S03.E04: Lion in the Meadow

[TexasGal]

Quote

Logan and Kendall have their first meeting together with Josh, a major investor worried about their family feud.

Airdate: 11.07.2021

[Brian Cronin]

Brody is such great casting as a slimy, disingenuous dude.

[txhorns79]

"Should I just chug this?" - Never change, Cousin Greg.

[Mr. R0b0t]

I'm not sure I loved this episode all that much.  The long death march felt like a strange conceit and then it felt like Kendall seized on it and tried to accelerate his fathers demise...until he didn't.  The tattoo subplot felt off-kilter to me also.  I do love Tom slowly becoming unmoored.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I was legit worried Logan was about to kick the bucket for a minute there. I think Kendall is really getting to Logan and there was an emotional component to his "heat exhaustion." I think Logan really believes that Kendall is "the best one of all of them" and is capable but he can't just give up control and retire. He has to try to win much like that walk where he just refuses to quit.

Josh was really throwing his weight around, making them come out to his place with an obvious lie and then telling Logan who's really in charge. And all to get his 350 million dollars back that he doesn't even need. All I could think when they were walking back to the house was that he made his servants bring him food all the way out there.

Shiv is getting a dose of reality quick. Absolutely no one respects her or wants her input.

Tom might not get his glass of cold white wine in prison. Let's all send our thoughts and prayers his way.

Greg gets what he wants. I don't know how he bumbles his way through. I think he might be like a cockroach. No brains but a stellar sense of self-preservation.

Roman spends a million dollars for Tattoo Guy's pictures, that Gerri rightly points out, implicate him as well as Kendall. Gerri: "You need to be thinking 100% of the time on what advances my position." HA! I wonder if she let him go on that little Tattoo guy goose chase just to get him out of her hair for awhile before shutting it down.

Logan's call to the president while the president melts down was interesting...

Shiv had the line of the night. "We don't get embarrassed." Well that about sums it up!

[Diapason Untuned]

Connor had his knives out today! I particularly liked the irony of Shiv saying Connor couldn't expect to come in and be handed a high powered job when that is exactly what she wanted (and got). Seeing her get disrespected every which way was just hilarious. She needs to get a clue

"This is the quick way but sometimes it takes longer" I nearly died of laughter when I heard that line.

When Logan was saying all that nice stuff about Kendall, I couldn't help but think how Season 1 Ken would have responded and felt a little sad. Too little too late, Logan,

Tom seriously thinking about how to make moonshine out of prison toilets. This man is gonna flip and Shiv can't even muster up enough care about him to realize it.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Diapason Untuned

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't like Adrien Brody as a person but wow, as an actor.  I thought that his performance was absolutely chilling.  I also could feel that he was a billionaire from the first minute of the performance even though I had to Google who Josh even is and who Adrien was playing right after he appeared onscreen.

Why would they not let Logan fucking rest?  So fucking stupid, what was the point of almost killing him.  Was Josh testing him?  Jesus Christ.  

I hate those navy blue baseball caps.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Francie]

Was that death march planned by Josh? Was he testing the old man? I can't pull the trigger on that. On the one hand the whole "This is the short way, but sometimes it's longer" was so disingenuous. On the other hand, when Logan was clearly in trouble, Josh was clearly lost. They needed a flare gun. 

As much as I couldn't stand Shiv last episode, I felt for her this one. Everyone was acting like she was gum on the bottom of their shoe. But then she pulled it out with Nazi Mark in the end. They played the scene between Shiv and him like she had overplayed her hand. But, based on the Raisin's call to Logan, she won that round. Good job, writers, faking me out with thinking it was Shiv on the other line with Logan when Logan talked about having no influence and Mark having editorial control. 

Tom and Greg. I'm ... lost ... wow, that was weird. Are they kinda, sorta laying the groundwork for Tom actually liking Greg? Like like/liking him? Is the middle school bullying and tantrum his outlet for frustration or genuine doesn't know how to express his feelings interaction? 

Oh, way to tease me about Gerri and Roman. I love their relationship just like that. And Gerri's right - Roman comes off just as bad in that story. It doesn't matter which brother's initials were tattooed on the forehead. So, are those photos now leverage that Gerri has? There goes Shiv's flame retardant suit. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Francie
their shoe, not her own shoe

[RealReality]

19 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't like Adrien Brody as a person but wow, as an actor.  I thought that his performance was absolutely chilling.  I also could feel that he was a billionaire from the first minute of the performance even though I had to Google who Josh even is and who Adrien was playing after he appeared.  

Why would they not let Logan fucking rest?  So fucking stupid, what was the point of almost killing him.  Was Josh testing him?  Jesus Christ.  

I hate those navy blue baseball caps.

Or how about, you know he is an old man, so maybe have the carts like 2 minutes away so they can pull up once lunch is done.  

I think Josh was testing Logan and Kendall's reaction.  

I don't think Kendall had any water on him or he would have given it to Logan, because he was trying to get Logan to rest towards the end.  It feels like Josh was maybe never going to give them a fair shake and would always have a "reason" why he went with Stewy.  

Shiv's smug smile disappeared real quick when she saw once again how quick her dad turned on her.  Guess she may have backed the wrong team.  

[Blakeston]

Josh loved having power over Logan and Kendall, but I don't think he actually wanted or expected physical harm to come to Logan. He just wanted to see Logan sweat, and maybe even admit that he needed help. (Which of course Logan was too proud and pig-headed to do.)

I don't think Kendall wanted any harm to befall Logan, either. He was happy to stick it to Logan when Logan insisted that he didn't need help - but once it was clear that Logan was actually in physical danger, he became genuinely concerned.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Blakeston

[Athena5217]

30 minutes ago, Francie said:

Was that death march planned by Josh? Was he testing the old man? I can't pull the trigger on that. On the one hand the whole "This is the short way, but sometimes it's longer" was so disingenuous. On the other hand, when Logan was clearly in trouble, Josh was clearly lost. They needed a flare gun

I don’t think Josh planned that if for no other reason then having someone have a heart attack on his private island sounds like a major disruption to day and invites unwelcome publicity. I think he was just clueless about Logan’s health and wanted them to do everything his way. I do think he got lost on the way back and just wouldn’t admit it. 
 

The Roys are like high school girls gossiping about what everyone is saying. I can’t believe these people own a billion dollar company. They never seem to actually do any work. No wonder shareholders are nervous about them. Roman’s top priorities this episode were finding that tattoo guy and rubbing his feet in front of Gerri.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Athena5217

[thuganomics85]

Man, teleconference calls in general are always awkward, but leave it to this lot to manage to make it something special.  Kendall definitely set the tone with the "Little Lord Fuckroy" moniker.  Loved how smugly proud he was about that, while everyone else was just rolling their eyes and being all "Oh, for fuck sakes, Kendall!  Are you twelve?!"

So, Adrien Brody finally crashes the party as Josh: another rich dude who has enough of a significant investment in the company to make both Kendall and Logan rush to his side once it sounds like he is thinking about jumping ship.  He was certainly a character.  Not sure if he really was just playing coy and waiting to see how the trek back was going to play out or if he always intended to join Sandy and Stewy, and was just fucking with the Roys.  Hard to get a full read on him yet.  But it definitely looks like he is on Sandy/Stewy's side now, so this will likely shake up the dynamics and make it more than just "Logan vs. Kendall."

I know the "you can cut the tension with a knife" saying has been done numerous times, but damn, was I feeling that during every moment between Kendall and Logan: especially the silent moments.  Jeremy Strong and Brian Cox really sold all of the emotions going on there.  It wasn't just simply that they felt hatred for one another and wanted to destroy each other: that would have been easier for them, honestly.  Instead, there was a sense that; despite everything; there was still... some kind of twisted love or caring between one another that is buried underneath all of the posturing, insults, and bullshit.  It will likely be fleeting, but it really sells how complicated and fascinating this relationship is.

Credit to Shiv for being able to make the anchor dude fall in line, but I'm not sure she's prepared for what might happen if she keeps making everyone else hate her.  Or possibly worse: her indifference to Tom and his concerns.  Speaking of which:

"I'd castrate you and marry you in a heartbeat!"  Classic Terminal Tom right there!

I will continue to wonder if Greg is destined to suffer the worst fate here or will he actually come out on top when it is all said and done.  I really don't see a middle ground for him.

Roman definitely showed some good hustle with tracking down the homeless guy, but as with most things on Succession, Gerri was right on the money that exposing the tattoo would have probably just blown back on Roman as much as Kendall, which, in turn, would negatively effect her.

Connor was only in one scene, but it was an interesting one.  I don't think he was bluffing and might actually have some ammo he can use if he thinks Logan, Shiv, etc. continue to  take him for granted.

[aghst]

Tom is really starting to panic about going to jail.  He talks about how much he loves the cold white wine on an empty stomach, which is a callback to the episode where he boasted to Greg about how to live like a rich man, eating obscure French songbirds.

Greg has no choice but to sign the JDA, since he needs his job and is angling for a post away from ATN.  So what happens to the papers that he saved?

"Lion in the Meadow" refers to what, a predator lurking nearby, ready to pounce at any minute?  Is that suppose to be Josh?  He tried to get Kendall to drop his accusations, so that he doesn't have to worry that Logan's faction is divided but Kendall couldn't do that.  It would destroy his credibility when he's trying to take over.

I think Josh had Stewy coming anyways, probably was going to have both sides pitch to him -- his daughter wasn't sick, he wanted them to come to him.  Kendall's refusal alone may have clinched it for Josh to decide to go with Sandy and Stewy, instead of Logan getting sick and refusing to ask for help.

Even if Shiv proved herself to be very capable, there's no way those old guys were going to accord her respect right off the bat.  Even though Logan said to stay on top of Frank and Karl, he then told her she wasn't doing it right.  She laid the law down on Ravenhead though, so she may yet earn respect.

Conor tells Shiv he could expose Logan unless he got some Waystar executive positions to pad his resume for a future presidential campaign and Logan tells Kendall that they have the Tattoo Man in his pocket.  

Great the family that blackmails together.

[Francie]

I think Tom is already in talks for a deal (remember that call he made to the attorney an episode or two ago). He’s partially scared about still having to do some jail time, but he’s also testing Shiv. 

24 minutes ago, aghst said:

Lion in the Meadow" refers to what, a predator lurking nearby, ready to pounce at any minute

I was visually reminded of the title when I saw Logan walking amongst all those tall reeds. 

[Hera]

1 hour ago, Francie said:

Tom and Greg. I'm ... lost ... wow, that was weird. Are they kinda, sorta laying the groundwork for Tom actually liking Greg? Like like/liking him? Is the middle school bullying and tantrum his outlet for frustration or genuine doesn't know how to express his feelings interaction?

This has been their dynamic from the start. I definitely get homoerotic undertones from the way Tom interacts with Greg (the first time was when they went out for that fancy dinner in season 1). Tom also pulls the "Haha, you actually trusted me even though I was joking—what a rube!" thing quite often. I'm not sure if it's meant to show anything beyond Tom's insecurities.

My interpretation is that Tom had spent years being on the fringe of this family (and resenting it) and then Greg came along. Tom immediately felt threatened by Greg in a way that the others didn't, because while he's not one of Logan's children, he is still a member of the family, albeit a cousin rather than a son-in-law. So Tom set out to be Greg's mentor so that he could try to insert himself between Greg and the rest of the family (thus keeping Greg beneath Tom), but I think it's clear that gambit has failed and was probably always going to. Not only does Greg have an in with the Roys, but he also has a connection to the company through his grandfather that is independent of Logan's kids (and may or may not be independent of Logan). Greg's position has always been stronger than Tom's—it's just taken him (Greg) a little while to realize it.

[Ellaria]

11 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I was legit worried Logan was about to kick the bucket for a minute there. I think Kendall is really getting to Logan and there was an emotional component to his "heat exhaustion." I think Logan really believes that Kendall is "the best one of all of them" and is capable but he can't just give up control and retire. He has to try to win much like that walk where he just refuses to quit.

Josh was really throwing his weight around, making them come out to his place with an obvious lie and then telling Logan who's really in charge. And all to get his 350 million dollars back that he doesn't even need. All I could think when they were walking back to the house was that he made his servants bring him food all the way out there...

...Greg gets what he wants. I don't know how he bumbles his way through. I think he might be like a cockroach. No brains but a stellar sense of self-preservation.

 

I loved this episode! Adrien Brody was excellent. I enjoy seeing other characters match the Roys in "awfulness" and manipulation. (As an aside, not only did he make his household help bring the food out to that remote location, no one ever ate that food.) Loved his hug with Stewy on the tarmac while Kendall was still sitting in his plane. 

Logan's health issues may become a bigger concern for his children and possibly the shareholders.

I wouldn't say that Greg has "no brains." He is unsophisticated and not necessarily quick on his feet. However, self-preservation requires a certain degree of intelligence, especially when playing with the Roys. Despite not being given a lot of insight into his thinking, he seizes on opportunities to protect himself and his interests.

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Credit to Shiv for being able to make the anchor dude fall in line, but I'm not sure she's prepared for what might happen if she keeps making everyone else hate her.  Or possibly worse: her indifference to Tom and his concerns...

...Connor was only in one scene, but it was an interesting one.  I don't think he was bluffing and might actually have some ammo he can use if he thinks Logan, Shiv, etc. continue to  take him for granted.

My opinion on the "worst Roy kid" varies on a weekly basis but Shiv is piling up the votes from me. She is in over her head and, like the rest of them, is too dependent on her father's approval. I'm wondering if she actually has a plan.

I hope that Connor has some ammo because I would love to see him do the unexpected.

11 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

Tom seriously thinking about how to make moonshine out of prison toilets. This man is gonna flip and Shiv can't even muster up enough care about him to realize it.

Agree. Tom is a bit unhinged right now and I can't blame him. I don't know what he may be capable of but self-preservation is a powerful motivator. Shiv won't see it coming.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Ellaria Sand

[cloeymoon]

10 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Why would they not let Logan fucking rest?  So fucking stupid, what was the point of almost killing him.  Was Josh testing him?  Jesus Christ.  

I hate those navy blue baseball caps.

I believe he was testing them to see if Ken would take control and step up if something happened to Logan, and he kept listening to Logan not to say anything when he clearly needed help… by the time Ken did speak up it was almost too late. 
 

Those hats are ridiculous!

[BlackberryJam]

I thought the hats were showing us how Logan and Kendall are so much the same. As to the island trek, Josh, who was a total dick, and well-played by Adrien, seemed to want to isolate Ken and Logan so they couldn't get away from each other. I don't think Josh intentionally wanted Logan to stroke out, but Josh didn't care if he did. 

Also, Roman looked so happy when Gerri ordered him around. I love them so much together. So much.

I'm going to have to watch this one again.

 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

9 hours ago, Hera said:

11 hours ago, Francie said:

Tom and Greg. I'm ... lost ... wow, that was weird. Are they kinda, sorta laying the groundwork for Tom actually liking Greg? Like like/liking him? Is the middle school bullying and tantrum his outlet for frustration or genuine doesn't know how to express his feelings interaction?

This has been their dynamic from the start. I definitely get homoerotic undertones from the way Tom interacts with Greg (the first time was when they went out for that fancy dinner in season 1). Tom also pulls the "Haha, you actually trusted me even though I was joking—what a rube!" thing quite often. I'm not sure if it's meant to show anything beyond Tom's insecurities.

I think Tom takes out his frustrations with Shiv on Greg. He can't take them out on Shiv because she's his meal ticket and also kind of in a position of power over him due to her family. So he finds someone weaker and more vulnerable to bully when he can't hit back at Shiv. IIRC, Tom threw those water bottles at Greg last season when Greg asked to leave News and it triggered Tom's feelings about Shiv asking for an open marriage. This episode, Shiv ordered Tom to talk to Ravenhead and I don't think Tom liked that very much, especially when facing prison thanks to getting involved with Waystar. I mean that whole story about Nero and Sporos was really on the nose. Tom would love to metaphorically throw Shiv down the stairs and rid himself of all the problems she brings with her. So when he told Greg he'd castrate him and marry him in a heartbeat, I think it meant he'd like to be the one in control in his relationship instead of the other way around.

[iMonrey]

What was this Ravenhead deal that Shiv and Tom were talking about? Did I miss something? I couldn't follow that at all.

My favorite part was the automated voice message saying "Little Lord Fucklerory" has left the meeting.

I actually had to look up who "Karl" was after Logan reamed out Shiv over the phone. First of all, there are way too many extraneous characters on this show, and even though I recognize them I have a hard time keeping track of all their names. Second of all, would Karl really call Logan to complain about Shiv? And would Logan really care that much what Karl thinks about Shiv? This feels like a setup for Shiv to eventually flip sides, if Logan keeps tipping his hand that he really doesn't want her for anything other than a cosmetic front.

Edited November 8, 2021 by iMonrey

[kassandra8286]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What was this Ravenhead deal that Shiv and Tom were talking about? Did I miss something? I couldn't follow that at all.

If I'm understanding correctly, Logan told Shiv to have "Ravenhead" (is that a nickname or their actual name? lol) and "Mark" (who are news anchors I guess?) start being more critical of the President. Shiv passed down that order to Tom, who didn't want to do it because  he said Ravenhead wouldn't take it well. I don't think we've ever seen Ravenhead but I'm not sure. Mark was the other anchor that Shiv herself talked to, who also resisted at first but ultimately caved and complied, going by the phone call Logan got from the President at the end of the episode.

[aghst]

It's Mark Ravenhead, the suspected Nazi sympathizer.  He gets huge ratings.

Shiv referenced a $30 million salary.

They didn't show it but Ravenhead bullied Tom when he tried to deliver the message.  So Shiv went to him, told him "you're going to do what we say."

Apparently he wasn't willing to walk away from a $30 million salary.

 

[sistermagpie]

25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

My favorite part was the automated voice message saying "Little Lord Fucklerory" has left the meeting.

 

My favorite part was Greg asking for a rum & coke. That was a moment of sublime, subtle hilarity that was just perfect--even before it gave Logan the chance to call for a Coca-cola for Greg.

2 minutes ago, kassandra8286 said:

If I'm understanding correctly, Logan told Shiv to have "Ravenhead" (is that a nickname or their actual name? lol) and "Mark" (who are news anchors I guess?) start being more critical of the President. Shiv passed down that order to Tom, who didn't want to do it because  he said Ravenhead wouldn't take it well. I don't think we've ever seen Ravenhead but I'm not sure. Mark was the other anchor that Shiv herself talked to, who also resisted at first but ultimately caved and complied, going by the phone call Logan got from the President at the end of the episode.

Ravenhead is the anchor who has read Mein Kampf more than once because he missed some Easter eggs the first time through.

[kassandra8286]

Thanks, @sistermagpie and @aghst!  Even with rewinding and closed captioning I missed that Mark and Ravenhead were the same person, lol.

[Francie]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

What was this Ravenhead deal that Shiv and Tom were talking about? Did I miss something? I couldn't follow that at all.

My favorite part was the automated voice message saying "Little Lord Fucklerory" has left the meeting.

I actually had to look up who "Karl" was after Logan reamed out Shiv over the phone. First of all, there are way too many extraneous characters on this show, and even though I recognize them I have a hard time keeping track of all their names. Second of all, would Karl really call Logan to complain about Shiv? And would Logan really care that much what Karl thinks about Shiv? This feels like a setup for Shiv to eventually flip sides, if Logan keeps tipping his hand that he really doesn't want her for anything other than a cosmetic front.

Don't diss Karl, man! He's immortalized as the "if his hands are clean, it's because his whorehouse also does manicures" guy. And boar on the floor participant. 

Karl, Frank, and Gerri all know what they're doing in business. They aren't family; they actually have to offer something of value to Logan to be kept around for so long.  Logan may distrust their allegiance from time to time and thinks all are greedy pigs taking advantage of him, but he doesn't mistrust their capabilities in their particular specialty areas. Frank is CFO, so his expertise is financials. 

Shiv, meanwhile, misunderstood the extent of her authority. Logan wants her to spy on them and report back to him. She actually thought she had authority over them. 

So, yes, it makes sense that Logan would come down on Shiv and put her in her place. Logan doesn't care about what Karl thinks of Shiv. Logan just doesn't want Karl annoyed by distractions and running to him. It doesn't matter what the annoyance is, and in this case it happens to be Shiv. 

[tennisgurl]

Adrien Brody really is great casting as a rich guy so self involved and such a big deal (and knows it) that he can make Kendall and Logan rush to his beach picnic just to make sure he stays on their side. An instantly memorable performance, he flipped that switch between friendly and intimidating so seamlessly it was actually shocking to see his teeth, even knowing they were there all along. 

I don't think that Josh or Kendall were actually trying to hurt Logan, although I can imagine that Josh wanted to see him sweat a bit and possibly even have to ask for help, he underestimated how stubborn Logan can be. Especially now that he feels like the dying gazelle that all of the vultures are circling around, and all he can seemingly do is tell more and more people to fuck off. I don't think that Logan is totally out, but he is definitely not the master of his domain that he used to be, its partially why Kendall has even gotten as far as he has. 

Shiv was just having an awful time of it, she is getting a cold hard dose of reality. No one, not even her father, likes or respects her, everything she has was handed to her because of who her father is, after she has tried so hard to convince herself and everyone that that isn't the case. I cant even feel that badly for her considering how she cant even pretend to care that her husband is possibly going to go to prison, even as he spirals about Nero and toilet wine. Oh Terminal Tom. 

Connor really came in hard, he was only in one scene but he really made that scene worth it. I can totally imagine that he knows a ton of dirt on Logan that not even the other Roy's know, he's a lot older then his siblings, he was there when Logan was still ruthlessly building his company up, he probably knows where the first bodies are buried. 

"A mans drink." Classic Cousin Greg. 

No wonder the board and the shareholders are over the Roy's, they spend way more time on their petty powers games with each other then running the actual company. 

[Mahatma K Jeevs]

13 hours ago, Francie said:

14 hours ago, aghst said:

Lion in the Meadow" refers to what, a predator lurking nearby, ready to pounce at any minute

I was visually reminded of the title when I saw Logan walking amongst all those tall reeds. 

I suppose Logan is the Lion.  "Lion the the Meadow" may be a reference to "The Lion in Winter" a play/movie about a 12th century English king and his ruthless children.  If you haven't seen the 1968 movie, and you are a fan of this show, it might be worth a look.  It has a great cast, including Peter O'Toole, Katherine Hepburn, and Anthony Hopkins.  Timothy Dalton, a future James Bond, has a small role as the 1180 ad equivalent of Stewy.  You do have to accept that O'Toole is too young for the role he is cast in.   

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, Mahatma K Jeevs said:

I suppose Logan is the Lion.  "Lion the the Meadow" may be a reference to "The Lion in Winter"

First thing that came to my mind as well.   And agree it's definitely worth the look.

 

[cardigirl]

I think Tom and Greg's relationship is really complicated by the fact that they care about each other, or did.  Initially Tom thought he could bully Greg and push him around, sort of like a little brother, but he's seen how Greg has maneuvered himself to stay out of trouble, and he's also seen Greg try to warn him of problems when need be. The depth of feeling Greg has for Tom was reflected in the episode Safe Room, when Tom thought Greg was leaving him and starting lobbing water bottles in frustration. 

Tom wants love and isn't quite clear on how to get it. Maybe he even feels he doesn't deserve it. And Greg also wants love, and is trying to figure out his way in the big dark woods of the the world. He's coming across as a very guileless individual. So far that makes him endearing and, as far as the Roys are concerned, not much of a threat. 

"How many Gregs do you have to break to make a Tomelette?" still makes me smile. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by cardigirl

[BrownBear2012]

16 hours ago, Hera said:

This has been their dynamic from the start. I definitely get homoerotic undertones from the way Tom interacts with Greg (the first time was when they went out for that fancy dinner in season 1). Tom also pulls the "Haha, you actually trusted me even though I was joking—what a rube!" thing quite often. I'm not sure if it's meant to show anything beyond Tom's insecurities.

My interpretation is that Tom had spent years being on the fringe of this family (and resenting it) and then Greg came along. Tom immediately felt threatened by Greg in a way that the others didn't, because while he's not one of Logan's children, he is still a member of the family, albeit a cousin rather than a son-in-law. So Tom set out to be Greg's mentor so that he could try to insert himself between Greg and the rest of the family (thus keeping Greg beneath Tom), but I think it's clear that gambit has failed and was probably always going to. Not only does Greg have an in with the Roys, but he also has a connection to the company through his grandfather that is independent of Logan's kids (and may or may not be independent of Logan). Greg's position has always been stronger than Tom's—it's just taken him (Greg) a little while to realize it.

I think Tom acts like an abused person. He’s being abused so he abuses someone. His abuse of Gregg is classic abusive acting out behavior…put downs, name calling, bullying. Tom is an ass kisser and basically a loser and disrespected by his wife and her family. 

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, Mahatma K Jeevs said:

I suppose Logan is the Lion.  "Lion the the Meadow" may be a reference to "The Lion in Winter" a play/movie about a 12th century English king and his ruthless children. 

I thought the same thing, especially as the play/movie is about an aging king trying to decide which of his ambitious dysfunctional children will take over his throne when he dies, while also not wanting to admit that his best days are behind him and that he might be too old to fight against his heirs who could usurp him. Especially in an episode where Logan's health seems to be failing him. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

My favorite part was Greg asking for a rum & coke. That was a moment of sublime, subtle hilarity that was just perfect--even before it gave Logan the chance to call for a Coca-cola for Greg.

I don't know, lately Greg has just been making me cringe. 

[Double A]

Yikes. That ending with Kendall watching Josh embrace Stewy will trigger some kind of impulsive, ill advised reaction. Can't wait!

[sistermagpie]

51 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know, lately Greg has just been making me cringe. 

It took some kind of skill (is skill the right word?) for Greg to order the worst possible, yet still believable drink, in that moment.

[Enigma X]

I binged watched the previous episodes and am now all caught up. Honestly, certain things kind of dumbfounded me mostly centering around Tom (but others too). The first was the Tom/Shiv pairing at all and secondly how Tom acts mainly toward Greg. Then I read on Wikipedia this is a dark comedy (supposedly) and now things make more sense. This is not to say I am not enjoying it, but if I view some situations through that lens I scratch my head less.

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I thought the same thing, especially as the play/movie is about an aging king trying to decide which of his ambitious dysfunctional children will take over his throne when he dies, while also not wanting to admit that his best days are behind him and that he might be too old to fight against his heirs who could usurp him. Especially in an episode where Logan's health seems to be failing him. 

Excellent observation! I watched that movie many years ago. Logan’s health is going to be factor going forward. He is a man that never wants to accept any sort of weakness, in himself or others. He may not be able to outrun the issues this time unlike in S1.

36 minutes ago, Double A said:

Yikes. That ending with Kendall watching Josh embrace Stewy will trigger some kind of impulsive, ill advised reaction. Can't wait!

Agree. Impulsive, ill-advised reactions seem to be Kendall’s specialty and I hope that he is learning to move away from that stuff. Sigh…but the Roy kids don’t really learn from past mistakes. 

[xaxat]

Was anyone else distracted by the number of layers Josh was wearing? T-shirt, casual shirt, sweater, hoodie and a vest. (Yes, I did rewind to get all of that.) He wore it well.

Josh's powerplay was brilliant. "Yes Kendall and Logan, I am going to get you into the same room and then I am going to make you come to my island in a last minute change and then you will find out my reason for the change was bullshit and then we will walk all over the island so I can see if Logan still has the vigor to run the company. Because you need me.

Frank and Karl remind me of Statler and Waldorf from the Muppet Show. Two older white dudes on the periphery of the action who know each other well enough to finish each other's sentences.

Roman: "I don't mean to be a dick here." Proceeds to be a massive dick to the homeless man.

[TimWil]

I am totally on board for the spinoff Deputy Greg of Brightstar Buffalo. A wacky but heartwarming slice of amusement park life. Think about it, HBO.

Mark Ravenhead approving a “Pedo Daycare” segment for his nightly broadcast, however, made me wince.

[Athena5217]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

Was anyone else distracted by the number of layers Josh was wearing? T-shirt, casual shirt, sweater, hoodie and a vest. (Yes, I did rewind to get all of that.) He wore it well.

Yes. I actually wondered how he could walk so fast in all those layers. It reminded me of Steve Bannon, although the clothing was the only similarity so I don’t think it was a reference.

[tomsmom]

I too had trouble listening to anything Josh said at first because I was so confused by his T-shirt, button up, sweater, and hoodie then he goes and puts an orange vest over that! What the hell? 

Edited November 9, 2021 by tomsmom

[BrownBear2012]

This family is such a hot mess. All the money, homes, helicopters, private jets, etc...and none of them are happy with their lives. They are just empty shells emotionally. They hate each other and spend their days plotting against each other and/or sucking up to their father who uses them and abuses them emotionally. Truth is, I don't see Logan handing down the corporation to any of his kids. None of them are competent to run a company of that magnitude and he knows that. So...we'll have to wait for the last season to see who Logan chooses. Logan's passive aggressive anti semitic comments to Josh were cringy...old school kind of guy that Logan.

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Truth is, I don't see Logan handing down the corporation to any of his kids.

Yeah, I think it will end with a hostile takeover by Sandy and Stewy and all the Roys will be out on their asses.  That's what hubris gets you.

I can see Tom jumping to Kendall because he doesn't want to go to jail.  The thing is he is the one who should go to jail because he covered up all the crimes committed in the cruise division.

I never considered the parallel to A Lion in Winter.  Same plot, less fucks.  The Plantagenets were the original Roys.  (It's a great play/movie.  Such great dialog.)

[Zaffy]

Weakest episode of the season so far.

The whole thing with Josh was dragging so much that ruined Kendall and Logan 's awkward meeting. Heatstroke? Poor Logan was probably almost got bored to death by having to deal with such an unpleasant person as Josh who was  basically saying the same things again and again. Btw, they could make Josh the new "tattoo man", he can  proudly put an "another rich person you love to hate" in his forehead. 
Tom and Greg have started to annoy me, they are seriously flirting with turning into caricatures, especially Greg.

I wonder if I got some "fatigue" from the series, this was the first episode that bored me,  it just seems like if they keep repeating the same scenes in variations, but not always successfully.

[Francie]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I can see Tom jumping to Kendall because he doesn't want to go to jail.  The thing is he is the one who should go to jail because he covered up all the crimes committed in the cruise division.

 

I feel for Tom in that, back in season 1, his first inclination was to hold a press conference and make it all public. Interestingly, that hasn't been mentioned since. And the two people who stopped Tom in his tracks: Greg, by ratting him out to Gerri, and Gerri herself. 

With Tom's spiraling, I don't know if his future holds an attempted suicide. That'd be a nice call back to Gerri's off-the-cuff marriage advice to Shiv -- "Don't let him die." 

 

[smartymarty]

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, I think it will end with a hostile takeover by Sandy and Stewy and all the Roys will be out on their asses.  That's what hubris gets you.

IRL, that would happen, but where would that put the series?

Add me to the distracted by Josh's layer of clothes and that nobody ate the lunch. And how was it cold enough for Josh to wear that much, and Kendall and Logan bundled up as well, but warm enough for Josh's daughter to go swimming?

2 hours ago, Zaffy said:

seriously flirting with turning into caricatures

I agree. Not going anywhere. I was bored with episodes 1 and 2 more than 3 and 4 though. At least 3 and 4 had some nice visuals (Shiv's dress and hair in 3, Josh's house and island in 4). But there is more game-playing than strategic maneuvering going on -- I'm eager for them to just get to the board meeting already.

[heatherchandler]

On 11/7/2021 at 10:03 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

 

I hate those navy blue baseball caps.

What is with the baseball caps?  

 

On 11/7/2021 at 11:40 PM, aghst said:

"Lion in the Meadow" refers to what, a predator lurking nearby, ready to pounce at any minute?  Is that suppose to be Josh?  He tried to get Kendall to drop his accusations, so that he doesn't have to worry that Logan's faction is divided but Kendall couldn't do that.  It would destroy his credibility when he's trying to take over.

 

22 hours ago, Mahatma K Jeevs said:

I suppose Logan is the Lion.  "Lion the the Meadow" may be a reference to "The Lion in Winter" a play/movie about a 12th century English king and his ruthless children.  If you haven't seen the 1968 movie, and you are a fan of this show, it might be worth a look.  It has a great cast, including Peter O'Toole, Katherine Hepburn, and Anthony Hopkins.  Timothy Dalton, a future James Bond, has a small role as the 1180 ad equivalent of Stewy.  You do have to accept that O'Toole is too young for the role he is cast in.   

There is a children's book called "Lion in the Meadow" and it is about a child who tells his mother that there is a lion in the meadow and she doesn't believe him.  He keeps trying to let her know about the lion but she keeps shushing him and going on with her day.  At the end, she gives him a solution, a dragon in a matchbox, which in his mind makes the problem worse, as he now sees a dragon as well.  I still can't fully understand the subtext and symbolism of that book, but I love it.

I am trying to figure out how it applies to this episode.

 

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, I think it will end with a hostile takeover by Sandy and Stewy and all the Roys will be out on their asses.  That's what hubris gets you.

And then they move to Schitt's Creek.

[showme]

33 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

And then they move to Schitt's Creek.

Well, if that happens, they lose control of the company, but they will still have their shares of the company and their money; so probably no need to move to Schitt's Creek, although those brats, especially Kendall, deserve to lose all their money.

[DrSparkles]

Where was this fabulous island supposed to be?

[BrownBear2012]

1 hour ago, DrSparkles said:

Where was this fabulous island supposed to be?

Well, seeing that they had to take a chopper to get to the private jets, it had to be more than three hours away. It looked East Coast...maybe somewhere between New York and Maine?