S06.E12: Katoby

[marceline]

I'll be honest, I'm okay with this show ending. 

This episode was exhausting. 

I don't need anymore Kate although I know it's inevitable but this attempt to turn Kate/Phillip into an endgame, rootable couple doesn't work. Maybe if this had played out slower it might land but I was just annoyed at being force-fed this narrative. I don't care about Kate and Phillip. I just don't. 

Also, are engagement parties a real thing?

[PepSinger]

Yes, engagement parties are definitely a real thing. Not everyone has one, though.

[ams1001]

7 minutes ago, marceline said:

I'll be honest, I'm okay with this show ending. 

Me, too. I still like it more than not, but if it goes on too much longer I can see it getting into hate-watch territory, and I don't want that.

[PRgal]

16 minutes ago, marceline said:

I'll be honest, I'm okay with this show ending. 

This episode was exhausting. 

I don't need anymore Kate although I know it's inevitable but this attempt to turn Kate/Phillip into an endgame, rootable couple doesn't work. Maybe if this had played out slower it might land but I was just annoyed at being force-fed this narrative. I don't care about Kate and Phillip. I just don't. 

Also, are engagement parties a real thing?

My husband's friends threw us one when we got engaged.  But that was almost 13 years ago.  

[chabelisaywow]

8 hours ago, gameshowjunkie said:

Maybe she dies later.

Maybe Kate eats her. Toby quitting his job, et al. just wasn't enough.

[Crs97]

When Kate told Toby he looked miserable with the children, I wondered if she ever looked in a mirror because she always seems miserable.  I feel like I am being gaslit:  she clearly had an emotional affair and yes she was criticizing his parenting.  She is absolutely awful and they thought people would take her side and root for Philip and her as a cute couple?!?  
 

I now assume Kevin sleeps with Sophie and the writers think we will be okay with that, too.  I hope Toby looks miserable in that flash forward because he just hates being away from his new wife for more than a day and she is the one driving the kids to Rebecca’s bedside.

Kate can take a long walk off a short pier.

[Blakeston]

If I were Kate, I would be terrified by the prospect of Phillip being a potential child predator. 

It's just so implausible that she would be the one person who could somehow cheer his hardened heart (especially after he was consistently mean to her), and that he'd be attracted to her even though she's so drastically different from his physical type.

Him using her to get close to her two young children for nefarious purposes would have to seem like a real possibility. It's frighteningly common in real life.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Blakeston

[Aloeonatable]

3 hours ago, Nancybeth said:

That's one thing I've always noticed about this show...none of them seem to have real friendships. The few friends we've seen (Madison, Miguel, Sophie) end up being romantic partners for someone. Like, Randall and Beth don't have a group of college friends? Rebecca didn't have any girlfriends that came to her side after Jack died? Kate hasn't met any mom friends?? 

It's funny because on shows with friend groups I always wonder where their families are. But maybe the Pearsons are so annoying that they can't maintain friendships with healthy boundaries. 

Logistically, having friends requires hiring other actors and creating stories about or including those characters. This show is about a family and their relationships with each other. I have no interest in seeing other characters interact with the main characters in this show. We've had references all throughout the show of other people in the Pearson's lives, why do they have to be introduced? 

 

[CdrJanny]

2 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Either that song was a hit before I was born or there's a gap in my pop-culture knowledge somewhere between I had no idea what that song was. And apparently it's a karaoke staple?

The main reason that scene didn't work for me, aside from the secondhand cringe at karaoke for an engagement party, is Kate used a particular song that her now-fiance used to cheer her up on the day of her divorce from her first ex-husband but it was played as being a meet-cute for Kate/Phillip. 

Well, I never heard of it but I admit I am stuck in the 70s.

[chocolatine]

I will say one thing in defense of "Phate" (my spellcheck wants to change it to "Hate" and so do I), I'm pretty sure Philip was no longer Kate's boss after she got the full-time job as the "supervisor." He was initially introduced as a teacher, and was Kate's boss because she was his classroom assistant, but after she took the full-time job, he would have just been her coworker. It is a little murky though because she called him in The Hill episode to ask to be considered for the full-time job. As a teacher, he wouldn't have been in charge of filling that position.

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

I, too, prefer Phate

I would too, except that they suck and I resent them having anything nice.

I was never a Toby fan.  In fact, I found him extremely off-putting in the first season to the point of occasionally repellant with his over the top pursuit of Kate who, as far as I could tell, was not a terrible person but also not emotionally open to a relationship.

Note: I despise stories that reward persistence in a man after a woman declines repeatedly. And I still shudder when I think of him pausing THE SUPER BOWL for an off topic discussion after badgering Kate into sharing what she'd already told him was a special day to her.

As time went on, I got to the point wherein I liked him.  I never really warmed to Kate, but I liked their relationship once it settled into being one.  Except, as time continued on, I noticed a serious power imbalance that never righted itself. 

Toby did all the work to initiate the relationship.  And he did most of the heavy lifting within the relaitonship.  Not all. And he was (understandably but not acceptably) a total asshat for a while unemployed.

Overall, however, he seemed to do the work. He joined the Pearsons and seemed to like them and appreciate the family.  But they are a lot and everything is THERE WAY ALL THE TIME. And, whereas Randall and Beth seemed to have a solid foundation and reasonable balance* as between themselves in most non-PEARSON FAMILY areas, I never got that from Kate and Toby. Randall and Beth present as a team to me. Kate and Toby always felt like Toby making all the major adjustments and being more of a plus one even occasionally within their marriage.

So I was not at all surprised Kate accepted Toby's sacrifice of his dream job that he loved as if it was the only reasonable solution while she changed [checks notes] absolutely nothing and got the job advancement she's unqualified for wanted.

And I agree that Kate seemed completely checked out by at least the Little 3's birthday party which would be at most a month or two into "their" efforts. And being late to multiple couples appointments is utterly unacceptable.

Then after all that, Toby is the one that wants to reconcile right before it was final and still hadn't made piece when it was. My Dude. No.

The timeline for Kate and Phillip, I'm going with Klip as that is what their relationship was made of, confuses me.  But I don't think they started dating or were officially romantic with the post-signing Karaoke. I think it was the first time they were truly acting as outside of work friends and he was there acting as her friend.  It would have been nice to see instances of that building. Although, if they were already dancing around interest before the signing, I wouldn't consider it cheating.  The divorce would have been in progress for months.

 

*Acknowledging here that Randall himself can also be A LOT.

Edited April 13, 2022 by RachelKM
Typos ... again

[One Imaginary Girl]

7 hours ago, cardigirl said:

And I did rather enjoy him teaching Phillip about American football. 

Though American football is not that close to soccer, as Toby said.  That bugged me, but I need to remind myself that that was just a throwaway line to end the scene.

Anyhow, I think the whole shoehorning of Kate and Philip into marriage isn't really because she is a Pearson and therefore irresistible but because TV shows in general don't know what plotlines to give women characters over the long term other than to marry them off and give them children.  

Edited April 13, 2022 by One Imaginary Girl

[Josiemae]

3 hours ago, Nancybeth said:

"Have you met her family yet? No, I mean the WHOLE family? Are you familiar with the Pearson monologue? Make sure you get on the group text with Miguel and Beth. Get ready for lots of cross-country trips at the drop of a hat. Good luck."

"And just so you know ... there's a Pilgrim hat."

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, Domenicholas said:

Okay. After thinking about for a while, I think I have the timeline for this episode down:

Early 2022: Toby decides to quit the job in San Francisco for the one in Los Angeles and he and Kate start couples counseling (Rebecca and Miguel's wedding anniversary is a few weeks after Thanksgiving, and assuming that Toby gave his job a two-week's notice before he quit)

Late 2022: The Little Three have their 2nd birthday, Toby snipes about Kate's job.

Early/Mid 2023: Kate is late to their session, and Toby mentions that its been 16 months since they started counseling sessions.

The rest of 2023: Toby and Kate have the big blowup dinner that officially ends their marriage. Toby moves into his own place. Kate and Toby officially divorce and she starts dating Philip soon after (maybe).

Mid 2025: Philip proposes to Kate (Jack and Hailey are much older now then their baby/toddler ages)

Late 2025: Kate and Philip have their engagement party. Madison, presumably married to Elijah now, is pregnant with their first child. Randall is running for Senate (probably federal rather than state now).

Late 2025/Early 2026: Madison has her third child, presumably a boy from the looks

Early/Mid 2026: Kate and Philip get married. In the earlier flashforward, Kevin states that he's 45 years old, putting the wedding between August 31st, 2025 and August 30th, 2026.

Late 2026: The Little Three have their 6th birthday, and Madison's third child is now an older baby/toddler.

Post 2030: Toby meets Laura, since Toby is alone by the time Rebecca is dying, and Laura appears younger than the rest of the "parents" in the latest flashforward of the episode.

2040s: Toby, Kate, Philip, Laura, and Lucy come to support Jack at his show, revealing that everyone on Kate's branch of the family made it to the end.

 

Thanks for putting in the work on this timeline. Where does Rebecca's death fall? And why do people keeping saying that Toby is alone when she's dying? Is it the lack of a ring?

 

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Chrissy Metz has a comment in THR today that Toby knew "no one can compete with Jack Pearson" and he just accepted that and isn't allowed to throw that in her face.  So, yeah.

What? I don't understand. Is she saying that everyone (characters in the show?) know that Jack is the be-all-and-end-all, so you don't talk about it? Like it's sacreligious to do so? I don't think I quite get it.

[CountryGirl]

2 hours ago, PepSinger said:

WORD to everything you said, Trillian! I'm rewatching the episode with my mom because she hasn't seen it yet, and when Kate said, "Okay," my mom said, "What a selfish woman." Yes, that was the moment both my mother and I's sympathies vanished for Kate. All she cares about is herself and her comfort. Fuck everyone else. I hated every moment in this episode where she was happy. Fuck her.

 Also, in their first therapy session, Toby said, "Yeah, and with Kate picking up the slack..." and both my mom and I were like, "Uh, she's the MOTHER of their children!" I don't applaud people for doing what they should be doing. She SHOULD be taking care of her children. To quote Chris Rock, "What does she want? A cookie?" I saw that as Toby being needlessly differential to Kate, and it pissed me off.

Are we talking about the scene where Toby reveals he's going to take the LA job after all?

She didn't just say "okay." She echoed his words of "whatever it takes" and reached across the table to hold his hand (the memory of which I think was in her mind when she did the same to Philip on their first date and understandably spooked her). I saw in her face that she was processing the news with the expected mixed emotions, considering all that went down with the LA job offer news from two episodes ago. I mean anybody would have mixed emotions. I had mixed emotions watching it "From oh, that's so great, they'll be back under the same roof!" to "Ugh, what if this job sucks for Toby after he loved the SF one so much?" to "Look at how Toby is trying!" to "What if it's not enough because much of what is wrong with the marriage has nothing to do with geography?"

As for the first therapy session, having done marriage counseling, along with individual counseling, MH and I looked at each other and laughed at Kate and Toby's comments. It sounded oh-so-familiar to our first session, although our counselor saw right through our little act of "everything's so fine and wonderful and perfect" and basically told us, though nicer put, "to cut the crap."

[RachelKM]

3 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

Though American football is not that close to soccer, as Toby said.  That bugged me, but I need to remind myself that that was just a throwaway line to end the scene.

This bugged me too.  Also, I don't know a Brit who doesn't know enough about American football to not at least understand the ways it is and is not like soccer/football.  I wouldn't expect them all to know the points system or that you can't throw a forward pass when you're beyond the line of scrimmage ... or the term "line of scrimmage."  But that the ball is thrown, carried, and occasionally kicked in the general direction of a particular end is pretty well understood. 

Actually, I was confused by the whole scene.  I got the impression that this conversation was happening at the point of Phillip moving in.  I would expect by that time, he would have experienced at least one football season with Kate. This feels like something Phillip should have discovered for himself by then.

Edited April 13, 2022 by RachelKM
Unclear sentence

[CountryGirl]

27 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

The timeline for Kate and Phillip, I'm going with Klip as that is what their relationship was made of, confuses me.  But I don't think they started dating or were officially romantic with the post-signing Karaoke. I think it was the first time they were truly acting as friends and he was there acting as her friend.  It would have been nice to see instances of that building. Although, if they were already dancing around interest before the signing, I wouldn't consider it cheating.  The divorce would have been in progress for months.

I still like Phate better, but Klip is cute and yes, you have more than a point with the "clips" of their relationship.

I also agree that there was no relationship (and do not agree whatsoever to there being an affair - emotional or otherwise), until after the divorce papers were signed. I think they were just friends as of the signing and perhaps something sparked that day (I think they alluded to that at the engagement party). I agree I would have liked to have seen one scene between karaoke and their first date. 

[CountryGirl]

2 hours ago, LexieLily said:

I think what works against Phillip and the insta-rushed Kate/Phillip relationship is that we know next to nothing about Phillip himself much less Phillip and Kate together, so we have to take all of his comments and actions at face value, because we have nothing to base it against. Which is why none of it seems to be cohesive or make sense. Like him referencing her 'germy, loud and unrefined children' when he proposed. We assume he spent a lot of time with Jack and Hailey during his courtship period with Kate and presumably they bonded, but we saw none of that, so the line stuck out to me as wildly inappropriate, to paraphrase how Kevin talked about his relationship with Madison and Elijah last week.

I actually thought that line was cute and so Philip. Plus, kids tend to be "germy, loud, and unrefined." LOL. They're kids. Kate clearly didn't seem to mind and understood it was a joke. 

Speaking of, I forgot to mention I loved the scene of Toby and the kids playing with slime or whatever it was. I love it when parents let their kids get messy. My mom probably had glitter in the carpet for years at the house I grew up in but never seemed to mind.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I actually thought that line was cute and so Philip. Plus, kids tend to be "germy, loud, and unrefined." LOL. They're kids. Kate clearly didn't seem to mind and understood it was a joke. 

 

I also thought it was cute.  And, the kids both love Philip.  I did not shed a tear during this episode (sorry TIU writer, no bah towel needed) but my heart did melt with Jack and Philip talking about the proposal when Kate was out of the room.  And then those signs. 

[Cheyanne11]

22 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

What? I don't understand. Is she saying that everyone (characters in the show?) know that Jack is the be-all-and-end-all, so you don't talk about it? Like it's sacreligious to do so? I don't think I quite get it.

.Here's her quote:

"That dinner scene where they’re both trying to rekindle the romance, and understand where each other’s coming from — it’s those little nicks that you cut into your significant other, and then eventually, just start to bleed out,” Metz tells Variety. “There was a whole monologue that she was just like, ‘I was this person before. You could have blamed it on my dad and my relationship to him, but you can’t do that anymore, and I won’t allow it.’ She went off on him and I was like, ‘Damn, I wish they would have kept that.’ But it wasn’t necessary because he said what he needed to say, but it’s hard because you’re unraveling and you can understand both sides.”

Metz went on to explain that “nobody’s ever going to measure up to Jack,” which has always been known."

[Rootbeer]

3 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

.Here's her quote:

"That dinner scene where they’re both trying to rekindle the romance, and understand where each other’s coming from — it’s those little nicks that you cut into your significant other, and then eventually, just start to bleed out,” Metz tells Variety. “There was a whole monologue that she was just like, ‘I was this person before. You could have blamed it on my dad and my relationship to him, but you can’t do that anymore, and I won’t allow it.’ She went off on him and I was like, ‘Damn, I wish they would have kept that.’ But it wasn’t necessary because he said what he needed to say, but it’s hard because you’re unraveling and you can understand both sides.”

Metz went on to explain that “nobody’s ever going to measure up to Jack,” which has always been known."

I presume she means that Kate has always felt that no one could ever measure up to her father.  Or maybe the Big 3 thought that.  Had Kate actually had a Pearson-style monologue where she actually 'went off on him' and told him she 'would't allow' Toby to express the notion that Kate's relationship with her father was a factor in the failure of their marriage; I, for one, would've wanted to 'go off' on Kate.  It just would've been more of what we'd already gotten; Kate's absolute refusal to take any responsibility for the failure of her marriage.  I understand that, after 6 years, Chrissy feels bonded to Kate, but I think she's absolutely wrong here.

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Pallas]

52 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

And why do people keeping saying that Toby is alone when she's dying? Is it the lack of a ring?

In the season 3 finale flashforward to 2032, Toby was alone, lying dressed on a (hotel?) bed, on the evening that Randall called him from Grandmother's House. He wore no ring and only his half of the bed was rumpled. Randall made no mention of anyone but Toby coming, and Toby spoke for himself. That conversation is here. 

[statsgirl]

I like happy endings, even for fictional characters, but I'd much rather have seen Kate work out her issues and deal with what ended her marriage to Toby than a magically happy second marriage.

I don't know what Kate was like in the other counselling sessions but the one we saw where she was 20 minutes late, she was was deliberately tanking it. Worse, she was expecting the therapist to support her mocking Toby.

5 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I know a couple that couldn’t conceive, adopted, and then basically immediately conceived - their kids are seven months apart (which was hell on them when the kids were little).

This wasn't uncommon in the days before IVF. Infertile couples adopted and once the stress to conceive, was gone, they suddenly found themselves pregnant.

4 hours ago, Tango64 said:

Me: And now you went too far and fucked it up.

That could be a tagline for the show

Someone once told me that if you broke up once, it will most likely happen again if you get back together. So while Kevin getting back together with Sophie would be romantic, her marriage feels like she's moved on. 

I know that Cassidy is not a popular partner for Kevin but if she's gone through the counselling that Nicky set her up with, she may just be able to cut through his codependent crap with Kate. She's been good at truthtelling to Kevin before.

[ByaNose]

While the show went a little OTT trashing Toby this season I think it was best he & Kate divorced. This storyline has worn me out because it’s been covered in the 3 episodes before and two of hem weren’t even Kate’s stand-alone episode. I thought the part of Toby graveling to Kate for a second chance was a little demeaning but Kate stood her ground. I’m still a little fuzzy on the future with them. I’m not sure what more they could do with Toby (or, them) in final 6 episodes. I’m good with it ending but I will miss it. 

Also, I still want to adopt young Jack. He is so cute. 

[Blakeston]

19 minutes ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

Anyhow, I think the whole shoehorning of Kate and Philip into marriage isn't really because she is a Pearson and therefore irresistible but because TV shows in general don't know what plotlines to give women characters over the long term other than to marry them off and give them children.  

I think the writers are trying to defy stereotypes by showing that someone Kate's size can find love with a conventionally handsome man, and live a reasonably long life. 

I just wish they'd chosen a more plausible way to do it - rather than expecting us to believe that she managed to flip Phillip's whole personality around, because she's just that delightful.

16 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

What? I don't understand. Is she saying that everyone (characters in the show?) know that Jack is the be-all-and-end-all, so you don't talk about it? Like it's sacreligious to do so? I don't think I quite get it.

I think Chrissy is saying that Toby knew all along that Kate idolizes Jack, and claimed to accept her as she was, so he shouldn't use it against her now.

I don't agree with that at all, though. Toby knew that Kate idolized Jack, but he didn't know that she was going to trash his parenting constantly.

[ProudMary]

3 hours ago, absnow54 said:

It was a nearly impossible earworm to escape in the late 90's. And now I have the song in my head again...

Well, at least your earworm is no longer "Saturday in the Park!" 

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Me, too. I still like it more than not, but if it goes on too much longer I can see it getting into hate-watch territory, and I don't want that.

I've been in hate-watch territory for over two seasons now. The writers have me in captivity only because of the flash-forwards, otherwise I'd have been out long ago. In fact, I almost didn't watch Only Murders in the Building because I knew that Fogelman was an Executive Producer of the show. 

1 hour ago, Josiemae said:

"And just so you know ... there's a Pilgrim hat."

"And when they tell you that you can wear it, say that you're unworthy of the honor because they'll rip that thing right off your head mid-dinner."

[qtpye]

19 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Shut up Kate, you selfish, miserable, sour-faced harridan. Toby gave up an amazing job, moved cities, became an involved dad, and she’s still bitching, having made ZERO compromises of any kind. I nearly cheered when Toby said his only real crime was not being Jack Pearson.

What on earth does Phillip see in this woman? There is zero reason he would ever go for her. I can’t suspend my disbelief enough for this one. I’d sooner believe Randall became a male stripper.

Was this the first episode with zero flashbacks to the young Big 3 or Jack? No wonder it was so fast-paced but also plot-heavy. This season could have eliminated them entirely and nothing would have been lost.

 

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am not even that big of a Toby fan, but its really hard for me not to take his side in this whole mess. Kate's just exhausting, I feel like she wont be very happy with her second husband either. She's always looking to be miserable, what a Debbie Downer. I have no idea why I should care about this guy we hardly know and his relationship with Kate. The exciting last minute nuptials between dickhead with an alleged heart of gold and a less charming Eeyore. Seriously, I am not super invested in Toby/Kate, but they've had six years to develop, and they broke them up in a couple of episodes and expect us to care about this rando? 

Toby really called it when he said his main flaw was not being Jack. Harsh, but not wrong, another reason why I feel like any marriage for Kate is doomed until she unpacks her shit. If being able to marry either your dad or a ghost was legal...

 

19 hours ago, Jillybean said:

The show would have us believe that (1) Toby would beg Kate to stay married after years of misery, and (2) Kate is the only woman to make Philip happy. Sorry, I'm not buying it. This was a bridge too far.

I am sorry but Toby gives up the SF job and Kate is still bitching to him that he does not do enough for the kids. When he does try parenting his kids, she jumps all over him because it's not perfect and he's not Jack Pearson.

Guess what Katie girl?  Your mother did the lion's share of the work raising you and your brothers so that is why Jack got to swoop in and be the "fun dad".

The same mother you were awful to all your life until she got sick.

Did Kate make any compromises or changes for the marriage to work?

Kate is just an awful person and her happy ending is just the writer's giving us a fairy tale not based on reality.

Phillip has two personalities:

• Mean Jerk
• British

Oh, I'm British and we don't (fill in the blank).

 

 

 

[Gloria0429]

Did anyone else realize that Katoby's storyline was moving chronologically while Phate's story was shown backwards, and they eventually converged at the end of the episode?

[chocolatine]

51 minutes ago, Gloria0429 said:

Did anyone else realize that Katoby's storyline was moving chronologically while Phate's story was shown backwards, and they eventually converged at the end of the episode?

I did notice that, but showing the story of a character we'd barely seen before in reverse chronological order does nothing to get the audience invested in that character.

[Trillian]

1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

Well, at least your earworm is no longer "Saturday in the Park!" 

It wasn’t anymore - until I read your post. Gee, thanks for putting it back in my ear. 

[chocolatine]

17 minutes ago, Trillian said:

It wasn’t anymore - until I read your post. Gee, thanks for putting it back in my ear. 

How about a mashup?

[mishap]

Hate /watcher here.  

Kate is horrible.    

 I know this is the last season.   And i suppose that is why they did not have time to let Kate be single for awhile.  But that does bother me.    In real life, Phillip and Kate would never last because she would bring all the old issues to this new relationship.  And more, because  of tragedy competition.  'My dad died when i needed him most.  It was just your wife and you were splitting up anyway'.   Yikes but that seems like how she would think.  

 Oh wait,  Kate does not have any issues.   I forgot.  🙄

 Madison should put a fast stop to the 'new big 3' crap.  Fine to celebrate with their cousin but they are not the new big 3.  And I hate that they old big 3 were called 'the big 3'.  That is just gross.     

 

[nlkm9]

21 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Shut up Kate, you selfish, miserable, sour-faced harridan. Toby gave up an amazing job, moved cities, became an involved dad, and she’s still bitching, having made ZERO compromises of any kind. I nearly cheered when Toby said his only real crime was not being Jack Pearson.

What on earth does Phillip see in this woman? There is zero reason he would ever go for her. I can’t suspend my disbelief enough for this one. I’d sooner believe Randall became a male stripper.

Was this the first episode with zero flashbacks to the young Big 3 or Jack? No wonder it was so fast-paced but also plot-heavy. This season could have eliminated them entirely and nothing would have been lost.

I hope i dont sound awful, but i find it unrealistic that a woman like Kate would so easily and quickly move on. However i am glad to see she is alive in the future, interesting that the jack tonite was a bit chubby, but future jack is not . I feel horrible that toby had to give up his fabulous job. The whole thing is sad.

[bichonblitz]

I would have preferred to see Kate divorced, single, self sufficient, working on trying to be a better person and happily living her life with her kids.  But nooooo....we have to hook her up with a man right away. 

[ams1001]

3 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Thanks for putting in the work on this timeline. Where does Rebecca's death fall? And why do people keeping saying that Toby is alone when she's dying? Is it the lack of a ring?

I think it was the lack of a ring and the fact hat he's alone in what appears to be a hotel room and looks sad. Though he could just be sad because of the reason he's there. But I guess either he meets his second wife after that, or they're just not married yet at that point.

1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

"And when they tell you that you can wear it, say that you're unworthy of the honor because they'll rip that thing right off your head mid-dinner."

He should just say he's British so it wouldn't be appropriate for him to be Pilgrim Rick. Stay far away from that hat!

[TheBride]

Toby really turned into a nasty guy.

[chocolatine]

22 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

interesting that the jack tonite was a bit chubby, but future jack is not

Maybe once Jack got a bit older, one of the ways he bonded with Toby was over Toby's love of healthy eating and fitness (although adult Jack apparently loves big juicy steaks while Toby is partial to vegan BBQ). I think Toby's relationship with his children, at least with Jack, must have improved tremendously once they got older and Kate wasn't hovering all the time and criticizing every tiny detail of his parenting.

[bybrandy]

7 hours ago, CdrJanny said:

I don't give a rat's patoot that some people think morbid obesity is physically healthy.  I think that's just whistling past the graveyard.

I think those people who think morbid obesity is healthy and doesn't limit mobility should strap 70 to 100 pounds of weight on their bodies and try to go about their daily routine.  

As someone who is "normal" obese (40 pounds over desired weight), I can barely walk, bend, or climb stairs without triggering a COPD episode. I imagine that there are great blobs of fat clogging my arteries and coating my heart and other organs. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Chrissie Metz dies a sudden death in a few years 

 

But because your body can't handle things doesn't mean that every body is the same as yours.  I'm not rah, rah lets all become morbidly obese but I am morbidly obese and I walk 15 miles a day and have recently completed a half marathon in under 3 hours.  My heart rate, blood pressure, and blood sugar are within normal limits and I don't have physical aches and pains anywhere.   Alternately my very good friend is 8 years younger than me and normal weight had to stop running because of the wear and tear she was putting on her knee.    

Again, you may absolutely be right about Kate and Chrissy's long term prognosis but they might be active and feel no pain and be fine.  The only body you know what it feels like to be in is your own.   The only test results you have are your own.  

Chrissy might be in terrible pain and she might die next week.  Or she might be living her best life and live to see 80.   

The studies aren't terribly conclusive about this but a BMI of over 40 in a non smoking woman on average lowered her life expectancy by 5-7 years. 

My dad was morbidly obese from early adulthood he died at 55.   So did his brother and sister neither of whom were ever overweight.   My mother struggled with her weight to some degree but was consistently obese from about age 40-76.  She died last year at 82. 

I don't presume to know where Chrissy Metz falls on the scale of she'll footloose and fancy free until she's in her 80s or she'll keel over dead next week.  I have no idea.  But neither does anybody else.     

 

[bybrandy]

I don't think necessarily that Madison's relationship with Ethan/pregancy means she ad Kevin are off the table.  Ethan could die.  Ethan could abandon her the way her mother did.   We have no idea.  I don't think Madison  is Kevin's endgame.  I'm just saying if we're speculating that married Sophie isn't necessarily the end of her as a possibility for Kevin then pregnant Madison also isn't necessarily the end of her as a possibility for Kevin.  

I'm hoping for somebody new, though.  Or a single Kevin who has found peace in himself.  

[PepSinger]

18 minutes ago, TheBride said:

Toby really turned into a nasty guy.

Kate would make Mother Teresa scream and curse.

[bybrandy]

10 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

 

As far as Kate getting together with Gregory: Tim Omundson who plays him is 52 which I expect TPTB feel is too old for Kate who they seemingly want to present as highly desirable and attractive, allowing her to hook up with cute guys in her age group.  Gregory is too old and not hot enough, I suspect.  Tim Omundson also really did have a stroke and isn't acting when we see Gregory's physical limitations and he might not have wanted to commit to more than we've already seen.  Would've been nice to get a glimpse of him at Kate's fancy engagement party and/or the wedding, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Honestly, I think it is the stroke issue more than the age issue.  Tim Omundson could play say 46 as easily as 52 and that wouldn't be considered remotely weird as an age group.  But that they didn't want to portray Kate having to settle for the guy with the disability rather than her getting the guy they thing is desirable because... um... they do...    

My issue with that is Gregory has a personality and it is one that I like.   We have seen him with Kate building a frienship based on improving their mobility and and being with the kids and I can picture him in Kate's life as a person who would fit.   As opposed to Philip Mean Jerk who they decided to make happen not because it made any sense but because they liked the shock moment at the end of last season.  

[LexieLily]

Kate and Phillip Mean Jerk are getting married and the first time we will learn his last name is at the wedding. 

For that matter, do we know Elijah's last name? Or Sophie's?

Edited April 14, 2022 by LexieLily

[ams1001]

11 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Kate and Phillip Mean Jerk are getting married and the first time we will learn his last name is at the wedding. 

For that matter, do we know Elijah's last name? Or Sophie's?

Sophie Larson. Elijah doesn't seem to even be listed on the wiki list of characters.

I laughed when I got to the bottom of the list of main characters.

[drafan]

I honestly thought that the "punchline" for the week was going to be that Philip was blind. That would make a whole lot of sense.

The whole explanation of what happened to his former wife made me choke on my seltzer from laughing so hard. They really wanted him to say, "....and she ran out into the cobblestone street on her toothpick legs and, blimey,  it was hailing and she was blind and couldn't open her brolly, so she fell into an English mud puddle and died." Yup, that's it.

The depiction, so far, of Kate and  Alzheimer's is horrendous. Spoken from experience.

Aaaaaannnnnd, while we're at it...the nicknames! Bug, Kev, Tobe, Babe, KatieGirl, The Big 3, Bec, Dej, etc...ugh...yet, Randall is always Randall? Why?

Want to slap Mandy when she says "Jackkkkkkkk" or "Katttttttte", which is every time. Ugh. I want this mess to be over. And, please, no spin-offs. Everyone is too tired of wringing out their beach towels every Tuesday night. //snerk//

 

[LexieLily]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

Sophie Larson. Elijah doesn't seem to even be listed on the wiki list of characters.

I laughed when I got to the bottom of the list of main characters.

Beth's cousin Zoe and Malik are considered main characters? The only non-immediate Pearson I'd consider a main character currently is Madison. 

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, mishap said:

Madison should put a fast stop to the 'new big 3' crap.  Fine to celebrate with their cousin but they are not the new big 3.  And I hate that they old big 3 were called 'the big 3'.  That is just gross.     

I didn't mind Kate, Kevin, and Randall being called The Big 3, but I don't like Hailey and the twins being handed the nickname because it excludes Jack. I know he doesn't share their birthday, but he's not in the club. Granted, he seems to have turned out fine, but I still think it's thoughtless to use a group nickname that excludes one of the kids.

 

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Kate and Phillip Mean Jerk are getting married and the first time we will learn his last name is at the wedding.

Oy, do you think this going to be some big reveal? Maybe his last name is something like Nate. So then we get Kate Nate.

[LexieLily]

Whatever the last name ends up being, do we think Kate will keep Damon as her last name for Jack and Hailey's sake? 

[Snapdragon]

17 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I didn't mind Kate, Kevin, and Randall being called The Big 3, but I don't like Hailey and the twins being handed the nickname because it excludes Jack. I know he doesn't share their birthday, but he's not in the club. Granted, he seems to have turned out fine, but I still think it's thoughtless to use a group nickname that excludes one of the kids.

 

Oy, do you think this going to be some big reveal? Maybe his last name is something like Nate. So then we get Kate Nate.

It excludes four of the kids since none of Randall's children are included either.  Actually, make that five kids since Madison has a baby with Elijah.  

[CdrJanny]

6 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I presume she means that Kate has always felt that no one could ever measure up to her father.  Or maybe the Big 3 thought that.  Had Kate actually had a Pearson-style monologue where she actually 'went off on him' and told him she 'would't allow' Toby to express the notion that Kate's relationship with her father was a factor in the failure of their marriage; I, for one, would've wanted to 'go off' on Kate.  It just would've been more of what we'd already gotten; Kate's absolute refusal to take any responsibility for the failure of her marriage.  I understand that, after 6 years, Chrissy feels bonded to Kate, but I think she's absolutely wrong here.

 

Sing it!

[CdrJanny]

3 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I don't think necessarily that Madison's relationship with Ethan/pregancy means she ad Kevin are off the table.  Ethan could die.  Ethan could abandon her the way her mother did.   We have no idea.  I don't think Madison  is Kevin's endgame.  I'm just saying if we're speculating that married Sophie isn't necessarily the end of her as a possibility for Kevin then pregnant Madison also isn't necessarily the end of her as a possibility for Kevin.  

I'm hoping for somebody new, though.  Or a single Kevin who has found peace in himself.  

Madison's husband's name is Elijah.