S06.E11: Saturday in the Park

[marceline]

I rolled my eyes hard when Toby wanted to talk to Kate about what happened and she said "Not here," then proceeded to walk out the front door so they could fight in the front yard. I'm sure her neighbors were really appreciative of that.

Kate was being such a resentful nag to Toby then crying to everyone else how she just keeps thinking "this will be the day we don't fight." She's the one starting those fights.

People saw a three-year old child walking down the sidewalk and crossing the street and just ignored it? Damn. LA is hardcore.

[Ana88]

8 hours ago, BC4ME said:

Boy Mandy Moore sure poured all of her new mom emotion into that scene where she found little Jack in the park. She just grabbed him up and wrapped herself around him like he was hers. It was intense and believable.

OMG good to know Im not the only one! The scene touched me so randomly out of nowhere and even made me cry!! So crazy. Could literally feel her love through the screen! Made me so thankful for grandmoms <3 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

I also wondered why little Jack thought the meat in the Big Green Egg smelled like apples and pants! Apples I get, but pants?! Geez, how many times do the Pearsons wear their pants before washing them?

I wonder if that was a partial ad lib by little Jack's actor, and Chris Sullivan rolled with it.

4 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

So Beth had Hailey during the anniversary party, but where the heck was Hailey when they went to the park at the beginning of the episode?

In the stroller that Toby was pushing.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Chatty Cake]

There’s too many flashbacks in these episodes. I don’t really care about how the three formed such a bond that they can’t function in normal relationships as adults.We get it. 
The home should have been child proofed. An alarm on the doors would be a good start.

[absnow54]

I’m not a fan of Toby, but I was firmly on his side by the end. The Big Three teaming up against Toby and the babysitter was not heartwarming. I almost wondered when Rebecca watched them sitting on the picnic table in the last scene, if she was mortified by the behavior she’d encouraged when they were children, to see how toxic they’d become, but I’m sure she was actually touched and proud that her kids would be okay without her… even though she was the one who found Jack. 

[Haleth]

This was so hard to watch, even though we knew Jack would be fine.

I am so annoyed with Kate.  Tobey was spot on when he asked her if she even wanted him in LA.  Or does his absence give her an opportunity to constantly berate him?  (Call your own damn plumber, Kate.)  Did she even answer him when he asked if she wanted him there?  He was wearing a Hawaiian shirt, for Pete's sake!  He's trying! 

Who the hell teaches a toddler how to open the door?  That is insane.

Kevin and Randall need to mind their own business.

[Leeds]

 

Hailey?  There's a Hailey?  Oh you mean the TV child that was introduced and then ignored.

[greekmom]

7 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Uh...how is he a douche?

How is Philip a mean jerk?  That speech of Elijiah's to Kevin put him in the douche category for me. MHO.

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Does Kate not understand that all the coddling from her family means they don't think she's able to handle herself? How insulting. *She* should have been the one to tell Kevin and Randall to butt out, not Toby.

I'm not a plumbing expert, but wouldn't there have been warning signs for several weeks before a full-on, ceiling-falling-down catastrophe? I know there had been the earlier leak that Toby's dad - who I thought Toby had said was a plumber or at least a contractor - had fixed. Did he not tell them to watch for water stains or any other signs that it was happening again?

  Hide contents

I'm so disgusted by the preview. Toby apparently agrees to give up the SF job and take the one in LA - so that Kate can have everything exactly as she wants - and Kate is still all woe-is-me and "love wasn't enough?" She's insufferable. 

 

Honestly, I think they would be at the same point or close to it regardless of the SF job.  Their issues started long ago when Toby lost the weight and changed from fun shlub to trim serious dude.

[gameshowjunkie]

I thought the Kate and Toby fighting was very realistic. When things in a marriage are bad you find a way to blame the other person for everything whether it's their fault or not. It's all the anger you're carrying around just waiting for a chance to escape. I felt so badly for Toby with the big 3 ganging up on him like Kate was the victim.

Love drunk Rebecca! And she looked absolutely gorgeous. Yeah they should have punished the kids- totally unacceptable. But I can see why Rebecca found a positive spin there, being loaded and all.

Toddler Jack is so freaking cute. I was melting over his voice. 

Not sure I can handle another Kate and Toby fighting episode. They're spending a disproportionate amount of time on that relationship with not many episodes left...

[hookedontv]

14 minutes ago, Leeds said:

 

Hailey?  There's a Hailey?  Oh you mean the TV child that was introduced and then ignored.

Hailey and Annie need to form a club…

[Jillybean]

18 minutes ago, gameshowjunkie said:

Not sure I can handle another Kate and Toby fighting episode. They're spending a disproportionate amount of time on that relationship with not many episodes left...

Totally agree. From interviews I've read, I think the showrunners feel this is a couple that many are rooting for. I guess they feel they have to show us the minutiae of the breakup. I'm good never seeing another minute of it. 

Nor am I thrilled that next week's episode, "Katoby," is about the evolution of their relationship. We've already been through it as it unfolded throughout the course of the show. It's not like they got together before the pilot episode.

30 minutes ago, greekmom said:

How is Philip a mean jerk? 

He's been shown to be somewhat of an asshole, but we call him Philip Mean Jerk because that's how Kate has him saved in her phone.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Jillybean

[hookedontv]

4 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

He's been shown to be somewhat of an asshole, but we call him Philip Mean Jerk because that's how Kate has him saved in her phone.

Another example of Kate’s maturity-not. What adult does that? Especially with a coworker’s name? 

[Blackie]

8 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Nor am I thrilled that next week's episode, "Katoby," is about the evolution of their relationship. We've already been through it as it unfolded throughout the course of the show. It's not like they got together before the pilot episode.

 

I don't really want to see this either but I think they kind of have to show it because so far this devolution to constant fighting seems to come out of nowhere. Yes it is stressful to have young kids and live apart and couples start to bicker about everything, that is a given. But that Kate would decide that she is NOT going to move to San Fran doesn't jive with what they have shown us so far.

[Ohiopirate02]

9 minutes ago, Blackie said:

 

I don't really want to see this either but I think they kind of have to show it because so far this devolution to constant fighting seems to come out of nowhere. Yes it is stressful to have young kids and live apart and couples start to bicker about everything, that is a given. But that Kate would decide that she is NOT going to move to San Fran doesn't jive with what they have shown us so far.

Kate and Toby have always bickered, both have poor communication skills, and neither one listens to their partner.  We have seen them patch things up but never fix the underlying issues for 5 seasons.  Their marriage imploding was always a matter of when not if.  

[Spartan Girl]

It’s really hard not to compared this storyline with the Miguel being Rebecca’s second husband twist back in the first season. Remember how we all assumed the worst about Miguel marrying his best friend’s wife? But the writers actually went through the effort of showing Miguel and Rebecca as a legitimately good couple while not taking away anything from the love Rebecca and Jack had. And this was long before we got any background on how Miguel and Rebecca fell in love.

Compare that to basically speeding through Kate and Toby’s divorce and second marriage to Phillip. Sure, we can argue that Kate and Toby were on the rocks for a while, but that doesn’t make it feel any less rushed or cheap. Especially when Philip is a new character and there’s no way the writers can do with him in a couple episodes that it took seasons to do with Miguel. We are basically getting the “slower” version of the HIMYM finale. And God help me, I never thought I’d be grateful to that shitty finale (or the trainwrecks that were Game of Thrones and the Falcon and the Winter Soldier) for making me cynical enough to recognize when a character is being done dirty.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[gonzosgirrl]

45 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Nor am I thrilled that next week's episode, "Katoby," is about the evolution of their relationship. We've already been through it as it unfolded throughout the course of the show. It's not like they got together before the pilot episode.

Because they have to ret-con in Toby being a jerk all along to justify Kate's behavior and make her the victim/heroine. Bleh.

[Ohiopirate02]

16 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Kate and Toby have always bickered, both have poor communication skills, and neither one listens to their partner.  We have seen them patch things up but never fix the underlying issues for 5 seasons.  Their marriage imploding was always a matter of when not if.  

Quoting myself to add a thought

The main problem with Kate and Toby is while they may love the other one, they do not like their partner.  Love is not a magic balm that fixes your issues when your issues are a fundamental incompatibility.  Kate is in a codependent relationship with Kevin, a person who's mere presence sets off Toby's feelings of inadequacy.  Look at what happened early in this episode, Kate and Kevin are laughing about that Rebecca doll, Toby enters the room and immediately thinks they are talking about him.  Beth and Miguel told him in season 2 that the Persons are a codependent mess and as a spouse you will have to find your own ways of coping, Toby did not listen.  He is not going to change Kate and her relationships with her brothers.  Kate has to be the one who decides to establish boundaries with her brothers, or not.  

 

I also wanted to add that I think it's telling the way Toby responded to Beth's answer about moving to Philadelphia.  She told him the reasons besides Randall that she moved, reasons having to do with Beth as a person beyond being a wife and mother, and Toby brought it back to marriage.  Toby, Beth is telling you that Kate needs to see a future in SF for herself, and you are not listening.  Toby's plan for SF only has a place for Kate and a wife and mother.  

[Empress1]

 

13 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Toby's plan for SF only has a place for Kate and a wife and mother.  

I don’t think Toby would stop Kate from working. He was already planning for Rebecca and Miguel to stay (not sure if he meant “live with us” or “visit” but the house he loved had space for them, which he was keen to show her), so he was taking those considerations into account. SF has schools for the blind, I am sure.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Empress1

[Leeds]

 

26 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Because they have to ret-con in Toby being a jerk all along to justify Kate's behavior and make her the victim/heroine. Bleh.

She is a Pearson after all.

[cardigirl]

Hate is such a strong word, so I will say I dislike Kate (in all her iterations) extremely, but most especially in her Toby-can-do-no-right mode.  UGH.  And they couldn't have a scene where Kate thanked Rebecca (her own MOTHER) for finding little Jack? 

I am so disappointed that the show chose to take this path with them. I understand that both Toby and Kate were scared out of their minds about Jack and how it could have ended much worse than it did, but holy heck, to start blaming each other for who is most at fault?  Yeah, the marriage is dead. 

I'm really scared that when they divorce, Kate will get full custody and will not allow Toby much access to the kids. And he will feel like he shouldn't or can't fight for it and will go back to being depressed. The flash-forward showed us Randall calling Toby to come to Rebecca's bedside, but we don't know where Toby is, or how his relationship with the family is at that point.  Toby only says, "She won't want me there." To which Randall replies, "She will (or does) want you there."  Is the she Rebecca or Kate? 

 

 

[suzeecat]

Sorry to interrupt the important detail discussion with a pretty inconsequential detail, but how did the babysitter contact the restaurant to report that she was locked in the bathroom?  Did they have cell phones in that time?

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, gameshowjunkie said:

Not sure I can handle another Kate and Toby fighting episode. They're spending a disproportionate amount of time on that relationship with not many episodes left...

 

1 hour ago, Jillybean said:

Totally agree. From interviews I've read, I think the showrunners feel this is a couple that many are rooting for. I guess they feel they have to show us the minutiae of the breakup. I'm good never seeing another minute of it. 

Why would the audience be rooting for a couple we know are going to break up and eventually Kate marries Philip?  If in the final flash forward Kate and Toby are back together then what was the point of her marrying Philip?

The more the show seems to want me be on Kate's side the farther I move to Toby's side.

[cardigirl]

1 minute ago, suzeecat said:

Sorry to interrupt the important detail discussion with a pretty inconsequential detail, but how did the babysitter contact the restaurant to report that she was locked in the bathroom?  Did they have cell phones in that time?

When Jack releases her from the bathroom, she hands him the phone. Not sure why she took the phone in there, unless she was looking for privacy from the kids. 

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I'm really scared that when they divorce, Kate will get full custody and will not allow Toby much access to the kids.

I can totally see Kate being that petty.  

[Empress1]

3 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Toby only says, "She won't want me there." To which Randall replies, "She will (or does) want you there."  Is the she Rebecca or Kate? 

I would assume Kate. Rebecca probably wouldn’t know the difference at that point - Randall, her favorite, has to identify himself to her so she may not even remember Toby. It’s good that Toby went anyway - she’s the grandmother to his kids, he should pay his respects. (If Kate does indeed not want him there, that’s really petty. You put that aside at someone’s deathbed. Her not wanting him there would be making it about her, which is pretty in character.)

[Ohiopirate02]

Just now, cardigirl said:

When Jack releases her from the bathroom, she hands him the phone. Not sure why she took the phone in there, unless she was looking for privacy from the kids. 

I think she was supposed to be the stereotypical shitty 80s babysitter.  The one who takes the job for the money and doesn't care about the kids.  She took the phone in the bathroom to hide and talk to her friends on the Pearson's dime.  She was upset that the kids were not going to sleep because that's what they are supposed to do so she can eat all the food and talk on the phone until the parents came back.

[Jax7917]

I liked this episode but the flashbacks just for the sake of including Milo in the episode are getting pointless. That storyline as kids was really unnecessary and the show didn't connect the two stories well. The kids locking the babysitter in the closet was Rebecca's favorite anniversary? That's really sad. It would have made more sense if there was a kid bullying Kate because of her weight and her brothers stuck up for her. The show is really trying hard to include Milo but as the seasons have gone on, it's become pointless.

The fight was between Toby and Kate. He wasn't being abusive to her, it was a fight between husband and wife. Her brothers (especially Kevin) chiming in was inappropriate and annoying. Kevin really needs a life of his own. I'm also tired of "which girl will he choose to spend his life with?" because 6 seasons have gone by and only a few episodes left, and still none of the women they have shown with him so far have made an impact on the viewers. Whoever he ends up with is not a lucky woman lol. He's an indecive mess.

[himela]

11 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Hey Kate, Toby left the baby gate open which led to Jack wandering around the house. You left the front door open which led to Jack wandering around Los Angeles. Shut the hell up.

Hold on. When Kate left the front door unlocked she was under the impression Jack was in his room with his room door locked. We have to take this also into consideration.

[Empress1]

8 minutes ago, himela said:

Hold on. When Kate left the front door unlocked she was under the impression Jack was in his room with his room door locked. We have to take this also into consideration.

I don’t think she intentionally left the door unlocked. when she realized it was, she was shocked and upset. She wasn’t thinking “Jack is safe, I don’t have to lock the door.” She just forgot to lock it.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

27 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

I liked this episode but the flashbacks just for the sake of including Milo in the episode are getting pointless. That storyline as kids was really unnecessary and the show didn't connect the two stories well. The kids locking the babysitter in the closet was Rebecca's favorite anniversary? That's really sad. It would have made more sense if there was a kid bullying Kate because of her weight and her brothers stuck up for her. The show is really trying hard to include Milo but as the seasons have gone on, it's become pointless.

I believe they were trying to show the parallels between Rebecca's two 10th anniversary celebrations, neither of which worked out as she had hoped (although, Rebecca was drunk and happy the first time.)

[himela]

4 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I don’t think she intentionally left the door unlocked. when she realized it was, she was shocked and upset. She wasn’t thinking “Jack is safe, I don’t have to lock the door.” She just forgot to lock it.

She didn't forget to lock the door intentionally but the moment she left it unlocked she didn't pay much attention because in her mind Jack was safe in his room. She was shocked when she saw the door unlocked because she knew at that moment that the room door had been unlocked and that Jack must have left from the front door.

I'm not trying to defend her, but the mind has a weird way of making things happen.

[himela]

11 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Kevin said it was six months (when he was telling Randall about it in the car).

And she's the one who would have to be there to let the plumber in, so why wouldn't she be the one to schedule the appointment? Does Toby have a calendar of all her daily errands and park outings?

We saw in the "previously on this is us" that Toby said "I will fix it". So if Kate had ignored him and had called a plumber instead, we would say "Kate disrespected Toby's wishes". I think Kate will be wrong whatever she does. :P

[CountryGirl]

This was a very difficult episode to watch, for so many reasons, but another good, realistic look at a marriage that was already on a shaky foundation crumble even further. The metaphor with the ceiling literally caving in, in two places, was perfectly-timed. 

Equally effective was "seeing" things from Jack's perspective as we saw from the opening moments where Jack woke up due to overhearing Kate and Toby's argument (during which we learned Kate owned up to applying for the full-time position right away). Few things are worse than being a child in your bed and hearing your parents yelling and feeling powerless to stop it or that you were somehow the cause. Even whisper-yelling as they were doing carries more than one might think as happened here.

It struck me then, as it would later, at the park, how in the moments where Kate and Toby were reassuring Jack, how even with all of their issues (and they are many)they came together for their son. 

There is another rare moment of unity with Kate and Toby taking the kids to the park and OMG, the cuteness that is Jack singing the song Kate taught him to help guide him to the park. Kate and Toby pushing Jack on the swing and looking at each other and actually laughing. I could see the hope there, that they could get back to good, so they can have a lifetime of such moments, with each other and the family they have created.

But that happiness is short-lived, a patch of sorts (yes, pun intended) as it's now the day of the anniversary party and the tension has most assuredly returned. I love the hug between Randall and Kate as moments between them are rarer and how she gets him to get Kevin out of the house and out of Toby's hair. And we learn that Kevin finally is moving into his own house (about damn time, Kev!)

The ceiling starts leaking (which IIRC, Toby's dad warned him about when they did the initial "fix" in a previous season) and the tension escalates. 

There is the very important conversation between Rebecca and Jack about his Saturday boots and can I just say how amazing an actor Johnny Kincaid is. 

Beth being the amazing Beth has drinks for herself and Toby. I liked that they had a conversation about her family moving to Philly and that Beth clarifies it wasn't just for Randall, but herself and her work. And yes, her marriage, as Toby, who isn't wrong here, points out, but it wasn't an overnight decision where Beth instantly capitulated either. This is why it is dangerous to compare marriages as it's never that simple. 

Elsewhere, with the Madison/Kevin/Elijah bit, can I hope that this finally puts a nail in the Kevison coffin? Madison seems genuinely happy and in love and "excited" that Elijah is planning to propose. I don't see it as all that fast as they are talking about getting engaged to be married after six months of dating (which isn't that unusual). If it were getting married, that might seem a bit rushed, but they could easily be engaged for several months to a year. I also caught myself yelling "mandrel" at the screen when Elijah was referencing the ring sizer (I sold engagement rings in another life).  

I loved Randall for taking Kevin for another drive to get any notion of sending dumb-ass texts to Madison out of his head as well as literally smacking his phone out of his hands. Randall pointedly asking if the news made Kevin have any realizations and Kevin taking a long pause, only to respond "I don't know" tells me all I need to know that Kevison is not end-game. If after all this time, he still cannot easily answer "yes" or "I do love her," then it ain't happening.

I did like the moment where Kevin shared that he is happy for her and Madison telling him to keep her as his emergency contact. They share twins; it makes perfect sense to me.

For once, I wasn't that invested in the flashback stuff to Jack and Rebecca's anniversary. The babysitter and the kids were equally annoying. And Miguel having to share his milestone anniversary with flashbacks irritated me.

With respect to Jack getting out of the house, both Toby and Kate are equally to blame. Him for not ensuring the gate was closed. Her for not locking the front door after the plumber arrived. But shit happens, including kids getting out of the house, and in all of the chaos, it's not all that shocking. Even if it was terrifying watching little Jack navigate his way to the park.

I had a feeling the Big Green Egg would be a Big Red Herring but I get why Jack associates it with the demise of his parents' marriage. They made a very pointed effort to show Toby holding Jack near BGE and letting him smell the food cooking. With Jack being blind, his other senses are likely heightened and even if not blind, smells or sounds can bring back memories so much more than a visual for me.

Rebecca was really the MVP here with the earlier conversation with Jack and she clearly paid attention to his going through his shoe collection, honing in on the Red Boots of Saturday Park Fun being missing. I will say that Kate having set them up as part of the routine was helpful to solving the puzzle of "where is Jack?" (though obviously indirectly). 

Mandy was amazing as she raced to the park, then found him and scooped him up and holding him tightly. 

Little Jack getting stitches - I cringed for him and his parents. I appreciated the moment of Rebecca confiding to Kevin that she couldn't remember enough details to fill out the medical forms juxtaposed with her rescue of Jack. The irony of that, but so realistic to the disease.

Another fight and again, show did an amazing job with making me feel that, where I wanted to look away, it was so ugly and painful and real. We start to see the unpacking of their long-held issues that really go back to Jack's birth and Toby's inability, no matter how understandable as it would be a shock to process the reality of their son's diagnosis, to face Jack's condition. He counters that Kate fails to see any limitations with Jack and that, too, is problematic.

While I do think Kevin and Randall should have mostly stayed out of it, I cannot imagine pulling up and seeing someone yelling at my sibling, inches from their face, their finger in their face and just strolling on by. That's not realistic whatsoever, but I do agree that one comment was sufficient. Quite honestly, if Kate and Toby have any hope of saving their marriage, they need to lay all their shit bare so they can actually address it, instead of dancing around it or limping by on the days when Toby is in LA that, as any long-distance couple will know, me and MH included a decade ago, feel more like a honeymoon because no one wants to rock the boat. 

I did feel for Toby when Kate went off with her brothers to be comforted while he was left to deal with the emotions of the day and the past month alone. I appreciated Rebecca coming into Jack's room and seeing a devastated Toby and giving him that little pat to show she cares about him. And seeing Toby sobbing while he watches his little boy sleep was gut-wrenching. As was Kate's realization that Jack went to the park because "that's where Mommy and Daddy are happy." 😢 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, himela said:

We saw in the "previously on this is us" that Toby said "I will fix it". So if Kate had ignored him and had called a plumber instead, we would say "Kate disrespected Toby's wishes". I think Kate will be wrong whatever she does. :P

Toby would have flown off the handle if Kate dared to call a plumber to fix the pipes.  How dare she insult his manhood like that.  He said he would fix it, it's fixed.  Seriously, Toby takes every criticism from Kate as a deep insult.  She tries to tell him that the gate in Jack's room has issues and you need to listen for the click.  He takes that as nagging instead of listening to her.  I know someone will correct me and say it's all about Kate's tone, but it's not that.  It's doesn't matter what tone she uses, he is not listening to her.  Their problems are deeper than that.  

[Lisa418722]

Nothing is ever Kate's fault /s/. The flashback showing Kevin and Randall protecting her even as kids means Kate never has had to take any responsibility. Everything is always someone else's fault and her family will protect her. I hate to admit it, but I cheered last night when Kate left the door unlocked. To me, she was more at fault that Jack left the house. Yeah, Toby left the gate unlatched, but if Kate had locked the door, Jack wouldn't have been able to get outside. At least Toby did take responsibility, but Kate will never take responsibility.

Jack is adorable.  I loved his "oopsie" when they found the leak and then him telling Rebecca about his low tops, high tops, rubber boots, and the dressy shoes (but he didn't like those).  Showing the viewers how he sees made it more effective to me.   And since Kate didn't think Rebecca should stay with the kids any longer, I'm glad it was Rebecca that saw the boots missing and figured out where Jack was.

I'm thinking Kate and Phillip Mean Jerk deserve each other.  Toby needs to get out of that destructive relationship with Kate and be able to focus on being a dad to Jack and Hailey without Kate telling him how he is messing everything up.  I know if I have someone telling me how much I'm messing up, I'm going to be more likely to keep on messing up.  I think that is what is happening to Toby. 

I was hoping for a Miguel and Rebecca episode, but I guess that's not going to happen unless they do kill Miguel off and have it in that episode (no spoiler, just speculation).  

Edited April 6, 2022 by Lisa418722

[Artsda]

Loved all the Kevin and Randall scenes, especially Randall slapping the phone trying to stop him from making impulse decision on like declaring love to hold onto Madison.

I guess that's end of Madison and Kevin. I really hope he's not with Sophie in future, but I guess that is coming. Stick with Madison! I don't like the new boyfriend. 

Kate was bitchy to Toby all episode, but he flew off the handle when she wanted to call the plumber to fix the original leak. He refused and said it's fixed, so I don't blame her for being pissed at that reoccurring.  

Toby also wasn't best himself, who cares what Kevin and Kate were laughing about? He flipped at that even. He was mad she was enabling a blind child to do things himself. 

I did like the scene on the lawn if big 3 with Randall in front with Toby's "there it is" comment. I like siblings unified like that. 

Loved drunk Rebecca night out and Jack side eyeing get comments. Lol

 

 

[wonderwoman]

might be losing my mind here.

but i remember a scene after jack and rebecca talk with the kids about locking the babysitter with the whole family in bed and rebecca saying about happy she was that the kids stuck up for each other. i thought to myself ‘be careful what you for.’ i wanted to know exactly what she said before commenting, so i watched the episode on hulu — went through it frame-by-frame — and CANNOT FIND THAT SCENE. 

anyone have any thoughts?

[Racj82]

9 hours ago, After7Only said:

But are they though?….I’m not seeing a ton on Team Kate out there.   I think the show is showing how they both contributed to the marriage ending.   They may even be purposely putting more of the blame on Kate.   

I'm talking about how the show is writing Kate. Just like with Jack, it's creating resentment and annoyance with the character as result of all the propping up.

[Haleth]

I guess Beth and Miguel decided to get out of that house as soon as Jack was found. Leave that Pearson drama to the Pearsons.

Did one of them say the house was in Westwood?  Just wondering if I heard correctly.

I would bet little Jack’s apples and pants observation was an ad lib. So cute.  

[Empress1]

12 minutes ago, Artsda said:

I did like the scene on the lawn if big 3 with Randall in front with Toby's "there it is" comment. I like siblings unified like that. 

And see, I hated that. They WERE ganging up on Toby and it was totally unfair to him as a person and disrespectful to his marriage. He was right when he asked Kevin what he was doing there. (Kate never should have let him stay that long. It’s not like he needs to save up first, last and security. He’s independently wealthy AND apparently getting paid a ton for the reboot he’s doing. All he had to do all along was call a realtor. Kate let him stay because they’re codependent but it would have been far more appropriate to give him a deadline.)

And I don’t think either Randall or Kevin would tolerate that from the others. I can’t think of an instance where Kevin or Kate was disrespectful to Beth but I can easily see Randall telling them not to speak to his wife that way if they ever were - as well he should, that’s his wife. Kevin defended Madison against Toby in the episode where they went over there for dinner after Toby lost his job. It’s Kate who allows her family of origin (really, her siblings; Rebecca doesn’t butt in. She’s the only one who offered Toby any support) to disrupt her marriage.

[Spartan Girl]

15 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

Nothing is ever Kate's fault /s/. The flashback showing Kevin and Randall protecting her even as kids means Kate never has had to take any responsibility. Everything is always someone else's fault and her family will protect her. I hate to admit it, but I cheered last night when Kate left the door unlocked. To me, she was more at fault that Jack left the house. Yeah, Toby left the gate unlatched, but if Kate had locked the door, Jack wouldn't have been able to get outside. At least Toby did take responsibility, but Kate will never take responsibility.

Kate really is starting to remind me of another female character who never takes accountability for anything she does. She expects her husband to do everything then promptly bitches him out for his incompetency. Who whines about her problems rather than actually DOING something. Who is an insufferable nag, yet is constantly coddled because everyone sees her as a martyred special snowflake that deserves everything:

 

[Leeds]

Am I the only one who can't stand Rebecca?  (At any age.)

[Cancun]

20 minutes ago, wonderwoman said:

might be losing my mind here.

but i remember a scene after jack and rebecca talk with the kids about locking the babysitter with the whole family in bed and rebecca saying about happy she was that the kids stuck up for each other. i thought to myself ‘be careful what you for.’ i wanted to know exactly what she said before commenting, so i watched the episode on hulu — went through it frame-by-frame — and CANNOT FIND THAT SCENE. 

anyone have any thoughts?

It’s at the 59 minute mark, separate from the “kids confess on the couch” scene earlier. They were all together in bed, kids sleeping, and Rebecca says it was the best anniversary gift - her kinds banding together to protect one another. Jack says he wants her “better” gift early at Christmas.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Kate really is starting to remind me of another female character who never takes accountability for anything she does. She expects her husband to do everything then promptly bitches him out for his incompetency. Who whines about her problems rather than actually DOING something. Who is an insufferable nag, yet is constantly coddled because everyone sees her as a martyred special snowflake that deserves everything:

 

Kate and Toby's fights remind me of a trope-y sitcom.  I was thinking more Everybody Loves Raymond.  Seriously though, the one episode where Kate sells Toby's Star Wars action figures due to a miscommunication is just like that one episode of ELR when Debra throws out Ray's letter from Muhammad Ali.  In a sitcom, Kate's "nagging" would be played for laughs, so would Toby's failure to make sure the gate was secure, and they would find Jack at the park happily playing.  Wait a minute, ELR did a similar story when both Ray and Debra run to the store and leave the twins at home only to be saved by their eldest.  There is probably also an episode where Ray tells Debra he fixed something only to find out he in fact did not, but I can't name it off the top of my head.

Are the writers actually trying to show how sitcom tropes do not work in real life, or am I giving them too much credit.

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Quoting myself to add a thought

The main problem with Kate and Toby is while they may love the other one, they do not like their partner.  Love is not a magic balm that fixes your issues when your issues are a fundamental incompatibility.  Kate is in a codependent relationship with Kevin, a person who's mere presence sets off Toby's feelings of inadequacy.  Look at what happened early in this episode, Kate and Kevin are laughing about that Rebecca doll, Toby enters the room and immediately thinks they are talking about him.  Beth and Miguel told him in season 2 that the Persons are a codependent mess and as a spouse you will have to find your own ways of coping, Toby did not listen.  He is not going to change Kate and her relationships with her brothers.  Kate has to be the one who decides to establish boundaries with her brothers, or not.  

 

I also wanted to add that I think it's telling the way Toby responded to Beth's answer about moving to Philadelphia.  She told him the reasons besides Randall that she moved, reasons having to do with Beth as a person beyond being a wife and mother, and Toby brought it back to marriage.  Toby, Beth is telling you that Kate needs to see a future in SF for herself, and you are not listening.  Toby's plan for SF only has a place for Kate and a wife and mother.  

Nodding along to all of this. Toby knew the score regarding the Big 3's bond and yes, co-dependency long before he married Kate. 

Beth also stressed that it wasn't a unilateral decision or instantaneous when they moved to Philly. It only happened because Beth was given the space and time by Randall to see a life for herself, not just Randall's wife, but as Beth the individual in Philly. The move would never have happened if Beth's needs had not been addressed. I don't see where Kate has been given that opportunity, most significantly, Toby's dismissive comments about her job (which he scoffed at again in last night's episode). Toby isn't wrong for wanting his family under one roof, but Kate needs something of her own beyond taking care of the kids and their home. Being fulfilled in one's work has been amazing for Toby - he needs to see that Kate is no different and that although her part-time job pays peanuts compared to his salary, it is very fulfilling and rewarding for her and makes her a better parent and individual and, I would argue, a better partner. 

[wonderwoman]

6 minutes ago, Cancun said:

It’s at the 59 minute mark, separate from the “kids confess on the couch” scene earlier. They were all together in bed, kids sleeping, and Rebecca says it was the best anniversary gift - her kinds banding together to protect one another. Jack says he wants her “better” gift early at Christmas.

thanks — for some reason i thought it came earlier in the episode. seeing it only reinforces my ‘being careful what you wish for.’ her comment that this was a seminal moment — and in a good way — speaks volumes about why the big three are so fucked up.

[gonzosgirrl]

Since I haven't had a lot good to say about Randall lately, I feel I should add: him smacking the phone out of Kevin's hand was a highlight of the episode. This was the early seasons Randall I loved. Kevin is probably my favourite character at this point, but he needed a good ass-kicking last night.

[Seelouis]

I say this every week it seems but the saving grace of this show is now the adorable little boy who plays Jack. He’s so great with his lines!  I’m not sure if they feed the lines to him or they just tell him what to talk about or if he ad libs, but he’s amazing. He stays in the scene and reacts appropriately to the adult actors. What a great find by the casting folks! 

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Since I haven't had a lot good to say about Randall lately, I feel I should add: him smacking the phone out of Kevin's hand was a highlight of the episode. This was the early seasons Randall I loved. Kevin is probably my favourite character at this point, but he needed a good ass-kicking last night.

They were good in the car, and bantered the way only siblings can.  

[ams1001]

3 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

There’s too many flashbacks in these episodes. I don’t really care about how the three formed such a bond that they can’t function in normal relationships as adults.We get it. 
The home should have been child proofed. An alarm on the doors would be a good start.

They really need to add some kind of latch higher up on the door. It seems like he can just about reach the doorknob but it won't be long before he can reach the lock itself, and it won't take him long to figure it out. My door has a hook-and-eye latch at the top and I assume it was leftover from when the previous owner's son was little (it would be useless against someone trying to break in).

9 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

“After three I’m under the table, after four I’m under my host.” Is that you, Dorothy Parker? 😛

Lol, nah, I'd just be asleep on the floor.

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Kate and Toby have always bickered, both have poor communication skills, and neither one listens to their partner.  We have seen them patch things up but never fix the underlying issues for 5 seasons.  Their marriage imploding was always a matter of when not if.  

Just like their ceiling.