S05.E08: Hardhome

[Pogojoco]

Just wanted to add something that reminded me of what bugged me last week-

 

Hey Jon? You know what's helpful in a big battle with ice zombies? YOUR DIREWOLF. 

 

Again, A plus to the wilding woman, who doesn't even get a name. She worked every second she had screen time. Birgitte Hjort Sørensen is best known for a Danish show called Borgen, and she has a following for that. I love that she was in Pitch Perfect 2. 

[jeansheridan]

I agree a little bit re. Tyrion not asking about the dragons. 

 

But he's playing it cool. He can't ask about the dragons right away- it'd be like finally getting a date with someone you really like and ruining it by asking for sex immediately. 

I think Tyrion also scored points by not commenting on her looks.  It does seem like every man who meets her for the first time makes some sort of comment.  Other than Selmy and Greyworm.  He completely played into her need to be a "good" ruler.  I like seeing all the intel he picked up from Jorah and Varys being used.  I liked seeing him name drop Varys too to see how she would react. 

 

Dany also mirrored his body language too.  Tyrion is sort of slumping back (a bit because of the chair being too big for him and a bit due to his drinking) and she slowly leans back too after having rigid body posture.  Emilia Clarke really was very good in that scene.  She listened, didn't get offended when he poked at her ("Let's assume that's true"), showed off some of her knowledge of Westeros (she knew Varys's name, seemed to know all the names of the big houses).  Yep, good scene. 

[SeanC]

I don't get it either.  Ned may have been "nice" to Theon but Theon was still his prisoner.  Had Balon acted up Ned would have cut Theon's head off.  He owed none of the Starks any loyalty.

That's in the books.  The show doesn't like complexity, so it has framed the arc as "Starks good, Theon bad" -- hence, him calling Ned his real father, a sentiment Theon in the books explicitly rejected.

[Dev F]

Hey Jon? You know what's helpful in a big battle with ice zombies? YOUR DIREWOLF. 

 

Heh, true. Then again, it's probably not a good idea to schlep a giant half-wild canine around in a rowboat.

[jeansheridan]

I think Jon left Ghost behind to protect Sam.  And Sam clearly needed it.  Plus, I think it might have just been cost/logistics.  CGIng Ghost on top of all of that would have been challenging.  AND my heart couldn't have taken it quite frankly.  Robb's wolf getting killed the worst part of that entire episode for me.  Yep, I'm that cold hearted.  If everyone dies but the dragons and direwolves, I'm good.  Seriously. 

Edited June 1, 2015 by jeansheridan

[patchwork]

I'm glad Sansa knows Theon didn't kill her younger brothers but I'm scared of what Ramsay will do to her if Reek confesses to telling her. I wouldn't put it past this show to use the story of Book!Ramsay's first wife starving to death as inspiration.

 

But maybe this means next season Sansa will abandon the Game and take over Davos' storyline searching for Rickon. 

 

On the whole I loved this episode, Jon is they guy you want on your side when ice zombies show up (while you watch from a distance and hope it all turns out okay). 

[Pogojoco]

 

 

 

I don't get it either.  Ned may have been "nice" to Theon but Theon was still his prisoner.  Had Balon acted up Ned would have cut Theon's head off.  He owed none of the Starks any loyalty.

I think the weird prisoner/foster son thing is the central issue for Theon and his identity, both in the book and the show. I think Theon felt loyal to the Starks because he loved them. He says that he wanted to be one in the last book. But he knows he's not. He knows Ned would've killed him if Balon acted up at all, but it's natural to feel allegiance to the people that treat you well. And it's Theon who presents Ned with his sword for the execution in the very first episode. So he has some status. 

 

So Theon's in this weird no man's land- not Iron Born, not a Northerner. He goes home to Dad, is generally humiliated and starts to make some really, really bad decisions. 

 

And I certainly think the Stark kids (minus maybe Jon, who doesn't like him in the book) loved him. Robb certainly does.

 

I think Theon is one of Martin's most interesting, complex characters. And Alfie Allen plays the heck out of him. 

[enlightenedbum]

Again, A plus to the wilding woman, who doesn't even get a name. She worked every second she had screen time. Birgitte Hjort Sørensen is best known for a Danish show called Borgen, and she has a following for that. I love that she was in Pitch Perfect 2. 

Apparently her name was Karsi.  Or at least that's what Alan Sepinwall says and I trust him.

[magdalene]

I would like to have one of those cranky giants as a buddy. His stomping of the zomboni was cool.

[MrWhyt]

I think the weird prisoner/foster son thing is the central issue for Theon and his identity, both in the book and the show. I think Theon felt loyal to the Starks because he loved them. He says that he wanted to be one in the last book. But he knows he's not. He knows Ned would've killed him if Balon acted up at all, but it's natural to feel allegiance to the people that treat you well. And it's Theon who presents Ned with his sword for the execution in the very first episode. So he has some status. 

Stockholm Winterfell Syndrome

[tennisgurl]

What a rush! I feel like its season 1 again, when I was a young, non book reading unsullied! I have no idea what is going to happen next, but I`m actually excited! 

[jeansheridan]

I think the weird prisoner/foster son thing is the central issue for Theon and his identity, both in the book and the show. I think Theon felt loyal to the Starks because he loved them. He says that he wanted to be one in the last book. But he knows he's not. He knows Ned would've killed him if Balon acted up at all, but it's natural to feel allegiance to the people that treat you well. And it's Theon who presents Ned with his sword for the execution in the very first episode. So he has some status. 

 

So Theon's in this weird no man's land- not Iron Born, not a Northerner. He goes home to Dad, is generally humiliated and starts to make some really, really bad decisions. 

 

After meeting Balon too, I get the feeling Balon would do whatever he wanted, regardless of his son's life.  Maybe in the first few years, but after 10?  Not so much. 

Theon is also the one who saved Bran's life from the Wildings.  I think the Starks had every right to assume he had loyalty to them.   Both sides had earned their mutual respect and love.   It was only Cat who was suspicious, but that seemed to be Cat's nature (and clearly she was right in Theon's case).  He really is a very tragic figure. 

 

Meant to add I love Ramsey's boldness.  I think this is very true to character, for him to do a raid.   He has a sly intelligence.  He likes games.  He's patient.  I wonder if we're going to get the dead bodies in the camp story, BUT in Stannis' camp, not Winterfell?  Or if Ramsey will become "Reek" and infiltrate?  Mellisandre and Ramsey would be quite the pairing. 

[FemmyV]

 

The episode ends with a somber note about whether Arya can successfully kill this guy, but the preceding sequence just laid out plain as day that it should be easy.  Is it meant to be a moral question instead?  Because the episode really didn't raise that idea either.

 

Suppose she's at the docks and about to give "the gift" to Mister, when suddenly

Meryn Trent

walks by. Tough choice.

[Oscirus]

I think Dany's test was seeing how he'd handle the Jorah situation. If he told her to kill Jorah, then he's a brown noser and not worth her time, if he told her to take Jorah back then he's not really advising her. I think he provided the perfect balance. He saved Jorah's life and he advised her to her best interests. There was also the fact that he addressed her as an actual person and not as some person to be revered for her name.  I thought their second scene together where they bonded over terrible fathers and what not was quite well done.

Also, given what he's been through, it's crazy that this is the first time in the series that Tyrion gets to give advise to a person who will respect it ( I guess there was Jon at the beginning and the Blackwater war, but those amounted to like 3(?) episodes total).

I also like that even though Dany knows that she's doing great things that above all else, she wants to go home.

 

So it's looking like Sansa will be the one to reunite the Starks. Going into speculation, I suspect that Sansa meets up with Stannis and tells him about her brothers which will lead to his sending Davos on that mission. Though I do wonder why Jon didn't tell Stannis about them since he knows they're alive. 

To enter into the debate of whether or not Theon was like a brother to the Starks. Ultimately, Ned's sins aren't his kids' sins. They treated and loved him like a brother so for him not to return said love is a bit of a betrayal. 

I have a feeling that whatever Ramsey does to the Stannises is going to be bad.  Hopefully it's not something as heinous as kidnapping and flaying you know who.  But I suspect it will hurt Stannis regardless of what he does.

 

Arya's story is so boring. People complain about Dorne, but at least stuff happens there.

 

So the show just pretty much confirmed a lot with regards to the wall portion. Sam just accidentally advised Olly to stab the shit out of Jon. Which is advise that I'm sure that Olly is going to gladly follow. Jon is most likely the AA and the sword that he received from Mormont is likely the lightbringer.  That thrashing  that Jon and company received officially marked the white walkers as the biggest threat on the show.

 

Also, they switched up on us. Normally the ninth episode is the biggest episode of the season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Raachel2008]

Also, they switched up on us. Normally the ninth episode is the biggest episode of the season.

 

 

That makes me think that episode 9 will be kind of blah, so episode 10 can wrap this season catching up with the books - at least for Jon, Cersei and Arya. 

[Brn2bwild]

That makes me think that episode 9 will be kind of blah, so episode 10 can wrap this season catching up with the books - at least for Jon, Cersei and Arya. 

 

Unless, of course, episode 9 is Drogon, Cersei's walk of shame, Sansa's escape from Winterfell, and Melisandre realizing that she's made a terrible mistake.  

 

Episode 10 could be Kevan getting stabbed by Varys, Tyrion and Jorah freeing Dany's other dragons, Arya's big kill/turning blind, Sansa and Theon hopefully safe with Brienne.  As well as Jon's Julius Caesar moment.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Brn2bwild

[Miles]

A lot of people cried "sexism" the last few episodes and I really didn't see it. It was just bad things happening to people, like it always does on this show, and it just happened to be a woman in this case. This episode I do see it and nobody else seems to. That a badass warrior woman is unable to fight against some zombies, just because they happened to have been kids once, is pretty insulting, imo. Especially since she has got her own kids to get back to, who she knows aren't 100% save with the crows.

Other than that very good episode. The Aria part I could tae or leave at this point while they do progress that storyline a lot faster than in the books, it's still a little slow for me.

Tyrion's and Dany's talk was really fun to watch. I'm looking foreward to them taling some more in the future, especially since Tyrion nows a thing or two about dragons.

Hardhome was amazing, apart from the thing I mentioned above. I didn't think the show could captivate me this much with a battle, after the battle for the wall last season left me rather cold.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Miles

[Happy Harpy]

Arya! Arya was there! Yeah! 

It nevertheless accentuates my feeling that she's treated like Bran but too popular to be absent a whole season. I understand that training doesn't translate well and that shortcuts have to be made, although M.Williams has imo that way to makes every scene she's in entertaining. So I'm taking what I can, hoping her BFM come in the last two episodes and that she'll finally get more screentime.

I was wondering whether they were watering down the FM, since IIRC we saw mercy killings and now a kind of vigilantism taking down a "bad guy", but maybe Not Jaqen knows that Arya isn't ready to kill without reason. 

 

Talking about the Starks, so much for Winterfell being a regression for Sansa. I didn't see her assertive in this way since she showed public support for Tyrion at the Purple wedding. I can like this Sansa. And she knows! I hope it means we're getting Rickon and Osha back. 

A.Allen continues to impress.

 

Nice job breaking it, Sam. You think you convinced Olly to trust Jon? Methinks you just convinced the boy to stab him. People won't understand, indeed...not those in front of their screens, at least. 

 

Ramsay is so evil and repulsive (I.Rheon is as always excellent) and everything always working his way makes it even worse. I have no hope that his raid won't succeed. He's going to kill Shireen, isn't he? *sobs*

 

Another shitty day in Ser Jorah's life. I love him, and he's doomed. I.Glenn owns his scenes.

 

I'll join the choir, Tyrion and Dany are made of awesome. It does wonder to both of them imo, and I think P.Dinklage and E.Clarke have an easy, natural chemistry. LOL at the implicit "easy on the wine, pal". 

 

At the beginning of the showdown, I had flashes of the Walking Dead, with the Walkers pressing against the door. 

I lurve Tormund and his bromance with Jon. They're so going to kill him, too. Sigh. 

Ditto on the Wildling woman love and the kids thing...although, when I think about it, at least they took the time to establish that she had children whom she loved and were obviously her first priority, so it can be taken as "hitting close to home" and not merely as "women think with their uterus". 

My two main thoughts during the fight: "Where is Edd" and "Please don't sink Stannis' boats or he will burn Jon". 

 

And Jon. Jon, it rhymes with awesome. Or not, but whatever, he is. So. Much. Awesomeness. "King Crow", sounds like an 80's band but I was "hell yeah he's da king" anyway.

 

My last thought was that I have no idea whatsoever on how they're going to defeat the army of the dead. All of a sudden, even three dragons feel a little scarce

Edited June 1, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Pete Martell]

In their defense, I believe it's HBO's promotional department that writes up those summaries, not anyone from GoT. 

 

However, this is the second episode this season where they've referred to Theon as being a brother/ like a brother to Starks who weren't Robb and I don't get that at all. Theon never considered Sansa a sister, he even entertained thoughts of marrying her. I don't recall him ever thinking that Rickon and Bran were his brothers either, but Sansa said it this episode. She elaborated by saying he knew them since they were born and I agree with that, but they're overdoing this adopted brother relationship. Weird that this bothers me, because I wasn't bothered when he said, "My real father lost his head in King's Landing" a couple seasons ago.

 

I didn't mind that because he was delirious from torture, and I'm sure in some way he did see Ned as a father, especially given that Ironborn fathers weren't exactly sitcom dads to begin with.

 

It just feels cheap here, like they weren't sure if viewers would feel any emotional weight in these scenes unless we were told that Theon was a family member. 

 

The problem is if he was a family member or a friend, he would have been less likely to betray them. The Starks were courteous to him, and Robb was very close to him, but he was a ward. That's just how it worked - the Starks wouldn't have known how to treat him as anything else even if they'd wanted to. This basic fact riddled him with insecurity and ultimately led him to betrayal. 

 

I imagine someone just starting the show would watch these episodes and think Theon lashed out because Jon took his favorite cloak.

[enlightenedbum]

Unless, of course, episode 9 is Drogon, Cersei's walk of shame, Sansa's escape from Winterfell, and Melisandre realizing that she's made a terrible mistake.  

 

Episode 10 could be Kevan getting stabbed by Varys, Tyrion and Jorah freeing Dany's other dragons, Arya's big kill/turning blind, Sansa and Theon hopefully safe with Brienne.  As well as Jon's Julius Caesar moment.

Things I expect:

 

Drogon doing his thing (next week based on the title), Sansa and Theon escaping/something resolving Brienne's story this season, Stannis making a decision on Shireen and Davos leaving with her regardless of what that decision is, Fire and Blood, Arya killing Meryn Trant, Cersei's penance walk (episode ten based on that title), and Olly/Alliser/other Night's Watch assholes stabbing Jon.  I think Kevan has to be established as competent before Varys kills him so that's saved for next year.

[Hecate7]

Would cousin-fucking be considered incest on Show Westeros?  In the books, marriages between first cousins are common.  Tywin and Joanna are first cousins and The World of Ice and Fire revealed that Ned's parents were cousins.  The show has never really mentioned if that's considered to be normal.

 

Lysa Arryn thought it was okay--she engaged Sansa to Robin.

[MadMouse]

A lot of people cried "sexism" the last few episodes and I really didn't see it. It was just bad things happening to people, like it always does on this show, and it just happened to be a woman in this case. This episode I do see it and nobody else seems to. That a badass warrior woman is unable to fight against some zombies, just because they happened to have been kids once, is pretty insulting, imo. Especially since she has got her own kids to get back to, who she knows aren't 100% save with the crows.

 

 

I think most people are just happy there wasn't any rape/attempted rape, sexual assault,random boobs or zoom ins on women's crotches. 

 

On a lighter note, since we didn't have any sad Sand Snake gifs. I bring this.

Edited June 1, 2015 by MadMouse

[Anne Elk]

I am not a fan of battle scenes. This one, however, was well done dramatically, once we got past all the scenes of random CGI people/zombies hacking each other and dying. The scenes at the end really communicated how unprepared Jon and his army are for the coming war against that unstoppable foe. I just hope there's a better ending planned than "magic prophecy prince with magic sword magically saves the day."

 

I don't like that they introduced the female wilding leader character with a potentially interesting personality and then wrote her such a stupid death. Boo, show.

 

Can Gilly and Sam go far, far away for good now? They bore me to absolute tears and always have.

 

I like Arya's storyline because it looks so good onscreen, and at least it's a change from all the blue Northern scenes, but yes, it's time for the writers to kick it into gear.

 

I think Ramsey's plan is not so stupid. He knows those soldiers don't have any particular loyalty to Stannis. He launches a few guerilla attacks on them and they're liable to decide it isn't worth the aggravation and desert. Meanwhile, I want Sansa to escape, but I hope she doesn't ally with Theon/Reek. Have her accomplish something on her own for once.

 

Tyrion and Dany were more interesting than anything else Dany has done this season, but it's time for some movement in this storyline also.

 

What the hell is the point of Dorne even existing? What a waste.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Anne Elk

[placate]

Okay, I gotta ask but what does proving that you watched World War Z and want to make many walls of zombies jumping on themselves a thing? 

I'm a bit sad that Arya becoming a faceless man involved her getting a new hair style and screaming that she was cat of the canals, dear Sam is not becoming a maester so he's just having tons of un-protected sex with Gilly.  and really, you guys thought that Valyrian steel wasn't dragon steel?

[Miles]

I think most people are just happy there wasn't any rape/attempted rape, sexual assault,random boobs or zoom ins on women's crotches.

I still think the rapes were pretty middle of the road for this show, where guys are getting their penises and heads lobbed off left and right and the boobs weren't very random as the Sand Snake used them to get Brons blood puping for the poison to work faster and to taunt him / show him that she is in control, even half naked. It's Drone afterall, they don't give much of a f*ck about nudity. I myself am german and have been swimming on nude beaches since I was a little kid. I can never quite understand the big hura around boobage.

Now a female warrior not being able to fight, and just letting herself be killed, when she sees something that had at some point been children, that is really insulting and sexist. But ymmv.

[Spartan Girl]

I think Tyrion also scored points by not commenting on her looks. It does seem like every man who meets her for the first time makes some sort of comment. Other than Selmy and Greyworm. He completely played into her need to be a "good" ruler. I like seeing all the intel he picked up from Jorah and Varys being used. I liked seeing him name drop Varys too to see how she would react.

Dany also mirrored his body language too. Tyrion is sort of slumping back (a bit because of the chair being too big for him and a bit due to his drinking) and she slowly leans back too after having rigid body posture. Emilia Clarke really was very good in that scene. She listened, didn't get offended when he poked at her ("Let's assume that's true"), showed off some of her knowledge of Westeros (she knew Varys's name, seemed to know all the names of the big houses). Yep, good scene.

Totally. I think that's also why Tyrion also supported Dany banishing Jorah again, despite defending him. He needs to get on her good side and he was smart enough to see that no matter what he said, she wasn't going to forgive him any time soon.

Plus you can't exactly blame Dany. Like she said, Jorah had ample opportunity to come clean and he didn't trust that she would forgive him. If he had told the truth, maybe things would have worked out differently, but he made things worse by letting himself get exposed.

Laughed when Dany gave Tryion shit about drinking. Oh, this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship...

At least Sansa knows her little brothers are alive.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Spartan Girl

[maystone]

I didn't see any sexism in Karsi being struck immobile with horror and grief at the sight of the wight children. My impression is that she knew at least one of them - the one on the right who seemed completely intact except for the glowing eyes - and probably most of them. I think it's unrealistic (if you can say that about this situation to begin with) to expect her to start wildly hewing at some little kids who probably played with her own kids not that long ago.

[Haleth]

Excellent episode.  I loved all the changes from the book.  The Hardhome battle was needed to remind viewers of the real enemy.  Yay that Jon discovered the most useful property of Valyrian steel.  (And now he can send Sam to Old Town to consult with the maesters.)  I was thinking about the woman warrior that she was going to be the new Val.  Oops, guess not.  

 

The scenes with Tyrion/Dany, Sansa/Theon, Cersei/Septa were wonderful.  Everyone was on their A game.

 

Random thoughts:  

I will be disappointed if Sansa is all bygones with Theon after he revealed that he did not kill Bran and Rickon.  Regardless, he did kill 2 innocent little boys (among other atrocities).

 

I would not be surprised if Jorah dies in the pit next week (?) when Drogon makes an appearance, especially if the dragon appears to threaten Dany.

 

Arya's FM assignment, yeah, everyone hates insurance agents.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Haleth

[OakGoblinFly]

I mostly liked the episode; I loved everything about Hardhome from the dialog, to imagery, to the action sequence, and the acting (Kit Harrington was stellar in all his scenes - something I thought I would never say about him).  Everything Hardhome made up for a rather slow moving episode.

 

Alfie Allen and Sophia Turner were wonderful in their scene - they really do play well off each other.  Allen truly is the unsung acting hero of the show - I like how Theon/Reek visible shrank into himself when Sansa confronted him ... great acting choice.

 

I like that we got a little Cat of the Canals and wonder where the show runners are taking Arya's story.

 

I really didn't need to see Cersei this episode - her scenes could have waited until next week.

 

I like the idea of Tyrion and Dany - I would have thought those scenes would have popped - but something felt off.  Dinkelage while not his usual stellar self, was good and Clarke seemed flat ..... the scene didn't work for me.

 

I am bored with Sir Jorah.

[kieyra]

A lot of people cried "sexism" the last few episodes and I really didn't see it. It was just bad things happening to people, like it always does on this show, and it just happened to be a woman in this case. This episode I do see it and nobody else seems to. That a badass warrior woman is unable to fight against some zombies, just because they happened to have been kids once, is pretty insulting, imo. Especially since she has got her own kids to get back to, who she knows aren't 100% save with the crows.

I've seen this sentiment 2 or 3 times, and honestly I think it's possible we've reached a point of occasionally looking for things to be offended by. I didn't read it as being "uterus" driven, as the weirdly reductive joke goes now, but as her being struck dumb by the sheer, absolute horror of the mute zombie kids, who are basically the creepiest thing on this whole show. After that hesitation, there were just too many of them.

Disclaimer: I possess a uterus.

Edited June 1, 2015 by kieyra

[WatchrTina]

 

Jon's Julius Caesar moment.

I think the show has got to go completely off-book now if that moment is going to happen.  Even if Jon hears that Sansa is at Winterfell, even if he received a letter from Roose Bolton taunting him, how can he possibly consider leaving the Wall to come to the aid of Winterfell now that he has seen the army of the dead and the White Walker king?  

 

Furthermore I'm going to be quite irritated if the brothers of the NW return with all the Wildings AND the stories of the armies of the dead (which is the whole reason they went to fetch the Wildings) and Ollie just ignores the peril from the White Walkers and stabs Jon because he allied with the Wildings.  I mean yeah, he's a kid, so maybe not the best political strategist but if Ollie is the one who takes down Jon and he does it for simple, misguided vengeance -- it's really going to piss me off.  He should want to kill Tormund, not Jon.  

 

Oh well, I'm not going to get worked up in advance.  It's kind of fun not to know where things are going.

Edited June 1, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Avaleigh]

And Jon. Jon, it rhymes with awesome. Or not, but whatever, he is. So. Much. Awesomeness. "King Crow", sounds like an 80's band but I was "hell yeah he's da king" anyway.

 

My last thought was that I have no idea whatsoever on how they're going to defeat the army of the dead. All of a sudden, even three dragons feel a little scarce

I know, right? And I'm assuming that an ice dragon isn't going to be thrown into the mix on the show but we got another mention of the pale ice spiders so you *know* they're coming too eventually. 

 

I'm curious as to how many Others there are. We saw thirteen of them in that scene where one of Craster's babies is changed and I think there were five who were present in this episode. All of them seem to be male and obviously female Others aren't really needed anyway but I am curious to know if the NK's wife will ever be a character. (I still kind of like the theories that she could be Melisandre.)

 

I like that the wildlings are the first ones to think of Jon as a King. 

 

I loved Karis (glad to get her name) admitting that her ancestors wouldn't want her siding with the crows and saying that they were dead so why should she give a fuck? I also liked that she got the line about hating Thenns. 

[proserpina65]

I'm still processing all that, but I have two initial impressions:

 

1) Cersei, you reap what you sow, bitch.

 

2) I've been complaining for two seasons now about the lack of urgency in the Wall storyline, what with D&D choosing not to use of any of the encounters between the Night's Watch and the army of wights on the retreat from the Fist of the First Men, and making Sam & Gilly's journey to the wall/Bran & Co.'s journey away from it (mostly) look like a walk in the park compared to the books.  I should've been careful what I wished for.  I had to hide behind a pillow for the last 15 minutes or so of last night's episode because reanimated rotting corpses freak me the fuck out.  I'm going to have to tape the show and watch it again in the daytime, 'cause it did sound awesome.

 

[Avaleigh]

I'm a bit sad that Arya becoming a faceless man involved her getting a new hair style and screaming that she was cat of the canals, dear Sam is not becoming a maester so he's just having tons of un-protected sex with Gilly.  and really, you guys thought that Valyrian steel wasn't dragon steel?

It wasn't until last night that I learned there was even any debate about this. It seemed totally straightforward to me. As straightforward as the idea that it's more than likely one needs Valyrian blood to be a dragonrider or that one needs the blood of the First Men in order to be a warg.

[Notwisconsin]

Did the female wildling's uterus shut down her ability to defend herself against child zombies?

I think that one of the zombies was once her kid....

[Ottis]

Hey Jon? You know what's helpful in a big battle with ice zombies? YOUR DIREWOLF.

 

 

Except that, as the show has already shown, Jon left Ghost at home to, in part at least, help keep order while he and his crow allies are gone. And it worked, saving Sam and Gilly. Also, Jon didn't know there would be a battle. He was simply going to get more allies, and then battle happened.

 

The conversation with Dany and Tyrion, the second one when they discussed the great houses, was the first time I had sat up in my chair and listened to this show's dialogue maybe all season. Just really well done, and the twists and turns of their verbal sparring were rivoting.

 

I actually wasn't that impressed with the White Walkers and their zombies, not until that final scene. To see the mysterious, unstoppable White Walkers in the flesh, acting like regular orc leaders or something, brought them down greatly from what i had pictured in my mind. Now they are simply another army, with the added ability to raise those they kill into zombies. I did like that final scene, mostly because of Jon's reaction to what he was seeing. It did give a sense of, 'How the hell do we win this?"

 

Also? No one froze to death in that water? I know they are from the north, but seriously ... hypothermia in minutes, or less.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Nick Rheinwald-Jones on last night's ep: http://previously.tv/game-of-thrones/a-hardhomes-gonna-fall/

[Stardancer Supreme]

I think that one of the zombies was once her kid....

 

While that would have made more sense, that wasn't true. She put her children on one of the boats.  The Wights and the White Walkers apparently aren't waterproof, so Jon and the others could escape.

[proserpina65]

I thought the episode was painfully boring. I don't give a shit about the Night's Watch scenes or the White Walkers.

I watch this show for the awesome political drama and great complex characters like Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei and so on. Not stupid CGI zombie battles. Ugh.

 

This show is following the spirit of the books in this regard.  What's happening at Kings Landing is a petty distraction to the real story up north.

 

I distinctly recall a raven arriving from the ships in the books with the message "Dead things in the water."  Worst.  Raven-Message.  Ever.

Yep, one of my favorite things from ADWD, Cotter Pyke's ravengram from Hardhome: "Dead things in the woods . . . dead things in the water.".  I was sorry that D&D were going to lose that line with the changes to the storyline, but, well . . .

[proserpina65]

With the Rains of Castamere instrumental playing, no less.

I didn't even notice that.  Gonna have to watch it again, obviously.

 

Even just listening to the battle scene at the end, this was by far the best episode, not just of this season, but of the past two seasons.

[WatchrTina]

 

we got another mention of the pale ice spiders so you *know* they're coming too eventually.

Oh gods you are right.  It's going to be like the Battle of the Five Armies in The Hobbit where every creepy thing that was ever mentioned in the book is going to show up for the final battle.

 

Ooooh, that's giving me a thought --- I wonder if an "army" of Children of the Forest is in our future.  They're pretty bad-ass, what with flinging fire-bombs at wights and all.

Edited June 2, 2015 by WatchrTina

[nodorothyparker]

This managed to be the best episode they've done in at least a season despite my still being bored to tears by the Arya in Braavos story.

 

I like that we're moving things along now, pushing meetups that the books are still piddling along about and confirming things that we sort of already knew but didn't really KNOW for certain like Valyrian steel.  While I remain unconvinced that Dany will ever be the ruler they seem to be fluffing her to be now but who cares because dragons, her scenes with Tyrion were the most interesting she's been in awhile.  Her big wheel speech came off every bit as bombastic and ridiculous as most of her pronouncements and I think demonstrated to Tyrion that while she knows all the important names, she still really doesn't have any understanding of how Westeros really works or what it would take to hold power beyond the initial conquest.   I'd like to think we're going to see him try to rein in some of her more impractical ideals and lay some hard truths on her about how she is going to have to learn to co-exist with the ruling families unless she's prepared to take every last one of them out down to the roots and completely restructure everything about how an entire continent is run.  And yeah, I wish too as long as Tyrion was bringing him up that he'd set the record straight on Jaime killing the Mad King but then realized that Tyrion was still a child when that happened and it's pretty unlikely Jaime's ever explained himself to him about it either.

 

I guess Cersei really can't be sending letters to someone who's supposed to be sneaking into a region undercover, which sucks because I really liked that in the books.  But I do like that beyond her one line about how she made the High Sparrow she seems to be every bit as unreflective as ever that she made the trap she's now ensnared in and only really has herself to blame.  She's been reduced to licking water off a dirty floor to the strains of Rains of Castamere but she's still trying to threaten or buy her way out and thinking that or course someone will be along any minute to rescue her because she's a Lannister, dammit.  Aging Tommen up now makes no sense at all if they're going to continue to write him as if he was still an 8-year-old boy.  He's the king and he's hiding in his room because they took his mommy away?  

 

Some of the animated skeletons felt a little cartooney but Hardhome was incredible and everything the Wall story should have been these last few seasons instead of being reduced to some bleak emo scene every couple of episodes where someone intoned that bad things were coming only to be mostly ignored.

Edited June 2, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[proserpina65]

The Sparrow is going for incest...among other charges such as regicide and treason. But the incest takes the throne from Tommen...which will be news to him if he ever leaves his room.

 

Not necessarily.  The incest charges may only refer to her sleeping with Lancel, her cousin, and not have anything to do with the relationship with Jaime.  I guess we'll see at her trial.

[nodorothyparker]

I am curious to see how the addition of the incest charge plays out.  I always thought it rather funny in the book that most of the charges against her were for her smaller stuff and left out the big glaring incest mess that everyone "knew" about that led to the succession crisis and the War of the 5 Kings in the first place.

Edited June 1, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[proserpina65]

And this is how the show makes Cersei sympathetic again.  Who wouldn't root for her over that stone faced nun?  And I'm proud of her for licking up the muddy water.

 

I wouldn't.  Bitch deserves everything she gets.  I have absolutely no sympathy for her.

[rollacoaster]

Is it just me, or did anyone else look through the horde of undead thinking, "Okay, which one is Benjen..."

 

 

YES!

[Ambrosefolly]

I think the weird prisoner/foster son thing is the central issue for Theon and his identity, both in the book and the show. I think Theon felt loyal to the Starks because he loved them. He says that he wanted to be one in the last book. But he knows he's not. He knows Ned would've killed him if Balon acted up at all, but it's natural to feel allegiance to the people that treat you well. And it's Theon who presents Ned with his sword for the execution in the very first episode. So he has some status. 

 

So Theon's in this weird no man's land- not Iron Born, not a Northerner. He goes home to Dad, is generally humiliated and starts to make some really, really bad decisions. 

 

And I certainly think the Stark kids (minus maybe Jon, who doesn't like him in the book) loved him. Robb certainly does.

 

I think Theon is one of Martin's most interesting, complex characters. And Alfie Allen plays the heck out of him.

Absolutely. I think part of Theon holding so tightly to the Reek identity probably has more to do about how he betrayed Robb and what he did to those 2 boys than what Ramsay dished out to him. 

[cambridgeguy]

 

Hey Jon? You know what's helpful in a big battle with ice zombies? YOUR DIREWOLF.

Summer needed time to take down one zombie last season.  If Ghost had been there he would have been torn apart by the swarm.  One of Ghost's big advantages is that people are (justifiably) terrified of him, plus they have lots of trouble functioning when their throat is being torn out.  The zombies have less of an issue with this.

 

I guess even Tyrion doesn't care about the Martells?  The one great house untouched by the war that is most likely to support Dany?  Seems kind of short sighted, but perhaps he was testing Dany's resolve?

[Arnella]

Since the white walkers have been a threat for 1000 years, shouldn't they have records about obsidian and valerian steel being the weapons to use.  I hope someone is writing it down now anyway - get to it Sam!

Good battle but Jon still bores the crap outta me.  He always looks like he's about to burst into tears as well.

Loved that Wilding woman but knew she was doomed when she watched her children float away - sigh.

Confused about Jorah - what is his plan?  He's looking to get executed this way!  Go help pave the way for Dany in Westeros - work the long game and prove your worth another way.

I hope knowing that Bran and Rickon are alive gives Sansa some comfort.

Arya's story got annoying and now it's boring.  I hope she sees some action soon.

[BlackberryJam]

Random thoughts:  

I will be disappointed if Sansa is all bygones with Theon after he revealed that he did not kill Bran and Rickon.  Regardless, he did kill 2 innocent little boys (among other atrocities).

 

 

Just saying here, Sansa didn't give a flying fuck that Micah the Butcher's boy was killed and she was dreamy, moony, romantic tween Sansa then. Other than just full on hating of Theon for many reasons, and the need to manipulate him, I can't see hardened Sansa giving a flying fuck about two rando boys either.

 

I've seen this sentiment 2 or 3 times, and honestly I think it's possible we've reached a point of occasionally looking for things to be offended by. I didn't read it as being "uterus" driven, as the weirdly reductive joke goes now, but as her being struck dumb by the sheer, absolute horror of the mute zombie kids, who are basically the creepiest thing on this whole show. After that hesitation, there were just too many of them.

Disclaimer: I possess a uterus.

 

Agreed. Those children were creepy as fuck and what I saw happening was her looking at their faces and seeing her own children, or what could happen to them. Also, they were standing there staring at her. I didn't expect her to go full sword rage on wights that were not attacking her, especially when they were so chilling. I loved that moment actually, for showing the humanity.

 

Also noting, I loved Karsi in the few minutes of screen time we had, and she was so well-developed. So it can be done, *cough* Sand Snakes *cough* when you don't cast shitty actresses and give them stupid dialogue.