S02.E12: Inverting the Pyramid of Success

[MissLucas]

10 hours ago, lauridsen said:

Beard was right - Ted needs to get mad, for his own sake.  It isn't his responsibility to fix everyone, and he needs to realize that.

No, it isn't but it's his coping mechanism - you can trace thar right back to his father's suicide. The show never spilled it out in details but you can fill in the blanks of how young Ted tried to make everything right for his mother (and himself). I suspect that some of the criticism the show got this season harks back to the unsettling idea that Ted's supposed 'wholesomeness' is not coming from a healthy place (never mind that this was already implied in season one).

[Ellaria]

On 10/8/2021 at 1:03 PM, DEL901 said:

I almost forgot about when Ted and Beard were on the bench and the old man yelled at him…but then added, “do the work and you will be okay”.   He is a lot more respected than he thought and there will be more understanding and acceptance than Nate expected, making Nate even angrier.  

I can’t imagine how Nate will react when Rupert eventually turns on him.  

Ted is more respected than he imagined and I was glad to see that.

Nate does not understand people and therefore cannot appreciate why people supported Ted when the panic attacks were revealed. He is clueless about mental health struggles (of others as well as his own). I pity him and hate him. Nate has a long, dark road ahead because Rupert will turn on him quickly and there will be no safety net. He is going to fail in a very public way. I'm undecided if and how Nate can be fully redeemed. It will require a great deal of introspection on his part. Is he capable of it?

Edited October 9, 2021 by Ellaria Sand

[Trillium]

Finally got to watch, and oh boy. Fuck you Nate. The BELIEVE sign is sacred and you destroyed it because your a petty little bitch that thinks everyone should worship every idea you ever had. But he’s about to fuck around and find out. Rupert didn’t hire him because he’s brilliant. He hired him because he can manipulate Nate. Oh Ted. I’m glad he was well enough to talk about his struggles to the press. But I really wanted Ted to lay into Nate Tyra Banks style. 

I do not get this weird take that Roy and Keely might break up because her career is taking off. That’s just so odd to me. They just need to find a balance and they will. That’s what real couples deal with all the time. She doesn’t need to figure out what she wants. She knows and is going for it. She’s crazy about Roy and he’s crazy about her. So why do they need to end? It’s so bizarre to me that people think they will. But we’ve seen too many shit couples on TV who end things when a simple conversation would resolve it. And the troupe of breaking up and then getting back together at the end is the fucking dumbest ever. They didn’t do the whole “two men told her they love her! On no! Who is she going to choose?!?!?” bullshit. So I don’t think they will do the women can only be bad ass bosses if they are single angle either. She can be a boss ass bitch and be an absolutely mushy romantic with Roy. You can do both. She wants both.  They’ll work it out.

 

Not sure what I’ll do with my time until next season. I know some felt it all over the place but really as a whole it was a set up for season 3. I like slow burns so it worked for me. 

[AstaCharles]

I hope Nick Mohammed gets an Emmy next year. He did great work . I was rewatching season one and just loving the hints, like when he said he didn't like baths because it made him wrinkly and he had a fear of aging. Also noticed  Sam giving puppy eyes to Rebecca .

Looking forward to Rupert Palpatine and Darth Nate next season.

The only way I can picture Nate trying to come out of the shitstorm he's created for himself is making an appointment with Dr Fieldstone. 

 

[juno]

I was thinking that one of the underlining themes of this series is redemption such as with Jamie and Rebecca. So I guess they made Nate as evil as possible in order to have him destroyed next season so good ole Saint Ted will save him.

[Zap]

So between us never seeing the investor and the foreshadowing of 'please never work for Rupert!' I assume the prediction that Keeley is in fact working for Rupert rings true?

[Kostgard]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:43 AM, Crs97 said:

I need to see Ted get angry and show it as being healthy for him.  I think he is a man who doesn’t think he deserves to enforce his own boundaries.  His going to Nate with “what can I learn” is very in character, but he is also allowed to let Nate know that he is responsible and culpable for his own actions.

Yes, this is part of why I wanted a stronger reaction from Ted. He has a right to feel angry/hurt/betrayed. Swallowing everything down is part of what lead to his issues.

On 10/8/2021 at 11:59 AM, Danny Franks said:

 

"It is our choices that show who we truly are." Well, isn't that a truth that we all need to accept? As well as being a double-headed axe into Nate's chest.

Nate is such a small man, in every sense of the word. Of course he didn't have the balls to own up to the leak and then when he does it comes in the form of an entitled whine because Ted spent time helping other people as well as him. He's twisted everything Ted has done for him and for Richmond as an insult to Nate the Great. It just goes to show that, no matter how much you give someone, it won't always be enough.

Nate just never grew up. While his hurt is real, he’s upset, basically, because daddy didn’t give him a gold star every day. And he didn’t talk to Ted about his hurt feelings, he tried to punish Ted for it. A functioning adult would understand that the team was struggling and if they were going to get promoted Ted had to take action, and that meant bringing Jamie and Roy on board. Ted still never showed favoritism for Roy. But Nate resented the competition. Then Ted admitted he had been having panic attacks. For a functioning adult, that’s an “Ah-ha” moment where you realize your boss has been distant because he’s been dealing with his own shit and you react with empathy. Nate did not. At all. Instead he immediately used that info to get back at Ted for the lack of gold stars. These are the actions of a child who breaks his brother’s toy because he didn’t play with him the other day. This is Amy March throwing Jo March’s manuscript in the fire because Jo was dismissive about Amy’s whining over wanting to go to the theater. The actions of a child who can’t process their emotions, not an adult. Nate has some serious arrested development going on. Ted can’t fix that. Nate needs professional help. He won’t seek it out.

The petty part of me is glad that Nate at least got some tiny daggers stuck into him, with Ted’s comment about how you are defined by your choices. With Roy letting him know he didn’t see him as a threat/competition. At all. And most directly with the way Beard regarded him with cold contempt all episode.

All that said, I enjoyed this storyline (despite how mad it made me) because it was someone being less than perfect who made bad, hurtful decisions and things built up instead of getting shrugged off, like too much else this season. I think that is my primary complaint - too much that seemed like it should have consequences/reactions just didn’t because the characters shrugged it off. It’s hard to get invested in these turns of event when you know it won’t mean much to the characters and they will all just shrug and move on.

But while I didn’t find the Rebecca/Sam storyline satisfying, I’m glad Sam took the “I choose me” route, because that was my main objection to the whole thing. Rebecca knows who she is and her place in the world. Sam is at a place in his life where he’s figuring that out, and I’m so glad that’s what Sam decided to do.

And I’m glad that Trent Crimm, Independent was grossed out by the story he wrote and got himself fired. He defined himself by that choice.

Roy and Keeley could be interesting because this is probably the first time Roy has really played a supporting role in someone else’s life as their career took off (being a sports star, he was probably always the supportee , not the supporter. That’s why being left out of the magazine spread hurt). But I think he’s willing to make that shift. He’s just gotta figure it out.

Looking back, I think my favorite thing about this season was the development of the friendship between Ted and Dr Sharon. Looking at where they started to  where they ended up is remarkable. And it took both of them showing a little vulnerability to make it happen.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Kostgard

[marcee]

The scene with Roy and the Diamond Dogs was epic. From the aforementioned "Oh my god. Oh my god," from Beard to Roy's discovery that, "Sometimes the fucking Diamond Dogs is just chatting about shit and no one has to fucking solve anything and nothing fucking changes?" Yep. That was just a brilliant scene and makes me happy when I need something to make me happy.

Fuck Nate.

Keeloy forever!

[watch2much]

agree Nick should get the emmy next year.  I really hated him at the end.  pity he didn't avail himself of Dr. Sharon's help when he could.  you could just see all the frustration with his father spew out at Ted. but he lacks any insight into it.  but he wants all the perks without doing what he needs to get respect...he wants the hot girlfriend, so tries to get Roy's, he wants to be coach so undermines Ted....

I forgot about the dog from the first episode so when they showed the puppy with the helmet I laughed out loud.  forgot the former dog was named Earl.  glad Dani got his joy back.

[mauledbypandas]

I found this season really uneven, but I'll still watch S3, the last season next year!  Still gave me something to look forward to coming out of Covid life.  Thanks, Ted Lasso!

 

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:01 AM, Gwendolyn said:

I mean this show is pretty good at foreshadowing, but do we think they're going to break up Roy and Keely, because that's what TV shows do? Like happy couples aren't allowed. There's good points here, that Roy has had his big break, but from him I'm getting a lot of insecurity vs being in a different place in his life. He's put Keely on a pedestal and he's seeing her take off and he's proud of her, but he's not sure of his place in her life as she rises. It's not up to Keely to reassure him, but he needs to work through it and realize she can be a boss *ss b*tch and in a relationship with him.

Nor did it seem like he was trying to undermine her with a trip, this has been his life since he was 12, the season ends you go on a holiday, Keely just reminded him, that's not everyone's schedule.

As for the rest, I love that both Jamie and Roy were mature enough to get past the funeral declaration of love.

That Rebecca was so proud of Keely, like Higgins said a great mentor expects you to move on.

I like how Roy undercut Nate by pointing out Jamie's a threat to his relationship with Keely, Nate was just a mistake. Burn!

Interesting that Trent Crimm, now Independent turned himself in to his bosses (especially as people pointed out in the UK it's accepted that journalists can reveal their sources). Trent and his glorious locks better be back next year!

I love how Sam realized he'd dodged a massive bullet with Akufo, especially when Akufo choked the dummy and then pretended to poo on it. Plus he did it for him and not Rebecca.

Nate. He hurt Ted with his rant about Ted abandoning him, but for the love of God dude, you knew the man was having panic attacks, clearly he was going through some stuff. Maybe it wasn't about you Nate. He didn't even let Ted respond. I liked how Beard told Ted he had to confront Nate for himself. I figure next season we'll see that play out.

Finally, the greyhound puppy with the helmet, awwww!

Absolutely EVERYTHING you said here!!!! So many favorite moments. And I loved Dani getting to have that moment of self-redemption and return to “Futbal is life” with the shot of the new mascot in the little helmet!!!!! 

Also … my unpopular opinion? I’d like to see Roy end up with Phoebe’s teacher! Not sure who I’m shipping Keeley with yet … maybe S3 will bring a new love interest for her?

Edited October 9, 2021 by PamelaMaeSnap
An additional thought!

[rejnel]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:43 AM, Crs97 said:

Beard is a delight.

"Horticulture, baby!"

I want Roy and Keeley to stay together, and I also don't worry about it because Bill Lawrence gave us Turk and Carla. A couple that gets together in the first season and has staying power can be magic, and he knows it. 

The Dr. Sharon stuff hasn't been my favorite this season, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Turtle Wexler]

5 hours ago, marcee said:

The scene with Roy and the Diamond Dogs was epic. From the aforementioned "Oh my god. Oh my god," from Beard to Roy's discovery that, "Sometimes the fucking Diamond Dogs is just chatting about shit and no one has to fucking solve anything and nothing fucking changes?" Yep. That was just a brilliant scene and makes me happy when I need something to make me happy.

I loved this, too, and it was a nice callback to Ted realizing the same thing (or close?) about girl talk.

[Turtle Wexler]

50 minutes ago, rejnel said:

 

On 10/8/2021 at 12:43 PM, Crs97 said:

Beard is a delight.

"Horticulture, baby!"

 

I love Beard’s enthusiasm for a wide range of things. It reminds me of his comment about axe-throwing earlier in the season, and his “Fuck yeah, the Gershwins!” last season. I’m sure there are other exclamations that I’m forgetting.

[OtterMommy]

9 hours ago, Trillium said:

I do not get this weird take that Roy and Keely might break up because her career is taking off. That’s just so odd to me. They just need to find a balance and they will. That’s what real couples deal with all the time. She doesn’t need to figure out what she wants. She knows and is going for it. She’s crazy about Roy and he’s crazy about her. So why do they need to end? It’s so bizarre to me that people think they will. But we’ve seen too many shit couples on TV who end things when a simple conversation would resolve it. And the troupe of breaking up and then getting back together at the end is the fucking dumbest ever. They didn’t do the whole “two men told her they love her! On no! Who is she going to choose?!?!?” bullshit. So I don’t think they will do the women can only be bad ass bosses if they are single angle either. She can be a boss ass bitch and be an absolutely mushy romantic with Roy. You can do both. She wants both.  They’ll work it out.

I agree with this.  Roy and Keeley have actually had a pretty dynamic relationship and every time they come to some sort of obstacle, they grow from it (it's fun...and strange, in a good way...to watch).  I think what we're seeing now is Roy having to deal with his own insecurities.  He thinks Keeley is awesome and powerful and he's not sure where he fits in.  He's a coach, but he's no longer a player--which is how he has always defined himself.  I think this played out in his reactions to Nate kissing Keeley and Jamie professing his love to her.  It could be argued that what Nate did was worse--it was a violation, whereas Jamie may have done a dick move, but without any ill intent.  But Nate was never a threat to Roy.  Even when Nate was the equipment manager and bullied by the players, Roy stood up for  him.  Jamie, however, is sort of the symbol of Roy's insecurities.  He's a young player at the top of his game who Roy might see as his replacement.  But, even when dealing with Jamie, Roy is growing--case in point when he (much to his own chagrin) forgave Jamie.

So, I expect to see Roy and Keeley working through their relationship next season, but I don't see the relationship coming to an end.  I also bet that Roy takes Phoebe on holiday with him because Phoebe is the one person, besides Keeley, who means anything to him.  And it would be beyond cute.

[Gwendolyn]

9 hours ago, Trillium said:

I do not get this weird take that Roy and Keely might break up because her career is taking off. That’s just so odd to me. They just need to find a balance and they will. That’s what real couples deal with all the time. She doesn’t need to figure out what she wants. She knows and is going for it. She’s crazy about Roy and he’s crazy about her. So why do they need to end? It’s so bizarre to me that people think they will. But we’ve seen too many shit couples on TV who end things when a simple conversation would resolve it.

At this point I think the writers are just playing on our fears of the tv trope that happy couples aren't interesting because Roy and Keeley are the definition of a happy couple, but like all couples they have real issues. Roy is starting his second career and learning how to have a relationship and deal with his 'feeling'. Man is a big ol' walking woobie, but won't admit it. Keeley has had her insecure moments too, like thinking Roy was leaving her after their first big fight when he was just a little too everywhere,  like recognizes like and they work on it.

I'm even less worried about the show breaking them up after reading this Deadline interview with Bill Lawrence, (hints about season 3 that could be viewed as spoilers): the last line of his reply about his favorite character moments this season and he talks about Keeley and Roy "deal with things as a couple the way I think real functional couples do, instead of just having issues and never speaking about them." and I think that's why we love them. Issue in one episode and they address it in the next one or so. Roy and Keeley talk to each other, that's so novel in a tv show.

And like Ted still gets a newspaper, of course Roy would have a travel agent that gets paper tickets (and anyone that has ever flown any place with sketchy wifi/cell tower coverage, will appreciate a paper ticket).

[pennben]

On 10/8/2021 at 11:43 AM, Crs97 said:

Ted and Michelle’s text exchange tells you exactly why their marriage was always doomed to fail.  She doesn’t understand him at all.

I took something entirely different from that exchange. We know they went to marriage counseling. We know Ted rejected that. We know he hides his real feelings behind a consistent upbeat/joking persona. 

She reads that he has had a panic attack.  Given time zone differences, she likely texted as soon as she heard. He responds to her concern with a silly knock-knock joke. She immediately recognizes him as closed off, so says he must be fine. He then slides past her concern to overstep to figure out if she ‘had late night/early morning (nudge-nudge)’. When he realized he overstepped where they were at with that response, he couldn’t even play that straight…..had to say ‘beeswax’.

We know he’s been working through/on stuff; she only sees closed off Ted not dealing with issues.  Unfair to say she doesn’t understand him, from what we know he never let her or anyone else in until now.  
Wonder if she saw the subsequent press conference…….

 

[SoMuchTV]

I don’t think I’ve seen it mentioned yet, but interesting that in the first part of the season they were trying to break their string of ties, but it was a tie that was a “victory” for them in the end. 

[watch2much]

16 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Absolutely EVERYTHING you said here!!!! So many favorite moments. And I loved Dani getting to have that moment of self-redemption and return to “Futbal is life” with the shot of the new mascot in the little helmet!!!!! 

Also … my unpopular opinion? I’d like to see Roy end up with Phoebe’s teacher! Not sure who I’m shipping Keeley with yet … maybe S3 will bring a new love interest for her?

I could see Roy with the teacher....for awhile.  at this point in his life he wants to vacation, eat tapas, etc. which given her profession he could do.  whereas Keeley wants to experience success in business.

I think Roy will realize that he wants more than the relationship with the teacher provides,  he still misses Keeley and her level of excitement in all things, and Keeley will get the success but realize that it lacks without Roy in her life and they will get back together.

[Thalia]

While I agree that in the Real World, Nate's resume does not lend itself to immediate promotion to head coach of what I gather is the equivalent to an NFL team.  But, first, its a TV show, and second, apparently Nate is a "wonder kid" when it comes to strategy.  (Was that apparent last season?  I can't remember.)  

But he will never be a successful coach, because there is only so long you can bully someone into doing your bidding.  Good coaches can also inspire, and Nate's go to strategy when something goes wrong is to blame, scream at, and demean someone else.  

Up thread someone said that they thought it was not believable that Rupert would try to hurt Richmond, given the fact that the Team has been shown as the only thing he really cares about.  OTOH, he's irrevocably lost it.  I see him as the type rather destroy the thing he loves than see it thrive with someone else.  

[AstaCharles]

I can't remember where I read it, but a poster commented that Rupert let Richmond be a drab team under George's management. It seems like Richmond was just a toy that he lossed to Rebecca.

[Maysie]

I believe Keeley and Roy will make it through this period of growing pains; I see it as a stage of growth that many couples experience after they’ve moved beyond the initial infatuation stage, when they really begin to see each other as people and individuals.

One thing really stood out for me and that was that I felt the show did a  wonderful job of clearly demonstrating exactly what Nate may be up against next year. Nate feels that he is qualified to be the big boss because he knows strategy and is quite good at it. But he underestimates the human element, probably in just about any endeavor, but particularly with regards to soccer. The final game showed us that the best strategy will fail if the people tasked with implementing it don’t really buy into it-believe it. Nate’s great strategy was failing bigly and it wasn’t until Ted gave the team agency to choose its path forward and determine whether they were onboard with that great strategy. The team needed motivation and to believe, so the strategy became secondary and the human element of coaching and teamwork won the game. 

 I was reminded of a drill sergeant when I saw the final shot of Nate. I don’t necessarily think he will fail spectacularly, because some people respond to that type of direction, but I expect that if nothing else, Nate has a rough ride ahead of him. What I hope is that however it plays out, he doesn’t earn a place back in Richmond. He betrayed coaches, the owner, the team and the fans with his behavior, and IMO, some things don’t warrant a second chance. Yes, he can be redeemed, but I will have a lot less respect for everyone involved if he ends up back with the diamond dogs. When Ted moves on, that is Roy’s team!

Also, someone mentioned the possibility that Rupert actually owns bantr and is the investor of Keeleys new firm. I really hope that’s not the case, but I can see where he would do something like that-poach Rebecca’s coach, grab her PR person and then pull the sponsorship. I hope not because it’s not necessary, but I can see it as a potential storyline.

Really a fabulous episode all the way around for the reasons already stated! Even Nate’s loathsome behavior was compelling and there were so many great moments to lighten the mood otherwise. Looking forward to next year.

[Gwendolyn]

So I rewatched the finale last night and had a thought, Nate is pissed at Ted for ignoring him, but outside of gifting Ted the photo, has Nate tried to reach out to Ted at all this season? Ted cares, but Ted is not a mind reader (Beard might be). When he found out about the panic attack, Nate didn't send a text or offer to meet up for a beer. He knows where Ted lives. Relationships take two people.

I know it's very hard for people to get out of their own heads and try and see another person's pov, and I'm actually horrible at this, but Nate needed to meet Ted half way. If he had asked Ted to meet for a beer and just talk, unless he had plans, Ted would have been there. We've seen Ted eating alone at the pub (when Jamie popped up), and playing pinball alone. Even though Ted is surrounded by people that care, we have been shown more than once, that when not working Ted is often alone. Beard has more of a life outside of work (chess, Jane, reading).

This makes what Nate did feel even more petty.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, Gwendolyn said:

So I rewatched the finale last night and had a thought, Nate is pissed at Ted for ignoring him, but outside of gifting Ted the photo, has Nate tried to reach out to Ted at all this season? Ted cares, but Ted is not a mind reader (Beard might be). When he found out about the panic attack, Nate didn't send a text or offer to meet up for a beer. He knows where Ted lives. Relationships take two people.

I know it's very hard for people to get out of their own heads and try and see another person's pov, and I'm actually horrible at this, but Nate needed to meet Ted half way. If he had asked Ted to meet for a beer and just talk, unless he had plans, Ted would have been there. We've seen Ted eating alone at the pub (when Jamie popped up), and playing pinball alone. Even though Ted is surrounded by people that care, we have been shown more than once, that when not working Ted is often alone. Beard has more of a life outside of work (chess, Jane, reading).

This makes what Nate did feel even more petty.

Great points and to add on… it is like Nate, regardless of his actual age, still sees himself as the juvenile (not sure if this is the right word) with Ted as the father figure and can’t relate to him as a fellow adult.  Their relationship is Ted’s responsibility to nurture, continually giving Nate affirmations, also Ted’s responsibility.    Nate wants the glory without the work or having to take responsibility for failure.    I think Ted was giving Nate continual credit for his False Nine play, which had Nate puffed up until it looked like it was failing and then he saw it as a way to put the blame on him.  

[Danny Franks]

On 10/10/2021 at 2:23 AM, pennben said:

I took something entirely different from that exchange. We know they went to marriage counseling. We know Ted rejected that. We know he hides his real feelings behind a consistent upbeat/joking persona. 

She reads that he has had a panic attack.  Given time zone differences, she likely texted as soon as she heard. He responds to her concern with a silly knock-knock joke. She immediately recognizes him as closed off, so says he must be fine. He then slides past her concern to overstep to figure out if she ‘had late night/early morning (nudge-nudge)’. When he realized he overstepped where they were at with that response, he couldn’t even play that straight…..had to say ‘beeswax’.

We know he’s been working through/on stuff; she only sees closed off Ted not dealing with issues.  Unfair to say she doesn’t understand him, from what we know he never let her or anyone else in until now.  
Wonder if she saw the subsequent press conference…….

Yeah, I took that text as an indicator that she understands him too well. That she wanted a more genuine response from him but the joke immediately told her that she wouldn't get it.

We all love Ted and his optimism and his jokes, but can you imagine living with someone who does that all the time as a defence mechanism? We saw how long it took him to open up to Sharon, how do we think he would have done with a marriage counsellor?

10 hours ago, Maysie said:

I was reminded of a drill sergeant when I saw the final shot of Nate. I don’t necessarily think he will fail spectacularly, because some people respond to that type of direction, but I expect that if nothing else, Nate has a rough ride ahead of him. What I hope is that however it plays out, he doesn’t earn a place back in Richmond. He betrayed coaches, the owner, the team and the fans with his behavior, and IMO, some things don’t warrant a second chance. Yes, he can be redeemed, but I will have a lot less respect for everyone involved if he ends up back with the diamond dogs. When Ted moves on, that is Roy’s team!

If the show approaches this realistically, Nate won't last any length of time as West Ham manager. He'll be dealing with big egos and men who are being paid a lot of money, and Nate is still an insecure little boy who loses it whenever he gets criticised.

You can't bully Premier League footballers, and you especially can't do it when you have no achievements to flaunt in their faces. Nate only criticised the Richmond players to their faces when Ted told him to, and when he attacked Colin in season two it was clear that Colin was a fairly weak character who could be bullied. And you can't build a coaching team when you can't win the respect of people.

Nate is obviously a Jose Mourinho analogue, with the greying hair, the all-black outfit and the 'tactical wunderkind' moniker, but Mourinho had something that Nate doesn't have - a very real charisma and ability to be funny and likable. And even for Mourinho, his tactics of demeaning players never worked in the long term. There's a reason he's left every management job he's had within three years - he loses the dressing room and loses the goodwill of a large enough portion of fans that the club fires him.

I don't want to see Nate redeemed because I think it paints too cosy a picture of the world, and I think we need to see that Ted's belief in being nice does not work with everyone. Sometimes people take that niceness and abuse it.

[Good Queen Jane]

On 10/9/2021 at 10:50 PM, SoMuchTV said:

I don’t think I’ve seen it mentioned yet, but interesting that in the first part of the season they were trying to break their string of ties, but it was a tie that was a “victory” for them in the end. 

And getting a tie last season would have saved the team from relegation. Ties (or draws, if you will) seem to be significant.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Good Queen Jane

[Kostgard]

15 hours ago, Gwendolyn said:

 

So I rewatched the finale last night and had a thought, Nate is pissed at Ted for ignoring him, but outside of gifting Ted the photo, has Nate tried to reach out to Ted at all this season? Ted cares, but Ted is not a mind reader (Beard might be). When he found out about the panic attack, Nate didn't send a text or offer to meet up for a beer. He knows where Ted lives. Relationships take two people.

 

 

13 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Great points and to add on… it is like Nate, regardless of his actual age, still sees himself as the juvenile (not sure if this is the right word) with Ted as the father figure and can’t relate to him as a fellow adult.  Their relationship is Ted’s responsibility to nurture, continually giving Nate affirmations, also Ted’s responsibility.    Nate wants the glory without the work or having to take responsibility for failure.    I think Ted was giving Nate continual credit for his False Nine play, which had Nate puffed up until it looked like it was failing and then he saw it as a way to put the blame on him.  

Totally - this is all about how Nate never grew up. He expected Ted to do all the work in the relationship because that’s what adults do for their non-adult children. It’s not Ted’s job to pat Nate on the head. He tried to help elevate him to adulthood - bought him grownup clothes, took him to grownup events, gave him a grown up job. But it was Nate’s job to take that ball and run with it. Instead he got mad that daddy stopped holding his hand. Ted maybe could have realized that he needed to be more explicit about the handoff for Nate to get it, but again…not his job. And again, Nate needs therapy to help him grow up. But I can’t see him ever seeking it out.

 

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Nate is obviously a Jose Mourinho analogue, with the greying hair, the all-black outfit and the 'tactical wunderkind' moniker, but Mourinho had something that Nate doesn't have - a very real charisma and ability to be funny and likable. And even for Mourinho, his tactics of demeaning players never worked in the long term. There's a reason he's left every management job he's had within three years - he loses the dressing room and loses the goodwill of a large enough portion of fans that the club fires him

That’s interesting that he seems to be based on a real person, because this is pretty much how I see things playing out for Nate. Rupert will only keep him around as long as he’s useful. He will lose the dressing room pretty quickly and if he can’t get his team to beat Richmond, Rupert will toss him aside. Then Nate will bounce around a few different clubs until he’s out completely and can’t get back in the sport or is only offered lower-level positions his ego won’t let him accept.

I really think if he can’t beat Richmond, Rupert will toss him aside. The new target for Rupert’s ire appears to be Ted. When Ted walked into the funeral a few episodes back, Rupert looked at him with pure loathing. I’m positive he hates Ted for winning over the Richmond team and fans, and still REALLY hates him for that one time he kicked his ass at darts. This now about tearing down Ted and not getting back at Rebecca.

[Trillium]

46 minutes ago, Kostgard said:

 

Totally - this is all about how Nate never grew up. He expected Ted to do all the work in the relationship because that’s what adults do for their non-adult children. It’s not Ted’s job to pat Nate on the head. He tried to help elevate him to adulthood - bought him grownup clothes, took him to grownup events, gave him a grown up job. But it was Nate’s job to take that ball and run with it. Instead he got mad that daddy stopped holding his hand. Ted maybe could have realized that he needed to be more explicit about the handoff for Nate to get it, but again…not his job. And again, Nate needs therapy to help him grow up. But I can’t see him ever seeking it out.

 

That’s interesting that he seems to be based on a real person, because this is pretty much how I see things playing out for Nate. Rupert will only keep him around as long as he’s useful. He will lose the dressing room pretty quickly and if he can’t get his team to beat Richmond, Rupert will toss him aside. Then Nate will bounce around a few different clubs until he’s out completely and can’t get back in the sport or is only offered lower-level positions his ego won’t let him accept.

I really think if he can’t beat Richmond, Rupert will toss him aside. The new target for Rupert’s ire appears to be Ted. When Ted walked into the funeral a few episodes back, Rupert looked at him with pure loathing. I’m positive he hates Ted for winning over the Richmond team and fans, and still REALLY hates him for that one time he kicked his ass at darts. This now about tearing down Ted and not getting back at Rebecca.

Rupert is going to exploit Nate and their mural hatred of Ted. I do think eventually Nate will have an epiphany and realize he’s been used, but I’m hoping it’s after much suffering. Not looking at a full Jamie style redemption, as it might be too late for Nate.  I’d like to see him realize he was wrong but also not be able to fix it and have to live with his shitty choices.  Some things you can’t take back. 
 

On other plots, I hope they still find a way for Rebecca and Keely to hang out. They are wonderful friends. But for some reason, I feel like the vagueness of who’s behind Bantr is going to become something. I hope not because it will crush Keely to have been used. There’s not much that happens in this show that isn’t a deliberate choice. I know some have thrown out that it’s Rupert, and ai could see that. Fucking Rebecca over anyway he can? Sounds about right. And if that’s the case, Roy will murder Rupert. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Trillium

[KittenPokerCheater]

For me, what is most unforgivable is that Nate brought up Ted’s son, and then tore the Believe sign.

I’m going to have to rewatch the season to see if I can find any clues about Nate trying to get Ted’s attention.  What I remember the most is  Nate being a jerk to the new Kit Man, and toss his power around.

The headbut between Roy and Jamie was awesome.  Love how it compared to the hug when they were in Manchester.  

Don’t break up Roy and Keeley!  Please.

[shoregirl]

I wonder why Nate went to Trent Crimm and not a  tabloid journalist. A Daily Mail type who sensationalize it more . Also even if Trent didnt give up his source they could figure it was Nate, Beard knew it. No one else in that meeting who even think about doing something like that. I wish Ted was angrier at him . Nate is in for a rude awakening if his team is nit good because he has not people skills and moment it goes wrong no one is going to have his back.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

For me, what is most unforgivable is that Nate brought up Ted’s son, and then tore the Believe sign.

I’m going to have to rewatch the season to see if I can find any clues about Nate trying to get Ted’s attention.  What I remember the most is  Nate being a jerk to the new Kit Man, and toss his power around.

The headbut between Roy and Jamie was awesome.  Love how it compared to the hug when they were in Manchester.  

Don’t break up Roy and Keeley!  Please.

I don’t actually think Nate tried to get Ted’s attention.   He continued to assign a parental authority figure role…where Ted would have full responsibility for maintaining their relationship including ensuring Nate got full credi for the good and was protected from the consequences of the bad (as an aside…wonder if this was his parents dynamic.  Daddy got mad and mom got protective)… while, at the same time, also resenting Ted for this very thing 
 

56 minutes ago, shoregirl said:

I wonder why Nate went to Trent Crimm and not a  tabloid journalist. A Daily Mail type who sensationalize it more . Also even if Trent didnt give up his source they could figure it was Nate, Beard knew it. No one else in that meeting who even think about doing something like that. I wish Ted was angrier at him . Nate is in for a rude awakening if his team is nit good because he has not people skills and moment it goes wrong no one is going to have his back.

I think Ted, after his father’s death) takes on everyone’s happiness as his responsibility…that’s why he wasn’t angrier.  He feel like he should have known… and if Nate loses it and the worst happens, Ted will have a breakdown.  

[Domestic Assassin]

2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I’m going to have to rewatch the season to see if I can find any clues about Nate trying to get Ted’s attention.

The only thing I can think of Nate trying to get Ted's attention is when he leaked the panic attack (resorting to getting negative attention). And Ted's refusing to acknowledge it for as long as he did only enraged him further.  Ted's issues with his father kept him from confronting Nate, but that was a big mistake. IMO it came off as passive aggressive in the scene when Ted apologized to the team for hiding the truth from them.  Beard was right, it's not healthy for Ted to keep it in. He needs to find a way to deal with his anger constructively instead of just suppressing it.

[AngieBee1]

In various interview Nick Mohammed has pointed out times that support Nate's feelings of abandonment or of being ignored. He points out one like after tearing into Colin he asks Beard if he told Ted because Nate is so focused on Ted's input and guidance. 

[Capricasix]

I forget the episode, but at one point (I think it was the first game that Roy was an assistant coach), Richmond either scored a goal or won a game. The coaching staff all cheered from the sidelines, and Ted walked right in front of Nate to congratulate Roy, and it was evident by the expression on Nate’s face that he was hurt. So he wasn’t actively seeking Ted’s approval, but you could see that he wished Ted would have paid him some attention as well.

[braziliangirl]

2 hours ago, Capricasix said:

I forget the episode, but at one point (I think it was the first game that Roy was an assistant coach), Richmond either scored a goal or won a game. The coaching staff all cheered from the sidelines, and Ted walked right in front of Nate to congratulate Roy, and it was evident by the expression on Nate’s face that he was hurt. So he wasn’t actively seeking Ted’s approval, but you could see that he wished Ted would have paid him some attention as well.

I think it was the episode about the Roy Kent effect (The SIgnal). They started a winning streak. It's the same one where Ted has his panic attack. Jamie makes the goal (after the sign to be a asshole) and Ted passes through Nate to hug Roy saying it was a nice call. Nate seems hurt. After that Ted starts having his panic attack and leaves the field. Nate takes control of things and then say the "wonder kid" (which was the wrong word and a bit embarrassing) thing when interviewed. 

IMHO, Nate starting having problems with Ted because of Roy. He's so jealous of Roy and has so much resentment that he's being incapable of thinking. Indeed, jealousy reared its ugly head. 

I'm conflicted about Nate redemption. I want him to feel remorse or something. And I do wanna see Ted being able to feel angry. Preferably toward Rupert. 

[Schweedie]

5 hours ago, braziliangirl said:

MHO, Nate starting having problems with Ted because of Roy. He's so jealous of Roy and has so much resentment that he's being incapable of thinking. Indeed, jealousy reared its ugly head. 

Agree, Nate's ire definitely escalated when Roy came along. If Ted's the father whose approval he wants, Roy is the cool, gifted older sibling who outshines him and steals the attention - as soon as Roy walks onto the pitch with them at the end of ep 5 you can see how displeased he is. (I enjoyed the contrast between Roy looking super sharp in his black suit next to Nate looking awkward with his big puffy jacket over his own suit that he was so proud of.) We know he must have a sibling since he has a niece, so maybe that's a similar situation with his family, too. Did we ever see Ted comment on Nate being the one who won them the match against Tottenham (as unlikely as I still find that whole thing)? Because even though Roy compliments him on it, I'm guessing that's not as valuable to him as Ted's praise would've been.

5 hours ago, braziliangirl said:

I'm conflicted about Nate redemption. I want him to feel remorse or something. And I do wanna see Ted being able to feel angry. Preferably toward Rupert. 

If there's a show I would trust to pull off a good redemption arc, it's this one. But yeah, I'd also like to see Ted be able to express anger. Besides the time where he yelled at Nate last season for breaking curfew at the hotel, which he immediately apologised for the next day since it didn't actually have anything to do with Nate, I find it interesting that the only time we've seen him actually upset with someone because of something they did was when Rebecca had let Man City recall Jamie. ETA - oh, and of course that time when Jamie claimed he was hurt and couldn't train with them. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Schweedie

[Cornhusker12]

Since so many fans ran wild with Sudeikis's "Empire Strikes Back" reference and were nervously waiting for death and destruction in the main characters' storylines every week, does that make season 3 the "Return of the Jedi" season? Who will be the Ewoks in this situation? The new Greyhound mascot finalists?

[Jsage]

On 10/11/2021 at 11:24 AM, shoregirl said:

I wonder why Nate went to Trent Crimm and not a  tabloid journalist. A Daily Mail type who sensationalize it more .

I think Nate may have gone to Trent because he knew that Ted and Trent had developed a level of respect for each other. Nate may have thought of it as sticking the knife in a little further, even more of a betrayal because it came from Trent. Of course, he had no idea that Trent would be such a stand-up guy in the end.

[FnkyChkn34]

On 10/11/2021 at 11:24 AM, shoregirl said:

I wonder why Nate went to Trent Crimm and not a  tabloid journalist. A Daily Mail type who sensationalize it more . 

Trent Crimm is respected and reports the truth.  Nate wanted to hurt Ted, and no one would believe a tabloid.  (Or even if they did, Keeley could spin it that "it's just a tabloid, don't believe that gossip.")

[Trillium]

1 hour ago, Cornhusker12 said:

Since so many fans ran wild with Sudeikis's "Empire Strikes Back" reference and were nervously waiting for death and destruction in the main characters' storylines every week, does that make season 3 the "Return of the Jedi" season? Who will be the Ewoks in this situation? The new Greyhound mascot finalists?

The Richmond fans can be the jubilant Ewoks when they win the whole fucking thing. Mae, the pub crew. There’s no doubt in my mind they don’t end the series victoriously. Sure it’s predictable but really the only satisfying ending, IMO. 

[Maysie]

On 10/11/2021 at 10:23 PM, braziliangirl said:

'm conflicted about Nate redemption. I want him to feel remorse or something. And I do wanna see Ted being able to feel angry. Preferably toward Rupert. 

I want Ted’s anger directed toward the person it belongs to: Nate. Look, I hate Rupert. He’s mean, shallow and totally self-serving, but apart from just being a general asshole to Ted, he hasn’t done anything to Ted. I’m pretty sure Rupert dislikes and doesn’t respect Ted, but Rupert doesn’t respect anyone, as far as I’ve seen. His nastiness is directed squarely at Rebecca, and anyone else impacted is collateral damage. Rebecca has been pissed, hurt, tried to get revenge, etc., all of which has fed Ruper’s ego, IMO. The best thing she can do is ignore him. She needs to deal with whatever fallout comes her way from Rupert’s behavior, but to respond to him will just egg him on.

I would like to see Ted address Nate at some point. I don’t think Ted is wired for “angry,” though I’m sure it’s an emotion he feels and experiences, so I can’t imagine that we’ll ever see him really lay into Nate (even though that would be oh so satisfying!). However I feel like I need to see a very candid, no jokes, somber Ted tell Nate, in unflinching terms, exactly what Ted felt about his behavior and it’s impact on him. Losing your shit can feel good, but sometimes it’s more effective to look someone in the eye and say “you did this to me and this is how it was hurtful and how it impacted me.” It’s harder to brush someone off when they aren’t yelling at you, but are instead rational and calm. 

[Crs97]

2 hours ago, Maysie said:

His nastiness is directed squarely at Rebecca, and anyone else impacted is collateral damage. Rebecca has been pissed, hurt, tried to get revenge, etc., all of which has fed Ruper’s ego, IMO.

I am hoping that by the final episode Rebecca reacts to Rupert’s taunts like Sam reacted to the billionaire’s tantrum: with perplexed amusement.

[greencajun]

On 10/9/2021 at 6:54 PM, Turtle Wexler said:

I love Beard’s enthusiasm for a wide range of things. It reminds me of his comment about axe-throwing earlier in the season, and his “Fuck yeah, the Gershwins!” last season. I’m sure there are other exclamations that I’m forgetting.

How did Beard know Nate was the leaker?

[MargeGunderson]

29 minutes ago, greencajun said:

How did Beard know Nate was the leaker?

Process of elimination. The people who knew were Rebecca, Higgins, Beard, Roy, Dr Sharon, Roy, and Nate. No on else would have ever said a word about it to Trent Crimm (Independent)

[Trillium]

39 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Process of elimination. The people who knew were Rebecca, Higgins, Beard, Roy, Dr Sharon, Roy, and Nate. No on else would have ever said a word about it to Trent Crimm (Independent)

Yep. Add in Nate complaining about not getting credit for his ideas, not hard to figure out. I think Roy had figured it out too. There was a moment he walks in the office and he and Beard exchanged glances and Beard just rolls his eyes. I think they were going to say something then Ted shows up. 
 

Side note, I could watch a whole episode of just Beard and Roy where neither says a word, but you can read their facial expressions. 

[FnkyChkn34]

4 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

Process of elimination. The people who knew were Rebecca, Higgins, Beard, Roy, Dr Sharon, Roy, and Nate. No on else would have ever said a word about it to Trent Crimm (Independent)

Exactly. To spell it out, Dr. Sharon would lose her license if she said anything. Roy doesn't give two craps about gossip so why would he say anything. Even if he told Keeley, she wouldn't have said anything. Beard is loyal to Ted, as are Rebecca and Higgins both loyal to Ted and the team. Definitely no one else but Nate (the Great Asshole) would have said anything. 

The only thing that would have surprised me is if it was Sassy or someone completely random - but it's pretty obvious that no one else knew. (And she wouldn't do that either.) 

[Turtle Wexler]

4 hours ago, Trillium said:

Side note, I could watch a whole episode of just Beard and Roy where neither says a word, but you can read their facial expressions. 

Yes! Like in--sorry; it's been a very busy and stressful few weeks, so my brain is a bit fuzzy--Keeley walked into the office and said that she had an advertising opportunity for a coach, and would either Beard or Roy like to help her out and they just looked at her, and she said, "Fuck you both(?)" and walked out, and Beard said something about how it was amazing that they didn't have to say a word, and Roy said that she understands them. (And then Nate walked in and said that he was going to be doing this advertising gig.) 

[Schweedie]

24 minutes ago, Turtle Wexler said:

Keeley walked into the office and said that she had an advertising opportunity for a coach, and would either Beard or Roy like to help her out and they just looked at her, and she said, "Fuck you both(?)" and walked out, and Beard said something about how it was amazing that they didn't have to say a word, and Roy said that she understands them. (And then Nate walked in and said that he was going to be doing this advertising gig.) 

That reminds me, I don't think we ever found out what the spokesperson gig was or if Nate actually ended up doing it - I was curious about that!

[Capricasix]

I thought you all might be interested in seeing a spectacular bit of football/soccer by Alphonso Davies of the Canadian men’s national team, playing Panama last night in a qualifier for the World Cup. Davies also plays for the German team Bayern Munich. 

 

[MicheleinPhilly]

On 10/11/2021 at 11:23 PM, braziliangirl said:

IMHO, Nate starting having problems with Ted because of Roy. He's so jealous of Roy and has so much resentment that he's being incapable of thinking. Indeed, jealousy reared its ugly head. 

I'm conflicted about Nate redemption. I want him to feel remorse or something. And I do wanna see Ted being able to feel angry. Preferably toward Rupert. 

I just binged both seasons in a matter of days so maybe it's seeing all of his awfulness condensed into a few hours or maybe it's becuase I am a Scorpio, but I have no interest in a redemption arc for Nate. Yes, I know he is a main character and my desire is obviously unrealistic but I loathe him with a vengeance and wish he would drown in the Thames.