The Bachelorette in the Media

[call me ishmael]

Has anyone seen how it is supposed to work tonight.  I know that least part of it will be taken up with the Men Yell All but it seems like they may do some elimination first.

[peachmangosteen]

The episode description makes it sound like a normal ep and doesn't even mention the Men Tell All so who knows lol.

[Kiss my mutt]

Gosh, I don’t feel like I’m going to remember any of these guys, it was such a weird season. 

[Irlandesa]

Dr. Joe has a thing on Instagram talking about the COVID vaccine.  It's informative.  But he also includes some funny Bachelorette shade around 5 minutes in if that's all you want to look at.  It's in the notes section under his talking head.

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CIv0UfGpN_O/?utm_source=ig_embed

Edited December 16, 2020 by Irlandesa

[peachmangosteen]

OK so when will they be announcing Dr. Joe as the next Bachelor? Actually, maybe I don't want that. He's honestly too good for this franchise. I would like to watch him weekly though so for me, he should do it lol.

[LakeGal]

I saw Blake on E!Daily Pop.  They asked him if he thought Clare and Dale were communicating before the season started.  He said he did not believe they did.  He said he thought Clare had looked them all up on social media and studied them.  She decided she wanted Dale and fixated on him.  He said he understood because he had done the same thing.  He knew it was Clare and he looked her up and thought he knew her.  He looked up her interests.  At least he now seems to know that he was not in love with her.  He was hung up on who he thought she was from her social media.

[ECM1231]

20 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Dr. Joe has a thing on Instagram talking about the COVID vaccine.  It's informative.  But he also includes some funny Bachelorette shade around 5 minutes in if that's all you want to look at.  It's in the notes section under his talking head.

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CIv0UfGpN_O/?utm_source=ig_embed

Loved this! Thanks so much for sharing!

[SallyAlbright]

Blake M. did a series of interviews this week where he said he thinks Zac is the best husband material and mentioned that he had very little Instagram presence and didn't really know what to do with it until the guys showed him. That makes me like Zac even more! 

[Recyclorette]

Oh no, here we go . . . Rachel has now targeted Ben and is trying to assure he is not the next bachelor.  She's comparing him to Peter Kraus, blah, blah, blah.  I hope this guy doesn't end up hurting himself. 

How horrible and unhappy a person do you have to be to go after someone who clearly has mental health issues (during a pandemic, no less), just to continue your own personal vendetta?

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/12/10233114/rachel-lindsay-ben-smith-peter-kraus-for-bachelor

Edited December 19, 2020 by Recyclorette

[nlkm9]

50 minutes ago, Recyclorette said:

Oh no, here we go . . . Rachel has now targeted Ben and is trying to assure he is not the next bachelor.  She's comparing him to Peter Kraus, blah, blah, blah.  I hope this guy doesn't end up hurting himself. 

How horrible and unhappy a person do you have to be to go after someone who clearly has mental health issues (during a pandemic, no less), just to continue your own personal vendetta?

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/12/10233114/rachel-lindsay-ben-smith-peter-kraus-for-bachelor

Rachel is really not a nice person. Obviously she still has unresolved issues about PK. smh.

[Recyclorette]

On 12/17/2020 at 5:48 PM, lizajane said:

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree! Not a fan of hers at all. Bullet dodged for sure.

Ben may have dodged one bullet, but his mental health is about to face a far more dangerous one:

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/12/10233114/rachel-lindsay-ben-smith-peter-kraus-for-bachelor

Edited December 19, 2020 by Recyclorette

[cinsays]

1 hour ago, Recyclorette said:

Ben may have dodged one bullet, but his mental health is about to face a far more dangerous one:

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/12/10233114/rachel-lindsay-ben-smith-peter-kraus-for-bachelor

that's awful. what possessed her to discuss him? very insensitive

[Crashcourse]

What a nasty piece of work Rachel is, to jump on Ben like that.  She doesn't even know him.

Also, it seems to me reading that article that she still hasn't gotten over Peter.  You know, the one that got away.  Her husband should take notice.

[Recyclorette]

12 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

What a nasty piece of work Rachel is, to jump on Ben like that.  She doesn't even know him.

Also, it seems to me reading that article that she still hasn't gotten over Peter.  You know, the one that got away.  Her husband should take notice.

There's plenty wrong with this franchise, but the way Rachel goes after people is so destructive.  I hope they sever all ties with her.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Recyclorette

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, cinsays said:

what possessed her to discuss him?

The desire to stay relevant as a franchise commentator.

I gave her a pass for being bitter about Peter Kraus right after her season, but now it's been several years and she's supposedly happily married to her F1. And while she knew Peter, she's never even met Ben, so what basis does she have for her comments? What a witch.

On a lighter note, I love that the Refinery29 article linked above talks about "a sparkly Neil Diamond engagement ring."

[catrice2]

I actually have issues with Rachel for ever going on this show and for how she acted like she was the Rosa Parks of reality shows, breaking a barrier for Black people that we didn't need to have broken.....BUT....that doesn't mean she is  always wrong or that she shouldn't speak her mind.   I wonder if people even listened to the podcast or just read headlines?  From my understanding she never said anything about Peter, and my friend who did listen and watches this franchise said she actually thought she was talking about Colton, but that it could have been a number of people, including Peter. 

Unfortunately Rachel is a local and there was lots of news and information about her.  Stop, please stop believing the edit that this show gives and taking those narratives as gospel.  As much disdain as I have for her, even I admit I don't know her!  Everything I have read, heard and seen however, indicates her main issue is that it was ALWAYS Bryan and that the show was edited to make it seem as if she was more torn to create a narrative to set Peter  up for the next Bachelor.  Even guys on her season have said that is true.  I'll admit, I somewhat fell for it  when I watched 1/2 her season.  I also never thought they would  marry, but she has a successful relationship from this franchise, AND she was privy to conversations that we did not see. In fact, I'm told that post show there were some texts or something from an ex that showed Peter went on to further his career.....so I actually don't blame her.  Therefore in fact I understand her anger that they did not give her edit the love story that was obviously there and for putting a racist plant on her show for drama.  I do have issues with her continuing to profit from the franchise while criticizing it. I wish she would sever ties.  The fact that every time she says or does something people start bringing Peter in or insinuating she is bitter , lets me know she is right to be annoyed about how they edited things and apparently portrayed her as a stereotype when she objected.  But in fact if the podcast is to analyze the show and give honest opinions, then she was just doing her job IMO. 

"with that being said"  I know very little about the franchise as a whole, but I had the same vibe from Ben as soon as I started watching. I don't know that he wants to be the Bachelor so much as he wants the opportunities that come with the show.   I do think his process, however, has more to do with his issues that any necessarily pre contrived plan.  I just think he is conditioned to play the part of "perfect" and in doing that he comes across a certain way because he is not being authentic...and he may not even realize it.  Curiously she is not the only person from this franchise that has made those comments about Ben, but she is taking all the heat and it is more interesting that so many people feel the same.  I did listen to her interview with him after already having that thought and it solidified it to me.  That was before she even made these statements, so that came from my own mind.  So for some of us, there IS a "there there," about him and it has nothing to do with PTSD, military training, etc. 

The fact that Ben has admirably faced and hopefully conquered demons in the past does not mean he is above behaviors that are suspect, or that he is not capable of taking criticism or opinions, or making mistakes.   That is something he will have to face in the real world from now on about things more important than a tv show, so hopefully he's done the work.  Two things can be true at the same time.....he can be a nice guy and have ulterior motives for either being on the show, or post show  try to cash in on it even if that wasn't his original intent.  If he is, that doesn't make him a bad person. 

Actually wanting acceptance and adoration would totally tie in to everything he has said about his past which makes me scared for him.  I will also say that having a sister and best friend  (Antonia, the Reality star) as superfans of this show, there is no way that he did not know that there is speculation and criticism coming from all corners once you've been on.  I don't think it's right, but there are podcasts, blogs, etc. devoted to this franchise for people to espouse opinions.  There are bound to be some that are unpopular but I don't have to put down someone else because they don't agree with me about people none  of us know beyond the carefully selected edits of a tv show...especially one that is known to feed off the drama they create.  Letting him come back and some other choices the show has made makes me think they care as little about Ben as they did about Rachel.   He had to know going in that people may not think or say nice things about him.   I have way more concern about how Ivan and his brother are doing because oddly people are not as accepting of his brother's mental health problems and the path it lead him to as they are Ben and Zac. hmmm  All of them took major risks in the things they divulged and they all should be applauded, but everyone acts like Ben is some special case.  

I actually think Rachel is mad at herself for going on the show believing it was going to be one way, then getting on it and realizing she had little control over the outcome, particularly being a lawyer, she should have read the fine print and did her research.   Since it was so heavily, in her opinion, edited to create a false narrative, and "fans" are continuing to believe that narrative years later  it makes sense that she is still frustrated and annoyed by it. I would be too.  Imagine being happily married to my choice and every time I say something people don't like they start name calling and referring back to a man and something that I've put in the past....when they don't know me!  She also realized the objective was not her happy ending or a love story, but in keeping the franchise going and I  think she feels betrayed.  More than likely they have done others the same, but since she was the firsts minority I think it bothers her more.  

All just my opinion....and for those who are going at her, you have a right to yours. 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by catrice2

[Recyclorette]

Well, Catrice2, here you go:

35 seconds in, "He reminds me of Peter Kraus."  It's not everyone else who keeps bringing up Peter, it's Rachel herself.  

People aren't always "going after" Rachel.  People are just tired of her always "going after" someone else. 

She's just using a fragile person to continue a personal vendetta.  That's irresponsible and dangerous, especially in these times.  But heck, this is a woman who publicly went after her good friend and ruined a relationship that wasn't hers to negotiate.

[chocolatine]

33 minutes ago, Recyclorette said:

People aren't always "going after" Rachel.  People are just tired of her always "going after" someone else.

Especially when she's doing that on her own podcast, so she can't claim to have been edited a certain way.

[Lsk02]

And if Rachel is so angry at The Bachelor franchise for not editing her story accurately or in the way she wanted, why does she continue to make appearances for the show? And promote it on various podcasts and interviews specifically about the show? Others who had issues with how they were portrayed or how things turned out have distanced themselves and put the whole thing behind them, including former leads. Rachel doesn’t seem to have any issues continuing to promote the show. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Lsk02

[Kiss my mutt]

Is Ben even up for the Bachelor? With the new season starting in January and then another Bachelorette, that seems a way off with many other guys coming in and out of this series. I couldn’t watch it. I would feel like it’s incredibly exploitative for someone with mental health issues. 
I’m a latecomer to this franchise so I never saw Rachel’s season.  Is it worth even going back and watching to understand what her deal is? 

[chocolatine]

42 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I’m a latecomer to this franchise so I never saw Rachel’s season.  Is it worth even going back and watching to understand what her deal is? 

Her confrontation with Peter played out over the finale episode and ATFR, so watching those episodes is probably enough to understand what her deal is in that context. But it's not a bad season to watch overall, there are some good travel locales, and some fun "drama" when a girlfriend of one of the suitors shows up early in the season and he pretends not to know who she is. The hometown dates were interesting as well, especially Dean's.

[Kiss my mutt]

11 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Her confrontation with Peter played out over the finale episode and ATFR, so watching those episodes is probably enough to understand what her deal is in that context. But it's not a bad season to watch overall, there are some good travel locales, and some fun "drama" when a girlfriend of one of the suitors shows up early in the season and he pretends not to know who she is. The hometown dates were interesting as well, especially Dean's.

Great, thank you! I may go ahead and watch it, lord knows I have the time now!

[Irlandesa]

On 12/19/2020 at 6:19 PM, catrice2 said:

In fact, I'm told that post show there were some texts or something from an ex that showed Peter went on to further his career.....so I actually don't blame her. 

Why would that make her upset?  She did the same thing.  In fact, for all the right reasons/wrong reasons talk the producers like to push...most come on to increase their exposure as a model/personality/influencer. Some come on for the TV experience.  For most of the contestants/leads, love isn't necessarily the goal; it's the happy accident. 

Rachel started this show as a lawyer but it was pretty well known that she hoped to go into entertainment and sports entertainment.  It took a while but she got there in the end.  Having some controversial "hot takes" and a podcast led her to her current job as an ExtraTV correspondent.

The Bachelor and Bachelorette franchise had been on for years before she got on.  She also was a contestant before she became the lead.  All of the things she's claiming not to like about it were not new with her season. The trend of the show had been to try and set up the next lead as well as tell the love story of the current lead.  That was also true with Rachel.

On 12/19/2020 at 9:59 PM, chocolatine said:

Her confrontation with Peter played out over the finale episode and ATFR, so watching those episodes is probably enough to understand what her deal is in that context.

Yep.  And to understand why I tend to side eye her "it was Bryan all along but the editing!" critique.  I know manipulation and editing can do a lot for the narrative.  I think we see it with Tayshia's season too.  But I just don't know how editing and even manipulation could have produced that confrontation.  She gave them the emotion and raw material.

Anyhoo, Peter was reportedly considered but I think he hesitated on being the lead.  Isn't that how we ended up with Arie? 

And I don't see Ben and Peter in any way alike.  I think Peter did also talk about having an eating disorder but he wasn't the walking bucket of tragedy that Ben was. I don't see manipulation on Ben's part.  I see fragility. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Irlandesa

[chocolatine]

8 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Anyhoo, Peter was reportedly considered but I think he hesitated on being the lead.  Isn't that how we ended up with Arie? 

IIRC, Fleiss said that Peter made too many demands. Peter was/is *very* good looking and had many rabid fans among Bachelor Nation, so if he had been more humble the gig would have been his, regardless of Rachel's rants.

Like you said, everyone who comes on this show, including Rachel and Peter, has an agenda, so she's a hypocrite for calling him (or Ben) out.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

IIRC, Fleiss said that Peter made too many demands. Peter was/is *very* good looking and had many rabid fans among Bachelor Nation, so if he had been more humble the gig would have been his, regardless of Rachel's rants.

Yep.  I think it's part of the reason Rachel keeps mentioning him because if not---whew.  She's not doing herself any favors changing the narrative of that season. 

I have to say, though, that I'm not a fan of Fleiss.  I do think the lead has to sell a part of themselves to be the lead and I don't necessarily think trying to make demands, even if it screws you out of a season, is a bad thing. Most of the leads (or those that I've seen) do not come off super well.

Tayshia is coming off pretty well and I wonder how much of that is due to the fact that they actually aren't looking to set up the next bachelor from her season.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Irlandesa

[Crashcourse]

16 hours ago, catrice2 said:

 I have way more concern about how Ivan and his brother are doing because oddly people are not as accepting of his brother's mental health problems and the path it lead him to as they are Ben and Zac. hmmm  All of them took major risks in the things they divulged and they all should be applauded, but everyone acts like Ben is some special case.  

There was some discussion about Ivan's brother and the hope that he was doing ok.  However, since Ivan's brother isn't a contestant it would make sense that there isn't as much discussion about him as there is about Ben.  Also, maybe I missed it but did Ivan or his brother say that he had mental health problems? 

Ugh, I just saw in the next episode thread that JoJo and Rachel will "lend their support and advice" to Tayshia.   🙄 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Crashcourse

[Recyclorette]

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

 

Yep.  And to understand why I tend to side her "it was Bryan all along but the editing!" critique.  I know manipulation and editing can do a lot for the narrative.  I think we see it with Tayshia's season too.  But I just don't know how editing and even manipulation could have produced that confrontation.  She gave them the emotion and raw material.

Anyhoo, Peter was reportedly considered but I think he hesitated on being the lead.  Isn't that how we ended up with Arie? 

And I don't see Ben and Peter in any way alike.  I think Peter did also talk about having an eating disorder but he wasn't the walking bucket of tragedy that Ben was. I don't see manipulation on Ben's part.  I see fragility. 

I totally agree with all of the above.  I don't see any strong similarities between Ben and Peter, either.  That is being manufactured to suit Rachel's narrative.  And Peter was offered the bachelor lead, but turned it down.  I saw Peter as a mature and honest man and I'll believe his explanation over Fleiss's any day.

As for the editing excuse, I don't think there was much to work with in Bryan's case.  He's a man of very few words and it seemed his MO was to grab Rachel, pin her against a wall, and make out.  With Peter, they had lots of actual discussion and heartbreak.  There was no manipulating that breakup with all the tears and snotting all over each other in misery.  We saw Rachel's love story, all right; just not as she had planned.

[Jillibean]

I go back and forth on Rachel, but the anger she still has towards Peter, exemplified by the fact that she’s now projecting it onto an innocent guy who sort of reminds her of Peter, is a huge red flag. If as she says she was never going to choose Peter, her vitriol toward him makes no sense. Either she really did want to pick him and he wouldn’t let her, or she is being honest about him never being the choice, in which case she clearly just needed HIM to want HER for the sake of her ego, which is also not flattering. 

[catrice2]

Again, I don't watch the franchise, I am not just not willing to base all my opinions editing.  What she said was that he reminds her of Peter the way he gives you just enough. to keep you going....she did not say he reminded her of being Peter wanting to be the Bachelor.  She point blank said he thought Ben wanted to be the Bachelor based upon Ben 's actions not Peter, and went on to say something about how others have done the same and when they were cast the season didn't play out well, which makes me think she was talking about someone else.  To me she actually roasted turtleneck boy more but I think that was a combination of Peter and others she has watched on the show. I think it is fair, if you know the process and the expected end if there is any doubt in your mind you could get there, then don't go on.   I personally think she compared Brendan more to Peter overall than Ben. 

Either way, her experience with Peter was her experience, which is why I think if she wants to talk about it she can to compare someone the listeners would know...but agree she also has to take the heat that comes with it. I just feel like talking about him or using him as an example is not proof that she wants him or harbors some resentment about how things turned out.  I can separate the two....she had a negative experience with him that still bothers her,  but everything she say doesn't  mean it is about her wanting him. I use people in my past as an example all the time and I am not "hung" up on them.  Again, I also think she should leave Bachelor world, but she does want the opportunities that goes with  it which in my opinion is a contradiction.   If, however the podcast job is to give an opinion about what she thinks and feels about what she sees, then she is doing her job and should not be limited to what she can say about whom if those are her real feelings.  I honestly think Rachel's going on about diversity in the franchise is her way of settling with herself that she ever went on the show. 

She claims to have not really watched the show before, so she may not have known how it is  and how they edit.  It is funny to me how people who watch the show assume everyone does....although I agree once you plan to participate you should.  Many of the people who have been on this year claim to not have watched it at all or only a few episodes, like Dr. Joe and others, so it is possible she really didn't know what to expect, and I think they courted her so hard so they could show some fake diversity that she really thought she was special.  I also don't think they would have chosen her if her father wasn't a judge, she a lawyer with a private school background.  

I think Rachel's primary motive was that her head blew up from the attention she received from the season she was on and they played on that as well as telling her how she would be a great "black" representation. I think she wanted the travel, clothes and attention and the recognition from being the first.....that was foremost in her mind and then she decided to cash in on the opportunities because she felt like the franchise owes her something  after her edit, the racist, and other things that happened.  In general though, if a minority woman is outspoken and has opinions that people don't agree with, then they are thought of as a certain way.  Some people clearly thought Rachel should have been , "just happy to be there and included," and should shut up and follow the Bachelor game plan. 

   I never saw the Peter confrontation, but from what I've heard, I think she took some of her frustration on the producers/show out on Peter, maybe because she thought he was involved in playing a part for production.  I also don't know when she found out about the texts with his ex about furthering his business opportunities.   She was under contract so there was a lot she couldn't say, and I think she was angry about that.   I really think Rachel had a bad group of guys that were not really good choices for her....for her age, her profession, etc.  I didn't think any of them were great and Bryan was really edited as a fboy. People are still saying she had more real conversations with Peter than Bryan, when both Bryan and Rachel talk about all the deep conversations they had that were not aired...so there's that.  People DO believe the edit.   Bryan had  also dated interracially before and Peter had not, so I think that was part of it for her as well.

 I personally thought Bryan was also was there to further his business opportunities, and if so, it worked out for him.  As for Peter, Yes, I think that she did have feelings for him and wanted to explore it, but from the comments she has made she always knew there was something not right about him so she knew it would Bryan in the end.  If other contestants WHO WERE THERE  say the same, then clearly there was something the audience did not see. Both things can be true, especially when your emotions are heightened and you have all these fancy trappings, travel, etc. to distract and confuse you as well as producers whispering in your ear. I think she is on record as saying even her father thought something was off about Peter. 

But if I am honest I think most of Bachelor couples stay together for business opportunities.  Fans make basic and average looking people rich by acting as if they are so interesting after the show.  I think some who are at a certain stage or have no one knocking down their door get together , say "why not?" and "learn" to love each other later while benefitting from the residual effects of being on the show. Some just want to stay in the public eye and get free stuff and are addicted to the attention.  To me the "real" ones just go on and live their lives....but that may also be that in the old days the opportunity to make money from social media was not available to them. 

By the way, my point was that people are looking at addiction a different way. I don't expect people to give Ivan's brother any attention, and hope they don't for his sake, but it is funny to me how people rush to excuse Ben's issues and blame it on the military, Zac 's on Cancer but Ivan's family history on something else just because the paths ended differently. 

Yes, Ivan has said his brother has mental health struggles, but even if he didn't  addiction can happen to all families but is covered and thought of differently due to social and racial factors and that is a fact. 

 

[Slakkie]

14 hours ago, chocolatine said:

IIRC, Fleiss said that Peter made too many demands. Peter was/is *very* good looking and had many rabid fans among Bachelor Nation, so if he had been more humble the gig would have been his, regardless of Rachel's rants.

Like you said, everyone who comes on this show, including Rachel and Peter, has an agenda, so she's a hypocrite for calling him (or Ben) out.

He was on Ben and Ashley's podcast and his demands were to have mental health counselors available to all contestants as he found the experience a struggle.  Honestly I think he is too normal for this show.  Why anyone thinks in a month with limited interactions to LOVE someone seems a bit abnormal.  Rachel seems really really bitter - I don't get it.  I think she was upset he was not all over her.  I mean she should be happy but she still seems to live in Bitterville.

[DEL901]

10 minutes ago, Slakkie said:

He was on Ben and Ashley's podcast and his demands were to have mental health counselors available to all contestants as he found the experience a struggle.  Honestly I think he is too normal for this show.  Why anyone thinks in a month with limited interactions to LOVE someone seems a bit abnormal.  Rachel seems really really bitter - I don't get it.  I think she was upset he was not all over her.  I mean she should be happy but she still seems to live in Bitterville.

Hey, it isn’t a month, it is 45 days....not the same thing at all.  

And I agree that it is very strange that Rachel can’t seem to let go of Peter... unless... she got a lot of attention because  of that situation, more than if things had ended drama free.    If I were Bryan, I would not be amused.  

[seacliffsal]

Rachel should have known how production worked as she had already been a part of Bachelor Nation prior to leading her own season.  She may not have watched the show before, but she certainly experienced a season on her own (can't remember who the Bachelor was, but I do remember watching her on that season).  

[Recyclorette]

Rachel made it to the final 3 on Nick Viall's season.  She was well aware of what to expect as the Bachelorette.

[thehepburn]

20 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Her confrontation with Peter played out over the finale episode and ATFR, so watching those episodes is probably enough to understand what her deal is in that context. But it's not a bad season to watch overall, there are some good travel locales, and some fun "drama" when a girlfriend of one of the suitors shows up early in the season and he pretends not to know who she is. The hometown dates were interesting as well, especially Dean's.

 

I dont like Rachel but her season is not a bad one to watch. A few things to note:

1) They visit Ellen early in the season and it's fun to compare the 2 Ellen Show clips on YT with what was shown on the Ette show. This was for many first glimpse of the season since Rach's hadnt aired yet and Bryan said something that some ppl still cant believe.

 

2) Dean's hometown is the biggest WTF ever seem on the show. It's a cant miss.

 

3) The ending with Peter caused a lot of discussion. I believe series sites like The Ringer wrote several articles on it.

 

 

19 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

 

Anyhoo, Peter was reportedly considered but I think he hesitated on being the lead.  Isn't that how we ended up with Arie? 

And I don't see Ben and Peter in any way alike.  I think Peter did also talk about having an eating disorder but he wasn't the walking bucket of tragedy that Ben was. I don't see manipulation on Ben's part.  I see fragility. 

 

He was offered the job but overplayed his hand with his demands so Arie got it last min. Ppl called Arie "NotPeter" 

[Recyclorette]

6 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Again, I don't watch the franchise, I am not just not willing to base all my opinions editing.  What she said was that he reminds her of Peter the way he gives you just enough. to keep you going....she did not say he reminded her of being Peter wanting to be the Bachelor.  She point blank said he thought Ben wanted to be the Bachelor based upon Ben 's actions not Peter, and went on to say something about how others have done the same and when they were cast the season didn't play out well, which makes me think she was talking about someone else.  To me she actually roasted turtleneck boy more but I think that was a combination of Peter and others she has watched on the show. I think it is fair, if you know the process and the expected end if there is any doubt in your mind you could get there, then don't go on.   I personally think she compared Brendan more to Peter overall than Ben. 

It was after her own season that Rachel was vocal about Peter not being the next Bachelor.  That is why people are comparing that to what she is doing now with Ben.

Either way, her experience with Peter was her experience, which is why I think if she wants to talk about it she can to compare someone the listeners would know...but agree she also has to take the heat that comes with it. I just feel like talking about him or using him as an example is not proof that she wants him or harbors some resentment about how things turned out.  I can separate the two....she had a negative experience with him that still bothers her,  but everything she say doesn't  mean it is about her wanting him. I use people in my past as an example all the time and I am not "hung" up on them.  Again, I also think she should leave Bachelor world, but she does want the opportunities that goes with  it which in my opinion is a contradiction.   If, however the podcast job is to give an opinion about what she thinks and feels about what she sees, then she is doing her job and should not be limited to what she can say about whom if those are her real feelings.  I honestly think Rachel's going on about diversity in the franchise is her way of settling with herself that she ever went on the show. 

It's fine to discuss what happens on the show during a podcast.  It's not OK to use that platform to target or publicly embarrass others for your own objectives.  Giving an opinion is one thing.  Analyzing someone else as though you are a psychologist or psychiatrist is dangerous.  

She claims to have not really watched the show before, so she may not have known how it is  and how they edit.  It is funny to me how people who watch the show assume everyone does....although I agree once you plan to participate you should.  Many of the people who have been on this year claim to not have watched it at all or only a few episodes, like Dr. Joe and others, so it is possible she really didn't know what to expect, and I think they courted her so hard so they could show some fake diversity that she really thought she was special.  I also don't think they would have chosen her if her father wasn't a judge, she a lawyer with a private school background.  

Rachel reached the final 3 on the Bachelor.  She knew exactly what to expect as the Bachelorette.

I think Rachel's primary motive was that her head blew up from the attention she received from the season she was on and they played on that as well as telling her how she would be a great "black" representation. I think she wanted the travel, clothes and attention and the recognition from being the first.....that was foremost in her mind and then she decided to cash in on the opportunities because she felt like the franchise owes her something  after her edit, the racist, and other things that happened.  In general though, if a minority woman is outspoken and has opinions that people don't agree with, then they are thought of as a certain way.  Some people clearly thought Rachel should have been , "just happy to be there and included," and should shut up and follow the Bachelor game plan. 

How was Rachel's edit racist?  What "other things" happened?  It doesn't matter what color you are, targeting someone from your bully pulpit is not OK.  That is well beyond offering an opinion.

   I never saw the Peter confrontation, but from what I've heard, I think she took some of her frustration on the producers/show out on Peter, maybe because she thought he was involved in playing a part for production.  I also don't know when she found out about the texts with his ex about furthering his business opportunities.   She was under contract so there was a lot she couldn't say, and I think she was angry about that.   I really think Rachel had a bad group of guys that were not really good choices for her....for her age, her profession, etc.  I didn't think any of them were great and Bryan was really edited as a fboy. People are still saying she had more real conversations with Peter than Bryan, when both Bryan and Rachel talk about all the deep conversations they had that were not aired...so there's that.  People DO believe the edit.   Bryan had  also dated interracially before and Peter had not, so I think that was part of it for her as well.

Well, I did watch this entire season and don't see how someone who didn't can assume so much.  I do know that Rachel and Bryan have appeared in several public settings where he says next to nothing.  As for the texts you refer to, many exes of contestants have contacted Reality Steve, etc., to gain the spotlight.  In the end, it all just he said/she said. 

 I personally thought Bryan was also was there to further his business opportunities, and if so, it worked out for him.  As for Peter, Yes, I think that she did have feelings for him and wanted to explore it, but from the comments she has made she always knew there was something not right about him so she knew it would Bryan in the end.  If other contestants WHO WERE THERE  say the same, then clearly there was something the audience did not see. Both things can be true, especially when your emotions are heightened and you have all these fancy trappings, travel, etc. to distract and confuse you as well as producers whispering in your ear. I think she is on record as saying even her father thought something was off about Peter. 

Rachel was there for opportunities, too.  The only thing wrong with Peter was that he was realistic and honest about his concerns regarding the bubble they were in.  Rachel went into the process determined to have a fairytale, whether it was there or not.

But if I am honest I think most of Bachelor couples stay together for business opportunities.  Fans make basic and average looking people rich by acting as if they are so interesting after the show.  I think some who are at a certain stage or have no one knocking down their door get together , say "why not?" and "learn" to love each other later while benefitting from the residual effects of being on the show. Some just want to stay in the public eye and get free stuff and are addicted to the attention.  To me the "real" ones just go on and live their lives....but that may also be that in the old days the opportunity to make money from social media was not available to them. 

By the way, my point was that people are looking at addiction a different way. I don't expect people to give Ivan's brother any attention, and hope they don't for his sake, but it is funny to me how people rush to excuse Ben's issues and blame it on the military, Zac 's on Cancer but Ivan's family history on something else just because the paths ended differently. 

Ivan's brother is not a contestant, and he certainly sounds like he got his act together.  This is not about Tayshia picking a brother-in-law.  I'm more worried about their dad with pulmonary fibrosis.  Look up the life expectancy for that.

Yes, Ivan has said his brother has mental health struggles, but even if he didn't  addiction can happen to all families but is covered and thought of differently due to social and racial factors and that is a fact. 

In the end, I don't believe any of this will matter.  I think poor Ivan is just in the friend zone.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Recyclorette

[weightyghost]

I always find it funny when Peter is dragged for (and still dragged for), presumably, playing the game and not caring about Rachel but only wanting the publicity and the fame when her F1 was selling merch the second the finale aired, moved to LA immediately, and her full time job seems to be Bachelor commentary while Peter went back to Wisconsin or wherever he was from, back to his job as personal trainer, and went on his way. He is one very few contestants who didn't move to LA or NYC to become an influencer or full time Bachelor podcaster. 

[thehepburn]

38 minutes ago, weightyghost said:

I always find it funny when Peter is dragged for (and still dragged for), presumably, playing the game and not caring about Rachel but only wanting the publicity and the fame when her F1 was selling merch the second the finale aired, moved to LA immediately, and her full time job seems to be Bachelor commentary while Peter went back to Wisconsin or wherever he was from, back to his job as personal trainer, and went on his way. He is one very few contestants who didn't move to LA or NYC to become an influencer or full time Bachelor podcaster. 

 

As lately as this past month, he mentioned being offered the Bach lead on SM to stay relevant. It's obvious that he regrets being a diva about it, esp since the gym he opened this yr is heavily shut down by C-19 like most small businesses.

[TomGirl]

On 12/19/2020 at 7:11 PM, chocolatine said:

On a lighter note, I love that the Refinery29 article linked above talks about "a sparkly Neil Diamond engagement ring."

Hah!  I missed that.  Very funny!

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, thehepburn said:

They visit Ellen early in the season and it's fun to compare the 2 Ellen Show clips on YT with what was shown on the Ette show. This was for many first glimpse of the season since Rach's hadnt aired yet and Bryan said something that some ppl still cant believe.

What did Bryan say? I feel like I remember this vaguely but I can't remember exactly what he said.

[thehepburn]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

What did Bryan say? I feel like I remember this vaguely but I can't remember exactly what he said.

 

Short version:  he referred to Rach as "sloppy seconds"

[JudyObscure]

I had to go find this. I hadn't seen it.

 There were about six guys who were going to be on the season there.  Ellen said she had heard that one of the guys had already kissed Rachel and Rachel said yes and he was a great kisser.

Of course after that Bryan wanted to take credit so he grabbed Ellen's microphone and said, "She's a great kisser!" Crowd goes wild.

One of the guys, joking, said "He kissed me first."  Crowd laughs

Bryan, working the joke, says, "Yeah, she got my sloppy seconds."  Crown laughs. 

Bryan stood out confidently from the others in that clip, Peter with his gapped toothed smile looked like a kid, Rachel sparkled the  way only she can do.

I've always shipped Rachel and Bryan.

[Crashcourse]

I don't know why I can't post the link but the sloppy seconds joke is on youtube. 

The Bachelorette Rachel Lindsay "Bryan Kisses & Tells" on 'The Ellen Show@ - YouTube

Bryan:  "She's a great kisser"

Other guy:  "I second that"

Bryan said "He got my sloppy seconds."

Edited December 21, 2020 by Crashcourse

[thehepburn]

51 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

I don't know why I can't post the link but the sloppy seconds joke is on youtube. 

The Bachelorette Rachel Lindsay "Bryan Kisses & Tells" on 'The Ellen Show@ - YouTube

Bryan:  "She's a great kisser"

Other guy:  "I second that"

Bryan said "He got my sloppy seconds."

Exactly

[Recyclorette]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

I don't know why I can't post the link but the sloppy seconds joke is on youtube. 

The Bachelorette Rachel Lindsay "Bryan Kisses & Tells" on 'The Ellen Show@ - YouTube

Bryan:  "She's a great kisser"

Other guy:  "I second that"

Bryan said "He got my sloppy seconds."

You got it right, Crashcourse!

Edited December 21, 2020 by Recyclorette

[leighdear]

21 hours ago, weightyghost said:

I always find it funny when Peter is dragged for (and still dragged for), presumably, playing the game and not caring about Rachel but only wanting the publicity and the fame when her F1 was selling merch the second the finale aired, moved to LA immediately, and her full time job seems to be Bachelor commentary while Peter went back to Wisconsin or wherever he was from, back to his job as personal trainer, and went on his way. He is one very few contestants who didn't move to LA or NYC to become an influencer or full time Bachelor podcaster. 

It was the same with Britt, on the duo Bachelorette season with Kaitlyn.  People declared she was just a wannabe actress famewhore that would try to squeeze every last drop of recognition out of being on the show.  Yeah, not so much.....

https://heavy.com/entertainment/2020/06/bachelorette-britt-nilsson-update-jeremy-byrne/

Peter never seemed to care about the hype too much.  Rachel was great starting out the season, but she just ramped up the extra to what I thought was kind of obnoxious by the end.  Peter was one of her first one-on-one dates, so maybe he realized that the great woman he met at the beginning was starting to morph into somebody he didn't actually want.  He didn't love her, didn't see marrying her & obviously didn't want the Bachelor slot enough to fake it.  And I think she's STIL pissed off about it. 

22 hours ago, thehepburn said:

2) Dean's hometown is the biggest WTF ever seem on the show. It's a cant miss 

Absolutely.  If you don't see it for yourself, it cannot be described in words.  It was magical.  

[Recyclorette]

5 minutes ago, leighdear said:

 

Peter never seemed to care about the hype too much.  Rachel was great starting out the season, but she just ramped up the extra to what I thought was kind of obnoxious by the end.  Peter was one of her first one-on-one dates, so maybe he realized that the great woman he met at the beginning was starting to morph into somebody he didn't actually want.  He didn't love her, didn't see marrying her & obviously didn't want the Bachelor slot enough to fake it.  And I think she's STIL pissed off about it.  

This is a new viewpoint and I think it could be right on.  Rachel did change as the show went on.  I've often asked myself how I could have so liked her at the start and so despised her by the end.  I do think Peter really loved her, though.  His hesitation over a proposal could well have been his uncertainty over who Rachel truly was as the season progressed.  He never led her on and was always truthful with her about where he stood, but her ego couldn't accept that.  I, too, think she's still pissed off, and it's pretty remarkable after all this time.  It must have occurred to her at some point after the show that, if Peter really was the jerk she keeps describing, he would have easily played along and then just broken off the engagement.  And if it truly was, as she says, "always Bryan," what's still to be so bitter about?

[JudyObscure]

Okay Crashcourse got it right.  I had to remember it all the way from Youtube to here!  I still hear "she" on that last line but it doesn't matter because he or she got Bryan's sloppy seconds, he did not in any way call Rachel, sloppy seconds. That's what you call a woman who had sex with someone else just before you and he just did not say that about her even in jest.

[DEL901]

Ben is back at the gym and playing coy.  

https://www.tmz.com/2020/12/21/ben-smith-bachelorette-reacts-bachelor-rumors-rachel-lindsay-tayshia-adams/

[thehepburn]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Okay Crashcourse got it right.  I had to remember it all the way from Youtube to here!  I still hear "she" on that last line but it doesn't matter because he or she got Bryan's sloppy seconds, he did not in any way call Rachel, sloppy seconds. That's what you call a woman who had sex with someone else just before you and he just did not say that about her even in jest.

 

It's semantics and as Ellen said -- and she was there -- he shouldn't have done that in the first place.

[Irlandesa]

People has an interview up with Zac and Tayshia.  The write up is a condensed version of the short video on the page.

There were a few interesting tidbits in the video.  Zac initially wasn't cast for Clare's season.  He was part of the second group.  Or backups? So I guess he came on once the production shutdown happened.

And he thought he was going home at the rose ceremony that Clare cancelled because she decided to end her time as bachelorette. Instead, he got Tayshia.

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Irlandesa