S01.E08: He Has A Wife

[PrincessTT]

If Michaela is so convinced that the marriage will be forever then she should have no issue signing the pre-nup, if she's right about the marriage then it will never come into play anyway. 

[LydiaMoon1]

I still say that this show has lot of dead weight.  It needs to cull the cast.  My choices:
Keep:
Annalise (of course)
Michaela
Nate
Conner (based solely on his antagonistic (but interesting) relationship with Michaela)
Cut:
Asher (so much effort, so little entertainment)
Lauren (boring)
Wes (idiotic)
Bonnie (incompetent)
Rebecca (unlikable)
Add:
Khan (Pretty and likable. Find a way to keep him)
Oliver (Pretty, likable, useful (computer hacker))
Elizabeth Perkins’ character from an earlier episode (Annalise could use a good female friendship.  Plus, her outrageousness could occasionally lighten the mood on this otherwise downer of a show)

[Eolivet]

After this episode, I'm now leaning towards none of the students having killed Sam, but they all came into the house and walked through blood (remember they said they could get Asher to walk through blood and make him a suspect). Rebecca is the only one with blood spatter, but she just seems too obvious a killer at this point (then again, that's how Shonda handled Scandal, and if Peter Nowalk is a Shonda disciple, maybe he also goes for the obvious culprit).

 

I actually now can't see any of these students covering for Annalise so much as they're covering for themselves. I thought it would be revealed that Annalise inspired a fierce devotion in these students, but I don't think that's the case. I think they'd all -- with the possible exception of "I'm a good person" Laurel -- run as fast as they could away from a murder and let Annalise hang.

 

And really, none of these students, save Wes and obviously Rebecca, have any motive to kill Sam. Which means I think they would've all fled the scene and saved their own necks, unless there was physical evidence linking them to the crime. So, they think if they all alibi each other, none of them can be suspects. And "no body, no case" means all they have to do is stick to their alibis, get rid of their bloody clothes and they're home free? At least in their minds?

 

Can't wait for next week -- I'm actually intrigued as to what the second half of the season will be: "How to Get Away with Getting Away with Murder?"

Edited November 14, 2014 by Eolivet

[rubyred]

This episode was firing on all cylinders, and did a great job of showing why each character ended up at the house/office that night, and their respectives states of mind, which, in general, were not good. Laurel is reeling from the Frank revelation (whatev), Mikaela just had a showdown with monster-in-law and lightfingered the trophy, Rebecca went back to plant the thumb drive on Sam's computer, Wes realized it and was chasing her, with Connor and Laurel along for the ride. Meanwhile Bonnie gets smarmed by Sam and fired by Annalise. Asher goes back because he realizes Mikaela stole the trophy, but he wasn't part of the action.

I don't think Sam's killer is Bonnie just because of the tight timeline...I guess she could have killed Sam and then hid and the others dealt with the body, and then called Asher for the hookup. But there hasn't been an indication with the Keating 4 that Bonnie was involved. Asher was on his way to the hookup when the Keating 4 saw him in the car, and Sam's body was already in the Oriental then (tm Prizzi's Honor).

I think it's actually harder to figure out who killed Lila...I mean Sam seems obvious, with Griffin second, but that would be a letdown. Surely there's more to this clusterfuck than those two clowns having motive. Is this where Wes comes in, in a bizarre, heretofore unexplained twist?

[betsyboo]

If Annaliese felt strongly enough that her husband could be the killer to call the police and suggest they swab all of Lila's professors, should she have TAUNTED him with it, turned her back on him and walked away?? If he's so violent he could kill a teenager because she got knocked up, he wouldn't have any problem killing his wife.

 

Sam is the new Fitz.

 

Show of hands - who found it believable that the poor-man's-Jon-Cryer husband actually scored the nanny?

 

I literally can't even watch the screen when Wes is on. I don't mean to be horribly judgemental to the actor (but i'm going to be) ---his  neck is so skinny and his head just floats on top of it - it makes me crazy. http://theupwardspiral.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/velocirraptor3.jpg

 I have two questions for the show:

How the hell has Rebecca, a strong contender for Most Obnoxious Person in the World, made it this far in life without being killed?

How the hell did Wes and Lila make it this far along in life, let alone being accepted to college/law school, given that they are both too dumb to live?

^^Seconded.

 

(ETA: because good grammar stops at nothing.)

Edited November 14, 2014 by betsyboo

[SimoneS]

If Michaela is so convinced that the marriage will be forever then she should have no issue signing the pre-nup, if she's right about the marriage then it will never come into play anyway. 

 

So says every wealthy man and his lawyer. Pre-nups are not straight forward by any stretch. Most pre-nups have clauses that allow husbands to divorce their wives with limited alimony and settlements. One of the most infamous cases was when the actress, Ellen Barkin's husband literally evicted her from their New York apartment before a 5 year clause in the pre-nup kicked in that would have substantially increased the alimony and settlement that she would receive if they divorced. No woman should sign a pre-nup without a lawyer reviewing the terms carefully and engaging in tough negotiations.

 

In any case, I find it outrageous that Aiden did not directly discuss the pre-nup with Michaela. What kind of man lets his mother take the lead tackling such a difficult issue with his fiance?  Marriage to him would be horrible. He is a weak coward. If I was Michaela, I would play hardball with the pre-nup, sign it, and then leave him standing at the altar. She really can do better.

Edited November 15, 2014 by SimoneS

[LydiaMoon1]

If Michaela is so convinced that the marriage will be forever then she should have no issue signing the pre-nup, if she's right about the marriage then it will never come into play anyway.

If you begin your marriage by preparing for the end, the marriage is likely doomed.

If your future husband refuses to defend you against his parents (esp. his mother), the marriage is likely doomed

If your relationship is built on lies of omission concerning past sexual relationship(s) (Aiden) and basic facts concerning your family origins (Michaela), the marriage is likely doomed.

[PrincessTT]

So says every wealthy man and his lawyer. Pre-nups are not straight forward by any stretch. Most pre-nups have clauses that allow husbands to divorce their wives with limited alimony and settlements. One of the most infamous cases was when the actress, Ellen Barkin's husband literally evicted her from their New York apartment before a 5 year clause in the pre-nup kicked in that would have substantially increased the alimony and settlement that she would receive if they divorced. No woman should sign a pre-nup without a lawyer reviewing the terms carefully and engaging in touch negotiations.

 

In any case, I find it outrageous that Aiden did not directly discuss the pre-nup with Michaela. What kind of man lets his mother take the lead tackling such a difficult issue with his fiance?  Marriage to him would be horrible. He is a weak coward. If I was Michaela, I would play hardball with the pre-nup, sign it, and then leave him standing at the altar. She really can do better.

 

I agree, and if Michaela had said that she would look over it with a lawyer then get back to her fiance/MIL then I would totally agree with her. 

Her assertion that a pre-nup wasn't needed because the marriage would last forever annoyed me though. 

 

If she has the pre-nup looked over by a lawyer then it can be worded in a way that protects both her and her fiance should the marriage end. 

Her straight up declaring that there would be no pre-nup does make it look like she's after the money. 

 

I also agree about the way that Aiden and his family have handled the pre-nup issue. 

It should have been a conversation that the 2 of them had together. 

 

I live in a country where pre-nups are not legally binding though so maybe Michaela should suggest a move over here to Aiden ;)

Edited November 14, 2014 by PrincessTT

[ShadowSixx]

As far as the pre-nup goes, really can't be mad at Michaela for refusing since she was blindsided with it. Nobody warned her ahead of time that was the reason she was going to a meeting. If she had been better prepared for it then she may not be so upset about it. Aidan didn't give her a heads up (don't know if he knew that's what his mother did) but him calling her when she was at Asher's is probably what he wanted to talk to her about. It's also insulting that the future mother-in-law is in my face forcing me to sign, Michaela has had no interaction with Aidan on the matter, it's outside forces being the lawyer and mother-in-law. No no no, not gonna be pressured into signing it that way.

 

LW in A Thin Line Between Love & Hate was psycho but flat out disgusting in Madea's Family Reunion when she let her boyfriend rape one of her daughters. 

 

Anyways as far as the trophy goes when Michaela approached Anni and said that she won the case and reason she deserves it, Anni basically said that she didn't care whether her or Asher held the trophy. Since she won the case Michaela felt she deserved it. 

[Suzysite]

 

Sam is a lying liar who lies.

Sam has always given me a Bill Clinton-esque vibe.  Maybe it's the nose, or maybe it's that plus the womanizing, but either way all I see is Bill.

[Beebee111]

 

I still say that this show has lot of dead weight.  It needs to cull the cast.  My choices:

Keep:

Annalise (of course)

Michaela

Nate

Conner (based solely on his antagonistic (but interesting) relationship with Michaela)

Cut:

Asher (so much effort, so little entertainment)

Lauren (boring)

Wes (idiotic)

Bonnie (incompetent)

Rebecca (unlikable)

Add:

Khan (Pretty and likable. Find a way to keep him)

Oliver (Pretty, likable, useful (computer hacker))

Elizabeth Perkins’ character from an earlier episode (Annalise could use a good female friendship.  Plus, her outrageousness could occasionally lighten the mood on this otherwise downer of a show)

 

No, not my Bonnie. I love her messed up, complexity and I am looking forward to getting to know the background of her relationship with Annalise.

 

Asher - he provides some well needed moments of levity in a show that is often very dark.

 

Wes - could go, but only after we figure out his story.

 

Rebecca - every show needs a few characters to dislike. I think she would have to go after a season or so though to keep the story fresh - but her work is not yet done.

Oliver - I really could see more of him :).

Edited November 14, 2014 by Beebee111

[LydiaMoon1]

They're trying to use Asher as the character that lightens things up.  Problem is, the guy playing him is just trying sooo hard.  I can SEE him ACTING.  Takes me right out of every scene he's in.

[futurechemist]

Well I'm lost.  I have no idea what's going on or what pretty much any character's motivation is.

 

Why did Annalise fire Bonnie when she was honest about Sam?

Why are Wes and Rebecca paranoid about the phone, when Annalise is Rebecca's lawyer, legally and ethically required to zealously defend only Rebecca's interests?  If Rebecca is worried about Annalise's conflict of interest, fire her and choose a different lawyer.

Whose side is Nate on?  Or is he still trying to serve justice, rather than anyone in particular?

What's the point of earning the trophy if someone else can just "earn" it after you and effectively steal it?

How are legal outlines different from any other notes, and why are they so precious?  The students seem obsessed with finding other people's outlines.  Can't they just write their own damn notes?  Then again, I'm in education, but for a subject that doesn't focus on rote memorization.

(more lighthearted, but it was bugging me) Why can't anyone on the show pronounce "tinidazole" correctly? (tih-NID-uh-zohl, not tih-nih-DAZZLE)

[Julie23]

So all the chess pieces are moving into place for the big murder-bonfire night. What seemed odd and out of place in the flashbacks is now making sense.

Why was Asher not with the others? He was "having a party", but it seems only Bonnie showed up.

Bonnie was invited by Asher to his party, but was not interested until Annalise fired her.

How did everyone else end up at the law house together? Connor, Wes and Laurel were supposed to have a study group at Wes's place, but when he realized Rebecca was going to try to get data off of Sam's phone for Nate, they all followed him to the law house.

Michaela stole the trophy from Asher and was for some unknown reason at this time, going back to the law house

Where someone killed Sam - with the trophy - so Michaela made it there and possibly hit Sam who was attacking Rebecca

Only open question is why was Annalise not there? She later called Bonnie to ask where Sam was, so she clearly did not know what happened to him.

[caracas1914]

I thought Michaela's future mother in law (doubtful now ) had an agenda other than just having her signing the pre nup.  It seemed she's intent to break that engagement up and the pre-nup was just a pretext to spew bile Michaela's way.    It just seems silly that no one would expect a top notch law student wouldn't take their time to sing a pre-nup and maybe negotiate some of her own terms and conditions. 

[Chrissytd]

If Rebecca is worried about Annalise's conflict of interest, fire her and choose a different lawyer.

Would she have the money to hire another lawyer?

(more lighthearted, but it was bugging me) Why can't anyone on the show pronounce "tinidazole" correctly? (tih-NID-uh-zohl, not tih-nih-DAZZLE)

That's what they were saying!? It sounded like titdazzle to me.

Why was Asher not with the others? He was "having a party", but it seems only Bonnie showed up.

They were burning the body, and setting up an alibi.

[lorikauai]

I was so happy to not have any flashbacks of the bumbling conspirators destroying evidence and burning the body that I can excuse any other flaws in this episode.

Bonnie groveling on the floor begging Annalise for forgiveness was intense. I also thought She might be in love with her boss. I sort of wonder if part of her job was to keep tabs on Sam and even distract him/provide him with sex to keep him away from other girls.

I agree that Wes is very suspicious. He just happened to get into Annalise's class off the wait list and move in next door to Rebecca following Lila's disappearance? I don't trust him.

Assuming that Sam was hit with the trophy Michaela must have been present at the murder. I could see Rebecca confronting Sam and Wes and the study group going after her. Where is Annalise? Shouldn't she have been in the house too?

[coloradoqt]

 

In any case, I find it outrageous that Aiden did not directly discuss the pre-nup with Michaela. What kind of man lets his mother take the lead tackling such a difficult issue with his fiance?

It's not unusual and it's usually out of the wealthy heir hands when it comes to family money. Mother makes the rules and pre-nups. Wealthy heir abides by those rules if he expects to get wealthier. If  Michaela doesn't  sign the pre-nup  or anything else Mother deem necessary she will just end up Aiden's friend or worse his mistress.  

[bantering]

Knowing that Aiden (Michaela's) fiancé slept with Connor, I wouldn't sign that pre-nup either. I don't care what Michaela's motives are (whether for love or money), but since he omitted that info from her, I don't think it's so bad to make sure she makes good on her promise to destroy him if he's lying to her about his sexuality and winds up humiliating her publicly.  If he's not lying, then he shouldn't have anything to worry about anymore than he should about her taking his money if she truly loves him, if the latter is the logic divorce pre-nup preparers go by.  So, uh, yeah, if your boyfriend had a gay fling when he was younger that he did not disclose to you and you're not 100 percent certain about his sexuality, then my advice to you would be to certainly NOT SIGN THAT PRE-NUP!

 

The two characters I disliked the most at the start of the season were Asher and Bonnie. Now, they're the two characters I like the most. What a turn-around!

 

I was a little surprised to see that Frank's girlfriend looks younger than Laurel.

 

Rebecca does talk too fast, but I don't think she handles it well like the characters on other Shonda shows do. Why is she so much prettier as a drug dealer??

 

The musical score and soundtrack to this show is pretty good. It makes the show more exciting to watch.

Edited November 14, 2014 by bantering

[helenamonster]

As for the support of the theft of the trophy, how is that a hell yeah moment? The trophy is supposedly rewarded by Annalise to the student who she feels has earned it and it can be used as a pass on a test without penalty. The winning of the trophy is point for bragging for Annalise's students. Having stole the trophy, Michaela can not display it, she cannot brag on it, nor can she use it to be exempt from the test since Annalise knows it was never given to her. So what exactly is she going to do wih it, rub it and call it The Precious?

 

But Annalise made it explicitly clear to Michaela that she doesn't give one ounce of a fuck who has the trophy anymore. At this point (and especially with her trifling husband in his last hours of living), Michaela, Asher, or the kid who sits in the back and watches Netflix every class could present her with the trophy at the exam and she'd just shrug and give them the A.

 

There is nothing wrong with a prenup, however Michaela's mother in law acted like she at a bowl of bitch before speaking to Michaela.  I'd be pretty upset if anybody who spoke to me in that tone.  So what Michaela didn't come from money.  I'm sure mother in law wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth either, as she said they started with one store and now are multinational.

 

It's interesting how Michaela and Aiden's mother are cut from the same cloth. Even though Aiden's mother, along with her husband, built herself from the ground up, I wonder if she sees a little of herself in Michaela and knows to watch out for her "type." I hope we see more of her.

 

Also, I figured out where I'd seen the actress before (thank you, Tumblr!). She was Galleria's (Raven-Symone) mother in Cheetah Girls. She didn't take any shit in that movie either.

 

If Annaliese felt strongly enough that her husband could be the killer to call the police and suggest they swab all of Lila's professors, should she have TAUNTED him with it, turned her back on him and walked away?? If he's so violent he could kill a teenager because she got knocked up, he wouldn't have any problem killing his wife.

 

Well, when your wife ends up dead, you're usually the #1 suspect. Some random sorority girl that you have no obvious connection to? Easier to get away with.

 

It's weird how Frank and Laurel are such an afterthought. Like, what is the point of them? They both lift right out (which kind of bothers me because I like Laurel on her own; Frank can go though).

 

I felt like we learned something very important about Annalise this episode: she doesn't care about actually being a lawyer, but just enjoys the prestige that comes with her position. She's good at all the more glamorous parts of lawyering...well, television lawyering. She can read people for filth on the witness stand and seems to have a very intuitive sense of intelligence when it comes to people and the law. But she doesn't want to do the dirty work, so she leaves it to Bonnie, Frank, and her interns. And then when they don't come through for her, she goes on a rampage. They are responsible for making her look good. And probably the reason she's cracking up is because this image that she's had others create for her is beginning to crumble. She's getting blindsided in court, and her personal life is falling apart. Not only is her perfect-on-paper husband a philandering manipulator, but she also hasn't been able to carry a child to term. I'm beginning to wonder if she ever actually wanted to be a mother, or just wanted to live up to some sort of societal expectation. It seems like she feels she has to be a mother on top of her high-profile career. We've never seen her be particularly maternal, and the show hasn't given her an opportunity to be so (whether that's intentional or not, idk). She wants it all: perfect job, perfect family, perfect reputation, but she doesn't want to put in any of the grunt work to make it happen (I realize that her not being able to carry a baby to term is not her fault). Hell, she expects Sam to be faithful when in the very first episode we saw her being serviced by Nate! It's everyone else's job to keep her image pristine and not fuck around on her, but she can do as she damn well pleases. Does this make for a rootable character? No. An interesting character? Yes.

[TVHappy9463]

I love this show.  It reminds me of Scandal season 1. And Viola Davis is the balls.  I think she has been one step of everyone the entire time. she got wes off the wait list and has been setting him up to kill Sam, and I wouldn't be surprised if she and Rebecca were in on it.  

[FullTilt]

I've been reading this site for months and finally decided to speak up.  I love this show as well, especially since they quit shooting parts of it in the dark.  As far as Sam's murder is concerned, it looks like Asher and Bonnie are out, Rebecca and the 4 other interns are too obvious.  Where was Annalise supposed to be when this murder took place?  She was certainly at the house the last we saw. However, given her horrified reaction upon finding the blood a few episodes ago, she seems like an unlikely suspect. I can hardly wait for next week to get some of these questions answered.  I'll be fit to be tied if they leave this all hanging fire over the hiatus.  (BTW, what brainiac decided this concept of a two-month hiatus at this time of the year was a good one?)  Could Nate have possibly murdered Sam?  There just seems to be a few pieces missing to this puzzle.  See you all next week!

[SimoneS]

 Could Nate have possibly murdered Sam?  There just seems to be a few pieces missing to this puzzle.  See you all next week!

 

Great minds!? I was just about to post my speculation that Nate murdered Sam. Maybe he and Rebecca were scheming at the house when Sam found them or Sam attacked Rebecca when she was looking for evidence so Nate killed him.

Edited November 15, 2014 by SimoneS

[rubyred]

I agree, helenamonster, I don't think Annalise really wanted to be a mother, but she wanted to be the wife who gave Sam kids. Like, in her super-competitiveness she not only "stole" a woman's husband but she was going to be the bestest wife on all fronts, personally and careerwise.

 

That's a theory, anyway. Viola tends to give subtext to practically everything, and I've come to the point where I almost never know when she's being honest. She has used her infertility several times as a "woe is me" tactic for manipulation, but it's hard to tell, because she's so guarded, how much she actually cares about not having kids. She has seemed vulnerable with Nate, which is a WTF because yeah, she's cheating on the husband that she "needs/loves."

 

One other thing. I had to laugh when someone pointed out that Laurel had been crying. Not only did her face not register any emotion (as usual), the lighting made it hard to see the tears. They should have done the runny mascara trick.

 

I'm a little bugged about the Wes issue, because we've been assuming he had hidden depths but 1) what if he doesn't?!?!! and 2) I hate when mysteries pull rabbits out of hats with info the audience couldn't possibly have. Pet peeve.

[Seelouis]

If Annalise told the class they can't discuss the lila stangard case since she is representing the defendant, why is it ok for her to discuss the case of the week in class ?

[AyeshaTheGreat]

Ya'll, I've been afraid of Lynn Whitfield since A Thin Line Between Love & Hate.  Any woman who can beat herself up with a stocking filled with oranges is NOT a woman you mess with. You gotta be faster with your pimp hand next time, Michaela.

 

Aidan's family must be paying for bespoke Vera Wang. Michaela's frontin', non-money having ass had me fooled.

It's funny you mention the movie because as Michaela is trying to slap her, I immediately stated that the young girl must not have seen A Thin Line.  I enjoy seeing Lynn Whitfield and A Thin LIne is probably the role I associate her with the most.

[truthaboutluv]

I actually associate her most with her role as Josephine Baker which she won an Emmy for. 

[helenamonster]

(BTW, what brainiac decided this concept of a two-month hiatus at this time of the year was a good one?)

 

I'm actually kind of happy this is where they decided to put it. But I'm a college student. Post-Thanksgiving, pre-Christmas is finals time, and with this show off the air I'll have one less thing to distract me from my work.

[Hava]

So the show is focusing on "Who Killed Sam" as the central mystery. So is it a given that Sam killed Lila? Seems like it. 

[Chas411]

Frank has a girlfriend... God I couldn't care less about him or Laurel the dullard. Did she break up with Khan? He wasn't mentioned.

[mikem]

 

Quote

    - My impression was that Annelise knew that Wes was going to tell Rebecca that Lila was pregnant.  I didn't understand what Annelise thought Rebecca was going to do with that information.  Why did she want Rebecca to know?

    

 

I think that's one of those things that will be revealed later.

 

Quote

    - Was Rebecca really just looking for her gloves when she came to the house, or was she there for another reason?

    

 

No, it was an excuse for her to try and get something of Sam's for Nate that could be used to test his DNA, so they would know if he was the father of Lila's baby.

 

Quote

    - If Frank has a girlfriend, why did Bonnie tell Laurel not to get involved with him because Laurel would hurt Frank?  Bonnie seemed to be genuine in that scene.

    

 

That I can't explain but the whole Frank and Laurel deal has been a bit of a clusterfuck.

 

Quote

    - If the husband got the STD 3 months earlier than the son did, does that mean that the husband got the STD, treated it but didn't tell the nanny and also stopped sleeping with her (because otherwise he'd get it again)?

    

 

He might not have told her and I guess he was just more careful when sleeping with her. The key point though was that when the son came to him with the same symptoms and he realized what he had, he figured out the nanny was sleeping the kid too and snapped because he probably figured she was all his and probably loved the idea of his clueless, oblivious wife and his hot mistress all existing under the same roof.

 

truthaboutluv, thanks for answering all of my questions!  I had forgotten about the part where Rebecca was supposed to look for Sam's DNA. 

 

I'm not crazy about the winter break for the show, but at least it seems like things are happening.  The show started out with very little movement in the who-killed-Lila-and-Sam subplots each week, but things were chugging along this week and hopefully will next week as well.  I agree with those who don't understand why the Four don't just go to the police, particularly after the policeman caught them carrying the carpet out in the earlier episode, at which time they could easily have given up the coverup and gone to the police.  Even if Annelise killed Sam, they don't seem to have that kind of loyalty towards her  (or anyone).  They certainly don't have any loyalty to each other or to Rebecca.

 

I'm personally betting that Annelise killed Sam (it will have been justified, of course, since she show wants Viola Davis back next season), and her phone call to Bonnie of "where is he?" was part of her establishing an alibi.  None of the flashbacks have shown any of Annelise's actions around the time of Sam's murder except for that phone call.

Edited November 15, 2014 by mikem

[shapeshifter]

...I too cannot get totally behind Annie because of her banging the cop.

And yet without that, she would come across as kind of pathetic.

regarding dancing Asher ("Dasher"? I mean, "'Tis the season...")

previously.tv/how-to-get-away-with-murder/dead-girls-tell-no-useful-tales/ :

...I'll attempt to love him through the schlock, but my fandom is not a renewable resource....

Maybe not, but this line is absolutely a renewable resource for TV characters of all genres. Edited November 15, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Ms Blue Jay]

Annie banging the cop is the best thing about the show!  I'm obsessed with Nate...

[Chicago Redshirt]

Well I'm lost.  I have no idea what's going on or what pretty much any character's motivation is.

 

Why did Annalise fire Bonnie when she was honest about Sam?

Why are Wes and Rebecca paranoid about the phone, when Annalise is Rebecca's lawyer, legally and ethically required to zealously defend only Rebecca's interests?  If Rebecca is worried about Annalise's conflict of interest, fire her and choose a different lawyer.

Whose side is Nate on?  Or is he still trying to serve justice, rather than anyone in particular?

What's the point of earning the trophy if someone else can just "earn" it after you and effectively steal it?

How are legal outlines different from any other notes, and why are they so precious?  The students seem obsessed with finding other people's outlines.  Can't they just write their own damn notes?  Then again, I'm in education, but for a subject that doesn't focus on rote memorization.

(more lighthearted, but it was bugging me) Why can't anyone on the show pronounce "tinidazole" correctly? (tih-NID-uh-zohl, not tih-nih-DAZZLE)

 

1. Annalise may have fired Bonnie because Bonnie withheld pretty key information from her. (The person their client is accused of killing came to Annie and Sam's house shortly before her disappearance wanting to talk to Annie about her husband.) Knowing that info might have not only changed how Annie would have defended Rebecca but also how she reacted to Sam personally and professionally. She may have fired Bonnie because of jealousy/envy over Sam trying to manipulate Bonnie because of perceived affection for her. She may have fired Bonnie just because she's feeling like lashing out. She may have fired Bonnie because Bonnie has basically been dead weight. (In now 8 episodes, what has she contributed to help Annie win? Nothing comes to my mind.)

 

2. There is an obvious conflict of interest between Rebecca and Sam. There is no telling necessarily that Annie would not throw Rebecca under the bus to protect Sam if it came down to it. Sam is, after all, her husband. Even though Wes knows that she has cheated on Sam, there is presumably something between them. And Annie has shown herself to not particularly care about scruples or rules when it comes to getting what she wants. She's planted evidence, broken gag rules, encouraged her students to trade sex for info and break whatever rules might stand in their way. As to why Rebecca doesn't just fire Annie because of the conflict, that doesn't really help much. First of all, Rebecca is not going to find a better legal team at this stage of the game. She can't afford one and of course, Annie is being depicted as all-world, undefeated, etc. Second, if Annie decides to want to screw Rebecca over in favor of Sam, being fired as her lawyer isn't going to necessarily stop her. At least by keeping Annie on as her lawyer, Rebecca and Wes have some inkling as to what Annie is up to.

 

3. Your guess as is good as anyone's (or at least, mine) as to what Nate's motivation(s) are. To win Annie? To get revenge against Annie? To win his job back? Just the interest of justice? Spite towards Sam? Because he's Lila's killer?

 

4. The trophy's the dumbest thing ever. I'm not sure if Annie really means that she doesn't care about who has it or if she just was fed up with things being out of control and she just told Michaela whatever. I have to assume that you can't really just steal the trophy and have it have full effect.

 

5. In law school, outlines are a key study tool. The idea is that you sum up the key points from all the cases/concepts from the semester in an easy-to-follow form. Some professors will let you use the outlines themselves while taking the exam. So having a good outline is something that students can cling to because there's so much uncertainty as to where you might stand. Most law schools grade classes -- especially first year classes -- on a curve. And they are usually based on one end-of-semester exam. People do pass down outlines from year to year, and the notion that you're using an A student's outline gives people a little extra confidence that they will thus be studying the right stuff and then be in a better position to get an A.  Many of my law professors insisted -- I think correctly -- that the actual learning process comes from formulating your own outline rather than just copying someone else's. But that probably hasn't stopped any law student from trying to take the shortcut of getting either a commercial outline or the outline of a student who previously had a specific professor for a given subject. Similarly, getting a copy of an exam -- or several exams -- that a specific professor used before helps because it gives you a sense of what kinds of questions the professor might ask. (One professor can teach a given subject very differently from another professor, be interested in different things and grade very differently.) And it lets you practice writing the kind of answers they might be looking for. Oftentimes, the professor will make available model answers, or review answers to the old exams during office hours. And hypothetically, law school classes aren't entirely about rote memorization, but applying legal reasoning to facts and then reaching a conclusion.

[RedheadZombie]

I love this show!  I was so sad when it ended.  I freaking love it.  Suddenly Bonnie is an actual character and I don't dislike her anymore!

 

I actually said - finally a character I can like.

 

 

 

So am I wrong in thinking Bonnie never really was in love with Sam this whole time. She was playing him for Annalise's sake. She sure looked pathetic on her knees crying and begging to Annalise. Is she in love with Annalise? What kind of hold does this woman have on her?

 

Maybe Bonnie had either no mother, or a cold distant mother, so she kills herself to get Annalise's approval.  In that crying scene, she looked so much prettier than when she's got full makeup.  I thought she looked a lot like Gwyneth Paltrow without makeup.

 

Who she seemed really in love with at one point.  So, I don't know why she's also acting so crushed about Sam's affair.

 

Sam doesn't know about the cop, right? I can't remember, but I'm assuming no otherwise he would have thrown it back in her face by now.

 

I cannot describe how irritated I am at Annalise's continuing whining about Sam cheating.  She would still be banging that cop if she hadn't betrayed him and been dumped.  I guess it's possible we're supposed to believe that it was Annalise's distress from infertility that drove her to Nate.  A less maternal woman I've never seen.

 

Michaela should have told future mother-in-law that she'd look over the prenup with her lawyer and get back to her later.  I can understand wanting her to sign a prenup, if the parents started a business.  Sure you say you're in love in the beginning but life happens, look at Anna and Sam.  

 

I didn't feel sorry for Micaela.  I think she is very mercenary.  I've no doubt she chose her fiancé for his money, social status, and political aspirations.  The blow up over the pre-nup seemed over the top.  I also didn't find the theft of the trophy funny - I thought it was deliberately building tension.  And it sure seemed to me that Micaela is going to be the one who killed Sam with that trophy.  It would explain why she was the most freaked out.

 

I don't understand what good DNA from Sam will do in determining paternity.  Does Nate somehow have material from the fetus to compare too?

 

Rebecca has a great head of hair.

[JenE4]

I always assumed that Annaliese is the murderer since she's the expert on How to Get Away with Murder and these kids will do anything she says to clean up after her/protect her. But now I'm thinking that she might not have been the one to bash Sam's skull in, but she at least set up the chain of events for it to happen: telling Wes about the pregnancy knowing that he would tell Rebecca; telling Sam that the police will be going for his DNA, which means he might attack Rebecca for "causing" this and then Wes or Annaliese or someone has to protect Rebecca from Sam (and that's why she's sprayed with his blood). At first I was thinking that it was an accident, but now I really think Annaliese set this up to "Get Away with Murder." I read the best theory on Huffington Post--that Annaliese was going to murder Sam so she fired Bonnie to give Bonnie an alibi to not be there. That makes sense to me because otherwise Bonnie is there 24/7, so she needs some clear reason to NOT be there. The theory on Huff Po also said that Bonnie knows Annaliese well enough that she knew what Annaliese was doing just by looking in her eyes and that's why she left. So i'm adding that to my theory that even if Annaliese didn't bash Sam herself, she set the entire Murder up as How to Get Away With it.

[truthaboutluv]

I can definitely see that theory as I already believe the next season will be her getting all of them off for Sam's murder and more importantly, I have always believed that Annalise more so than Wes (though he's still shady and annoying to me) is the unreliable narrator in that we may not be sure what is and isn't the truth with her in any of her scenes, be it with Sam, Wes, Nate, etc. 

[VCRTracking]

 

I love this show!  I was so sad when it ended.  I freaking love it.  Suddenly Bonnie is an actual character and I don't dislike her anymore!

 

That was true for me of Liza Well's previous well known character Paris Gellar on Gilmore Girls. I hated her until I loved her!

[Tiger]

I've been thinking this morning that every single character except Wes has now been revealed to be different than they originally presented themselves to varying degrees.

Annalise isn't the all powerful professor. Michaela isn't rich. Connor isn't confident. Etc.

So something definitely has to up with Wes. He can't be the only character that actually is who they initially presented themselves as.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Tiger

[rubinia]

 

In any case, I find it outrageous that Aiden did not directly discuss the pre-nup with Michaela. What kind of man lets his mother take the lead tackling such a difficult issue with his fiance?  Marriage to him would be horrible. He is a weak coward.

THIS. I was like...where the fuck is her fiance? If my fiance made me meet with his insult-slinging mother ALONE I'd have no problem not signing the pre-nup...because there would be no goddamn wedding.

[Joimiaroxeu]

If you begin your marriage by preparing for the end, the marriage is likely doomed.

I dunno, I see prenups as being like car insurance. Do you buy car insurance because you expect to get into accident? (Well, other than it being legally required, that is.) No, you get it just in case. Prenups are just in case, IMO.

 

So, uh, yeah, if your boyfriend had a gay fling when he was younger that he did not disclose to you and you're not 100 percent certain about his sexuality, then my advice to you would be to certainly NOT SIGN THAT PRE-NUP!

Or not marry the guy to begin with. I think his possibly being gay was too interesting a plot point to drop in for no reason, especially since the fling was with someone Michaela knows and who doesn't mind bragging about it. My guess is Michaela will use that bit of into to shut her future MIL down. There will probably still be a prenup but it may be negotiated to be more favorable to Michaela, i.e., if she ever discovers Aiden having another gay fling the family will pay her generously for a quiet divorce. Of course, this all assumes his family (or at least mommy dearest) doesn't already know Aiden might be on the DL.

[ToukieSmith]

I think there is a reason that Annalise chose Wes and Wes mentioned his mother.  His mother committed suicide and I have made a mental leap that the suicide had something to do with Sam.  At first I thought Wes' mother could be Sam's ex-wife, but she does not necessarily have to be considering his philandering ways.  I can see Wes killing Sam to avenge his mother's suicide.  Of course, its incredibly convenient for Wes to be selected by Annalise so I have not figured out why she picked him in the first place.

 

 

Many of my law professors insisted -- I think correctly -- that the actual learning process comes from formulating your own outline rather than just copying someone else's. But that probably hasn't stopped any law student from trying to take the shortcut of getting either a commercial outline or the outline of a student who previously had a specific professor for a given subject. Similarly, getting a copy of an exam -- or several exams -- that a specific professor used before helps because it gives you a sense of what kinds of questions the professor might ask. (One professor can teach a given subject very differently from another professor, be interested in different things and grade very differently.) And it lets you practice writing the kind of answers they might be looking for. Oftentimes, the professor will make available model answers, or review answers to the old exams during office hours. And hypothetically, law school classes aren't entirely about rote memorization, but applying legal reasoning to facts and then reaching a conclusion.

I agree with your professors.  Someone's outline has never helped me become expert in the material which goes beyond answering test questions correctly.  To become an expert, I have had to create my own outlines that focus on the way I think and recall information.

[Haleth]

Holy moly, the actress who played Lila was bad. She should only play corpses.

I think Princess Michaela was idiot for not signing the prenup. She's not from money, he is, of course his family is going to protect their assets. As a future attorney she should understand that without taking offense. Or if not sign outright, at least say she was going to take it to her own attorney to ensure her own rights were protected. But trying to slap your future MIL is never a good response.

It's sure looking like Bonnie killed Lila and Rebecca killed Sam. I hope they all (Anna, Wes, Rebecca, Frank, Conner, Michaela, Laurel, Bonnie) go to jail and leave only Asher saying, "What? Who? Can I have the trophy now?"

Edited November 16, 2014 by Haleth

[KaveDweller]

So the show is focusing on "Who Killed Sam" as the central mystery. So is it a given that Sam killed Lila? Seems like it.

 

Well, they keep talking about how we're going to find out who killed Sam.  So, I'm guessing we just don't find out about Lila until the second half of the year, not that Sam definitely did it.  Because if we find out Sam definitely killed Llia next week, then wouldn't they be promoting that too?

 

..I too cannot get totally behind Annie because of her banging the cop.

And yet without that, she would come across as kind of pathetic.

 

She already comes across as kind of pathetic...

[shapeshifter]

...I hope they all (Anna, Wes, Rebecca, Frank, Conner, Michaela, Laurel, Bonnie) go to jail and leave only Asher saying, "What? Who? Can I have the trophy now?"

Hah! I'm rarely in favor of locking people up, but I would happy to see them stand trial "...leav[ing] only Asher saying, 'What? Who? Can I have the trophy now?'"

Do we know where the frickin' trophy came from or was manufactured? Game of Clue Weapons Inc.?

[FullTilt]

For the poster upthread who asked why Nate would need Sam's DNA and what he would compare it to, I would assume the Medical Examiner's office  has the fetus Lila was carrying.  Even though Nate is no longer a cop, I'm sure he has friends in the ME's office who might still help him out by getting him a tissue sample from the fetus  to compare with Sam's DNA. That could be done at an independent lab.  Still not sure how this helps Nate unless he just wants to nail Sam to the barn door, but it seems like a possibility.  Maybe it's while he and Rebecca are trying to get the hair sample or whatever that Sam comes in and attacks Rebecca, and Nate kills him.  Honestly, why they would all participate in this coverup?  I still don't understand.

[some1105]

Based on this episode, I think Annelise killed Lila, and has been planning to set up Sam for it all along.  I think she's known every single thing that has been "revealed" to her throughout the season so far all along, and has been moving everyone around like chess pieces to have them discover the various elements that would ultimately crucify Sam and lay them at her feet.  

 

I think things go very wrong and Sam ends up dead, and that in seasons going forward, those left alive all have something on the others, and the drama will unfold from there.  Otherwise, none of them has any reason to have anything to do with each other once the semester or year (the class/internship) is over.  Once the Keating 5 get their grades/work experience, why keep doing Annelise's dirty work unless she has them for covering up Sam's murder?  Assuming Annelise herself doesn't kill Sam, why would she keep them around unless they have explosive dirt on her?  Even having suspended my disbelief for weeks that any of Annelise's students or employees would keep compromising themselves for her given her almost entire unpleasantness, there has to be something on the order of Mutually Assured Destruction going on for the situation to continue to support a multi-season show.

[WalrusGirl]

It occurred to me that the phone call could be Annalise setting up her story for when the cops start questioning friends and family about Sam's disappearance/murder.

Ah, good point. I wouldn't have thought Bonnie was logical for that kind of call at the time (of course her employee might cover for her; stage a call for some reason to someone else!), but now that she fired Bonnie anything she says in Annalise's defense is more reliable. Though I am expecting a twist regardless, but that's from watching Scandal.

If Michaela is so convinced that the marriage will be forever then she should have no issue signing the pre-nup, if she's right about the marriage then it will never come into play anyway.

In general, agreed. She should get her own attorney to negotiate a bit (in particular a clause with a much more generous payout if he cheats with a man - or in general, if we're being equal about it - given she gave him that out already and he assured her he wasn't gay), but that argument that "this is forever" cuts both ways. I get her refusal on the principle of being blindsided and her fiancé not even being involved (even if he isn't the one who wants it he shouldn't knowingly let his mother/parents blindside her), but "this marriage will last forever" cuts both ways as an argument. She should absolutely get her own lawyer and negotiate good terms that "she'll never need," and can do so while acknowledging that, yeah, she isn't entitled to half of his parents' multinational fortune/company.

I actually now can't see any of these students covering for Annalise so much as they're covering for themselves. I thought it would be revealed that Annalise inspired a fierce devotion in these students, but I don't think that's the case. I think they'd all -- with the possible exception of "I'm a good person" Laurel -- run as fast as they could away from a murder and let Annalise hang.

You know, I think you're right. I'd been assuming the same - that, if they weren't covering for Annalise directly, they'd believe they were in some way - but now I certainly don't see Wes as that ringleader, and the others don't have any altruistic reason to cover for blood-splattered Rebecca.

If Rebecca is worried about Annalise's conflict of interest, fire her and choose a different lawyer.

I briefly thought the same, but without her own financial means she's going to end up with an overworked public defender when she already confessed on tape. Which is why she decided she's better off with the woman whose husband makes for a massive conflict of interest. So long as Annalise even goes through the motions of working in Rebecca's interests - which she generally is, albeit in sketchy ways with the phone - she probably figures she's better off with Annalise.

(BTW, what brainiac decided this concept of a two-month hiatus at this time of the year was a good one?

I think the ratings tend to drop over the winter holidays anyway, so some of the episodes would be reruns or pre-empted for specials anyway. And mixing up old episodes with the new really doesn't work great with highly-serialized shows - I'm really glad ABC started running some without repeat interruptions, even though it means a longer break between episodes. And the winter holidays through January makes sense, since December ratings would be inconsistent and it lets them re-launch for February sweeps (if Nov/Feb/May ratings periods still matter as much).

Can't wait for next week!

[nutty1]

I think someone walked in on Sam hurting Rebecca and killed him. My guess is Wes or Bonnie.

 

Did Bonnie stay at Annalease's 24/7? In work clothes and makeup, ready to go? That's the oddest setup, the way people just come and go there.

[shapeshifter]

Assuming Bonnie leaves and doesn't come back as Annalise ordered in this episode, Bonnie would be around to murder him--but that's "assuming."