S01.E09: Dangerously Close

[CrystalBlue]

If the real journalist was anything like Vivian, the person I feel sorry the most for is that baby.  Coming in second was Viv's husband, and Todd's wife.  And Val.  Caftan Lady was cool.

[CrystalBlue]

What happened to Rachel shouldn't have happened, but she should have made sure her bases were covered before she set out to a foreign country, let alone Morocco, with nothing but trust in someone else and a working credit card.  She also should have reported to her employer about the usage of the corporate card as soon as she set foot back on American soil instead of letting them find out about the charges in the Account Dept.

[Madding crowd]

She should have talked to her employer but Anna fooled a lot of people with her heiress act and if I met someone who lived in exclusive hotels, traveled in private jets, knew many wealthy people and was working on leading a very expensive building, I would probably believe she could afford to take me on a trip. I have had friends treat me for things before ( nothing like this) and it never occurred to me to try to find out if they could really afford it. How would you find that out anyway? I’m not sure how Anna made the reservations without a working card but apparently they were secured somehow. 

[Showthyme]

23 hours ago, Meow25 said:

 

Anna and all of her friends are just horrible people.I felt deeply only for Val ...but i came away from this series thinking that it was interesting to watch, but the only character I liked was Vivians husband, and the dickhead lawyer's wife.  

 

Val was a made up character. That is why we love him so. 
 

Anna wouldn’t be able to talk her way into an Uber rich hotel today. There are just so many instant payment options. 
 

Anyone else love how Anna asked Billy McFarland for a place to stay for a few nights and ended up staying for four months? Billy had to move to get rid of her. (Billy McFarland is the Fyre Festival fraudster).

Edited February 20, 2022 by Showthyme

[ichbin]

On 2/17/2022 at 12:51 AM, Melina22 said:

As for Rachel, the evidence was more nuanced, so I expect a difference of opinion on whether or not Anna stole from her. (I think she did.) 

 

I feel that way too. It appears she allowed Rachel to give her card knowing fully well that she did not have a substitute credit card coming or the funds to pay her back.  Rachel made it clear her offer was not for payment and only as a placeholder until Anna's was sorted out. Plus, Anna stayed on for additional time driving up the bill much higher than it was when Rachel left.  Then Anna continued promising repayment and only came through with $5K and more promises. Can only wonder where that materialized from. The fact that Rachel ultimately was not responsible for the hotel charges and was able to monetize her experience is entirely separate from that.  

 

[greeneyedscorpio]

On 2/19/2022 at 5:56 AM, SlovakPrincess said:

I did like the little view we got into how the concierges, drivers, and other service industry professionals formed connections and worked together, in both New York and Morocco.   I wish we had more of that!  

Overall, for all my complaining, I did enjoy the series.   But at the end of the day, I was disappointed because I don't feel like I actually learned anything new about how the super-rich operate (and manipulate each other), and how Anna was able to infiltrate that world.  How did she even end up on the New York party scene??  She had to start somewhere, but we just get kinda dropped into the middle of her long con.   

I promise I'm not looking for an instruction manual on how to run scams, LOL, but the series seemed to want to say something about social climbing amongst the super-rich and how, psychologically, they could manipulate and be manipulated, and then ... really didn't.  We didn't even get a scene showing Rachel and Anna meeting, which seems like a huge oversight.  

I also don't get how Anna could keep working with the architect and other folks she met through Nora after Nora realized Anna stole $400k from her -- like Nora wouldn't find a way (even if she was embarrassed) to warn all her connections and kill Anna's reputation in a heartbeat??

Yeah, my husband and I kept wondering where she got the hundred dollar bills she was giving out like candy when she was at the 12 George hotel.  Where and how did she begin conning people?  

 

[Marley]

40 minutes ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

Yeah, my husband and I kept wondering where she got the hundred dollar bills she was giving out like candy when she was at the 12 George hotel.  Where and how did she begin conning people?  

 

I think she got the hundreds when she got that $200K from the one bank. I’m assuming she pulled out a bunch of cash.

[Madding crowd]

I don’t understand how she was able to open a new bank account with a personal check and then immediately pull money out. Banks hold personal checks for days before you can take money out and they would have closed her account when there was no money.

[Angeleyes]

I think this final episode ruined the show for me. They’ve turned Anna into such an anti-hero. The reporters were cheering when Anna was found not guilty on some of the counts? WTF? It makes no sense. Anna is not some poor little girl failed by the system. Anna never had a legitimate business plan that went wrong. Scamming was her one and only plan. She wouldn’t have known what to do with that VIP club if it had come to fruition and I seriously doubt she ever had plans for it to actually happen. She had plenty of chances to take the money she had already been given and turn it into something legitimate. Instead, she kept blowing through it and scamming others as she went along. For the show to portray that she is someone we should like and cheer for was wrong in the end. I get that this was more entertainment than real, but now that a real life famous Anna has been set upon the world with a show that ultimately tried to rehab her image what havoc will she continue to wreak? We know she’s going to do this all again. 

[SlovakPrincess]

Yeah, I didn't really buy the other "Scriberia" reporters cheering for Anna beating some of the charges.  Their loyalty was to Vivian, and her continued series about Anna's story was going to be successful no matter the outcome of the trial.  The occasional "I like this girl!" comments (as they did Vivian's work for her and researched Anna's scams) were annoying enough, but they knew damn well she was probably guilty.  

The real low point for me was when Vivian was yelling at Todd the lawyer after the sentencing, in this awful self-righteous manner.  I would've drop kicked her into the ocean -- bitch, you talked my crazy client out of the plea deal!  

[blixie]

Quote

But having seen a clip of the real Anna, it doesn't sound like her.

I agree but the clip I saw was only after she had gone to prison/got out so I'm not sure the accent she employed at the time wasn't this weird one Julia is putting on, she would have benefitted immensely from amping it up and sounding really Euro rich with all the people she was trying to schmooze.

[Bobcatkitten]

On 2/12/2022 at 8:34 AM, Pj3422 said:

Ok, I devoured the entire series — and enjoyed it. (I mean, the clothes alone…!) But  I still don’t get how seemingly rational people threw their lot in with Anna, who was so completely selfish and unpleasant. A journalist buying her clothes to wear to court? A lawyer missing out on his first family vacation in two years? I guess it’s the same thing I just don’t get about cult followers. How messed up does your life have to be to think this person is the answer? 

So much this!!!! Why are Vivian and Todd rooting for her in any way? She is a terrible terrible person. And they are turning their lives upside down to help her? Even Neff I didn't really get other than at least they had a friendship. 

[Marley]

Yea if that’s how the real Todd acted he should be embarrassed. I guess I was supposed to be all into the yelling scene in the court jail where she fires him thinking oh no you gotta be there for her but it just made me mad and think what an idiot Todd was. I would’ve said sayonara you ungrateful bitch. She hadn’t even paid him at that point.

Todd and Vivian even had little comments about Anna not getting put in jail and maybe her going to dinner with them. Like what? Are you two mentally ok? So stupid.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Marley

[SlovakPrincess]

Todd at least had an ethical obligation to keep helping Anna.  His only other option was to ask the judge to postpone the trial and allow him to withdraw, which the judge might have rejected anyway (this can actually happen close to trial, even if your client refuses to pay you). 

Vivian was just being ridiculous.

[DB in CMH]

A mildly entertaining series that completely shit the bed in the last episode.  When the scriberia journalist set cheering for Anna, I wanted to throw my computer out the window. What a complete load of horseshit.

Which is a shame, because an episode 8, they seem to be making a really interesting point that Anna was a sociopath who didn't care about anybody but herself. But that all went out the window with the last episode. 

Two things can be simultaneously true: the rich get away with murder, and Anna is a sociopath who nobody should feel sympathetic towards. 

II like seeing the sprinkling of Scandal peeps, though. At least Shonda is loyal.

[yourmomiseasy]

On 2/16/2022 at 9:32 PM, hiisa said:

Now I need to find some less biased and waaaaaay more objective docs on this psycho. 

 

How about something actually written by Anna?  It's biased AF, but I actually had a hard time making it through the entire essay because I wanted to punch her so badly. https://www.insider.com/anna-delvey-writes-about-inventing-anna-and-life-in-jail-2022-2

[hiisa]

1 hour ago, yourmomiseasy said:

badly. https://www.insider.com/anna-delvey-writes-about-inventing-anna-and-life-in-jail-2022-2

Oh my gosh Anna please never write a book. Or ghost write it.

She is SO WHINEY. Blah blah blah I didnt even do anything! Blah blah blah Im the only woman in the WHOLE PRISON guys! 

Even now shes still not owning up to what she did. She'll say in one sentence that shes being judged forever for what she did in her early 20s and immediately follow that up with she didn't really even do anything. Yuck. Shes just so yuck. 

[Lois Sandborne]

I should've paid more attention to the credits. If I'd realized that Anna was a producer I never would've wasted my time watching this mess.

[MaggieG]

Count me in with hating this last episode. I didn't really mind the show as we were watching but this last episode completely turned me off with how they were trying to turn Anna into the victim and Rachel into the bad guy. I ranted to my husband for about 10 minutes after we finished. 

If Kacy was done with Anna why did she even show up in court? If you say you're done, be done. I was also confused why Scriberia was rooting for the Not Guilty verdicts. 

I hated what they did to Rachel in the end. Yes, she was a hanger on that most likely only hung out with Anna because she know Anna would pay for stuff. I highly doubt she would have gone to Morocco if she had to pay her own way. And yes, she made money of her book. She should not have been crucified for that. She was in her mid 20's, living in an expensive city. Something drastic happened to her and she was offered money to write about it. A lot of people in her position would have said yes. I wish she would have stopped crying and told the lawyer that Anna was the one on trial, not her. 

Also fuck Todd. I don't understand how he went so far for Anna after she screamed at him, insulted his accent, called him an ape and all the horrible things she said in her rant. I mean yes, he was still her lawyer but my goodness. 

I actively hated Neff at the end. Did her stylist friend ever get paid? Probably not. I just don't understand Neff's blind loyalty to Anna, even after all the details about her fraud came out. Was it just because she got tipped in $100s?

I also hated Vivian in the end. The way she lamented the fact that Anna has he young life stolen from her. She broke the law!! And to this day doesn't think she did anything wrong. Plus Vivian was a lot during this whole thing. Like girl, tone it down.

I'm not sure what Shonda was trying to tell us with this show. That Anna was somehow the ultimate victim because women get punished but men fail upward all the time? Neff and Kacy were somehow the noble ones but Rachel was the bad guy? It almost seemed like the show had a vendetta against Rachel. And I'm not even saying this as some Rachel stan. I have no interest in reading her book. 

I loved the prison guard that had different colored eye shadows every time we saw her. 

[blixie]

Quote

Why are Vivian and Todd rooting for her in any way? 

I thought it was straight up projection at least with Todd how many  times did he sling his wife's class in her face? He saw himself in Anna, as did Neff, they saw their own American Hustle dreams and her using the wealthy sets love of generational ease and acceptance against them as a fast pass, felt great by proxy.

Vivian makes a lot less sense even though she claims it's down to having made her a heat score, but the DA was already on Anna's case, and Anna wanted the fame/attention. I personally think she's just a mediocre journalist who is easily taken in my by her subjects and seems to not be able to maintain objectivity and distance.

I wish the show had been  half as long and had any central thesis other than this overly simple dichotomy where Anna is a ballsy heroine of the American dream, or merely a narcissistic asshole who'd rather lie for the rest of time then ever tell the truth or be accountable. And Rachel can still be a legitimate victim, but also a wholly unsympathetic one. I wish it has executed the both/and stuff better.

[Andyourlittledog2]

This whole 'poor little girl, punishing her is so unfair, men don't get punished for their stuff!' mantra really pisses me off. At the exact time Anna was pursuing her long con there was a man in the west and south who was doing the same thing and when he was caught no one said poor little guy, etc. He got eighteen years.  He pretended to be a fake prince to defraud high end hotels and restaurants and lure in investors to phony schemes and they actually gave him money so he was better at it than Anna was. He pretended to be a fake Saudi prince and have diplomatic immunity, which is what really pissed off the feds and got him some serious time. But nevertheless Anna's cheering squad was ridiculous, thinking she should just be patted on the head and told to go on her way and try not to steal things, dear. 

Vivian was truly a terrible journalist.  I wonder if that's why they used a pseudonym for her 'character'.  The journalist had no problem putting her name on the series but balked at being shown to be the crappy journalist she really was.

[Caseysgirl]

Was this screenplay written by the actual journalist because it really made her look like a total fool and an unpleasant one to boot.  Lesson #1 in journalism school has to be boundaries!  She was taken in just as everyone else was.Also, did her lawyer ever get paid for representing her because the billable hours must have been off the charts.

 

[CrystalBlue]

11 hours ago, MaggieG said:

Count me in with hating this last episode. I didn't really mind the show as we were watching but this last episode completely turned me off with how they were trying to turn Anna into the victim and Rachel into the bad guy. I ranted to my husband for about 10 minutes after we finished. 

If Kacy was done with Anna why did she even show up in court? If you say you're done, be done. I was also confused why Scriberia was rooting for the Not Guilty verdicts. 

I hated what they did to Rachel in the end. Yes, she was a hanger on that most likely only hung out with Anna because she know Anna would pay for stuff. I highly doubt she would have gone to Morocco if she had to pay her own way. And yes, she made money of her book. She should not have been crucified for that. She was in her mid 20's, living in an expensive city. Something drastic happened to her and she was offered money to write about it. A lot of people in her position would have said yes. I wish she would have stopped crying and told the lawyer that Anna was the one on trial, not her. 

Also fuck Todd. I don't understand how he went so far for Anna after she screamed at him, insulted his accent, called him an ape and all the horrible things she said in her rant. I mean yes, he was still her lawyer but my goodness. 

I actively hated Neff at the end. Did her stylist friend ever get paid? Probably not. I just don't understand Neff's blind loyalty to Anna, even after all the details about her fraud came out. Was it just because she got tipped in $100s?

I also hated Vivian in the end. The way she lamented the fact that Anna has he young life stolen from her. She broke the law!! And to this day doesn't think she did anything wrong. Plus Vivian was a lot during this whole thing. Like girl, tone it down.

I'm not sure what Shonda was trying to tell us with this show. That Anna was somehow the ultimate victim because women get punished but men fail upward all the time? Neff and Kacy were somehow the noble ones but Rachel was the bad guy? It almost seemed like the show had a vendetta against Rachel. And I'm not even saying this as some Rachel stan. I have no interest in reading her book. 

I loved the prison guard that had different colored eye shadows every time we saw her. 

Loved her too, she stole the show!  She was credited as "Glitter Shadow Officer."

Cosmopolitan UK Article About Netflix Inventing Anna Prison Officer

[FozzyBear]

On 2/21/2022 at 9:47 PM, yourmomiseasy said:

How about something actually written by Anna?  It's biased AF, but I actually had a hard time making it through the entire essay because I wanted to punch her so badly. https://www.insider.com/anna-delvey-writes-about-inventing-anna-and-life-in-jail-2022-2

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

oh my god. That was terrible. It’s near incoherent at times. I’m even more confused about how she got away with so much if she really is this combination of bitchy and dumb.  She truly is an awful person.

[jrlr]

This monolithic mess should have been four episodes at the most, and I'd still be pissed off at how awful it was.  The writing was terrible - the structure, the characters and the direction are all sub-par.  And everytime the Vivian character was on screen, I wanted to scream "cut," and tell the actress to stop mugging, grimacing, whining and behaving like an amateur writer wannabe instead of a seasoned pro.   That was one of the worst performances I've ever seen from an actual professional.  There's an old show business edict: if it's not on the page, it's not on the stage.  Apparently, there was no page to work from.  Colossal, irritating waste of time.    

[ZeeEnnui]

Fuck all the way off, Neff. JFC. Blind loyalty with no return and willfully stupid. I couldn't with her judgmental b.s.

Shut it with your exaggerated facial contortions, Vivian. WTH? If I were the journalist that Vivian was based on, I would sue the writers for dramatic defamation. But, I guess she's a producer and is okay with being portrayed as obsessive, lacking in objectivity, pawning her work off on the ALL STARS in Scriberia and just generally sucking at her job. I guess she believes all publicity is good publicity. I hope Netflix paid her well for that (but I've heard they don't pay that well so...)

Rachel is flawed but she's still a freaking victim. Did she make mistakes? Sure. Was she kind of irritating and reminded me of this really annoying girl I knew in Junior High? Yes, totally. But you know what? She didn't deserve what happened to her. I read Rachel's Vanity Fair piece where she talked about suggesting vacations that she could afford but Anna insisted on Morocco and that she would pay for everything. Now, when there was an issue with the plane ticket that would have been a red flag for me, but I can see how someone like Rachel who has watched Anna make it rain all over town would think that everything was going to be okay. Of course, she put down that card. The threat of Moroccan prison would have had all of us reaching for our wallets. She was still SCAMMED. Rachel should definitely have come clean to her work immediately but she like so many on this show apparently fell under Anna's spell (I don't personally get the appeal). Rachel got Anna busted, and made some money off of it. I can't be mad at it. I'm sorry, I think most of us would have turned a scammer like Anna in, and I'm not sure why this show thinks we should feel badly about it. Don't do the crimes, if you can't do the time, Anna. 

It's hilarious that everyone was falling over themselves over dresses from the H&M sale rack. 

Todd's wife and Vivian's husband should go on vacation together, and bitch about Anna over beachside margaritas. 

I believe Netflix paid Anna around $300k for the rights to her story. Most went to paying off her victims but I think she still got some money. I don't think she should be able to profit at all. No sympathy for sociopaths with bizarro accents. 

[CrystalBlue]

23 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Fuck all the way off, Neff. JFC. Blind loyalty with no return and willfully stupid. I couldn't with her judgmental b.s.

Shut it with your exaggerated facial contortions, Vivian. WTH? If I were the journalist that Vivian was based on, I would sue the writers for dramatic defamation. But, I guess she's a producer and is okay with being portrayed as obsessive, lacking in objectivity, pawning her work off on the ALL STARS in Scriberia and just generally sucking at her job. I guess she believes all publicity is good publicity. I hope Netflix paid her well for that (but I've heard they don't pay that well so...)

Rachel is flawed but she's still a freaking victim. Did she make mistakes? Sure. Was she kind of irritating and reminded me of this really annoying girl I knew in Junior High? Yes, totally. But you know what? She didn't deserve what happened to her. I read Rachel's Vanity Fair piece where she talked about suggesting vacations that she could afford but Anna insisted on Morocco and that she would pay for everything. Now, when there was an issue with the plane ticket that would have been a red flag for me, but I can see how someone like Rachel who has watched Anna make it rain all over town would think that everything was going to be okay. Of course, she put down that card. The threat of Moroccan prison would have had all of us reaching for our wallets. She was still SCAMMED. Rachel should definitely have come clean to her work immediately but she like so many on this show apparently fell under Anna's spell (I don't personally get the appeal). Rachel got Anna busted, and made some money off of it. I can't be mad at it. I'm sorry, I think most of us would have turned a scammer like Anna in, and I'm not sure why this show thinks we should feel badly about it. Don't do the crimes, if you can't do the time, Anna. 

It's hilarious that everyone was falling over themselves over dresses from the H&M sale rack. 

Todd's wife and Vivian's husband should go on vacation together, and bitch about Anna over beachside margaritas. 

I believe Netflix paid Anna around $300k for the rights to her story. Most went to paying off her victims but I think she still got some money. I don't think she should be able to profit at all. No sympathy for sociopaths with bizarro accents. 

Rachel did the world a favor by getting Anna to come out of her luxury rehab suite so she could be arrested.  She saved further people from being swindled and victimized, however naive or savvy they may be.  I hope real Anna gets deported to Germany where they'll have to deal with their psychopath themselves.  Hopefully enough notoriety will precede her and her bad reputation in the future.

Edited February 25, 2022 by CrystalBlue
Corrected spelling.

[gesundheit]

Yikes. The wrap-up of this series was truly awful. I thought episodes 2-7 had some good stuff in there, some fun stuff at least. But wow.

On 2/14/2022 at 9:25 PM, peridot said:

Vivian was an idiot to get so sucked in by a con artist - knowing in detail the shit she pulled.  I was on her husband's side in this.

I enjoyed Todd's candor with Anna, but ducking out on your family vacation is crazy.  So what the girl alienated all the people in her life who loved her, she didn't need some random guy acting as her father.  I really hated that he called her a kid too.  She wasn't a teenager.

That was really exhausting. Everyone kept talking like she was some poor little girl getting kicked around by a system stacked against her. She was a pretty (enough) adult white woman who came from, by the way, a middle class family, for crap's sake -- it wasn't even some "but consider the cruelty of the class divide!" argument. 

On 2/14/2022 at 11:49 PM, BusyOctober said:

I had seen several shows about Anna before this, and I was aware of her fraud case.  This show admittedly made some shit up to make a better story, so I don’t know how many of the details are real or fake.  I just know I hated almost everyone by the end of the final episode.  Jack, Todd’s wife and the judge were the only 3 characters I liked at the very end.  

I was loving the sage residents of “Scriberia” until they were all rooting for Anna to be found not guilty.  WTF?  They worked on the story with Vivian, and knew what a sociopath Anna was.

 Vivian was horrible. If I were the real New Yorker writer, I’d be embarrassed by my portrayal in this shit show. She was shown as a selfish spouse, and bad mother (although I personally think those labels are sexist and misogynistic because historically men are lauded for their dedication to work over family).  She was shown as a lazy writer who lacked respect for deadlines and without professional objectivity.  And why didn’t Netflix use her real name?  Jessica got mentioned in the credits and in the epilogue notes, so everyone knows her real name.  All the other characters in Anna’s orbit had their real names used.

Rachel may have been opportunistic and she got swept up in the jet set lifestyle Anna was pretending to share with her ‘friends’.  I can understand how a 20-something woman (or man) could get sucked in to lavish parties, trips, clothes, spas days, etc. However, there is no way Rachel was more corrupt than Anna!!  And for Neff and Kacy to take the moral high ground over Rachel was a bridge too far for me.  Kacy and Neff witnessed Anna’s fraud and manipulations firsthand!  As for Neff, for someone who was living modestly and complaining about struggling to make rent and pay bills, she all the sudden had some amazing designer clothes for the trial.  Did her stylist friend offer her outfits too?  I don’t think she could afford the $1200 per diem fee Anna was being charged.

Anna should have done more time, but white collar crime is not taken seriously. She will continue to con people for the rest of her life.  Just like Martin Shkreli and Billy McFarland…they are all missing the gene for compassion, they have no conscience and only think of satisfying their own warped sense of self.
 

Agreed on all the above. If somebody insists on buying me an extravagant vacation and I say yes, and then I get stuck with the bill under duress, I'm not the asshole. Is it wiser not to participate in such things if it's out of your reach if something goes wrong? Of course. But being unwise and excited about a gift someone you think has unlimited funds has provided you does not make one a monster. 

They didn't use Jessica's name because the character was "inspired by" her, not based on her. Thank goodness. I've read a few fact vs fiction things on the series and most of the most infuriating things about Vivian were out of whole cloth. (She didn't trespass in any German homes or have battles for the story with her editors or work furiously up until childbirth or bail on a newborn or even cover the trial at all, for starters.) My real question is why they thought this horrible fictional journalist was a good "way in."

On 2/15/2022 at 3:51 AM, Schweedie said:

It really bothered me, because I think the show failed in making us see WHY she was roped in. Anna was nothing but unpleasant to her. Why did she care? She had the whole story (as did the rest of Scriberia), what on Earth made her believe or even want to believe that Anna was anything but a sociopath and a con artist? Like you say, wanting to get that first article done made sense to me, but the way she acted in this episode? Nope. This was *after* she figured out that Anna lied to get herself into rehab.

Neff frustrated me so much. After all that, you still maintain that Anna didn't do anything wrong? It's one thing to stand by your friend despite their wrongdoings, but you can't just keep pretending she isn't guilty when there's a mountain of proof. You can't maintain that her dad just temporarily cut her off and that it would've worked itself out when you now have proof that there was no money there. And you don't have to like Rachel to accept the fact that she actually was a victim in this.

I couldn't tell if the show wanted to portray Rachel as a villain or if it wanted us to see how Anna managed to twist it into her being the villain, but no matter how shallow or opportunistic she was, she was *not* the villain here. It didn't make sense to me that Kacy would take the moral high ground over Rachel like that after everything, either, and I'm gonna chalk that up to a failing of the show.

This is just it. I can see the argument that we weren't necessarily being told Anna was some anti-hero and Rachel was the worst, for instance, but we were being told a crap-ton of sympathetically-written characters thought exactly that, and at no point were we shown why. We really only ever saw reasons for all of those people to root against her, and nobody gave a good reason why they thought she should be acquitted.

On 2/17/2022 at 8:12 PM, Madding crowd said:

 I keep reading here that Rachel could have just left the hotel without anyone paying and that was never an option. They were told if someone did not produce a working credit card they would be arrested and no one wants to be in a Moroccan jail. They only let her leave when she gave them the card. i see nothing wrong with someone who is a victim writing about their experiences and making money off of it, tons of people do it. And she could have been arrested by her company for fraud if she could not repay the credit card.  It was eventually forgiven by American Express but only after it was reported to the police but she could have still lost her job. 

Yeah, I feel like the show made it perfectly clear how there was actually no way out of that situation for Rachel. And to suggest that the fact she ended up fine and even profiting off it somehow mitigates the damage done is missing the point that she only ended up fine and even profiting off it because she claimed the damage done.

For a while during the series I was really appreciating what a good job they did showing Anna play the "they wouldn't do this if I were a man" card which, of course, undermines women the world over who have legitimate claims on that front. But of course by the end somehow all the "good guys" on the show seemed to agree, despite zero evidence to support it. 

I'm just not sure what this show had to say at all. There's every reason to watch a good, fun con woman series, which I imagine is why most people tuned in. But there seemed to be a preoccupation with a message, swallowing up all the fun of it, and the message landed with an ambiguous thud. 

[marny]

Unpopular opinion: I didn’t hate Anna at all. Was she a grifter? Sure, but looking at who she grifted, I’m fine with it. Who was actually harmed? The banks where she passed bad checks? They’ve been screwing their customers for decades and they have insurance to cover the money she defrauded out of them. The banks who were going to loan her millions of dollars? They were falling all over themselves to be in the Anna Delvey business. They had dollar signs in their eyes just as much as she did. And ultimately, they didn’t give her the loans so… no harm, no foul. And the extra $200k line of credit they gave her to “apologize” or whatever? That’s how desperate they were to have her as a client. Despite their due diligence showing she wasn’t a good loan risk, they ignored the information they had and threw money at her anyway because they couldn’t risk offending someone who may actually be rich. Alan? He ignored all the warning signs of not getting paid and not seeing real proof of funds because he couldn’t miss out on the chance of those big origination fees. He was willing to risk some money if it meant making even more money. Just like Anna, money drove everything. The hotels saw designer bags and fancy clothes and jumped to give her a room and 4-star service without even running a credit card. Why? Can’t risk offending a possible rich person who could make them even more money by sending all her rich friends their way. Rachel? She hadn’t reached for her wallet in 2 years. Why didn’t she know what that YSL tour costs? Because she didn’t expect to have to pay for it so who cares? “Oh the 4 course meal won’t be enough, we should do the 6”, “oh we probably each need our own suite”. She sure got comfortable spending someone else’s money. And while the whole credit card fiasco was terrible, she cried those crocodile tears on the stand about how she could never trust anyone again, blah blah. How about stop expecting people to pay your way and only do things you can afford to do? Maybe that’s the lesson. Plus, her Amex bill got wiped clean and she made 6 figures from the ordeal. She’ll be fine. 
 

As for Neff, she respected the hustle. She saw a woman who had found her way to fame and fortune by simply acting as if. Neff made very clear that she didn’t respect people like Rachel who just had things handed to them— she respected people who worked for it and she saw Anna’s efforts as work. Even though their relationship began as Neff wanting to collect big tips from the rich customer, Anna formed a true friendship with her since Neff was the one person who proved she wasn’t only using Anna for her money. When that creepy bank guy was pressuring Anna to go upstairs, Neff stepped in to save her. Not for the money, but because she saw a fellow woman who needed a hand. And while she got temporarily enamored with the glitz and glamour, she also expressed discomfort in taking advantage of Anna’s generosity. Because she respects people who work for stuff. 
 

The only character I can’t defend is Vivian. Is Anna interesting? Sure. Is it your job to dig deeper? Absolutely. Is it ok to even like her and want her to come out of this ok? Sure. But you’re supposed to be a professional and you were so far over the line that the line was a dot to you. Todd was just doing his job and his wife was crazy for scheduling a vacation during his trial. I used to be a criminal defense attorney and I would never have dipped out on a client like she wanted him to. 

[ahpny]

On 2/14/2022 at 4:33 AM, SparedTurkey said:

I didn't think Rachel was the villian - she didn't steal the money. But if she did sell her story before the trial, that is just dumb. Of course it would be slanted, of course she would look petty. She isn't and if people are willing to buy it fine. But sell it after the trial moron. I don't get why she lied about being part of the arrest - if Kacy was pissed about the flat out lie to her face I'd get that. Kacy was just too rah-rah universe for me. Especially when she was so big about Anna boundaries at the start.

Rachel may not have been entirely "innocent" or likeable given her fame-whoring about, Instagram/Kardashian obsessions, and willingness to accept apparent largesse, but her most significant flaw is stupidity, or maybe just gullibility. And - at least in the Netflix version of reality - she blew her cross examination with multiple, unforced errors. None of the questions thrown at her should have been a surprise, and in a real court room scene, she would have been prepared to answer them in a way that would have minimized the impact on her successful direct examination (Rachel made the jurors cry!, as even Anna recognizes in frustration). Her direct should have preemptively defused at least some of this. Moreover, in her cross examination, when asked "didn't you accept all this crap gratis form Anna," she should immediately and sternly said "no." If asked to explain that, she could have followed up by noting that Anna never paid for essentially any of it, and as as Rachel now knows, Anna never had any intention (or ability) to pay for any it. So - none of it was that was "given" by Anna at all - since it was never Anna's to give.  If you walk into Tiffany's and steal a bracelet, and then "give" that bracelet to another, that other owes no gratitude to the thief. And as any first year law student learns, you cannot get good title from a thief.

The part that bugged me most, however, is that, whatever many flaws and moral blindness Anna has, she's clearly a very bright young woman who has the "Hannibal Lector-like" ability (as the writer noted) to see through and size up people in a manner few others have. That type of talent can legitimately earn lots of money (and maybe even fame). Yes, it's more work to earn it legitimately, so I suppose another of Anna's flaws is she's lazy and didn't want to work too hard.

Edited February 25, 2022 by ahpny

[CeeBeeGee]

I want to respond to some of these posts but I was so full of rage from watching the finale that I just have to dump my real-time notes:

Neff SHUT THE EVERLOVING F*** UP

I would slap the SHIT--I mean the everloving SHIT--out of a bitch who called me Becky and Karen for wanting to get my $57,000 back. And we damn well know had Neff not gotten paid back, she'd be singing a different tune. Bish, you were in thrall to those Benjies just like everybody else.  Her portrayal (which is different from Pressley's article, I loved Neff in that) is so over-the-top shitty, it's manipulative. F*** YOU NETFLIX NEFF.

I have seen the pictures of that first court outfit--the black tanktop was super low-cut and honestly looked really trashy. Lots of cleavage. And chokers had their day back in, say, 2000 but even back then they looked really cheap. Was there really an IG (or whatever form of social media) for Anna's outfits in court? Because what I've seen her wear looked really distasteful, unlike her pre-prison social media.

Go to effing TOWN on that shitty grifter, Todd! His shutting her down was wonderful. And I did not feel sorry for her for one second. I'm glad her dad ghosted her. She's a grifter.

But you ARE a lazy millennial looking for fame and fortune, Anna. Rachel wants to work. You don't have a job. You're just a grifter.

But you ARE a fraud, Anna. You're nothing but a fraud who robbed your friend.

Oh God, this whole "Todd showing up Rachel on the stand" bullshit is such bullshit. God, I hate defense attorneys. I get that they have a job to do but they're always so campily theatrical. With the interruptions and the nonsense. Okay, now I hate you. Rachel's claim was deemed not worthy by the jury--I don't care if Amex later wrote most of it off, she still suffered through an incredible amount of stress and almost certainly suffered a huge drop in her credit score (which may well have hindered her loan application for a car or a mortgage). Those kinds of impacts on real life matter. F*** Anna.

Oh STF UP Todd. YES, Rachel sold the story. WTH else could she do? She was going to lose her job? Anna the Grifter could certainly appreciate someone making capitalist lemonade out of lemons.

Oh and F*** OFF, Kacy, with your vague, dim positivities. You got off easy. All you suffered was a stomach ache. I'm happy Rachel set up Anna. Because f*** Anna. She's a grifter who owed Rachel $57K. The pearl clutching "Omagerrrrrrd you set up, Anna???" Good for you, Rachel. I'm glad you f***ed her over, like she did to you. 

I'm just skipping past some of this because I honestly despise so many of these characters. This isn't fun. These are real people, who were legitimately hurt by Anna's shitty actions.

Vivien cheering Todd on at the bar--BOOOOLSHEEEEEEEET.

"There are plenty of good reasons why she has no one--" YUPPPPP.

Anna's stammering, overly dramatic monologue in the jail cell after the verdict--STUPID. Much like Todd's tearing away from his wife to go back to look in on the grifter. The forced gravitas for Anna is grating. She was a grifter. Not a frustrated girlboss with a vision. She wanted to live the good life. Tout fini.

That last confrontation between Todd and Vivian was completely contrived. Anna ended up serving only four years. No one forced her to commit crime and it's certainly not Vivian's fault--if anything, the media attention helped Anna. Vivian just did her job, well. And Todd's phone probably isn't ringing off the hook since Anna was mostly convicted. I'm just watching actors yell at each other under the Brooklyn Bridge for no good reason.

[Beachdreamer]

I just can't understand all of the hate directed at Rachel.  And I really can't get on board with the retroactive hate.  In the glorious days of champagne and oysters and Le Coucou Neff and Rachel and the trainer are all enjoying the perks of a very wealthy friend.  If Rachel is a selfish grifter at this point, so are the others.  But remember, Anna is a willing participant in this relationship structure.

I have no problem with Rachel going to Morocco at Anna's expense.  It is clear from the story, as well as common sense given Rachel's financial position, that both parties have agreed upon Anna paying for this.  If Rachel is a selfish grifter at this point, the trainer is, too.  But remember, Anna is a willing participant in this relationship structure. 

Once they are in Morocco, Rachel is essentially in a hostage situation.  It may be an elegant one, but it was one.  She was in a foreign country, she was frightened, and she was tricked by someone she had every reason to believe. 

She came home 62 thousand dollars in debt!  Can you imagine the stress?  And given the use of the work credit card, she was likely to lose her job and be unable to pay this debt.  We saw the worry and concern Neff felt when she paid for one meal unexpectedly.  And Neff was repaid.

Rachel was left to drown in debt.  Do we hate here right now?  While she is at her lowest point?  While she has clearly been tricked?  She gave Anna plenty of time to rectify the situation, had Anna actually been able and willing to do so.  It didn't happen. 

At some point Rachel decides to stop being Anna's friend.  Seriously, do we blame her?  Or Is this the point at which we hate her? 

Rachel ends up writing her story and making money.  Is this why she is hated?  Because she made money from her misfortune?  Who is this an affront to?  To the viewers?  Why?  To Anna?  Has Anna not lost any rights to consideration at this point?

Had Rachel stayed in debt, and was today a woman working 3 jobs to crawl out from under her situation, would she be a victim or an object of hate and disdain?

When Anna is arrested and goes to jail and Neff and the trainer are still seeing her as some sort of friend, is it because neither of them were $62K in debt?  Based on Neff's one meal and the other woman's unwillingness to allow Anna to move in, I think we can assume they'd feel pretty differently if they had been. 

So how and where in all of this doe RACHEL become the bad guy, and if she is a bad guy in anyone's eyes, I would respectfully suggest that Neff and the trainer be held to the same standard. 

 

[Sheenieb]

5 hours ago, marny said:

Unpopular opinion: I didn’t hate Anna at all. Was she a grifter? Sure, but looking at who she grifted, I’m fine with it. Who was actually harmed? The banks where she passed bad checks? They’ve been screwing their customers for decades and they have insurance to cover the money she defrauded out of them. The banks who were going to loan her millions of dollars? They were falling all over themselves to be in the Anna Delvey business. They had dollar signs in their eyes just as much as she did. And ultimately, they didn’t give her the loans so… no harm, no foul.

It would be one thing if Anna were defrauding banks as some "stick it to the 1%" gesture, but she just wanted to live the high life. She had no Robin Hood aspirations. She didn't put that $200K she received towards her rich people clubhouse, she blew it on clothes, expensive dinners, and hotel stays. She didn't get the loans because she didn't pass due diligence and the background check. Everyone was greedy and foolish. Her confidence must've been off the charts because it will never make sense to me how bankers who put you through the wringer to get a loan would just go off on this humorless Chucky doll's word. 

6 hours ago, marny said:

As for Neff, she respected the hustle. She saw a woman who had found her way to fame and fortune by simply acting as if. Neff made very clear that she didn’t respect people like Rachel who just had things handed to them— she respected people who worked for it and she saw Anna’s efforts as work. Even though their relationship began as Neff wanting to collect big tips from the rich customer, Anna formed a true friendship with her since Neff was the one person who proved she wasn’t only using Anna for her money. When that creepy bank guy was pressuring Anna to go upstairs, Neff stepped in to save her. Not for the money, but because she saw a fellow woman who needed a hand. And while she got temporarily enamored with the glitz and glamour, she also expressed discomfort in taking advantage of Anna’s generosity. Because she respects people who work for stuff. 

Neff can have several seats as well. Given how she was portrayed on the show, she wasn't conflicted about hanging out with Anna, either. Her own boyfriend had to check her about being all talk about her film but no action. Where was her hustle? It's easy to be all pro-Anna since she was the only one who was lucky enough to be paid back. Paid back with stolen funds, btw. 

I also hated how the series ended. Todd calling this grown ass woman "a kid" and Vivian's silly ass going on about Anna having her "life stolen from her." Like she accidentally committed fraud because she didn't understand what she was signing and not because she had a plan to fleece people. Sure, Alan, the banks, and Nora are all OK. They suffered embarrassment, and no one is checking their couch cushions for loose change, but I'm not going to prop Anna up like she's Jesse James. 

The show can also miss me with making Rachel the villain. Yeah, she was annoying and enjoyed living high on the hog, but making her out to be the asshole just because she sold her story and AMEX ate the charges is some bullshit. Kacy bugged me with her toxic positivity and never taking a stand. It's too bad the videographer wasn't called to testify because he could've cut through the fog of bullshit about Morocco and really drive home how scary as fuck it was. 

[sadie]

What did I just watch? When Vivian said Anna‘s life had been stolen from her thought I would break my television. It would’ve been one thing if Anna was living within her means and trying to secure this money to do something truly legitimate, but she wasn’t, she was using the money to fund a ridiculous lifestyle and pretend to be an heiress. What is so admirable about that? that Vivian saw her as some victims will go down as the most baffling plot line ever. If Anna had stolen $60,000 from Vivian would she have been so quick to see her as some wrong young girl just trying to make it in the big bad city. Add on top of it that they showed Anna is probably the most unlikable, hateful, manipulative human ever. When Anna told the story about being at some fabulous party and thinking it was the most wonderful thing ever until an “unattractive” person walked into the party and then she had to go find something better, pretty much summed up the awfulness that is Anna. 

[dovegrey]

On 2/19/2022 at 7:56 AM, SlovakPrincess said:

I also don't get how Anna could keep working with the architect and other folks she met through Nora after Nora realized Anna stole $400k from her -- like Nora wouldn't find a way (even if she was embarrassed) to warn all her connections and kill Anna's reputation in a heartbeat??

I don't doubt this part at all, to be honest. I once worked with a narcissistic mid-career colleague who had been through no less than eight employers in about fifteen years, taking significant pay cuts with each job hop. After they were caught in an embezzlement scheme at my company, among many other improper things too specific to mention, they were very quietly terminated. The company refused to blacklist them. Refused to press charges. Refused to talk about it. Refused to give a bad reference. It was far easier to pretend it had never happened, save face, and be glad this colleague was someone else's problem, apparently. Turns out they'd done the same sort of things at the other companies, and none of those companies had ever blacklisted the colleague either. The colleague also leaned on their network of loose professional connections (especially ones who were still being charmed and refused to believe the truth), to find new jobs. It definitely happens, and so I had no problem with Nora.

As a more general comment, being part of that disaster and getting drawn into that con is why this series and Anna's story is interesting to me. I've seen it. I've experienced the cold, eye-opening moment, where all the little things finally added up together into crystal clarity, and I decided to stop being a mark. I bought Rachel's explanation that Anna's long-game grift was a very traumatic experience that made it hard to trust others, and I absolutely don't blame her for capitalizing on it; those two things aren't mutually exclusive, not when someone has lovebombed you, screwed you, blamed you, gaslit you, and ridiculed you for it.

Overall, people tend to find it very hard to say "no" and are generally quite susceptible to believing what they're told versus what they see/experience (see also the book The Gift of Fear, for those wondering what the little "tells" are that give away con artists). That's the part of the series that I enjoyed watching the most. With all that said, this episode made no fucking sense, and I agree with everyone who's saying it ruined the series. Kacy shaming Rachel for turning in their "friend" was just about it for me (whether it was criminal or not, no "friend" keeps charging another friend's credit cards, and then lies about reimbursement for three months). I didn't buy Kacy's about face on that; I figured she'd say that Rachel helping Anna get arrested in the middle of another grift was karma. Certainly, the theatrics with Vivian and Todd boo-hooing about Anna going to prison was definitely the moment that ruined the series. Those two deserve each other. I enjoyed the first seven episodes, except for Anna Chlumsky's bad acting, but these last two episodes were like watching the Twilight Zone.

Edited March 5, 2022 by dovegrey
clarity

[Adiba]

On 2/23/2022 at 12:28 PM, jrlr said:

This monolithic mess should have been four episodes at the most, and I'd still be pissed off at how awful it was.  The writing was terrible - the structure, the characters and the direction are all sub-par.  And everytime the Vivian character was on screen, I wanted to scream "cut," and tell the actress to stop mugging, grimacing, whining and behaving like an amateur writer wannabe instead of a seasoned pro.   That was one of the worst performances I've ever seen from an actual professional.  There's an old show business edict: if it's not on the page, it's not on the stage.  Apparently, there was no page to work from.  Colossal, irritating waste of time.    

I couldn't even get through the series completely. I skipped some episodes and fast-forwarded through much of other episodes. I already knew the story of Anna Sorokin, but I wanted to see how this series handled it. What a disappointment.

 

[MsMalin]

I couldn't believe all the journalists were rooting for Anna. And wouldn't it be unethical for a journalist to buy clothes for a defendant she is reporting on! I enjoyed the series but can't wrap my head around anyone defending Anna. Besides being a thief she was a total bitch.

[MsMalin]

On 2/15/2022 at 9:25 AM, Melina22 said:

I guess I enjoyed this show so much because I've watched this whole sociopath/victim scenario play out more than once in my own life, sadly without the yachts or designer clothes, and all the complicated dynamics in the show ring true to me, just on a vastly more public level. I'll probably watch the series again soon. 

Sadly, so have I. Its heartbreaking and you feel so dumb and used. In one case my boss lied and lied for years while embezzling over 2 million $.

[dovegrey]

4 hours ago, MsMalin said:

I couldn't believe all the journalists were rooting for Anna. And wouldn't it be unethical for a journalist to buy clothes for a defendant she is reporting on! I enjoyed the series but can't wrap my head around anyone defending Anna. Besides being a thief she was a total bitch.

I think it was because Anna tended to rip off giant financial institutions, like Fortress, and wealthy society folks, who tended to lose their reputations more than their livelihoods (look at Alan, who got a promotion but lost his preferred squash court). Rachel and Neff appeared to be the only marks who could have lost their entire livelihoods, and Rachel was ridiculed/shamed because she pivoted, made money off of it, and still went gunning after Anna (good. for. her.). If Anna had made a game out of ripping off "regular" people, I imagine it would have been easier for all these people, including the journalists, to see right through her. People seem to really like to see rich folks get taken down a peg. That's the only way I can understand the Scriberians, and many of the characters, continuing to actively root for Anna.

Otherwise, Todd has his whole working-class-to-upper-class imposter syndrome complex, and he all but told his wife that he feels like a con artist who doesn't belong in her circles; Anna busted down those doors and manipulated him like the sociopath that she is. And, although I still don't understand Neff's complete inability to extrapolate how she would have felt had Anna not repaid Neff and the hotel (and accordingly empathized with Rachel), I think doing that would have required Neff to recognize and admit that she happily became Anna's smizing, drooling lapdog to pluck up all those pretty hundred-dollar bills (Episode 5 isn't terribly good for Neff). It's easier to rationalize that Anna was a friend. But I don't "get" Vivian's histrionics at the end or her prioritizing Anna over her own newborn child. And I don't understand Kacy's back-and-forth waffling.

[SnapHappy]

After watching that whole thing, the good, the bad and the indifferent, I have just ONE question, because I must have missed it: 

     What did they name the baby?

[BuckeyeLou]

Ugh, I just finished this series & I echo what most of the posters in this thread have said!  I just felt "yukky" and angry after watching this series, my husband(who did not watch) did not understand what I was yelling about.  Vivian is an Idiot(did the real Reporter, Jessica, think this was a good portrayal of herself?!) How could she just up & leave her new-born baby to go to Germany?!  I kept waiting for her "Saint" of a husband to take the baby & leave & say he was filing for Divorce.  And same with the Defense Lawyer's wife, she kept trying to be supportive but did not understand why this crazy Anna woman took presidence over their family.   WHY did Neff think Anna was a 'good" person(she kept telling people that), Neff was a crazy as Anna & Vivian.  I kept thinking the Psychiatrist guy in LA would diagnose her as Schizoid or something...Anna obviously was not a well person...she seemed like a Mentally Ill person who lived with her Delusions & was just mean & terrible to other people.  And I was totally on Rachel's side at the trial & did not understand why the Jurors would have ruled her case as "Not Guilty" but the other Counts were for Guilty.   Was I supposed to think it was amusing that Anna called people 'fat" & other names?!   I did NOT buy into her  this 'young immigrant girl trying to achieve the American Dream"...instead, I saw a Mentally Ill woman who destroyed a lot of lives...The whole story just made me say "UGH" at the end...I feel like I wasted my time watching this(Hoping to see that the Justice system worked) just like all these people in the show wasted their time on a very Sick woman. 

[Shriekingeel]

Did I miss if they ever gave the reason for the Delvey name? Anna’s mother pointedly mentioned that it wasn’t her maiden name, and I assumed they’d bring it up again. 

[SnapHappy]

1 hour ago, Shriekingeel said:

Did I miss if they ever gave the reason for the Delvey name? Anna’s mother pointedly mentioned that it wasn’t her maiden name, and I assumed they’d bring it up again. 

I don't think so.  She probably just chose it at random. 

And I thought Vivian's co-workers were cheering for each guilty count.  None of them seemed to have any sympathy for Anna. 

I did love what Neff's boyfriend said about people shooting films on their cellphones, so her procrastination was bullshit.  He was the only voice of reason in her life, so why was he with HER?  Hated her. 

I'm still trying to figure out what was so shocking about her passport.  Chase & Val both commented on knowing the contents, like it was secretly a Cuban passport or something.  Didn't everybody know she was Russian born then moved to Germany as a child?  Wasn't that all there was to it? 

Edited March 7, 2022 by SnapHappy

[dovegrey]

5 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

I don't think so.  She probably just chose it at random. 

And I thought Vivian's co-workers were cheering for each guilty count.  None of them seemed to have any sympathy for Anna. 

I did love what Neff's boyfriend said about people shooting films on their cellphones, so her procrastination was bullshit.  He was the only voice of reason in her life, so why was he with HER?  Hated her. 

I'm still trying to figure out what was so shocking about her passport.  Chase & Val both commented on knowing the contents, like it was secretly a Cuban passport or something.  Didn't everybody know she was Russian born then moved to Germany as a child?  Wasn't that all there was to it? 

Pretty sure the journalists were lamenting each guilty verdict. Edited to add: When Vivian announces the first “not guilty” verdict (the City National attempted grand larceny charge) over text, it cuts to the the journalists, who literally yell, “Yeah!” and “Fuck yeah! Whoo!” and throw their hands up with excitement. They were rooting for Anna.

In the same episode as the passport discovery, Anna lied to the yacht guy and everyone she knew there about not being Russian or knowing Russian words. She straight up denied it. No one knew her real background or real name, which is why she manipulated Chase into gaslighting and icing out Val. Never mentioning your real name and lying about your entire past to your live-in boyfriend who is bankrolling your life is pretty sketch. I also questioned the emphasis on her being Russian instead of the lying. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by dovegrey
detail instead of a new post

[SlovakPrincess]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:00 PM, Beachdreamer said:

When Anna is arrested and goes to jail and Neff and the trainer are still seeing her as some sort of friend, is it because neither of them were $62K in debt?  Based on Neff's one meal and the other woman's unwillingness to allow Anna to move in, I think we can assume they'd feel pretty differently if they had been. 

So how and where in all of this doe RACHEL become the bad guy, and if she is a bad guy in anyone's eyes, I would respectfully suggest that Neff and the trainer be held to the same standard. 

 

Yep.  Kacy was practically having an anxiety attack about Anna wanting a free place to stay, and Neff would never have let $62K slide.  And they also enjoyed the free fancy spa days, and (without the food poisoning / Neff's work schedule) would've both milked that whole Morocco trip, expecting (fairly reasonably!) that Anna would pay for it if Anna insisted on the most expensive suite at the resort.   I'm also puzzled by the show's weird, begrudging admiration for Anna's hustle, while apparently looking down on Rachel's windfall book deal.  Rachel still has a 9-5, she's been working this whole time, people!

There was something very junior high about how Neff and Kacy and Vivian all smirked at Rachel getting shredded in cross-examination and Anna getting acquitted on the count regarding the Morocco trip.  Like, "yeah Anna was a bully, but being a snitch and a crybaby is worse, Rachel!"  That really was the vibe I got from that.  

[Pattycake2]

There was essentially no difference between Anna using Nora’s credit card to buy herself expensive clothing etc. and using Rachel’s credit card to stay in Morocco.  She used the credit card that wasn’t hers to purchase things for herself while knowing she had no means to pay anyone back. During the whole series, I kept wondering why no one simply called their contacts in Germany to ask about Anna’s very rich father.  Or about Anna herself.  Surely she or her father would have been well known in Germany.  And how did Anna get into those expensive schools?  I agree with most of the posts here.  The last two episodes were terrible and made little sense.  On a shallow note, Anna Chlumsky was only 39 when she filmed this show, but looked ten years older.

[dovegrey]

10 hours ago, Pattycake2 said:

There was essentially no difference between Anna using Nora’s credit card to buy herself expensive clothing etc. and using Rachel’s credit card to stay in Morocco.  She used the credit card that wasn’t hers to purchase things for herself while knowing she had no means to pay anyone back. During the whole series, I kept wondering why no one simply called their contacts in Germany to ask about Anna’s very rich father.  Or about Anna herself.  Surely she or her father would have been well known in Germany.  And how did Anna get into those expensive schools?  I agree with most of the posts here.  The last two episodes were terrible and made little sense.  On a shallow note, Anna Chlumsky was only 39 when she filmed this show, but looked ten years older.

Nora gave permission for Anna to sign for her account at Bergdorf. I’m no financial fraud expert, but I highly doubt Nora would have successful legal recourse for that. That’s a lesson learned: don’t give other people access to your spending accounts. (Anna writing down Nora’s credit card number during the carry-out pick up is a whole different story.)

Likewise, Rachel agreed to put her card on file at the hotel and left it there when she fled the country; nothing about Anna continuing to stay there and put charges on the cards is ethically right, but Rachel put the card on file, left it there, and gave no instruction to the staff (at least on the show) to decline any additional charges. Was it truly fraud for Anna to keep charging it? I don't know, but I'm not surprised the jury declined to convict that charge. It strikes me more as a civil matter.

Hindsight being what it is, Rachel should have charged all expenses at that point to the card and taken it with her, or, once she felt safe and no longer held hostage by the hotel staff, called the CC company again and put a freeze on it (or reported it stolen and had it cancelled). But Anna really had her blinded and then got manipulated by her 'friends' into continuing to believe in Anna for so long afterward. (My frustration with Rachel is she cried and groveled more than she took any action. So much crying and handwringing.)

As it is, I don't think a boutique hotel clerk, a magazine assistant, and a personal trainer have contacts in Germany. Chase was new money and didn't have contacts or funds beyond his investors. The minute someone came close to discovering Anna, that person (Val) was manipulated out of the circle and cut off...and left believing Anna was the victim. Anna chose her marks wisely and had lots of excuses; this is how sociopaths/narcissists/grifters are successful, unfortunately.

Edited March 12, 2022 by dovegrey

[TheBride]

Am I the only one that thinks Vivian Kent is bizarre and almost hateful? Or is Anna Chlumsky just a horrible actor? 

[kwnyc]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:51 AM, Zonk said:

She got money for this?

Probably for her "life rights." Neff also sold Shondaland her life rights. (And I hope they at least are seeing if they can find her a job in the company).

Life rights means they are allowed to use your real name, and also they can change your story. Which is probably why "Vivian" and "the trainer" had different names. (Though in the final credits, the picture of the real person was shown, and where they are now)

If Anna Sorokin got any $$ from Netflix or any other publicity/interviews, chances are it had to pay back the debt she accrued. Also, convicted felons aren't allowed to profit from their crimes, so even if the money wasn't taken to repay her debt, I don't know that she could keep it (at least in NY State).

I also see that Anna is still in NY, but in ICE custody (federal), and will be deported, which she is fighting. (Next up for Anna: she gets married? She gets pregnant?) 

What some people have been wondering throughout the show is HOW people were taken in by Anna, and I think the original story by Jessica Pressler was on the nose in pointing out that people in NYC tend to be ambitious and not have enough money. And, they don't question it when people are handing it out.

I've been in the city a long time, and you do rub up against people (so to speak) of an amazing variety of classes, wealth and honesty. I've spotted a couple of cons-in-progress, and in both cases, my friends refused to believe me, insisting that the person was "real." (NB: I called out J.T. Leroy for a fake very early on.)

I don't think this story could have happened anywhere else than NYC, and I think that Sorokin is going to keep on finding people who believe her, and continue to grift her way around the world.

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Probably for her "life rights." Neff also sold Shondaland her life rights. (And I hope they at least are seeing if they can find her a job in the company).

Life rights means they are allowed to use your real name, and also they can change your story. Which is probably why "Vivian" and "the trainer" had different names. (Though in the final credits, the picture of the real person was shown, and where they are now)

If Anna Sorokin got any $$ from Netflix or any other publicity/interviews, chances are it had to pay back the debt she accrued. Also, convicted felons aren't allowed to profit from their crimes, so even if the money wasn't taken to repay her debt, I don't know that she could keep it (at least in NY State).

I also see that Anna is still in NY, but in ICE custody (federal), and will be deported, which she is fighting. (Next up for Anna: she gets married? She gets pregnant?) 

What some people have been wondering throughout the show is HOW people were taken in by Anna, and I think the original story by Jessica Pressler was on the nose in pointing out that people in NYC tend to be ambitious and not have enough money. And, they don't question it when people are handing it out.

I've been in the city a long time, and you do rub up against people (so to speak) of an amazing variety of classes, wealth and honesty. I've spotted a couple of cons-in-progress, and in both cases, my friends refused to believe me, insisting that the person was "real." (NB: I called out J.T. Leroy for a fake very early on.)

I don't think this story could have happened anywhere else than NYC, and I think that Sorokin is going to keep on finding people who believe her, and continue to grift her way around the world.

Well, Anna is going to have to continue her grifting in Germany.  She's been DEPORTED!