S01.E07: Sacrament

[paigow]

47 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I think Richard made up the job at Bates so he could get out of that crazy town immediately.

Since some real colleges have been mentioned, the only Bates College in the USA is in Lewiston, ME. https://www.bates.edu/150-years/history/ 

[Chicago Redshirt]

24 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Do revolvers have safety's? I know Semi-Autos do but, I don't think Revolvers have one except for that half cock position but, if Ryan didn't know anything about Guns, I doubt he'd know about revolvers and, their safety situation.  Plus, I don't think it would have held during the struggle.

Good point. Most revolvers don't have safeties.

On another front, it's extra sad that Erin got catfished into one beatdown and then Ryan feigned being John to lure her into another confrontation. 

[marny]

What teenager in this day and age prints photographs? I don’t buy Erin having a print of the photo of the selfie she took with John in bed. It’s not like she was planning to frame it for the mantle. 

This series was mediocre. Great performances that elevated a not great script.

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

And the pizza slicer? Not nice. I mean, PIZZA.

And it was a really good pizza slicer!

6 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Right? This is what makes me believe Lori still loves the child molester.

Oh, she definitely still loves him. Whether she would stay with him when he got out is less clear but personally I say she would unfortunately.

2 hours ago, chediavolo said:

No sympathy for this 12 year old psycho who deliberately pulled the trigger. Rewatch the scene. 

Yea, that's one of the problems I had. Were we supposed to believe Ryan's account of it all being an accident? Because if so, the direction of that scene was terrible because it definitely wasn't an accident.

[paigow]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh, she definitely still loves him. Whether she would stay with him when he got out is less clear but personally I say she would unfortunately.

Does Lori have a job? Maybe everyone has to move in with Det. Medavoy

[SailorGirl]

On 5/31/2021 at 2:10 AM, MBayGal said:

Because every "serious" show -- and many that are not -- has to have an important character who is not straight. Didn't you get the memo?  

The whole Siobhan arc would have been exactly the same if she had been involved with a male.  Just gotta get that diversity in.

Or maybe, shows are simply making an effort to more accurately reflect what the world looks like. One could just as easily say the whole "cop arc" would have been exactly the same if the police chief had been white, but just gotta get that diversity in by having a black man in a position of authority. 

The fact that some see it as an attempt to pander toward "diversity" is the very reason why shows need to better reflect what the world really looks like. Because some see it as "diversity" when in fact its just "normality."  

And on a completely unrelated note . . . Happy Pride Month!! 

Edited June 1, 2021 by SailorGirl

[Snazzy Daisy]

1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

The fact that some see it as an attempt to pander toward "diversity" is the very reason why shows need to better reflect what the world really looks like. Because some see it as "diversity" when in fact its just "normality."  

For diversity, Helen should have an affair with Betty instead. Glenn is boring… 

Watching Helen’s love life will be more interesting than Siobhan’s!

[Haleth]

58 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

For diversity, Helen should have an affair with Betty instead. Glenn is boring… 

Watching Helen’s love life will be more interesting than Siobhan’s!

I thought for sure Mr Carroll was going to ask Mare if he could call her mother for a date. 

[MBayGal]

12 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

And fuck this show for using the post-Zabel kiss music over Mare's unearned, beige reunion with Guy Pearce, lol.

How do you remember what music was played in a previous scene?  I'm impressed!!!! 

[FemmyV]

21 hours ago, aghst said:

That bullying scene is not unlike the Game of Thrones pilot where Joffrey gets humiliated by Arya and the poor baker's boy is punished, establishing the Lannisters as villains and Joffrey as the first of many MUST-DIE characters on that show.

It's effective but manipulative, lacking in subtlety and grace.

Episode 1 is a Reverse Lannister. We are shown Erin as the ultimate, innocent victim. Everything about her bad decision-making is glossed over because she's such a good, devoted, mom who loves her kid (and because she paid such a high price for it). And Dylan is such an asshole that we spend weeks wondering how such nice people could have raised that little punk. Even after we knew Dylan wasn't the father, instead of thinking how his life was upended for Erin's lie, instead of thinking about how he almost died for Erin's lie, we got the pillow scene. What might have been, "wow, Dyland really got fucked," was, "OMG please don't let him take it out on that innocent baby."

The things DJ is going to have to process, growing up in the Ross household, are some heavy, heavy shit. It's a type of tribal justice so I can kind of understand, but it demonstrates, imo, the kinds of mental health risks that kids are at.

For people who complain about so much Siobhan, her life being featured so much provides an illustration how some kids manage to GTFO of the Easttowns: If I were Mare, I'd be happy my daughter was lesbian, considering the gene pool. Siobhan could have been another Erin, or another Brionna. But because she threw herself and her anger/depression into creative efforts, that became her ticket out.

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by FemmyV

[Madison59]

All the unanswered questions and irrelevant storylines remind me of Your Honor, where the last episode just made you mad.  These limited series begin with a bang, reel you right in, then insult the viewer with a lame finale. Erin's murder had - how many - suspects?  Her father? Dylan? The priest? John?  Billy?  Frank? Lori?  Brianna?  What the heck?  Ends up it is a junior high boy.  The entire Siobhan love life was what?  Teen angst?   So many details in this story were random - the grandson had ticks, Kevin had ticks, what was the conclusion?  During the course of the night Erin was killed, a lot of people were with Erin, yet none crossed paths.  What was the point of the pizza cutter and other items stolen from the older man's house, when the returned gun was the real reason.  And we are to believe this 13 yr. old was savvy enough to get the gun, commit the crime, return the gun in pristine condition, and no one saw him.  Then the older man reports a couple random items stolen and oh, BTW, the same caliber gun which was involved in a murder, just happens to be like man, and 2 rounds are missing.  Imagine that.  Loved the show, but it began to go off the rails around episode 5.

[MamaMax]

On 5/31/2021 at 2:13 AM, FemmyV said:

As it all settles in, and my cynical side kicks in, it's hard not to mention how everyone could have been spared a lot of grief if Erin hadn't been so mistreated and lonely that she thought it was a good idea to have and raise her married cousin's kid, at her age. Even if she couldn't bring herself to an abortion, as nice and sweet as she seemed, she really wasn't thinking of what was best for DJ, when she decided to raise him and finger Dylan as the dad.

 

But bad decisions make better stories.

It makes perfect sense to me that an unloved girl would want to keep her baby. Finally someone to love who will love her back. 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

I thought for sure Mr Carroll was going to ask Mare if he could call her mother for a date. 

He never asked before... why would he start now? But he needs to find someone to cut the grass... Dylan is available...

[MamaMax]

On 5/31/2021 at 7:38 AM, rlc said:

 

My favorite moment of the episode was when Lori forgave Mare, and they both literally collapsed from the weight of their grief, but Mare found the strength to hold Lori and hopefully forgive herself. I woke up thinking about that scene, and the scenes with Ryan and Lori. I’m not at all disappointed with the finale.

I felt this moment so much. At one of the darkest moments of my life, a very close female friend literally took my head into her lap like that while I cried. The moment in the show was so real and so emotionally powerful that I dreamt of that friend the same night I saw the show. 

[SnarkEnthusiast]

On 5/31/2021 at 12:11 AM, raven said:

We did spend too much time on Siobhan's love life.  Teen drama doesn't interest me. 

I liked Zabel for his interactions with Mare - his less than stellar policing emphasized her own, more driven method.  

I think all the Siobhan romance drama as well as Dylan's ultimately pointless criminal shenanigans were meant to be nothing more than elaborate extended misdirects to make Siobhan and Dylan seem like viable suspects by painting them as unstable and controlling. Ultimately, they just turned out to be self-absorbed. (Although honestly I wasn't bothered by Siobhan like everyone else seems to be - she's got understandable abandonment issues, whereas Dylan is utter garbage.) It's also not uncommon for shows to showcase LGBT characters solely for the added media buzz, as cynical as that sounds. Lesbians/bi women are a hungry demographic and, speaking from experience, will fawn over any representation, lol.

The show's takeaway with Zabel seems to be that he was a harmless coworker with an unrequited crush after all, which....sure, but did he have to die for that? His apparent incompetence justified Mare's impulsiveness, which was ultimately vindicated for good through his death, I guess, which in turn led to her being reinstated. I'm with @tennisgurl though, killing him off was cheap misery porn fodder. It would've been way more satisfying to see them solve the case together.

2 hours ago, MBayGal said:

How do you remember what music was played in a previous scene?  I'm impressed!!!! 

Some shows have special theme music for a given couple whenever they have a romantic scene. I assumed the music after Zabel kissed her would be theirs, but then it played over the Guy Pearce farewell (talk about salt in the wound!), so I guess it's just theme music for general Mare romance.

The real answer is because I've replayed the Zabel kiss an assload of times because this show has ignited my Evan Peters crush.

Guy Pearce is living the dream. Imagine getting a fat paycheck for basically eight scenes of flirting with Kate Winslet. Also, if he was cast as a favor for Kate, friendships between actors fascinate me. "Hey Guy, how have you been? We have a last minute opening in my new project. You'd be my love interest in a sad, dead end town. Our second scene together is fucking on a couch. I immediately thought of you."

Edited June 1, 2021 by SnarkEnthusiast

[Mackey]

I’m not Billy, or John, or Lori or Ryan. I don’t need to think about what I,personally, would do to think about the realism of their motivations and behaviors. I just need to think about whether it feels right that any human would think or behave that way—a human being with other characteristics that these people have.  
 

And, I’m having trouble buying it-how evil someone would be to blame his brother for something his son did and also try to kill his brother. Especially considering that there’d be fewer consequences for his son. 

[FemmyV]

19 minutes ago, Mackey said:

And, I’m having trouble buying it-how evil someone would be to blame his brother for something his son did and also try to kill his brother. Especially considering that there’d be fewer consequences for his son. 

 

There are a number of crucial decisions that could have been made differently, and we wouldn't have the series. John Ross made some colossally bad, self-serving decisions that hurt other people, starting with the statutory rape of his cousin's child and justifying it as a mystical connection.

Everything about the way the show is written allows us to sympathize and empathize, at one point or another, just about every character in the show. John Ross is an exception, depending on how early in you suspect he is the baby daddy. If he could justify an affair with Erin, seems he could justify leaning on Billy to take the rap for Ryan.

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by FemmyV

[MBayGal]

1 hour ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

It's also not uncommon for shows to showcase LGBT characters solely for the added media buzz, as cynical as that sounds. Lesbians/bi women are a hungry demographic and, speaking from experience, will fawn over any representation, lol.

It seems that many men are turned on by watching women make out, so more audience.

[ShadowHunter]

1 hour ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I think all the Siobhan romance drama as well as Dylan's ultimately pointless criminal shenanigans were meant to be nothing more than elaborate extended misdirects to make Siobhan and Dylan seem like viable suspects by painting them as unstable and controlling. Ultimately, they just turned out to be self-absorbed. (Although honestly I wasn't bothered by Siobhan like everyone else seems to be - she's got understandable abandonment issues, whereas Dylan is utter garbage.) It's also not uncommon for shows to showcase LGBT characters solely for the added media buzz, as cynical as that sounds. Lesbians/bi women are a hungry demographic and, speaking from experience, will fawn over any representation, lol.

The show's takeaway with Zabel seems to be that he was a harmless coworker with an unrequited crush after all, which....sure, but did he have to die for that? His apparent incompetence justified Mare's impulsiveness, which was ultimately vindicated for good through his death, I guess, which in turn led to her being reinstated. I'm with @tennisgurl though, killing him off was cheap misery porn fodder. It would've been way more satisfying to see them solve the case together.

Some shows have special theme music for a given couple whenever they have a romantic scene. I assumed the music after Zabel kissed her would be theirs, but then it played over the Guy Pearce farewell (talk about salt in the wound!), so I guess it's just theme music for general Mare romance.

The real answer is because I've replayed the Zabel kiss an assload of times because this show has ignited my Evan Peters crush.

Guy Pearce is living the dream. Imagine getting a fat paycheck for basically eight scenes of flirting with Kate Winslet. Also, if he was cast as a favor for Kate, friendships between actors fascinate me. "Hey Guy, how have you been? We have a last minute opening in my new project. You'd be my love interest in a sad, dead end town. Our second scene together is fucking on a couch. I immediately thought of you."

Haha. I hope Evan Peters gets another HBO series or something. I know Ryan Murphy will always keep him employed but I want him to do another show away from him lol. 

 

[tennisgurl]

John is terrible, and him wanting DJ just seems like one last selfish act before he got dragged off to jail. So he gets to leave his bio son with his heartbroken wife still reeling from the fact that her husband is a rapist and her son is a killer and now they're both in jail to take care of, taking him away from the grandparents who would have actually been a stable and happy home for him and clearly still wanted DJ regardless of genetics, all so that he gets "his son" now that his crimes are out in the open and the teenager he got pregnant is dead and cant cause him more problems. 

Anyway, I did end up liking the show despite some issues with padding, a few too many red herrings, and the crappy ending for poor baby DJ. It tied up most all of the loose ends and like a lot of these detective shows it turned more into a character study of Mare then a mystery, which is what I expected to happen so I cant be mad. 

[raven]

2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I think all the Siobhan romance drama as well as Dylan's ultimately pointless criminal shenanigans were meant to be nothing more than elaborate extended misdirects to make Siobhan and Dylan seem like viable suspects by painting them as unstable and controlling.

I never personally considered Siobhan a suspect.  She didn't appear unstable or controlling to me - she exhibited obsessive behavior in the last episode after she got wasted, when she couldn't reach her girlfriend, but other than that, she seemed like a teen who had normal (boring to me) teen relationship drama. 

Dylan, OTOH, was the asshole who stood by and watched his current GF and her friends beat the crap out of the young woman who he thought was the mother of his child.  That takes a special kind of douchebag.   He was always a reliable suspect to me, no matter if he seemed mostly decent with the baby.

4 hours ago, MamaMax said:

It makes perfect sense to me that an unloved girl would want to keep her baby. Finally someone to love who will love her back. 

Exactly - DJ was the one constant in her life and she was trying to do the best she could for him.  It wasn't perfect by any means and resulted in her murder.  She unfortunately didn't have any stable adults she could confide in or go to for advice.

[LuvMyShows]

 

17 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I was also disappointed with Carrie's non-resolution. I felt like having her relapse off-screen and just shrug and hand Mare custody validated Mare's (awful) behavior and sent the message that those struggling with addiction can't recover. (and also, subliminally, that we were supposed to anticipate or by relieved by her relapsing because she's portrayed as a "bad" addict). 

Here is my confusion.  Carrie did decide to not be present at the custody hearing and left to go to rehab.  I guess there is an assumption that her being a no-show means that Mare got custody?  I don't recall hearing anything that specifically said she was given custody.

[peachmangosteen]

She seems to have already had custody and then Carrie petitioned for custody but since she decided against it, I assume the case would just be dismissed and Mare would keep custody of DJ.

[Dminches]

5 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

 

Here is my confusion.  Carrie did decide to not be present at the custody hearing and left to go to rehab.  I guess there is an assumption that her being a no-show means that Mare got custody?  I don't recall hearing anything that specifically said she was given custody.

Mare already had custody so the fact that there was no hearing meant nothing changed.

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

I don’t really care if Siobhan is straight, half straight or zig-zag. The diversity stunt adds nothing to the depth of a character. It’s just a lazy writing to create Siobhan the way she is just to distinguish her from other EastTown teenagers. Her uniqueness is her emotional pain, not her sexuality. You have this one talented actress with great chemistry with Kate Winslet and Jean Smart, use her to the max.

Scenes that show how Mare, Frank and Helen can accept who she is and that emotional unload scene, these are great. Scenes where she spends time with her band getting wasted and chatting with her 2 GFs, these are pointless. Her angst is only evident in a couple of earlier episodes where she keeps ignoring her mom and being rude to her, then it has been toned down. We see her working on a personal documentary about her brother. This arc could have been exploited more as her journey towards healing, but no. Instead this is just to prop her mom’s story about her grief/guilt (yeah yeah I know this show is about Mare 🙄).

It would have been so much better for Siobhan’s character to share this documentary with her whole family (including Frank and little Drew) before she goes on to her next journey. Then you can have Helen says to Mare the “whatever happened to Kevin isn’t your fault” lines after watching that vid, instead of pouring her heart out in a random restaurant. This show could have some powerful, 3 generations’ grieving moments here, what a missed opportunity! 

[BC4ME]

To those saying or implying something to the effect that you can't have a character study and a murder mystery together -- you're right. Or at least it's hard. I was drawn to both aspects and I would normally lean toward the character study slice of life aspects. However. By the finale I had been so wowed by the plot of the murder mystery and waiting to be blown out of the water by the last episode that I missed all the wonderful real people emotional moments. I rewatched last night and finally appreciated them once my interest in who the killer was had been satisfied. It was really a great series I thought. 

They had some loose ends though. Like who was with Kevin at the beach in the video Siobhian was including in her documentary? Maybe I missed it.  

[whiporee]

10 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Good point. Most revolvers don't have safeties. 

But any responsible gun owner -- especially a retired cop -- would have a trigger lock on a gun that wasn't kept by their bedside. You don't keep a loaded gun in a shed. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

 

Here is my confusion.  Carrie did decide to not be present at the custody hearing and left to go to rehab.  I guess there is an assumption that her being a no-show means that Mare got custody?  I don't recall hearing anything that specifically said she was given custody.

As other people have said, Carrie's decision to not actually show up at the hearing was her abandoning her quest for custody because she has started using again and had realized that it was in the best interest to not take her kid from the stable home that he's been in. 

She left it to Mare to convey what happened to the court, which seems kind of ridiculous since she literally is downstairs from the hearing that she made wait for a long time. I know she's a junkie and all, but she could just as easily called her lawyer and told the lawyer that she was withdrawing her custody petition. Indeed, the judge would have every reason to question whether Mare is telling the truth (even if it's not public knowledge or knowledge that Carrie's lawyer has that Mare tried to plant heroin on Carrie.)

2 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

I don’t really care if Siobhan is straight, half straight or zig-zag. The diversity stunt adds nothing to the depth of a character. It’s just a lazy writing to create Siobhan the way she is just to distinguish her from other EastTown teenagers. Her uniqueness is her emotional pain, not her sexuality. You have this one talented actress with great chemistry with Kate Winslet and Jean Smart, use her to the max.

Scenes that show how Mare, Frank and Helen can accept who she is and that emotional unload scene, these are great. Scenes where she spends time with her band getting wasted and chatting with her 2 GFs, these are pointless. Her angst is only evident in a couple of earlier episodes where she keeps ignoring her mom and being rude to her, then it has been toned down. We see her working on a personal documentary about her brother. This arc could have been exploited more as her journey towards healing, but no. Instead this is just to prop her mom’s story about her grief/guilt (yeah yeah I know this show is about Mare 🙄).

It would have been so much better for Siobhan’s character to share this documentary with her whole family (including Frank and little Drew) before she goes on to her next journey. Then you can have Helen says to Mare the “whatever happened to Kevin isn’t your fault” lines after watching that vid, instead of pouring her heart out in a random restaurant. This show could have some powerful, 3 generations’ grieving moments here, what a missed opportunity! 

I think calling it a "diversity stunt" shows that you do really care.

Had Siobhan had the exact same scenes with boys or a boy and a girl or whatever shouldn't matter all that much. I don't see how it's any lazier writing to have her relationships be with women than anything else. 

Personally, I think there is a good contrast between Siobhan and Mare. Siobhan was grappling with her memories of Kevin and turned it into art that got her to what would presumably be a haven for her in Berkeley. Whereas Mare has been stuck in the same emotional and physical space and only at the end of what she's gone through is barely able to explore some of it that she had closed off for too long. 

25 minutes ago, whiporee said:

But any responsible gun owner -- especially a retired cop -- would have a trigger lock on a gun that wasn't kept by their bedside. You don't keep a loaded gun in a shed. 

I guess the rub is: is Carroll a responsible gun owner at this point? All signs point to no. The notion that he originally had the gun in an attic where the grandkids could find it, that he did not put a trigger lock on the gun, that he didn't have it in a lockbox, that he left it loaded. that he had it somewhere that Ryan might know about it in the first place, that he didn't report it missing immediately when he noticed it or that he talked about it in the same breath about the mysterious pizza slicer disappearance only inadvertently...all suggest the character is at least somewhat flawed, forgetful, inappropriate or fill in the blank.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, whiporee said:

But any responsible gun owner -- especially a retired cop -- would have a trigger lock on a gun that wasn't kept by their bedside. You don't keep a loaded gun in a shed. 

Well yeah but, that's neither here nor there. The original poster commented that Ryan deliberately shot Erin (not accidentally like he claimed) because Ryan took the safety off to shoot.

Old Man Carroll not having a gun lock (while stupid on his part) doesn't mean anything to Ryan's account.

[Bluesky]

On 5/30/2021 at 11:30 PM, JeanJean said:

My sister and I just talked about that. Her take is John still had sex with a minor, so he's probably still in jail for that.

Wasn’t John related to the girl also?

Edited June 2, 2021 by Bluesky
Mistake

[FemmyV]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Well yeah but, that's neither here nor there. The original poster commented that Ryan deliberately shot Erin (not accidentally like he claimed) because Ryan took the safety off to shoot.

I re-watched the scene several times and it looks like Ryan hit the trigger while he was trying to pull his arm away from Erin. 

[chediavolo]

10 hours ago, whiporee said:

But any responsible gun owner -- especially a retired cop -- would have a trigger lock on a gun that wasn't kept by their bedside. You don't keep a loaded gun in a shed. 

If only that were true.  He was pretty stupid for someone who should have known better.   Too many irresponsible gun owners. Part of a bigger problem in this country. 

[chediavolo]

4 hours ago, FemmyV said:

I re-watched the scene several times and it looks like Ryan hit the trigger while he was trying to pull his arm away from Erin. 

I though I saw him step back or he was standing apart from her & deliberately shoot. Anyone have the clip? I don’t know if on demand let’s you ff’d & I don’t way to rewatch the show. 

[Morrigan2575]

6 hours ago, FemmyV said:

I re-watched the scene several times and it looks like Ryan hit the trigger while he was trying to pull his arm away from Erin. 

I only watched it once, the first shot hit her hand while they wrestled for the gun. The second shot he was solo on the gun but, easily could have been accidental. I believe the flashback was intended to match the voice over and that it was accidental.

[Haleth]

It looked to me like after they wrestled for the gun, with adrenaline surging, he aimed and shot her.  He didn't mean to do it, he wasn't thinking clearly.  In his mind it was an accident.

9 hours ago, Bluesky said:

Wasn’t John related to the girl also?

Yes.  John and her father are cousins.

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I though I saw him step back or he was standing apart from her & deliberately shoot. Anyone have the clip? I don’t know if on demand let’s you ff’d & I don’t way to rewatch the show. 

I rewatched for you. He points the gun directly at her and shouts, with a mean face, "Stay away from my family!" and in the interview room tells Mare, "I was only trying to scare her." Then she tries to wrestle the gun from him, and there are two shots as he gets the gun free from her, both in close succession; the second gunshot he is clearly aiming at her and deliberately shoots her. "And then I...." he tells Mare, and stops. She says, "Ryan." And he says, after a pause, "I shot her." 

It wasn't an accident, ie.

PS: In the process, I also discovered Mare didn't say "I'm sorry" to the little boy, as she shifted her arm out, as someone posted here, she said, according to the subtitles {whispers inaudibly}; but to my ears, very quietly,"Go back to sleep now"... then she braves a look in the attic where her son died. Nice ending. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by violet and green
added

[chediavolo]

27 minutes ago, violet and green said:

I rewatched for you. He points the gun directly at her and shouts, with a mean face, "Stay away from my family!" and in the interview room tells Mare, "I was only trying to scare her." Then she tries to wrestle the gun from him, and there are two shots as he gets the gun free from her, both in close succession; the second gunshot he is clearly aiming at her and deliberately shoots her. "And then I...." he tells Mare, and stops. She says, "Ryan." And he says, after a pause, "I shot her." 

It wasn't an accident, ie.

PS: In the process, I also discovered Mare didn't say "I'm sorry" to the little boy, as she shifted her arm out, as someone posted here, she said, according to the subtitles {whispers inaudibly}; but to my ears, very quietly,"Go back to sleep now"... then she braves a look in the attic where her son died. Nice ending. 

Thanks. It was definitely not an accident. The kid has problems. And I hope he’s getting psychiatric help at the juvenile center because this is just the beginning of the makings of a lunatic. 

[paigow]

Ryan can wait for his sister to have kids, then date them...

[peachmangosteen]

16 hours ago, BC4ME said:

They had some loose ends though. Like who was with Kevin at the beach in the video Siobhian was including in her documentary? Maybe I missed it.  

I just assumed no one. I personally never took that scene to mean anything. It just seemed to me like Siobhan sorta wistfully wondering about if he was alone.

[FemmyV]

3 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Thanks. It was definitely not an accident. The kid has problems. And I hope he’s getting psychiatric help at the juvenile center because this is just the beginning of the makings of a lunatic. 

Granted, we now have a handful of holes, but John's insistence that Ryan keep the shooting "just between us," would indicate that Ryan wanted to come clean. Another reason why I am accepting his account, as shown.

[roughing it]

So there's been some talk about Lori "lying" to Mare when she told her about Billy being the killer.  Did she really lie?  I thought that's what John confessed to her, to throw her off, that Billy killed Erin, and not to tell Mare.  Then Lori goes and tells Mare anyway that Billy killed Erin.  Did John confess to Lori that Ryan killed Erin?  'cause I somehow missed that conversation.

[paigow]

11 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Did John confess to Lori that Ryan killed Erin?  'cause I somehow missed that conversation.

Yes. Lori admits this to Mare.. The actual conversation with John was shown as a flashback without dialogue. Lori puts her head down on the dining room table to cry.

[cardigirl]

2 minutes ago, roughing it said:

So there's been some talk about Lori "lying" to Mare when she told her about Billy being the killer.  Did she really lie?  I thought that's what John confessed to her, to throw her off, that Billy killed Erin, and not to tell Mare.  Then Lori goes and tells Mare anyway that Billy killed Erin.  Did John confess to Lori that Ryan killed Erin?  'cause I somehow missed that conversation.

He did tell her, and that was why they concocted the story about it being Billy. He said to Lori, "Mare must never find out." And immediately after that, Mare comes over looking for Billy and Lori tells her Billy is the father of the baby and he shot Erin. But I think she was protecting Ryan because of that "Mare must never know."   

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

He did tell her, and that was why they concocted the story about it being Billy. He said to Lori, "Mare must never find out." And immediately after that, Mare comes over looking for Billy and Lori tells her Billy is the father of the baby and he shot Erin. But I think she was protecting Ryan because of that "Mare must never know."   

So Lori was not only willing to send her husband to jail to protect her son (reasonable, he was a shit bag) but, also her brother in law (who was a screw up but, decent person). Was she also in the know about John's plan to kill Billy to further cover up Ryan's actions?

I think we're supposed to be sympathetic to Lori but, the only reason I don't hate her is because Mere doesn't hate her. 😂

[Affogato]

On 6/1/2021 at 12:34 PM, MamaMax said:

It makes perfect sense to me that an unloved girl would want to keep her baby. Finally someone to love who will love her back. 

And Catholic. 

[MBayGal]

14 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I though I saw him step back or he was standing apart from her & deliberately shoot. Anyone have the clip? I don’t know if on demand let’s you ff’d & I don’t way to rewatch the show. 

On my cable system, HBO OnDemand lets you ff.

[paigow]

Not sure if Erin had to drop out of high school before learning about inbreeding in biology class. Surprised that Dylan did not spend the surgery cash on weed or meth.

[Affogato]

7 minutes ago, paigow said:

Not sure if Erin had to drop out of high school before learning about inbreeding in biology class. Surprised that Dylan did not spend the surgery cash on weed or meth.

I think we did see a progression with him. He was growing to like the baby. Didn’t smother him, picked him up instead. 

[freddi]

On 5/30/2021 at 9:28 PM, SnazzyDaisy said:

At least the peeping Tom story does contribute to the cctv installation at the Carrolls.

Or, as I started calling it when we saw Mare delete some footage, "Chekhov's backyard surveillance system."  I knew it would come back to bite her or help her.  

Edited June 3, 2021 by freddi

[freddi]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

He was growing to like the baby. Didn’t smother him, picked him up instead. 

Yes, on the checklist of traits of a good father -- fought back the impulse to smother the baby to stop the crying.