S01.E04: She’s a Loving Daughter

[Whimsy]

Quote

As Russ' new trial looms ahead, Pam faces money troubles, a relentless Dateline producer and difficulty caring for her sick mother. DA Leah Askey realizes Pam may not be the star witness she thought. Joel Schwartz makes breakthroughs in his case.

Original airdate 3/29/22

[Melina22]

I'm enjoying this show so much. I laughed out loud when Keith Morrison suddenly says snarkily in voiceover, "Done with Dateline?" or something similar. 

I never thought Renee could be this great at being absolutely loathsome. I'm glad they didn't linger too long on her treatment of her little girl, though, because it was too painful to watch.

The show hints at the family roots of Pam's personality disorder, without trying to make her a sympathetic person. I appreciate this. 

[Spartan Girl]

“She’s not lying, she just keeps changing her story.”

I’m ready for this bitch prosecutor to get her comeuppance. Her and Pam.

[Annber03]

And there goes Pam's mom. The moment she threatened to cut off her daughter completely, she signed her death warrant. 

(Love the kids stumbling upon the body and thinking it was fake at first. It made sense they'd assume that here, 'cause Halloween, but I like how that was a nod to all the times in true crime series where people are like, "I thought it was a mannequin at first!" every time they stumble upon a dead body.)

"Did you know that Betsy had an inverted nipple?"

The way Pam just randomly threw that out there... And OH MY GOD, I remember that Magic Mike comment! I remember that from the interview on the "Dateline" episode, 'cause I recall thinking, "...overcompensating much here, Pam?" The reactions of everyone to her rambling story about her relationship with Betsy were hilarious. 

"She's not lying, she just keeps...changing her story." Yeah. Why do you think that is, lady? Her call requesting destruction of evidence....damn.  Someone's grumpy her case isn't going the way she wanted it to go. 

I feel so bad for Pam's daughter. That bit with them bidding on the house, hoo boy. 

On a significantly lighter note, I just have to say again that I'm really enjoying Duhamel in this series :D. That whole scene with him in the courtroom had me all, "Go, Schwartz, go!" 

"Maybe nobody will see this." LOL. 

[Straycat80]

Pam had an awful mother and she was an awful mother. 
I’m glad they found Russ innocent. I still don’t understand how he was convicted anyway and how Pam got away with keeping the money meant for the two daughters. I hope the prosecutor didn’t win her re-election. 
Renee is killing it (no pun intended) as Pam. 

[Irlandesa]

The first episode of this series was slower than I had hoped but it has been gaining momentum, especially once we hit the trials.

I was also surprised Pam didn't want to do Dateline. I thought she would have loved the attention. And the DA calling to have the evidence destroyed is so infuriating.  I only wish we could prosecute DAs.  She clearly did that to cover for her own incompetence.

But how giddy must the Dateline people have been once they realized what a case they were witnessing.

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

But how giddy must the Dateline people have been once they realized what a case they were witnessing.

I would truly love to be a fly on the wall sometimes when the people who work at "Dateline" or "48 Hours" or other similar shows are discussing the cases they're profiling. Especially after they've interviewed or had some kind of contact with somebody particularly unusual/shady/creepy - I always wonder what they must be saying to each other afterward about them. 

[nora1992]

The insightful assistant for the win!

Isn’t Askey’s question about the election FB page during working hours a violation of campaign laws?  But given everything else depicted in the series, that barely registers.

Betsy’s poor family: it keeps getting worse for them.  Grief clouds judgment.  If it happened to someone they knew instead of them, could they have seen through Pam?

[LGGirl]

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

On a significantly lighter note, I just have to say again that I'm really enjoying Duhamel in this series :D. That whole scene with him in the courtroom had me all, "Go, Schwartz, go!" 

I’m watching the show because of Duhamel.  Love the guy and he rarely disappoints.  

[LGGirl]

1 hour ago, nora1992 said:

Betsy’s poor family: it keeps getting worse for them.  Grief clouds judgment.  If it happened to someone they knew instead of them, could they have seen through Pam?

Maybe.  I think it is too hard for them to believe that they were duped by someone so evil.   Russ, being no saint, makes him an easier and logical target.  
 

I remember the original Dateline.   Logically you knew it couldn’t be him but if not him then who?  No one thinks a woman could do this.   

[tennisgurl]

I am really glad I decided to check this show out, its an absolutely wild ride. I was aware of this case but not the details, so seeing it all play out is absolutely fascinating, its nuts how much of this really did happen, like the Magic Mike rant. The utter incompetence of the cops, DA, and judge was so infuriating, I am so relieved to see Russ exonerated. I am really impressed that they manage to have so much tension in a case where a quick google can tell you exactly what is going to happen. Massive props to Renee, who I had previously been a bit meh on, she is doing an amazing job at making Pam so utterly loathsome that I truly want to reach through the screen and strangle her. 

Everyone's expressions, especially Tina's, as Pam rambled on about her and Betsey's torrid not really affair, were amazing. I also cracked up at their goofy smiles while they played softball in the basement and then Russ stomping down as he evilly eats a drumstick, its all so ridiculous. 

Pam had a lousy mom, and become a lousy mom. I am glad that they didn't show much of her raising young Sara, the bits we got were hard enough to watch. I knew that Pam's mom was toast the second she threatened to cut her out of the will and replace her with Sara, the daughter she clearly still resents for being born. She really is wracking up quite the body count.

I was full on cheering for Schwartz tearing apart those idiot cops in the courtroom and showing what a competence looks like. I cant wait for that smug awful DA to get what's coming to her, and now she's trying to hide evidence, either to hide her incompetence or out of petty spite. Or both. She's clearly way more interested in "winning" then in justice. 

The Dateline people must have been besides themselves as they looked into this case further, they must have known they were striking gold. 

[nora1992]

33 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

The Dateline people must have been besides themselves as they looked into this case further, they must have known they were striking gold. 

If Dateline hadn’t done the case, would Russ still be in jail?  His lawyer is great, but did all the attention prove more effective than skilled counsel?

The whole situation proves the necessity of the Innocence Project.

Can you imagine Pam as a teacher?  Was that true? 

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, LGGirl said:

Logically you knew it couldn’t be him but if not him then who?  No one thinks a woman could do this.   

Yes, it's not like Betsy was shot once, or something relatively "normal". It looked like a Manson family crime scene, the very opposite of calm and calculated. 

[nomodrama]

I just finished listening the Dateline podcast on this, the episode where they covered Russ's re-trail was incredibly moving. Joel Schwartz came off as incredibly humble when discussing the impact of what he had done for Russ, it really showed that he was genuinely on Russ's side from the start and seemed willing to overturn every stone to make things right for him. 

Leah Askey (who changed her last name, presumably because she got married but also probably to escape the notoriety) was interviewed about requesting destruction of evidence and firmly denies that she did it. I'm glad that the way that they depicted it on the show leaves no doubt that no one buys her denial. I honestly can't believe that Askey did not know or suspect that Pam was lying from the start, I think she just didn't care. I think she knows the statistics, knew she could reasonably pin this on Russ, she had an ace in the hole with the equally vapid judge that seemed to want to be on her good side. A win would only help secure her reelection. She seems like a really awful person. 

Even knowing all these details from reading about the case and the podcast, I was still on the edge of my seat this episode. I was tensely annoyed that they kept interjecting parts of Pam's past in between the trial, like just get to the verdict already!!!! And yes, Pam's mom was a piece of work....the apple didn't fall far from the tree at all there. 

[Cozytea]

25 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Yes, it's not like Betsy was shot once, or something relatively "normal". It looked like a Manson family crime scene, the very opposite of calm and calculated. 

I find it interesting that in one episode the DA tells the daughter (?) Pam wasn't strong enough to carry out the murder. And Pam herself says the same the to one of the cops,( I'm not sure if  it was on the movie or  on Dateline in one of Pam's interview with the cops). Pam and Betsy were not that different in size and Betsy had cancer and was going through chemo.  I guess it's true, when you say something enough people believe it.

[LexieLily]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I was full on cheering for Schwartz tearing apart those idiot cops in the courtroom and showing what a competence looks like. I cant wait for that smug awful DA to get what's coming to her, and now she's trying to hide evidence, either to hide her incompetence or out of petty spite. Or both. She's clearly way more interested in "winning" then in justice. 

Yeah, couldn't she/shouldn't she have been disbarred just for that alone?

[Melina22]

54 minutes ago, Cozytea said:

Pam and Betsy were not that different in size and Betsy had cancer and was going through chemo.  I guess it's true, when you say something enough people believe

I never thought about the strength thing. I suppose surprise would be a huge factor in overcoming Betsy's defence. I was thinking more that most people would think a woman couldn't be aggressive or mentally brutal enough to do this to a friend in cold blood. It seemed incredibly unlikely. 

[bigmag]

I can't believe that you can issue instructions to destroy evidence with simply a phone call. How could the identity of the caller even be verified?  Anyone could call claiming to be the DA and order that.  Surely it would require a signed request in writing.

[larapu2000]

40 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

I never thought about the strength thing. I suppose surprise would be a huge factor in overcoming Betsy's defence. I was thinking more that most people would think a woman couldn't be aggressive or mentally brutal enough to do this to a friend in cold blood. It seemed incredibly unlikely. 

So true.  In Game of Thrones, Ned Stark remarks that poison is a "woman's weapon" and that's very true.  Women, when they kill, generally choose "softer" and less confrontational methods of murder.  I'd love to know if Pam was a true crime fan that knew this.  But also, 

Spoiler

I believe the autopsy revealed that the neck wound was what killed Betsy.  Most of the stabbing wounds, and the wrist wounds were post mortem, if I remember the details from the book Bone Deep correctly.  So maybe Pam only had to get the "big one" in, like the carotid in the neck, and just hold Betsy down until she passed out.

There are so many stories of DA's fighting for victims and facing uphill battles against wickedly smart defendants and defense attorneys that many times, they can't even garner the evidence needed to charge someone.  The willful ignorance she displayed is literally criminal.  I can't believe she didn't get disbarred.  Russ literally had an airtight alibi.

[Cinnabon]

I noticed young Pam didn’t yet have the horrendous accent she does in middle age. It hurts my ears to hear it.

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I noticed young Pam didn’t yet have the horrendous accent she does in middle age. It hurts my ears to hear it.

On that note, I meant to say last night that they did a good job on the casting for young Pam. You could see the resemblance to current day Pam.

[leocadia]

On 3/30/2022 at 9:54 AM, nora1992 said:

The insightful assistant for the win!

I absolutely loved her expressions during the interview with Pam, it's like she was all of us sitting there thinking "How could anyone believe this BS?"Great work by the actress without saying a word!

 

On 3/30/2022 at 1:17 PM, nomodrama said:

I honestly can't believe that Askey did not know or suspect that Pam was lying from the start, I think she just didn't care. I think she knows the statistics, knew she could reasonably pin this on Russ, she had an ace in the hole with the equally vapid judge that seemed to want to be on her good side. A win would only help secure her reelection.

I agree completely.  I also thought how lucky it was for Russ Faria that his lawyer did care so much.  I think many people would have walked away after that sham of a trial and left him in jail.

Edited March 31, 2022 by leocadia

[izabella]

I wasn't clear on young Pam's love life.  She becomes pregnant and then marries her husband, father of her daughter.  Then she cozies up to AAA guy at the bar.  Next thing we see is her with AAA guy her daughter and another child, and AAA is asking her for money.  Who is her current husband?  Is he one of those two guys, or a different guy altogether?

[AHandMarvelfan]

21 hours ago, Cozytea said:

I find it interesting that in one episode the DA tells the daughter (?) Pam wasn't strong enough to carry out the murder. And Pam herself says the same the to one of the cops,( I'm not sure if  it was on the movie or  on Dateline in one of Pam's interview with the cops). Pam and Betsy were not that different in size and Betsy had cancer and was going through chemo.  I guess it's true, when you say something enough people believe it.

How close is the shows portrails of the size of Betsy and Pam compared to the real life women?

In this screenshot from episode 4 Betsy (Katy Mixon) looks bigger than Pam (Fat suit wearing Renee Zellweger)

Ofcourse Betsy thought Pam was her friend, so I guess Pam could have gotten very close to an unsuspecting Betsy and attacked her neck area.

[RunningMarket]

10 hours ago, izabella said:

I wasn't clear on young Pam's love life.  She becomes pregnant and then marries her husband, father of her daughter.  Then she cozies up to AAA guy at the bar.  Next thing we see is her with AAA guy her daughter and another child, and AAA is asking her for money.  Who is her current husband?  Is he one of those two guys, or a different guy altogether?

AAA guy is Mark, her current husband. She left her high school boyfriend/father of Sarah for Mark.

[Violetgoblin6]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:48 AM, tennisgurl said:

I am really glad I decided to check this show out, its an absolutely wild ride. I was aware of this case but not the details, so seeing it all play out is absolutely fascinating, its nuts how much of this really did happen, like the Magic Mike rant. The utter incompetence of the cops, DA, and judge was so infuriating, I am so relieved to see Russ exonerated. I am really impressed that they manage to have so much tension in a case where a quick google can tell you exactly what is going to happen. Massive props to Renee, who I had previously been a bit meh on, she is doing an amazing job at making Pam so utterly loathsome that I truly want to reach through the screen and strangle her. 

Me too. It was kinda slow and I had trouble getting into it, but I'm now hooked and loving Renee's performance! I'm in awe of how horrible Pam is, I mean, I feel like I need a shower after watching. True evil and awful to everyone, so fake. Just the worst person. Scary to think how many people are hiding a true monster beneath a totally ordinary, everyday façade. 

Pam's soda habit (bizarre, Dr. Pepper with gobs of cherry syrup) is kind of gross to me. Fountain coke with cherry on occasion is really yummy, a childhood favorite. But the way Pam consumes them is crazy, no wonder she gained weight. 

 

19 hours ago, Annber03 said:

On that note, I meant to say last night that they did a good job on the casting for young Pam. You could see the resemblance to current day Pam.

Oh, absolutely! Same mannerisms too! 

[Cozytea]

2 hours ago, AHandMarvelfan said:

How close is the shows portrails of the size of Betsy and Pam compared to the real life women?

In this screenshot from episode 4 Betsy (Katy Mixon) looks bigger than Pam (Fat suit wearing Renee Zellweger)

Ofcourse Betsy thought Pam was her friend, so I guess Pam could have gotten very close to an unsuspecting Betsy and attacked her neck area.

This pic is from the cruise Betsy,Russ and family took after she found out the cancer had returned and was terminal. B&P size is similar. 

Obviously it dosen't matter as Pam is a psycho and probably completely shocked Betsy by the attack. It's more the way both Pam and the DA acted liked Pam was this delicate flower and couldn't possibly have over taken Betsy because Betsy was so much stronger than Pam.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Cozytea

[larapu2000]

53 minutes ago, Cozytea said:

This pic is from the cruise Betsy,Russ and family took after she found out the cancer had returned and was terminal. B&P size is similar. 

Obviously it dosen't matter as Pam is a psycho and probably completely shocked Betsy by the attack. It's more the way both Pam and the DA acted liked Pam was this delicate flower and couldn't possibly have over taken Betsy because Betsy was so much stronger than Pam.

I feel like others have pointed this out, but Betsy was also going through chemo (and was well into it).  My mom was super strong and then she started chemo and you could knock her over with a feather.  The fatigue and exhaustion are real.  Even if Betsy was Pam's superior when it came to strength, she wouldn't have been in the middle of chemo treatments.  But I could actually understand why Pam wouldn't be a suspect, even if she was the last person to see Betsy alive.  Because women usually don't murder people!

[JMarie99]

I loved the way young Pam slurped her gin and tonic at the bar the same way she now slurps her Big Gulp sodas. 

[Whimsy]

That reenactment of the story Pam was telling about Russ finding them playing softball in the basement ( what?  Lol) had me ROLLING. So over the top and crazy. I don’t understand why every single person she’s ever met didn’t realize she was a horrible liar. 

[Cozytea]

1 hour ago, Whimsy said:

That reenactment of the story Pam was telling about Russ finding them playing softball in the basement ( what?  Lol) had me ROLLING. So over the top and crazy. I don’t understand why every single person she’s ever met didn’t realize she was a horrible liar. 

Lol that was hilarious. And that chicken leg 😃.

[TV Diva Queen]

who played Pam's mom, the woman who got killed/fell off her balcony.  Google isn't helping me, or maybe I'm just not very good at it.  

[hatchetgirl]

On 3/29/2022 at 10:28 PM, Irlandesa said:

And the DA calling to have the evidence destroyed is so infuriating.  I only wish we could prosecute DAs.  She clearly did that to cover for her own incompetence.

This is such a huge no no.  I cannot believe she wasn't disbarred for that.  

[CrystalBlue]

 

2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

who played Pam's mom, the woman who got killed/fell off her balcony.  Google isn't helping me, or maybe I'm just not very good at it.  

Celia Weston.

Celia Weston - IMDb

Edited April 1, 2022 by CrystalBlue
Added link.

[JudyObscure]

I recognized Celia Weston from, "Far From Heaven" where she played  the town's nasty gossip, and, "In the Bedroom" where she played a sweet sensitive woman.  She's one of those underrated, character actresses who can do anything. 

[BeatrixK]

Damn, Zellwiger - Good job making me utterly loathe Pam!

 

[Cheyanne11]

Wow, I wasn't sure I was going to like this, but it's excellent!  Renee is hitting it out of the ballpark and Josh Duhamel is great, too.  I guess Judy Greer is doing a good job, because, boy, I cannot stand the DA. 

Definitely going to listen to the Dateline podcast.

[cardigirl]

The scene after they win the second trial, where Josh goes into his office and registers the utter relief that he won and was able to get Russ's conviction overturned, did me in.  I was so frustrated with all of the DA's shenanigans, as I'm sure he must have been. To see how much he was afraid he couldn't win this one for Russ, because of that crazy DA, and to finally get a sane judge and win, was everything.  Josh Duhemal was WONDERFUL in that scene.  

I usually don't enjoy true crime, but this one is keeping me interested. That Pam is a real piece of work.  

[hatchetgirl]

On 4/1/2022 at 7:46 PM, BeatrixK said:

Damn, Zellwiger - Good job making me utterly loathe Pam!

 

She is killing it in this part and she honestly looks like she's having a really fun time being evil!

[roughing it]

I think I read this series is 6 episodes - that can't be!  They can't possible tie this all up in two more episodes?!?

That being said, I knew nothing about this case until this show, and it is absolutely delicious!  I can't wait to see more.  And when it's over, I'm going to binge every news story and podcast regarding the case.  I've been holding out so far and it's killing me!

[Jillybean]

On 4/1/2022 at 7:12 PM, JudyObscure said:

I recognized Celia Weston from, "Far From Heaven" where she played  the town's nasty gossip, and, "In the Bedroom" where she played a sweet sensitive woman.  She's one of those underrated, character actresses who can do anything. 

Dating myself, but I remember Celia Weston from Alice! And I loved her in How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. She also had a VERY funny guest turn on an episode of Frasier.

[LadyintheLoop]

I was afraid for a minute that Pam was going to put her mother's diaper on her head.

[roughing it]

19 hours ago, Jillybean said:

And I loved her in How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days

BULLSHIT!!!

[pasdetrois]

On 4/1/2022 at 3:05 PM, TV Diva Queen said:

who played Pam's mom, the woman who got killed/fell off her balcony.  Google isn't helping me, or maybe I'm just not very good at it.  

Celia Weston. I'm a fan and would know her anywhere. If you saw the movie "Juno," she played the mother-in-law.

[peeayebee]

On 3/30/2022 at 12:34 PM, bigmag said:

I can't believe that you can issue instructions to destroy evidence with simply a phone call. How could the identity of the caller even be verified?  Anyone could call claiming to be the DA and order that.  Surely it would require a signed request in writing.

I was (am) really surprised by this scene. Isn't evidence kept forever? 

[Cinnabon]

On 4/5/2022 at 4:08 PM, Jillybean said:

Dating myself, but I remember Celia Weston from Alice! And I loved her in How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. She also had a VERY funny guest turn on an episode of Frasier.

Alice! That’s where I know her from. She has a very distinctive voice.

[Nordly Beaumont]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

Alice! That’s where I know her from. She has a very distinctive voice.

I remember her from Alice, but she'll always be Cam's mom (Modern Family) to me.

[J-Man]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:55 AM, Violetgoblin6 said:

Pam's soda habit (bizarre, Dr. Pepper with gobs of cherry syrup) is kind of gross to me. Fountain coke with cherry on occasion is really yummy, a childhood favorite. But the way Pam consumes them is crazy, no wonder she gained weight. 

The only time we've ever seen her actually fill the cup (in the first episode), it's with DIET Dr Pepper, so she's getting the excess avoirdupois from some other source. 

[AZChristian]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:34 AM, bigmag said:

I can't believe that you can issue instructions to destroy evidence with simply a phone call. How could the identity of the caller even be verified?  Anyone could call claiming to be the DA and order that.  Surely it would require a signed request in writing.

If I recall, her call was to the sheriff's office where she asked them to prepare an order to destroy the evidence.  She - or someone - would have to sign off on that order, creating a paper trail.

[A.Ham]

On 3/30/2022 at 12:26 PM, nora1992 said:

If Dateline hadn’t done the case, would Russ still be in jail?  His lawyer is great, but did all the attention prove more effective than skilled counsel?

I asked myself that same question--and thought Dateline did a better investigation that the original detectives.

Edited May 3, 2022 by A.Ham