S06.E12: Katoby

[Nancybeth]

10 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 

It would have been hilarious if, when Cute Brit told Toby he was proposing to Kate, he bought him a stiff drink and was all "good luck buddy" before recommending that he grow a mustache and become a passionate football fan. Got to remind Kate of her dad if he wants this marriage to work.

"Have you met her family yet? No, I mean the WHOLE family? Are you familiar with the Pearson monologue? Make sure you get on the group text with Miguel and Beth. Get ready for lots of cross-country trips at the drop of a hat. Good luck."

[Jax7917]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

 

She more just kinda sighed and said "okay."

Yeah, the guy is giving up his dream job in order to try to fix his marriage and the best she could say is, "Okay." 

How about a "thank you for doing that for us" or an "I really appreciate that." But nope, she looked like she was just told she had a terminal illness and had to accept it. What has Kate ever done to try to help their marriage?

[Rootbeer]

2 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

So Sophie stays buddies with Kate so much that she gets invited to Kates second big day? That's a little far fetched, no? We didn't need to see Sophie at all.  

They not only renew their friendship, but become so close that Sophie and her husband fly across the country to attend Kate's engagement party.  Because Kate is such a wonderful friend.

[CountryGirl]

I guess I am a sap deep down because I liked seeing everyone happy in the 2043 flash forward. Toby with Laura, Kate with Philip (and so much for them not lasting), and Jack and Lucy. 

[Nancybeth]

2 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

They not only renew their friendship, but become so close that Sophie and her husband fly across the country to attend Kate's engagement party.  Because Kate is such a wonderful friend.

That's one thing I've always noticed about this show...none of them seem to have real friendships. The few friends we've seen (Madison, Miguel, Sophie) end up being romantic partners for someone. Like, Randall and Beth don't have a group of college friends? Rebecca didn't have any girlfriends that came to her side after Jack died? Kate hasn't met any mom friends?? 

It's funny because on shows with friend groups I always wonder where their families are. But maybe the Pearsons are so annoying that they can't maintain friendships with healthy boundaries. 

[PepSinger]

3 hours ago, Trillian said:

11 hours ago, camom said:

I'm on the Toby train.  He made every compromise and Kate made none.  And she criticized every single thing he did with their kids.  They both had faults, of course, but Kate just wasn't ever willing to give an inch.

Any vestige of sympathy I had for Kate (and I had very little by this point) vanished when Toby offered to take the LA job that was a step down in his career and Kate said yes. Any halfway decent spouse would’ve said, “look, you don’t have to take a job that won’t make you happy (and that is mysteriously still open to you) but I don’t want to move to SF and can’t handle our being separated long-term.  Can we talk about a plan?”.  He could’ve continued looking for something better in LA or even tried to negotiate fewer days in the SF office and more remote work.  

What a horrible creature with no concern for anybody but herself.  I begrudged her every minute of happiness that followed in the episode

WORD to everything you said, Trillian! I'm rewatching the episode with my mom because she hasn't seen it yet, and when Kate said, "Okay," my mom said, "What a selfish woman." Yes, that was the moment both my mother and I's sympathies vanished for Kate. All she cares about is herself and her comfort. Fuck everyone else. I hated every moment in this episode where she was happy. Fuck her.

 Also, in their first therapy session, Toby said, "Yeah, and with Kate picking up the slack..." and both my mom and I were like, "Uh, she's the MOTHER of their children!" I don't applaud people for doing what they should be doing. She SHOULD be taking care of her children. To quote Chris Rock, "What does she want? A cookie?" I saw that as Toby being needlessly differential to Kate, and it pissed me off.

[chocolatine]

7 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I guess Kate is going to have to edit her phone contacts now.  That's all I got.

If the show wasn't ending after this season, she could leave it as it is and could be a sight gag in the future. Kind of like "Sharon London Sex" was on Catastrophe.

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Can someone tell me what Kate's new job at the school was supposed to be?  I thought I heard the retiring teacher say she would be a supervisor, but I'm not sure what that means or how Kate would be qualified.

I also heard supervisor, and the woman who was retiring led her into a cramped room full of keyboards, so I thought maybe Kate was supposed to "supervise" the instruments, i.e. keep an inventory of them and make sure they're in working order? There's no way she would be qualified to supervise other teachers since she's not even qualified to be a teacher herself.

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

I appreciated that we didn't see them immediately throwing in the towel, but that it was revealed that they tried for at least another 16 months as they referenced being in counseling for that long (IMO several months after it was obvious it was over). They did fight for their marriage, but unfortunately, the resentment that was already there grew exponentially when Toby took the LA job he originally turned down (guess it made enough money after all?) and it was clearly a letdown on many levels while Kate was thriving in her new position at the music school.

*They* didn't try, *he* tried. Kate wasn't shown to be trying at all. And as for the money, the apartment Toby moved into after the separation looked cheap and depressing, presumably because Toby couldn't afford anything better while also paying for the house where Kate got to stay with the kids (again, giving up absolutely nothing on her end). It wasn't for a few more years - presumably after Toby was no longer on the hook for spousal support - that he was able to buy the house where he arranged Jack's room so that it would feel the same as his room at Kate's house.

[himela]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Morbidly obese women have an average shortened life span of five years.  So.  Death at 75 rather than 80 would be average.  The diet industry has been trying to make us believe that if we don't lose weight we're going to drop dead next week, but it just isn't true.

Sorry for going off topic but is there some article or something I could read regarding this matter? Thank you :)

[ams1001]

23 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

So Sophie stays buddies with Kate so much that she gets invited to Kates second big day? That's a little far fetched, no? We didn't need to see Sophie at all.  

I can see them reconnecting enough that she would invite her to the wedding. No way would I be flying across the country for an engagement party, though. And she's a nurse in New York. How does she have the time/money for that? (Granted, I don't think we know what her husband does.)

Edited April 13, 2022 by ams1001

[absnow54]

10 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I can see them reconnecting enough that she would invite her to the wedding. No way would I be flying across the country for an engagement party, though. And she's a nurse in New York. How does she have the time/money for that? (Granted, I don't think we know what her husband does.)

I agree that Sophie showing upto a wedding would make 50000x more sense than her showing up to a cross country engagement party. I wonder if she's still a nurse at this point in the timeline, maybe they're keeping up with current events, and Sophie took part in the Great Resignation.

[Ohiopirate02]

12 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I can see them reconnecting enough that she would invite her to the wedding. No way would I be flying across the country for an engagement party, though. And she's a nurse in New York. How does she have the time/money for that? (Granted, I don't think we know what her husband does.)

We saw Kate text Sophie a couple of episodes ago.  Maybe Sophie flew out to LA for Kate's engagement party in an effort to reconnect.  Or, it's LA and Sophie needs a vacation.  

One good thing with the way Sophie being at the engagement party is seeing Kate not as enmeshed with Kevin as before.  Kate didn't immediately know Kevin's date and he seemed surprised to see Sophie there.  I am giving Kevin some side eye at him bringing a new woman to a family event like that.  

[Jillybean]

For all of you fretting about the lack of story around Rebecca and Miguel's relationship, I read last week in an interview with the showrunners that this will be covered in a future episode -- I want to say episode 15.

[Dowel Jones]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Speaking of Sophie - how will the writers get rid of her husband? Death by kitchen appliance? Prepare your Bingo cards, folks!

I got a dollar that says she is mangled to death by a runaway Roomba.

[Jillybean]

I don't care who Kevin winds up with as long as he's happy, and as long as it's not Cassidy.

[Evie]

I didn't hate this episode, but I wish they had foregone the adoption storyline for Kate and Toby last season since Hailey adds nothing, and shown the demise of the marriage then. They could still have ended the season with the flashforward shocker that Kate marries Phillip. This season could have shown Kate and Toby learning to coparent and Kate and Phillip connecting. 

At this point, I'd prefer Kevin to end up alone or with someone new, but I would take Cassidy. It will probably be Sophie, but if so, I don't know why they would complicate things by having her married. Even if she and her husband separate between the engagement party and wedding, it's just so messy. 

[Trillian]

49 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Why am I not surprised that Toby actually called Kate on her wedding day just to boost her ego and tell her that she was right about everything all along? I just found this episode so depressing, Toby was so miserable as the divorce loomed over them while Kate was in full "thank you, next" mode the second he left the house, dating Cute Brit right away, talking about how great she feels now that Toby's not around, being super Zen about their marriage being over and how "their story isn't over" just because their marriage is over, no wonder she was late to therapy, she was clearly checked out of this marriage way before they actually started signing papers. She was practically skipping while Toby looked like he was on the verge of a breakdown until the ending montage. I am glad that he at least had a meet cute with another woman, who will hopefully be less of a selfish ass than Kate, and that he seems to be doing a lot better by the time Kate gets married again, but its really all just in the service of Kate getting to be right again about this divorce being for the best.

It was so manipulative of the show.  Toby’s “realization” that Kate was right is supposed to make everything Kate did ok. It wasn’t selfish of Kate - it was for his own good!

And “manic pixie Pearson” is brilliant. Thanks for the giggle.

36 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

Yeah, the guy is giving up his dream job in order to try to fix his marriage and the best she could say is, "Okay." 

How about a "thank you for doing that for us" or an "I really appreciate that." But nope, she looked like she was just told she had a terminal illness and had to accept it. What has Kate ever done to try to help their marriage?

He did just tell her the equivalent of a terminal illness - he told her he was dedicated enough to the marriage and the family that he was willing to sacrifice his own happiness and career.  Can’t you just imagine her thinking “shit, now I have to find some other way to make him the bad guy”. 

[Rootbeer]

38 minutes ago, himela said:

Sorry for going off topic but is there some article or something I could read regarding this matter? Thank you :)

There are different levels of obesity and death rates are linked to the amount that an individual is overweight.

Usually, BMI is the method of determining obesity and a BMI over 30 puts one in the category of obese.  Over 40 is morbidly obese.

While it is true that mildly obese (BMI under 35) individuals do not seem to have an increased rate of mortality compared to people who are not obese;  people with a BMI over 40 have an average life expectancy of 10 years less than their normal weight peers.

As an example, for a woman who is 5'6", her BMI is going to be 40 at around 240 lbs.  I do not know what Kate weighs, but it is clearly much more than 240 lbs, probably well over 300 lbs.  Her life expectancy is definitely significantly reduced at that weight.  I would guess her BMI is around 60 at this point.

The CDC has a lot of information on this topic on their web site.

11 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

For all of you fretting about the lack of story around Rebecca and Miguel's relationship, I read last week in an interview with the showrunners that this will be covered in a future episode -- I want to say episode 15.

That may be, but we've just finished 3 episodes almost solely devoted to the breakup of the 4 year marriage of Kate and Toby with more romantic adventures of Kate to follow.  Rebecca and Miguel have been together more than a decade, have known each other for more than 40 years.  I'd much rather we had one episode of Kate and Toby and 3 of Rebecca and Miguel.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Rootbeer

[cardigirl]

3 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

The CDC has a lot of information on this topic on their web site.

LINK

[Jillybean]

14 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I believed that because of what he said, that he didn't want to be alone and start over and be away from his kids half the time. It's not that he wanted to stay with Kate so bad, he just didn't want to have to go through the whole process of dating again and doing everything on his own instead of being part of a couple. Plus he's already divorced once, he probably didn't want to "fail" again.

These are all valid reasons for him to move back to LA and go through 16 months of useless therapy, but I'm not buying him making a last-minute dramatic plea to Kate to stay together, moments before signing their divorce papers. This to me was a cheap ploy to elevate Kate in the plot. Grand gesture Toby went the way of his extra pounds and that little patch of hair on his head. Present-day Toby knew he would be better off moving on.

[Tango64]

The writers suddenly realized they had written no personality for Phillip or any reason for us or Kate to like him. So they went into overdrive and instantly turned him into a happy, smiling, charming Hugh Grant lite.

Then they had to give him a sympathetic back story, again in an instant. Quick! Get all this down on paper!

Here's me watching that scene:

Phillip: I was married. She had a crooked nose. She was blind.

Me: Okay, the blind bit is a little much, but okay.

Phillip:  We went through three rounds of IVF. She didn't want to quit trying. It was brutal. It ruined our relationship.

Me: Okay, I went through exactly the same thing, rings true... Gives your character some depth.

Phillip: So we broke up. She got in a cab and left without saying goodbye.

Me: Aww, that's sad. Well, not a bad effort at giving you a sympathetic backst...

Phillip: And then a drunk driver hit her and she died instantly.

Me: And now you went too far and fucked it up.

 

[Blakeston]

The biggest laugh of the episode - Kate telling Phillip that the problem in her first marriage was that they didn't say how they really felt.

That's completely ludicrous. Toby and especially Kate never held a damn thing in! The problem wasn't a failure to communicate. Their problem was an inability to stop taking jabs at each other, particularly on big occasions.

(And also the lack of things they had in common, and Kate's insistence on holding Toby to impossible standards, and the way that they didn't seem to enjoy each other's company very much. But who's counting?)

 

[peeayebee]

14 hours ago, greekmom said:

Saw guest star Alexandra Breckenridge's name and thought maybe Sophie was the end game??!! Then a huge disappointment.

Isn't there still the possibility that she will get divorced? Also, some people here didn't buy that she would travel across the country for an engagement party. It's possible that she and her husband moved.

Quote

So both Madison and Sophie have husbands. Damn. Looks like poor Kevin will end up alone.

After State Farm girl, condom girl, iPhone girl and all the rest, there's still, what, maxi pad girl?

 

14 hours ago, Aileen said:

No, he wasn’t sobbing. We saw him in bed alone when Randall called him to come to Rebecca’s deathbed. This was likely before he met ParfaitLady.

 

5 hours ago, LexieLily said:

I suppose that bar scene could have happened in a window of time after Adult Jack met Lucy but before Lucy became Jack's wife/Hope was born.

Can someone here please make a timeline?  I admit to having memory issues, so I'm glad to see I'm not the only one confused by what happened when. I'm sure I have more problems remembering, though. I would love to see a timeline with years from the beginning (or just when Jack and Rebecca get together) to the end (presumably Rebecca's death bed). 

When was Hope mentioned? I wish I could remember things better.

 

14 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

And bonus, we'll never have to hear the portmanteau "Katoby" again. (I hope.)

Maybe now we're stuck with Kalip.

Quote

So, looks like Kevin's going to hook up with someone at Kate's wedding. Guess it will be someone new?

Did you get this from last night's ep?

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

As far as Kate getting together with Gregory: Tim Omundson who plays him is 52 which I expect TPTB feel is too old for Kate who they seemingly want to present as highly desirable and attractive, allowing her to hook up with cute guys in her age group.  Gregory is too old and not hot enough, I suspect.

Shut your mouth!

 

Toby to Kate: You know what you said to me the day we signed the divorce papers? I want you to know that I see it now.
Me: Barf.

This opener left me feeling hopeless that we'd see Kate acknowledge any responsibility for the dissolution of their marriage. And, yup, she got off scot-free. 

It's a shame they couldn't have worked things out. But the thing is, it wasn't all Toby's fault, and I think we, as the audience, were meant to see that. I wish we had seen that Kate saw that as well.

I thought singing the Chumbawumba song at the engagement party -- with everyone joining in, no less -- was stupid and not as amusing as the writers thought it would be.

Dianne, the marriage counselor, was the worst marriage counselor ever. Like others said, how could she wait 16 months before suggesting that they have a dinner together without the kids? And the cliche of her saying, "Toby, it seems like you're having feelings about Kate being late." And how could K & T keep going to this woman for 16 months?!? ARGH!

Philip and Kate together just doesn't work for me. I don't see them connecting like Kate and Toby did at the beginning of their relationship, and many times thruout. Philip's story about his blind wife leaving him and getting killed by a drunk driver 5 minutes later was... WHAT? Are you writers on crack? I did, however, like when, after talking about accompanying her singing on the keyboard, Philip said, "I'd accompany you anywhere." I don't buy it, but I thought it was a good line.

I know economics on TV shows is a joke, but I don't know how Toby could afford such a cute house in LA while helping (a lot) pay for the first house.

Rebecca-brain again: Who are the New Big 3? Hailey, Jack, and...?

 

[cardigirl]

2 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

The writers suddenly realized they had written no personality for Phillip or any reason for us or Kate to like him. So they went into overdrive and instantly turned him into a happy, smiling, charming Hugh Grant lite.

Then they had to give him a sympathetic back story, again in an instant. Quick! Get all this down on paper!

Here's me watching that scene:

Phillip: I was married. She had a crooked nose. She was blind.

Me: Okay, the blind bit is a little much, but okay.

Phillip:  We went through three rounds of IVF. She didn't want to quit trying. It was brutal. It ruined our relationship.

Me: Okay, I went through exactly the same thing, rings true... Gives your character some depth.

Phillip: So we broke up. She got in a cab and left without saying goodbye.

Me: Aww, that's sad. Well, not a bad effort at giving you a sympathetic backst...

Phillip: And then a drunk driver hit her and she died instantly.

Me: And now you went too far and fucked it up.

 

When I watched this scene, and Phillip paused (dramatically) in his story, I thought to myself, "He's going to say she died in a plane crash on the way to her mother's."  

Well, I was close.  😂

[txhorns79]

Quote

Rebecca-brain again: Who are the New Big 3? Hailey, Jack, and...?

I believe the new Big 3 are Hailey and Kevin's twins. 

[Cheyanne11]

2 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Rebecca-brain again: Who are the New Big 3? Hailey, Jack, and...?

Not Jack.  It's Hailey and Kevin's twins, Nicky and Franny.  

[Good Queen Jane]

Do we know Sophie is married at Kate's engagement party? I admit that I didn't see her. Did someone actually say that the man with her was her husband?

[cardigirl]

Just now, Good Queen Jane said:

Do we know Sophie is married at Kate's engagement party? I admit that I didn't see her. Did someone actually say that the man with her was her husband?

Yes, Kate said she was with her husband. 

[Mrs Shibbles]

1 hour ago, HelloooKitty said:

Has Philip been played by the same actor the entire time or has it changed since his first appearance?

It’s the same actor.

5 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I believe the new Big 3 are Hailey and Kevin's twins. 

My brain had trouble with that too- I was thinking it was Kevin’s twins and… Jack?- what about Hailey?    So the twins makes sense.  Why not Big 2?

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, Mrs Shibbles said:

My brain had trouble with that too- I was thinking it was Kevin’s twins and… Jack?- what about Hailey?    So the twins makes sense.  Why not Big 2?

Hailey and the twins were born on the same day ala the Big 3.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

29 minutes ago, Evie said:

I didn't hate this episode, but I wish they had foregone the adoption storyline for Kate and Toby last season since Hailey adds nothing, and shown the demise of the marriage then.

But then there wouldn't be a new "Big Three".

14 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Rebecca-brain again: Who are the New Big 3? Hailey, Jack, and...?

Kevin's twins (Nicky and Franny) and Hailey, who share a birthday.

Edited April 13, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[LexieLily]

6 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I thought singing the Chumbawumba song at the engagement party -- with everyone joining in, no less -- was stupid and not as amusing as the writers thought it would be.

Either that song was a hit before I was born or there's a gap in my pop-culture knowledge somewhere between I had no idea what that song was. And apparently it's a karaoke staple?

The main reason that scene didn't work for me, aside from the secondhand cringe at karaoke for an engagement party, is Kate used a particular song that her now-fiance used to cheer her up on the day of her divorce from her first ex-husband but it was played as being a meet-cute for Kate/Phillip. 

[Domenicholas]

Okay. After thinking about for a while, I think I have the timeline for this episode down:

Early 2022: Toby decides to quit the job in San Francisco for the one in Los Angeles and he and Kate start couples counseling (Rebecca and Miguel's wedding anniversary is a few weeks after Thanksgiving, and assuming that Toby gave his job a two-week's notice before he quit)

Late 2022: The Little Three have their 2nd birthday, Toby snipes about Kate's job.

Early/Mid 2023: Kate is late to their session, and Toby mentions that its been 16 months since they started counseling sessions.

The rest of 2023: Toby and Kate have the big blowup dinner that officially ends their marriage. Toby moves into his own place. Kate and Toby officially divorce and she starts dating Philip soon after (maybe).

Mid 2025: Philip proposes to Kate (Jack and Hailey are much older now then their baby/toddler ages)

Late 2025: Kate and Philip have their engagement party. Madison, presumably married to Elijah now, is pregnant with their first child. Randall is running for Senate (probably federal rather than state now).

Late 2025/Early 2026: Madison has her third child, presumably a boy from the looks

Early/Mid 2026: Kate and Philip get married. In the earlier flashforward, Kevin states that he's 45 years old, putting the wedding between August 31st, 2025 and August 30th, 2026.

Late 2026: The Little Three have their 6th birthday, and Madison's third child is now an older baby/toddler.

Post 2030: Toby meets Laura, since Toby is alone by the time Rebecca is dying, and Laura appears younger than the rest of the "parents" in the latest flashforward of the episode.

2040s: Toby, Kate, Philip, Laura, and Lucy come to support Jack at his show, revealing that everyone on Kate's branch of the family made it to the end.

 

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Either that song was a hit before I was born or there's a gap in my pop-culture knowledge somewhere between I had no idea what that song was. And apparently it's a karaoke staple?

It was a nearly impossible earworm to escape in the late 90's. And now I have the song in my head again...

[CountryGirl]

18 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Maybe now we're stuck with Kalip.

I prefer Phate. 😁

[Jillybean]

2 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I prefer Phate. 😁

I'm going with KaPhillip since we already had KaToby. 

[Tango64]

9 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

The main reason that scene didn't work for me, aside from the secondhand cringe at karaoke for an engagement party, is Kate used a particular song that her now-fiance used to cheer her up on the day of her divorce from her first ex-husband but it was played as being a meet-cute for Kate/Phillip. 

A meet-cute with your boss on the day you signed divorce papers, and then on the first date he tells his tragic backstory which inexplicably prompts them to kiss. ("and then she died." "Kiss me, you fool! Give me some of that sad widower hotness right now!")

Divorce to dating your boss within hours, and then married soon. No single time, no finding peace on your own, no dating others to see what might work best for you and your young children. 

Even that lousy therapist would be jumping up and down waving big red flags like a Navy signalman trying to wave off ships on a course for disaster.

[LexieLily]

1 minute ago, Tango64 said:

A meet-cute with your boss on the day you signed divorce papers, and then on the first date he tells his tragic backstory which inexplicably prompts them to kiss. ("and then she died." "Kiss me, you fool! Give me some of that sad widower hotness right now!")

Divorce to dating your boss within hours, and then married soon. No single time, no finding peace on your own, no dating others to see what might work best for you and your young children. 

Even that lousy therapist would be jumping up and down waving big red flags like a Navy signalman trying to wave off ships on a course for disaster.

I said in a response to someone else that because there were no scenes of Kate and Phillip as friends of any sort during Kate and Toby's marriage and the downfall, until Phillip inexplicably offered to take her out for food/karaoke on the day of her divorce filing, it showed like we could easily make the inference that relationships overlapped and/or there was emotional cheating at the least. And yes! There was no mention, ever, even on their first date/'What are you doing with me?" of Phillip being her boss. 

[kitkat343]

On their first date Phillip says, "you're no fun.  Actually, that's not true, you're extremely fun."    Philip must have had a stroke or a magical invisible lobotomy in between his first and second sentences. His initial assessment was correct.  Kate is no fun.  She also takes absolutely no responsibility for anything that is her fault, and the fact that the writers magically turned Philip into a puppy dog chasing after her is some of the worst writing I think I've ever seen on network television.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Jax7917 said:

Yeah, the guy is giving up his dream job in order to try to fix his marriage and the best she could say is, "Okay." 

How about a "thank you for doing that for us" or an "I really appreciate that." But nope, she looked like she was just told she had a terminal illness and had to accept it. What has Kate ever done to try to help their marriage?

Still haven't watched, and I'm more and more convinced I don't want to. Knowing Toby calls her on her re-wedding day like that, just...ugh. But there is so much smoke being blown up Fogelman's skirt on Twitter about it all, it's actually tainting my opinion of the show. I guess both his wife (in person) and his sister (in her tv equivalent) are what really matters here. *barf*

[CountryGirl]

Don't ask me why I decided to finally Google what Dan Fogelman looks like but let's just say Elijah and Madison make so much more sense now.

 

[BC4ME]

1 hour ago, Evie said:

I didn't hate this episode, but I wish they had foregone the adoption storyline for Kate and Toby last season since Hailey adds nothing,

The only thing I can see that it adds is the New Big Three is still comprised of a set of twins and an adopted kid just like the original Big Three. They didn't make a big deal out of it being that way though. Yet. 

[CdrJanny]

I never thought of Sophie as much of a friend to Kate.  Remember, she was the leader of the mean girls pack at the pool that pranked Kate (probably because Kate was fat).  In their younger years it seemed like Sophie was "nice" to Kate as a means to get closer to Kevin.

1 hour ago, Jillybean said:

For all of you fretting about the lack of story around Rebecca and Miguel's relationship, I read last week in an interview with the showrunners that this will be covered in a future episode -- I want to say episode 15.

I'm thinking that's when we're going to see Miguel die.

Edited April 13, 2022 by CdrJanny
Missing a verb

[LexieLily]

I think what works against Phillip and the insta-rushed Kate/Phillip relationship is that we know next to nothing about Phillip himself much less Phillip and Kate together, so we have to take all of his comments and actions at face value, because we have nothing to base it against. Which is why none of it seems to be cohesive or make sense. Like him referencing her 'germy, loud and unrefined children' when he proposed. We assume he spent a lot of time with Jack and Hailey during his courtship period with Kate and presumably they bonded, but we saw none of that, so the line stuck out to me as wildly inappropriate, to paraphrase how Kevin talked about his relationship with Madison and Elijah last week.

[Cheyanne11]

8 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

him referencing her 'germy, loud and unrefined children' when he proposed. We assume he spent a lot of time with Jack and Hailey during his courtship period with Kate and presumably they bonded, but we saw none of that

Or the fact they'd been together for years at the point he and Toby met at the bar and yet Philip didn't know that football was a "Pearson family tradition."  

Chrissy Metz has a comment in THR today that Toby knew "no one can compete with Jack Pearson" and he just accepted that and isn't allowed to throw that in her face.  So, yeah.

[watch2much]

Toby should have been hop skip jumping on divorce day.  Kate is one of the most unappealing characters to ever grace TV. as others have pointed out, she made Toby sacrifice everything and then she couldn't be bothered to show up on time for counseling.  she had already checked out.  Remember, Kevin promised her she'd be "ok" if she got divorced.  while it might have meant emotionally, it could also have been meant financially since he was always up for giving her money.  Many people who divorce have to seriously consider finances in the decision and if she had more of a concern about finances, maybe she'd have actually tried to save the marriage.  loved that Toby met someone with a sense of humor like his.

[Guest]

Please keep the focus of your posts on the show and not on obesity and related statistics.  As a reminder, the Small Talk thread is available for all non-show talk.

Thank you.

[Nancybeth]

40 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

The writers suddenly realized they had written no personality for Phillip or any reason for us or Kate to like him. So they went into overdrive and instantly turned him into a happy, smiling, charming Hugh Grant lite.

Then they had to give him a sympathetic back story, again in an instant. Quick! Get all this down on paper!

Here's me watching that scene:

Phillip: I was married. She had a crooked nose. She was blind.

Me: Okay, the blind bit is a little much, but okay.

Phillip:  We went through three rounds of IVF. She didn't want to quit trying. It was brutal. It ruined our relationship.

Me: Okay, I went through exactly the same thing, rings true... Gives your character some depth.

Phillip: So we broke up. She got in a cab and left without saying goodbye.

Me: Aww, that's sad. Well, not a bad effort at giving you a sympathetic backst...

Phillip: And then a drunk driver hit her and she died instantly.

Me: And now you went too far and fucked it up.

 

THIS. They could have stopped at her leaving him. People can have personalities formed by all sorts of experiences other than tragic loss. It's kind of lazy writing.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

I agree that Sophie showing upto a wedding would make 50000x more sense than her showing up to a cross country engagement party. I wonder if she's still a nurse at this point in the timeline, maybe they're keeping up with current events, and Sophie took part in the Great Resignation.

I originally said it was still covid (even if they stopped acknowledging it in the show, they never explicitly declared it was a post-covid world like Grey's Anatomy did), but then I remembered that the party is a few years in the future so it may well be post-covid then (🤞🏻), so I edited that part out.

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Maybe now we're stuck with Kalip.

I, too, prefer Phate. If it goes to hell, well, it was fated and there was nothing they could do about it.

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Quote

 So, looks like Kevin's going to hook up with someone at Kate's wedding. Guess it will be someone new?

Did you get this from last night's ep?

It was in the preview; someone (Beth and Madison? I don't remember) goes into his hotel room and notices a woman's clothes (a bra, I think) draped over the chair.

29 minutes ago, CdrJanny said:

I never thought of Sophie as much of a friend to Kate.  Remember, she was the leader of the mean girls pack at the pool that pranked Kate (probably because Kate was fat).  In their younger years it seemed like Sophie was "nice" to Kate as a means to get closer to Kevin.

Yeah, their child/teen scenes never seemed like they were close friends. 

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Philip's story about his blind wife leaving him and getting killed by a drunk driver 5 minutes later was... WHAT?

I really feel like they could have left Philip's wife dying out. That was just too much; them breaking up over infertility and having differing opinions on whether to continue IVF was more than enough. (Her being blind was really neither here nor there; aside from broadcasting that he's not looking for the perfect physical specimen in a partner, as Kate seemed to assume from what she knew of his previous girlfriends, it maybe gives us an insight into how he got into his line of work (unless he was already working with blind students and met her through that).)

[The story of how his wife died reminded me of an episode of The Memory Palace podcast, about a program that attempted to develop spy cats ("in a time before PETA") surgically fitted with wires and listening devices and trained to hang around wherever they were trying to gather info, and after he goes through this whole story of these cats and all the money and time spent, up to where they let the cat out of the van for his first mission, it ends with "and got hit by a cab and died." The way he says it, you can't help but laugh.]

Edited April 13, 2022 by ams1001

[CountryGirl]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

*They* didn't try, *he* tried. Kate wasn't shown to be trying at all. And as for the money, the apartment Toby moved into after the separation looked cheap and depressing, presumably because Toby couldn't afford anything better while also paying for the house where Kate got to stay with the kids (again, giving up absolutely nothing on her end). It wasn't for a few more years - presumably after Toby was no longer on the hook for spousal support - that he was able to buy the house where he arranged Jack's room so that it would feel the same as his room at Kate's house.

I wouldn't call 16 months in therapy as Kate not trying. I have already stated that Kate was wrong to start showing up late to appointments - rude to Toby and the therapist (even if the therapist was terrible) and she was nitpicky with the bedtime stuff. But that wasn't how it played out from the very beginning (like the early therapy session where they both went out of their way to sugarcoat issues) In any event, 16 months is a very long time to try to save a marriage. Toby could arguably be said to have done more (although his comments about her job at the birthday party, for example, weren't trying) but I cannot agree that Kate did absolutely nothing. 

I don't think Toby's apartment looked all that terrible. With the real estate and rental markets super-hot right now (as reflected in The Hill episode), it may have been what he was able to get on short notice. It's not as if they went into those details so I'm not going to assume Toby couldn't afford this or that. I was happy to see him moving into a house again and setting up the kids' rooms. 

[Hudson0325]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

less charming Eeyore

That’s probably the most spot on description of Kate I’ve seen!