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S05.E10: Mother's Mercy


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(edited)

Well, that was kind of a trainwreck

 

D&D have never liked Stannis, and that shines through in this episode.  I have no doubt that Stannis will die in the books, but it won't be anything like this.  Ridiculous, to the end, from half the army leaving with nobody noticing, to Stannis just walking up to Winterfell, to somehow ending up in the woods completely alone just so Brienne can appear to kill him.

 

And Sansa's Winterfell story can officially be declared a complete waste of her character development, as she did nothing all season but re-enact her season 2 story, and all the things people suggested might be manipulations were in fact just "cool" one-liners.  Apparently, putting a Stark in Winterfell means absolutely nothing.

 

Arya's storyline finally got good (apart from the scene opening with Meryn beating the three girls; yeesh, why was that necessary?  We already know he's a villain), and had a very effective ending.

 

I thought Cersei's story was also done well, and I found it interesting how the last few episodes have mimicked the books' POV approach, in that we see nothing of King's Landing beyond what she sees.

 

They botched "For the Watch" completely.  If Thorne was going to kill Jon based on the stuff he'd already done, why the hell did he let him through the gates last episode?  Because when the Pink Letter is removed, that's all he's acting on.

 

Edit:  Oh, and Dorne.  Goddamn Dorne, with the Sand Snakes' brilliant plan to get Trystane immediately killed.  Though I did enjoy that Bronn survived, validating my conviction the idea that he was going to die based on nothing beyond the fact that Arys Oakheart, a character with no connection whatsoever to Bronn's role in the show, died, was dumb.

Edited by SeanC
  • Love 11

According to an interview with Entertainment Weekly, Kit Harrington said he isn't coming back. So unless he and the writers are duping us....

I have a hard time believing he's done. 

 

Here's the link to the EW article:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

 

It sounds like Jon is well and truly dead.  I'm actually pretty damned surprised.  GRRM is one brutal fucker.

I don't buy it for a second.  They may do with Kit what they did with Issac and keep him off the field for a year, but I can't imagine they're taking him off the show for good.  As much as Martin likes playing with convention and subverting expectations I don't see how they could possibly not be an endgame in regards to Jon

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So let me see if I get this:

If myrcella doesn't survive the sandsnakes just got the crown prince killed. That's dumb.

That was an abnormally long nude walk. They were going for uncomfortable but it got boring halfway through.

So Jon dies and he's the only one to know how to kill white walkers(well sam too but he's gone). LOL at the benjen stuff being wasted on that. LOL at the benjen stuff being wasted on that. OMFG OLLY killed jon I am so surprised said no one.

No dany diarrhea :(

Tyrion finally gets his first taste of unfettered power. this should be interesting.

  • Love 1

I understand that GRRM is deconstructing the epic genre and showing how brutal it really was --but fuck it all, there should be someone to root for...I think that if Jon Snow is truly killed off the series will lose a lot of viewers and readers, I mean what in the hell is the point?

 

I think as long as Tyrion, Dany and Arya are still around, a lot of people will still watch. Many seemed to only warm to Jon in the last season or two. I always liked him but I was among the few who did. 

 

I do think he'll be back, but at this rate I kind of hope he isn't, as at least I can say they never butchered his character the way they have so many in the last few seasons.

Kit Harrington was the MVP of the season for me.  Also loved the dragons (and their awesome theme song.)  I wish they had not given Jorah the greyscale--where are they going with that?  Who will (refuse to type her name) burn to bring back Jon?   Maybe herself!

 

What a waste of Shireen!  This season has shown how invaluable the mind of the creator is.  He can tell D&D what happens but it is his brain planning each plot in its infinite detail that really makes the story great.

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(edited)

I don't think Jon Snow is dead permanently; I think Kit Harington is done on GoT. I've always thought that in the short-term Jon would warg his spirit into Ghost (there's a hint in that direction in the book), and then eventually takes over another human's body (which we have precedent for with Bran and Hodor). I considered KH the most limited actor among the regulars, so getting to recast Jon will benefit the show.

 

I loved the opening sequence with Stannis: I cackled when he learned a lot of his men were smart enough not to stick around for a dude who would burn his own daughter. I grinned when he learned his wife had decided to depart this earth. And I outright laughed when he learned Mel had abandoned him and ridden off.

 

MVP tonight for me was Liam Cunningham. His look of grief upon realizing Shireen is dead broke my heart.

Edited by Black Knight
  • Love 7

There are pics of him skulking around Belfast, where they film the Wall stuff from earlier this week. He's so not dead. Shut up, show. 

 

Oooh! Can you point me to a link, pretty please?

 

What did Dany drop on the ground as she was being surrounded by the riders? 

 

 

A ring. I don't know the significance.

 

Since Jorah and Daario went off to look for Dany, I figure it's a clue she left, Hansel & Gretel style, for them to find.  It seems convoluted to me that they'd find such a small piece of jewelry in the Dothraki sea, but there you have it.

(edited)

I have a hard time believing he's done.

I don't buy it for a second. They may do with Kit what they did with Issac and keep him off the field for a year, but I can't imagine they're taking him off the show for good. As much as Martin likes playing with convention and subverting expectations I don't see how they could possibly not be an endgame in regards to Jon

Saying a cast member is dead and off the show and it is actually a big lie is becoming a trend. I'm not going to admit that I watch Revenge, but the villainess of the show was killed off and the actress did all the press saying she was killed and it's the end of her character's story blah blah. She was back an episode later. Edited by CofCinci
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I will say the multiple face thing was cool and creepy.  Trant's death was disturbing as hell.

 

So much for Thorne's redemption.  Could he have shed one fucking tear at least?  I know he hates Jon Snow but it would have shown SOME complexity.  But D and D DON'T do complexity...

 

I liked Theon getting rid of Myranda and jumping with Sansa but good lord, how they mismanaged the Northern and Reek storylines.

 

It feels like this show going into Season 6 is a train wreck.

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My Gendry is the only Baratheon standing. Seemingly. If it still means something in the grand scheme of things, and I'm not sure at all it does.

But hey, I'm Team Good Bastards, I'm taking solace where I can.

As for my other boy, I'd bettter get word of Kit Harrington sighting on set next year, otherwise I'll, er...sulk? Until he's back.

What did Dany drop on the ground as she was being surrounded by the riders? 

A special pin the elves gave her to clasp her cloak closed. She was wearing it when she went to get the lembas for her and drogon.

 

Seriously, I think she dropped an earring or something so non-exiled Jorah and non-kidnapped Daario can have a bromance looking for her as she's carried off to Vaes Dothrak or something. They'll know she's ALIVE. PROOF OF LIFE.

  • Love 11

Ugh, this was.......not good at all. Not one story resonated with me and I was just left mostly bored. Keeping only the bare bones of story lines and characters (when they aren't outright changing them) has left so much of this season with a hallow feel to it. I'd be lying if I said I was done watching the show but this season has really proven to be it's own beast instead of an adaptation and not in a good way.

 

The only feeling I had was anger at the Dorne plot. All it accomplished the the utter assassination of Elliaria's character which is odd since they have really been pushing this idea of maternal instincts making a woman too weak willed to kill and Ellaria is a really traditional feminine woman for the most part.

 

For the poster upthread that said Kit isn't returning, I don't buy it. Without Jon there is no reason to be at the wall or focus on the white walkers. Then again with writers like these I'm sure they'll shoehorn someone in if Jon really is a goner.

  • Love 7

I don't think Jon Snow is dead permanently; I think Kit Harington is done on GoT. I've always thought that in the short-term Jon would warg his spirit into Ghost (there's a hint in that direction in the book), and then eventually takes over another human's body (which we have precedent for with Bran and Hodor). I considered KH the most limited actor among the regulars, so getting to recast Jon will benefit the show.

I loved the opening sequence with Stannis: I cackled when he learned a lot of his men were smart enough not to stick around for a dude who would burn his own daughter. I grinned when he learned his wife had decided to depart this earth. And I outright laughed when he learned Mel had abandoned him and ridden off.

I don't think there will be a recast. Maybe I'm in denial, but I think at most he will be absent season 6 and come back in season 7. And I definitely don't trust EW or anyone else regarding what's gonna happen.

  • Love 7

Well...I rather enjoyed that.   

 

Drogon licking himself and curling himself into a comfortable ball for a nap...yes he's dangerous but also adorable.  Nice nest of bones there.  I'm pretty sure he'll come to Dany's side and she'll not end up as some random Dothraki slave girl.  I hope she only get smarter from her experiences in Mereen.  One can hope.

 

Poor Davos, you know this will break his heart somewhat.  I'm sure he wouldn't support Stannis anymore once he would hear news of Shireen, so he is at a loose end now.  Unless he can help the wildings or take the black, but with the deviations from the book I am not sure where they can go with him. Stannis totally got what was coming to him - he was to one way minded to really rule Westeros effectively and especially after what he did to his daughter, no one in the North much less the rest of the country would accept him.  It's no surprise that so many of his men left.  Melisandre is damaged goods as well.

 

I could have swore that Kit has previously mentioned that he'd signed a contract for the next two seasons, unless that was just a blind comment to fool people.  Who knows, maybe they will have Melisandre will pull a Thoros and sacrifice herself for Jon.  That kind of makes sense now.   

 

Not liking what they did to Myrcella. It was meaningless.   

 

Rather enjoyed the Walk of Shame, and I agree with everyone, Lena was great. And I agree with Stephen Dillane also being just spot on terrific as Stannis, 

  • Love 3

A special pin the elves gave her to clasp her cloak closed. She was wearing it when she went to get the lembas for her and drogon.

 

Seriously, I think she dropped an earring or something so non-exiled Jorah and non-kidnapped Daario can have a bromance looking for her as she's carried off to Vaes Dothrak or something. They'll know she's ALIVE. PROOF OF LIFE.

The Three, I mean Two Hunters.

  • Love 1

A special pin the elves gave her to clasp her cloak closed. She was wearing it when she went to get the lembas for her and drogon.

 

Seriously, I think she dropped an earring or something so non-exiled Jorah and non-kidnapped Daario can have a bromance looking for her as she's carried off to Vaes Dothrak or something. They'll know she's ALIVE. PROOF OF LIFE.

My Wife though it was her new wedding ring from Mereen guy.  So perhaps it was to make sure no one knew she remarried.

  • Love 12

I cheered when Meryn Trant and Myranda bit it.

Not sure Stannis is dead. We didn't see the killing blow.

If the Night's Watch stabs their commander, and a red witch revives him and he leaves, does he get hunted down for desertion? Or are they all like "See you Snow, don't forget the direwolf? Oh and here's a fleet of ships, a bunch of Wilding, and Wun Wun."

Dany bores me. Can't blame Drogon for ignoring her and wanting to nap.

  • Love 2
A ring. I don't know the significance.

 

Wedding ring. She's widowed again, and there was a Khal with a very long braid.

 

I thought this was very well done - my quibble was that in the books they shaved Cersei's head, and on the show they gave her an adorable pixie cut. It's like the Septas dropped out of beauty school to join the religious-fascist crusade. The whole thing was supposed to be humiliating, which I guess it was, but that haircut really works for Lena Headey. I'm just sayin'.

 

The Arya scenes - I gotta say, eye gouging scenes are pretty squicky for me, and that one really, really took it . . . a long way. Yuck. "A Man is not Jaquen H'gar" turns out to be literally true, and Arya finally gets it. The scene when she sees her own face was approprately creepy. She's the only character not caught up to ADWD! This just takes her to the end of AFFC! So I guess she's gonna be stuck in Braavos for a while.

 

People are saying Davos doesn't know what happened to Shireen. But from the look in his eyes, I think he does.

 

I still think Jon is not dead in the books. But on TV, Mance and Cat didn't get their second acts, so maybe Jon won't either. The thing is, people base the theory that Jon ends up as the messiah on Melisandre's visions, but Mel, pardon my French, is a dumb bitch. And now she knows it. I doubt she has enough faith left to raise the dead.

 

But hey, it wasn't all a grim episode. You gotta have a twinge of happiness for Brienne. You go girl! Achieve your dreams.

  • Love 9
(edited)

If Kit Harrington cuts off his hair, we will know he is dead for sure .

 

We could get a different haircut to sell the new Jon Snow.

 

I think Jon's Night Watch vow is definitely over and can you blame them?

 

Just what the fuck to the 47 men at the Night's Watch intend to do to all the Wildlings now?  Think that through, geniuses!

 

I imagine Davos will kill Melisandre when he knows the truth.

Edited by benteen
  • Love 2
(edited)

It sounds like Jon is well and truly dead.  I'm actually pretty damned surprised.  GRRM is one brutal fucker.

They did the same with Madeleine Stowe/Victoria Grayson on Revenge this year. Interviews on how she was well and truly dead and shit. She was back the next episode (OK, the ending was near).

Seriously, my deal breakers are Arya and Jon (not even Tyrion or Daenerys or Brienne or Jaime or Davos or Gendry...although they're the ones who matter to me, too).

 

I really hoped they wouldn't do FTW as a cliffhanger, because imo it's a no-win situation: either all the build-up about his parentage and his progression as a character was for nothing, either his resurrection comes off as a cheap trick, just like Oliver's death on Arrow, where you know that the main character won't die anyway.

People are going to wait, but it won't be a positive, thrilling wait. More like, do I get disappointed, or do I get really mad?

As far as no-win go, I'd take the cheap trick, of course. But it's my only real beef with the finale.

Edited by Happy Harpy
  • Love 6

I was glad Arya got her revenge, but being blind may be a very high price.

 

I'm sure Davos knows Shireen is dead, but i don't think he knows how she died.  Mel is going to let him assume she died in the battle.

 

That was a pretty high jump/fall for Theon and Sansa.  If Myranda bit it, how do they survive?

 

Are we to really presume Brienne killed Stannis when we didn't see the result of her swing?

 

My power shorted out so I missed the second Mereen scene with Varys and Dany's scene as well.  Guess I'll have to catch a repeat.

 

I'm sure Jon somehow survives in some way, whether through Ghost or Mel and I'd almost have to bet Mel since she has to have some reason for returning to castle black.

 

The walk of shame was pretty good, as well as the introduction to frankengregor.

(edited)

Well, if it's true that Kit Harrington was hanging around Belfast, then it's likely they filmed some scenes with Jon's body (who discovers it? aren't they going to burn it?). Although I agree that the character's story doesn't seem finished (in show or in prose).

 

The cause of Shireen's death won't be a secret for more than a day, at most. Half of Stannis' army deserted because of it, and since this is Bolton Country, I imagine the only means of escape is north, to Castle Black. There ought to be more than a few volunteer messengers who will report to, uh, Thorne about the plot of Episode 9.

Edited by Tim Thomason

Meh. It was weird that the show took out Ramsey's letter to Jon and Jon's decision to march against him and make a speech about it to the Watch, essentially deserting his post as Lord Commander and giving his doubters the final straw to break their loyalty. That was the trigger for Jon's assassination. Taking it out takes away the reason why the conspirators decided to act against Jon after working with him so long - it looks like the Watch just shrugged and said, "Eh,now's as good as any other time for our collective betrayal." Which took the drama out of it. Lame.

 

Just BTW - when did Sansa ever learn to pick a lock with a corkscrew? Seems more like something Arya would know. Whatever.

 

Battle of Winterfell an incredibly disappointing pushover. 

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Wow that EW interview has taken the wind out of my sails.  I was looking at the phrasing and I don't mind the "I'm dead" stuff because Mel can resurrect him.  I wouldn't even mind Jon Snow is dead, because that could be a play on words if he is AA returned.  But Kit said that HE was done and I don't see them bringing Jon back without Kit.  I don't know - now I'm sad and I don't know if I give a fuck anymore.

  • Love 5

FTW was done horribly, but one of things is, is the Nights Watch just fucking stupid?  Your job is protect the realms of men or whatever.  How is killing your LC who just had the lovely experience of Hardhome to share a good idea?  They didn't do enough to even sell the show version of FTW.  Sam leaves, okay. Where's D. Edd?  Where are the Wildings?  Already partying down in the Gift?  The setpiece for this section garbage with its emptiness and lack of drama.  Traitor!  Thorne's delivery of FTW was, I don't know, lacking in emotion or even interest.  And then we end on Newbie Show-Created Character as the kill stab?  Also, where's Davos and Mel, chilling on top of the Wall with Ghost?  Whatever.  

  • Love 5

Wow that EW interview has taken the wind out of my sails.  I was looking at the phrasing and I don't mind the "I'm dead" stuff because Mel can resurrect him.  I wouldn't even mind Jon Snow is dead, because that could be a play on words if he is AA returned.  But Kit said that HE was done and I don't see them bringing Jon back without Kit.  I don't know - now I'm sad and I don't know if I give a fuck anymore.

Actors lie about this kind of stuff in interviews all the time.

  • Love 4
(edited)

I've read all the books, but frankly, I never was wed to them--I thought that this episode was mind blowing--I'm sure that a lot of it was confusing to non book readers (like do they know that it is a faction of the Dothraki surrounding Dany?)  We didn't see Stannis die did we?  What will book readers make of Jon Snow's "death" I wonder?

Mindblowing, for sure!! The pacing for the show has been so much better than the books. I love most all of the changes.

 

People have been speculating that Jon doesn't really die, and if so, the show would make that clear.... Guess not!

 

We lost so many contenders to the throne in this single episode! Stannis, Myrcella, JON SNOW!?!? I always thought he was well and truly dead, but George resists making it clear, doesn't he? I only read the books, and didn't know about all the speculation regarding his parentage and prophecy. So I figured he was completely dead (I never understood warging into Ghost as being a way to remain alive -- he'd be a direwolf forever.)

 

And people got revenge, finally -- Brienne, Arya, and even Theon in that he stole Sansa from Ramsey.

 

Such a good episode. It made some of the slower parts of the season really matter in a way they didn't before this act.

 

Cersei -- OK, yes, I felt empathy for her, as a fellow woman of a certain age. Doesn't mean I forgive her, but it does mean the showmakers did their jobs. Well done, show!

 

Stannis, I did not feel much for. I wish he'd suffered more, and I hated hated that Ramsey won.

 

I feel like a weight has been lifted in some way -- I love being Unsullied again -- no more comparisons!

Edited by Andromeda
  • Love 5

I understand that GRRM is deconstructing the epic genre and showing how brutal it really was --but fuck it all, there should be someone to root for...I think that if Jon Snow is truly killed off the series will lose a lot of viewers and readers, I mean what in the hell is the point?

Now there is Dany, to be quite honest, I am not really that into.I like Arya and Tyrion, but R+L=J was a big draw for me, and we will never come full circle with Arya, Needle and Jon(and if Arya finds out what the Watch did to Jon, there are going to be a lot of dead Crows to make the wildings happy). And no matter how invested I am in Jon, I don't think I can really accept anyone but Kit in the role. I hate the idea of Mel knowingly reviving Jon, especially with what she did to Shireen, but can get on board with it being a complete accident and Jon rising and leaving Castle Black, with Davos physically helping Jon.

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Actors lie about this kind of stuff in interviews all the time.

I guess, but that's fucking stupid.  We all believe he is important, even the actor must know about the theories behind his character, and if he starts filming - we'll know.  So hey aren't doing themselves any good -they are just pissing off show and book fans alike.  We've been waiting years to learn how Jon lives and the truth of his parents and instead we get Jon is dead and Kit isn't coming back.

 

My live-in is unsullied and he's like "that's it, I'm done. This show sucks" after tonight's episode.  I said this would happen and these people are going to have to do some serious PR to change that attitude. 

  • Love 3

 

Sansa really took control of her of own life this season, she opened a door. Empowerment!

 

Seriously, I want to hear from all the people who were stepping up and saying that storyline was good for Sansa's character. 

 

 

Meh. It was weird that the show took out Ramsey's letter to Jon and Jon's decision to march against him and make a speech about it to the Watch, essentially deserting his post as Lord Commander and giving his doubters the final straw to break their loyalty. That was the trigger for Jon's assassination. Taking it out takes away the reason why the conspirators decided to act against Jon after working with him so long - it looks like the Watch just shrugged and said, "Eh,now's as good as any other time for our collective betrayal." Which took the drama out of it. Lame.

 

I'll never understand why the writers continually strip all the complexity out of their characters and situations. And it always leaves gaping plot holes, like why wouldn't Thorne leave Jon and the Wildlings on the other side of the Wall? 

 

And another obvious question, if there is no Aegon/Trystane reveal, why in the hell did they waste time with Dorne? The whole thing was a disaster and completely pointless if all it led to was Myrcella's death.

  • Love 8

The great battle commander Stannis gets completely destroyed by Ramsay yet again. I guess he used his magic powers to summon all those men out of his ass. 

 

Sansa really took control of her of own life this season, she opened a door. Empowerment!

 

So what was the point of Dorne this season again? Anyone? And what the hell was that line from Tyene.

 

To be fair, it's a really magnificent ass.

 

Sansa also called Ramsay a bastard...but of course her story wasn't about shock value and sexual assault being their way to try to define a character they've never understood. 

 

The point was probably time-filler for Jaime, an excuse to keep Bronn around, pretty location shots, and a chance to see more boobies. And they got to recycle some old Cersei scripts for Ellaria the way they did with Joffrey and Ramsay. 

 

The show really went green this season.

  • Love 2

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