack Wilson & Kevin Stefanski should be suspended for a couple of games to start the 2021 season.

I'll admit: I was happy that Mahomes cleared protocol, but I might not care if Cleveland had won.  They lost out on a TD before losing by 5 (but I think Kansas City wins going away with Patrick in the game the entire time).  I'm not a fan of watching big games or any games without the stars playing, and if the Chiefs had played (and lost to) Buffalo, it would have been a letdown.  Injuries are a part of the game, I get it, but this one would have been painful.

The thing is the people that make the call decided that Mahomes was good to go.  Early in the week, there were talks that he wasn't concussed at all, but he still had to go through the protocol.  I agree with emma: people are different, no two people are the same.  Patrick did what he needed to and passed the tests necessary to make it.  It's not something that can be faked like an upset stomach.  The stumbling was questionable, I'll agree, but he was already battling injury prior to the hit

[Growsonwalls]

13 minutes ago, Carey said:

If Mahomes should be out for the season, then the Browns should lose a draft pick or two, and Mack Wilson & Kevin Stefanski should be suspended for a couple of games to start the 2021 season.

I'll admit: I was happy that Mahomes cleared protocol, but I might not care if Cleveland had won.  They lost out on a TD before losing by 5 (but I think Kansas City wins going away with Patrick in the game the entire time).  I'm not a fan of watching big games or any games without the stars playing, and if the Chiefs had played (and lost to) Buffalo, it would have been a letdown.  Injuries are a part of the game, I get it, but this one would have been painful.

The thing is the people that make the call decided that Mahomes was good to go.  Early in the week, there were talks that he wasn't concussed at all, but he still had to go through the protocol.  I agree with emma: people are different, no two people are the same.  Patrick did what he needed to and passed the tests necessary to make it.  It's not something that can be faked like an upset stomach.  The stumbling was questionable, I'll agree, but he was already battling injury prior to the hit

If Mahomes had popped his Achilles tendon or blown out his knee there'd be no question of him playing. But because he has a head injury he's rushed to play? And it happens to be a super-duper important playoff game? Give me a break. If this were a regular season no doubt they'd sit him out for a week longer at least.

[Carey]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

If Mahomes had popped his Achilles tendon or blown out his knee there'd be no question of him playing. But because he has a head injury he's rushed to play? And it happens to be a super-duper important playoff game? Give me a break. If this were a regular season no doubt they'd sit him out for a week longer at least.

If Mahomes blows out his knee or has tears his Achilles then that's a different story.  Nobody's coming back from that.  There have been half a handful of people that have made successful recoveries from those injuries, but of course none of them have returned a week or two removed from the game.  

If this happens during the regular season, it's more probable than not that he misses time.  I have to say it depends on the opponent or whether they need to win base off of playoff seeding.  In 2019 Patrick did in fact miss time, against Green Bay no less, but he actually had a structural injury.

I won't bet against people rushing Patrick back, but I won't bet on it either.  Both cases are possible; I agree that this is a serious situation.  Mahomes and the NFL may have to answer for it in the longrun, but I would bet of Mahomes gets knocked in the head in the future, TPTB would not allow him to play in the following game.

It is rather sad that the league and company place revenue over one's safety unless there's a case they can lose in court.  I might be a little bias, but if the people making the decisions think he did enough to escape protocol I have to go with that.  People with experience and that are close to the situation will tell you that this is something that a player can't cheat and get away with.  At the end of the day I do hope that Mahomes will be okay tomorrow and going forward.

On a related note, the concussion thing sorta makes me hate the older folks that played the game.  They stopped at nothing in their attempts to go after the league over the concussion and safety for compensation, yet they (or one person this year) had the nerve to question Aaron Donald's toughness.  Loud enough for people to see and hear but not directly to Aaron Donald

[DoctorAtomic]

Players have killed themselves due to CTE and the NFL doesn't care. 

[xaxat]

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Players have killed themselves due to CTE and the NFL doesn't care. 

They started to care more after they lost over half a billion dollars in the players' lawsuit.

Here are the concussion protocol rules for the NFL. Can they be circumvented to ensure a star plays a given game? Probably. But there are a lot of safeguards.

Quote

All return to full participation decisions are to be confirmed by the Independent Neurological 526 Consultant (INC).The INC is an impartial and independent neurotrauma physician, and must be 527 board certified or board eligible in neurology, neurologicalsurgery, emergency medicine, physical 528 medicine and rehabilitation, or any primary careCAQ sports medicine certified physician and has 529 documented competence and experience in the treatment of acute head injuries).

And so on through that section. The league is a long way from the "how many fingers?" concussion test.

[Crs97]

7 hours ago, Carey said:

If Mahomes should be out for the season, then the Browns should lose a draft pick or two, and Mack Wilson & Kevin Stefanski should be suspended for a couple of games to start the 2021 season

Why?  It was a legal hit.

[Carey]

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Why?  It was a legal hit.

That's right.  That hit was totally fair game.  In addition to that, I could see the argument that maybe he wasn't concussed following the play, despite looking like he was totally out of it.

The point was that if Patrick Mahomes was concussed enough to miss the remainder of the season, then the hit would've been severe enough for disciplinary action.  I can get behind someone missing a week, maybe two at most over a concussion.  However, a severe case would likely come off of an intentional hit that would sideline a player longer than normal (i.e. Burfict's hit on Antonio Brown in the 2015 postseason).  IFAIK, Mahomes doesn't have a history; as mentioned, the NFL doesn't give a damn unless the cost of not caring is a heavy one

[Fukui San]

That makes no sense whatsoever. The hit was an average amount of violence for a tackle. Not particularly vicious, not even penalty worthy. Sometimes legal plays can cause grave injuries. That doesn't mean the tackler should be punished if he did nothing wrong.

The same holds true for the tackle that gave Lamar Jackson a concussion. A legal hit, but the fall to the ground was fluky and that led to the concussion.

I'm wondering if Mahomes is going to have to become a strict pocket passer sooner rather than later. His scrambles and runs are a big weapon, but he has had two injuries when he has been asked to run the ball (dislocated knee and last week's concussion).  Maybe the designed runs have to go away?

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Carey said:

The point was that if Patrick Mahomes was concussed enough to miss the remainder of the season, then the hit would've been severe enough for disciplinary action.  I can get behind someone missing a week, maybe two at most over a concussion.  However, a severe case would likely come off of an intentional hit that would sideline a player longer than normal (i.e. Burfict's hit on Antonio Brown in the 2015 postseason). 

Not necessarily.  As @emma675 pointed out, people can react differently to concussions.  People can be woozy for weeks after the slightest hit and feel fine a few days after a violent looking hit.  It's just one thing that is so confusing about them.  Then again, that can apply for any kind of injury.  Some can get hit hard, get up limping and then go back in a few plays because it's just a bruise.

A hit wouldn't have to be dirty to get a lingering concussion. 

Meanwhile, someone can be involved in non-contact drills during practice and tear their ACL. 

So the QB market is going to be interesting this off season. Not only does Deshaun Watson want a trade but now so does Matthew Stafford.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Irlandesa

[cambridgeguy]

8 hours ago, xaxat said:

They started to care more after they lost over half a billion dollars in the players' lawsuit.

They'd care more if the fans cared more, but let's be honest - if the players' long term well being was a primary concern it would be the National Flag Football League.  But it doesn't matter how many people get on their high horse and decry the indifference of the NFL and owners if most of them also jump off and happily watch on Sundays.

[Carey]

8 hours ago, Fukui San said:

That makes no sense whatsoever. The hit was an average amount of violence for a tackle. Not particularly vicious, not even penalty worthy. Sometimes legal plays can cause grave injuries. That doesn't mean the tackler should be punished if he did nothing wrong.

The same holds true for the tackle that gave Lamar Jackson a concussion. A legal hit, but the fall to the ground was fluky and that led to the concussion.

I'm wondering if Mahomes is going to have to become a strict pocket passer sooner rather than later. His scrambles and runs are a big weapon, but he has had two injuries when he has been asked to run the ball (dislocated knee and last week's concussion).  Maybe the designed runs have to go away?

The hit that Mahomes and Lamar received where no different than the hits delivered by people like James Harrison, TJ Watt, and Clay Matthews.  It didn't stop the officials from penalizing those individuals...and each and every one of them were fined.   Harrison got picked on by the league multiple times, to the tune of $100,000, and he was even suspended for a key game due to repeat violations.  Like James, Clay was targeted repeatedly and people were complaining that these guys were taught to play a certain way, and were getting punished for their efforts.

FTR, I'm focusing on legal plays that the refs threw the flag on and the NFL fined the players for that were considered unnecessary.  Helmet-to-helmet hits (or other hits with the intent to injure or whatever) should be handled appropriately.  

Fukai San & Irlandesa, it looks like we're going have to agree to disagree when it comes to this topic.  However, I do respect your arguments.  I have to be clear on a couple of things.  I definitely am not a fan of someone missing significant time unless it is absolutely necessary to do so.  It's stupid for a player to miss an entire season over one concussion, if it's their only one.  I think it's dumb for that kind of precaution unless the independent physicians deem it so or advise against a return to action.  If the independent doctors, along with the team doctors, staff and the player in question say that the player is good to go, then he should play.  The owners are not in the business of paying people to sit if they're able to play.  Of course, as mentioned, they don't care about the players.

TBH, despite my comments & my stance, I would be upset if someone did get disciplined for a legal football play that caused a concussion.  The problem I have is the inconsistency with the league; hits that hurt an opposing player are hardly flagged/disciplined but hits that do nothing to an opposing player are often flagged and/or disciplined (like the play against Josh Allen against Baltimore).  

Again I see the explanations; I may not be a fan of it, but I understand it.  I also understand the severity of concussions and CTE, but I'm sorry; I can't get onboard with someone missing so much time over their first one if they're truly okay to return.  One game, sure, but that's it.

 

Apparently the Browns players were laughing at Mahomes when they knocked him out of the game.  I didn't see it & I can't say I agree, but that was according to Travis Kelce.

 

I do totally agree about Patrick Mahomes having to become a strict pocket passer down the road.  Despite what he's done, there is no way he's playing as long as Brady if he sticks to his current game.  If he channeled Aaron Rodgers or better yet, Russell Wilson, he could be okay.  The thing is, I think he can tone it down.  Unlike Lamar, Patrick is pretty good without taking off.  The sooner the better.  BTW, I think Mahomes is learning to throw with his left hand to where he could actually play like an on-field lefty

[Growsonwalls]

I personally think any concussion should automatically be a season-ending injury. We have to start treating head injuries as seriously as we'd treat torn Achilles tendons or ACL injuries or shoulder injuries.

[Carey]

Despite my previous comments, I do think that something should be done as it relates to concussions.  I still think that it's going overboard to end one's season over their first concussion, but people are different.  Some people have had their seasons ended over one, and that is fair enough to be cautious.

During last year's rushed CBA renewal, one of the things that were omitted from it were protections from CTE and concussions.  Well, not completely, but the new CBA lacked awareness of the issue.  Personally, down the road, if the league were to face a lawsuit over it, I think they will prevail.  I say that because the NFLPA didn't address the issue hard enough IMO.

What should have been included was something stating that if a player gets more than one concussion within a short period of time, they are out indefinitely.  It could be similar to the PED ban for MLB.  In this case, if a player gets more than one in a season, they're done for the year, or if it's one in a future year, they have to sit out at least 4 weeks.  A third one would be indefinite, including missing out on the season all the way up to being barred from the game.  Of course more than that and they would be banned for life.

It really isn't that hard to implement something similar to that.  It wouldn't even affect one's pocketbook, but showing actions instead of words and wishes is the better way to go.

 

As for today's games, man, I can see any team winning.  It would be a total copout to say Tampa and Buffalo cover but Green Bay and Kansas City will survive.  While I think we'll finally get that State Farm Superbowl (or simply a State Farm Bowl) the recipe for Tampa to win is so there.  Plus I almost never pick against Brady.  IMO, I think Buffalo has a better chance of pulling the upset over KC than Tampa Bay against the Packers

[Bastet]

I hate everyone.

Green Bay needs a massive second half turnaround, because the thought of sitting through another Tom Brady Super Bowl makes me want to vomit.  I want to enjoy the game, dammit.

[Growsonwalls]

Crappy play by Green Bay. SIgh.

[merylinkid]

Dammit Brady is going to another Super Bowl isn't he????

[mojoween]

The depth and vehemence of my hatred for Tom fucking Brady is starting to scare my husband.

[Bastet]

"It just seems like they cannot settle for a field goal on this possession."

Wow, that's the astute insight you get paid the big bucks for, Troy.  Down by 18 after playing like shit for two and a half quarters - ya think they need a TD?

[twoods]

The one time rooting for the Packers and this happens. Like mostly everyone on this thread, there is no way I can stomach that botoxed jerk in another SB, much less winning it. 

[Court]

19 minutes ago, twoods said:

The one time rooting for the Packers and this happens. Like mostly everyone on this thread, there is no way I can stomach that botoxed jerk in another SB, much less winning it. 

Same thing last week with me and the Saints. Anybody can win but stupid waxy Tom Brady. 

[Fukui San]

Not over yet!

[Court]

Ughhh. GB special teams are awful. 

I need GB offense to show up. 

[Growsonwalls]

Neither team is acting like they want to win. 

[Bastet]

WTF?!  Kicking the FG?  Green Bay deserves to lose.