S19.E04: Week 4

[TomGirl]

1 hour ago, Tuneful said:

Rachel is all about what Rachel wants, is entitled to, is disappointed by (and she is constantly disappointed), etc. etc. I don't pick up any empathy or sensitivity from her, unlike Gabby.

Agreed.  It’s actually getting embarrassing to watch Rachel’s constant wailing, whining, complaining and demanding.  Being in a relationship with someone like that is exhausting.

[Jax7917]

2 hours ago, Adeejay said:

I guess Rachel wants the guys to jump up and down when they see her.  She is so insecure that it's starting to get tiresome.   

I agree . 
Because in real life when a tv show or a sports game is on , your boyfriend is staring at you instead of the game 🙄  . She needs to get a grip . 
 

Rachel is a nice girl but this isn’t the environment for her . Gabby is insecure too but she knows how to filter it out sometimes and just have fun . Rachel is constantly whining about everything all of the guys do . 

[tinkerbell]

"I want a man who's willing to fight for my love."

You want a man who will punch someone he's not even mad at in order to impress you? 

[call me ishmael]

23 minutes ago, coconutcookie said:

Is it just me or is this a really boring season? I fast-forward through much of the show.

It’s not just you.

[Melonie77]

1 hour ago, Amy Beth said:

Hayden deserves to go, of course, but it’s fairly hilarious that he was just as offended as Rachel because of her lack of respect for his shaggy dog story.

Hayden thinks very highly of himself. 

I believe Rachel also thinks very highly of herself despite the displays of no confidence. She expects all the men to be groveling at her feet.

I can't get past her self-absorbed narcissistic behavior at Gabby's group date fight.
Gabby's men were putting on a 'show' with their matches and speeches and it was an organized event with an audience. Rachels' men were naturally interested in watching the 'performance'. They did nothing wrong.
Why would Rachel think it ok to interact with her men and interrupt and/or distract from the show Gabby's men were putting on?

[TheMediumBopper]

Ever since Clayton's season, I've had the nagging feeling that Rachel's face reminds me of a famous older person's. Tonight I finally figured it out. Her facial structure is similar to a young Bea Arthur. Google 'young Bea Arthur' and maybe you'll see what I mean.

[Hpmec]

The editing this season is a sloppy shitshow. The dudes who didn't get a rose at the end of the episode didn't even get an awkward good-bye. Is that a first? Meatball reappeared without being officially welcomed back by Rachel. Gabby and Jason were fitted for berets that were never seen again. Who decided a church was a fitting setting for a romantic dinner date? Stupid. And who decided smelling armpits was a romantic activity? Disgusting and beyond stupid. Every time I think this show has reached a new low, they find a way to go lower. 

The show has devolved into an ensemble cast acting out assigned parts. Hayden was cast as the villain. His dog story was contrived and  ridiculous. His protest after being confronted was half hearted. He was happy to leave. Logan is cast as the guy who wants to switch women, a move that will devastate an already fragile, tearful Rachel. Her motto seems to be "Nobody likes me. Everybody hates me."  The producers are ringing as much drama as they can out of this scenario because they are stuck with two emotionally insecure leads and a bunch of guys enjoying their 15 minutes while auditioning for BIP. 

[nickp1991]

wanna go on a virgin cruise ship so the marketing was genius

[nlkm9]

11 hours ago, dizzyd said:

OTOH, surely gabby can’t be giving this guy a rose, the bobble head is getting overworked. 

Omg now i cant unsee her head shaking !! Ugh!!

[nlkm9]

10 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

The guys have NO idea they insulted Rachel. They were brought in to watch the fight. Did Rachel expect them to flirt with her during the production on Gabby's date? How would that work?

And now she's telling them off! She's coming off as emotionally disturbed and it's really uncomfortable to watch. Ugh! Time to jump ship.

In all fairness, on some if the bachelor seasons, the women were shameless in their pursuit and would do anything to grab time with the guy. I like rachel but she reminds me if deanna and aahley, too insecure to be in this position. I have to say, i dont care for gabby but she wears some absolutley incredible outfits .

10 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Okay, I was wrong about Logan, but Rachel chose Tyler because he wrote her a poem...but it turns out it was a poem he had previously written about an ex. I'm surprised she's not crying! Oh, "getting hurt to feel love" is important to her. Is this why she's so hyperfocused on being hurt by these guys at every turn? This is how she'll find her True Love? Gang, I realize I am middle aged, but this girl seems really young. Is she younger than the typical Bachelorette?

Oh! I wasn't wrong about Logan!! He just needs to tell Jesse first! Buckle up...

Who said tyler wrote that poem for an ex? Hes a cutie by the way

[SallyAlbright]

8 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

Hayden thinks very highly of himself. 

I believe Rachel also thinks very highly of herself despite the displays of no confidence. She expects all the men to be groveling at her feet.

I can't get past her self-absorbed narcissistic behavior at Gabby's group date fight.
Gabby's men were putting on a 'show' with their matches and speeches and it was an organized event with an audience. Rachels' men were naturally interested in watching the 'performance'. They did nothing wrong.
Why would Rachel think it ok to interact with her men and interrupt and/or distract from the show Gabby's men were putting on?

I think because production is probably in her ear saying "none of the guys are talking to you or even looking at you. Why do you think that is? Does that upset you? Look how much attention Gabby is getting!"

This exact scenario played out with both Clare and Michelle in recent seasons (and Gabby two episodes ago at the house) where the guys did an activity, ignored them, and then the girls had a meltdown about feeling "unseen." I'm convinced it's just a go-to plotline now. What I don't understand is why as it's not fun to watch these women have insecure breakdowns. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by SallyAlbright

[TomGirl]

7 hours ago, TheMediumBopper said:

Ever since Clayton's season, I've had the nagging feeling that Rachel's face reminds me of a famous older person's. Tonight I finally figured it out. Her facial structure is similar to a young Bea Arthur. Google 'young Bea Arthur' and maybe you'll see what I

I don’t see a young Bea Arthur, but I constantly see Sarah Jessica Parker.

[Starlight925]

45 minutes ago, SallyAlbright said:

I think because production is probably in her ear saying "none of the guys are talking to you or even looking at you. Why do you think that is? Does that upset you? Look how much attention Gabby is getting!"

Yes!  I think this is all production.

I'd also bet that they told the guys to focus on the boxing match and not on Rachel, as this was Gabby's date, so we wouldn't want to upstage Gabby and upset her, that Rachel was getting attention on her date.  Or something like that.

So, the guys focused on the boxing, which I'm sure they thought was cool, while production was telling them not to go to Rachel, and they were telling Rachel how awful it was that none of these guys even looked at her.

Anybody watch "Unreal"?  This is so much production drama.

[Dragonilk]

This season seems even more full of producer-invoked drama and silliness than before. The worst of it seemed to be the pit-smelling contest. 
Nope; I take that back. It was when Rachel expected the guys to somehow intuit her need for constant attention during the fights. Umm… they were told to watch the fights. They did.

This reminds me of the group date pajama party on Michelle’s season where the guys were set loose in the ultimate man cave and Michelle pouted that she didn’t “feel seen.”

Sweetie, the guys are there because they want to win the season ..,I mean, win your love. If they are given distractions they will go for whatever shiny thing the producers flash at them.

Oh, and Logan? This won’t end well. The heart wants what it wants but yours is gonna be headed to BIP soon enough 

[Dottie D]

After watching last night's episode, I realized I'm not invested in either Rachel or Gabby, or any of the guys for that matter.  I get much more entertainment from reading people's posts here!

[JenE4]

2 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

Who said tyler wrote that poem for an ex? Hes a cutie by the way

Tyler said it when Rachel brought up the poem and asked him to tell her more about it. He said he wrote it after a bad break up with an ex. It sounded like it may be based on what he’s learned and will look for in a relationship moving forward, but that was in relation to his ex. He didn’t come up with it on the spot, “inspired by Rachel,” as was the premise of the challenge. I guess that’s why his poem stood out if he wrote it however many months/years ago as opposed to having 10 minutes to come up with something about a woman you’ve known for a handful of days.

[Jeanne222]

I left the bachelor and bachelorette shows when they fired the host. He always kept it classy. 

They keep trying to replace those days but the things they are doing are ruining the show!

[jackjill89]

No, Logan, you do not HAVE to tell Rachel about your feelings for Gabby. One of my all-time most despised phrases is "the heart wants what the heart wants." Does he really think that Gabby will give him a chance once he dumps Rachel? 

He needs to leave. 

[Alexander Pope]

13 hours ago, DEL901 said:

If Hayden loves his dying dog so much, why is he here?  And why did he bring a photo album of pictures of his dying dog?   Of course she is uncomfortable.    Send him home.  Now.   Plus he is a jerk.  

Nothing is more romantic than telling your date that your dog's head suddenly caved in from a brain tumor!!

and nothing says asshole more than leaving the creature you claim to love more than anyone else in the world while they're dying.

[phlebas]

1 hour ago, Alexander Pope said:

Nothing is more romantic than telling your date that your dog's head suddenly caved in from a brain tumor!!

and nothing says asshole more than leaving the creature you claim to love more than anyone else in the world while they're dying.

It's insane.  I lost my own dog a few weeks ago, and you couldn't have dragged me away from her once I realized her time was near.  I do not get it.

I assume Hayden is a major pri--.... okay, got it.

[seacliffsal]

Many times I have to ask myself "self, why do you continue to watch this?" and then this episode reminded me of the reason(s).  I LOVE the travelogue aspect of this show.  They showed beautiful scenes of Paris (bringing back many memories-I once bought lunch at the cafe in the gardens they showed while Gabby and Rachel were waiting for their dates).  So, I slug through the drama and angst (while finding a lot of humor in it) waiting for scenes of the cruise ship and ports of call.

I think that by always casting recycled participants (with the recent exception of Matt [albeit while trying to cast for diversity they forgot to cast someone who would be interesting to watch IMO]), it places the whole contestant pool in a downward spiral.  Securities that are somewhat hidden from view when one is a contestant are amplified when one is the lead (or co-lead...).  As for those trying to be an influencer, er, trying to win the heart of the lead, one has to ignore the red flags of the lead and convince oneself that the lead is someone desirable beyond all others...

In having Rachel and Gabby as co-leads, we, the viewers, now have to put up with twice as much insincerity, insecurities, and ineptness as before.  It's too much to watch both of them deal with their own issues let alone the issues of the participants.  Now, as so much of this post is negative, I will add that I am enjoying the fact that Gabby and Rachel are interacting with smaller groups of men due to dividing them up (even though Logan thinks he can jump from group to group).  However, that also means the men might get to know them faster/better and just decide to disembark before the end of the cruise and take their chances on shore.

[Alexander Pope]

10 minutes ago, phlebas said:

It's insane.  I lost my own dog a few weeks ago, and you couldn't have dragged me away from her once I realized her time was near.  I do not get it.

I assume Hayden is a major pri--.... okay, got it.

I'm so sorry for your loss. We lost our dog in March and are still not over it.  Hayden is not worthy of his dog and it is ironic that he calls women bitches so cavalierly.

[alexa]

I agree about Rachel.  I was giving her the benefit of the doubt, but she has to stop harping on the guys and getting so insecure.  I miss the days of the confidence, even if it was pretend confidence, of the early bachelorettes.  They focused on having fun and how cool it was to have the opportunity to meet so many guys.  

[tinkerbell]

15 hours ago, DEL901 said:

If Hayden loves his dying dog so much, why is he here?  And why did he bring a photo album of pictures of his dying dog?   Of course she is uncomfortable.    Send him home.  Now.   Plus he is a jerk.  

Yes, he is a jerk. He brought a photo album of this dog who means everything to him, yet the dog is dying and he's half a world away. Was Rachel supposed to be impressed by that?  And when she calls him back, he assumes it's to talk MORE about the dog?

Though, I do appreciate that he named a golden retriever "Rambo."

[seacliffsal]

When Rachel went after Hayden after talking to Meatloaf, Meathead, Meat-free, Meatball I found it hilarious that she expected him to know why she was angry.  Her continuing to ask him if he knew why she was upset was just annoying.  She exemplified the concept that people expect others to just read their minds.  How would he know?  He wasn't there when Meatball told Rachel about Hayden.  As much as I don't support Hayden, I do agree with him that how would he know what her issue was at that point.  Just tell him Rachel, stop playing "read my mind."

[halkatla]

16 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Hayden's first love is his dog. 

I don´t think he has a dog, it seemed like he was trolling the show. Which, if so, was funny as hell. I missed the start of his conversation with Rachel and was thinking "oh so he has a kid at home that he misses, well then he´s probably not as big of a loser jerk as he´s seemed so far" but then Rachel says "I really understand the way you feel about missing your dog"... and everything they said afterwards was just unreal. I love my pets to the moon and back and if I was on this kind of show I would be talking about them a lot (think Bel from Bachelor NZ season 1, who was all about her cats at home), but that whole scene and his whining afterwards looked like a pretty big and obvious joke. So my money is on him not even having a dog at all. He really did take the story about the illness and the toys too far for it to be believable, imo. And looking back, the stuff he said to Gabby about her being "so goofy" and the ridiculous things he said to all the guys, only make sense in that light. (I mean it´s possible that he´s just that dumb and socially awkward but he never presented himself like that in any other way, so this all being a big joke to him seems most likely imo).

Edited August 2, 2022 by halkatla

[TomGirl]

2 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

One of my all-time most despised phrases is "the heart wants what the heart wants."

I believe that was Woody Allen’s rationale for having an affair with his stepdaughter….

[tinkerbell]

The other thing that I cannot comprehend -  Hayden's dog has a favorite stuffed duck, which went with him to all his cancer treatments.   Hayden not only left his dog behind, but TOOK HIS COMFOT TOY!!  he brought with him, to show Rachel, the dog toy that accompanied Rambo to all his treatments.  then tells a story about the piece of the toy he carries with him, shows her the piece.  Why does he also have to  have the toy?  

Maybe, as @halkatla said, he is making it all up.   but if it is true, he's really an asshole of a dog owner.  Leave your dog to die, and take his favorite toy to go on a dating show?  

[tennisgurl]

It seems like "I was just upstairs crying" is going to be the title of Rachel's autobiography. I felt sorry for her last week when she got three no's in the rose ceremony, but this week I remembered how absolutely exhausting she is. She was being absolutely ridiculous during Gabby's date, how were the guys supposed to know that they were on some kind of secret test? They were told to watch the show, so they watched the show, I would think one of them going up to talk to Rachel in the middle of Gabby's guys doing a show for her would be considered pretty rude. Wouldn't they assume that she wouldn't want them to interrupt? I don't think that Gabby OR Rachel should be on this show, neither of them seem to be emotionally ready for this. Gabby at least manages to have some fun between her crying over every salad, Rachel just seems desperate and selfish. Watching her sobbing and whining and complaining about not being the center of attention every single second, even during Gabby's date, was embarrassing. Honestly, she doesn't even seem to like that many of the guys as people, she just wants guys who will validate her and tell her how wonderful and special she is. I just hate those kinds of mind games, I feel like Rachel is the kind of person who acts annoyed, then when their partner asks what's wrong they say "its nothing" over and over until they storm off in a huff because you don't have psychic powers that allow you to immediately know what their partner is thinking. 

[phlebas]

2 hours ago, Alexander Pope said:

I'm so sorry for your loss. We lost our dog in March and are still not over it.  Hayden is not worthy of his dog and it is ironic that he calls women bitches so cavalierly.

And he stole his dog's chemo duck!

Either this dog is fictional or has already died.  Either way, Hayden is a sociopath who should not be near animals.

[TomGirl]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Honestly, she doesn't even seem to like that many of the guys as people, she just wants guys who will validate her and tell her how wonderful and special she is.

And then make out with her.

[Alexander Pope]

46 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

And then make out with her.

As they would say in the eighteenth century, she has no conversation.  Gabby is Madame de Stael next to Rachel!

[tennisgurl]

How sure are we that Rambo is actually real? 

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

How sure are we that Rambo is actually real? 

Not that sure!

It's hard to know what Hayden is thinking with that one. I would personally find it such a turn-off to hear that someone left their dying pet to try to woo me. So if he's made up that story, it's not a very good story to make up. Better would be to simply say "This is my beloved dog, who died a couple of months ago." That gets plenty of sympathy points.

And of course if it's a real story, then, like I said, it's a turn-off for me. I think it would be a turn-off for most anyone who has a beloved pet or who has lost a beloved pet.

Hayden was on completely borrowed time anyway, so I'm not sure he wasn't trying to lean into his villain narrative. He had no chance from the point Gabby told Rachel about the way he rejected Gabby - he only made it through to this episode because they needed to keep the numbers even.

Reality Steve wrote last week about how it's important to remember that the producers are screwing with the leads' heads constantly. And of course we have some evidence for that here in how the producers know Logan is saying he wants to switch to Gabby, but didn't bother to tell Rachel. (Though Logan is an obvious wrong-reasons dude anyway.)

I do feel like the producers are assuming they can get the women into a catfight over one of these men at some point (and that's why they were happy to let the Logan situation go on in this ep). I don't know why they think that, because if Rachel and Gabby could get through the Clayton rose ceremony fuckery without ever turning on each other, they can get through whatever nonsense here.

[Melonie77]

14 hours ago, SallyAlbright said:

I think because production is probably in her ear saying "none of the guys are talking to you or even looking at you. Why do you think that is? Does that upset you? Look how much attention Gabby is getting!"

This exact scenario played out with both Clare and Michelle in recent seasons (and Gabby two episodes ago at the house) where the guys did an activity, ignored them, and then the girls had a meltdown about feeling "unseen." I'm convinced it's just a go-to plotline now. What I don't understand is why as it's not fun to watch these women have insecure breakdowns. 

Good question!
I have no doubt the producers whisper toxic suggestions in the lead's ear but why they think we want to see the fallout is mystifying.

13 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

Yes!  I think this is all production.

I'd also bet that they told the guys to focus on the boxing match and not on Rachel, as this was Gabby's date, so we wouldn't want to upstage Gabby and upset her, that Rachel was getting attention on her date.  Or something like that.

So, the guys focused on the boxing, which I'm sure they thought was cool, while production was telling them not to go to Rachel, and they were telling Rachel how awful it was that none of these guys even looked at her.

Anybody watch "Unreal"?  This is so much production drama.

UnReal was a great show! Any fan of the Bachelor shows should try to at least watch the first season.

Despite any sympathy over having to put up with producer manipulations, I still found Rachel's reactions over the top. She was absolutely unable to control her emotions and IMO came off unstable and unlikable.

I don't know who the producers are trying to please with those tactics.

I also wonder who they were trying to engage by flying the cast to a beautiful and romantic city like Paris only to have the men fight each other and then have the bachelorette sniff armpits!🤮

[Melonie77]

22 hours ago, TheMediumBopper said:

Ever since Clayton's season, I've had the nagging feeling that Rachel's face reminds me of a famous older person's. Tonight I finally figured it out. Her facial structure is similar to a young Bea Arthur. Google 'young Bea Arthur' and maybe you'll see what I mean.

I did google her and I totally agree!
I never would have thought so going by what Bea looked like as an older woman in Golden Girls. But they do have a similar look around the eyes and jawline.

[LuvMyShows]

11 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Tyler said it when Rachel brought up the poem and asked him to tell her more about it. He said he wrote it after a bad break up with an ex. It sounded like it may be based on what he’s learned and will look for in a relationship moving forward, but that was in relation to his ex. He didn’t come up with it on the spot, “inspired by Rachel,” as was the premise of the challenge. I guess that’s why his poem stood out if he wrote it however many months/years ago as opposed to having 10 minutes to come up with something about a woman you’ve known for a handful of days.

I think what he said is that he had written it the night before, based on what had happened with his ex, but I got the sense it was inspired by what he'd like to have happen with Rachel.

22 hours ago, coconutcookie said:

Is it just me or is this a really boring season? I fast-forward through much of the show.

So for me it's not that it's boring, but that the men just have no charisma/personality/ chemistry.  Usually by this early in the season, I can theoretically see the Bachelorette with a lot of the men left.  But in this case, I can honestly only see either of the B'ettes with about 1 or 2 of their men, maybe 3 at the outside most. 

And it's also weird because in a normal season, when a B'ette is down to 5 or 6 guys, she's getting to know them pretty well.  But for this season, Rachel and Gabby barely know some of their 5 or 6 remaining guys, and like I said above, some of them are people we know they will not end up with (Meatball).

10 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

UnReal was a great show! Any fan of the Bachelor shows should try to at least watch the first season.

"Try to" are definitely the operative words here.  I was unable to make it past about the second or third episode, because it was so unrelentingly nasty and unpleasant.  However, I am very glad that I at least watched what I did because of the insight it gave me into what the probable producer whisperings and shenanigans are all about.  My other big takeaway from UnReal was the huge amount of production staff behind the scenes...there were tents and trailers all over the place, but of course all we ever see, are the beautiful locales.

[LuvMyShows]

Observations from the recent episode:

• Maybe they each just needed time to warm up, but I was struck by how neither Tino nor Jason seemed to be doing much talking during the Paris/rain date walking around excerpts that we saw. 
• It was quite odd that when Gabby and Jason were getting measured for their berets, that when Gabby was measured as 'small', she said, "Oh my god, I'm flattered."
• When Rachel was talking about how the three men had turned down her roses at the previous RC, she was upset about how the men could "so blatantly not care about how it would affect me".  Over-reach much, Rachel?  How on earth does she know what they were or were not thinking at that time?  None of the men gleefully danced a jig and dissed her while stomping on her rose.  Instead they seemed to rather meekly and unsurely turn down her rose as politely as possible given the situation.
• At one point, Rachel specifically said that it was in her most recent relationship, that the guy had significant worries about her profession, and her being away from home so much, and the effect on family, and the possibility of cheating, etc.  That had to have been Clayton, right, since he was her last relationship?  But I don't recall them showing us stuff like that...guess it would have ruined the narrative.
• Rachel specifically said that as B'ette, "you're supposed to be the only thing these guys care about."  OMG if that is her expectation, good luck to anyone who gets into a relationship with her.

[debbie311]

So every time either Rachel or Gabby gets into a snit over something someone said or did, they cancel the cocktail party? I thought the purpose of the cocktail party is to get to know the guys a little better, in order to make a good decision. It's sort of like, "Someone did/said something wrong, so you will ALL be punished!"

I wonder how many of the guys really don't even care about either girl, but are just enjoying being in France and on the cruise.  That's where I would be at this point.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, debbie311 said:

So every time either Rachel or Gabby gets into a snit over something someone said or did, they cancel the cocktail party? I thought the purpose of the cocktail party is to get to know the guys a little better, in order to make a good decision. It's sort of like, "Someone did/said something wrong, so you will ALL be punished!"

I wonder how many of the guys really don't even care about either girl, but are just enjoying being in France and on the cruise.  That's where I would be at this point.

See this is what I was wondering. This is my first time watching ANY of these kind of shows. Got roped into by a friend cause she needed a location to throw her premier watch party (brackets, points, prizes and all) and I just bought a house and was happy for ANY excuse to be a host. LOL. I've always thought these shows were ridiculous and cringe but I'm stuck cause I don't want to bail on the season long game my friend has created cause there are only 4 of us participating and two are already slacking each week. Anyway what I found extremely stupid and bothersome is the fact that they keep cancelling the cocktail party. I mean. Isn't that were a lot of the important interaction happens. They have such limited time already while would you keep cutting out opportunities to get to know them better? Also, I would be annoyed if I were Gabby because apparently she didn't get to have more time with her guys cause Rachel decided to cancel the party? Like really. That's just dumb as hell. Look, I get reality shows. I know drama, drama, drama but this drama is just corny and lame. Not to mention Rachel is just shooting herself in the foot by not getting chances to feel these guys out better and not make a fool of herself by asking someone to accept a rose that just might say no. 

The other thing I'm not with is the decisions these guys are making to drop bombs before the cocktail party. Like dude it just derails everything. I'm also confused about the whole confront these problematic guys before the rose ceremony and escort them out?? How about just don't give him a rose? Why waste time with the other guys to entertain an asshole one on one? Annndddddd give him extended camera time Annnnnndddddddd create an awkward confrontation for yourself? I mean, I would just pay the guy dust and after the last rose was given out I would make it a point to explain that in Hayden's particular case he didn't receive a rose because XYZ and then walk out the room without giving him a chance to even speak on it. BYE BITCH!!

[phlebas]

Canceling cocktail parties after ANY sort of drama is a long-cherished tradition on this show and on The Bachelor.

I don't think it's EVER the lead's decision.  The lead likely knows their top 4 or 5 by the second date, and the rest can go in whatever order production thinks is the most dramatic.

[Yours Truly]

13 minutes ago, phlebas said:

Canceling cocktail parties after ANY sort of drama is a long-cherished tradition on this show and on The Bachelor.

I don't think it's EVER the lead's decision.  The lead likely knows their top 4 or 5 by the second date, and the rest can go in whatever order production thinks is the most dramatic.

Ah!

[LindaT]

On 8/1/2022 at 10:07 PM, TheMediumBopper said:

Ever since Clayton's season, I've had the nagging feeling that Rachel's face reminds me of a famous older person's. Tonight I finally figured it out. Her facial structure is similar to a young Bea Arthur. Google 'young Bea Arthur' and maybe you'll see what I mean.

On 8/2/2022 at 5:42 AM, TomGirl said:

I don’t see a young Bea Arthur, but I constantly see Sarah Jessica Parker.

I see Pamela Bellwood from Dynasty. 

[LuvMyShows]

2 hours ago, LindaT said:

I see Pamela Bellwood from Dynasty. 

OMG too funny.  I don't know Pamela Bellwood, and thought this was a picture of Rachel, but was confused because it looked 90s-ish and I knew Rachel couldn't have been that old in the 90s!

[el diego]

When Gabby went to the mansion to see the guys and they started playing football I told Mrs. Diego -- if there's one thing guys like more than girls, it's tossin' the pigskin with the boys.

I forgot to mention that there is one other thing that guys like more than girls -- wrasslin' (or in this case, savatein') with the boys. These producers know what they're doing.

I agree with the posters here that the leads getting upset when the group doesn't jump at them is stupid, but I also don't understand how none of the guys understand this meta. In those scenarios, hang out with the lead, not the contestants. It's ez money.

[Sweet-tea]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:59 PM, Stats Queen said:

Gabby really needed to have counseling regarding her mother. There is some much pain she hasn’t dealt with and she is discussing these challenges with men she barely knows. All this pain is on the surface for her and a truly hope these experiences help her heal and don’t set her back.

I don’t remember his name, but the guy that told her about his insecurities seemed to bore Gabby. Her eyes got heavy and glazed over, and her head moved to a slow bobble. Either that or she was drunk. She perked up a bit when she talked about herself though. Agree about the counseling about her mother. 

I have three dogs and am definitely a dog lover, but Hayden was weirdly obsessive about his dog and clueless about what a jerk he was to Rachel. Especially in the closing remarks. The guy sounded unhinged and the opposite of self-aware. 

The Logan drama… are the producers trying to destroy both of these women? ‘Hey, let’s see who we can humiliate more! This week it’ll be Rachel. If Gabby starts feeling confident, let’s knock her down a few pegs!’

Quote

I believe that was Woody Allen’s rationale for having an affair with his stepdaughter….

Yep. Cannot stand it. And I don’t think Woody or Logan are talking about their hearts. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Sweet-tea

[SassyCat]

I don’t like it when the bachlorette gets mad at the men who don’t fawn over them. I’m pretty sure by now they would know if they feel a spark of attraction towards the lead (or leads in this case). Some peoples personalities are just not pushy! Its like “How dare you don’t love me right off the bat”. Isn’t love a two way street?  I don’t like it when they scold the men for not falling all over themselves to proclaim their love for her. 
As if it’s required that each and every one of them want to marry her right then and there. Its embarrassing they have such an over inflated sense of entitlement.... Rachel.... Hannah.

[Artsda]

Can Rachel just self evict or something. She brings everyone to a boxing match and a date that isn't hers and she'll cry about nobody looking at her.

[aqusdealer]

Hello everyone. I was pointed here by one of the cruise forums interested in the ship (Scarlet Lady) that is featured. In all fairness, I watched episodes 1, 2, 3, and 4 tonight. I'm getting a kick out of the show and plan to binge watch previous seasons, but I digress. Getting back to the lovely Rachel. I just have one initial comment:

"If I ever found myself married to that irritating, clueless, needy, self-serving, narcissistic, brat, I think I would jump off the nearest bridge!"  😄

[Hip-to-be-Square]

On 8/1/2022 at 6:36 PM, SallyAlbright said:

I'm a little ashamed to admit that I find Jesse speaking French hotter than any of the contestants. 

YES!! I rewound it 4 times on Hulu and my TV screen froze! 😅