Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, RunningMarket said:

THANK YOU Claire for pointing out (again) that Ben is a serial killer and no one seems to care. The anvils are too obvious that it's Claire behind the hijinx, but was that a smirk on her face when she overheard Belle and Shawn talking?

I would say the anvils are there that Claire is behind it if it weren't for the fact that ALL the anvils are pointing that way and it's rarely the person carrying all the anvils. 

Literally no one believes in her innocence, except for maybe Gwen.  Even her parents who acted supportive were unsure during their conversation.  Then she went out briefly right about the time that someone looks to have planted a bomb in the church.

So that was a masseuse, huh?  I know they mentioned that she was dressed strangely but did they ever even try giving an explanation as to why she was in a red dress other than clearly wanting it to be a fakeout?

[wurdalak]

 

Of course Allie is acting like a brat: that is just simple genetics. Now into her forties, her mother is still being a brat about everything, expecting events and people to conform to her every wishes and preferences, through a permanent process of magical thinking. This is the heritage and example Allie has had to grow up with. Will managed to escape it; perhaps she will do so as well eventually.

The "unknown twin" is certainly a hoary soap cliché, but in the context of recent DOOL it is a refreshing change from the all-purpose enchanted resurrection serum from Dr. Rolf, which he undoubtedly developed while doing postdoctorate work at Hogwarts. Unfortunately, it points to Jake getting involved with Gabi, who has grown into quite the shrew.

As a matter of fact, she has completed her inevitable metamorphosis into the Julie of the younger set, her shrill insistence that she knew in her guts this was her once-dead husband being a prime example; I guess that mistake shows how much her precious loins were indeed damaged beyond repair while in prison.

I hope that Jake has the stomach for it and can get used to her figure-skating tournament outfits. If her tacky designs are indeed the most profitable branch of DiMera Enterprises, it shows how low this once mighty company has fallen. Jake can at least look forward to Vivian's return, for some delightfully askew motherly nurturing.

On 7/20/2020 at 1:58 PM, kitmerlot1213 said:

There is zero proof that Claire sabotaged anything but CIara and Ben are acting as if they have Claire dead to rights, instead of just suspicions and accusations. 

Circumstantial evidence does consistently point to her, so they are quite justified. Plus she still acts as the narcissistic socially delusional child she was in her murderous phase and comes across as equally kooky as before. I would bet on this being a red herring and someone else being the real culprit, including possibly tampering with Ben’s medication (which might explain his visions of Jordan).

On 7/17/2020 at 5:11 PM, peachmangosteen said:

May Sami forever give Ben shit.

Judgmental Sami did not hold standards quite as lofty when she broke Ben out of the hospital to have him recreate Will’s murder and shock him into remembering his past. A very tender gesture from a supposedly loving mother, who has no claim to the higher moral ground. She may resent Ben for coming his senses about the whole scheme before she did.

But it is a common thread for Salem characters to have a giant blind spot when it come to their own behavior; they are very quick to judge others but are totally lacking in self-awareness as far as assessing their own actions (as Kate demonstrated yesterday when talking about Vivain).

I fully understand Marlena’s affection for Ben. As far as we know he is the sole example of a recent success by Salem's mental hospital and by her profession as a whole: Abby keeps relapsing, Jordan fooled them all and the jury is still out on Claire. I am not put off by his serial-killer past; he has been cured (until the writers find it expedient to have him go crazy again when they are out of inspiration for plot points), which means he is no longer a serial killer and his actions were committed while under psychological derangement. Anyway, he and all his victims are fictional soap opera characters, subject to the whims of the successive writing regime changes, which means that as a viewer I have learned to adapt.

He also fulfills the essential function of making Ciara a little tolerable.

[DisneyBoy]

52 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Ew. Boes, you're not helping make this nightmare less disgusting to watch. 😉

I blocked out a lot of that, so maybe you're right. But still. I call BS. Resurrection serum only works on dead people, Show. And it's not like Ben started to strangle Will and then got interrupted or did a half-assed job or something. Will was dead, D-E-D dead, as far as Ben and everyone else in town knew.

Well, Ron was just inventing his resurrection serum with the return of Will storyline, and I can remember I think it was Chandler saying in the interview that he was impressed that they managed to find a plausible excuse for how he had survived...but then they go and say that Will only appeared dead which enabled Ben to carry his notdead body over to his apartment without realizing he was notdead, so it could be found by Sonny or whoever it was that walked in on Will's body in his apartment.

So yeah, the official story is that Ben mostly murdered Will, but then didn't notice he was still technically alive. Is that even how strangulation works? Can you strangle someone to the point where they're not breathing but because their heart is still pumping they're technically alive? I would think not being able to breathe means you go brain dead really fast.

....and the justification for all of this was that Rolf was head over heels in love with Susan and willing to give her a replacement son 🙄

The Susan I know would have taken one look at a half-dead Will and done everything she could to save him. Not make him look deader. But then again, I can't even remember what the explanation was for why Rolf and Susan were even there, waiting outside Ben and Abigail's apartment for Ben to panic and leave momentarily.

Just saying they had a serum they could use on the body to bring it back to life within 48 hours of its passing would have been much easier. Still doesn't explain how Susan could have gone along with the whole thing though. Would have made more sense for Rolf to bring Will back to life and then just place him with Susan for safekeeping for the time being. Ron way overcomplicated it...but again, I don't think he had decided he really wanted Rolf to have an anti-death equation yet. I think that only became is solidified later, when Jack came back to life.

Speaking of which, I want to applaud the show for never forgetting that Stefan's organs have been redistributed to other people, but they never once mentioned that Jack was in the same boat? After he fell in the elevator shaft his internal organs were donated.

Oh Ron. Consistency.

[nilyank]

17 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

Judgmental Sami did not hold standards quite as lofty when she broke Ben out of the hospital to have him recreate Will’s murder and shock him into remembering his past. A very tender gesture from a supposedly loving mother, who has no claim to the higher moral ground. She may resent Ben for coming his senses about the whole scheme before she did.

 

Well apparently it was not that traumatic to Will as he easily continue to joke around with Ben about that time when he killed him violently as Will breathed his last breath.

In a show where the good guys ala Marlena and Will not only support but praise the serial killer, I would take bratty and narcissistic Sami forever holding a grudge towards man that put her first born son in the morgue every single time.

Rather than it being a credit to Marlena and Will because they have forgiven Ben, it shows them to be them fools that the next time they criticize someone else's bad behavior, I am not going to believe that they are right in any way.

And this is about not liking Ben. I don't care about Ben, one way or the other. But two of his biggest victims shouldn't be his strongest allies/friends/pseudo family.

 

[Maelstrom]

5 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Speaking of which, I want to applaud the show for never forgetting that Stefan's organs have been redistributed to other people, but they never once mentioned that Jack was in the same boat? After he fell in the elevator shaft his internal organs were donated.

Well, IIRC Steve is also is in that club, along with AMC's Jesse, and probably a bunch of other characters on any number of soaps. Maybe they regenerated, like Doctor Who. Since this show is basically a bad Sci-Fi channel original movie anyway.

[nilyank]

9 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Well, Ron was just inventing his resurrection serum with the return of Will storyline, and I can remember I think it was Chandler saying in the interview that he was impressed that they managed to find a plausible excuse for how he had survived...but then they go and say that Will only appeared dead which enabled Ben to carry his notdead body over to his apartment without realizing he was notdead, so it could be found by Sonny or whoever it was that walked in on Will's body in his apartment.

 

 I went looking to see who found him. It was Gabi. 

While I couldn't find the actual clips, I found a montage music video where you see all of Will's family reaction to his DEATH

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G5-sOkQ5J0

[TenaciousWarrior]

The Will/Ben scenes talking about how Ben would “have to murder Will again” if he didn’t let him out of the room was tacky. Even tackier is Ron promoting it on Twitter. Ha, ha, Ron. Only I’m not laughing.

[wurdalak]

13 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Well apparently it was not that traumatic to Will as he easily continue to joke around with Ben about that time when he killed him violently as Will breathed his last breath.

It took him a long time though, including a year-long stint in jail, before he came around to his present position, improbable in the real world but very soap-operaish. Whereas Sami is still her annoying immutably self-righteous self, always maintaining she is right in spite of all other opinions and of basic facts. In her inability to learn and change, she has been shown to be an utterly single-minded simpleton. But then again, she also is an imaginary person as are all the others so it is difficult to really hate or love any of them.

[Pearson80]

2 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Ew. Boes, you're not helping make this nightmare less disgusting to watch. 😉

I blocked out a lot of that, so maybe you're right. But still. I call BS. Resurrection serum only works on dead people, Show. And it's not like Ben started to strangle Will and then got interrupted or did a half-assed job or something. Will was dead, D-E-D dead, as far as Ben and everyone else in town knew.

Don't forget he put Will in a garbage bag and dumped him in his apartment  like he was nothing where his young daughter lived and could have seen him like that as Gabi did when she found a lifeless Will. Ron is just a hack, no matter how he writes Ben with everybody worshiping at his feet including his victims Marlena and Will, you put a lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig..

Edited July 22, 2020 by Pearson80

[Frozendiva]

Of course, any medical test for any drug in Ciara's system was inconclusive. Her drink could have been spiked, she could have just had a hangover from drinking and not eating, she could have had food poisoning or a stomach bug that showed up 72 hours later. Doesn't Salem have any neighborhood medical clinics so a food poisoning case did not take up valuable hospital beds?

Hope looked really good today. Good makeup, good dress. Replacement maid of honour looked like some garden sprite.

Does Marlena's apartment have a back door that folks can just leave and not have to use the front door entrance? No wonder so many criminals get in the house!

All the anvils seem to point to Claire. I too noticed the little smile or smug look on her face when her parents were talking about her.Although where does she get the cash and the ability to purchase a bomb? Craftmaking classes at Bayview?

Marlena treated Ben like a semi-son. Maybe he is a success case of someone going through extensive psychological trauma that has put in the work to change his life. I liked the comment from a poster saying that Ben goes through the soap opera writer's winds of change - that he becomes whoever writes him and who that person wants him to be. He could easily tell a shrink that he is a poor soap opera character that goes through various writing regimes and he is mainly a puppet of sorts.

Xander's hot woman was a masseuse? In that kind of outfit? What is wrong with basic scrubs or yoga pants and a tunic? I genuinely enjoyed his real laugh at Sarah thinking he hooked up with a hooker.

Does the Salem church need some extra bucks so it rents itself out to folks like Julie who are able to marry people? Shouldn't it have first dibs on doing that? Are the priests at a conference? She brayed so loud that the poor statues in the church garden probably turned around or flipped over.

 

 

[nilyank]

So TLC, has/had a show call Four Weddings where 4 brides attend each other's wedding and they grade each other by points for different stuff (dress, reception, food, music, venue) and the one with most points wins a free honeymoon

 

However I just realized that none of the four couples that had weddings attended any of the other weddings so they could not compare which was worst (because they will/have sucked).

Elani - dress (barely there), guests (too few too count) venue (Julie's) reception (with the couple was in bed 1hr later - minimal at best)

Jayla - dress (dowdy, ugly), guests (a bit more but not much) venue (Kiriakis livingroom) reception (cancelled as was the wedding)

Ericole - dress (boring, simple, ugly), guest (few family, unknown extras) venue (Brady's Pub) reception (cancelled as guests quickly left as clam chowder is not worth sticking around for)

Cin - dress (overflowing, busty, ugly) guests (everyone except half of  the Bradys and Hortons who are in town meanwhile groom main guests should be on the bride side but SERIAL KILLER beats all) venue (St Luke's - hasn't been used since Nick/Gabi's failed wedding, Lucas/Adrienne failed wedding), reception (TBD)

In the end, I give 0 points to Elani, Jayla an Ericole because I had zero interests in these weddings and they all looked so cheap. Cin gets negative points because they took all the money that could have been used for the other weddings and SERIAL KILLER.

Edited July 22, 2020 by nilyank

[norcalgal]

3 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

So yeah, the official story is that Ben mostly murdered Will,

Oh dear, DOOL is now using The Princess Bride scale of death...So I guess Rolf is Miracle Max?  [Well, they both have exaggerated accents]

[DisneyBoy]

So, yeah....I got bored and cracked and watched most of the last two episodes. Monday's wasn't that bad actually. I really appreciated that they went through the trouble of showing the aftermath of Vivian's sudden death. I didn't think we would get that. Although I feel very sorry for Louise, at her age, having to slide into a coffin and have the lid closed over her. Jesus. Ron is sick.

I'm very glad she is still alive and at least reunited with Yvon. That's the best ending she's had in a while. Of course I didn't understand Kate's glee at all. She actually shot Viv dead like two years ago, so she hasn't been "waiting a decade" for this.

I loved Claire and Jordan seemingly giving voice to all of us beleaguered fans here on this board. They were channeling us big-time, weren't they?

I did fast forward through much of the Marlena and Ben scenes, but I was able to tolerate some of it....to a point.

If Deidre likes Robert Scott Wilson so much, nothing's stopping them from having afternoon tea every other day. But I would prefer that their off-screen relationship not spill over into what should be a very complicated and dark on-screen relationship. Too late for that, I guess.

I want to have at least two weeks of episodes where people beg Claire for forgiveness. No way in hell she planted a bomb at the church. I guess the producers instructed Olivia to play Claire as sinister and scheming as a misdirection tactic for the audience, but I kind of wish she had been a bit more vague about it because for all intents and purposes it seems like Claire's obviously the one doing everything. Ron does not have a light touch. It says a lot though that I still like this character, even when she's being over-the-top and annoying. Olivia seems to be having fun with her and inviting us to do the same and not take it all too seriously.

[MsTree]

12 hours ago, QueenSerena said:

Ron thought it was just so hilarious that he decided to share that part of the script:

I thought it was very funny too. As someone said upthread, you have to view Days as a dramedy...and go with the flow. Otherwise, you just might end up in Bayview yourself.

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I'm watching this as a comedy of horrors at this point ...

The show is actually usually a lot of fun to watch if you just view it as a comedy. 

11 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Hope looked really good today. Good makeup, good dress. Replacement maid of honour looked like some garden sprite.

Hope really did look fantastic. I loved her dress. lol at your Allie description. You're not wrong!

[RunningMarket]

11 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Oh dear, DOOL is now using The Princess Bride scale of death...So I guess Rolf is Miracle Max?  [Well, they both have exaggerated accents]

If we see Rolf munching on an MLT (mutton lettuce tomato), we should be worried. 

[brisbydog]

What was Cierra planning to wear to her wedding if Claire had not 'fixed' (I assume broke out the nail polish remover) her dress? She seems to have had no dress, no walk down aisle, nothing planned the night before

[kitmerlot1213]

So the best part of the wedding?  The bomb exploding right at the end--WOO HOO!!  My favorite part was Ben's getting hit with pieces of the hallway--well done sabotaging bomber 🙂  

Why does Lani think Ciara cares that Lani had to get a new dress?  And why does she care if Gabi is at Ciara's wedding and why does she care that Allie is Ciara's new maid of honor?  Doesn't Lani have enough to worry about, what with her second unplanned pregnancy while she's in her 30's?

I like that Claire got to drop some truth bombs on her mom, especially regarding how no one believes her that she didn't try to ruin the wedding.  So I guess Claire's an expert bomb maker now?

[howmanywords]

When was the last time this cheapass show put on a wedding of this calabar?  It was both laughable and annoying. With all the money they blew they couldn't shell out some duct tape for Julie's mouth? That ending though!

[DanaMB]

I was laughing at Ciara’s expression at the end of today’s ep. It was more, “Did I leave the iron on?” and less “Did my new husband just get blown up?”

🤦🏻‍♀️

[BuckeyeLou]

BOOM!  I kept waiting for something to happen.  I actually thought Ciara's dress was prettier than I expected & I liked her hair.  Loved Rafe telling her the ice skating story & calming down Ciara.  Why wasnt Sonny at the wedding with Will?  I thought Hope looked pretty but the color of her dress was yukky: Mustard yellow & then red shoes, no bueno for me.  Why didnt Jake take off his leather jacket before entering the church?  Marlena finally was wearing appropriate wedding attire: a pretty blue lace dress.   Julie was her usual overly-dramatic self.   And then Claire was Very Over the top Dramatic with her Mother, talk about trying to convince us she is guilty!  All in All, an entertaining episode.

[Silver Raven]

I was trying to figure out why Sarah and Xander were at the wedding, but Xander is the bride's father's cousin, so he's family.  The only connection I could see to Sarah is that she was married to a Brady (Rex), so that makes her family, I guess. And her mother is married to the bride's grandfather.

 

[bannana]

Was that another Ron C. in bad taste inside joke, when he had Ben dipping Ciara very low to kiss her with what appeared to be his hands around neck? From the angle we saw it, it looked he was choking her.  Not to mention the choke-her she was actually wearing.

[Guncle Adam]

Sarah and the mother of the bride (Hope) are first cousins. 

Not that I can recall them having a scene together. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by ajs1615

[DaphneCat]

1 hour ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

So I guess Claire's an expert bomb maker now?

Arts and crafts at the funny farm.  After the sabotage and poison class.

How much do you want to bet there'll be a BUNCH of non-accusation accusations and side-eye to Claire and MAYBE a couple half-assed "apologies"?  "Well, you know Claire, it's not like you can blame us for all accusing you of being bat-shit crazy.  It's not like you were ONLY a serial killer or anything.  But, well, we're kinda, sorta sorry we said it to your face."

[bunnyblue]

I wonder if there's something wrong with Suzanne Rogers because this is the 2nd wedding that Maggie should be at that she is missing because she has a cold. I thought Victor's excuse that he would have to miss Ciara's wedding because he was gonna stay home with an ailing Maggie was rather flimsy. Victor can barely stand and I'm supposed to believe he is going to take care of Maggie?? Who attends and who hasn't attended these spate of weddings is just so bizarre and the excuses for some characters not attending is even weirder.

[boes]

13 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

I wonder if there's something wrong with Suzanne Rogers because this is the 2nd wedding that Maggie should be at that she is missing because she has a cold. I thought Victor's excuse that he would have to miss Ciara's wedding because he was gonna stay home with an ailing Maggie was rather flimsy. Victor can barely stand and I'm supposed to believe he is going to take care of Maggie?? Who attends and who hasn't attended these spate of weddings is just so bizarre and the excuses for some characters not attending is even weirder.

I have no real of idea of the reason, but a while back I did read an interview with her where she talked about how hard the storyline she just wrapped up onscreen, of her finding out that she was the one driving the car that killed Adrienne and Sarah's baby was, how much it took out of her.  At the same time, she said, she'd been caring for her own mother who was either very ill or dying.  She said she'd lost 20 pounds while doing that story.  So maybe, considering how long the time is between them filming the show and we seeing it, she was still recovering from all of that?  God knows the woman deserved a break.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, DanaMB said:

I was laughing at Ciara’s expression at the end of today’s ep. It was more, “Did I leave the iron on?” and less “Did my new husband just get blown up?”

Her reaction was so very typical for her.  She didn't look scared.  She looked mad that the bomb had the audacity to go off at her wedding.  How dare it inconvenience her?

I did have to laugh at Eli gallantly covering Ciara (not his baby mamma) in the church but only after the bomb was basically over.

36 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

I wonder if there's something wrong with Suzanne Rogers because this is the 2nd wedding that Maggie should be at that she is missing because she has a cold.

I thought Victor was at the wedding?  But I fast forwarded so maybe I saw a man with gray hair and assumed it was Ciara.

If Victor wasn't there, I suspect it's because an event with multiple cast members and multiple coverages can be very long days/scenes to shoot.  That might be too much for John Aniston.  I suspect Maggie's absence might be related to how much she was already used this year.  Using her more might lead to having to pay her more.

[Guncle Adam]

Also I believe if Maggie and Marlena are ever seen in the same place at the same time, a gaping hole in space-time rips through Salem. 

I'm sorry. I don't make the rules. 

[QueenSerena]

1 hour ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Why wasnt Sonny at the wedding with Will?

I've been wondering about that, as well. He'd agreed to be Will's +1 so now it's just like 🤷‍♀️

[boes]

7 minutes ago, QueenSerena said:

I've been wondering about that, as well. He'd agreed to be Will's +1 so now it's just like 🤷‍♀️

Maybe Sonny's wedding suit wasn't ready yet and he couldn't go wearing the suit he'd had on since breakfast?

Or maybe he realized that Will would only have eyes for Ben and his big....tie......?

Edited July 22, 2020 by boes

[RunningMarket]

Well. Congrats Julie, you successfully married a couple without any major blow ups... oh wait.

In the flashbacks, Ciara seemed far less smug. And less inclined to wear fashions circa 1992.

Victor not being there because Maggie has a cold was lazy writing. They could have easily had him say it's due to him still recuperating from his recent hospital stay. Sonny not being there was also strange. Also, shut up Lani.

[DaphneCat]

15 minutes ago, RunningMarket said:

Also, shut up Lani.

This can't be said enough.

Loved Ben's vows.  "Everyone hates me.  No, they really do.  No one thinks Ciara should marry me.  Well, BITE IT.   She did it anyway."

[Silver Raven]

I like the CiaraTiara.

So it's all about Lani, huh?

I can believe that the original younger Ciara would be able to control a feral tomcat.

 

[nilyank]

2 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I was trying to figure out why Sarah and Xander were at the wedding, but Xander is the bride's father's cousin, so he's family.  The only connection I could see to Sarah is that she was married to a Brady (Rex), so that makes her family, I guess. And her mother is married to the bride's grandfather.

 

But Ciara hates Xander so why invite him when she has other family in town (Hortons and Bradys) that she could invite instead.

[chediavolo]

Good episode. Somewhat like the old "Days".  I thought Ciara's breasts were going to pop out of her dress at some point. Julie had better give up officiating weddings.  

[lb60]

I couldn't wait for the stupid wedding to be over, so we could get to the good stuff.

Ollie goes .

I'm just disappointed that Julie's mouth wasn't in the vicinity of the blast.

Edited July 23, 2020 by lb60

[CanaryFan98]

3 hours ago, ajs1615 said:

Sarah and the mother of the bride (Hope) are first cousins. 

Not that I can recall them having a scene together. 

They did because Xander gifted Sarah the necklace Ted gave Hope. Hope recognized it and that's when she started to get suspicious about Ted.

4 hours ago, howmanywords said:

When was the last time this cheapass show put on a wedding of this calabar?  It was both laughable and annoying. With all the money they blew they couldn't shell out some duct tape for Julie's mouth? That ending though!

Chad/Abby's second wedding at St. Luke's which was a double wedding featuring Paul/Sonny back in 2017. Oddly enough Ben crashed that wedding claiming Will was alive.

[superdeluxe]

4 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Why wasnt Sonny at the wedding with Will?

He probably didn’t want to see his idiot husband make bedroom eyes at the man who killed him.  He should change the locks on his ass, but that’s Victor’s home so that’s up to him, really.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, DanaMB said:

I was laughing at Ciara’s expression at the end of today’s ep. It was more, “Did I leave the iron on?” and less “Did my new husband just get blown up?”

I was rolling over her face. It was so bad lol.

4 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Why wasnt Sonny at the wedding with Will?  

I'm gonna fanwank that he pretended to be sick so he didn't have to watch Will stand beside the man that murdered him.

Decent ep. The wedding was hard to stomach but it was all worth it when the bomb went off.

[wurdalak]

Well that was very cheesily OTT wasn't it? The extended arms at the end as they are about to rejoin, the overblown and very costly ceremony with all the tacky decorations and the silly traditional trimmings, the long-winded vows (although Ben's were delivered in a very heartfelt and sincere manner), it was all there. And even a "surprise" event at the end to disrupt things; it's a wonder anyone in Salem still wishes to get married because every ceremony gets interrupted; sometimes it's a minor thing, like a gun-toting Vivian or a foaming-at-the-mouth Sami, other time it's a bomb. I doubt Ben is dead, but his fate may take time to get resolved.

All in all a grand spectacle, but I have a question: why do women characters who get married automatically take on their husbands' family name and get presented as Mr And Mrs Eric Brady or Ben Weston? Perhaps a sign of how conservative the US still is and how soaps do not want to offend their traditional viewers?

And whoever made the bomb must really be an expert since they seem able to predict the exact timing of the ceremony and to know that the newlyweds would be separated at the precise moment the bomb exploded, whether by timer or remote control.

18 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I want to have at least two weeks of episodes where people beg Claire for forgiveness.

Why should they? All of the evidence points at her; it may be happenstance or it may have been orchestrated by the real culprit to frame her, but if I were faced with the same set of facts, I would come to the same conclusion as Ciara, Ben and others did.

18 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I loved Claire and Jordan seemingly giving voice to all of us beleaguered fans here on this board. They were channeling us big-time, weren't they?

I am afraid I have to dissent from that alleged unanimity of views. I do not see any reason to systematically wish Ben ill because of past actions done when he was mentally ill. If one believes in the possibilty of being cured and rehabilitated in the real word, one cannot exclude it in DOOL-land.

The main difference I see between Ben and Claire is that in his case, it is visible that the therapy has produced tangible results. He acts like a normal person and one can conclude that he is indeed successfully managing his condition with his meds. Claire still acts like the unstable kook who tried to kill Ciara twice.

22 hours ago, TenaciousWarrior said:

The Will/Ben scenes talking about how Ben would “have to murder Will again” if he didn’t let him out of the room was tacky. Even tackier is Ron promoting it on Twitter. Ha, ha, Ron. Only I’m not laughing.

I was smiling. It is an example of gallows or black humor, a common strategy people use to deflate personal tension and anxiety at difficult moments (for example during a funeral or at someone's deathbed). It may come across as bad taste to some, but I think it is precisely the point and intent.

Edited July 22, 2020 by wurdalak

[boes]

1 hour ago, lb60 said:

I couldn't wait for the stupid wedding to be over, so we could get to the good stuff.

Ollie goes .

I'm just disappointed that Julia's mouth wasn't in the vicinity of the blast.

You and me both!

[howmanywords]

51 minutes ago, superdeluxe said:

He probably didn’t want to see his idiot husband make bedroom eyes at the man who killed him.  He should change the locks on his ass, but that’s Victor’s home so that’s up to him, really.

I don't know if its the way Chandler is choosing to play it and I realize we are supposed to see this as guys who have bonded but yeah - why does Will look at Ben with heart eyes?! It bugs especially since he's married.

[tribeca]

I still think Ben acts strange.  
he is obsessed with Ciara.  Same way he was with Abby.   

[CanaryFan98]

It would be a nice twist if Ben was suffering a psychotic break after all and he was the one drugging Ciara and setting Claire up(much like Chabby a few years earlier) because Ben was fearing Ciara was pulling away from him by being friendly with Claire again. However that's too interesting for the show to write.

[Artsda]

I loved the wedding, flashbacks, vows, audience participation. It was great and they actually act like a pair who love each other so much.

[DisneyBoy]

5 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I thought Victor was at the wedding?  But I fast forwarded so maybe I saw a man with gray hair and assumed it was Ciara.

ROTFL! Best unintentional slip 🙂

[DisneyBoy]

5 hours ago, ajs1615 said:

Also I believe if Maggie and Marlena are ever seen in the same place at the same time, a gaping hole in space-time rips through Salem. 

I'm sorry. I don't make the rules. 

Weren't they both at the Bristen wedding debacle with father Eric?

....I just realized what this all was really about: Ron figured out a way to have Ben save the whole town AND a church AND on his wedding day, no less.

Move over, Saint Taniel - there's a new angel in town!

🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢

[DisneyBoy]

2 hours ago, wurdalak said:

I am afraid I have to dissent from that alleged unanimity of views. I do not see any reason to systematically wish Ben ill because of past actions done when he was mentally ill. If one believes in the possibilty of being cured and rehabilitated in the real word, one cannot exclude it in DOOL-land.

The main difference I see between Ben and Claire is that in his case, it is visible that the therapy has produced tangible results. He acts like a normal person and one can conclude that he is indeed successfully managing his condition with his meds. Claire still acts like the unstable kook who tried to kill Ciara twice.

I am on board with characters who are mentally ill dealing with their illness. My problem is when the show fails to name what that illness is and show the character working through it. Ben has just "been sick" and taking his nonspecific meds for a while. The show never named what he was actually diagnosed with because they really don't care. They just want us to view Ben as sympathetic now because the actor has abs and he is friends with the star of the show who is supporting his continued presence (Deidre Hall). As many here have said, there was no good writing for Ben when he first appeared on the show. He is defined almost entirely by being the Necktie Killer. Even once they brought him back, he didn't really have any personality or character traits beyond a troubled childhood and a recent history of murdering innocent women. If you want me to like him, that's not much for me to go on. To compare, Paul was introduced with a little bit of character history but basically got by on being a good-looking guy for several years. He wasn't very interesting, but the actor had chemistry and believability with his co-stars so none of us could really hate him. If they had saddled Paul with killing a bunch of people, however, I would have likely hated him the same way I now do Ben.

And as far as Ben being reformed, he sure seems to be willing to pull out the "I might kill you if you cross me the wrong way" card. We've seen him do that in several scenes. And on top of things he worked as a grunt and bodyguard for Stefan after his release, even kidnapping Gabi if I recall correctly.

If he was really a reformed person, he wouldn't joke about his willingness to kill others, or find employment in any line of work that would remotely tarnish his reputation further. I know that in the real world, former convicts have a very hard time finding employment and starting life afresh, but I guarantee you none of those people go and work for a Crime Boss or Mafia Family and expect people to think they've changed for the better.

Lastly, if anyone should understand the stigma of mental illness and the precarious nature of starting one's life over, it should be Ben. If this show was written by remotely capable writers, they might have had Ben side with Claire, believing her and at the very least suggesting Ciara not apply further pressure to her recovery by making her the Maid of Honor when there could just as easily be no wedding party at all. He would be rooting for Claire to succeed and be well again, understanding how rare it is to get a second chance. I'm not saying it's unrealistic for him to be suspicious of her, but it certainly doesn't make him sympathetic in my eyes. He acts like he would like to choke her or set her on fire, and I guess I'm expected to see that as him being a manly protective guy looking out for his woman, but Ben is territorial and aggressive and very self-involved. That's how he ended up in Bayview and I don't see any signs that he shouldn't still be there. In fact, after murdering three people and nearly murdering three others he should be in prison for the rest of his life. Period.

And while we're at it, what humiliated and repentant serial killer invites the families of his victims to his big wedding at the Town Church so everyone can cheer and applaud him on? That's just ghastly. If we're trying to believe that he is a rational person now, then the only way he would go along with this gaudy display is if he's purposely trying to rub the fact that he beat the system in everyone's faces. Of course, it also reflects badly on Ciara that she's willing to subject everyone in town to this wedding, given what Ben has taken from them. I know the show isn't framing it that way at all, though, and we're supposed to think everyone's showing up for Ciara, Bo's beloved daughter, but I often feel like the show is hitting me over the head with a big "feel badly for Ben!" stick. I refuse to be abused that way. Write better characters and maybe I'll *gasp* care organically! There were other characters on other shows who did terrible things and I could still root for them. Hell, I'm a die-hard Kristen fan and managed to look the other way on a lot of the BS the series has come up with since 2013. Why? Because Eileen Davidson is a phenomenal actress with great chemistry and an ability to turn any line reading and scene into something entertaining and layered. And her character isn't an irredeemable piece of garbage. She's actually a good woman who was driven crazy a long time ago and I realize the show is never going to stop going back to that well so I just kind of shrug my shoulders and go along with it. But I like Kristen. Kristen was a good person and deep down inside still is, from where I sit anyhow. She loves Brady, she's always been fairly loyal to her family members and she's willing to admit her mistakes sometimes. I got that she's not everyone's cup of tea, but I'll happily sit down and watch Eileen Davidson play that character any day of the week. Louise Sorel as Vivian too. They are both something to behold.

Ben is....nothing. I'm so baffled when I see people commenting on YouTube videos about how they're both the best couple on television ever, when they've had about as much development as some couple smiling in a toothpaste commercial. Robert Scott Wilson is not a good actor. He's just not. Just look at his scenes with Jordan from Monday - his face conveyed nothing, even upon seeing the ghost of his murdered sister in a wedding dress. He makes the same dumb expressions because models who go into acting often fall back on their "make a pretty face" training. Lani doesn't seem like a real person for those exact same reasons either. She always seems like she's nervous to have an ugly photo. Ben is the exact same way. I don't have time for those types of people, especially when they're eating up screen time on a show that's in its final death throws.

This wedding is the climax of the embarrassment that has been the character's presence on this show. It proves conclusively that the producers don't care about good writing or good acting or even good taste. Putting a bad actor at the forefront of the series, writing him as a serial killer who twinkles and jokes about his crimes while still professing to be a changed man, and then making all the characters kiss his ass is the Holy Trinity of shame.

1 hour ago, tribeca said:

I still think Ben acts strange.  
he is obsessed with Ciara.  Same way he was with Abby.   

I've been waiting for someone else to say it 🙂 Thank you.

Edited July 23, 2020 by DisneyBoy

[FilmTVGeek80]

2 hours ago, wurdalak said:

All in all a grand spectacle, but I have a question: why do women characters who get married automatically take on their husbands' family name and get presented as Mr And Mrs Eric Brady or Ben Weston? Perhaps a sign of how conservative the US still is and how soaps do not want to offend their traditional viewers?

It didn't happen at Eli and Lani's wedding. She said she's hyphenating her last name.

 

2 hours ago, wurdalak said:

If one believes in the possibilty of being cured and rehabilitated in the real word, one cannot exclude it in DOOL-land.

Just because you believe in something in real life doesn't mean it has to apply to television. I think the death of children is sad in real life, but while it doesn't happen too often I have wished for a character to miscarry or annoying child characters to be killed off. In this case my real world and TV views do line up because I don't believe in the redemption of serial killers. Especially not in this case where it's shoved down our throats and barely anyone is able to stay angry with Ben without being seen as petty or vengeful. There's no reason on God's green Earth they had to make Will and Ben besties or have him be his best man, especially when they could have easily had Jake do it.

 

2 hours ago, wurdalak said:

The main difference I see between Ben and Claire is that in his case, it is visible that the therapy has produced tangible results. He acts like a normal person and one can conclude that he is indeed successfully managing his condition with his meds. Claire still acts like the unstable kook who tried to kill Ciara twice.

Ben doesn't act normal all the time especially when he gets angry and starts threatening people that he's going to choke them. He doesn't mind using the past he claims to regret to his advantage then.

Ugh, hate that the wedding actually happened but glad Ben got blown up - too bad it won't lead to his exit off the canvas. Even if its a continuity issue, so glad Sonny wasn't at the wedding. 

Quote

I am on board with characters who are mentally ill dealing with their illness. My problem is when the show fails to name what that illness is and show the character working through it. Ben has just "been sick" and taking his nonspecific meds for a while. The show never named what he was actually diagnosed with because they really don't care.

THIS! It drives me crazy that Ben has some ridiculous non-named illness that handily excuses multiple murders.

Edited July 23, 2020 by FilmTVGeek80