dovegrey

On the other hand, the show is a job, and, when Jenna left, production was still at the house with cameras ready, if not actually filming (I mean, they had footage). Everyone else stayed, even though they were arguably hungry, sleeping in rooms without heat, and possibly wanting to spend their night doing something else, too. The legacy HWs had similar issues when Bethenny came back and constantly ducked out on group events because she didn't want to miss time with her daughter; filming is a job and everyone else is on the hook to be there and film. Anyway, I don't know why the producers decided to show the partying/Jenna leaving stuff as a blink-and-miss it flashback; I'd rather see that kind of stuff than endless group counseling girl chat at lunch/dinner. As a general comment, Jenna gives me Carole vibes, like she's looking in at the rest of the cast from afar without seeing herself as part of them, only Carole seemed aware, relatively genuine (at least consistent through her seasons), and still willing to be part of the ridiculousness. As @jinjer said above, I don’t think this Jenna is anywhere near the real Jenna, although I like the persona. Jenna tried to lampshade the difference in she is on the show vs her business reputation by saying she’s just a different person when she’s at work, but I suspect it’s probably more she wants the exposure without the ridiculousness/embarrassment that will inherently come from being part of group events gone wild.

Yeah, this is more of how I see it. I grew up in dysfunctional/chaotic poverty, and I have a hard time doing most of the consumer-driven things I did with my mom as a kid. Sometimes it's the perception of being poor, sometimes it's not wanting to go backwards (I can afford clothes that fit me, aren't ripped/stained, and are unique to my personal preferences - that was a far-off dream as a kid), and sometimes it's just the environment triggers really unpleasant memories (e.g., thrift stores have a distinct smell to me and takes me right back to the worst times of my life as a powerless kid). My husband still sometimes gives me shit for "getting ready" just to walk down the driveway to get the mail. I don't think I'm snobby/vain more than very aware of how much appearances affected how peers, their parents, and adults used to treat me. I also partially avoid "slum it" stores, because I remember how much my family absolutely relied on those resources and couldn't afford going to the full-price stores (without loads of coupons that could be tripled and stacked onto weekly ad prices); if it wasn't at a discount/thrift/dollar store/yard sale, we often went without. I didn't see it as a backhanded insult. Jenna seems super awkward but well-intended, and she's also someone who knows fashion and which colors/cuts flatter different color seasons/body types. It was somewhat of a sizing miss with Jessel, but it doesn't seem like Jenna knows Jessel well enough to have made it a personal jab. Honestly, Jessel's reaction gave me vibes of when Kelly had a breakdown over Bethenny's SkinnyGirl Scary Island giftbag in season 3, haha. And I almost never receive gifts that I like but I still say "thanks, I really appreciate you thinking of me." IMO, it becomes a problem when the giver pesters the receiver to use the gift and takes it personally when that doesn't happen. Jenna didn't seem to be doing that. Although I did think it was weird that Jenna brought gifts for everyone, when she wasn't the host.

I usually adore the Hamptons part of the season but agree that this trip was too early. I would have liked to have seen the women in the day-to-day lives in the City, with some lunches or charity events or galas or invitations to hobbies (like when Kelly invited Ramona to the horse riding thing and completely ignored her LOL) before getting them together as a big group. The sex talk/two truths game seemed producer driven and like a retread of the season 9 group doing truth or dare and ending up having a fight about anal sex, penis sizes, and LuAnn wanting special treatment because she got married - but this group doesn’t know each other and we don’t know them, so it doesn’t hit right. More than anything, between last episode and this episode, the girl talk scenes go on way too long, while production decides to use three-second flashbacks to show the real drama. It's weird. I totally agree with Jenna that shakshuka before working out doesn’t sound good. Tomato sauce + lots of physical activity legit makes me throw up. Erin could have at least done SOMETHING for a light breakfast - bagels, scrambled eggs, avocado toast, fruit. Even if this trip got sprung on her after the cast shake-up and loss of footage (which I suspect is possibly what happened - and also why we're seeing an October? trip to the Hamptons), she still seems like a host who expects everyone to live like her and doesn’t do much to anticipate/meet/respond to guest needs. No heat? Get over it. No food? Who eats anyway. WTF! I liked Sai a lot better in this episode; I don’t begrudge her avoiding dollar stores. Brynn is annoying. Ubah is a non-entity. Overall, I’m liking and enjoying the show. I'm managing to separate it from Old RHONY in my head and enjoy it for what it is, which helps, because it's a very different dynamic and vibe.

The caviar, the can stealing, and Jessel's over-the-top lingerie flip out at the end all seemed manufactured to add drama. As a general comment - aside from those moments, it was otherwise pretty mundane and low key, and it felt like eavesdropping on normal people doing boring things in the Hamptons. Refreshing from having instafeuds at the drop of a drunken hat, but...also possibly boring. None of them are really taking bait - no one seemed actually angry/upset that Erin didn't really provide food, Erin couldn't be bothered that Ubah left to get a real meal, Jessel didn't seem bothered by her sex life being criticized (holy moly, I'd never comment on the sex life of a couple that recently went through any form of TTC/IVF), no one cares that Sai is constantly "influencing," etc. But getting ugly lingerie as a gift is what does it? IMO, it felt like all of the "drama" was a producer telling them to make something, anything, up.

I agree that TN/Finn is better when he’s not playing a Boy Scout and I’d like to see more dark side come out on a regular basis, but Finn being supportive of Sheila makes as much sense as Bill falling in love with her and turning against everyone. Since the shooting, Finn has been very vocally against Sheila, tried to kill her, had to be restrained by Bill from trying to kill her again, worked to prove Sheila was alive so she could be hunted and arrested, was as angry/disgusted as anyone with the whole Bill/Sheila/blackmail thing, etc. And he’s never wavered on the fact that Li is his real mom. Nothing has lead up to a change of heart. IMO, it’s complete character assassination. I couldn’t even watch the entire scene when he schmoozed with her about being held. For now, I’m telling myself that Carter gave Ridge and Bill a heads up that the charges weren’t going to stick, and those two devised Idiot Plan B: get Finn to dupe Sheila into some other trap, possibly related to the shooting (since he and Steffy recanted and all they have in this universe is Barnyard Court). Finn’s acceptance/love is the one thing she’s wanted since she came back, and she’s always appeared absolutely delusional about his real feelings. But Steffy’s not in on it, and, by the time the truth comes out, Steam will have already reunited, and Sinn will be destroyed by Finn doing the one thing Steffy's wanted since their wedding (get rid of Sheila). This would leave Finn with room to navigate the canvas in the aftermath, rather than being a pariah who stopped caring that his birth mother tried to kill him, his wife (twice), and mom. Yep. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

And so it really looks like Bravo wasn’t having success hiring credible, decent-calibre people to work with the OGs and round out a stable cast. After season 7, Tinsley (who seemed desperate to rehab her image rather than someone who actually had an aspirational lifestyle perspective to offer) lasted the longest and then got run off the show. After season 9, the season ratings started to gradually tank and just kept getting worse, which, IMO, tracks with the OGs (including Bethenny and her constant narc breakdowns) going off the rails and Bravo miscasting or not being able to find people to replace all the ones they couldn’t keep. Either way, you can’t do a HW show with three people; enter the likes of Crappie Lake. Whether the reboot lasts, I don’t really care. It just would have been cool to see Jenna and maybe a few of the new ones in the days when the legacy cast was still trying to pretend to have all that elegance and class LuAnn likes to talk about. 😂 I “miss” those days of the show.

Yep. Water finds its level. I think there's a reason that, in the 6 seasons after Heather and Kristen left, all Bravo could find were Jules, Tinsley, a lady that didn't even make it into the credits, Leah, and Eboni. I really can't imagine that Jenna and possibly a few of the other new HWs would want to be directly associated with the OG+Dorinda circus that the later seasons became. I could possibly see a season with Heather, Kristen, and/or Carole (hypothetically) and some of the new HWs. But I definitely don't want to see anyone who needs RHONY more than RHONY needs them.

Agreed. And I just have to vent. Until Ilsa, it was problematic that two men ended up being permanent, reliable, and unquestioned members of Ethan's team, while every "good guy" woman lead until Ilsa vanished without so much as a mention (except Julia, who at least got Fallout). It was nice that the franchise corrected that. And now Ilsa has been inexplicably disposed of as a character, to make room for a different woman to fill the only "good guy" woman slot the franchise allows. Really? Even in the theater, I really struggled to get past this element as it became more and more obvious what was happening. I'm not even a huge M:I fan, watch each new movie once, and have probably forgotten/conflated what's happened in most of the films, but Ilsa-->Grace was glaringly problematic. Ilsa's only role in this movie was to get fridged. TWICE. 💩 She didn't need to be in the movie. Although still problematic, it would have made more sense if Gabriel had kidnapped Julia and killed her in front of Ethan or left her for Ethan to find; then I would have bought the whole motivation factor and the "no matter how much you want to, you can't kill Gabriel" struggle. For not being a huge fan, I remember really feeling Ethan's terror in MI:3 and Fallout when it came to protecting Julia as well as his regret that he naively exposed her to his world. Still problematic but at least thematically coherent and consistent with prior films. But I enjoyed the overall movie and the overall plot, except for Grace intentionally messing everything up and running away constantly (that happened at least two too many times), and I enjoyed most of the stunts. The train derailment scene was really cool. The motorcycle/mountain scene, unfortunately, fell completely flat, because we'd already seen it 100 times in every promo and TV spot. And then they topped it off with Ethan conveniently crashing into the exact right train cabin at the exact right time and hitting the exact right person; that was well-filmed but lazy writing.

I can buy that Finn isn’t threatened by Liam but would find it aggravating/unacceptable to never know if he’ll be coming home to find Liam emotionally leeching off Steffy. No one wants their spouse to be emotionally enmeshed with another person, whether that’s a parent, coworker, sibling, BFF, or an ex-husband. That cord needs cut, period. It’s just that Finn, while often naively dim, is the only character on this show with anywhere close to real-world boundaries, and it’s funny that he’s been around for all of five seconds compared to others and already has Liam’s number, full stop. He already knows that Liam is going to try to fall back onto Steffy and try something; he just doesn't know that Liam has already forced himself onto Steffy, twice. I think he's smart (this once) and doesn't want to share his marriage with Steffy's ex; that's reasonable. Overall and in general, I’m curious where this is all going and have been since last summer's Sinn story, because no couple on this show stays together…but they really went all-in on both Steffy and Finn not being able to function without each other. Boring, even-keeled, aw-shucks Finn even tried to kill Sheila to get back to Steffy. So, I don’t see him leaving Steffy over two kisses that she didn't want; I think he'll be disappointed/upset with her for not telling him but absolutely furious with Liam for forcing himself onto her. But I wonder... if the story is leading to Liam raping Steffy (he is coming off as creepy unhinged to me), Liam then goes after Hope in some way because he can't handle her actively choosing Thomas over him (which is what happened yesterday, essentially; he just lost complete control of the situation), and then almost the entire canvas ends up with a motive to kill Liam and we have a long “who killed Liam?” SL (surprise, he’s not dead) (and it was Sheila, because of course...but she actually takes the fall for Finn 💀) (I'm bored and task-avoiding).

I didn’t entirely enjoy this episode, but I also didn't entirely dislike it. It was essentially a series premiere, and, like with all new HW shows, it’s hard to tell how everyone will gel, who will ease into it, and who won’t last. I’m interested enough to keep watching and liked that there was some old school harmless pettiness (WTF cheese?) but also some of the silliness. The only one I really can’t stand at this point is Brynn (besides that she styles herself like an overdone soap character from the '00s, she seems really immature). I like Jenna but I don’t want to. I enjoyed Erin. I'm interested in the others and think it might be fun once they get comfortable, drop the introductory acts, and really get going. All in all, I don’t begrudge the reboot, but it shouldn't have been called RHONY; it’s not RHONY. Like others, I wish they’d either kept a few established RHONY HWs but really can’t think of who I’d actually want to see in this new context, besides maybe Heather, Kristen, or even Carole (wishful thinking?). That being said... I watched RHONY from season 1 through season 11. I absolutely loathed season 10 and season 11 and have never actively rewatched them beyond the odd rerun. I watched part of season 12 and then stopped, with no interest in season 13. Looking back, I stopped watching new seasons because most of the long-term HWs became over-the-top caricatures of themselves who were stuck in piles of their own toxic shit (and then there was Leah, who got there all on her own). And, at least as I recall, RHONY became pretty much all most of them had going on, in one way or another, and it felt like a TV show about miserable drunk people filming a TV show about their TV show. As much as I love RHONY seasons 1-9 and have loads of positive nostalgia for most of those cast members, I don't know if it would be possible to fit Luann, Sonja, or Ramona (or Dorinda) into a show that's not entirely about them and their oddball dynamics. In that way, maybe meta spin-offs, like Crappie Lake and the legacy whatever trip, are for the best. The reboot got me watching the RHONY franchise again, including those spin-offs. 🤷‍♀️

It's funny; that's not how I see Pike, especially after the season one finale, where he came off, to me, as someone who doesn't do well at all when he doesn't fully understand the box he's in and can't well conceptualize how his decisions will land. It humanized him, in my eyes at least, pouf and all. Una's predicament here is a great example of the dilemma Pike should be facing with the knowledge that he has. At the end of S1, he lived a future where he didn’t promote off the Enterprise and dodged his doom, apparently for several years. In that future, Una was in prison and La’an wasn't on Enterprise, both of which the series just went way out of its way to reverse/prevent in the prime timeline. Is that what’s SUPPOSED to happen down the line, was it supposed to happen NOW, or is that what WOULD happen if Pike doom-dodged? A person could drive themselves insane trying to untangle that, but I agree that he has strong instincts that will guide him through 80% of the season. But, at some point, I hope a messier situation comes along and challenges Pike to balance his fate, his knowledge, and his choices to maintain his doom course.

I don't see it as having to do with his personality. He knows how he "dies," he now knows what is supposed to happen to his Enterprise, and he's human. He also now knows that his choices can change what happens to him, others he knows, and even the entire Federation. I see an interesting and unique character arc here, built off the S1 season finale, where Pike adamantly needs to make sure that he suffers his own worst possible fate, and he has, what, 6 years to mess that up before it happens? The exact thing I don't want the show to do is ignore that Pike now knows his future is the best possible outcome for everyone else but now also knows that his actions can change it; it's not immutable. I wouldn't want it to consume the series or become the focal point, but to me, it doesn't make any psychological or thematic sense for a person to be unaffected by such a complex burden.

Or, really, that he’s doomed at a specific point in time and that Kirk inherits Pike’s Enterprise. If you know you’re not going to die or destroy the ship, that has to be an ongoing mindfuck during critical situations, and, IMO, one of the most compelling elements that could/should come out of Pike knowing his future for these next several years. Does he become reckless? Does he become paralysed with fear of accidentally changing the future, like in the season one finale? Does he actually accidentally change the timeline because of what he knows and how that affects his actions? I’d like to move on from the angst without ignoring that he knows.

FWIW, and this is just me, I think I would have enjoyed more of SNW if I'd known less about TOS. To avoid spoilers, I'll leave it at that.

I've never watched Discovery and have no intention to, and I didn't feel like it affected my understanding of SNW enough to make it unwatchable. I enjoyed most of SNW's first season very much. But, without going into spoilers, I don't feel like SNW took the time to flesh out Pike beyond the big thing that happens to him in TOS, and, by the end of season one, I think I felt the impact of not watching his episodes on Discovery. I was also left wondering if Number One had prior development that was supposed to carry over to SNW. Things like that. (I also haven't watched TOS since the 90s.)