S04.E05: Breaking Glass

[KAOS Agent]

Did Hook seriously ask Emma if she was "reflective" today? The mirror references were all over the place in this episode.

[Curio]

So basically you guys are saying I can't get drunk enough to make watching this episode palatable?

 

*Goes back to the happy place where the Packers get their collective asses handed to them* 

 

Oh, you want to know what depression is? Imagine me watching this episode sober and I had to watch my Packers get their collective asses handed to them. Who did I piss off in another life to deserve this??

 

Good god, this episode was a hot mess. I usually like watching the episode twice before I post about it, just to make sure I catch any missed lines or discover hidden themes in the episodes. Honestly, I couldn't make it through a second time because it was that bad. I got about 10 minutes into the re-watch before I had to turn it off, but here are some notes about the scenes I managed to get through:

 

• Elsa discovers some photographs of Emma at the sheriff station. Emma then has to clarify that those photos were taken because Regina abused her power and wanted to run her out of town. Emma says this line about Regina in the exact same episode in which she suddenly wants to befriend her? What?
• Because of these photographs, Emma starts reminiscing about how she and Regina used to hate each other. Elsa thinks Emma should try to reach out to Regina because "it seems like you two have come a long way since then." At the very best, Regina and Emma have worked their way up to tolerating each other, so I guess that weirdly counts as "coming a long way?" But still, how would Elsa know about their supposed friendship progress when she literally just waltzed into town a couple days ago? Ever since Elsa's arrival, Regina has been hiding, sulking, and has been pissed off at Emma. What?
• Emma calls Regina out on the photos she forced Sidney to take, yet there is no hint of irony here. Does it not register with Regina that her Season 1 mayor behavior was bad and might have pissed Emma off? And the fact that Emma is standing in front of her and calmly asking for help is proof that she forgave her of her actions? But apparently Regina can't apply that to her current situation. What?

 

I really did enjoy the Hook and Emma moments and the Will/Snow/Charming stuff, so there's that at least. I guess I'll have to catch up on those scenes on Youtube instead.

 

Also, I totally agree that Emma better not flip out at Hook whenever he gets around to telling Emma about Rumple's shady business. If Emma is completely nonchalant about Regina yelling at her, confessing she thought about killing Marian, and admitting she kept Sidney in her mirror, Emma better not be disproportionately angry at whatever business Hook and Rumple get in to.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Curio

[Camera One]

Excellent observations, Curio.

 

I usually like watching the episode twice before I post about it, just to make sure I catch any missed lines or discover hidden themes in the episodes. Honestly, I couldn't make it through a second re-watch because it was that bad. I got to about 10 minutes into the re-watch before I had to turn it off, but here are some notes about the scenes I managed to get through:

 

I can't blame you for not getting through the rewatch.  Out of the 5 episodes we've had so far, I can only say I liked one of them enough to consider a rewatch (but I didn't like it enough to actually rewatch for real).  Three of the others, including this one, I wouldn't rewatch for free airfare to Tallahassee.  I probably won't see this one again until I marathon with my friend who visits twice a year. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Camera One

[Whodunnit]

Curio, you're right. I'd forgotten that scene, which means that Elsa wasn't entirely in the dark, which is even worse.

[FabulousTater]

Also, I totally agree that Emma better not flip out at Hook whenever he gets around to telling Emma about Rumple's shady business. If Emma is completely nonchalant about Regina yelling at her, confessing she thought about killing Marian, and admitting she kept Sidney in her mirror, Emma better not be disproportionately angry at whatever business Hook and Rumple get in to.

 

I'm torn. It will be annoying if Emma is uber angry at Hook for lying to her, but the important difference here, I think, is that she trusts Hook more than she trusts absolutely anyone else in her life. She's all in with him and has been open and vulnerable with him in ways that she's never allowed with others. So if Emma sees his lying to her as a betrayal, I can understand it cutting much deeper than anything Regina has ever done. Regina has tried to kill Emma (so many times that I've lost count), so I don't think Emma actually trusts her even though she wants to be "friends" with her. Actually, the fact that Regina has tried to kill Emma several times over and Emma suddenly groveling at Regina's feet and wanting to be "friends" with her (btw, EFF YOU writers and I curse you and your laptops to perpetual Blue Screens of Death/Spinnig Beachballs of Doom, for that one. ) is far more irrational than her being angry at Hook for deceiving her.

[InsertWordHere]

I may snark about it, but I actually like that Hook is usually held to a higher standard than the other villains. It's why I buy his redemption more than Regina's and definitely more than Rumple's ignored villainy.

[thuganomics85]

 

Seriously I think this Will guy spent a longer time in jail for his minor crimes than Regina ever has for everything she has done.

You know, I'm not saying that breaking any law is cool or anything, but, yeah, it really is odd that Will has gotten bigger punishment for basically vandalism, drunk and disorderly, and petty theft, when you consider all the actual murderers currently chilling around, all free and stuff. Storybrooke is so weird!

[Minneapple]

Honestly it felt so uncomfortable and weird watching Emma be sad that she and Regina can't be friends and talk about "screwing her over" and chase after her. Meanwhile Regina is wearing horrible pants and being her usual bitch self having trapped Sidney in the mirror and threatening him. But she's REDEEMED because she's not trying to kill Marian, see -- lowering our standards here, people are congratulated for actively NOT TRYING to kill people! Never mind that she hasn't shown any remorse for her past actions or told Emma, "thanks for stopping me from killing another person" or anything like that. She's just redeemed because WE SAY SO.

Do these goddamn writers watch their own show? Do they realize how stupid this whole plot line is? My heart ached for Emma at the end of the episode with the box of her childhood things (and yup, she had a crappy childhood THANKS TO REGINA). But at least she looked nice in her white sweater and had a sweet moment with Hook. So I refuse to apologize for shipping Captain Swan for the simple reason that he's nice to her and makes her happy (and yeah, I know that means that it's probably doomed).

Edited October 27, 2014 by Minneapple

[Curio]

I'm torn. It will be annoying if Emma is uber angry at Hook for lying to her, but the important difference here, I think, is that she trusts Hook more than she trusts absolutely anyone else in her life.

 

Before this episode, I would've been completely okay with whatever smack down Emma gave Hook because he deserves it (and yes, he should be held to a higher standard now that she trusts him and appears to be "dating" him now), but her interactions with Regina in this episode have me completely thrown off. I think I'm just expecting the worst with these writers, so I'm unfortunately waiting for them to have Emma go from this episode being all "Regina, it's okay, let's be friends, I need you to like me so we can bond over magic, I don't care about you being a total bitch to me" to suddenly breaking up with Hook because he got himself into a sticky situation.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Curio

[Camera One]

They finally did it - Emma is a goner. This is officially on my list of Worst Episodes.

 

The more I think about it, the more offensive this episode becomes.  The idea that Emma would be trying to win Regina over and asking to be her friend, while having remembrances of how she turned her back on a friendship with some random girl she met when she was 14 as if this was a parallel situation is so preposterous.

[myril]

from the press release http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/10/once-upon-time-episode-405-breaking_77.html

 

 

Guest starring are Giancarlo Esposito as Sidney/Magic Mirror, Georgina Haig as Elsa, Elizabeth Lail as Anna, Oliver Rice as King Arendelle, Pascale Hutton as Queen Arendelle, Nicole Munoz as Lily, Barclay Hope as Lily's father, Kelly-Ruth Mercier as manager, Anson Hibbert as policeman, Ilias Webb as Kevin, Abby Ross as young Emma and Elizabeth Mitchell as Snow Queen.

 

Did I miss something? Was whatever scene with the King and Queen of Arendelle deleted? Or did someone mess up the press release for the episode?

[FabulousTater]

Before this episode, I would've been completely okay with whatever smack down Emma gave Hook because he deserves it (and yes, he should be held to a higher standard now that she trusts him and appears to be "dating" him now), but her interactions with Regina in this episode have me completely thrown off. I think I'm just expecting the worst with these writers, so I'm unfortunately waiting for them to have Emma go from this episode being all "Regina, it's okay, let's be friends, I need you to like me so we can bond over magic, I don't care about you being a total bitch to me" to suddenly breaking up with Hook because he got himself into a sticky situation.

I totally get where you're coming from and it's because we've seen how this ends, so to speak. It's Snow and her "dark heart" caused from doing the right thing, acting in self defense and saving her friends and family from a murderous Cora, and her "I'm such a brat" from "Bleeding Through" all over again. The difference this time is that the writers are sacrificing all the awesomeness of Emma's character at the altar of St. Woegina. Notice how much more likable Snow has become by keeping her away from St. Victimus (thank Gawd they deleted those scenes that they did share (thank you Disney Execs!) ).

 

This isn't going to end well for Emma in show or as a character and we all know it because we've been watching this show for three seasons. No one is going to come out of this smelling pretty except Woegina. And once again I say, EFF YOU, writers and the laptops you write on. EFF YOU for making the kickass Emma Swan that took a chainsaw to The Evil Queen's precious apple tree and basically told her to "Bring it, bitch!" and now essentially turned her into an abused woman seeking absolution from her abuser.

Edited October 27, 2014 by FabulousTater

[AudienceofOne]

Why did Regina bother tramping through the woods, when she can poof anywhere? That always baffles me.

 

 

LOL. That's exactly what I thought. Probably not the most important plot point but as soon as she poofed out I said, "why didn't she do that in the first place?"

 

I can't help but compare Regina's emotional development and self-awareness to my 7-year-old nephew, and it really isn't favorable to Regina, because as immature as my nephew can be at times, he still recognizes when he's done something wrong, he apologizes for it, and he's cognizant of other people's feelings. I have trouble feeling sorry for Regina when a 7-year-old is more mature than she is.

 

 

Surely, if the writers wanted to do this plot line they could have chosen an action for Emma that wasn't saving someone's life.

I just can't believe the lack of self-awareness to have a character you want your audience to have sympathy for actually say, "It's all your fault I have to save Marian from the Snow Queen because you didn't let me murder her first" (slightly edited).

 

"You've never had my back and you never will."

 

 

At this point, I just decided it was better to laugh.

 

I really loved the end scenes with Emma and Hook.

 

 

Captain Swan 4EVA (because I feel this has to be written in every post on this show)

[Ariah]

This episode was not as bad as I was afraid (seeing the Regina heavy promos).

 

It's true, I'm no fan of Emma running after Regina with rainbows and kisses - let the witch be. Just watch her in case she does something non-heroic again.

 

Also - good for you, Sydney! You're no traitor, you just got even. Don't let anybody tell you differently. Enjoy your freedom away from Evil Queens.

 

DairyQueen is wonderfull - quiet and menacing. But when I saw her being Emma's foster mother, my mind jumped right into another Elizabeth Mitchell's character from Running Scared (a thriller with late Paul Walker). She

was a very creepy 'motherly' character there.

 

Spoilerish clip from a film Running Scared that would not go under spoiler tag... Sorry!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1O-U4qbN6Q

 

 

 

I'm not going to dwell on the logistics of how the DQ got to the land without magic or how she escaped the cursed Storybrooke to foster Emma. But I am going into the logististic of young Emma's age.

 

Are you trying to tell me that in 1998 Emma was 13-14 and looked like this:

 

while two ot three years afterwards she looks like this?

 

But I guess putting the young Emma with Neal would raise all kinds of flags.

(gifs courtesy of onceuponamirror.tumblr.com)

Edited October 27, 2014 by Ariah

[FabulousTater]

But I guess putting the young Emma with Neal would raise all kinds of flags.

As well it should have! Twentysomething/Hundreds of years old adult male (Douchefire) gets involved in a sexual relationship with a 16/17 year old homeless teen (Emma) leaves her pregnant and sends her to prison for his crimes. "To Catch A Predator", anyone?!

 

ETA: I'm in a fine rage because I've come to the end of my rope with these characters taking a dump on Emma and the writers just have her take it. Emma never gets to vent about things she has every right to be angry about and being angry about something doesn't make you a bad person, writers. It makes you fucking human. It's what you do with that anger that makes you a bad person (i.e., Murder = Bad. It's effed up that I feel like that needs to be spelled out for you, writers). Getting to vent, and yell and placing blame with the people responsible for all the shit Emma's been through wouldn't make Emma a bad person. At this point it would be freaking therapeutic for her (and a lot of us in the audience). But, Regina yelling at Emma for saving a woman's life (a woman that Regina previously murdered) does not fall into this category, you turds. Regina yelling at Emma that she "ruined her life" is the epitome of narcissistic delusions and hypocrisy. Regina has zero room to bitch here that she was deprived of murdering someone because that's. Fucked. Up.

 

Others have said before that they think the writers must hate Emma and I was hedging, but I'm in. They must simply loathe her character. They must keep her around to be Regina's pretty punching bag and that's not fun to watch at all.

Edited October 27, 2014 by FabulousTater

[FurryFury]

This was pretty bad. I'd say it's a strong contender to "Bleeding Through" or "The Evil Queen" as the worst episode of the show, due to how character-derailing those Emma/Regina scenes were (and I actually skipped through some of them, couldn't force myself to watch this trainwreck fully). And now, officially, I HATE Regina. I used to just hate her writing while still remembering how fun she could be, but now, I don't care about that anymore. The Evil Queen is gone, we only have the biggest victim Sue Regina with her tears and her "totally righteous anger" and everything bowing before her. Ugh, I just can't stand her anymore. All I could think while she was on screen was how I want her to suffer. Maybe Snow Queen could freeze her into a statue in the middle of Storybrooke so she could stand there, unable to move, while watching how everyone else is having a grand old time without her.

 

The good stuff: I dug the hell out of Snow Queen/Elsa and Snow Queen/Sydney scenes (except her talking to a mirror, it looked way too cheesy). Elizabeth Mitchell is excellent in the role, and I love the way she switches between sincerity and anger and manipulativeness. With Elsa particularly, the icy cold aura she radiated was so strong I almost felt it. That's some good casting. Why can't we have a show with her and Elsa instead of Regina?

 

Snow and Will were... all right. I didn't understand half of what Will was saying, but he's still fun (and still random, TBH). Actually, the whole thing was pretty random.

 

Hated the Elsa chasing Anna thing. It lasted for too long, was boring and predictable, a total plot contrivance. Hated, hated, hated Elsa being basically a Swan Queen shipper, again, contrived as hell. It ruined the Emma/Elsa scenes which I usually enjoy.

Emma flashbacks, sorry to say, were supremely tedious. And I could definitely live without seeing Neal ever again (and I don't mean the Snowflake).

 

The ending reveal was very predictable, but at least it's something.
Overall, consider me totally unimpressed with the episode. Probably my least favorite of the show, TBH.

Edited October 27, 2014 by FurryFury

[Writing Wrongs]

I kept waiting for the Snow Queen to double cross Sidney, but she let him go. Unlike what Regina would've done.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Writing Wrongs

[Dani-Ellie]

I kept waiting for any character, any character at all, to point out that Emma hasn't done anything bad to Regina AT ALL and also OH BY THE WAY, Emma, the reason you grew up as an ORPHAN is because of what Regina did to you!  Remember that?  It's apparent the writers sure don't.

 

Now that I've slept on it, I've decided that we're totally looking at this all wrong. This wasn't an Oh Poor Regina episode, this was an Oh Poor Emma episode. This is them saying, "Look how messed up poor Emma is that she's constantly taking this crap and wanting to be friends with the person dishing it out because she's so desperate for affection, any affection. It's so sad that she thinks this is friendship."

 

That line of thinking is better for my blood pressure.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Even when I didn't love Regina's outfits in earlier seasons, she always looked so put together and hot. What she was wearing tonight was so boring. I am fine with her not wearing tight dresses anymore, but I would have preferred her in jeans to what she had on tonight.

 

With Zelena, it was HOLY HELL SCENE CHEWING ALL THE TIME!!!!! But EM is bringing a quiet sinister that I'm loving.

I agree that if I had to choose between the two, I would definitely take DQ's calm and quiet but still commanding nature instead of Zelena's shrieking scene chewing histrionics. I didn't love EM on Revolution (which is mostly the fault of the show itself) but so far I still like her as DQ.

 

I didn't mind the Neal photo and that she still had it. Don't we all keep things from ex-boyfriends? She kept the keychain he gave her after all those years.

I didn't have any issue with that either. I still have pictures, letters, gifts, and other stuff from old boyfriends. Some of them I haven't spoken to in years. In some cases, the relationship didn't end well but that didn't make me throw out every photo or piece of memoriabilia associated with that boyfriend. Honestly, if the only two things she kept are the keychain and that photo, I'd say she's doing pretty well/

 

No Henry this week was a bonus. Of course, all of Regina's whining made up for that. She really thinks that Emma ruined her life by keeping her from being with her true love? The same way that Snow White ruined her life by keeping her from being with her other true love? She is always misplacing blame in these situations. Cora had nothing to do with Regina losing her first true love, right? That was all Snow White's fault. And gee, Robin Hood had nothing to do with the fact that he CHOSE to stay with his wife. Nope, that's all Emma's fault for not letting her be murdered.

[Mari]

I kept waiting for the Snow Queen to double cross Sidney, but she let him go. Unlike what Regina would've done.

I don't think the writers even realize that the last two female villains they've had have been less evil than Regina on her good to middlin' days.

 

"Good" Regina enslaved Sidney.  The creepy, mysterious Snow Queen?  So far has one person on her body count (sort of) but is mostly floating around in her white dress being cryptic.  Now, I'm sure they've got some not-so-good plan in mind, but when one of your main heroes is just as evil--or more so--than your big bad for the season?  And it's not intentional?  You're presenting her--the evil good guy--as the victim?

 

You're messing up.

[buffynut]

I mostly watch tv for entertainment, so usually just follow along with the story and don't think too much about what happens.  But Regina hating Emma for ruining her life by preventing her from murdering her true love's wife in the past drives me crazy.

[YaddaYadda]

But Regina hating Emma for ruining her life by preventing her from murdering her true love's wife in the past drives me crazy.

I guess that what they mean when they talk about someone who has no self-awareness.  Regina is one giant mess of a woman.  And I'm really starting to side-eye all the true wuv business.  They are all so freakin' juvenile.  Once Upon a Time, the High School Edition.  Talk about true love and TLK is the reason I'm so very glad to be watching this show by myself!  Regina clearly can't function properly or in a rational manner without a man she calls her true love (Daniel, Douchenozzle) by her side.

 

I'd like to say that I'd be okay for the rest of my life if we were forever done with any Regina/Emma scenes. 

 

Hook/Emma scenes, more of that please.  Because that so very and completely normal. 

The Will comment about Hook getting to the mother through the son.  The dynamic is interesting between those two and I'm hoping for actual long scenes next.

DQ is all sorts of awesome, from her fortress of solitude to the mirror, releasing Sydney who double-crossed Regina (how sweet was that!) and just how calm she is with her villainy and how she is less theatrical in the way she does her magic, but very efficient.  And she loves Elsa in a very, very unhealthy way.

[Curio]

Someone help me out here. What was the exact line Regina said to Emma when she was pouting about how the "difference" between the two of them is that, unlike Emma, Regina has gotten over the bad things that happened to her in the past? Is that an actual real thing I witnessed? Or did I completely make that up in some bizarro world in my head? I'd go back and re-watch the scene to clarify, but I guess I'll just take a page from Regina and say...Well, I don't WANT to!

[Dani-Ellie]

I believe she said Emma has to learn to live with it, like she was.

 

Which, I gotta say, Regina's version of living with it is taking it out on everyone else and pretending she's the victim. As annoying as Emma's clinginess was (though I'm sure Regina and I have very different reason for finding it annoying), at least Emma was trying to help in the aftermath.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Vandy10]

I adore Captain Swan, so I was happy with those moments in this episode. 'Nuff has already been said about Regina.

 

What I really want more of is Will! I love that character, and I want to see where his story is going. Well, really, since I was one of the few who watched and liked OUaT in Wonderland, I have a pretty damn good idea of what he's looking for and where he's going. I just want to know why. What happened to him since the last episode of Wonderland? I realize that Will is a pretty minor character on this show, and the episodes need to service the major characters, but I wanna know about Will!

[ShadowFacts]

So Elsa's and Snow Queen 's magic individually are more powerful than Emma's and Regina's together? Interesting.

[ramble]

I'm an odd duck because I could care less about Emma & how she handles her relationship with Regina. I prefer some evil & I like Regina, murderous & unforgiving or not. The Charmings & their Swan have almost always bored me. The only thing I liked about them this episode was seeing Hook & Will with them. I'm more interested in what Will's up to than any of them.

I enjoyed Frozen but I'm getting tired of the hunt for Anna. I also don't give a flying freeze about the Snow Queen. I found the Lily flashbacks particularly painful & forced. Look Snow Queen is Emma's foster mom & Snow White is Emma's real mom. Wow, I snow don't care. This show is not holding my interesting anymore. I read an article online & played a game on my phone throughout the show & didn't feel like I missed a thing.

[patchwork]

I would have hated this so much less if Emma had taken the stance that they need to get along for Henry's sake. This wanting to be friends crap doesn't match the Not Sorry attitude Emma has being using with Regina in the past episodes and I hated every moment of it.

 

We've been down this road with Snow and despite CS cuteness I'm on the verge of dropping this show altogether, the writers' are so far up Regina's ass they warp everything in an attempt to make her the victim.

 

As a standalone I liked the flashbacks, if only because they're Emma flashbacks. As she matured and gained experience outside the System Emma understood Lily better; being adopted doesn't mean an automatic happy ending, despite what her younger self believed, and she regretted not taking that bit of paper. If we never get an explanation for Emma's tattoo I'm happy to headcanon it's in memory of Lily.

 

With a birthmark that looks like a star and a name like Lily the show could easily bring her back especially if the wanted to revisit Neverland. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by patchwork

[NotBothered]

I am starting to find the structure of this season weird.  I am happy that for once Emma seems to be the major connector in terms of plot (Season 1, we've missed you!), but the way other stuff is getting dropped is weird, and I didn't really notice until Hook showed back up.  We got zero reference to the whole hat plot, which makes me think we're just supposed to forget that Hook is lying to Emma here.  I didn't really care when it was just Robin/Regina being ignored, but when we don't even check in with the B-plot, it's kind of problematic for building tension. 

 

I will admit I didn't watch this closely.  I knew that I was going to be pissed at the Regina stuff, so I pretty much played games on my phone during those scenes.  They were still terrible, but not as bad as if I had really been paying attention.  Thank god for spoilers...I was prepared.

 

I was happy to see the staircase!  I actually just rewatched Frozen and thought that the show was really missing an opportunity with not doing the staircase...and then voila!  

[Curio]

I would have hated this so much less if Emma had taken the stance that they need to get along for Henry's sake. This wanting to be friends crap doesn't match the Not Sorry attitude Emma has being using with Regina in the past episodes and I hated every moment of it.

 

I would have hated it much less if Emma just snapped at the end and got to put Regina and her hypocritical behavior in her place. Heck, I could have taken Emma saying "I thought that maybe we could be friends" if it was preceded by an angry "Stop acting like the world is falling apart because I saved a person's life. You dated Robin for 5 days tops - get over yourself. Here are XYZ reasons why you're acting like a child right now, but I've been trying to be the better person here by reaching out to you. I'm willing to be your friend, Regina, but you need to stop acting like an entitled bitch and be friendly towards me if that were to happen." These are two strong women; it would have been much more realistic for them to get into a heated verbal argument (like numerous times in the past) and then come together later in the episode to both apologize for lashing out so harshly. Then we could have gotten that "let's be friends" talk.

 

As it stands, Emma was just way too calm and too coddling this entire episode.

 

ETA: If the writers truly wanted Regina to become more self-aware and make a huge step in the right direction towards becoming a redeemed villain, they should have had Regina go to Emma at the end of the episode to apologize and ask to be friends. There's no rational reason why Emma would want to do all the hard work with little benefit (and call herself an idiot in the process).

Edited October 27, 2014 by Curio

[Notwisconsin]

 "Portal to Asgard." Hee.

Disney now owns Marvel Comics.

[Ariah]

Funny how a villain connected to Regina was a hysterical megalomaniac with a scenery chewing attitude and a desire to get what is "rightfully" hers and a "villain" connected with Emma is a cool, calm lady who wants to have a family.

 

Not suggesting anything here ;)

[Writing Wrongs]

 

Disney now owns Marvel Comics.

I know. The fact that Josh was in the first Thor movie is what made it funny.

[Shanna Marie]

Where did Hook get the boat for sailing? "Borrowed"?

I was thinking about this, and then I wondered if anyone actually owns them or if they're just part of the Storybrooke set dressing. The boats were created by the curse, along with everything else in town, and curse 2 seems to have used the same template as curse 1, minus the memory/identity issues, as everyone has gone back to the same lives, just with the ability to choose their own romantic partners (the Charmings) and wardrobe (Ruby). It didn't seem like Regina had given anyone the kind of life that would be nice enough for ownership of pleasure boats, other than herself and maybe George. So I'm not sure they're actually anyone's boats. They may just be there because a coastal town should have boats there and it would have looked weird if it didn't, but everyone during the curse just assumed they were someone else's boats.

 

During the sailing trip, I wonder if Henry and Hook reprised the earlier conversation about Henry's father, now that Henry knows the truth and Hook can talk more openly about him. That could have something to do with Hook's reaction to seeing Neal's photo -- he'd just spent the day with Neal/Bae's son, talking about Bae. I just need to edit the image in the photo in my head to looking more like Bae ten years later than like 30-something Neal -- someone Hook would have recognized as Bae even if he'd never met Neal.

 

though I started laughing hysterically at her moping with the photo of her and Robin

That really is what that was? At that point, I was working on the crossword puzzle (to avoid having a stroke) and had taken off my glasses to see the small print, so I just glanced up and the screen was fuzzy. They really have forgotten that Robin and Regina were together for all of about four days and had maybe two dates, and during most of that time they were fighting Zelena. When did they pose for a picture and get it printed and framed? Who does that so early in a relationship? Or after a relationship? We're getting into Overly Clingy Girlfriend behavior here.

 

But still, how would Elsa know about their supposed friendship progress when she literally just waltzed into town a couple days ago? Ever since Elsa's arrival, Regina has been hiding, sulking, and has been pissed off at Emma.

Has Elsa even been in a scene with Regina? Have they even met? So now even the characters who haven't met Regina are propping her.

 

I have another Phantom Edit idea. The chainsaw scene in place of every scene between Emma and Regina would get old, so in a few of the more plot-critical ones, we can keep the existing scenes but insert Sven reaction shots to everything Regina says.

[Rhetorica]

I'm not as invested as many of you are. I just watch for fun and usually forget the story when I finish the episode. But Regina even got on my nerves last night, so she must have sucked! 

[Leia1979]

So Elsa's and Snow Queen 's magic individually are more powerful than Emma's and Regina's together? Interesting.

I thought that Elsa's magic being similar to the Snow Queen's made it more effective. Of course, that leads us into a lot more nuances of magic than we've typically dealt with on the show (other than last season's Regina and the white magic mess that I'm going to try to forget).

[Curio]

When did they pose for a picture and get it printed and framed? Who does that so early in a relationship? Or after a relationship?

 

Yeah, the props department kind of failed this episode. The photo of Regina and Robin was clearly just a screenshot of their kiss in the back hallway of Granny's and same with the polaroid of Emma and Neal. I guess I could hand wave the Regina/Robin photo by saying Regina magic-ed up that framed photo of them based on her memory of what she thinks that moment might have looked like. But the polaroid of Emma and Neal would have been more realistic and touching if it was a selfie.

[HoodlumSheep]

I am starting to find the structure of this season weird. I am happy that for once Emma seems to be the major connector in terms of plot (Season 1, we've missed you!), but the way other stuff is getting dropped is weird, and I didn't really notice until Hook showed back up. We got zero reference to the whole hat plot, which makes me think we're just supposed to forget that Hook is lying to Emma.

I don't think we're supposed to forget hook is keeping stuff from her, it's more like thy wasn't meant to be the focus of the episode?

There's a part of me that feels like this episode should have been switched with The Apprentice...? Obviously some of the details would have to be switched around and stuff, but????? I don't know.

Still enjoyed the CS scenes.

[Dani-Ellie]

But Regina even got on my nerves last night, so she must have sucked!

 

Yeah, she was a royal bitch last night (pun intended). Like, look, I get the parallel they were trying to make by telling the Lily/Emma story as a backdrop to this Regina/Emma story but this is one of those cases where the parallels didn't exactly track. Yes, Lily did something unintentional that ended up hurting Emma, just like Emma did something unintentional that ended up hurting Regina. But 1) Lily and Emma were kids. Unloved, lonely kids. 2) Lily was intentionally lying, or at least lying by omission. 3) Emma was portrayed as wrong by not forgiving Lily, and yet Regina continually rebuffing Emma's attempts to help was okay? So Emma should have been, "Oh, it's okay, Lily" but Regina continuing to yell and insult and hurl verbal abuse at Emma all episode was so much better?

 

It's for this reason that I'm choosing to believe Emma's attempts to get Regina to forgive wasn't so much about attempting to fix the relationship between her and Regina. It was about trying to fix the relationship between her and Lily through Regina. It's not about Regina at all. *nods*

[MedievalGirl]

This episode didn't seem to bother me as much as it did many of you. I liked that Emma and Regina talked about their craft and issues but that Henry was only mentioned in passing. It was like they passed some Storybrook version of the Bechdel test. I am well aware of Regina's many sins (even if they were not relisted in every single episode discussion ever.) If the writers won't deal with it with some sort of outside test or a truth and reconcilation committee then I'm glad the characters can just deal and move forward. 

I wonder if this talk of friendship is a seed for 4B with Malificent, "You're my only friend".

Regina couldn't just poof her way to her destination because Sidney was leading her there step by step. That was part of his plan and how she knew he had betrayed her when the winds rose while on the stairway bridge. 

[Donny Ketchum]

Heh.  The ice bridge took me right back to Frozen.  Elsa even ran across the bridge in the same way and stance as she formed it!

 

I don't know.  I liked this episode.  *Shrugs*  I'm just easy to please, I guess.  I like any time they pair up Emma and Regina.  And I liked what little we got of Charming, Snow, and Will.  And while the flashbacks were a bit of a waste of time, even they served some purpose as they built up to Emma's connection with the Snow Queen.

 

Hell, I barely even noticed the episode was Rumple-free till it was almost over.  That was how interested in it I was.

 

It was also Henry-free, which I'm sure everyone else enjoyed.

[Crimson Belle]

 

I liked that Emma and Regina talked about their craft and issues

They really didn't.  Regina talked about Regina's issues with Emma, mostly without there being a shred of truth in what she was saying.  There was no talk at all of the mountainous issues that Emma should have with Regina.

[LucidDreamer]

I have gotten a bit bored with this show in general, and just half-watch, but this episode even sent my "less than interested" self into a rage.

 

As a writer myself, I cannot fathom anyone thinking that the current Emma & Regina trajectory works.  As everyone else here has nicely detailed, Regina has actually harmed Emma and those she cares about -- even killing (or trying to kill) a few.  How in the name of the plot-contrivance fairy would ANY such character (much less Emma, who used to be such a kick-ass warrior-type) want to be Regina's friend?  I could understand a mutual truce for the benefit of Henry and the town, but... friends?? This does not compute.

 

Characters can change and be redeemed, or whatever. But Regina is still imprisoning people in mirrors. Not to mention the fact that her whole beef with Emma is that Emma saved the life of an innocent woman who REGINA PLANNED TO HAVE KILLED.

 

The irony of a murderer being angry because someone saved one of their potential victims... Is this lost on the writers?  Back to scriptwriting 101, folks.
 

[Primetimer]

OUAT spins its wheels in the snow a bit, but makes up for it with a solid shot of Ice Queen realness.

Read the story

[TigerLynx]

How stupid are the writers?  There is no way in hell Emma should be apologizing to Regina or anyone else for saving Marian’s life.

 

I did like the few Hook/Emma scenes, and Snow with Will was hilarious.

Edited October 27, 2014 by TigerLynx

[Writing Wrongs]

I don't care for the effects they use for Elsa's magic. The building the bridge was cool except for the animated swirly things coming from her hands.

[Guest]

I guess I'm in the minority here but I did like the very realistic and very human scenes that Regina and Emma had together. As much as the show makes me like Regina one episode and hate her the next, I was with her on this one. This is my view on it: you can't just swan back into someone's life (excuse the pun :p) after you've hurt them, no matter how much you apologize or say that it wasn't intentional. Emma needs to take her guilt and let Regina be angry because she has every right to be. And then at the end, when Emma said that it wasn't about the guilt, but it was about Regina being the only one who understood her.... Basically what she just said was 'Actually, it's all about me again.'

 

But I liked it because it engaged me and I felt like I emphatised with both characters. It was good writing :)

 

I wish the writers would have added something to Emma's dialogue about how they're Henry's mothers and they need to be a team anyway. It would be nice to see Emma!mother and Regina!mother in a day to day situation, I think.

Just a sidenote, how creepy was the Snow Queen's face in that camcorder thing??

Edited October 27, 2014 by lovedwallflower

[scenicbyway]

I really enjoyed this episode.  Yes, it's dumb for Emma to have to try to win over Regina's friendship, but I think I understand what the writers were trying to show us.

 

Obviously, Regina=Lily, Lily did Emma a favor by "buying" her food and setting her up in a "house" with a fake life, essentially.  This calls back to Regina letting Henry and Emma escape last December and gifting them with memories of a fake life.  We also see that Lily feels invisible in her own family and wants to runaway, just like Regina felt invisible to her mother (unless it concerned magic or power) and wanted to runaway from that life more than once.  Just like Lily being caught by her dad, Regina was always caught by her mother.  Of course, once Emma learns the truth about Lily, who actually has the one thing Emma's always wanted, a loving family, teenage Emma writes Lily off for lying to her.  We see from present day Emma, that she later regretted not keeping in touch with Lily, probably because even with her betrayal, it was a bright spot in an otherwise trouble childhood.  Perhaps, if they'd stayed in touch, Emma wouldn't have ended up with Neal etc. and things would've worked out better over all because she and Lily seemed to understand each other.  Emma's right, Regina is the only one who can understand what it's like to have magic and a troubled childhood to boot.

 

Is Regina whining a bit much over the loss of her relationship with Robin?  Sure, it's annoying.  She's whined longer than their relationship lasted.  The thing is, it's more complicated than that.  Regina's always known that she screwed up by not meeting him that night Tink led her to him.  Tink told her that by doing that she'd ruined both their lives.  Once Robin came into her life, she thought she'd get a second chance and she wasn't going to screw it up.  But of course, fate (or Emma) took it out of her hands and intervened.  Regina is in mourning because she thinks no matter what she does, she'll lose Robin anyway because she didn't take action that first night.  That's what she really wants re-written, she wants to go into that tavern and change the past.

 

Loved the Hook and Emma moments.  So kind and sweet, it's also nice to know that Hook is still spending time with Henry.  There is a ton of symbolism with Hook and Emma and marriage this season.  When he asked if he could have the honor of seeing the box and then he took out a ring, I felt like we were being hit over the head with it.  I'm not worried about Hook's secret at this stage, time passes so slowly there, it's not a big deal at the moment.

 

It was nice to see Snow put the baby down.  I did think it was funny when she said she didn't know why she was hanging out with a thief at the beach when she could be home with Neal--(oh, the irony).  I wish they'd clue us in to Will's reason for being in Storybrooke, but at least he has more to do than Belle.

 

Love the special effects of the ice bridge and the twist of DQ being one of Emma's foster mothers, (which many of us had speculated). 

 

Regina's pants were distracting.  But I like how they are dressing Emma in white shirts and sweaters this season, it plays well against Hook's black and makes Emma stand out in the snow scenes as well.

 

Good episode!

[jette]

...but Josh didn't get to reprise his role as Fandral due to his commitment with OUAT, so his mentioning Asgard made me sad. Blast you, Disney!

 

Otherwise, I loved seeing the Charmings spending time together.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I'm not sure where the story is going with two magical snow/ice women in town, but from the shallow end of the pool? Will Scarlet is pretty hot. I'm in (for now)!