S03.E07: The Strings That Bind Us

[Athena]

5 minutes ago, reallyjustjen said:

And to nitpick, but why would Nate’s father have listed the distances in miles and not kilometers?

Britons still use miles for road signs. They will use metric for loads of other things except distances. Since Nate's father is older, he will be even more likely to use miles. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Great Escape music!  I loved it.  That really skews to the older crowd. 

Keeley and Jack, ugh, please put this out of its misery. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

Please Show, put an end to Keeley and Jack.  It is awful to watch and I cannot stand Jack.  I think I dislike the character more than Nate.

Otherwise, this was classic Ted Lasso and I loved it. Roy punning, Jamie's growth, Sam, his father, and the player magically fixing the sign even though it appeared he had almost no training.  The fans switching places... I just loved it.

[overtherainbow]

I actually like Nate this season, he's matured I think and I liked learning more about his family/background and him being bashful is honestly pretty cute. 

I don't like Jack at all, something about her is very smarmy. If she were a man showering Keeley with gifts would look really weird. It just would. 

I enjoyed the inclusion of Sam's dad and will probably get hate for this but - felt like the interjection of an emotionally charged hate crime and the politics that came before it in this episode was really not needed and really detracted from the rest of the episode. I get the writers were trying to make a statement but...it felt too heavy handed. I know these issues are very real, but gosh, I'd like a show for once to just be a show, Ted Lasso has lost a lot of the fluffy lightheartedness that made a lot of people start watching

[angora]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I do think we're getting a redemption for Nate and I feel like they think it's a great redemption arc but unless they have Nate face his own toxic behaviour, admit fault and get help for it, it'll feel like a hollow redemption. I also don't think he can have a believable redemption arc by end of season. He's done too much harm over the series to have him be fully redeemed, and he hasn't gotten to the point where he knows WHY he needs redemption. 

Also, I dislike Jade changing her mind on Nate just because he had one crappy date who took off. It seems like we're getting Nate rewarded, rather than having him face true consequences for his actions. Sure, he has a crappy father and feels underappreciated, but he needs to face more consequences, and it feels like the show might gloss it over. There's five episodes left until the end of the season, to be fair, so MAYBE there'll be something there for Nate to have to face, but I'm already not loving the redemption he currently has.

I think I would've been on board with a Nate redemption arc that was done well, but I feel like there's just not enough time at this point, they've spent so much on Jade instead of exploring Nate's issues. I'm starting to think that, if they do still want to go this route with Nate, it'll need to be less of a redemption and more just turning a corner. Maybe it would involve leaving West Ham--Rupert fires him, he's successful but realizes it feels hollow, he starts to understand that its toxic environment isn't good for him, etc. And hopefully it would involve reaching out to Dr. Sharon or another therapist. Just the realization of, "This isn't the road I want to go down, this isn't who I want to be, and I need help to change that." I don't know if I could buy anything more than that in the five episodes we have left.

1 hour ago, reallyjustjen said:

Thought all the switches were hilarious-Will as Coach Beard was hysterical, and Dani and Isaac’s impressions of each other were LOL-worthy as well.

omg, yes! Loved that, especially when Ted told them they didn't have to do the voices, then backtracked when he realized how much they wanted to.

[braziliangirl]

On 4/26/2023 at 3:57 PM, Schweedie said:

It bothered me as well, but I saw someone elsewhere comment that they got the impression that Ted and Beard were doing what they were doing with Roy in season one - stepping back until he decided to really speak up on his own. I don't know if I agree, but I do like the theory (although if that's what they were doing I still think it was unnecessary).

Yes! That was definitely a moment of progress and I liked that, too. I just wish we'd seen what's actually led to that progress.

Love this. Totally buy this theory rewatching the scene and seeing Beard and Ted looks. 

I actually want to watch more scenes with Nate, Loved that he didn't spit in the mirror and that he seems a bit more confident (and not enttitled) even with his akwardness. I think it's sad not being able to see more of his transformation and his relationship with Ted was so rich. Let's see what happens or if they'll show us what happened. 

I know it's inevitable to compare his arc with Jamie. But I think it's more complex. Even if they had crappy dads (though I can hardly put their fathers as similar since Jamie's dad another type of awful) Jamie was successful and well praised at least in his career early on in life. Nate wasn't. 

At the same time leaking Ted's panic attack was extremely cruel. In my dream scenario. Nate would tell to the team that he was the source, apologize and face the music. But not in a punishment sort of way. More in a the truth will free/heal you. 

Beard presentation was awesome. Trent being a dork is amazing. Still love Keeley even though I will never buy the fact that she didn't know what a CFO did and who Jack was. Though heartbreak can sometimes make people do crazy things (like Ted said to Rebecca when he forgave her in season 1). 

Also like someone else said: there's no way I wouldn't like an episode that starts with Dreams by The Cramberries. Miss you, Derry Girls. 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by braziliangirl
To add that I love Sam and his dad.

[overtherainbow]

26 minutes ago, braziliangirl said:

Love this. Totally buy this theory rewatching the scene and seeing Beard and Ted looks. 

I actually want to watch more scenes with Nate, Loved that he didn't spit in the mirror and that he seems a bit more confident (and not enttitled) even with his akwardness. I think it's sad not being able to see more of his transformation and his relationship with Ted was so rich. Let's see what happens or if they'll show us what happened. 

I know it's inevitable to compare his arc with Jamie. But I think it's more complex. Even if they had crappy dads (though I can hardly put their fathers as similar since Jamie's dad another type of awful) Jamie was successful and well praised at least in his career early on in life. Nate wasn't. 

At the same time leaking Ted's panic attack was extremely cruel. In my dream scenario. Nate would tell to the team that he was the source, apologize and face the music. But not in a punishment sort of way. More in a the truth will free/heal you. 

This is what I wish the show would explore more. I can understand why Nate did it though (he was very broken at the time). We have a few more episodes left, we'll see

[Sailorgirl26]

5 hours ago, angora said:

 

Random bits I loved:

• Rebecca ordering tiramisu and to-go bottles of wine (plus one for the server!) when she realized Jack was paying for the meal
• Higgins' reaction when Isaac corner-kicked the ball into his window and he spilled hot tea on himself
• Jamie running easily ahead of the pack during Roy's conditioning training--all that hard work is definitely paying off
• Will pretending to be Beard
• The fans being so excited to watch a training where the Richmond players ran until they puked
• The device of showing the progression through the week with all the restaurants/shops opening every morning--it was just nice, and I loved the various music that accompanied these little scenes.
• Ted pointing out that they could just get Roy a plastic whistle--hee!
• Richard bringing a few bottles from his wine cellar--not the best, but good ones!--to Sam's restaurant
• Bumbercatch fixing the neon sign
• That little scene in the locker room where they were all passing the water bottles around and getting them to Will
• Trent's gleeful excitement after the match and the reactions to it--I loved, "What a fucking dork," "Yeah, but he's our dork."

Adding to this . . . 

Dani Rojas and McAdoo imitating each other because they were switching places. Ted: "You don't have to do the voices. . . " 😆

Sam's father was everything we could have hoped for -- him consoling Sam in the weight room and them dancing together in the kitchen at the end -- 100% felt them as father and son! 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Sailorgirl26

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Zaffy said:

For a show that promotes kindness, it is weird to see so many people not wanting any redemption for Nate.

I liked this one better than last weeks (I am probably the only one, lol) but I still think this season's writing is suffering.
Even if I do not mind Nate, I can't really get what his ark is supposed to be. Then we have Keeley, who this season is shown as dumber and less dynamic and less bright..
I loved most of the little things between the 3 coaches and the team, although almost everything football is so but so unrealistic. 
And things like connecting penises with rope while training, are not even funny, just creepy.
Fav part of the episode everything Sam and Ola related. Loved it.
 

I want redemption and I do think we will see a great conversation with him and Ted. How quickly it is happening, IDK, but it will come. I like that he can find himself lovable, being tortured by your past and not getting help is hard but he's a basket of issues needing help. Maybe the hostess will help him in a way the doctor helps Ted.

Keeley drives me nuts now, I try to love her but they make her the dippy blonde and any half way decent remark is made into something spectacular. I don't see chemistry between her and Jack but maybe others do. That is usually "acting" since many actors don't like each other but I just don't see it.  And I agree with prop errors but I don't think the behind the scenes Lasso crew give it much thought.

Love the scenes with Sam and dad and Roy and Jamie.

 

[daisybumble]

There were many things I liked about this episode (and none of them involved KeeleyJack or NateJade). But the best was the use of “Sometime in the Morning” by the Monkees.  I love that song, and I love this show.

[Sakura12]

Besides the Keeley and Nate storylines. I liked this ep.

I really love how much this team as grown together. Jamie has let go of his ego and became a real team player. Number 4 should be trust. 

I don't care about Nate's love life. I would rather have seen him with his team and how different they are than Ted's. Yes they win but they all probably hate him. 

I hate when shows decide to separate everyone and they all still continue to think it makes a good story.  When the reason most love shows because of the character interactions. 

I loved seeing Keeley and Rebecca hanging out. The team listening to Jamie being a team player and the team helping clean up Sam's restaurant. It's also good to see a good father and son Relationship. Even with making Sam uncomfortable with the women in his life. Lol

[Insert Username]

4 hours ago, overtherainbow said:

I actually like Nate this season, he's matured I think and I liked learning more about his family/background and him being bashful is honestly pretty cute. 

I don't like Jack at all, something about her is very smarmy. If she were a man showering Keeley with gifts would look really weird. It just would. 

I enjoyed the inclusion of Sam's dad and will probably get hate for this but - felt like the interjection of an emotionally charged hate crime and the politics that came before it in this episode was really not needed and really detracted from the rest of the episode. I get the writers were trying to make a statement but...it felt too heavy handed. I know these issues are very real, but gosh, I'd like a show for once to just be a show, Ted Lasso has lost a lot of the fluffy lightheartedness that made a lot of people start watching

All of this -except the Nate stuff. I don’t care about him at all at this point. 

Also, Jack and Keeley have zero chemistry, so that makes their scenes harder to watch. Keeley is risking the respect of her employees. Jack strikes me as a spoiled rich girl who gets (or takes) whatever she wants before getting bored and moving on to the next shiny object. I hate how ditzy and needy Keeley is with her too - where’s the strong, confident, secure Keeley from last year?

Of course Roy continues to be the best and I love Trent Crimm as the “Greek Chorus”

 

inhabe to watch every episode twice just to catch all of the background stuff- the actors really are all in on their characters.

[juno]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I hate when shows decide to separate everyone and they all still continue to think it makes a good story.  When the reason most love shows because of the character interactions. 

This is my problem this season. Nate has his own story now and I can't figure out why? He is not connected to Richmond, Ted or anyone else. He was a minor character for 2 seasons and somehow he now has his own storyline. Even if his character wasn't a POS I still wouldn't care about his story.

With Keeley, same problem. No interaction with the main storyline except bud scenes with Rebecca. Unlike Nate, I like her, but her scenes are boring and just show her in a rom-com relationship with Jack. If they gave her a storyline connected to her job, I would appreciate it.

[MerBearHou]

6 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Please Show, put an end to Keeley and Jack.  It is awful to watch and I cannot stand Jack.  I think I dislike the character more than Nate.

Otherwise, this was classic Ted Lasso and I loved it. Roy punning, Jamie's growth, Sam, his father, and the player magically fixing the sign even though it appeared he had almost no training.  The fans switching places... I just loved it.

I don’t think I can watch Keeley any longer — clueless persona drives me batty — it is NOT cute in a grown-ass woman.

Otherwise, loved the episode.

[Xantar]

10 hours ago, Zaffy said:

For a show that promotes kindness, it is weird to see so many people not wanting any redemption for Nate.
 

With respect, I think that is a very one-dimensional view of the show. Ted Lasso isn’t simply about kindness. It’s about how kindness is difficult because the world is sucky and cynical but being kind is an admirable thing. Ted gets insulted on the streets and keeps on moving forward with a smile. Sam is subjected to horrible racism but ultimately maintains his positive outlook with his friends and teammates. Roy is angry and disappointed, but he still finds it within himself to hug Jamie when he needs it.

And the thing is all of these people are still struggling. Richmond is still on a losing streak. Ted is a mess. Sam is…well, he didn’t get to show up that bigoted politician, did he?

Contrast this with Nate. When has he shown a moment of kindness or generosity to another person this season? And yet, everything is just kind of going his way. He is famous and respected. He got a date with a woman he has a crush on. You know who else is having everything go their way without showing any kindness towards another person? Rupert.

There is still time, and I do see hints that the writers have a downfall in store for Nate. They seem to know that he has issues with entitlement and insecurity. There is definitely room for him to have to face his flaws. But the question is will there be enough time for him to turn it around and become somebody we root for again? I’m not so sure.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Xantar

[MerBearHou]

Sam’s storyline with his wonderful father, the restaurant, the team repairing it as a surprise to Sam — well, for me, that was one of the most moving stories of the series.  My heart broke and I was so teary, then in the end, my heart was about to burst in a good way.  Beautifully done, show.  

[twoods]

The players cleaning up Sam’s restaurant made me cry. The friendship between the players is, IMO, the heart of the show. I loved all of it- Dani and Isaac mimicking each other, the red string, and Jamie deciding he doesn’t need to be up front. 
Sam’s father was so warm and positive, I can see why Sam is such a wonderful person. 
Jack and Keeley- blech.

I don’t mind seeing Nate, I just wish there was more movement to his possible reconciliation with Ted. I really miss them, and don’t like how isolated him and Keeley are from the rest of the group.

Edited April 27, 2023 by twoods

[Schweedie]

1 hour ago, twoods said:

The players cleaning up Sam’s restaurant made me cry. The friendship between the players is, IMO, the heart of the show. I loved all of it- Dani and Isaac mimicking each other, the red string, and Jamie deciding he doesn’t need to be up front.

Amen. Found/chosen family and friendship is my absolute favourite thing. There's a reason why Two Aces is my favourite episode from season one, with the team finally starting to properly bond.

8 hours ago, braziliangirl said:

12 hours ago, Schweedie said:

It bothered me as well, but I saw someone elsewhere comment that they got the impression that Ted and Beard were doing what they were doing with Roy in season one - stepping back until he decided to really speak up on his own.

Love this. Totally buy this theory rewatching the scene and seeing Beard and Ted looks. 

Yeah - Ted is *very* quick to ask if there's something Jamie wants to say as soon as Jamie hums in the dressing room during half time, and he does sort of sound like he's been waiting for it. I might choose to believe that theory.

[debraran]

In a quick followup on Nate in last episode:

in an article someone asked about Nate's change of hair color. I was tired watching but still noted it but thought maybe it was the lighting.  They said "

Why does Nate's hair turn GREY in Ted Lasso?

The actor revealed that the hair color of the character was a deliberate change in order to show the character's transformation."

I hope for the "Lasso" redemption ending, he was awful but he's not evil like Rupert. I see the vulnerability and massive insecurity and don't think he could be Rupert.  They also pointed out how Ted never removed him from the Lego game display, something I must have seen but missed. He has hope.

As obnoxious as Nate is, seeing him call his mom or grandmother about how to talk to someone, the dumb diorama done out of copying his dad and insecurity and seeing how much his culture and just being human needs reassurance from parents he is okay. That type of person is never attractive and in so need of mental health help but I dislike the "Jack" types much more, rich, no redeeming qualities, thinking they could buy people and get fake love for the baubles they throw at them. Giving of themselves is so much harder and buying things when you have the money is so much easier. I never found that attractive at all and when I did date a gentleman who was going to have even more money in his career, he joked to someone if we married, I'd give half his money away and I'd never be the "diamonds are a girls best friend" type. He's right and I'm glad I didn't, he ended up making big mistake trying to get even more money and fell from his pedestal. So that's why I love Ted, his softness and heart and smarts and I see Nate as not one dimensional although I recall telling my daughter early on "I don't like him!" lol

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by debraran

[DEL901]

5 hours ago, Xantar said:

With respect, I think that is a very one-dimensional view of the show. Ted Lasso isn’t simply about kindness. It’s about how kindness is difficult because the world is sucky and cynical but being kind is an admirable thing. Ted gets insulted on the streets and keeps on moving forward with a smile. Sam is subjected to horrible racism but ultimately maintains his positive outlook with his friends and teammates. Roy is angry and disappointed, but he still finds it within himself to hug Jamie when he needs it.

And the thing is all of these people are still struggling. Richmond is still on a losing streak. Ted is a mess. Sam is…well, he didn’t get to show up that bigoted politician, did he?

Contrast this with Nate. When has he shown a moment of kindness or generosity to another person this season? And yet, everything is just kind of going his way. He is famous and respected. He got a date with a woman he has a crush on. You know who else is having everything go their way without showing any kindness towards another person? Rupert.

There is still time, and I do see hints that the writers have a downfall in store for Nate. They seem to know that he has issues with entitlement and insecurity. There is definitely room for him to have to face his flaws. But the question is will there be enough time for him to turn it around and become somebody we root for again? I’m not so sure.

With respect to Nate getting a date with the woman he has a crush on….. the fact that he did have a crush on Jade highlights his issues.   She was terrible to him last season and this.  Then he gets dumped and she is kind one time because she feels sorry for him and BOOM, he has a crush.  

[PurpleTentacle]

16 hours ago, Thalia said:

From what I can tell there are two groups when it comes to Nate:  Group one will accept a Nate redemption arc, but they want to see him suffer first.  Group two wants to see him suffer, period.  We are over halfway through the season and it is beginning to look like the only bad thing that has happened to him is that his new boss tried to tow his green mini. 

I don't necessarily need to see him suffer, but I need to see him feel way worse about what he's done, than he seems to be right now and then I need to see him grovel. Not a nice little apology, but sobbing on his knees grovel, swearing he'll do everything he can to make it up to Ted and the team.

14 hours ago, Crs97 said:

That’s my issue, and maybe it’s more realistic that he doesn’t apologize to Ted.  I have certainly had relationships end badly and not gotten closure.  For all I know they think they are the ones who were treated badly.  The problem is that the show made it clear that Nate is toxic and now seems to think we care about his love life.

Agreed. This is TV. If they don't want to give us closure, fine. But don't parade him in front of us every week. If they wanted to go this way, they should have stopped giving him screentime after season 2.

 

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Why does Nate's hair turn GREY in Ted Lasso?

The actor revealed that the hair color of the character was a deliberate change in order to show the character's transformation."

I thought it was just Nick Mohammed getting grey. To some people it happens pretty early in life.

As a deliberate choice that just seems weird...

[Schweedie]

11 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I thought it was just Nick Mohammed getting grey. To some people it happens pretty early in life.

As a deliberate choice that just seems weird...

Yeah, Nick is nowhere near that grey in real life, or if he is, he dyes it. I remember they came out and explained pretty soon after season two ended that it was a deliberate character thing they'd written in. I keep waiting for his hair to get darker this season as he sheds his ugly side, but so far it seems unchanged.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

As a deliberate choice that just seems weird...

I think it's an interesting physical change to show the inner change going on within Nate at the time. Maybe a tad too on the nose, but him having some black roots showing through his hair this episode is another symbolic way to show how he's slowly getting back on his redemption arc.

I may not LOVE the symbolism but it makes sense to me as to why they want to go that route. I just hope his hair isn't fully black by season's end; I don't think he's nearly there and I don't think he'll BE there for quite some time. It would be interesting if he ended the season with mixed grey/black hair, to showcase how he's not fully redeemed but maybe a combination of both sides to him. I don't think Nate wants to be a bad person, he's just too broken by his own insecurities and it's going to take a long time, if ever, to get through his insecurities that make him lash out so violently toward people. 

6 hours ago, Xantar said:

There is still time, and I do see hints that the writers have a downfall in store for Nate. They seem to know that he has issues with entitlement and insecurity. There is definitely room for him to have to face his flaws. But the question is will there be enough time for him to turn it around and become somebody we root for again? I’m not so sure.

This is my personal issue. I don't mind a redemption arc for Nate at all. They've done a decent job at showing how he's not a totally terrible person like Rupert, he's just a very broken man who has let his insecurities control him and how he chooses to lash out because it makes him feel better about himself. But he's shown signs that he doesn't necessarily WANT to be that way. I don't think he gets WHY he's so terrible (and that'll be the true turning point in his character, if he can admit his flaws and be willing to put in the work to change), which will be something he needs to face, but I think it does show that he's not irredeemable.

But it's all about him getting to the point of redemption by end of season, and I do not see a realistic path to have him be redeemed by both the characters and the audience. So if it IS leading to partial redemption but people still holding him accountable at the end of the season, I'll be fine with that. But if he gets everything he wants and only returning a simple apology, I'll be upset because it's going to take a lot more time for Nate to be forgiven. 

What made Jamie's redemption arc work is that HE put in the work, and it took a while to do so. He not only saw his flaws and could admit them, he apologized to people BUT also showed his redemption through actions. An apology scene wasn't the thing that turned Jamie's character around; he had to show that he was changed with supporting Sam and the team and also learning to pass the ball. 

For Nate to earn his own redemption, I'm not sure what kind of actions he would need to take. His redemption is different than Jamie's. But he has a lot of work to put in, and it's something I don't think can be fixed by season's end, not realistically and in a way that makes people happy about it. 

I do agree that the isolation with certain characters is hurting the season a little bit. 

[PurpleTentacle]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think it's an interesting physical change to show the inner change going on within Nate at the time. Maybe a tad too on the nose, but him having some black roots showing through his hair this episode is another symbolic way to show how he's slowly getting back on his redemption arc.

I think that's something you'd find in the book "symbolism for dummies". It's way too on the nose, especially if you are going to reverse it. I hope they don't stoop so low...

[MicheleinPhilly]

This episode had bits I loved and bits I hated so while it wasn't nearly as successful as last week's, it was at least better for me than the first few episodes of the season. 

Anything that doesn't have to do with Richmond just seems like a colossal waste of time given how little time we have left. I mean, Jason Sudeikis basically feels like a supporting character this season while KJPR gets LOADS of screen time. I have adored Keeley's relationship with Rebecca since season 1 but they need to figure out a way to get her back to Richmond ASAP because her entire arc is just a time suck. 

I laughed when Nate's diorama got crushed. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't care about Nate, I'm not interested in a redemption arc for him, I'd be happy never to see him again. His creepy "showing up at the restaurant and peering through the window every day" did not endear me to him nor did his creating some Jack-in-the-box from hell to ask a woman on a date. 

LOVED getting to meet Sam's father and seeing where Sam gets it from. And the team banding together to repair the restaurant? *weeps* 🤗

All of the Richmond scenes made me giddy. Please let the show focus on THE TEAM for the remainder of the season and not these stupid side plots. Pretty please. 

Also, more Mae. Please and thank you. 

[Night Cheese]

My problem with the redemption arc is that I don't think the writers will have Nate make amends with everyone who needs it. Sure, they'll focus on Ted and Nate, but I'm pretty sure Ted has already forgiven Nate. I'm sure he would appreciate a sincere apology and to be able to talk things over with Nate, but he's essentially already forgiven him. But are we going to see Nate apologize to everyone else that he's been an absolute a*hole to? Will Kitman? Colin? The West Ham players he berated and humiliated and put on the "dum-dum line"? We can tie all of these actions to his deep, deep insecurities and undeserved feelings of entitlement, but he's still a pretty crappy person and he needs, at a minimum, to apologize to all of the people he has been awful to, not just Ted.

He also needs some serious therapy, which we also don't have time to see play out in the remaining episodes. This episode had Siri calling him "Wunderkind". Maybe I'm reading too much into that and the writers just threw it in as a gag, but the fact that he needs to hear people (slash AI) call him "Wunderkind" is pretty messed up. 

I guess I'm not opposed to redemption for Nate, I just don't think there is enough time to do it properly. And if they're going to do it cheaply, they shouldn't do it at all.

[monakane]

The relationship with Keely and Jack is inappropriate since Jack is funding Keely's company.  Also, I don't like all the love bombing.  Those are red flags for me.

I'm still hoping Roy and Keely are end game.  It doesn't seem like it's going that way.

[Enigma X]

1 minute ago, Night Cheese said:

My problem with the redemption arc is that I don't think the writers will have Nate make amends with everyone who needs it. Sure, they'll focus on Ted and Nate, but I'm pretty sure Ted has already forgiven Nate. I'm sure he would appreciate a sincere apology and to be able to talk things over with Nate, but he's essentially already forgiven him. But are we going to see Nate apologize to everyone else that he's been an absolute a*hole to? Will Kitman? Colin? The West Ham players he berated and humiliated and put on the "dum-dum line"? We can tie all of these actions to his deep, deep insecurities and undeserved feelings of entitlement, but he's still a pretty crappy person and he needs, at a minimum, to apologize to all of the people he has been awful to, not just Ted.

He also needs some serious therapy, which we also don't have time to see play out in the remaining episodes. This episode had Siri calling him "Wunderkind". Maybe I'm reading too much into that and the writers just threw it in as a gag, but the fact that he needs to hear people (slash AI) call him "Wunderkind" is pretty messed up. 

I guess I'm not opposed to redemption for Nate, I just don't think there is enough time to do it properly. And if they're going to do it cheaply, they shouldn't do it at all.

All of this, and let's say he does apologize to all those who need an apology, there is a healthy and nontoxic way to show that some of these people can't accept his apology now or ever. But it will either be all or nothing.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, Night Cheese said:

My problem with the redemption arc is that I don't think the writers will have Nate make amends with everyone who needs it. Sure, they'll focus on Ted and Nate, but I'm pretty sure Ted has already forgiven Nate. I'm sure he would appreciate a sincere apology and to be able to talk things over with Nate, but he's essentially already forgiven him. But are we going to see Nate apologize to everyone else that he's been an absolute a*hole to? Will Kitman? Colin? The West Ham players he berated and humiliated and put on the "dum-dum line"? We can tie all of these actions to his deep, deep insecurities and undeserved feelings of entitlement, but he's still a pretty crappy person and he needs, at a minimum, to apologize to all of the people he has been awful to, not just Ted.

He also needs some serious therapy, which we also don't have time to see play out in the remaining episodes. This episode had Siri calling him "Wunderkind". Maybe I'm reading too much into that and the writers just threw it in as a gag, but the fact that he needs to hear people (slash AI) call him "Wunderkind" is pretty messed up. 

I guess I'm not opposed to redemption for Nate, I just don't think there is enough time to do it properly. And if they're going to do it cheaply, they shouldn't do it at all.

I agree there is no time left to fully redeem him, but he could hit rock bottom and take the first step to redemption…maybe his final scene could be him speaking with Dr Sharon?

[Kabota]

10 hours ago, Schweedie said:

Yeah - Ted is *very* quick to ask if there's something Jamie wants to say as soon as Jamie hums in the dressing room during half time, and he does sort of sound like he's been waiting for it. I might choose to believe that theory.

I'd considered the possibility, as well, but in season 1 with Roy, we were clued in that Ted had a strategy to make him step up. The writers shouldn't have to spoon-feed us every motivation, but given that the coaches several times joked about Jamie being a Precious Moments figurine and a fragile little b.... when working the team around Zava, I'm more inclined to think they just underestimated him? Idk, it's a classic coach's dilemma: whether to wait until a player matures/accepts the mantle of leadership/responsibility or whether to push them into that position for the betterment of the team. (Striker may be a flashier position, but as the playmaker, he's basically initiating/directing the action. He's here, he's there!)

As far as Nate goes. It's as if the writers are trying to front-load sympathy against whatever (Rupert-induced) drama is going to happen between now and the end of the season. So far, Nate is "the hottest coach in the Premier League." He can be his kinder self because he's getting the affirmation he craves. But if things start to pick up for Richmond, which we have every right to expect, Ted is going to start receiving some of that limelight. And Rupert is going to up the pressure. Maybe we're supposed to believe that his success as a coach and his budding relationship with Jade is helping his self esteem (no more spitting?), and he'll be able to handle things (Drama! Evil Rupert sabotage!) better? There's not a lot of time left, though, and is that enough groundwork? 

I'm completely content if his arc ends with some small personal amends and him heading to therapy. He doesn't need to love bomb them. (I'm not down with it ending with him coming back to Richmond tbh.)

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Kabota

[Abra]

There's no way Coach Beard hasn't been pegged. He just knows better than to tell Jane, so he has to let her leave her little hints so she doesn't get crazy jealous. Again.

[kwnyc]

Nate is a hot mess who did some terrible things. Nick Mohammed is such a good actor that Nate's behavior in this episode makes you melt a little. He, too, is like his father: critical and demanding, quick to say terrible things. But he's also got some of his mother in him, and the look of joy on his face as he approaches Jade with his pop-up invite is sweet.

I realize I particularly enjoyed the quiet subplot of the fans getting Total Footballed. And how throughout the week, more and more fans came to watch practice.

"It's their team, we're just borrowing it for awhile," is one of the most important things Ted has said. It shows a Zen-like awareness of both the individual and the whole. And I think that's something he's learned at Richmond. When it's time for him to go, he'll go with grace, and without regret 

Also: Trent Crimm's book will probably be called "The Lasso Way: Total Football."

[Night Cheese]

9 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I agree there is no time left to fully redeem him, but he could hit rock bottom and take the first step to redemption…maybe his final scene could be him speaking with Dr Sharon?

I'd like that--it's a reasonable compromise to the lack of time available to fully address this storyline. But I stand by needing to inlcude him apologizing to the other guys as well. Especially Colin, given what we've learned about him this season.

[shapeshifter]

18 minutes ago, Kabota said:

As far as Nate goes. It's as if the writers are trying to front-load sympathy against whatever (Rupert-induced) drama is going to happen between now and the end of the season. So far, Nate is "the hottest coach in the Premier League." He can be his kinder self because he's getting the affirmation he craves. But if things start to pick up for Richmond, which we have every right to expect, Ted is going to start receiving some of that limelight. And Rupert is going to up the pressure. Maybe we're supposed to believe that his success as a coach and his budding relationship with Jade is helping his self esteem (no more spitting?), and he'll be able to handle things (Drama! Evil Rupert sabotage!) better? There's not a lot of time left, though, and is that enough groundwork? 

I'm completely content if his arc ends with some small personal amends and him heading to therapy. He needs it.

Yes to all of this👆 plus, I expect in the end it will come down to Ted being forgiving rather than there being anything Nate could say or do to deserve forgiveness, because, after all, that is the Total Lasso Way. 

[bad things are bad]

On 4/26/2023 at 3:46 AM, AngieBee1 said:

it did make me want to hop a plane to London, so I guess it worked?

You should do that thing if possible.  London is fantastic 

[Stuckathome]

I really do not like Keeley with Jack because yes, I wanted her to stick with Roy. Still haven't given up hope. I do LOVE however how they are handling the relationship in terms of Rebecca's reaction. She just accepts that her friend is now dating a woman and wants all the gossip and details. Compare that with an episode years ago of SATC when Samantha dated a woman and the others gave her looks of disgust and just demanded explanations and justifications etc. I predict that Jack will continue her Rupertesque love bombing. Given what she did with comping the dinner bill by surprise, I wouldnt' be shocked if the fact that she even invested in KJPR from the start was due to her infatuation with Keeley. Yep, that is my prediction----Keeley will discover (maybe from Barbara) that this was all a big plan of Jack's to get what she wanted. 

[Phebemarie]

Could the snow globes be gifts from Jack to Barbara?  It could explain why there are so many of them.  I still think Barbara is going to be the Elinor to Keely's Marianne (Sense and Sensibility).

[DearEvette]

I liked this episode a lot.  These last two are beginning to make me feel better about the season as a whole when I was not sure about it. 

I think I liked this one because it incorporated a lot of the elements I absolutely love about the show:

- Ted being Ted with the team --  folksy, a little enigmatic, a little pie -eyed, funny, a lot inspiring

- A ton of Team face time.  The jewel in the crown of the show is the team's interaction with each other and we were fed in this one

- Funny.  There were so many great, funny moments.  Beard's Total football presentation, Roy's quipping, the perfect deployment of the Pub crew, all the throwaway moments and sight gags

- The characters are really dialed into themselves and and the use of character history. We know these people and the show remembered that we did.

- But mostly:

13 hours ago, twoods said:

The players cleaning up Sam’s restaurant made me cry. The friendship between the players is, IMO, the heart of the show. I loved all of it- Dani and Isaac mimicking each other, the red string, and Jamie deciding he doesn’t need to be up front. 
Sam’s father was so warm and positive, I can see why Sam is such a wonderful person. 

This.  I also got a little verklempt.  This is what I love the most about the show that kinda sums up all my previous points into one.  This warm, found family aspect that they used as a coda for this episode just made it all just work for me.

I am still not on board with Jack/Kelley.  Even less so if that is possible.  I honestly did not think that we were supposed to believe that Jane Austen "signature" on the book was supposed to really be her signature.  I thought it was all part of Jack's trying to be cute to go along with the 'you go girl'.  Which is another tick in the minus column for me for Jack.  Who defaces a friggin' rare first edition like that.  WTF?

I did love that Rebecca put added expensive wines and dessert to their dinner out once she learned Jack was footing the bill.  And how classy to order one for the server.  Go Rebecca!

Also, has Keeley always been this invested int he color pink before?  I don't recall seeing her wear/surrounded by so much pink all the time.

Finally, Nate.  I think of all the things, this is the worst storyline for me.  The whole Jade thing makes no sense to me.  For a show that is usually very good about connecting the dots, this one has no connective tissue. At all. 

Also, they did too good of a job making Nate a terrible person.  Not just a 'hurt people, hurt people' type of person, but an objectively terrible person.  There were too many scenes where he was just nasty in his soul for me to forget because he is also an insecure bumbler. 

Look, they can "redeem' him as long as that redemption doesn't include Richmond welcoming him back into the fold with open arms.  He was nasty Will and Collin, he feels good when he is humiliating other people,  and he betrayed Ted on a fundamental level.  Even if he were to apologize, I would never trust him not to revert the next time he felt unappreciated.  And lest we not forget, even this season we saw a man that can't even greet a co-worker with a simple good morning.  Right now, with his scenes with his family and his awkwardness, I feel manipulated, not like I am being led on an organic character journey.

[AD55]

5 hours ago, Kabota said:

I'd considered the possibility, as well, but in season 1 with Roy, we were clued in that Ted had a strategy to make him step up. The writers shouldn't have to spoon-feed us every motivation, but given that the coaches several times joked about Jamie being a Precious Moments figurine and a fragile little b.... when working the team around Zava, I'm more inclined to think they just underestimated him? Idk, it's a classic coach's dilemma: whether to wait until a player matures/accepts the mantle of leadership/responsibility or whether to push them into that position for the betterment of the team. (Striker may be a flashier position, but as the playmaker, he's basically initiating/directing the action. He's here, he's there!)

This seems right to me. The coaches assumed Jamie wouldn't want to switch with anyone (I don't think that was a ploy), so I don't believe they expected him to fully invest in the new strategy--much less point out that executing Total Football meant having the team go through him. It reminded me of when Roy told Jamie he didn't deserve to be coached. A consistent theme is Jamie being underestimated and then having to prove himself.  I haven't fully thought this through, but the first instance of this may have been his making the extra pass at the end of season 1.

 

[LilJen]

 

On 4/26/2023 at 6:19 PM, angora said:

omg, yes! Loved that, especially when Ted told them they didn't have to do the voices, then backtracked when he realized how much they wanted to.

I feel we were robbed of Isaac running around cones singing “DANI ROJAS, DANI ROJAS!”

[Athena5217]

On 4/26/2023 at 11:25 AM, AD55 said:

I  can almost handwave that Jack found the one copy of a 750 print run that Austen inscribed to a relative, but according to the Jane Austen's House website, the first edition was published in 3 volumes: https://janeaustens.house/object/sense-and-sensibility/.

The fact that Keeley only got the first volume didn’t bother me—maybe Jack just gave  her the first volume because that’s what she could buy. The point seemed to be, “Look how little I care about money because I’m willing to deface a very valuable rare book for you instead of donating it to one of our country’s fine libraries in your name where it can be properly cared for.” Not a fan of Jack anymore.

[lovinbob]

On 4/26/2023 at 3:00 PM, MerBearStare said:

It's like that line in Shawshank Redemption - get rich or die trying."

My favorite movie, so I have to nitpick. The line is "Get busy living or get busy dying." Words to live by. :)

Jade is definitely a socially awkward person so maybe she's perfect for Nate.

I don't think the show is trying to handwave Nate's behavior. I think they are showing that Nate is a very flawed human. There's no way this season ends without him owning up to his terrible behavior. 

But I also hope that Beard and Rebecca are the ones to make Nate see the error of his ways. Forcefully and with malice. And maybe they could bring back Dr. Sharon for a little unspoken, side-eyed admonishment.

I forgot to add: I knew that I knew Sam’s dad from somewhere; it was driving me nuts. Then it came to me — he was on S2 of Game of Thrones! He was one of the bad guys from Qarth!
 

Edited April 28, 2023 by lovinbob

[khyber]

On 4/26/2023 at 2:52 PM, EtheltoTillie said:

Keeley and Jack, ugh, please put this out of its misery. 

Preach!!!

[kwnyc]

I realize part of the problem of Keeley and Jack is that Jack is not a real person. That is, we know very little of her character. She might be a Rupert-style baddie, but we saw plenty of evidence of Rupert's assholery. We've only seen Jack fly in and out and sweep Keeley off her feet. Other than their drunken first kiss, we haven't really seen what makes them a specific couple. Jack could be a man, and it wouldn't matter. Right now, she's just a cardboard cutout.

[MerBearHou]

I have grown to so dislike the ditzy Keeley of this season that I do not root for Roy to reunite with her any more.  He deserves better.  

[Atlanta]

The love bombing is a huge red flag when it comes to being in a relationship with a narcissist. Rupert is def a narc and possibly Jack. HG Tudor on Youtube has great videos about narcissists and their processes. I also think Jack has the charm of a cockroach and her making Keeley announce to the office about their relationship was mega cringe. She's going to go psycho on Keeley soon. Get her back with Roy!!!

I loved Sam's dad and the team fixing up the restaurant. 

[DearEvette]

On 4/26/2023 at 4:17 PM, EtheltoTillie said:

Nate's father's map seemed stalker-y to me! 

I actually thought that was rather sweet.  It doesn't come off as stalkery if it is  compiled after the fact.  Also it is a great nod to continuity.  In S1, Nate mentions his father is a cartographer and he always measures things in distance, for instance he would say Nate is x/fraction of miles tall, stuff like that.

[DEL901]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I actually thought that was rather sweet.  It doesn't come off as stalkery if it is  compiled after the fact.  Also it is a great nod to continuity.  In S1, Nate mentions his father is a cartographer and he always measures things in distance, for instance he would say Nate is x/fraction of miles tall, stuff like that.

And because this was years ago, he would use miles rather than kilometres. 

[Captain Carrot]

I've been thinking of Jade and her behavior towards Nate and I realized that we may have misinterpreted her behavior in S2.

I've worked in customer service, so I should have realized that Jade is the face of the restaurant as the hostess, but she doesn't make up the policy for things like the window seat. The tool of a manager does. My assumption is that he set guidelines about who could sit in the 'good table' and per his criteria Nate didn't qualify. So Jade was actually going against the manager's policy when she changed her mind and gave the table to Nate.

I'm thinking that she doesn't like Nate when he doesn't have any confidence, but she also doesn't like him when he goes to the other extreme and does things like whistle for his parents. (She did say she's picky). This would explain why she started showing interest in Nate when he stood up to the model about his choice to come to the restaurant. He showed backbone without turning into a prick.

I'm also thinking that we haven't gotten to Nate's redemption arc yet. We're just seeing him get to the emotional place he needs to be in to realize that he needs redemption. And I think Jade will be important for that. She wasn't impressed by his new job, so I doubt she would be impressed by Rupert. I have a feeling that she's going to act as a counter to Rupert's ability to bring out the worst in Nate and make Nate realize that he needs to make things right with Ted. (As I'm typing this I'm also wondering if Rupert will make a move on her).