S01.E07: Sacrament

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, freddi said:

Yes, on the checklist of traits of a good father -- fought back the impulse to smother the baby to stop the crying.  

Actually it is. Children are going to be frustrating. Child abuse is common. For Dylan putting down the pillow and comforting the boy was huge. 

[MamaMax]

17 hours ago, Affogato said:

And Catholic. 

speaking of --- was the Church they all attended supposed to be Catholic? I have never in 50+ years of active Catholicism known a Deacon who wore a roman collar and lived in the rectory

 

[h2ogirl]

I really wanted to see Siobhan's documentary. Thought it could've been a lovely cathartic moment for Mare to see it somehow - stumble across it on Siobhan's computer or maybe have her teacher showcase a few student films in the evening or something. Oh well. 

[Affogato]

On 5/31/2021 at 10:39 AM, ByaNose said:

 I do wish Zabel could have survived his untimely death  

 

They usually come back wrong. 
 

season 2? The zombie case. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Affogato

[TVMovieBuff]

I wanted to see this from the first sight of Kate Winslet in a new HBO series. That is all it takes. I saved all 7 eps, watched them all in 3 days. That is the way to see it. 

Nothing new can be said about how good all the actors were. Terrific. The show is great. 

Evan Peters gets an extra mention for that scene in the bar, where he's drunk, talking to Mare. He did The Face. I have seen plenty of drunks, never saw an actor do The Face in an acting performance. 

The Scrunched-Up Drunk Face. One of the least attractive (among many) facial expressions a drunk can have, and Evan Did It! It wasn't overdone, just for a second. So realistic. He gets kudos from me. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by TVMovieBuff

[SomeTameGazelle]

 

On 5/31/2021 at 8:39 AM, Empress1 said:

Why did Siobhan drive across the country? Surely a detective can afford a plane ticket?

Because she wants to be able to continue to use her car while she is living in California?

On 5/31/2021 at 6:30 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What cracked me up about that whole situation was the fact that Erin, a girl who was a teenager in the year 2021, took a selfie of the adult relative she was sleeping with and then printed the photo and put it in her diary. I know kids do print some pictures but just the idea that she walked to CVS to print this photo so she could hide it really took me out of the moment.

You can print quite reasonable quality photos on home printers, so she wouldn't necessarily have had to take it to a store, but it doesn't make sense that she would want a physical copy that anyone might find instead of wanting to keep it on her phone where she could access it whenever she wanted. The photo itself was kind of odd as well -- instead of being a truly incriminating picture of a sex act, we see him sleeping and her posing in front of him. I have watched too many soaps not to be suspicious of whether it could have been a setup by someone with a blackmail plan. I think it would have been much better as evidence to have had Jess secretly take a photo of a page in the journal (which is what I thought had happened initially anyway) and/or have a photo with John awake and conscious  in an incriminating position on Erin's phone. 

I was a little bothered that Lori used the phrase "my whole family" without any apparent regard for Moira as part of her family. I wish that Lori had either let Dylan's family keep DJ or that when Dylan came over with the cash she had offered to let them visit under certain conditions. And likewise I wish that Mare had told Carrie that while she couldn't have custody she would be able to visit and see Drew.

[JeanJean]

First Sunday without "Mare." I'm not happy.

[ChicagoMe]

The one thing I didn't understand was why Dylan was so damn angry all the time. His parents seemed nice and it appeared that he had a decent home. Usually kids this angry have been abused. Was there ever an explanation for his behavior?

[TVMovieBuff]

8 hours ago, ChicagoMe said:

The one thing I didn't understand was why Dylan was so damn angry all the time. His parents seemed nice and it appeared that he had a decent home. Usually kids this angry have been abused. Was there ever an explanation for his behavior?

Teen angst and a phase. 

Someone refresh me, what is the explanation for Dylan being missing from bed, as Brianna said, on the night of Erin's murder?

[grawlix]

Dylan being Dylan was never covered.

My theory is that his father had a affair with his underage teen cousin which resulted in his dad fathering a child and Dylan kept his secret.  Dylan wasn't able to kill his father's underage teen cousin lover and thus he acts like the way he does.  We have already seen evidence of this in Easttown.

[sugarbaker design]

On 5/31/2021 at 12:53 AM, Laurawithcats said:

John is a sociopath..

Would a sociopath sacrifice his freedom for his son?  John is the worst kind of piece of shit, and easily the biggest villain in this drama, but I don't think sociopath is accurate.

I loved the ending.  It was clear Mare was using everything, her job, taking care of her family, and relationships to not deal with the trauma of the death of her son (and the mandatory, but not valid, guilt).  Everyone in Easttown seemed to be traumatized by something or someone.  Now that Mare seems to dealing with the core issue, that would free her up to be in a relationship, if she really wants one.

It was mentioned several times that John and Erin had an incestuous relationship, but I don't recall it being explained specifically.  How were they related?

[raven]

4 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Someone refresh me, what is the explanation for Dylan being missing from bed, as Brianna said, on the night of Erin's murder?

He told Mare he drove around, smoking weed.  It sounded like a lie but I guess was the truth.

29 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

How were they related?

John and his brother Billy are cousins of Erin's dad, Kenny, and so are cousins of Erin.

It was told to us when Mare went to see Kenny to break the news of Erin's death; she took John and Billy with her.

[sugarbaker design]

1 hour ago, raven said:

John and his brother Billy are cousins of Erin's dad, Kenny, and so are cousins of Erin.

It was told to us when Mare went to see Kenny to break the news of Erin's death; she took John and Billy with her.

Thanks, I must've missed it.

[Armchair Critic]

Why did they spend so much time on the daughter and her dating situation? At first I thought she was involved in the murder since she got so much screen time.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Armchair Critic said:

Why did they spend so much time on the daughter and her dating situation? At first I thought she was involved in the murder since she got so much screen time.

Because she was intimately involved with the traumatic moment surrounding thee discovery of kevin’s suicide. Like two separate melodies siobhans and Mares responses to the tragedy start apparently apart, grow closer, eventually resolve  so that both may move on. 
 

actually it was a really excellent structural part of the show. I thought. 

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

Because she was intimately involved with the traumatic moment surrounding thee discovery of kevin’s suicide. Like two separate melodies siobhans and Mares responses to the tragedy start apparently apart, grow closer, eventually resolve  so that both may move on. 
 

actually it was a really excellent structural part of the show. I thought. 

It really was.  Not only is Mare suffering traumatic guilt because of her son's actions, she's also suffering guilt because her daughter was affected by those same actions.  When Siobhan first said "It should have been you."  I wasn't sure what she was talking about, then it became crystal clear.  It should've been Mare to discover the body.  Poor Mare, that's a lot to process.

[BC4ME]

I just rewatched the entire series over the past few days. It's crazy how, upon rewatch, it all seems so obvious now. Except for the Dylan gun on Jess thing. That never really fit in.

I enjoyed noticing some things like how the houses seemed really lived in, their real life-like clothes, and just taking in some local color that I didn't pay enough attention to the first time.

[iMonrey]

Maybe I missed something, but didn't Mr. Carroll tell Mare that his gun went missing then showed up again? Because according to Ryan he took the gun the night of Erin's murder and returned it right afterwards. So did Mr. Carroll get up in the middle of the night, go to the shed, find the gun missing, then go back again the next morning?

Also, did anyone else have a darker take on that ending with Mare going up into the attic? It occurred to me that one interpretation was that she was going up there to hang herself.

[Domestic Assassin]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Maybe I missed something, but didn't Mr. Carroll tell Mare that his gun went missing then showed up again? Because according to Ryan he took the gun the night of Erin's murder and returned it right afterwards. So did Mr. Carroll get up in the middle of the night, go to the shed, find the gun missing, then go back again the next morning?

 

He didn't look for the gun the next morning, but several weeks/months later (a few days before telling Mare about it) he noticed it was back. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Domestic Assassin

[iMonrey]

Quote

He didn't look for the gun the next morning, but several weeks/months later (a few days before telling Mare about it) he noticed it was back. 

So he was in the shed for some reason the night Erin was murdered, after Ryan stole the gun late at night? What was he doing in the shed that late at night and why didn't he report the gun missing?

[Domestic Assassin]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So he was in the shed for some reason the night Erin was murdered, after Ryan stole the gun late at night? What was he doing in the shed that late at night and why didn't he report the gun missing?

The day they called Mare about the peeping tom, he checked to see if the gun was in the shed and it was. Later that night (the night Erin was murdered), he heard a noise (probably Ryan stealing the gun), went to investigate and saw the gun was missing. Why he didn't report it missing was not addressed.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Late to the party but I really wish writers would come up with less convoluted mysteries. I know they need to fill a given number of pages somehow but the whole chain of events made almost no sense. Erin gets beaten, quite severely. She calls the priest - in the middle of the night - and he obediently comes even though he must be wary of being seen alone with teenagers at night. Then she decides to meet her secret lover that same night too because it just couldn't wait. The secret lover's son somehow, in the middle of a party, hears his father talking to his mistress, knows how to unlock his phone (the special secret phone used only for cheating to boot) and, how convenient, knows where to find a gun. He can't wait either, he has to confront the mistress now!!! Why he wouldn't threaten his dad instead remains a mystery. Or threaten Erin that he would tell her dad, he didn't need no guns for that. After the murder his dad is so calm, cool and collected that he even involves his idiot brother in the clean-up and lies without much difficulty and later comes up with a whole Machiavellian plot to have the brother take the fall.

And don't get me started on the nonsensical scene of Dylan waving a gun at Jess's face in episode six.

The character study was well done, the acting was stellar but ridiculousness of the mystery is very much at odds with the realistic approach to characterization. John being the culprit would have made very little difference for the character arcs but would have made the mystery a lot more palatable, IMO. If it had to be Ryan for some reason, they had to make it more spontaneous - something like he sees Erin and John, flips out, pushes Erin from some bridge or rock or something. Not this long trip for a convenient gun.

P.S. Of course Dylan is a Flyers fan on top of everything else :)

Edited June 10, 2021 by Jack Shaftoe

[sainte-chapelle]

So disappointing. I guessed it was the kid a while back (the tray incident kinda sealed the deal) but thought they wouldn’t blatantly borrow from Broadchurch and Gracepoint but they did…arg. Great acting and interesting characters though…will keep me coming back.

Edited June 10, 2021 by sainte-chapelle

[Alexander Pope]

On 5/31/2021 at 3:57 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I think they were just trying to establish Mare's deep ties to Lori, Dawn, and Beth and how far they go back. And it also gave a definitive marker to their ages since the game was 25 years ago, which highlighted the age difference between Mare and Colin a few episodes later when he said that he went to his reunion.

Especially considering that she didn't have a car!

I also think Mare was someone who thought she had already peaked with that shot (she bonded with Richard over that--he felt the same about his first book), and the story makes her a hero again in a much more important way.  So her early fame was crucial to the plot.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The character study was well done, the acting was stellar but ridiculousness of the mystery is very much at odds with the realistic approach to characterization.

Yeah. I mean, I enjoyed it overall but in hindsight it was a bit too twisty. It's the boyfriend! It's the Priest! It's Bobby! It's John! It's Ryan! I've watched enough Dateline to know it's usually one obvious suspect right from the start. In the real world it would have been the boyfriend or his jealous girlfriend and Keith Morrison would have figured it out in 2 hours.

[Affogato]

On 6/9/2021 at 12:22 PM, iMonrey said:

Maybe I missed something, but didn't Mr. Carroll tell Mare that his gun went missing then showed up again? Because according to Ryan he took the gun the night of Erin's murder and returned it right afterwards. So did Mr. Carroll get up in the middle of the night, go to the shed, find the gun missing, then go back again the next morning?

Also, did anyone else have a darker take on that ending with Mare going up into the attic? It occurred to me that one interpretation was that she was going up there to hang herself.

Absolutely not. Because Drew. 

[LisaM]

I really enjoyed it. I binged the show over 3 nights and found myself thinking about it during each day. 

I thought that the emphasis on the women of Easttown was well placed: Bethy, Dawn, Mare - shown to be dealing with tragedy and coming out the other side. 

Had no problem with Ryan as the killer. 

I was sure that Mare would end up asking Carrie to move into the house; so glad that she did not do so. Would have liked further update on Drew's blinking. 

ETA: I thought the Dylan storyline was completely left hanging - especially after he threatened Jess. When the show ended without him being arrested or having some consequence, I couldn't believe it. 

I'd watch a Season 2. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by LisaM

[Emily Thrace]

On 6/9/2021 at 8:27 AM, BC4ME said:

I just rewatched the entire series over the past few days. It's crazy how, upon rewatch, it all seems so obvious now. Except for the Dylan gun on Jess thing. That never really fit in.

I think it did fit, Dylan didn't want John to be revealed as DJ's father. He was trying to protect and keep his child which is very much a theme of the show. 

[endure]

I finally came around to watching this series, I enjoyed it but did find the storyline way too convoluted, especially the murder plot and just how many characters actually  died during the brief timeline.  Mare herself was injured twice, her mom was knocked over or fell over a couple of different times. Mare finds and loses two love interests and so much more.  But the acting was great and I liked some of the character development. 

[endure]

Here's a SNL spoof.....

 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

Lori really annoyed me by blaming Mare for taking her family apart.  Ummm, that was your family's piss poor decisions.  It doesn't matter if it was an accident, Ryan still did it.

 

He's better off coming clean and being able to get help and not having to hide it.  

[tantalum2000]

I felt the miniseries started strong and Winslett was amazing. It reminded very much of British crime dramas until the last episode and half.  At that point it got very melodramatic and p, well p, typically American. That was disappointing.  Still a good watch though I felt it could have been amazing watch if they got the end correct.

[Milburn Stone]

On 5/30/2021 at 10:19 PM, JeanJean said:

So why did Dylan threaten Jess with a gun?

This may have been answered since May 30, but I think they explained that. He knew the journals might prove him not to be the father. He also knew how much his parents were in love with DJ. He didn't want any scenario in which DJ would be taken away from said parents.

On 5/30/2021 at 10:25 PM, Norma Desmond said:

All in all, it was pretty fantastic. Less about the crime and more about the lives of Mare and the Easttown folks.

This.

[Milburn Stone]

On 5/30/2021 at 11:03 PM, whiporee said:

I think had anyone but Kate Winslet been involved, this show would have been much more criticized than it has been.

Forgive me, but to me, that's like saying "Without Steve Carell, The Office wouldn't have been as good." Of course it wouldn't have! An actor who really understands and gets inside the character changes everything.

[whiporee]

2 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Forgive me, but to me, that's like saying "Without Steve Carell, The Office wouldn't have been as good." Of course it wouldn't have! An actor who really understands and gets inside the character changes everything.

I didn't mean her abilities. I meant her name and her reputation. 

[Milburn Stone]

28 minutes ago, whiporee said:

I didn't mean her abilities. I meant her name and her reputation. 

It occurred to me that that could be what you meant--I wasn't sure--but I still beg to differ. Her participation might have got the show "greenlit," but there's no way the show would have received the amazing word of mouth it did--there's no way the show would have been as fantastic as it was--if her performance hadn't been one of the greatest by any actor ever. (Not to overstate the case.) She sold the story not just to HBO, she sold it to the audience, not by virtue of her fame, but by virtue of her work.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Milburn Stone

[Milburn Stone]

On 6/16/2021 at 6:44 AM, LisaM said:

I thought that the emphasis on the women of Easttown was well placed: Bethy, Dawn, Mare - shown to be dealing with tragedy and coming out the other side. 

You make me have a minor realization about the name of the character and the show. Mare, besides being short for Marianne, also denotes a horse of the female gender. In this very woman-centered show, the selection of that name for the character, and the show's title, may have been no accident.

[phoenics]

On 5/31/2021 at 1:44 AM, SnazzyDaisy said:

When they went with Mare to notify Kenny on Erin’s death, Billy was a bit restless but John seemed normal. Earlier that morning when Lori told him about Erin, John asked her “Kenny’s Erin?” Geez John, is there more than one Erin in EastTown?

I’d like to think that the Hincheys will help Lori babysitting DJ from time to time. Ryan is willing to accept DJ as his brother, that’s a good start! They can’t rely on John. 

I was wrong about the incriminating photo. It’s John, sleeping. I don’t think he knows about the photo. Erin was smiling, was she in love with him? She kept it in her journal as if it’s so precious while Billy’s necklace was tossed in between drawers. The photo, it’s like seeing a beauty and a beast, scary! 😬

 

The necklace and photo are of John.  The receipt just said "Ross" which is either brother.  Mare assumed initially it was Billy.  But John bought her that necklace.

[phoenics]

On 5/30/2021 at 11:19 PM, JeanJean said:

So why did Dylan threaten Jess with a gun?

Apparently Dylan stole the journals just in case Erin wrote in them who the father was of DJ because he wanted his parents to keep DJ.  He threatened Jess because she told and he was angry?

It was still pretty flimsy storytelling obviously set up to make us think Dylan could have murdered Erin but in the end, he just wanted to keep DJ with his family.

Just another poorly plotted out red herring.

On 8/23/2021 at 11:13 AM, Milburn Stone said:

You make me have a minor realization about the name of the character and the show. Mare, besides being short for Marianne, also denotes a horse of the female gender. In this very woman-centered show, the selection of that name for the character, and the show's title, may have been no accident.

Mares also lead from the back of the pack - letting the stallions run in front.  Mare seemed whiplashed about by the town more so than her whiplashing other folks, but maybe I'm wrong.

I enjoyed the series though and never saw that ending coming.  Agree with everyone else that John is a PoS and responsible for all the bad stuff.

I don't think this show will have a season 2 - it feels like this was a limited series?

[DrSparkles]

On 5/31/2021 at 1:11 PM, raven said:

And after all of that, the kid keeps his cool and presence of mind to return the gun to its original location!  This was why I was kind of hoping they were going with budding psychopath rather than impulsive shooting - it didn't seem impulsive to me.   He had time to cool off as he road his bike to the park.   Premeditation and coverup - most adults don't do that well with their crimes. 

I thought it was going to be revealed IN ANOTHER TWIST that John returned the gun days later.

[DrSparkles]

On 6/1/2021 at 1:13 AM, pennben said:

Oh, I’m pretty sure his reaction was something along the lines of “I did not actually hear a grown ass man who was screwing his teenage cousin just speak of his ‘deep connection’ to her to justify that shit, did I?”

Exactly! tl,dr? “Nasty.”

[MartyQui]

RE: Kevin. Mare says during her therapy session that he had been diagnosed with Tourette’s when he was a child, and reels off a list of medications that they had tried to control the tics.  Tourette’s has high comorbidity with ADHD and depression, and sometimes patients self medicate in order to deal with everything…which is apparently what Kevin did.

Also, the camera focused on Drew’s eye blink tic (early sign of Tourette’s) at one point, so apparently Mare will have to deal with that in the future..

[Hero Detective77]

Overall, I loved the show, but there were definitely some things that were truly hard/frustrating. The “good” definitely outweighs the bad for me:

 

Things I loved:

 

* The actors - “Mare of Easttown” really had star-quality reinforced by how it cleaned up at the Emmys, deservingly. Kate Winslet, Jean Smart, Evan Peters, and Julianne Nicholson to name a few. I’m a 40-something mom and librarian from Atlanta originally, and I loved seeing Jean Smart from “Designing Women.” She was a scene-stealer in this show!

* Characters over plot - I loved the focus on the characters and who they were over the plot. Not that the mysteries weren’t compelling, but by being so character-driven, it’s a show you can enjoyably revisit despite knowing the “answers” to the mysteries.

* Unafraid of realness and accuracy - The show, and Kate Winslet, weren’t afraid to not be 100% likable or rootable. It impressed, but didn’t surprise, me that Kate Winslet wanted none of the touch ups offered for her sex scene in episode 1 nor any of the promotional material. Jean Smart was the same - she asked for costuming to make her more believable as an older woman/Mare’s mom. No one was glammed up and all of them did what they could with making the difficult Delco accent believable.

* Mare’s counseling - I enjoyed her sessions with her counselor, her decision to keep going even when not mandated, and how it helped her be able to properly grieve her son. I thought the actress who played her counselor was great in her scenes with Mare. Therapy really can help, especially if you do the work.

* Fully fleshed out female characters - Too often, female characters are regulated to just being the love interest, the mom, etc. with little to no agency of their own. Not true at all of this show. The family relationships and friendships between the female characters is so vivid. It was a delightful change.

* The chemistry between Kate Winslet and Evan Peters - I hadn’t ever seen Evan Peters in anything before “Mare” and wow. To hold his own so well with the legendary Kate was impressive. I also really enjoyed their scenes together - both the humor, the admiration, and the realization that they aren’t so different after all:  both were flawed yet supportive of each other. That was especially true when they were finally able to really be truthful with each other by the bridge and in a way they hadn’t been with anyone else. From articles I read, they both added a lot to their characters and, in Evan’s case, really shaped the character who made it to the screen. Which leads me to…

 

What Frustrated Me/Hurt:

 

* While I get what the showrunners were going for, I hated that they killed Colin off. I feel like they could have achieved a very similar arc by putting him in a coma or indicating he’d be paralyzed for life, but revealing at the end that he could and would heal over time. I missed their dynamic greatly, and it would have been a nice turn for Mare to confront her ability to be present in and confront difficult times/emotions unlike how she couldn’t with her son. I think it could have still ended with the attic, and then if they did a season 2, Evan Peters would still be on the show. I felt like Mare and Colin had a real turning point at the bridge, so I wish the ending could have alluded to pursuing that and/or do so in a potential season 2.

* Julianne Nicholson’s (as Lori) pain over her son (“My Ryan!”), seeing him run through the woods, all of it. As a mom, that gutted me. Same with the scene between Mare and Lori at the very end. Also, the power and pain of motherhood:  Helen’s regret regarding Mare, Mare and her daughter’s grief over the suicide, Dawn inability to grieve for Katie, etc. Mare’s flashback to her son stealing from her and recounting the day of his suicide was heartbreaking. 

* Mare drinking from Colin’s mug, all the police badges with black lines, and Mare sobbing in her mom’s arms in episode 6. Enough said. :(

* The incest/grooming plotline was ick. Also, it’s hard to believe the healthiest place for D.J. to grow up is with Lori and her family given D.J.’s half-brother killed his mom and D.J.’s real dad and uncle helped cover it up plus the whole incestuous relationship. I think he would have been better off being raised by Dylan’s parents. I felt bad for Lori, too, because what a position to be in along with everything else.

* The insinuation that Colin was nothing more than a shitty cop. I disagree. I think Colin was a cop out of his depth because his experience didn’t align with his reputation. Should he have taken credit? Morally, it’s wrong. However, a cop planting drugs on someone seems infinitely worse - morally and legally. I think Colin could have learned a lot from Mare, and she found that his ability to have congenial relationships allowed him to get what was needed when it was needed bad be happier and more hopeful. For anyone who has watched and loved “Homicide: Life on the Streets,” I’m reminded of my favorite pairing:  Frank Pembleton and Tim Bayliss. Frank was the original hero detective, the master of the Box (interrogation room), relentless yet removed, but he was also incorrigible, played by his own rules, and none of the Homicide detectives wanted to partner with him. Tim was the rookie, the “heart” of their partnership, by the book, admired Frank and loyal to a fault, and he made Frank more human. In fact, it was Frank who “froze” when it was shoot or be shot, and Tim was the one who threw himself in front of Frank. It isn’t just rookie cops who freeze up and/or end up in a terrible situation. Tim learned a lot from Frank, and Frank found a devoted friend who loved him, just as he was. 
 

Whew! That was a lot. But hopefully, it’s the start of talking about this incredible show as a whole. And for the things that frustrated me, there’s some great MoE fanfiction at Archive of Our Own.