S01.E07: Sacrament

[FlyingEgret]

Enjoyed the show. I became suspicious of Ryan after John was arrested in the first 10 minutes - just knew it had to be someone else!

I am confused about the gun though... I am pretty sure that Mr. Carroll said the gun was missing for awhile and just reappeared; but Ryan said he took and returned the gun the same night; so Mr. Carroll should never have known it was gone. Did I miss something?

[Snapdragon]

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

 

John is the biological father.  He'd have the right to decide where his child goes.  DJ's parents could try to fight for custody but they'd likely lose as the courts are pretty stuck to biology.  John can assign custody to whoever he wants.

I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure that while John might be the biological father, he's not the legal father.  That would be Dylan.  Dylan's on the birth certificate, has been paying child support and has an established custody agreement.  It depends on the state but most likely, Dylan would have had a very good legal case for keeping DJ since he had an established parent/child relationship and John was a child molester that covered up a murder.  I'm also pretty sure that since John hasn't been acting as DJ's father in any capacity, he'd have to sue for custody and I don't see that going well for him.

They had a case on Oprah years ago that was somewhat similar.  A guy's wife died shortly after giving birth and a little after their son's first birthday, he finds out that the kid is a result of an affair his wife had.  The bio dad sued for custody but (as of the airing of the show, when the kid was about 5, I think) because of the established relationship between the legal father and the child, the court awarded him primary custody with the bio dad only having visitation rights.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Snapdragon

[BingeyKohan]

One final bit of praise I’ll give this show: the makeup job on Jean Smart. She was very believably flushed in the scene where she and the priest are drinking Manhattans. And even in the pizza parlor scene you can see she has some red spotting on her face that is part of her complexion that probably intensifies with alcohol.

[TV Anonymous]

While I do not mean my post to be a criticism of U.S. politics, but I think this show has subtlety highlighted one of the hottest issues for the last decades: firearms control. Many of the main problems in this show could have been avoided if the United States do not let regular population to have access to firearms that easily.

• Ryan would not be able to steal that pistol and killed Erin.
• Patrick would not be able to shoot Dylan.
• Wayne Potts would not kill Zabel.
• John would not 'almost kill' Billy.

[DavidJSnyder]

44 minutes ago, FlyingEgret said:

I am confused about the gun though... I am pretty sure that Mr. Carroll said the gun was missing for awhile and just reappeared; but Ryan said he took and returned the gun the same night; so Mr. Carroll should never have known it was gone. Did I miss something?

Mr Carroll noticed it missing during the night Ryan had it after hearing a noise outside (presumably Ryan taking it). He only recently returned to the shed and noticed it returned.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think another red herring that they just didn't address is the thing that made me suspect John was the father in the first place--and that was Frank claiming he barely knew Erin (his student) when he was seen taking diapers to her. It made Mare run the DNA test which showed that Frank was not the father.  If he knew John were the father, the lying and the helping would make sense.  But since it seems as if he didn't know, it doesn't.

Frank does not have to know who DJ's true father is, or he can think that it is Dylan. All he has to know is that Eris is a single mom whose boyfriend and dad are douchebags and either unwilling or unable to provide basic necessities like diapers and food in sufficient quantities.

He could either not be lying - you can decide to help a student you barely know. Or he could have just not wanted to get into him helping out.

6 hours ago, gatopretoNYC said:

So the envelope of money Erin had hidden, that Dylan took when they burned her diaries - where did that money come from?

She had been saving her prostitution money up. 

6 hours ago, Lily H said:

I couldn't help feeling unsatisfied by they way they ended this show. I wasn't buying Ryan's claims about it being an accident. We saw in other scenes that he's an accomplished liar. He stole a loaded gun and lay in wait for the girl he blamed (instead of his sleazebag father!). That's premeditation. And Lori belongs in jail, instead of flapping her self-righteous yap at Mare for doing her job. I guess in Easttown, you get away with obstruction of justice and accessory to murder if you're an old friend of a cop. And somehow Dylan has miraculously transformed from gun-wielding thug who cheered on the beating of his ex-girlfriend into a benevolent dispenser of cash for D.J.

"Accomplished liar" seems a little strong. He let Lori think that the affair was with Sandra rather than Erin....and that's about it. 

If we take his voiceover at its word, he never intended to actually shoot Erin, just scare her. And the scene as it played out -- which by genre conventions is what really happened -- confirms that it was an accident.

It is undercut by the notion that presumably the cop would have kept the safety on the gun on when it was stored, and Ryan would have had to know to take it off. But maybe the cop was just sloppy with safety.

3 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

Something else I’m confused about: one of the things that makes Mare rethink the John scenario is Frank talking about how normal he seemed all night, even at the end of it when he drove them home. But in the flashbacks it looked like Ryan called him at the house party, not even the bar afterward, so he still knew all night (certainly by the time he drove F&F home) that his son had killed Erin, right? 

I think the call at the house party was Erin from a burner phone to his real phone. Ryan overheard this, and that is why he went to confront Erin. Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember a scene with Ryan calling his dad or uncle to inform them what happened. 

20 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

While I do not mean my post to be a criticism of U.S. politics, but I think this show has subtlety highlighted one of the hottest issues for the last decades: firearms control. Many of the main problems in this show could have been avoided if the United States do not let regular population to have access to firearms that easily.

• Ryan would not be able to steal that pistol and killed Erin.
• Patrick would not be able to shoot Dylan.
• Wayne Potts would not kill Zabel.
• John would not 'almost kill' Billy.

In a world with good gun control, almost all those killings or attempted killings probably still would have happened.

It would be more implausible for Ryan to accidentally kill Erin, because he's so young and apparently did not have murderous intent. But a struggle, slip and her falling the wrong way still could have happened.

Patrick still would have had plenty of opportunities to kill Dylan with his bare hands, a rock, a knife, etc. 

Wayne similarly could have attacked Zabel and killed him. 

And John would have slipped Billy pills or done something else to fake a suicide. 

Guns just made things easier for the killers/would-be killers. 

[Affogato]

6 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

The highly upsetting male fridging of Colin Zebal was beyond unfortunate. 

Guy Pearce seems like wasted casting though. I kept telling myself he has to have a huge secret for him to be cast in that role. 

A man killed to forward a woman’s emotional journey. An entirely appropriate use of fridging. tropes aren’t bad.
 

I liked him too.wouldn’t have worked if we didn’t like him. 
 

How many movies and shows have female characters, love inrerests, that are essentially irrelevant. Even if they live. Often played by known actresses. Big movie, big name. Just the wife or girlfriend. Sometimes tropes get averted  

this show was all about tropes  and often averting them  

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Affogato
Phone finishing my thoughts again

[pasdetrois]

Underwhelmed by the last episode. Given the caliber of the acting, the show could have focused on Erin's murder and Kate's personal journey alone. Leave off the other missing teens, the writer, the endless red herrings, and Siobhan's extended story. More Julianne and Jean.

If they were planning on a second season, they shoulda kept Zabel. But I'm content with just one season.

 

[Tippi]

2 minutes ago, Affogato said:

A man killed to forward a woman’s emotional journey. An entirely appropriate use of fridging. tropes aren’t bad.
 

I liked him too.
 

How many movies and shows have female characters, love inrerests, that are essentially irrelevant. Even if they live. Often played by known actresses. Big movie, big name. Just the wife or girlfriend. Sorry metines tropes get averted  

 

I have been thinking about this too.  The female characters in M of E are strong, vivid, caring--not perfect, but very real.  For me, the male characters are mostly weak, shady, or nondescript.  Was it intentional that John and Frank looked so much alike--utterly forgettable?  Throw Billy and Kenny in their as slimmer versions.  John in particular showed no charm or dimension.  I wonder if this part would have had more shading if played by Guy Pearce? 

I thought the show lost some steam after killing off Zabel.  I would still have wanted Mare to solve the case, but I would have liked for Zabel to have worked on it with her.  I wouldn't want to see a romantic relationship, but a friendship would have been nice.  Two other actors I thought brought something a little extra to their portrayals--Dylan and Deacon Mark.  I thought they did a good job with what they had to work with.

I did like the endings for Helen and Siobhan.  I had to look carefully at the car Siobhan drove off in, as I was getting Claire Fisher's' Prius vibes in that scene.

 

[preeya]

1 hour ago, FlyingEgret said:

Enjoyed the show. I became suspicious of Ryan after John was arrested in the first 10 minutes - just knew it had to be someone else!

I am confused about the gun though... I am pretty sure that Mr. Carroll said the gun was missing for awhile and just reappeared; but Ryan said he took and returned the gun the same night; so Mr. Carroll should never have known it was gone. Did I miss something?

Here is the dialogue that took place between Mr. Carroll & Mare about the missing gun. I took it from the subtitles:

So you'd like to report a missing gun?

No, no.  It's not missing anymore.

So it wasn't stolen?

Do you remember the morning you came over
for my granddaughter and the prowler?

Uh-huh.
Well, I'd gone out to the shed and got the gun,
so I know I had it then.
Okay.

But that night I heard a noise out in the shed,
and I went out to get it, and it was gone.

- But now it's back?
- Yes.

I went out the other day to get some tools
and there it was.

You know... I don't know what I'm saying.

Okay.
Uh, what kind of gun is it?

It's a Colt Detective Special.

Colt Detective Special?

Yeah. When I retired from the Ridley force,
they... they let me keep it.

Mind if I take a look at the gun, Mr. Carroll?

No. Not at all.

I used to keep it in the attic,
but the grandkids got up there
messing around, so...
I locked it in here.

In the workbench, in that drawer.

The strange thing is there's two rounds missing.

- Who has access to this shed?
- No one.
I mean, just me and the kid who cuts the lawn.

Who cuts the lawn?

Ryan Ross.
 

[ByaNose]

It is interesting that in the end everyone else’s family fell apart around Mare as hers was improving somewhat. I guess that’s what the therapy part was about. I was even surprised to see Mare and her ex-husband and new wife yucking it up. I do wish Zabel could have survived his untimely death. Obviously, in his profession people die but maybe just have him remain alive but unable to work. 

1 minute ago, ByaNose said:

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by ByaNose

[izabella]

44 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

If we take his voiceover at its word, he never intended to actually shoot Erin, just scare her. And the scene as it played out -- which by genre conventions is what really happened -- confirms that it was an accident.

Well, the first shot when Erin was trying to take the gun was an accident.  The second shot, the one that killed Erin, was deliberate.  He didn't have to take that shot.

Mare should take Lori to a good therapist.  She needs one badly, and likely would for years.  As will DJ once he learns of his true parentage and everything.

Edited May 31, 2021 by izabella

[paigow]

Maybe the episode title is also a reminder that Siobhan has to pass through Sacramento 

[econ07]

What will Ryan's baby talk sound like towards DJ?  "Who killed your mommy ... who killed your mommy ... I did ... I did" (in cloyingly baby talk voice).

[marybennet]

‘I didn’t mean to kill them, just to scare them’ is a tv cliche by now and never entirely believable to me. If you’re taking a gun, killing is a thing that might happen. That’s why it’s not smart to take a gun. And Ryan’s rage was evident and powerful, even if he’s also a sometimes sweet kid. I hope he’s got a good therapist in that facility.

[HeyThere83]

3 hours ago, Dminches said:

 

Kate Winslet is such an amazing actress.  

 

Definitely. My favorite role I have seen her in, by far.

I wish Mare were real, I want to hang out with her! 😁

[Empress1]

5 minutes ago, marybennet said:

‘I didn’t mean to kill them, just to scare them’ is a tv cliche by now and never entirely believable to me. If you’re taking a gun, killing is a thing that might happen. That’s why it’s not smart to take a gun. 

I believe gun safety dictates that you never point your gun at someone or something unless you intend to shoot. I can buy that a kid wouldn’t know or care about that, though.

2 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure that while John might be the biological father, he's not the legal father.  That would be Dylan.  Dylan's on the birth certificate, has been paying child support and has an established custody agreement.  It depends on the state but most likely, Dylan would have had a very good legal case for keeping DJ since he had an established parent/child relationship and John was a child molester that covered up a murder.  I'm also pretty sure that since John hasn't be acting as DJ's father in any capacity, he'd have to sue for custody and I don't see that going well for him.

I assume John is going to do some time, so I wouldn’t think there could be any custody for him because he’ll be locked up. But the bio vs legal question is interesting - I know there have been instances where rapists have sued for custody of the children that have resulted from rape, and I think the laws on that vary by state. 

[Krissy S.]

2 hours ago, FlyingEgret said:

Enjoyed the show. I became suspicious of Ryan after John was arrested in the first 10 minutes - just knew it had to be someone else!

I am confused about the gun though... I am pretty sure that Mr. Carroll said the gun was missing for awhile and just reappeared; but Ryan said he took and returned the gun the same night; so Mr. Carroll should never have known it was gone. Did I miss something?

I came here with the same question. I can't get over the idea that Mr. Carroll knew his gun was missing and could break the case for Mare. A big hole in my eyes.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Eh.

[Affogato]

16 minutes ago, econ07 said:

What will Ryan's baby talk sound like towards DJ?  "Who killed your mommy ... who killed your mommy ... I did ... I did" (in cloyingly baby talk voice).

 

16 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I believe gun safety dictates that you never point your gun at someone or something unless you intend to shoot. I can buy that a kid wouldn’t know or care about that, though.

I assume John is going to do some time, so I wouldn’t think there could be any custody for him because he’ll be locked up. But the bio vs legal question is interesting - I know there have been instances where rapists have sued for custody of the children that have resulted from rape, and I think the laws on that vary by state. 

If there is a second season the trial can be in the background. Raising DJ with Ryan is a horrifying thought.  You wouldn’t want it to happen. It would likely be ok but the first response is not to go there. And ryan with that reminder in frint of him every day. Let the healing begin. 

[blixie]

I have a lot of problems with the final twist of Ryan being the killer, as I simply don't buy this 12/13 year old boy, carried out this many steps to "accidentally" murdering his cousin: observe dad flipping out, check hi phone, pretend to be his dad and text to meet her in the park, has time to pick up gun, fight with Erin, kill her, move her body, return the gun, go home, call dad, who then has time to clean up after child commits murder but didn't have time to make sure kid was home in bed? All on a fucking child's BIKE come on that had to take 3 hours at least and no one ever checked on the kid being back at home or still at Franks.

But I absolutely get that the symmetry of it helped Mare get to where they wanted her to be: able to face that attic. Not incredibly believable as a resolution to the murder, but 100% satisfying in the emotional relationships of the town, and seeing Mare slowly heal and help her friend through the same. I just don't think symmetry was the only way to get her there and it would  have been fine to just leave it at John as the culprit.

I am also still annoyed at all the Dylan stuff, there was no good reason he was threatening Erin with a gun nor why he'd callously say she'd end up just like Erin. And I totes agree that there is no way DJ should have ended up with Lori or in that family, I mean Dylan himself sucks, but I still think his parents provided a better chance for the kid than the tattered remnants of the Ross family.

[JeanJean]

8 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

Guy Pearce seems like wasted casting though. I kept telling myself he has to have a huge secret for him to be cast in that role. 

The actor who was supposed to play that part dropped out (pretty last-minute, I think). Guy P did it as a favor to Kate; they're friends.

[Ellaria]

18 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Raising DJ with Ryan is a horrifying thought.  You wouldn’t want it to happen. It would likely be ok but the first response is not to go there. And ryan with that reminder in frint of him every day. Let the healing begin. 

Nor would I want Lori raising DJ. I'm not suggesting that she would hurt him. I think it would be extraordinarily difficult to raise that child with the complex emotions that she would be feeling.

39 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I assume John is going to do some time, so I wouldn’t think there could be any custody for him because he’ll be locked up. But the bio vs legal question is interesting - I know there have been instances where rapists have sued for custody of the children that have resulted from rape, and I think the laws on that vary by state. 

I am not an expert on the legalities of this type of issue. Common sense tells me that DJ would be better off in a loving home far away from Easttown where he will not need to deal with his family's crimes on a daily basis. Let him be an adult and make the choice to learn about his past.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Ellaria Sand

[blixie]

Quote

but most likely, Dylan would have had a very good legal case for keeping DJ since he had an established parent/child relationship and John was a child molester that covered up a murder. 

Yeah but I think most likely that is Easttown being Easttown, Dylan's parents didn't want to fight Lori for custody, seeing her more as victim like themselves. Still weird to me that everyone's assumption is that this would be ideal or even make a lick of sense, or that she'd immediately be award DJ any more than Carrie was likely to be immediately awarded Drew, with or w/o a relapse.

[Empress1]

14 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Raising DJ with Ryan is a horrifying thought.  You wouldn’t want it to happen. It would likely be ok but the first response is not to go there.

I ... don't know that it would be OK. Or I guess the question is, OK for whom? Ryan killed DJ's mother. Raising DJ alongside Ryan is like, well, sure, your big brother killed your mom, but don't worry about that - it feels really dismissive of DJ, to me. I know he's just a baby now and has no concept of any of this, but he eventually will, and I don't know how you just eat dinner across from the person who killed your mother every night. This has the potential to really fuck DJ up.

The show made a point of illustrating how damaging it is to bury grief, and it just feels to me like that's what Lori and Ryan are doing. Everybody in that family, including DJ when he's old enough, needs extensive therapy. (Lori also needs to divorce John, but she doesn't seem inclined to do that.)

[Laurawithcats]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The thing that really annoyed me about both Ryan and Lori was how they both placed blame on the women in the situation rather than the actual guilty parties.

Instead of blaming his married father for fucking around on his mom, Ryan blamed Erin and went to the trouble of stealing a gun to threaten her. Somehow the man who was putting his penis in a minor was not responsible for his own actions at all.

Same goes for Lori. She blamed Mare, who was just doing her job and getting to the truth of what actually happened, instead of the people who were responsible for this: her husband for fucking his own teenage cousin and then making his son keep it a secret or the son who was waving a stolen gun around.

When Mare told Ryan that he would be okay in juvie, I initially thought, "Really?" Then I remembered that he's pretty handy with a cafeteria tray so he'll probably be fine.

One thing that made me laugh was the conversation between Jess and the police chief. He asked why she and Dylan burned Erin's journals. Jess said they were afraid Erin had written something about who DJ's real father was and that they didn't want anyone to find that information because it would mean Dylan's parents losing custody of DJ. Jess specifically told the chief she thought that Erin would have wanted DJ to remain with Dylan's parents and she was trying to honor her friend's wishes, which fine. But she was trying to honor her friend's wish so much that as soon as she found the picture of Erin with John, she handed it over to the police which defeated the purpose of burning Erin's diaries in the first place.

I know Lori thinks she's doing the right thing by taking custody of DJ, but I really hope that she allows Dylan's parents to continue seeing DJ. They clearly love DJ regardless of the lack of blood ties.

WHO HE IS RELATED TO!

 

They definitely have him on having sex with a minor since DJ exists and the court can do math. They could also charge him with obstruction of justice, accessory to murder, tampering with evidence, corruption of a minor (once for Ryan, once for Erin), attempted murder (for Billy), brandishing a weapon, etc.

John is just terrible. He cheated on his wife five years ago with a married woman. Then he cheated on his wife with an underage girl who he's related to, got her pregnant, refused to pay for his child's surgery, made his son keep the affair a secret, made his wife promise not to tell her best friend about any of it, told his brother to say that he had killed his cousin/abuse victim, then took his brother to a remote cabin with the intent to kill him so that he could blame his own brother for sleeping with and murdering their teenage cousin. He showed absolutely no remorse for ANY of it. And then, like the coward that he is, begged Mare to kill him so that he wouldn't have to face the consequences of his actions.

What cracked me up about that whole situation was the fact that Erin, a girl who was a teenager in the year 2021, took a selfie of the adult relative she was sleeping with and then printed the photo and put it in her diary. I know kids do print some pictures but just the idea that she walked to CVS to print this photo so she could hide it really took me out of the moment.

Because he knew that if people found out he had been fucking his teenage cousin, his life was over. If he killed Billy and then told everyone that Billy was DJ's father, then John would still get to keep his life the way it was. He was being selfish for the zillionth time in his life. Billy was right in the previous episode when he said, "You made a mess of your life cause you couldn't keep your dick in your fucking pants. Now you clean it up. I'm holding him accountable, pop. Someone needs to for once in his goddamn life."

UC Berkeley because Anne (the college DJ who Siobhan started seeing) had a media professor her freshman year who got a position at Cal. After watching Siobhan's documentary about her brother, Anne recommended that Siobhan talk to the professor and consider applying to Berkeley. I was just glad that Siobhan was able to get the hell out of her small town and start over somewhere new. The only thing that surprised me was that Mare and Frank let their only child drive all the way across the country by herself. I thought one of them would drive with her, help her get settled, and then fly back.

Yes, God forbid that a tv show not have 100% heterosexual relationships. Aside from DJ/Erin/John and Carrie/Mare's son, a lot of the character arcs would have been exactly the same if they had been involved in LGBTQIA relationships. The memo from 2021 is that there are a lot of non-straight people in this world so having three gay characters (two of whom were tertiary) on a show that had a cast of over 30 people is not exactly a stretch of the imagination for representing reality.

Wanted to only quote your last paragraph but was having a hard time figuring out how. Did it yesterday, just not today. So responding this way...

Your last paragraph..Chef's Kiss....

[hoodooznoodooz]

A philanderer usually locks his phone so his son can’t text the cousin his dad’s molesting.

[pasdetrois]

Won't Ryan be in custody for a very long time? Assuming he isn't charged as an adult, he'll be housed in juvenile facilities to await trial and serve his time.

[blixie]

Quote

A philanderer usually locks his phone so his son can’t text the cousin his dad’s molesting.

I could 100% see a child already having easy access to a gun behaving impulsively on bad information to do this, but that's not what we saw, this was a highly choreographed plot *in the dead of night* to confront your father's abuse victim, this show has been so  emotionally honest and authentic  but when Ryan explained his long bike riding manslaughter adventure with< "I knew about Erin and my dads *relationship*" I was like no 13 year old kid says this. No 13 year old kid does this. Luckily the actors are so fucking good the emotional resonance of such incredible twist paid off enough to mostly not have it leave me feeling like they dropped the ball.

[raven]

5 minutes ago, blixie said:

this was a highly choreographed plot *in the dead of night* to confront your father's abuse victim, this show has been so  emotionally honest and authentic  but when Ryan explained his long bike riding manslaughter adventure

And after all of that, the kid keeps his cool and presence of mind to return the gun to its original location!  This was why I was kind of hoping they were going with budding psychopath rather than impulsive shooting - it didn't seem impulsive to me.   He had time to cool off as he road his bike to the park.   Premeditation and coverup - most adults don't do that well with their crimes. 

[Dminches]

10 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

Won't Ryan be in custody for a very long time? Assuming he isn't charged as an adult, he'll be housed in juvenile facilities to await trial and serve his time.

I don’t know what he was charged with and how it played out but wasn’t John going to be paroled after a year?  Why would Ryan be incarcerated for a longer period of time?

 

[whiporee]

There's also this: a former cop left his commemorative revolver in a barely locked shed, without a lock on the case or a lock on the trigger, with the gun FULLY LOADED. Who the hell does that? I've got a rifle in my shop (in case of bears, mountain lions or zombie apocalypses) that I keep with a lock and the ammo in a completely different place. With the crime in the town, that's basically asking for someone to take his weapon and use it in a crime. 

Too many easy fixes for a show that tried to be so much more. I've read a lot of people saying this was Mare's story, but they didn't even do the work for her. She transformed almost overnight -- going from planting drugs on Carrie to taking Drew to her house without trepidation, from avoiding a party altogether to having celebratory drinks with Faye and Frank and patting Faye's shoulder as they goof about Frank's wardrobe. They showed her change but they never showed why.

And for a story that worked hard to show how stuck people here, Siobahn got out very easily. Brianna's entire future was shot by the video, but she makes a movie and gets invited to Cal-Berkley (that was a major screw up. A whole country of less known, less unlikely schools to choose from)? We never saw any interaction between Mare and Dawn's daughter -- and their idea of giving her a future was giving her a fixed-up druggie's house? Plus, maybe some therapy for the girl who had been a caged sex slave for a year? Or does a mom haircut makes it all better?

Again, wanted to be much more than it was. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

So why does Lori love John so much?

[Soobs]

I guess there's no lawyers in Easttown. Everybody just spills their guts to the cops.

Since the boy is a minor and the murder was manslaughter he would be out by the time he's 18. Pretty inappropriate that the baby is being raised with the person who murdered his mom. Maybe the second season could be about how that plays out. Or they could tell us more about Mare's father. He would go away when he was depressed. Was there more to that story than crashing on a friend's couch until he found his smile?

[raven]

2 minutes ago, Dminches said:

wasn’t John going to be paroled after a year?

That was Billy who was going to be paroled in the summer.  They didn't mention when/if John would get out.

My guess is Ryan would be locked up until he was 18.

[whiporee]

3 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

So why does Lori love John so much?

He's the inheritor of Pod's magic penis. 

Or girls are dumb. Take your pick. That's what the show was showing us. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by whiporee

[Dminches]

1 minute ago, raven said:

That was Billy who was going to be paroled in the summer.  They didn't mention when/if John would get out.

My guess is Ryan would be locked up until he was 18.

I missed that one.  I guess Billy was charged with covering up the crime.  Makes sense.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

If they were planning on a second season, they shoulda kept Zabel. But I'm content with just one season.

You're so right.  That's sad.

[Empress1]

Just now, raven said:

My guess is Ryan would be locked up until he was 18.

Mine too. If he isn't charged as an adult, I would assume he'd be in juvie until he turns 18. If he were charged as an adult, it would be worse. 

2 minutes ago, Soobs said:

I guess there's no lawyers in Easttown. Everybody just spills their guts to the cops.

Brianna was straight trash but I did like that she lawyered up immediately.

4 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

So why does Lori love John so much?

This is what happens when people are socialized to believe that they're nothing without a relationship. Like, it's one thing if your husband cheats once. I can see trying to forgive that. But then he not only cheats again, but his cheating is the sexual abuse of his teenage blood relative. Like, you trust him to be around other teenage female members of your family? This is someone you want to spend time with? This is who you want teaching your son how to be a man? I know there's pressure for "the family to stay together," but sometimes you just have to break up and cut people off.

Did John grow up with Lori and Mare? If so, I assume her loyalty is at least partly out of longevity - she may not know who she is without him. She needs to learn, though.

[raven]

8 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Brianna was straight trash but I did like that she lawyered up immediately.

Dylan did as well.  I guess he really was just driving around and smoking pot the night of the murder.

I don't know how loyal Lori will be to John.  We don't get anything on their relationship post-everything that happened.  She took DJ in as he asked (which shouldn't have happened but I won't digress) but there's no indication that she has or hasn't filed for divorce.   I hope she does.  He is a scumbag of the highest order.

She thought John was cheating with Sandra again until he told her what really happened and she agreed to place the blame on Billy (not very nice, Lori!) and deceive Mare.  Everything Lori did was to protect Ryan. 

[peachmangosteen]

Wow, big pile of meh lol. This was easily the worst episode of the season. In general, I think it was bad enough that I would tell people who were waiting until the end to binge it to just not bother tbh.

UO but I thought the Lori actress was really bad. I guess she was going for numb or something but she just came off completely devoid of anything most of the time. And the scene in the car after Ryan confessed was cringeworthy. It didn’t have even a hint of realness to me.

I was hoping the Ryan actor would be better but I’ll cut him some slack since he’s a child and it would have been hard for even an adult to really make that work imo.

The John actor was also terrible but maybe John being a completely stupid and remorseless asshole who barely seemed to give a shit about any of what happened was on purpose.

I’m sorry, but not one person saying anything about Erin being John’s cousin really blew my mind.

I was happy to see that the goodness I was seeing in Dylan was actually there. I think they went overboard with the scenes they used to make him a red herring though so in the end it didn’t really work. If they’d had just been a bit more subtle it would have worked.

[Penman61]

I'm starting to think that the storytelling imperatives of a whodunit and a character study are incompatible.

[izabella]

23 minutes ago, Soobs said:

Since the boy is a minor and the murder was manslaughter he would be out by the time he's 18. Pretty inappropriate that the baby is being raised with the person who murdered his mom. Maybe the second season could be about how that plays out. Or they could tell us more about Mare's father. He would go away when he was depressed. Was there more to that story than crashing on a friend's couch until he found his smile?

Her father ultimately could not find his smile and committed suicide, as did her son.  And that depression runs in families since Mere has signs of it too.

[Affogato]

8 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

I'm starting to think that the storytelling imperatives of a whodunit and a character study are incompatible.

The only mysteries I’ve liked are more character study than mystery. 

[TV Anonymous]

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In a world with good gun control, almost all those killings or attempted killings probably still would have happened.

It would be more implausible for Ryan to accidentally kill Erin, because he's so young and apparently did not have murderous intent. But a struggle, slip and her falling the wrong way still could have happened.

If he had no access to firearms, Ryan would have to be physical with Erin. He would have to stab, cut, bludgeon, or strike her. He would not have been able to make the threats from the comfort of 5 m buffer from Erin. Would a boy like him be willing to get close and personal to get his message across? Maybe he would, but I would also posit that the likelihood is lower.

[aghst]

You could say the seeds were sown when they kept showing Ryan looking at things and reacting to them.  Then the cafeteria attack with the tray.

Still a reach that a young teen would feel like he has to "protect" his family by taking matters into his own hands or in this case, brandishing a gun at his older cousin.

Besides all the logistical obstacles he had to overcome, didn't they say the park where Erin was shot was too far away for her to have rode her bicycle there, but Ryan could get out there, shoot the girl and make it back?

It would be more believable if he shot his father for stepping out on mom again.

[Passing Strange]

For me, this show hit its "holy shit, they went there!" high point with the death of Zabel. Everything after wasn't going to have the same punch. In the after show one of the creators was just delighted with the huge, surprise twist ending. Yeah, no. When you arrest the murderer at the beginning of the last episode we know he's not really the murderer. Since Mare had already arrested most of Easttown, there were few suspects left and all the bits that were included to help us believe Mare was correct to suspect Ryan also tipped us off.

Some other headscratchers for me:

In all the time Mare had known the Carrolls, it apparently never came up that Mr. Carroll had been on the Ridley force.

When Mare is going after a grown man, who may have a gun, she's fine doing it by herself. When it's an unarmed 13-year-old, she needs multiple officers, none of whom wind up doing much to apprehend the kid.

If you're not the parent of a child, you need some sort of legal standing to do things like consenting to medical care or enrolling the kid in school. Maybe Dylan's parents handed DJ over to Lori because she'd have easier access to John for consent. Really, though, they should have continued with their petition. Issues like this are decided based on the best interests of the child. As has been said, Dylan's name was on the birth certificate, which has legal weight, he and his family had an established relationship with DJ, and none of them had killed DJ's mother. They seem better suited than then the lying, blaming wife of a rapist and accessory to murder.

Even with the sloppy bits I enjoyed the show. I would have enjoyed it more if I could have spent less time thinking wait, what?

Edited May 31, 2021 by Passing Strange

[eelpout]

3 hours ago, JeanJean said:

The actor who was supposed to play that part dropped out (pretty last-minute, I think). Guy P did it as a favor to Kate; they're friends.

pretty sure it was Ben Miles. 

[Ellaria]

45 minutes ago, Passing Strange said:

When Mare is going after a grown man, who may have a gun, she's fine doing it by herself. When it's an unarmed 13-year-old, she needs multiple officers, none of whom wind up doing much to apprehend the kid.

Thanks - I thought the same thing. She had a fleet of armed officers coming to arrest Ryan. Was it for show? And when she is headed after John and Billy - knowing that either of them may act rashly out of desperation - she turns off the phone and proceeds solo. Sigh...

[shoetingstar]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

A man killed to forward a woman’s emotional journey. An entirely appropriate use of fridging. tropes aren’t bad.
 

I liked him too.wouldn’t have worked if we didn’t like him. 
 

How many movies and shows have female characters, love inrerests, that are essentially irrelevant. Even if they live. Often played by known actresses. Big movie, big name. Just the wife or girlfriend. Sometimes tropes get averted  

this show was all about tropes  and often averting them  

 

I should have called it Reverse!Fridging lol. That's what I like about the writing of Mare, she was written with aspects that could have been for a male lead. It somehow didn't come off forced or projected from a dubious place- (like see! equal opportunity! yay girl power) - which I appreciate.

But yes, it's very common aka a trope. It's cut and paste at this point. There are other things that can trigger a change or give motivation to a character, etc. However, TV/film writers are going for an immediate impact in the shortest amount of time and the death of a sympathetic characters is the default.