S02.E12: Inverting the Pyramid of Success

[Welshman in Ca]

16 hours ago, norcalgal said:

I only watch the Premier League, not Championship.  Does the Championship not use VAR?

I’m not certain but I think the teams that end up in 3rd and 4th place in the Championship play a 2-leg playoff to see who gets promoted to the Premier League…?

The championship does not use VAR at the present time & is unlikely to due to the costs involved. What it does use is goal line technology so that the ref knows when the ball has crossed the line.

Top 2 in the championship are promoted and then 3rd plays 6th and 4th plays 5th over 2 legs, the winners of these games then play a 1 game playoff and the winner is promoted along with 1st & 2nd. This also happens in leagues 1 & 2 which are the next 2 leagues & after that is non league football from which one team is promoted into league 2 and the bottom team in league 2 is demoted to non league football.

My team (Cardiff City) that I have supported for over 40 years are in the championship and ESPN+ has some of their games on as well as others in the leagues below premiership.

Hope that makes sense & helps.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Welshman in Ca

[norcalgal]

5 hours ago, Welshman in Ca said:

The championship does not use VAR at the present time & is unlikely to due to the costs involved. What it does use is goal line technology so that the ref knows when the ball has crossed the line.

Top 2 in the championship are promoted and then 3rd plays 6th and 4th plays 5th over 2 legs, the winners of these games then play a 1 game playoff and the winner is promoted along with 1st & 2nd. This also happens in leagues 1 & 2 which are the next 2 leagues & after that is non league football from which one team is promoted into league 2 and the bottom team in league 2 is demoted to non league football.

My team (Cardiff City) that I have supported for over 40 years are in the championship and ESPN+ has some of their games on as well as others in the leagues below premiership.

Hope that makes sense & helps.

Thanks for this.

P.S.  I hope Wales qualifies for the World Cup. I'd like Gareth Bale et al. to experience World Cup footie.

 

[Athena5217]

On 12/9/2021 at 4:52 PM, ahisma said:

The official rule of offside is that there needs to be two defenders (goalkeeper counts as one) between the attacker and the goal at the moment the ball is passed, not when it is received. So yes, you can dash past the defenders to get to a pass. The linesmen for your travel soccer games are terrible, unless there are special kid rules.

(No penalty called if other team was the one who passed it, if you are even with but not past the defender, if you are just standing offside but don’t get involved in the play, or during throw-in, corner kick, or penalty kick.)

I appreciate why Ted finds this confusing. American football rules can be confusing too, but it’s what he grew up with.

I liked the parallels between Keeley and Nate’s professional journeys. Keeley becomes besties with her mentor and leaves on good terms while Nate burns bridges.  I will reserve judgment on whether Nate deserves to be redeemed until next season.

[quirkygal]

Nate: What in the Dr. Evil villain henchman heck was that up close and personal with the camera?

I couldn't help it - I laughed like a loon. I'm not sure that the character can be redeemed but I'm curious to see how they try it.

Edited May 5, 2022 by quirkygal
spelling

[LADreamr]

I've re-watched both seasons so many times, I can't believe I missed, in the last shot of season two, when Nate is staring into the camera, with his now totally gray hair, you actually see the light go out of his eyes.  It's very creepy, once you see it.  

[snarktini]

Having rewatched, I honestly don't find Nate's arc believable. They've written in his growing insecurities and lashing out, his cruelty and pettiness. I see that. But the explosion at the end and tearing up the Believe sign...I don't buy THIS level of anger and entitlement. They all "believe" in his play, stick with his play, and win with his play, and that's when he tears up the sign and explodes? I don't get it. It doesn't feel like a real person to me.

It pains me to see Keeley not take two weeks with Roy. She's launching a business that she will be putting first for the foreseeable future, so a small break before starting would have made sense for both of them. However, they wrote it so she was already a week in -- and presumably has deals/contacts already in the pipeline she can't disappear on --so it's baked into the story that the ship has sailed. The bigger issue to me is she doesn't WANT to. As the founder of a company that barely exists yet, she could have waited a month to dig in. She just doesn't want to. She'd rather get to work. That's her choice, but if I were Roy I'd wonder where I fit.

Roy and Beard being communication soul mates cracks me up. They get each other.

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, snarktini said:

They all "believe" in his play, stick with his play, and win with his play, and that's when he tears up the sign and explodes? I don't get it. It doesn't feel like a real person to me.

I think it’s because he publicly wanted them to abandon it because he told them to their faces they weren’t good enough to follow his plan.  Once they won he couldn’t really take credit for it and celebrate his own brilliance because they all knew he was trying to change strategies midstream.  The players might mention him in their interviews, but they will heap praise on Roy and Ted for trusting them enough to let them decide.  He didn’t Believe and rather than admit that he has decided it’s everyone else’s fault and Believe is stupid.

Also, I think the ex has already gotten into his head with all the ways he is being held back by Ted and how much he deserves to be head coach.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

I think it’s because he publicly wanted them to abandon it because he told them to their faces they weren’t good enough to follow his plan.  Once they won he couldn’t really take credit for it and celebrate his own brilliance because they all knew he was trying to change strategies midstream.  The players might mention him in their interviews, but they will heap praise on Roy and Ted for trusting them enough to let them decide.  He didn’t Believe and rather than admit that he has decided it’s everyone else’s fault and Believe is stupid.

Also, I think the ex has already gotten into his head with all the ways he is being held back by Ted and how much he deserves to be head coach.

I think his insecurities made him believe they kept calling it his play when it didn’t seem to be working so they could blame him when it failed.  Ultimately it didn’t fail, but he has worked himself into a lather that they were hoping for him to fail because now that Roy is coaching he isn’t needed any more.   So, in the end, he left them before they could fire him…and now he is dedicated to avenging the slight that happened only in his head…egged on by Rupert, of course, who will eventually really turn on him. 

[LADreamr]

23 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

So, in the end, he left them before they could fire him…and now he is dedicated to avenging the slight that happened only in his head…egged on by Rupert, of course, who will eventually really turn on him. 

Exactly.  And now that he has him, he will treat him probably much like his father treats him, which is what he was projecting on to Ted.  He ran away from where it wasn't happening, to be in a position where it - one way or another - most definitely will.

[violetwaves]

On 12/2/2021 at 4:30 PM, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

I kept thinking of Roy reading the book while Keeley was trying to work.  Imagine six weeks of that. 

Other than when Roy was exclaiming out loud about the book I didn’t understand what the issue was with him reading in the same room as her.

[anna0852]

He had done exactly as she'd asked and she found it a huge turn-on 😁

Keeley is easily distracted by sexy Roy

Edited September 5, 2022 by anna0852

[ahisma]

11 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Keeley is easily distracted by sexy Roy

So say we all…

[Flarking Schnit]

Can't deny it's a sticky wicket, but not completely abandoning a Nate redemption since the writers did pretty masterful redemption arcs for Rebecca and Jaime. Could have put icing on the cake if they threw in a line of Jaime being one of the league leaders in assists, both as a silent middle finger to his Dad and a further example that Ted's lesson of making the extra pass got through to him.  

[shapeshifter]

Whew!
For me, this is the first show that has equaled Breaking Bad with regards to writing, casting, characterization, cohesiveness, quality, etc.

Except, I do have to wonder if Nate was always going to break bad, or if that was added between seasons 1 & 2. I haven't yet read interviews because I wanted to watch the series unspoiled, and just got access to it recently. 

I just really, really want to repair the torn Believe poster, but even though I could make at least as good as new, it wouldn't repair Ted's despair about having been accused of hurting Nate the way Ted's own father's suicide hurt him. 
Likely Rupert managed to steal Dr. Sharon's notes regarding Ted's  father and feed them to Nate, right?
But, if so, Ted probably figured that out, right?
And likely Rupert's money paid for Nate's suit, right? 

Biggest fear: Billionaire Akufo will harm Sam's family.

I am so glad that, unlike in Breaking Bad, in Ted Lasso good will triumph over evil in a heart warming way.

[ahisma]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I do have to wonder if Nate was always going to break bad, or if that was added between seasons 1 & 2.

Interesting question. The seeds were planted in s1 that Nate could be a spiteful, petty tyrant. But overall his storyline looked like “ignored low-level worker gets recognized.” If the show hadn’t been renewed, it would have ended on that heartwarming note.

It’s hard to say whether the writers were conscious of the potential Nate story from the start or whether they dug around to look for conflict to deepen the storylines for s2-3 (Nate’s spite and Ted’s relentless cheer masking his pain, on top of more Rupert machinations). 

[Domestic Assassin]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Except, I do have to wonder if Nate was always going to break bad, or if that was added between seasons 1 & 2. I haven't yet read interviews because I wanted to watch the series unspoiled, and just got access to it recently. 

 

Here's an interview with Nick Mohammed you might be interested in. He says he was told early on in season one that the character may go in this direction, and an interesting bit on Nate's motives in the gala episode in light of the direction the story was going.

https://www.vulture.com/article/nick-mohammed-ted-lasso-season-2-nate-interview.html

[Paloma]

On 11/2/2021 at 4:29 PM, Schweedie said:

On 11/2/2021 at 4:08 PM, Juneau Gal said:

That’s a really good question and I guess my answer is: just like in real life there are subtle nuances in character. I never felt Rebecca delighted in what she was doing, as far as potential hurt to people other than Rupert. With Nate I feel deep down cruelty; he finds glee in sticking the knife in. 
Isn’t it nice that these two actors could inspire these emotions in the viewer?! Well done, both of them. 

 

On 11/2/2021 at 4:18 PM, MicheleinPhilly said:

Yes. I think you make a good point @Schweedie but this is essentially what it boils down to for me too. Yes, Rebecca was professionally petty (and let's face it, Rupert was a deserving "victim") whereas I just found Nate to be personally cruel. And taking things out on people that had done nothing to deserve it. And contrary to Rebecca, he just seemed to get worse and worse as the series progressed. 

But again, I'm a Scorpio so I will hold grudges to my grave. 😁

Interesting and fair answers, thanks, guys! @MicheleinPhilly, I gotta reference the bolded part, though - to be fair, taking things out on people who'd done nothing to deserve is literally exactly what Rebecca did, heh. ETA - (I think the reason why I still hold a tiny grudge from last season is that she never actually apologised to the *team*. She apologised to Ted for hiring him to fail and he forgave her, but her actions had consequences for other people, too.)

I hear you on their progression being different, though, and I think that's probably a key point in why people's reactions to Nate are so strong. Rebecca started at the bottom and the only way was up, and where she ended up was being brilliant, but with Nate we actually get to see the downward trajectory which makes it worse.

Husband and I came to this series late and just finished the second season, and I am finding this discussion of Nate vs. Rebecca really interesting, in part because it never occurred to me to question their relative wrongdoings until I saw the comments here. I wonder if the difference in opinions could be due in part to viewers' personal experiences. In my case, I have no interest in professional sports and did not see Rebecca's first season actions regarding the team as personal cruelty (though the impact of those actions could certainly be harmful to some). I also had empathy for her as a woman who was cheated on and humiliated by her husband (as happened to me decades ago when I was in my 20s). So I could understand that her need to get back at him could temporarily blind her to the harm her actions caused to others.

While I initially had some empathy for Nate when he was eager to be respected and help the team, I lost that empathy when he started being cruel to others (directly cruel, as opposed to Rebecca's actions that were not intended to cause personal harm to people other than her ex). And the reason I felt that way toward Nate was that my mother was like him in the sense that she was treated badly by her father when she was a child and thought that she deserved a better life than she had as an adult (not that she had a bad life as an adult, but she seemed to feel that my father was not good enough for her and that she should have married a rich man who could have given her the lifestyle she wanted). She took out her resentments against family and friends who did not deserve it, including me, and she was "famous" for writing poison-pen letters to people whom she felt had wronged her. Even though everyone told me to ignore her letters and not let them get to me, her words were still very painful and I carried them with me until and for some time after she died. So when Nate said such cruel (and wrong) things, it reminded me of the deep pain that words can inflict. Maybe he should be entitled to a redemption arc, but it would be very hard for me to accept. 

Sorry for the TMI!

[Natalie25]

On 3/20/2023 at 12:06 PM, Paloma said:

In my case, I have no interest in professional sports and did not see Rebecca's first season actions regarding the team as personal cruelty (though the impact of those actions could certainly be harmful to some)....While I initially had some empathy for Nate when he was eager to be respected and help the team, I lost that empathy when he started being cruel to others (directly cruel, as opposed to Rebecca's actions that were not intended to cause personal harm to people other than her ex).

I think this is a great distinction. Rebecca's end goal was to hurt Rupert, but her way of doing so was essentially to destroy a business; not great obviously, but no one would have been personally hurt by it. In fact, Rebecca basically succeeds (she confesses too late to turn them around from relegation) but the team is stronger than ever. And I think most importantly, as you mention she was never personally cruel to anyone (Higgins aside, which I think is a different situation since he did directly and intentionally hurt her by hiding the affairs). She was always polite and kind to Ted and everyone else she interacted with.

Nate isn't only cruel to Ted but to anyone he thinks is beneath him, including Colin, Will, the West Ham players. He completely ignores the woman who greets him "Good morning." He's generally unpleasant vs. taking his anger out on a specific person/situation.

[Schweedie]

7 hours ago, Natalie25 said:

Rebecca's end goal was to hurt Rupert, but her way of doing so was essentially to destroy a business; not great obviously, but no one would have been personally hurt by it. 

...

She was always polite and kind to Ted and everyone else she interacted with.

To their faces, yes. But she literally tried to orchestrate a tabloid scandal making people think Ted and Keeley were an item, to upset Jamie and in turn screw things up for the team. A lot of people would've been hurt if that had gone as she wanted it to go.

[Crs97]

4 hours ago, Schweedie said:

Rebecca's end goal was to hurt Rupert, but her way of doing so was essentially to destroy a business; not great obviously, but no one would have been personally hurt by it. 

The people who would lose their jobs after the business failed would be personally hurt. I would say Rebecca was thoughtless about the collateral damage in her quest to hurt Rupert while Nate deliberately and cowardly punched down.