S05.E14: Spend

[kj4ever]

I think if Rick was scary, psycho caveman Rick Pete would already be dead.  It sounds like it has been a week since the party, right? 

 

Deanna is a disappointment and way more of a politician than a leader.  Her reaction to Tobin (Yay!  an Alexandrian who realizes they are weak and that they should do something about it) was idiotic.  She was worried more about power then about keeping people safe and having the best man on the job.  Bad judgement there Guv'nuh, bad.  She is going to get a whole lot worse when they come back without Aiden.

 

Anyone else have the feeling of dred that Maggie, in the grand tradition of CDB, will keep FPP information to herself for everyone's own good?  Ugh.

 

I called it last week that Carol would be the one to figure out Pete was beating his wife/kids.  Wow, I got something right!  I want Carol to take him out.  Desperately.

[AndySmith]

I want Carol to take him out.  Desperately.

 

For dinner and a movie, or coffee and a movie? ;)

Edited March 16, 2015 by AndySmith

[econ07]

Even zombies hate Chris (somebody had to say it).

[GodsBeloved]

With Carol turned into a cardigan-wearing stone cold killer, and Rick seriously considering whether to assassinate Jessie's husband (I think that's what we're supposed to believe he's thinking), I wonder if the show is planning on flipping the good guy paradigm. We think of our guys as being the good guys, threatened on all sides, but maybe Carol and Rick are evolving into bad guys that will have to be dealt with.

The show wants us to wonder whether Alexandria is safe, or a bad situation, but maybe it's civilization and the Carols and Ricks cannot fit in there because they are too far gone.

I would love to see this happen but I'm not holding my breath.

Someone said CDB aren't murderers. At the very least I think Rick is. He runs down a man who was running away and who had his hands bound behind his back. Then he gets out of the car and kills the guy. If that isn't murder I don't know what is.

[Haleth]

Is FPP still holding a grudge about how Rick and the others shot up the Termites in his church?  Other than that I can't remember any horrible things he's witnessed.  If that's the thing, in his chat with Deanna he left out the small detail that the poor shot up souls were, you know, eating Bob.

 

RIP Noah.  That was brutal.  It's terrible that Glenn didn't have a bullet to save him the agony of being ripped apart.  (Why didn't someone shoot Aiden?)  He and Glenn shouldn't have followed Nicholas to the front door, knowing that it was never going to work.  The only good thing to come of that run was that Eugene is starting to step up.  Baby steps, Eugene.

 

No doubt that Dickolas is going to say that the CDBs left Aiden and they knocked him out unprovoked.

In other words, they adhered to The System. Everyone for himself.  Right, Nick?

 

I still don't care about the Porch Dick family, but shooting Pete seems a little drastic, no?  But once again Pete offering to check up the Grimes kids was the most menacing thing he said.

 

3 black men in a row.  Not cool, show.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Haleth

[Ottis]

I don't see how Nicholas can lie and carry the day. Both Glen and Eugene saw what happened, in the revolving door and at the van afterward. Both the Alex group and Rick's group lost someone, and Rick's group also has another member gravely injured. Meanwhile, Tobin stuck up for Abraham, and Abraham (who has found a purpose again) saved one of the Alexs. So for anyone to believe FPP based on the events of last night's episode would be plot wanking of the highest order.

 

As for Pete, I don't know. Feels like a set up. I first thought the kid was after a gun for his dad, who wanted to shoot Rick out of jealousy. All we have to go on that Pete is abusive is Carol's assumption and the fact Pete drinks a lot and is a dick when he does.

 

Last night one person who was killed was indeed black, and one was white.

Edited March 16, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Removed potentially offensive sentence

[I-Kare]

I'm actually loving the Rick/Jessie storyline that's enfolding. I've always like the actress who plays Jessie, and *to me* they have great chemistry. 

 

To be honest, this is the first time in ages I've actually been interested in Rick. 

[Door]

The Carol MacBeth thing is ringing a bit false for me. Whispering in other peoples' ears is a backslide for Carol. She hasn't been like that since season 2. The Carol she's grown into would have consulted with Rick but would have chosen to kill Pete herself, imo, or at the least said "we have to kill him, Rick," not "YOU have to kill him."

 

Poor Noah. POOR NOAH. GOD. Glenn is for sure a better person than me because I would have knocked that traitorous weasel Alexanderite out and LEFT him there.

 

This is the first episode I really liked Abraham. I also liked how not everyone at Alexandria is a weasel. That foreman dude readily stepped up by stepping down. He's not an idiot like some of the others (WEASEL!).

 

So happy Eugene finally stepped up! Yes, he's a coward, but when faced with a moment where he HAD to be brave, for realsies, no cavalry coming, he did it. His journey to badassery is much slower than normal but he's doing it. Good job.

 

Father Pee Pants should be the one torn limb from limb. I also couldn't believe Alexandria just had a surplus of priest collars laying around for him to wear. It's funny the things that I can't suspend disbelief on when watching a show about the ZA.

 

I am enjoying the character of Deanna because it's relatively difficult to get a read on her. That's a nice change from the twirling moustache antagonists of yore that at best were unsettling (Termites) and at worst scenery chewing (Guvnuh). I can't be sure if she believes FPP or is going to kick him out. I like the not knowing.

 

Where was Michonne? 

 

I can't believe Rick would be so interested in Mrs. Beige but he did marry Lori so maybe his taste just sucks.

 

[Pete Martell]

Is it difficult to make a priest collar? 

[Timetoread]

I'm pressed for time so here are quick thoughts to get off my chest before I get time later in the week to read all these posts and comment on them.

 

1. Noah down.  That bothered me because I really liked this kid and thought he offered a fresh perspective.  It also bothers me because once again we see that black males are a true endangered species.  PP's out any day now (and that day can't come fast enough, IMO.  More on that later.)  Michonne has been rather uppity lately, having opinions and such and daring to speak them aloud and act on them.  I worry about her safety.

 

2. Eugene, Jesus H, it's about time you grew a pair.  He seemed to like the fit too because when he got all manly he kicked butt and took names.  I like it!

 

3. Glenn.  Just awesome - the character and the actor.

 

4.  I know I was the only one but I was sad when Deanna's son died.  Sad for him because he was a young guy and he seemed to be coming around to the idea that CDB could teach him something.  He died trying and I never fault anybody for that.  I was also sad for Deanna because the Alexandria people are only now going to start experiencing the apocalypse as everybody else has.  Her first loss is her son.  That's no small thing.

 

5.  Speaking of Deanna, it seems that there is a lot of dislike for her, but so far, I'm okay with her.  I don't blame her for treading lightly with CDB.  These people are strangers and she has an entire community of people who look to her and who will blame her if she effectively invited the danger into their midst.  She has to feel them out and I agree with her, she should be careful about simply handing power to the strongest because they are the strongest.  Yes, CDB ARE strong and capable but many are also suffering PTSD and borderline psychosis.  They are so deep in survival mode that they are antisocial and antisocial is anti community.  They don't necessarily operate in the best interest of the whole.  They act on instinct of what they THINK is the best thing to keep them alive.  So far the most useful, IMO, has been Abraham.  He leads first by example, then he just steps up and leads - for the good of the community.  Rick and Carol, as far as I can surmise, have devolved into hyenas - predatory scavengers that pick and choose what other humans are of worth to them.

 

6.  I'm alone in this too - I was not mad at the Alexandrian's M.O. of run from danger.  We have a fight or flight response.  If you don't deem yourself up to the fight, then you flee.  It seems that they have survived from this code of simply run for your life, it is better for one to die while the rest live than for ALL to die.  But from what I can see they are willing to learn how to do better than that.  They were shocked to see Abe fight and keep fighting and WIN.  It inspired them.  That is a good thing.  And I found myself almost physically attracted to the dude who was man enough to step down when a better man for the job showed up.  It wasn't about ego, it was about the greater good.  I loved him!

 

7.  Alone.  I don't see anything productive about killing Pete.  Yes, he's a wife beater.  That needs to stop, but he also the only doctor.  Honestly, I liked Shane's approach, beat him to a bloody pulp and dare him to lift his hand to ANY woman ever again.  He can be removed, detained, OR punished for his crime - but killing him is a waste and is, pardon the pun, overkill.

 

8. Father PP.  Sigh.  Clearly he's insane.  I just find his character personally frustrating.  I am tired of seeing religious people portrayed as weak, cowardly maniacs.   Just once I'd like to see someone whose faith keeps them going.  That said, he can die.  He's too dangerous in my book.  He doesn't just preserve self, he throws people (children even) under the bus so that it slows down enough for him to get away.  He's trash.

 

9.  Because it needs to be said again, RIP Noah.

 

10. Alone again, this show feels weird to me, not at all the same show.  They need to stop killing people so much because they will lose viewers if there is NOTHING interesting or pleasant about the show.  I know it is brutal and the subject matter is what it is but I tuned in to see people SURVIVE.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Timetoread

[paigow]

It would sure be nice if she lives.

Maybe a F.A.R. triangle is being set up. Francine may not have all of Rosita's combat skills, but she definitely has more grit than most ASZ women shown so far.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

 

 

3 black men in a row.  Not cool, show.

 

 

        Agreed, not a good look at all..

[AndySmith]

3 black men in a row.  Not cool, show.

 

Technically, 2 black men in a row. It went Bob, Beth, Tyrese, and now Noah. I don't count Aidan since he isn't part of the main group. And before Bob, it was 3 white people in row (Hershel, Mika, and Lizzie).

Edited March 16, 2015 by AndySmith

[Haleth]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about Beth.  LOL

[Boofish]

How bad is Pete treating Jesse that her kid would rather hang out and bake cookies with a woman who threatened to tie him to a tree and leave him for walker chow

 

*In my Kayne West voice* Tyrese I'm gon' let you finish dreaming about all your dead friends but Noah had the most brutal death of all times

[Tippi Blevins]

Gabriel still being alive reminds me of what Morgan said in "Clear." Good people die, bad people die, and weak people survive...

[paigow]

Is it difficult to make a priest collar? 

Olivia did it...Take a strip of boar skin, bleach it....

[chlban]

Hypocrite, thy name is Gabriel. I hope his fate is worse than Noah's.

While Deanna is clearly nervous about the shifting of power, what difference does it make if Abe is named leader of the construction crew? Does he get a raise? More health benefits? A bigger and better stock option? In reality, Deanna is seen as the governing body and her people would be loyal to her.

I tried to read her face as the defrocked asshole spoke to her. He was more than a little crazy-eyed and with him spewing comments about Satan ( look in the mirror, you sniveling pariah!!!) she seemed to be looking at him as if he was a little nuts. I hope so.

I think she was eyeing him as a lunatic, rightfully so. If he had presented a rational theory, it would have had more effect but when he started raving about Satan? Yeah, alrighty then. Of course you know I need some time to think about this, so um, get the F out of my house you raving nutcase.

 

However, one has to wonder how she reacts when she finds out her son is dead. Punching him is one thing, a dead son is altogether different. Especially since you know Douchy 2 is going to blame our guys. She still isn't going to buy the Satan stuff, but the fact that  the group brings death and destruction. Well, there is that.

 

BTW, if you are living in the Zombie Apocalypse, where you have to worry about being eaten by dead people that have come back to life, even if one was extremely religious,  does one really need to be looking for a "disguised" Satan? I mean, you are living in pretty much anyone's definition of hell already.

 

I co-sign with shooting people in the head if they are about to be eaten. I don't think that makes me Carol crazy either. I was not evena little surprised when Noah was killed. I knew it in the opening scene when he started talking about the "future" .Obviously Noah does not watch the show or he would have known better.

 

If there is any justice Father Pee Pants is next. I won't be surprised though, if it's Pete. I don't like the domestic violence storyline. Waaaay to convenient and contrived. I am also just really not interested. Not really interested in another disturbed kid storyline either.

 

I think last night was a preview of  what the issue is going to be now. Deanna will blame them for Douche's death. Rick and Carol have decided Porchdick has to die, because I guess just offering Jessie and the kid refuge and protection would be too boring. So, here it comes all kinds of conflict from within.

 

One question related to Talking Dead. The host last night called them ASZhats? Does he read these boards? 

[CrashTextDummie]

I have to say, revolving doors are a pretty ingenious set piece on a zombie show. An almost Saw-like trap in how it tested the moral integrity of its victims. Probably one of my favorite action scenes in the history of TWD, even if it was a bit predictable. The only way it could have been even better would have been if there were people we cared about on both sides of it.

 

Really strong half season for Glenn so far. Not too pissed at Noah's death, because I'm optimistic it will inform Glenn's character, the same way I think Tyrese's and Bob's deaths already have informed Sasha's. Also a really strong half season for Carol (actually a really strong full season). I love how she's using her experiences as a battered wife as tools and weapons in the ASZ: how to be invisible, how to compell someone to keep a secret, how to spot an abusive relationship. I remember people thinking there was nowhere left to go for her after her redemption arc, but they couldn't have been more wrong. Carol's in the thick of a lot of ongoing plotlines and remains the most multifaceted and fascinating character on the show.

 

They've also been very economical in giving (almost) the entire seconary cast purpose and meaning in a short amount of screen time. I also don't mind the FPP development, as I think treachery from within the group has a huge amount of dramatic potential. It's also pretty refreshing: For as much infighting as we've had in CDB, we've never had anyone openly plotting to destroy the group. And FPP is a pretty interesting villain personality wise.

[Bad Example]

Oh, and kudos to AMC with their flashback scenes.  After Aiden's spectacular fail against the military Walker, I loved how the next break they showed Maggie successfully dispatching Riot Gear Walker back in the day.  And THAT'S how it's done, Aiden.

[Paws]

I feel we are all missing the point of the last two episodes- HOW FREAKING HOT Andrew Lincoln looks without the crazy man beard, and with food in  his stomach. Damn.  Although he is like 7 feet shorter than Drunk Ass Pete.   I really wish Rick would hook up with Michonne and not Jessie though. 

 

Anyhoo...

 

 

Wouldn't, say, Rosita, maybe be a better choice than the limping guy with indeterminate combat experience?
Where the hell is Rosita?

THIS!!!   Especially since both she and Tara get so little screen time that I often confuse the two of them.   

[EDTV]

the way they are portraying the alexandrians is kinda silly to me. We're supposed to believe these people are all morons and cowards? yet they manage to run a town that looks picturesquely perfect?

 

and yet as soon as Rick's brave and cunning team comes it all starts falling apart right away?

 

and the whole Rick/Jesse thing is also kinda silly. Carol wants the town doctor dead based on some suspicions from a kid and the way he answered the door? he may very well be an abuser but Carol cannot know that with any kind of certainty from what she saw/heard. The idea that she would put a hit on him from what she saw just doesn't seem realistic. 

[Sakura12]

When Sam showed up asking about the stupid cookies again, I thought "is there something wrong with this kid?" Then he started talking not caring that Carol was being an asshole to him, I started thinking "What is going on his house that he'd rather talk to the woman that just threatened to string him up for zombies to eat?"  No wonder Carol was finally worried about him. 

 

Noah was kind of a pointless character anyway, so I'm not upset at his death. Although that was the most gruesome death by zombie I've seen yet. Poor Glenn and he kept his eyes open the whole time. I don't think they'll have much explaining to do, they both lost a member of their groups. AZShats lost Aiden and the CDB's lost Noah.

 

Someone needs to punch FPP out. WTF? man, those Satan worshipers saved your life. If they were such horrible people they could've kept on walking and ignoring your cries for help. They survived out in the wild for so long because they are willing do whatever it takes to protect their own. Did he still not believe the Terminus people were cannibals? I thought he saw Bob's charred half eaten foot?

[Sofie Fatale]

Is it difficult to make a priest collar?

I was thinking this too lol. In absence of the real deal wouldn't a white strip of paper do?

[Primetimer]

The show's revolving-door casting gets literal.

Read the story

[BrokenRemote]

A clerical collar, btw, is usually just a strip of white plastic or cardboard that slips into the front of the shirt. We saw that when Gabriel burned his. It would take 30 seconds and a pair of scissors to make a new one.

And yes, in the absence of white cardboard, wrap a piece of paper around a strip of brown cardboard. Or fold a bunch of white paper.

[kj4ever]

Technically, 2 black men in a row. It went Bob, Beth, Tyrese, and now Noah. I don't count Aidan since he isn't part of the main group. And before Bob, it was 3 white people in row (Hershel, Mika, and Lizzie).

If this show has issues with a certain group, it is definitely  blonde females.  I think they have killed way more of them off then black men.  Probably because Kirkman couldn't get any blondes to touch him in his special place when he was in high school.

 

I know they wanted Noah's death to be all dramatic and everything, but what was that walker eating that he could rip the flesh right off of Noah's face?  Seriously show?  A half way decomposed corpse had the strenght to do that?

Edited March 16, 2015 by kj4ever

[ghoulina]

Deanna is a disappointment and way more of a politician than a leader.  Her reaction to Tobin (Yay!  an Alexandrian who realizes they are weak and that they should do something about it) was idiotic.  She was worried more about power then about keeping people safe and having the best man on the job.  Bad judgement there Guv'nuh, bad.  She is going to get a whole lot worse when they come back without Aiden.

 

Absolutely. You could see her internally freaking out at the prospect of CDB taking over all their positions of power. Well, what did she expect? They're running that place like a joke. They wanted this group for a reason, now deal with it. 

 

Anyone else have the feeling of dred that Maggie, in the grand tradition of CDB, will keep FPP information to herself for everyone's own good?  Ugh.

 

No, because I don't see how it could be good for anyone if she kept it to herself. 

 

Glenn is for sure a better person than me because I would have knocked that traitorous weasel Alexanderite out and LEFT him there.

 

Same here. I would have been all, "Sorry, dude....it's the system". 

 

7.  Alone.  I don't see anything productive about killing Pete.  Yes, he's a wife beater.  That needs to stop, but he also the only doctor.  Honestly, I liked Shane's approach, beat him to a bloody pulpl and dare him to lift his hand to ANY woman ever again.  He can be removed, detained and punished for his crime - but killing him is a waste and is, pardon the pun, overkill.

 

True, he's the only doctor. But he also seems drunk half the time. He was drunk when he went over to Rick's house. That was the same day Noah was killed and Tara was injured, right? So they just brought unconscious Tara back home and who's going to attend to her? That asshole with the shaky hands and blurred vision? If I were in charge, and abuse was confirmed (which, as much as I suspect Carol is dead-on-balls right, it needs to be confirmed), I'd isolate him in his own house. Have guards on him. Let him keep helping people, but not let him anywhere near his family. His choice is to either sober up and be a useful, upstanding member of the community. Or get to walking. 

[SimoneS]

I don't get the hysterics over Rick and Jessie. They have barely had a few minutes of airtime in the last two episodes yet some people are commenting as if they are having some grand romance taking up tons of airtime. I hope that Rick gets to at least have sex with her so all the complaining going on can finally match what is happening on the show.

 

I don't get the skepticism from some people that Jessie is being abused. Everything from last night points to this. Pete refusing to let Carol see Jessie or Sam is a typical abuser tactic.

 

So what if we had Ed abusing Carol as a story early in the series. There is only one woman beater left in the Zombie Apocalypse? Rick and his people did not have to deal with Ed anyway so this is a new challenge for them. And of course, Rick is going to have to kill him, but I bet that he hems and haws because Pete is the only doctor and Jessie does want to be responsible for the death of the father of her kids, resulting in Pete killing Jessie first. Women are in the  most danger from violent abusers when they try to leave.

 

As for the Alexandrians, it seems clear that they were barely holding it together which is why they were recruiting people. If they kept abandoning people, then they must have lost far more people than Deanna has admitted. Gabriel's crazy rant will no doubt put Deanna on guard.
 

We got a glimpse of Rosita in bed sleeping when Abraham was looking in the mirror.

Edited March 16, 2015 by SimoneS

[ghoulina]

Oh, and kudos to AMC with their flashback scenes.  After Aiden's spectacular fail against the military Walker, I loved how the next break they showed Maggie successfully dispatching Riot Gear Walker back in the day.  And THAT'S how it's done, Aiden.

 

 

Right??? As soon as I saw that walker with helmet shamble up I thought of when they cleared the prison. I couldn't believe Aiden was such an idiot to just shoot at it. Oh wait, yes I can.

I don't get the skepticism from some people that Jessie is being abused. Everything from last night points to this. Pete refusing to let Carol see Jessie or Sam is a typical abuser tactic.

 

And I think Carol might just "know" about these things. Having been there herself. 

[candall]

 

On rewatch, the cut from the scene of Carol and Sam to the revolving door of death and mayhem was really jarring.

Some really weird pacing this evening.

 

On Talking Dead, one of the fun facts was that Jennifer Lynch directed this episode.  She's David Lynch's daughter.  There's probably nothing linear in the woman's whole life.

[MelineB13]

All I could think during Gabriel's speech was that he sounded just like those bipolar women who decide to drown their children in the bathtub because they saw the devil in them. 

 

And honestly, I felt like Deanna was thinking the same thing.  But who knows how long that will last when she finds out about the casualties (including her son.)  Although, I got the sense that she knew her son was kind of a dumbass, and she may even know that they abandoned their group before.  If one good thing can come out of Noah's death, it is that Glenn will be able to show that CDB also lost a person (and had one gravely injured) in that mission, so it isn't all one sided.  

 

Have we ever been told how many alexandrites there are?  You have to figure that Abraham converted at least half a dozen to his side that day.

[lulee]

Is FPP still holding a grudge about how Rick and the others shot up the Termites in his church?  Other than that I can't remember any horrible things he's witnessed.  If that's the thing, in his chat with Deanna he left out the small detail that the poor shot up souls were, you know, eating Bob.

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought too. No one would have told or confessed to Gabriel about some of the other brutal things they've done. He was horrified about what happened in his church, but he knew (or ended up knowing) that those people who kidnapped and partially eaten one in their group and were trying to murder the rest, including the children. So while the mode and location were horrific, his holier than thou act was hard to take. It was the same church were he let an untold number of people die.

 

I don't get the hysterics over Rick and Jessie. They have barely had a few minutes of airtime in the last two episodes yet some people are commenting as if they are having some grand romance taking up tons of airtime. I hope that Rick gets to at least have sex with her so all the complaining going on can finally match what is happening on the show.

I'm not in hysterics about it, but at the same time, "They have barely had a few minutes of airtime in the last two episodes" and yet Rick may be contemplating killing her husband. Pretty quick relationship trajectory.

[RustbeltWriter]

So Carol suspects Pete is abusing his wife and kid and decides the punishment for that is death. It's ridiculous that she just ignores the fact that they are trying to build a community in the ASZ and educated doctors are in short supply. This is a guy who can probably perform a c section if anyone gets pregnant and needs one or can tell someone what medicine is needed if they have an infection or knows how to treat serious diseases. Let's not try to rehabilitate this guy, let's just kill him. After all, porch dicks have no redeeming qualities.

[Pete Martell]

I don't get the hysterics over Rick and Jessie. They have barely had a few minutes of airtime in the last two episodes yet some people are commenting as if they are having some grand romance taking up tons of airtime. I hope that Rick gets to at least have sex with her so all the complaining going on can finally match what is happening on the show.

 

I don't get the skepticism from some people that Jessie is being abused. Everything from last night points to this. Pete refusing to let Carol see Jessie or Sam is a typical abuser tactic.

 

So what if we had Ed abusing Carol as a story early in the series. There is only one woman beater left in the Zombie Apocalypse? Rick and his people did not have to deal with Ed anyway so this is a new challenge for them. And of course, Rick is going to have to kill him, but I bet that he hems and haws because Pete is the only doctor and Jessie does want to be responsible for the death of the father of her kids, resulting in Pete killing Jessie first. Women are in the  most danger from violent abusers when they try to leave.

 

For me this is another example of the failing in Jessie's story. Endless scenes in this episode were about whether or not she was being abused and whether or not Rick should "save" her. Yet we're talking about how she and Rick need to hook up. Why? Because the show chose to push a romantic connection, one written in an odd, leering manner, before they delved into any of this about the danger she is supposed to be facing. If she is an abused woman, being terrorized day in and day out, why are we even thinking about whether she's going to get some? Why is this a major part of this story? 

 

Even if their actual scenes together were minimal, all the melodrama with Rick and Pete, and the melodrama with Rick and Carol, felt endless to me. I'm sure it wasn't, but it sure felt that way watching it, because the scenes lacked any real believable quality for me.

 

I would guess that when the woman in question is barely shown onscreen, and we instead see everyone talking about her and assuming things about her, it becomes more of a question, especially since Carol is obviously projecting many of her demons about Ed and about Sophia, Mika and Lizzie onto this family.

 

I doubt anyone believes only one woman can be abused. It's just that when one story is told from the POV of an abused woman, and is a defining part of her character from early on, and one story is about everyone but the woman, while she's standing around talking about owls, then there will be negative comparisons.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Pete Martell

[SimoneS]

I'm not in hysterics about it, but at the same time, "They have barely had a few minutes of airtime in the last two episodes" and yet Rick may be contemplating killing her husband. Pretty quick relationship trajectory.

 

Even when Rick put his hand on the gun, I never for a second thought that he was pulling a Shane. In fact, Rick is not Shane. He does not go around attempting to rape women or murder their husbands. Rick is being hypervigilant about everyone in Alexandria, not just Pete.

Edited March 16, 2015 by SimoneS

[GoldenHera]

Beg to differ. The scene with Carol and Sam ended with Carol trying to get the kid to tell her; but it was cut off suddenly. Who knows what happened before she went to Pete's doorstep.This damn dark magic wily arch Carol---you don't have a bias? You are "team Carol all the way?"

Look, here's one thing we know---the kid wanted a gun.

For his mother, for himself, to do something heroic, to do something evil---who knows?

But she asked to talk to Pete. She did not go tell Rick to kill him first thing.

I'd want to go see the father; and she asked to speak to the mother.

That's what I'd do if a child started acting squirrelly and angling for a weapon.

It was Pete at the door who acted even squirrellier. That was a tip-off.

Someone needs to talk about your son it's important but nah.

I'll play devil's advocate here. Pete has clearly been shown as two things 1. a lover of booze and 2. socially awkward. Acting squirrelly is not evidence that Pete is beating his wife and child. It is evidence, along with Sam asking for a gun, that something bad is happening in the Anderson household. Had Carol gone to Rick and said, 'Look something is up with that family, we need to investigate,' I would be 1000% Team Carol. But she didn't. She made a huge (and possibly dangerous) assumption based on her own experience. I don't fault her for it, after all she went through, the ghost of Ed will haunt her forever. But being the judge, jury and executioner of a man she's known for one week with flimsy circumstantial evidence, that's wrong.

 

Re: The Owl Sculpture: Harbinger of Society's Demise, I think we were all robbed of CDB's reaction when Rick explains that he spent the day interrogating ASZers looking for the culprit of a metal sculpture smashing. Could you imagine Sasha's face? Comedy gold.

 

But last night one person who was killed was indeed black, and one was white.

TWD's issue was that there seemed to be a black man quota. One black man would die and then another would be introduced, making it seem as though only one black man could be allowed on the series for an extended amount of time. It has never been an issue of how many different races are killed per episode. It's fine if you don't care, but some of us like to think critically about media.

Edited March 16, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Removed potentially offensive quoted sentence

[Boofish]

If Deanna believes Douche Bigalow over Glen she can be served at the Walker Buffet I hope CDB have next Sunday (buy one get one free; zombies with no arms half price after 5:00) It is obvious and clear that people who go out on runs and or for supplies have the fight or flight rule down to an exact science and clearly this either comes from their leader or is endorsed by the leader. This cannot be news to her. Abercrombie & Fitch have done runs before where they are the only ones to return; she cannot be that stupid. She has the interviews and tapes. She knows Rick's group fight and save their own. Eric and Aaron knows this as well. If she believes a word that comes out of his mouth then she can be next in line for a gut job right after Father Pee Pants

[that one guy]

QUOTE

I want Carol to take him out.  Desperately.

 

For dinner and a movie, or coffee and a movie? ;)

 

 

For drinks, obviously.

 

The good: a real exploration of when you go back for someone and when you give it up and save yourself in the apocalypse. When you're in a group, you take risks to save people. Otherwise they won't do it for you, and then there's not really a group and you're all dead. Abraham did this even though he knew he had a better than even chance of death, because he had a reasonable chance, Francine had a chance, and this is what you do. Plus, he was a soldier, and this is what soldiers are supposed to do.

Glenn, though - going back for Aiden was the mistake that got Noah killed, even before Nicholas(?) panicked. Dude was impaled and was likely going to die. When they thought he had already bit it, the right thing to do was to walk up to the body, and give him a headshot or a knife to the eye socket. Friends don't let friends turn. If they'd done it right, they would never even have known that the guy was alive.  Since they didn't do that and he ended up being alive, their next best option was a long distance head shot with the sniper rifle. Not that I'm excusing Nick, but the whole rescue was stupid, especially since they had another wounded member who likely would survive with medical attention. It's called triage, folks.

 

At first I didn't understand why Carol wants Rick to kill Pete, when I thought she was going to do it herself. Then I remembered he's actually a cop again. Calling the police is actually the right thing to do here, and that's what she did. Although killing him might be a bad idea. Isn't he the only doctor they have? It's a long way back to Grady Memorial, and I seem to remember that emergency room care is the most expensive kind of health care.

 

The bad: I really thought this show had gotten beyond the one black guy at a time thing. Earlier this season we had a randomly thrown together group with a variety of people of color. Which is important, because while the US population is only about 12.5% African American, the group is supposed to be from Georgia. A randomly thrown together group from Georgia is going to be more than 30% Black. We finally got to a more representative group of characters by adding Bob

(whom I understand is white in the comics? I haven't actually read them),

and Noah, who was invented just for TV. This was encouraging. But then they go and kill everybody. Now I don't want them to kill off FPP no matter how much I don't like him. If they kill him and then add another token Black man, I will scream at the TV. 

 

And apart from those concerns, I just liked Noah. He was smart without being all jaded and traumatized like some of our longtime group members. That might have been unrealistic after the death of his family, but it was refreshing.

Edited March 16, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Tagged potential comic spoiler.

[diebartdie]

I dont think the AZShats are "suddenly" incompetent, I think they are like most normal people, it's been tough however, they are beyond lucky in that they all ended up in one place with power, fresh water, sanitation, well stocked houses and a nearby construction site! Along the way they've lost plenty of people, it's been hard for them. Not as hard as it has been for out heroes but still, the ZA is a brutal world. I just dont think it's very fair for everyone to be thinking the AZSers got hit by the idiot stick 5 minutes before Rick showed up.

[Haleth]

I wouldn't mind Jessie if we'd see her interacting with someone other than Rick, proving she's a real character with a story to tell.  As it is she is either a damsel in distress whom Rick must save, or she is merely a big ol' Plot Device to further the storyline that Rick must take charge to save these people from themselves.

 

If Deanna believes Douche Bigalow over Glen she can be served at the Walker Buffet I hope CDB have next Sunday (buy one get one free; zombies with no arms half price after 5:00) It is obvious and clear that people who go out on runs and or for supplies have the fight or flight rule down to an exact science and clearly this either comes from their leader or is endorsed by the leader. This cannot be news to her. Abercrombie & Fitch have done runs before where they are the only ones to return; she cannot be that stupid. She has the interviews and tapes. She knows Rick's group fight and save their own. Eric and Aaron knows this as well. If she believes a word that comes out of his mouth then she can be next in line for a gut job right after Father Pee Pants

 

Bingo.  People were killed on runs before now and will continue to be killed in the future.  If she thinks having the CDB gang along on runs will prevent anyone else from becoming walker chow, she's living in a bigger fantasy than anyone realizes.  She can't blame Aiden's death on Glenn, no matter what story Nick comes up with.

[hoosiermommy]

I think that the idea that FPP will be believed relies upon the idea that everything was idyllic before CDB came to town and now everything is going to hell in a hand basket. But they have lost people before. They lost 4 on a supply run just a week or two ago. They keep alluding to the things they have lost, and for some of them, it was real, live family members (I assume those 4 had loved ones with them in the ASZ). So, the idyllic vibe pre-CDB is simply an illusion--or delusion. It isn't like welcoming CDB into the ASZ was the same thing as eating the forbidden fruit. Death was there already, albeit probably not at the same level that is likely about to happen.

And I am constantly wondering where the grief is for those who were lost on that supply run. Our guys have seen so much death, I can understand being numb to it all, compartmentalizing, or getting over it quickly, but is Alexandria so numbed by loss that no one grieves the loss of 4 members? If so, ASZ is even more suspicious with their happy little façade.

It must be really hard to keep your faith in a loving and merciful God in the ZA. I bet there are a lot more atheists in the ZA than there were before. Maybe Deanna is one of them, and therefore has little respect for the maniacal ravings of a man of the cloth.

And when those birds telegraphed the arrival of walkers at the construction site, I had a history geek moment thinking of the animals flushed out ahead of Stonewall Jackson's surprise flank attack at Chancellorsville. Anyone else make the connection? Just me? I was the only one history geeking out? Well, that happens often enough, you'd think I'd be used to it by now. :)

Edited March 16, 2015 by hoosiermommy

[Portia]

Looks like I'm in the minority here, but I'm absolutely infuriated by the Eugene "redemption" storyline. Too little too late. I know, I know, if Glenn hadn't saved Eugene then Eugene couldn't have saved Glenn, blahblahdeeblah, but I'm not buying it. Earlier in the episode, when Eugene was too stupid to defend himself and Glenn came to his rescue (because Glenn, unlike me, is a noble person), I literally screamed, "Noooo! Natural Selection!!!!" 

 

Also, Eugene, what part of "HEAD SHOT" do you not understand?

 

Let's see, what else? I'm sad about Noah--I had finally gotten really interested in him--and I'm really pulling for Tara because I've always found her oddly endearing. I'm a little disappointed that the Alexandria arc is moving so quickly. And finally--I know this is hokey, but I would like Tobin to see the error of his ways, become a member of CDB, and become a love interest for Carol.

[Pixiebomb]

I'm picking up a Private Maggott (Dirty Dozen) vibe from FFP. Religious insanity. Everyone is a sinner and God has appointed him to wipe them from the earth. I just hope one of CDB puts him down out before he goes all Telly Savalas and takes out too many of our guys.

[sidekickgirl]

I think Deanna will buy into FPP when she finds out her son became walker chow. She's already got a bit of buyers remorse on CDB, so it won't be a huge leap.

I'm still not seeing (or caring) about Jessie and Pete and Rick. I haven't really seen enough of anything to make me feel feelings about their relationships with each other.

[JBody]

I thought it was really neat how Constable Rick stopped by Mrs. Anderson’s place and talked to her about her vandalized owl sculpture.  Most police officers are too busy chasing criminals and stuff but Constable Rick takes the time to talk to the people on his beat.  I knew he would do a good job investigating who the culprit was because he said he didn’t have anything else to do that day.  And sure enough he reported later that day that he had asked around and no one saw anything!  Gosh.  Mrs. Anderson’s lucky Constable Rick is fond of her.  Like at the party the other day when he gave her that peck on the check like she was his dear old Auntie.  Maybe she reminds him of a family member he’s lost touch with, it’s hard to say, but she sure was good with Judith!  I wonder what other neat stuff will happen on Constable Rick’s beat next week?

Edited March 16, 2015 by JBody

[Mu Shu]

I expect Deanna to dismiss FPP as irrelevant. Which would be pretty accurate.

I'm just wondering what kind of shitstorm will erupt when the Nicholas/Glenn/Eugene he-said/he-said gets started.

I expect the same. She now knows about his owe pants ways, which include being disloyal to those who saved his ass. Deanna isn't an innocent, but I'm not sure what her angle is. FPP isn't even on her radar.

[JBody]

On another note, FPP Must. Die. Now.  He was talking about himself!!!  

[Portia]

Tara has a new crush! *cute*

I missed this. Who's Tara's new crush?

[NorthstarATL]

 

The bad: I really thought this show had gotten beyond the one black guy at a time thing. Earlier this season we had a randomly thrown together group with a variety of people of color. Which is important, because while the US population is only about 12.5% African American, the group is supposed to be from Georgia. A randomly thrown together group from Georgia is going to be more than 30% Black. We finally got to a more representative group of characters by adding Bob (whom I understand is white in the comics? I haven't actually read them), and Noah, who was invented just for TV. This was encouraging. But then they go and kill everybody. Now I don't want them to kill off FPP no matter how much I don't like him. If they kill him and then add another token Black man, I will scream at the TV. 

 

 

The group is not as randomly thrown together as you are implying, though. Even though there has been loss of family members, several of "our group" were/are related to each other. Also, citing statistics never tells the entire story. Even in majority-black Atlanta, most living situations and social groups tend toward self-segregation. assuming people tried to find loved ones and/or friends as the world seemed to be coming to an end, the surviving groups would tend to reflect that self-segregation. There are probably majority-black surviving groups that have no white members (or asians).

    As far as keeping Pete alive because he is a doctor, we have yet to see what Deanna has come up with as a "justice system". I kidded about it earlier, but, outside of the prison, which was kind of set up for such a thing, do they have a way to "incarcerate" someone? We previously had a similar dilemma on the farm , and Shane ended that before the group had to make a final move. The Alexandrians apparently have exiled people, and we've seen Carol banished. But there is no formal set-up so far as we know. Also, Carol's statement was more a statement of inevitability than a request or even really a judgment. Based upon her experience an abuser was not going to rehabilitated nor would he be OK with just staying away from  his family. Eventually something final will occur.