S04.E04: Honeymoon States

[TexasGal]

Quote

As Roman, Kendall, and Shiv navigate a misstep with Matsson, the Waystar team discusses a pivotal recommendation to the board ahead of the GoJo sale. Angling for position, Kendall seeks support from Stewy and Hugo.

Airdate: 04.16.2023

[Paws]

Can Hugo get a shirt in the proper neck size? Omg his tiny little neck.

[BlackberryJam]

Marcia’s back!

Shiv is pregnant. Greg is such an idiot. Kendall still wants validation. Gerri’s hair look great.

[buttersister]

8 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Shiv is pregnant

Hopefully, that fall didn't do anything.

[Athena5217]

I can’t believe Marcia said she was having a taxi called for Kerri to take her to the subway to go back to her apartment. Not a taxi to her apartment—just to the subway. Marcia is not pulling punches.

Having Shiv be pregnant seemed a little soap operaish to me.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

They are really throwing everything at us in the final season. Death, marriage, pregnancy and an inconclusive will. Greg's inheritance literally inconclusive. Marked with a question mark, ha!

Willa is awesome. I loved when Marcia gave her congrats on the wedding and said to Willa "look how far you've come", Willa answered back with and you, as well. That insult fell off of her like water off a duck and she threw Marcia's shade right back at her! I like how she has no illusions about who she is and what she's doing. And she was re-doing Logan's apartment at his wake! (or whatever it technically was, probably not a wake.)

So to me, it looked like it was an underline on the piece of paper. It started as an underline and ended as a strike-through. If it had been a strike-through, it probably would have started with a line through the K and ended as an underline. Not that it matters, Logan had probably changed his mind after he wrote it. But at some point he did have Kendall in mind, whether or not he underlined it as emphasis or marked it out.

Did we already know Kendall's middle name was Logan? Probably, but I'd forgotten it. Kendall may actually be a killer. A little light blackmail there at the end with Hugo. He seems ruthless enough to take Logan's place.

Roman on the other hand, while being a slimeball on the outside seems to have a soft center. He helped Kerry when she spilt all her stuff and asked Marcia if all that was really necessary. It seemed like he really felt for her in that moment, past blow job and omelet nipple jokes notwithstanding. All the while Greg was being a slimeball with his commentary about Kerry. Greg really tries to ingratiate himself with whoever happens to have power at the moment. (Which obviously could be said about a lot of characters. Still, he's so transparent.)

Speaking of slime, Tom really made me feel icky this episode. It seemed he was trying to manipulate Shiv while she was in a vulnerable state (her dad dying) while reminding her of when they first got together and she had been having a hard time (so also vulnerable). I hope when he finds out Shiv is pregnant, he finds out at the same time that it's not his baby.

[Pop Tart]

8 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

They are really throwing everything at us in the final season. Death, marriage, pregnancy and an inconclusive will. Greg's inheritance literally inconclusive. Marked with a question mark, ha!

That wasn’t his will, just some things he’d written about his choices for various things (including his funeral?), which is why everyone was saying it wasn’t legally binding. No clue why he’d write Greg’s name, but loved the jokes that came with that.

12 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

All the while Greg was being a slimeball with his commentary about Kerry. Greg really tries to ingratiate himself with whoever happens to have power at the moment. (Which obviously could be said about a lot of characters. Still, he's so transparent.)

They capture so well how the lowest power brokers often go over the top in their behavior to imitate and impress the more powerful.

[txhorns79]

11 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

It seemed he was trying to manipulate Shiv while she was in a vulnerable state (her dad dying) while reminding her of when they first got together and she had been having a hard time (so also vulnerable).

I don't think it seems like he is manipulating her.  He is trying to manipulate her.  He has no other cards to play.  He backed the wrong horse and now he's essentially over.  

 

14 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Roman on the other hand, while being a slimeball on the outside seems to have a soft center. He helped Kerry when she spilt all her stuff and asked Marcia if all that was really necessary. It seemed like he really felt for her in that moment, past blow job and omelet nipple jokes notwithstanding

I liked that.  Roman was actually trying to be kind in that moment.  

I also laughed at Marcia's claim of daily intimate conversations with Logan.  It's funny when people die and there are always those who try to make themselves seem much closer to the deceased than they currently were, as though they are trying to win a competition.   

[nb360]

"A taxi ride to the subway." Damn, that was cold, Marcia.

Gerri's hair looks great. She looks younger.

I hated the gender politics of leaving Shiv out.

Colin has a kid?!

Edited April 17, 2023 by nb360

[caitmcg]

1 hour ago, Athena5217 said:

Having Shiv be pregnant seemed a little soap operaish to me.

Sarah Snook is pregnant, so they may have written it in, knowing she’d be showing by the later episodes.

[Artsda]

Shiv being pregnant I didn't expect.  I thought they'd just film around the real life pregnancy. 

20 weeks, is it for sure Tom or possibly Nate? That was the guy she was with in S2. This does seem very soap opera. 

I think it did look like an underline then diagonal up to cross out.  But it definitely started sigh an underline.  I wonder if after Ken killed the waiter he underlined him. 

I hope there's flashback and we can find out this stuff. 

Marcia sure ran back fast to be grieving widow. Why are the bodyguards taking orders from her even?  

I liked Roman trying to help Kerry.  It was very human of him and the horror of Shiv and Kendall watching   I liked the kids trying to stick together. 

Greg really showed what a shady selfish grifter he is jumping to side with Marcia attacking the girl when she's on the ground when Logan was alive he behave the opposite.  Then thinking he's the #2 to Kendall? Really. 🤣

Tom no better running around to all 3 siblings trying to kiss their rings. 

Kendall smiling at the end was great. He's due a win and want him to win. 

 

[Marley]

Not just a taxi ride to the subway for Kerri but a taxi ride to the subway to take her home to her little apartment. Lol savage. Honestly tho Kerri sucked too. She’s prob upset her money train has ended. She was riding so high a couple episodes ago and was thinking she was hot shit. This is what can happen getting involved with these kind of rich pricks. Marcia is just really good at surviving. Plus she was married to him so she’s good to go lol.

I don’t know why but I kind of like Willa now. Her thinking of remodelling cracked me up. Her mom dropping food meh lol. They are all vultures let’s not just judge her.

Honestly Logan prob changed his mind always but I do think Kendall is prob the best for the job. He knows what he’s doing with this stuff. I mean other then the drug problem but I think he has that mildly under control lol.

Tom yikes idk you are a suck up but you are prob saved by Shiv. I kind of like him tho for Shiv. I mean he’s prob the best for her with all her issues.

Hard to say underline or cross out. He could’ve been enraged and the cross out started underneath when he meant it to start higher. No one will ever know.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Marley

[nb360]

I just started re-watching the episode and noticed that Roman asked for Kerry's "private number" -- twice. I suspect that Roman realizes that Kerry, like Tom, would have been aware of how Logan wanted Roman to help him w/ Maatson.

[kittykat]

Whew, Marcia is back and has had intimate convos with Logan every morning and savagely dispatched Kerry.  Welcome back!

And Kendall finally got what he wanted and is already going behind Roman's back in regards to the dad smear campaign.  Can't say he was wrong, it's exactly what Logan would have done.

It's just getting started and I'm all in.

[nilyank]

I can't feel sorry for Kerry because she wanted to go upstairs to look for proof that Logan was going to marry or intended to marry her or at least wanted to take care of her. That is why she was upset and was begging for Roman to help her with her claims. She bet on a powerful man but he died trying to fish out iphone from airplane toiler, so she is out of luck.

I think that Tom was trying to butter up the three Roy siblings but with Shiv there is so much history between that there is so much in between them. And now a baby. During last seasons, I could have sworn there were hints that maybe Shiv was pregnant. What is exactly is the timeline since last season's finale?

Kendall was savage especially when he pointed out that Shiv's name was not on the paper. Despite Shiv trying to imply that Logan was crossing out Kendall's name, it was clearly an underline. If Logan was going to cross out the name, he would make sure to obliterate the name completely by crossing it out many times angrily.

[DawnDavenport]

1 hour ago, kittykat said:

Whew, Marcia is back and has had intimate convos with Logan every morning and savagely dispatched Kerry.  Welcome back!

Can someone remind me why we should root for Marcia? I mean Willa read her for filth in that small exchange. She took Marcia's words and stabbed her back with an extra twist. Go Willa. To me, Willa is the only honest human in this horrid bunch of sociopaths.

Marica is no better than anyone else. She was definitey lying when she said her and Roy talked everyday. She's just angling for her piece of the pie like everyone else and is just as trashy and power hungry as the rest of them, her accent just makes her seem more classy than she really is.

Edited April 17, 2023 by DawnDavenport

[realityplease]

Clever writing!  Each character's words so true to their essence. 

The sibs' comments on the newspaper obits were on fire:  You ever see him laugh like that: "Only if a hobo was on fire."  He was a complicated man:  "Threw phones at staff."  A sharp reader of the national mood:  "A racist."  Very much a man of his era:  "Again, a racist. Also relaxed about sexual assault."  A business genius:  "Never paid a penny in taxes."  "Well connected:  "A pedophile.  Who wouldn't even hug his grandchildren." 

Tom referred to the sibs as "screwups & dipshits" to Gerri, Frank & Karl - but then sucked up to each of the sibs - though he'd screwed them over by backing Logan & really couldn't expect to come back from that.  Ken simply responding that he likes Tom & good luck.  Roman more feisty to fend off Tom's suck-up words.  Karl slamming Tom's offer to put his hat in the ring as next CEO by calling Tom "a clumsy interloper that no one trusts."

Karl said he might want consideration & Gerri responded, "I think you're a corporate legend. What you did in the '90's with cable? Huge." Gerri, always saying one thing but implying so much more.  Always careful not to say too much or to do a quick retreat when needed.

Greg kicked out of the room by the sibs like an annoying gnat.  They wanted none of his fawning platitudes. And later laughed at when he tried to put too much meaning into his name on the piece of paper with a question mark.

Marcia being no less vicious to Kerry than she was to Holly Hunter's character when she asked Hunter's character if she was being tested for STDs.  And as one reviewer observed, Kerry picking up vitamins from the items dropped.  Pre-natal vitamins???  Maybe Kerry is momentarily gone -- but not to be forgotten?

Of all the sibs, Ken seems to have his head in the game.  Not turning away the Mencken (over Shiv's objection) in order to maintain a relationship with the likely Presidential winner.  Getting Stewy's support.  Talking to Sandy.  Using Hugo's insider trading to put the screws to Hugo.  Ken's most likely to emulate Logan.  (Who I think did cross out Ken's name.  An underline would serve no purpose.  But as Ken said, it doesn't say Shiv. Or Roman, for that matter. And has no legal weight.) 

Roman is somewhat focused also.  He rejected Tom's suck-up efforts (though Tom could have validated Logan's last contacts with Roman) but was very anxious to get Kerry's private number (to validate that Logan did speak with him & wanted Roman back in?) And convinced the sibs that he should be co-CEO.  So Roman also seems to be thinking about the plays to be made here. 

Only Shiv seems a bit unsteady, both mentally & on her feet - oof, that fall.  Thinking they caused Logan's death by sending him off by airplane to deal with Mattson, when really, Logan's pulmonary embolism could have happened anywhere. And with a pregnancy to worry about. But maybe she'll get her mojo back in Sweden.   

So many more opportunities for twists & turns. With Logan still controlling things & keeping them guessing - even after death.

Edited April 17, 2023 by realityplease

[thuganomics85]

Noticed Brian Cox's name is still in the credits, so I guess it is a contractual thing since we didn't get any kind of sighting: either by flashbacks or literally corpsing it, heh.

So, in the Game of Succession, Kendall and Roman are.... temporarily on the throne as acting CEOs.  Of course, they claim that they will step down once the deal with Lukas is solidified, but... well, we shall see.  Also, despite their claims that they will still keep Shiv involved behind the scenes, I don't blame her for feeling like she's being left out in the cold/out to dry right now.  Either way, the optics really didn't look great because even if they claim it's because of their "experience", I would imagine in this day and age, there would be a lot of talks over how she didn't get a spot while her brothers did.  Curious to see how all of this plays out.

Marcia is back!  I mean, yeah, she's just as awful as everyone else but her style of putdowns and arrogance is always a sight to behold.  Hiam Abbass is always a delight!

While I won't go as far as to say that I actually "root" for anyone here, I really do have a fondness for "The Old Guard."  Objectively, I really do think Gerri is probably the most competent person here and probably could run the company well.  And both Frank and Karl do have their positive traits, even if I'm not sure I ever want them in charge.  But, more importantly, they are just so damn funny.  From all of Gerri's annoyed reactions, to Karl obliterating Tom when he tried to "put his hat in the ring", all the way to Frank just flat-out laughing when Greg wondered if Logan wanted him as the CFO, they are the gifts that keep on giving! 

Tom and Greg were both competing to see who could be the biggest kiss-ass, although Tom did seem to have more of a strategy with the way he approached each Roy sibling and tried to sway them (although, maybe it's my love for Matthew Macfayden talking, but I do think Tom still cares for Shiv.  Kind of.  In his own way...)  Meanwhile, Greg is trying to suck up to whoever is right next to him at the time and isn't getting any respect from them.  And yet I kind of wonder if this could lead to him actually coming out ahead.  Maybe not as the big boss (hopefully), but he strikes me as the spineless slimeball who will manage away to keep falling upward.

Did not predict Shiv being pregnant, but I guess it makes more sense if Sarah Snook was in real life during the filming.  Hopefully they don't into soap opera-ish territory with this aspect.

Still kind of feel bad for Colin.

Roman really might be the most empathetic of the siblings, which is nuts.  But whatever one thinks of Kerry as a person, him trying to help and support her was surprisingly touching.

With so many roast masters here, it is easy to sleep on Willa but she really knows how to hit them.  I remember a time when she got Tom good seasons ago and Marcia felt it tonight!  Kind of pulling for her and Connor (and his 1%) at this point.  At least they got the apartment!

HBO is all about that Stephen Root tonight, I see!

Enjoyed the Kendall/Stewy scene.

So, Kendall's plan is to go behind Roman's back and tear Logan down to build him (and Roman) up.  I actually agree with him that this something I could see Logan doing, but I have a feeling this is going to put Kendall on a path he won't be able to come back from.  That dead-eyed smirk at the end from Jeremy Strong was perfection.

Edited April 17, 2023 by thuganomics85

[Avabelle]

I know Snook is pregnant and maybe they felt it would take people out of the story trying to hide it all the time but the pregnancy development has not landed for me at all. Shiv has always been portrayed as smart and calculated. A pregnancy was not something she wanted at this moment and her and Tom were hardly at it like rabbits so I don’t get how this woopsie could even happen, assuming it’s his. It just feels like a trope that’s been thrown out there for the sake of more drama.

Were there any hints this season she could be pregnant?

[absnow54]

5 hours ago, nilyank said:

What is exactly is the timeline since last season's finale?

Somebody noted that Marcia hadn’t seen Logan in 7 weeks, so it’s been at least 7 weeks since Caroline’s wedding.

The other clue is Shiv’s pregnancy. She just got the results from her amnio, which is done around 14 weeks, at the earliest. Plus you have to subtract the two weeks from pregnancy, where you’re not actually pregnant, so if the baby is Tom’s and they conceived during their “I don’t even love you” sex, about 3-4 months have passed since the finale. 

I didn’t get the impression she was pregnant during season 3. I don’t think she would be so adamant about embryos if she were already pregnant, unless she was still in denial. Tom was actively trying to conceive before he went to prison, so maybe. It’s also possible that the baby isn’t his, which could stretch the timeline further. 

So the answer to your question is at minimum 7 weeks have passed, but more likely 3-4 months have passed, potentially more. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by absnow54

[dmc]

Tom and Greg were so slimy this episode.

Especially Greg’s treatment of Kerry which reminded me of Tom’s treatment of Willa back in the day.

I hate the troupe when a person finds out their pregnant and keeps it a secret.  I’m willing to bear but I hate it. Last seasons are tricky especially when it comes to pacing.  I hope this isn’t rushed.

Marcia’s return from shopping in Milan forever was my favorite.

They had many intimate calls.  OKAY Marcia

Roman’s quote that Kerry was in the trunk inside a snake inside a sarcophagus was lol. When you date a senior citizen get everything in writing.  Who thought Roman was making a move?  I did.  He’s done helping old ladies cross the street after all.

Conner 63 million to live in your dad’s house 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Shiv…you are never going to run a conservative company when there are men with pee pees available.  But I feel your annoyance.

Also Tom’s blatant manipulation of his pregnant wife for company support was gross and not subtle.

 

Also so much meaning in that one little Taylor wearing jeans.  You know Logan never permitted anyone to wear jeans in front of him.  Taylor is already giving himself a casual Friday

Edited April 17, 2023 by dmc

[Pestilentia]

Quote

I also laughed at Marcia's claim of daily intimate conversations with Logan.  It's funny when people die and there are always those who try to make themselves seem much closer to the deceased than they currently were, as though they are trying to win a competition.

Regardless- she is his wife.   That's the most "intimate" relationship out there- a wife 'wins' the position of #1 Mourner by default.

Had he wanted her to not be his wife (and entitled to all that entails) he could have ended it at any time- he did not choose to do that. So legally she is still afforded the respect and consideration due a Grieving Widow.

I'll root for her. You don't live with a man like Logan Roy (and horror of horrors, sleep with him) without giving up parts of yourself even if you do get to shop in Italy the entire season. The misery she had to endure by being around him, being marginalized, disregarded, ignored- IMO she deserves every cent and piece of property she can get her hands on. She put in the time and now is due the payoff- I kinda hope she is able to screw everyone over.

She won't, but she'll be fine and god willing enjoy many years of not even having to think about what a miserable old bastard Logan was other than raising a glass to him every time she checks her bank statement.

[SnarkAttack]

7 hours ago, Artsda said:

Shiv being pregnant I didn't expect.  I thought they'd just film around the real life pregnancy. 

20 weeks, is it for sure Tom or possibly Nate? That was the guy she was with in S2. This does seem very soap opera. 

I think it did look like an underline then diagonal up to cross out.  But it definitely started sigh an underline.  I wonder if after Ken killed the waiter he underlined him. 

I hope there's flashback and we can find out this stuff. 

Marcia sure ran back fast to be grieving widow. Why are the bodyguards taking orders from her even?  

I liked Roman trying to help Kerry.  It was very human of him and the horror of Shiv and Kendall watching   I liked the kids trying to stick together. 

Greg really showed what a shady selfish grifter he is jumping to side with Marcia attacking the girl when she's on the ground when Logan was alive he behave the opposite.  Then thinking he's the #2 to Kendall? Really. 🤣

Tom no better running around to all 3 siblings trying to kiss their rings. 

Kendall smiling at the end was great. He's due a win and want him to win. 

 

I also want him to win.

[absnow54]

28 minutes ago, Pestilentia said:

Regardless- she is his wife.   That's the most "intimate" relationship out there- a wife 'wins' the position of #1 Mourner by default.

Had he wanted her to not be his wife (and entitled to all that entails) he could have ended it at any time- he did not choose to do that. So legally she is still afforded the respect and consideration due a Grieving Widow.

I'll root for her. You don't live with a man like Logan Roy (and horror of horrors, sleep with him) without giving up parts of yourself even if you do get to shop in Italy the entire season. The misery she had to endure by being around him, being marginalized, disregarded, ignored- IMO she deserves every cent and piece of property she can get her hands on. She put in the time and now is due the payoff- I kinda hope she is able to screw everyone over.

She won't, but she'll be fine and god willing enjoy many years of not even having to think about what a miserable old bastard Logan was other than raising a glass to him every time she checks her bank statement.

She showed a lot of genuine devotion toward him while he was recovering from his stroke. I think all of her insistence that she and Logan spoke intimately every night, was more of keeping with the narrative of "the firm" than to hold onto her piece of the pie. She's legally his wife, I agree with you, had Logan wanted another arrangement, he would have quietly bought her out, but he didn't. Reap the benefit of your patience, Marcia! 

[Francie]

7 hours ago, DawnDavenport said:

Marica is no better than anyone else. She was definitey lying when she said her and Roy talked everyday. She's just angling for her piece of the pie like everyone else and is just as trashy and power hungry as the rest of them, her accent just makes her seem more classy than she really is.

I'm imagining any daily conversations between the two of them going like this:

Logan: Are you going to sign the fucking divorce papers?

Marcia: I will not sign the papers.

Logan: Fuck off!

1 hour ago, dmc said:

When you date a senior citizen get everything in writing.

Don't just get it in writing. Written documents can be challenged. Gotta operate purely on a pay as you go, cash and carry basis. 

[dmc]

6 minutes ago, Francie said:

I'm imagining any daily conversations between the two of them going like this:

Logan: Are you going to sign the fucking divorce papers?

Marcia: I will not sign the papers.

Logan: Fuck off!

Don't just get it in writing. Written documents can be challenged. Gotta operate purely on a pay as you go, cash and carry basis. 

It’s true they can be challenged but most often they family will give you a settlement which is better than a taxi ride to the subway back to your little apartment 

[Jordan Baker]

This show is an embarrassment of riches when it comes to acting. Everyone was great last night, as usual. In particular, I thought Peter Friedman (Frank) did a marvelous job of trying to make Kendall believe that his father loved him. I'm not sure whether Frank actually believed it himself, but it was a great kindness to say what he did in the moment. Frank showed the same compassion in the previous episode when he talked Kendall down from his demands to speak to the pilot of Logan's plane.

I've seen Peter Friedman in many parts over the years but I only recently discovered that he played Tateh in the original cast of the musical "Ragtime." An immense talent.

[pasdetrois]

Karl nailed Tom to the wall when Karl succinctly and savagely summarized Tom's new position in the game:

“The negative case might go, ‘You’re a clumsy interloper and no one trusts you,’” Karl (David Rasche) tells Tom when he suggests he’d like to be considered. “’The only guy who was pulling for you is dead. And now the only thing you have going for you is that you’re married to the boss’s daughter, and she doesn’t even like you! And you are fair and squarely f***ed.’”.

The normally unctuous Tom was quite taken aback and I laughed hard.

Edited April 17, 2023 by pasdetrois

[SnarkAttack]

5 hours ago, Avabelle said:

I know Snook is pregnant and maybe they felt it would take people out of the story trying to hide it all the time but the pregnancy development has not landed for me at all. Shiv has always been portrayed as smart and calculated. A pregnancy was not something she wanted at this moment and her and Tom were hardly at it like rabbits so I don’t get how this woopsie could even happen, assuming it’s his. It just feels like a trope that’s been thrown out there for the sake of more drama.

Were there any hints this season she could be pregnant?

Not sure if it was this season or last, but there was a scene where Shiv quickly went to get water, like she didn't feel well,  and it occurred to me that she could be nauseous from being pregnant.

[absnow54]

Someone pointed out that Kendall Logan Roy has the initials "KLR"... Logan named him Killer. 

[Jordan Baker]

Most surprising moment of the episode--Logan did Sudoku.

[Msample]

When the “piece of paper” was first brought up, and given the amount of concern exhibited about it before we knew the contents, was I the only one who thought there was something regarding Kerry on it - marriage, a position etc ? Given the talk of flushing it down the toilet etc. 

 

And speaking of toilets, the plane toilet being clogged due to Franks wonder bread and steak frites diet was priceless.

[Diapason Untuned]

I really liked seeing Ken with Frank and Stewy this episode. Easy to forget, but Ken has been in this company for years and has built relationships here, which even resemble something genuine and heartfelt.

It was also fun seeing him put his big boy pants on. Number One Boy's a killer now! The way he just nicely eviscerated Tom with that "Good luck" and then put the screws to Hugo... I imagine Logan is enjoying the show from hell.

Tom has been such a slimeball recently (or really, always) that it was a delight to watch him get dismantled and scurry around looking for favours. "Here to serve" indeed.

This was not Shiv's day. First her ex tries to manipulate her and her brothers leave her out in the cold, and all this when she's pregnant. Just please don't name the kid Logan or Tom!

Can't forget Marcia. Came back from the shopping trip like a boss, instantly fleecing her step-kid for millions and putting Kerry out like yesterday's garbage!

All in all a spectacular performance!

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Diapason Untuned

[cardigirl]

Poor little Shiv. (Not.) I'm not sure why I can never dredge up any sympathy for her, but this episode didn't help. I get that she, as the youngest, and a girl, has had to fight for every bit of recognition she can from the family. That's why she was working for someone else when we met her. But she has no patience, blurts out the wrong thing at the wrong time, all in a bid to get someone to recognize her brilliance, which really may not exist.  

She's in a bad place (emotionally) in that her marriage, which supported her in some way, is done, by her choosing. (Tom's betrayal was a result of her treatment of him.) Now she's pregnant, but not sure what that means. Will she go forward with the pregnancy? I guess we will find out. She probably does not have a great idea of what being a mother can be, given her relationship with her own mother (another betrayer).

This episode was very interesting to watch as the siblings start to realize they may not want the deal, but want to keep Waystar for themselves (or Kendall, wanting it for himself). 

Even though Logan was not physically present, he was very much still influencing everyone's behavior. I'm really looking forward to the rest of the series. 

 

 

[dmc]

2 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Poor little Shiv. (Not.) I'm not sure why I can never dredge up any sympathy for her, but this episode didn't help. I get that she, as the youngest, and a girl, has had to fight for every bit of recognition she can from the family. That's why she was working for someone else when we met her. But she has no patience, blurts out the wrong thing at the wrong time, all in a bid to get someone to recognize her brilliance, which really may not exist.  

She's in a bad place (emotionally) in that her marriage, which supported her in some way, is done, by her choosing. (Tom's betrayal was a result of her treatment of him.) Now she's pregnant, but not sure what that means. Will she go forward with the pregnancy? I guess we will find out. She probably does not have a great idea of what being a mother can be, given her relationship with her own mother (another betrayer).

This episode was very interesting to watch as the siblings start to realize they may not want the deal, but want to keep Waystar for themselves (or Kendall, wanting it for himself). 

Even though Logan was not physically present, he was very much still influencing everyone's behavior. I'm really looking forward to the rest of the series. 

 

 

Because she’s not very nice. 

The actor is so good she makes us want to empathize with her though. 

[cardigirl]

1 minute ago, dmc said:

Because she’s not very nice. 

The actor is so good she makes us want to empathize with her though. 

I think the actress is very good at making me NOT want to empathize with her.  LOL. Sarah Snook is great. 

[chaifan]

This was a great episode.  The "interpretation" of the obits was hilarious, and actually showed a brief glimpse of the kids getting along and not sniping at each other.  Oh, that Logan.  He was a unifier, even in death.  😄  Ken's conversation with Hugo at the end was great.  I liked how Hugo was smart enough to ask for someone else to sign off on it.  He knows how these people work, and that Ken could easy fuck him over even if he does exactly what Ken wants him to do.

Here's my issue with that strategy...  1) Logan was out there in public.  I think there are too many people who could rebut the claim that he was a dottering old fool in the end.  2) Too many people knew that Logan was 99% estranged from the kids in the end, making it really hard for them to sell the story that they were actually running things behind the scenes.  Especially Ken, who turned Logan in to the Feds.  Even if Karolina, Geri, Frank and Karl are all onboard, I think for that strategy to work they would at least have to give Kerry a hefty bribe.  I think that's how Kerry survives all this, actually.  She promises to go along with Logan losing it at the end in exchange for a big payout that would give her a comfortable life.  But they'd also have to pay Marcia off, as she could easily torpedo those attacks.  And paying Marcia off is a lot more expensive than Kerry.

I really don't understand making Roman co-CEO with Ken.  If there has to be two, Shiv is the more logical choice.  First, she has some actual work experience outside the family, and was supposedly quite good at her job.  I don't think Roman has actually ever done anything.  Yeah, he had a position and title at Waystar, but did he ever actually do anything independently?  I really don't think so.  Also, the blatant sexism of it, especially when just a short time ago Logan wanted Shiv as the face of the company to fight back against the harassment allegations.  Shiv is the only one who hasn't done anything publicly that would embarrass the hell out of them or the company. 

2 hours ago, dmc said:

I hate the troupe when a person finds out their pregnant and keeps it a secret.

Shiv is still in first trimester, so I think (at least for now) it doesn't fall in the secret pregnancy trope.  It makes sense for her to keep it secret for now.  I think it's more telling that she has no one to tell.  She's not going to tell Tom (is it even his?), we've seen no best gal pals for her, family is definitely out.  It shows she's really alone right now.  She's almost in tears on the phone with her doctor.  Tears of happiness?  Or tears of, oh fuck, I'm pregnant and everything is fine, so now what do I do?  I also wonder if they wrote it in because of Snook's pregnancy.  They started filming last June, so she wouldn't have been pregnant yet, especially not during writing.  I know they film things out of order, so we'll see.  I'm not sure what the purpose of the fall was - it wasn't a big enough fall to impact a pregnancy.  Is it just showing she's off her game in one way or another?  Or just that she needs more sensible shoes?

Marcia is horrible, but I still love her.  I actually don't think she's lying about talking to Logan - intimately - twice a day.  That is something that is really easy to prove/disprove (the calls, not the topic/intimacy), and she's smart enough not to put herself in a position to be proven a liar.  In addition to the cold remarks to Kerry, I loved how she jammed everything of Kerry's into one bag, overflowing so it would likely (and did) spill.  She wasn't even going to give Kerry an extra tote bag from her own closet.  I'm surprised it wasn't all in a Hefty bag.  Also, only Marcia could successfully combine a wake/memorial (whatever we're calling that gathering) with a board meeting with a real estate deal.

Was Tom lying to Greg about how Logan died, the compression socks, etc.?  I couldn't tell if he was being sarcastic and making jokes, or if he was testing Greg with giving him false info to see how fast it spread?  We haven't heard that from anyone else, right?

I thought Connor buying the apartment for $63 million was interesting.  He recently said he'd need another $100 million just to hit the 1% mark in the polls.  Is he abandoning his campaign?  Will he flip the apartment for $100 mil?  I loved Willa's instant remodeling mode. 

 

 

 

[Carolina Girl]

11 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

and asked Marcia if all that was really necessary.

If I were Marcia I'd have answered "you bet your ass it was."  

[chaifan]

10 minutes ago, Msample said:

When the “piece of paper” was first brought up, and given the amount of concern exhibited about it before we knew the contents, was I the only one who thought there was something regarding Kerry on it - marriage, a position etc ? Given the talk of flushing it down the toilet etc. 

I thought it was some way of making Marcia CEO. 

[Carolina Girl]

8 hours ago, nilyank said:

I can't feel sorry for Kerry because she wanted to go upstairs to look for proof that Logan was going to marry or intended to marry her or at least wanted to take care of her.

My guess is that Marcia thought she was planning to PLANT it.  

[Lassus]

I cannot believe I am the only one who noticed that the only one who got a dig in at Marcia to her face was Willa.  Marcia - "Look how far you've come".  Willa "And you too!" (I don't have the quote exactly right, but Willa read her properly as a mirror in that quick moment.)

I thought Marcia's treatment of Kerry was fine; what I didn't think was fine was the portrayal of Kerry as a hysterical girl.  There's no way she got that far and then would be susceptible to that sort of stereotypical, uncontrollable fragility, so I think that was kind of lazy.

I also found kinda the inability to nuance the difference between "Logan Roy was off his game and his kids may have been running things" and "Logan Roy abused his first wife" to be a little weird.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Lassus

[TV Diva Queen]

10 hours ago, nb360 said:

I just started re-watching the episode and noticed that Roman asked for Kerry's "private number" -- twice. I suspect that Roman realizes that Kerry, like Tom, would have been aware of how Logan wanted Roman to help him w/ Maatson.

I think "private number" meant that they all have Roystar phone number and now she probably doesn't have that anymore.  

[BC4ME]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Shiv is still in first trimester,

Amniocentesis is done weeks 15-20 so she in early second trimester. According to the timeline it could easily be Tom's during the "Even though I don't really love you" sex.

When Ton said Logan died trying to fish his iPhone out of a clogged toilet I wondered if Roman's fear that his voicemail caused Logan's heart event is true. Maybe not if it was a PE. But if he was so upset and threw his phone in the toilet maybe.  

[chaifan]

19 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

Amniocentesis is done weeks 15-20 so she in early second trimester. According to the timeline it could easily be Tom's during the "Even though I don't really love you" sex.

When Ton said Logan died trying to fish his iPhone out of a clogged toilet I wondered if Roman's fear that his voicemail caused Logan's heart event is true. Maybe not if it was a PE. But if he was so upset and threw his phone in the toilet maybe.  

Still, given she just got the amnio test results back, I'd think she was in the we're/I'm not telling anyone yet window.

I just rewatched the scene, because I knew there was something more to it, and yep.  The doctor said "The journey we went on with the amniocentesis after what the blood tests showed us, everything looks healthy."  So it sounds like there was a possible problem from an earlier test.  The doctor tells her to make an appointment for her 20 week visit, so we know she's less than 20 weeks. 

 

[BlackberryJam]

Willa got in good digs and she has a lot of confidence now that she and Connor are married, but let's not forget her horrible play and the delusion about her own talent. Didn't Roman introduce Connor and Willa after Roman had purchased her services?

Marcia coming in like a boss, Chief Mourner, and selling the apartment was fabulous. The Pilot started out with Logan wanting to change his will/family trust to give Marcia two seats on the Board after his death. I thought that's what the paper would be. On the other hand, I love that it was Logan's musings and possible wishes for a funeral. And underline or cross out? Considering Logan was post-stroke when he made the changes, it's likely that his handwriting wasn't exactly steady. I sometimes underline things I hate or underline to emphasize sarcasm. 

Greg, such a grasping douche, pulling out that he'd spoken to his grandfather, and Tom, the grasping douche who taught Greg everything he knows.

This show is fab. 

[tennisgurl]

Marcia is back, and she brought the brutality. She really threw Kerry out like the trash, that was impressively savage even by this shows standards. Not even a cab to her little apartment, but a cab to the subway to get to her little apartment. Kerry might have been Logan's flavor of the week but she could never run with the big dogs, no matter how much weight she was throwing around. She's certainly not some sweet innocent little thing, but I did feel bad for her being tossed out so hard. Marcia isn't a good person by any stretch, but I like her a lot and I like seeing her back just in time to play grieving widow and get her piece of the pie.

Now that the king is dead, the vultures are truly circling. I can see why they decided to kill Logan off so early in the season even beyond the shock value, it gives them a chance to really show the feeding frenzy now that Logan is gone, the show has been great all season but this has given it such a massive shot in the arm. Its hard to really root for anyone to come out in top as they're all different forms of awful, I cant help but hope that Kendall ends up in a decent place, maybe second to Gerri who we know can handle things. Kendall does have that killer instinct that Logan always wanted to see from his kids and does have a lot of business experience, but Geri has the cool head and confidence that Kendall has never had. 

Greg and Tom desperately trying to kiss every ass they can find after backing the dead horse was as hilarious as it was slimy, especially Grey latching onto onto Marcia while she tossed Kerry out and when he tried to turn his question mark name into somehow being Kendall's number two, causing Frank to straight up laugh at him.

Frank in general had a really good showing in this episode, snarking at Greg and Tom for their painfully obvious butt kissing and then telling Kendall that Logan loved him even if Logan was a bastard. I don't know if either of them bought it, but it was what Kendall really needed to hear. 

"Look how far you've come."

"And you too." 

Ouch, Willa with the burn! She might be one of the more pleasant people in the game but she can seriously dish it out when someone pushes at her, its probably why she's still here while Kerry is already yesterdays news. She's a lot tougher than people give her credit for. 

[sistermagpie]

11 hours ago, Artsda said:

Greg really showed what a shady selfish grifter he is jumping to side with Marcia attacking the girl when she's on the ground when Logan was alive he behave the opposite.  Then thinking he's the #2 to Kendall? Really. 🤣

Tom no better running around to all 3 siblings trying to kiss their rings. 

 

Greg doesn't even have the beginnings of the imagination and proactive drive to be a grifter. He's a more passive Tom, a poor relation just sucking up to whoever he can so obviously everybody can tell even more than with Tom, who at least tends to have some strategy. It's funny, too, that while Greg does genuinely support people a lot of the time, when he does it in a fake way it's just way too obvious, like with Kerry. 

10 hours ago, DawnDavenport said:

Can someone remind me why we should root for Marcia? I mean Willa read her for filth in that small exchange. She took Marcia's words and stabbed her back with an extra twist. Go Willa. To me, Willa is the only honest human in this horrid bunch of sociopaths.

2 hours ago, Lassus said:

I cannot believe I am the only one who noticed that the only one who got a dig in at Marcia to her face was Willa.  Marcia - "Look how far you've come".  Willa "And you too!" (I don't have the quote exactly right, but Willa read her properly as a mirror in that quick moment.)

You were absolutely not the only one who noticed it--it was a high point for me too. Willa might have had delusions about her talents as a playwrite, but she completely lives in reality when it comes to her job as Connor's escort and now wife. 

2 hours ago, Lassus said:

I thought Marcia's treatment of Kerry was fine; what I didn't think was fine was the portrayal of Kerry as a hysterical girl.  There's no way she got that far and then would be susceptible to that sort of stereotypical, uncontrollable fragility, so I think that was kind of lazy.

I dont know about that. Kerry was Logan's assistant, wasn't she? Then his girlfriend. He was her whole world and she was banking on being a lot more important, but the whole time all her confidence came from Logan protecting her. Now she's realizing she didn't get anything out of it with his dying and she's back where she started in her sad little apartment. She's lost everything.

Marcia did everything but burst into a chorus of "Another Suitcase in Another Hall."

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Kendall's plan is to go behind Roman's back and tear Logan down to build him (and Roman) up.  I actually agree with him that this something I could see Logan doing, but I have a feeling this is going to put Kendall on a path he won't be able to come back from.  That dead-eyed smirk at the end from Jeremy Strong was perfection.

I don't know...the thing with Kendall is that one thing that's always defined him is his terrible ideas. Like what he was throwing around for the company they were going to start. Sometimes he gets it together to attack Logan--as Roman said, he'd tried to have him thrown in jail 12 times since Logan probably wrote that paper--but that's not the only thing that makes a good business leader. I don't know if this whole "Logan was actually a doddering fool by the end and other people were running things" will go as smoothly as he hopes--as usual. He's following his father's habit of putting himself on top and screwing everyone else, but how well has that worked for him, really? Logan had the business sense to create Waystar while he was screwing everyone. Kendall actually wants love and companionship and has no real good ideas about business. They're always just referring to other stuff that's popular or was popular.

[Lassus]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

I dont know about that. Kerry was Logan's assistant, wasn't she? Then his girlfriend. He was her whole world and she was banking on being a lot more important, but the whole time all her confidence came from Logan protecting her. Now she's realizing she didn't get anything out of it with his dying and she's back where she started in her sad little apartment. She's lost everything.

I mean, sure.  I just don't like the trope considering she wasn't portrayed as anything close to that prior.  Freaked, devastated, miserable, sure.  Broken and incomprehensible, meh.

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Lassus said:

I mean, sure.  I just don't like the trope considering she wasn't portrayed as anything close to that prior.  Freaked, devastated, miserable, sure.  Broken and incomprehensible, meh.

No, I know what you mean, absolutely. I just bought it as a deliberate choice in this case as a sort of flying too close to the sun thing. She was too cool for school as an assistant and the girlfriend. (But cracks started showing in that audition tape.)

[Lassus]

BTW, I like to criticize because it's appointment television now and think the show is brilliant. 

One of my criticisms today is Greg.  Maybe it's me, but I DON'T see any growth there.  Maybe that's the point I suppose, but he's just the same every week.  It's actually pretty tiresome and I hated him as a character even more this week.  (I don't hate the character, I hate that he is a character at all.)

Edited April 17, 2023 by Lassus