S01.E07: Sacrament

[Dminches]

13 minutes ago, whiporee said:

I think had anyone but Kate Winslet been involved, this show would have been much more criticized than it has been. Looking back, while it did paint a good portrait of an area and featured some strong accent work, it was very shoddily put together. When you only have seven episodes, throwing in a complete red herring seems like a real waste of time and manipulation of the audience. The second set of girls and Zabel's entire arc was just a waste of time. Even the stuff about Mare's son was a waste, because we as viewers, were never allowed to understand it. Was he bipolar? We he crazy? Just an asshole? What actually happened? 

The show is about Mare so the death of her son affected who she had become and what she is dealing with.  It is completely relevant. All the particulars of the son are not. 
 

[Hanahope]

Well there definitely are some threads they can use if they go with a second season, like Dylan.

John could be considered an accessory after the fact, which is sometimes as bad as doing the initial crime.  
 

I think they said Kevin had some autistic symptoms, which likely were exacerbated by drug use.  

[filmfan2480]

While this show wasn't perfect, BOY did I find it satisfying; particularly in these final 3 episodes.

I kinda thought it wouldn't be John about half and hour in, but did NOT expect it to be who it was.  Unreal.

I wasn't the biggest fan of the first ep and I thought Mare would bug the crap out of me.

But I was dead wrong.  While I always think Kate Winslet is great, her performance here as Mare is just on another level.

Give Winslet the Lead Emmy/SAG, nominate Julianne Nicholson and Jean Smart in Supporting ... and have Nicholson win there.  Holy crap was she gut-wrenching in those final 10 minutes.  SO glad this actress got a role and a show/movie to showcase her talents.

Edited May 31, 2021 by filmfan2480

[Snazzy Daisy]

When the murder mystery is solved within the first 5 mins, everybody know there's more to it.

John is still an asshole despite trying to cover for his son, he started everything! Will he be facing statutory rape charges as well? Kudos to Ryan for owning everything, he is a better man than John is. Lori is a saint for taking DJ in, he's gonna be a painful reminder to her, everyday. I wonder how Kenny will react when he finds out that his own cousin was raping his daughter & the father of his grandson. Twisted to the core!

So Dylan and his buddy are not involved in drugs business and prostitution huh. It's nice of him to give $$$ to DJ.

Hey show, for all the plot twists and red herrings, why do I have to endure watching Siobhan's love lives for several episodes??? They add nothing. Same goes with Richard Ryan, he is pointless. At least the peeping Tom story does contribute to the cctv installation at the Carrolls.

When Mare tells Father Dan that Deacon Mark has been released, he looks unhappy, why?

Evidently, one core theme of MoET - grieving mothers! Mare, Helen, Dawn, Lori, Carrie and even Dylan's mom (for losing DJ).

This is me watching the final scene between Mare & Lori... it's so moving & unbearable!

[raven]

Thinking about the policing aspects - anything I've read (so who knows how accurate it is) about real life policing is that it's a combination of luck and tenacity.   It was Mare's tenaciousness that luckily found someone who escaped the kidnapper and get a partial plate on the blue van.  Without that, they would not have found the two girls.

It was an offhand comment to Mare that led her to the gun.   They had the bullet from the previous episode because she kept searching when  Zabel was cold and wanted to go home.

Most of that felt realistic, though the blue van survivor was a little too coincidental for me.

I am glad they FINALLY mentioned Erin's cell phone and that they did not get anything helpful from it.  That was bugging me.

 

 

[Snapdragon]

Gross.  Here's a quote from the writer (creator?) of the show about Lori taking in DJ (https://slate.com/culture/2021/05/mare-easttown-finale-ending-killer-twist-interview.html )

"If you look at the finale, it’s really about mercy. Here’s Lori—the ultimate act of mercy in my mind is to love the child that’s been the cause of the family’s demise. “I have to love the thing that has completely ripped apart my family. I have to stare at this child that is the thing that has ripped apart everyone I love. And I have to love it every day.” That’s an incredible act of mercy on Lori’s part."

Um, no.  DJ is not the cause of Lori's family being ripped apart.  DJ is not the cause of anything (nor is he a "thing" as the writer keeps calling him).  He's an innocent child.    John is the POS that's responsible for everything that happened to Erin, Ryan, Lori and DJ and I find it highly disturbing that the person who wrote the dang series doesn't understand that.

[ZeeEnnui]

I knew John was the father but BARF. He and his teenage cousin had a connection! Gross, dude. Just gross. 

Ryan was not on my suspect BINGO card. 

33 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

My only point of dissatisfaction with the finale is about Dylan’s role. He is clearly a “troubled teen” but the show never defined the character. Perhaps that’s best left to the viewers.

Same. I feel like they didn't know what to do with Dylan. He was both an asshole teenager, and then last week inexplicably acting out some gangster cos-play. It was as if the writers of this truly tremendous show didn't know what to do with him so they threw ALL of the bad guy stereotypes at him to see what would stick (none of them did). And then we got some last minute out of nowhere redemption where he not only came through with the money but gave Lori the money that Erin was saving for ear surgery. I mean, what?!? How does one go from chasing Jess in a car with guns to making sure your not son is taken care of? This show, apparently. 

Jean Smart is a goddamn national treasure. 

Lori, I get that you're upset but I think rather than blaming Mare for the destruction of your family, you should maybe bitch out your scumbag husband, John. Just a thought. Julianne Nicholson knocked that scene out of the park, but all I could think as she was screaming at Mare was, STFU. 

Uh, I don't know much about how custody works but I have to think that a court is not going to just give over custody of DJ to the wife of the man who slept with his teenage cousin who also committed obstruction of justice (is Lori just gonna skate on that one?) I get that biology is involved but I think all of the crimes might make a court think twice about the Ross' fitness as guardians. I feel bad that Dylan's parents don't have a second shot at raising a kid that's not a total asshat. 

Here's what I don't understand - Why was Erin found naked at the creek? I guess I'm trying to figure out the logic of Billy and John taking her clothes since this wasn't a sexual assault. 

Thanks for stopping by and picking up a paycheck, Guy Pearce! 

 

[paigow]

Maybe Kenny & John will be cellmates... See who finishes making a toothbrush shiv first...

Season 2: Mare quits the police force to become a Prison Warden - new title is Mare of Oz

Edited May 31, 2021 by paigow

[Lady of nod]

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Wait: Who moved Erin's dead body from the park, stripped it, and laid it out at the creek?

John and Billy

[raven]

5 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

Um, no.  DJ is not the cause of Lori's family being ripped apart.  DJ is not the cause of anything (nor is he a "thing" as the writer keeps calling him).  He's an innocent child.    John is the POS that's responsible for everything that happened to Erin, Ryan, Lori and DJ and I find it highly disturbing that the person who wrote the dang series doesn't understand that.

Totally agree.  What a ridiculous statement by the showrunner.  The ultimate act of mercy would have been to leave DJ with Dylan's parents, which was what Erin wanted.

The show was trying to go for that with the "here's your brother" scene but the whole time I was thinking about Dylan's parents.

 

[JeanJean]

Picking up a  thread from numerous posters here, I wish DJ had stayed with Dylan's parents. Now he'll grow up in the midst of a very twisted family history whereas if he stayed with the Hincheys, his growing up years could be about him. Not to mention all the disappearing people he's already become attached to at an age far too young to have any grasp of what's happened. Trust selfish John to not think of what's best for DJ, not just the fact that "he's my son."

[tennisgurl]

I definitely need to think on this more, but John is still the real villain in all of this for me. Ryan might have killed Erin, but if John hadn't taken advantage of an emotionally vulnerable teenager in the first place none of this would have ever happened. I figured that there was more to the story when John was arrested and had confessed in the first ten minutes, but I wasnt sure about Ryan until the very end.  

The acting was top notch from everything, with Kate being the glue holding the whole show together, but everyone was really good. There were a whole lot of red herrings, especially Dylan going from dead eyed psycho to somewhat caring teen depending on what the show wanted to direct our guessing towards, probably some plot holes when I start sitting on it more, and some coincidences that ended up tying things up a bit too easily, but that is just how a lot of murder mysteries go. I am pretty satisficed at how things wrapped up, both with the mystery and with Mare and her tragic family history. It all ended up adding up pretty well, I really liked the show in general. 

I really wish they didnt kill off Colin though. In the end his death didnt even really mean much besides being shocking and sad. It wasnt even mentioned in the last episode except in a vague way. I would have really liked for to have survived.

Edited May 31, 2021 by tennisgurl

[raven]

3 minutes ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Why was Erin found naked at the creek?

Probably so there wouldn't be any DNA to recover from her clothes.

[Ursula Parrott]

Was Siobhan off to UC Berkeley or Berklee College of Music in Boston? The latter makes more sense.

[Laurawithcats]

16 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

I wonder how Kenny will react when he finds out that his own cousin was raping his daughter & the father of his grandson. Twisted to the core!

And now Kenny is in prison for attempting to murder Dylan who he believed murdered Erin. And isn't even the father, after all, of Erin's son. It's his cousin John who let everyone believe Dylan was the father and even comforted Kenny when Mare told him Erin had been killed. So, Kenny tried to kill Dylan for nothing and is now imprisoned for years. 

John is a sociopath..

The only good part is, at least Kenny doesn't have a chance of getting DJ. If he even wanted him. That poor child has enough on his plate without Kenny being his parent and role model. 

[marybennet]

3 minutes ago, Ursula Parrott said:

Was Siobhan off to UC Berkeley or Berklee College of Music in Boston? The latter makes more sense.

UC Berkeley, not for music but for media studies, where Berkeley really is strong.  

[ByaNose]

The Guy Pierce ending was dumb. He boffs Mare & then poof he’s gone. What was the point of him being there?! At first, I was disappointed by the beginning with John (and, Billy) secret being wrapped up in the first few minutes but then quickly realized the other shoe was about to drop. I just didn’t know how. 

It was kind of weird how Dylan didn’t rough up the girl again once she turned in the photo. Granted he wasn’t in the photo but it messed up his chance to be a father to a kid that wasn’t his. LOL!!!

Overall, it was a suspenseful & well done 7 episodes of television. It was a hit with our hometown since it was done here. Granted it was red herring after red herring but it sure kept people on their edge of their seats all the way through. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by ByaNose

[raven]

The AV Club reviewer articulates my feelings somewhat

Quote

Beyond the fact that it’s about three twists too many, Ryan’s involvement in Erin’s death significantly blunts its impact. The first episode does such an excellent job of introducing Erin that, even as it becomes obvious she’s destined to become a corpse, it’s hard to emotionally disengage from her. Finding out who killed Erin feels personal, and viewers have been as invested in solving this fake murder as true-crime fanatics are in solving real murders. That investment doesn’t seem as worthwhile when the show ultimately turns a heinous, deliberate act into a messy accident followed by a clumsy cover-up by Ryan’s family. Is it plausible? Certainly. Does it provide enough resolution? Certainly not.

Great point about Erin's impact.  I cared about her right away and there's so little mention of her and the loss to her son in the finale.  We see Jess looking at a few pictures but that's it.   I always felt Jess cared about Erin but it seems no one else really did. 

Also, putting the murder weapon in a child's hands because he didn't want his family broken up inadvertently places some blame on Erin, which is 1000% wrong.   We should have had all of the blame focused on John where it belongs.  I can understand Lori initially lashing out at Mare but we could have gotten some closure there by having Lori come around and blaming John for the destruction of the family.

[ByaNose]

5 minutes ago, Laurawithcats said:

And now Kenny is in prison for attempting to murder Dylan who he believed murdered Erin. And isn't even the father, after all, of Erin's son. It's his cousin John who let everyone believe Dylan was the father and even comforted Kenny when Mare told him Erin had been killed. So, Kenny tried to kill Dylan for nothing and is now imprisoned for years. 

John is a sociopath..

The only good part is, at least Kenny doesn't have a chance of getting DJ. If he even wanted him. That poor child has enough on his plate without Kenny being his parent and role model. 

I totally forgot they were cousins. Yup! John sure ain’t a prize. Poor Lori. A creepy husband and her young son is a murderer. That said, Lori blaming Mare for doing her job was ridiculous but she seemed to realize it later on.  

[tennisgurl]

8 minutes ago, raven said:

Great point about Erin's impact.  I cared about her right away and there's so little mention of her and the loss to her son in the finale.  We see Jess looking at a few pictures but that's it.   I always felt Jess cared about Erin but it seems no one else really did. 

 

Poor Erin was so unloved, no wonder she gravitated towards the first adult to give her some attention. She even ended up being put in the background of her own murder.

Edited May 31, 2021 by tennisgurl

[JeanJean]

Colin's mother should have said, "You just do what you want and don't care about the consequences! Like when you hogged that piece of wood and Jack froze to death in the ocean!"

[marybennet]

Like others, I wish Erin’s son had remained with Dylan’s parents, but I don’t think Inglesby is being heartless in the interview. He’s ventriloquizing what Lori might have said and thought at first, how she’d have seen D.J.  At first, she might blame him just as she wrongly blames Mare; it’s not our best characteristic as humans to do that, and it’s not unlike Ryan blaming Erin for his father’s destruction of their family. Inglesby has written her as coming to feel compassion for D.J.and to accept him, taking him in and calling him her children’s brother.  He seems to believe in that shift and to be writing it as a way to show it as valuable, though hard to achieve  

That said, I worry about all the imaginary children of imaginary Easttown.  The show is trying to be brighter and more hopeful at the end, but it’s hard to get past the extraordinarily bleak vision it has been setting up for weeks. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I just found out that Carrie was played by Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick's daughter, Sosie.

[ByaNose]

7 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I just found out that Carrie was played by Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick's daughter, Sosie.

Yup! I saw that in the credits earlier.

I just read an interview with Brad Ingelsby where he said, “I wanted to portray these communities (Delaware County) in a way that was honest — this is how close these people are”. I have lived in Delaware County my whole life and I can honestly say I have never accidentally shot anyone and I don’t talk like they did in the series. Honest! I swear! I wouldn’t lie about that. Well, I could but I’m not. LOL!!!!! I’m going to miss the show. It was great tv for 7 episodes. It was short but it was sweet.

[FemmyV]

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Jean Smart admits her parenting failures with Mare; is forgiven

  What bothered me about that: Mom admits to the screw up but she is the one who needs to be comforted. Mare is the one who was hurt by it but is denied any chance to express what anger she may have been carrying around. And that's why she's in therapy.

 

18 minutes ago, Laurawithcats said:

And now Kenny is in prison for attempting to murder Dylan who he believed murdered Erin. And isn't even the father, after all, of Erin's son. It's his cousin John who let everyone believe Dylan was the father and even comforted Kenny when Mare told him Erin had been killed. So, Kenny tried to kill Dylan for nothing and is now imprisoned for years.

If Lori and John had gone straight to the police, in all likelihood, they would have gone light on Ryan and the worst thing he would have had to deal with was Kenny coming after him.

I have a really hard time feeling very sorry for Lori. She was going to allow John to send his submissive brother to prison for the chronic statutory rape, and murder of a teenaged girl. How well was that going to go?

 

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Uh, are they really going to raise DJ as a brother alongside the person who killed his mother?

I mean, Ryan is so young that he's not an irredeemable criminal by any means, but that's still setting DJ up for a pretty rough time once he gets old enough to process the details of this case, which is obviously going to happen at some point.

It's a mess, but some things really are a mess. Ask your redneck grandparents.

One of the elements that is really strong in the series is the impact of shame, and how differently people react act to it. How some people are willing to carry their shame around and make horrible decisions to hide the acts that caused it. How some people are pressured into that path. Deacon Mark, early on, made bad decisions because of his shameful past. Ryan was pressured to hide his shame and the act that caused it. People in those small towns, especially in our grandparents' times, were carrying ALL that around.

 

 

1 hour ago, whiporee said:

The second set of girls and Zabel's entire arc was just a waste of time. Even the stuff about Mare's son was a waste, because we as viewers, were never allowed to understand it. Was he bipolar? We he crazy?

 

This is Mare's story. Not Zabel's. Not Kevin's, or Richard's. Mare.

 

[paigow]

15 minutes ago, marybennet said:

That said, I worry about all the imaginary children of imaginary Easttown.  The show is trying to be brighter and more hopeful at the end, but it’s hard to get past the extraordinarily bleak vision it has been setting up for weeks. 

The town pitched in to give Katie a new house...hopefully, she has a job as well.  

[Rowan]

I liked it. I mean even if the story had more red herrings than a season of Scooby Doo episodes, I never got pissed about them. 
 

The scene where Jean Smart tells Mare she’s already forgiven herself and she wants that for Mare, as well, got me. I felt that shit. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

27 minutes ago, Laurawithcats said:

And now Kenny is in prison for attempting to murder Dylan who he believed murdered Erin. And isn't even the father, after all, of Erin's son. It's his cousin John who let everyone believe Dylan was the father and even comforted Kenny when Mare told him Erin had been killed.  

When they went with Mare to notify Kenny on Erin’s death, Billy was a bit restless but John seemed normal. Earlier that morning when Lori told him about Erin, John asked her “Kenny’s Erin?” Geez John, is there more than one Erin in EastTown?

I’d like to think that the Hincheys will help Lori babysitting DJ from time to time. Ryan is willing to accept DJ as his brother, that’s a good start! They can’t rely on John. 

I was wrong about the incriminating photo. It’s John, sleeping. I don’t think he knows about the photo. Erin was smiling, was she in love with him? She kept it in her journal as if it’s so precious while Billy’s necklace was tossed in between drawers. The photo, it’s like seeing a beauty and a beast, scary! 😬

 

[MBayGal]

1 hour ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Hey show, for all the plot twists and red herrings, why do I have to endure watching Siobhan's love lives for several episodes???

Because every "serious" show -- and many that are not -- has to have an important character who is not straight. Didn't you get the memo?  

The whole Siobhan arc would have been exactly the same if she had been involved with a male.  Just gotta get that diversity in.

Edited May 31, 2021 by MBayGal

[FemmyV]

As it all settles in, and my cynical side kicks in, it's hard not to mention how everyone could have been spared a lot of grief if Erin hadn't been so mistreated and lonely that she thought it was a good idea to have and raise her married cousin's kid, at her age. Even if she couldn't bring herself to an abortion, as nice and sweet as she seemed, she really wasn't thinking of what was best for DJ, when she decided to raise him and finger Dylan as the dad.

 

But bad decisions make better stories.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

It did make sense that John finally took the blame for it and Lori lied to Mare about it, since it was their son. However, John is the biggest asshole for manipulating Billy into taking the blame and then planning to murder him. Why not just take the blame from the beginning, John?

Because he had a family.  But really, he's just a selfish asshole.  One that isn't ready for his kid to go in jail but one who is ready to sacrifice just about anyone else.

1 hour ago, whiporee said:

John sucks for trying to pin it all on Billy, and for screwing Erin and a whiole bunch of stuff, but I can't blame him for trying to take the fall to protect Ryan, especially since what Ryan did was fundamentally his fault. He's actually better than Lori, who was willing to let John go to jail for murder even though she knew the truth.

John's better than Lori?  John committed statutory rape of his cousin's child. John was initially going to frame teenagers in the park for the murder.  Awful teens, sure, but teenagers who didn't kill Erin.  Next he was going to get his brother to take the fall but actually.  And he was going to accomplish this not by having Billy go to jail but by making it look like Billy committed suicide out of guilt.  He only confessed as a last resort short of telling the whole truth.

And if my husband had done all that, I'd sacrifice his ass too in order to protect my son. The baby should have stayed with DJ's parents because there's no way I'd be raising his child that also wasn't biologically mine at that point.

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Still if his main crime was having an affair with Erin and trying to cover up the murderer, why was he considering killing Billy or himself over it?  Maybe just to have another little cliffhanger, with Mare coming to the rescue?

He knew people suspected Billy.  His dad had seen Billy cleaning up the blood.  He figured that if he could stage his brother's suicide, people would just assume his brother had killed himself to not have to pay for his "crimes" and they wouldn't look any further.  There's also less of a chance Billy cracks during interrogation and tells the truth.

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

I don't know what the law would say, maybe that's absolutely correct. But John isn't there, he's in prison. Lori is no more related to him than Dylan’s parents. At the very least, I'd think there would have been an extended custody case. But apparently the parents just...gave Lori the baby? I just find that hard to believe.

John is the biological father.  He'd have the right to decide where his child goes.  DJ's parents could try to fight for custody but they'd likely lose as the courts are pretty stuck to biology.  John can assign custody to whoever he wants.

I think another red herring that they just didn't address is the thing that made me suspect John was the father in the first place--and that was Frank claiming he barely knew Erin (his student) when he was seen taking diapers to her. It made Mare run the DNA test which showed that Frank was not the father.  If he knew John were the father, the lying and the helping would make sense.  But since it seems as if he didn't know, it doesn't.

[luna1122]

22 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

John is the biological father.  He'd have the right to decide where his child goes.  DJ's parents could try to fight for custody but they'd likely lose as the courts are pretty stuck to biology.  John can assign custody to whoever he wants.

 

I'm horrified if that's true. A man who commits statutory rape, a criminal and the would be murderer of his own brother...gets to have the final say in where the poor child winds up...cuz biology? What a fucked up system. Still hard to imagine Dylan’s parents would have just accepted that without a fight. Also hard to believe Lori would just accept that role. I have a feeling she'll STILL take the douchebag back once he's out of prison. 

 

. 

 

 

[gatopretoNYC]

So the envelope of money Erin had hidden, that Dylan took when they burned her diaries - where did that money come from?

[Lily H]

I couldn't help feeling unsatisfied by they way they ended this show. I wasn't buying Ryan's claims about it being an accident. We saw in other scenes that he's an accomplished liar. He stole a loaded gun and lay in wait for the girl he blamed (instead of his sleazebag father!). That's premeditation. And Lori belongs in jail, instead of flapping her self-righteous yap at Mare for doing her job. I guess in Easttown, you get away with obstruction of justice and accessory to murder if you're an old friend of a cop. And somehow Dylan has miraculously transformed from gun-wielding thug who cheered on the beating of his ex-girlfriend into a benevolent dispenser of cash for D.J.

[shoetingstar]

4 hours ago, JeanJean said:

So why did Dylan threaten Jess with a gun?

I cried during the arresting of Ryan section. 

Jess told them that Dylan did not want the real father found. He knows Erin would have written about that person in her journals. He thought it would break his parent's heart. They left clues that he actually didn't want to give up the baby. He's still trash but felt an attachment to the baby.

Now, I have no clue what the other dude got out of this arrangement, however! And I'm super surprised his parent didn't try to fight or set-up some kind of arrangement. 

Now, my question is did we get a real answer as to where he went the night Erin died?

[violet and green]

3 hours ago, whiporee said:

Even the stuff about Mare's son was a waste, because we as viewers, were never allowed to understand it. Was he bipolar? We he crazy? Just an asshole? What actually happened?

He was an addict. I thought they made it clear enough, especially in the early episodes, about the harm drugs had caused to members of the Easttown communities, and the desperate behaviors that ensued with some of them when in need of a fix. Sad. Maybe it helps to have known a lot of addicts... Loads of the ones I've known have died like that.

[shoetingstar]

The highly upsetting male fridging of Colin Zebal was beyond unfortunate. I adored him and Evan Peter in general! There were so many times BEFORE that even that could have been a turning point for Mare. I also hate that they took Zebal's crime solving victory away. It seem to be just so Mare could confess the planting of the drugs.

Otherwise, I feel actually satisfied with this ending. That's huge for me as I've had my enjoyment for a series severely reduced by an unsatisfactory finale (I'm not even talking about GOT here!) - Lovecraft Country, for example. It may be because I just started and binge-watched the show this week. I didn't follow it week to week which creates a longer anticipation, of course. The longer we have to speculate, the harder it is to accept what you're actually given on finale day.

I appreciate  how they dealt with Mental Illness and grief - could have done more, but they did better than most. I liked her changing just enough but not in a jarring way. The acting was superb - Kate is just a master, and the rest of the cast amazing as well. 

Guy Pearce seems like wasted casting though. I kept telling myself he has to have a huge secret for him to be cast in that role. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by shoetingstar
I meant: The longer we have to speculate, the harder it is to accept what you're actually given on finale day.

[violet and green]

I have a few lingering concerns... that blue van that was used to kidnap the last girl was a dark blue van with a ladder on top; and the one outside the guy who killed Zabel was a lighter mid-blue and had no roof racks. That annoys me. And the guy who kidnapped her was cleanshaven with distinct dark hair and mid-ear-length sideburns. But there was talk by one of the girls of a man with a beard, the guy they caught was an unkempt grub, and the idea of some others involved was dropped or left as a red herring.

Boring Siobhan and her boring lovelife was, in the end, really there to give the backstory of Mare's son, without doing a great wad of exposition. I resent all the time the show spent on her boring lovelife and/or sulking.

Richard just drove off! I was expecting a shot later of a stunned Mare looking at a hardback with the title, "Mare of Easttown".

I thought it was Lori also, after the gun went missing. The kid who turned out to be the murderer all along seemed to me to be about 6 years old, hahaha, so I didn't suspect him

It was a classy series, but I feel a bit let down after all that.

 

[BingeyKohan]

Something else I’m confused about: one of the things that makes Mare rethink the John scenario is Frank talking about how normal he seemed all night, even at the end of it when he drove them home. But in the flashbacks it looked like Ryan called him at the house party, not even the bar afterward, so he still knew all night (certainly by the time he drove F&F home) that his son had killed Erin, right? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The thing that really annoyed me about both Ryan and Lori was how they both placed blame on the women in the situation rather than the actual guilty parties.

Instead of blaming his married father for fucking around on his mom, Ryan blamed Erin and went to the trouble of stealing a gun to threaten her. Somehow the man who was putting his penis in a minor was not responsible for his own actions at all.

Same goes for Lori. She blamed Mare, who was just doing her job and getting to the truth of what actually happened, instead of the people who were responsible for this: her husband for fucking his own teenage cousin and then making his son keep it a secret or the son who was waving a stolen gun around.

When Mare told Ryan that he would be okay in juvie, I initially thought, "Really?" Then I remembered that he's pretty handy with a cafeteria tray so he'll probably be fine.

One thing that made me laugh was the conversation between Jess and the police chief. He asked why she and Dylan burned Erin's journals. Jess said they were afraid Erin had written something about who DJ's real father was and that they didn't want anyone to find that information because it would mean Dylan's parents losing custody of DJ. Jess specifically told the chief she thought that Erin would have wanted DJ to remain with Dylan's parents and she was trying to honor her friend's wishes, which fine. But she was trying to honor her friend's wish so much that as soon as she found the picture of Erin with John, she handed it over to the police which defeated the purpose of burning Erin's diaries in the first place.

I know Lori thinks she's doing the right thing by taking custody of DJ, but I really hope that she allows Dylan's parents to continue seeing DJ. They clearly love DJ regardless of the lack of blood ties.

7 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

John is the biggest asshole for manipulating Billy into taking the blame and then planning to murder him. Why not just take the blame from the beginning, John? Also, he's an asshole for having a sexual "relationship" with a 15 or 16 year old girl

WHO HE IS RELATED TO!

7 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

So, is John a free man now?

 

7 hours ago, HollyG said:

John still had sex with a minor. That would mean jail time, though he probably got less than if he'd killed her.  

They definitely have him on having sex with a minor since DJ exists and the court can do math. They could also charge him with obstruction of justice, accessory to murder, tampering with evidence, corruption of a minor (once for Ryan, once for Erin), attempted murder (for Billy), brandishing a weapon, etc.

7 hours ago, Laurawithcats said:

John is pure garbage. He had sex with a child and got her pregnant. He lied by omission about DJ being his. This is the 2nd affair too. He involved his brother and even debated murdering him to cover his tracks. 

He doesn't get a pass for attempting to take the fall for the murder of Erin. Everything that happened was bc he cheated, again, on his wife and his son found out. His son, who is now fked up for life for trying to save his family.

John is just terrible. He cheated on his wife five years ago with a married woman. Then he cheated on his wife with an underage girl who he's related to, got her pregnant, refused to pay for his child's surgery, made his son keep the affair a secret, made his wife promise not to tell her best friend about any of it, told his brother to say that he had killed his cousin/abuse victim, then took his brother to a remote cabin with the intent to kill him so that he could blame his own brother for sleeping with and murdering their teenage cousin. He showed absolutely no remorse for ANY of it. And then, like the coward that he is, begged Mare to kill him so that he wouldn't have to face the consequences of his actions.

6 hours ago, buckboard said:

We may never know what the point of Dylan destroying Erin's diary was, but it did provide Jess the opportunity to find the incriminating photograph.

What cracked me up about that whole situation was the fact that Erin, a girl who was a teenager in the year 2021, took a selfie of the adult relative she was sleeping with and then printed the photo and put it in her diary. I know kids do print some pictures but just the idea that she walked to CVS to print this photo so she could hide it really took me out of the moment.

6 hours ago, aghst said:

Still if his main crime was having an affair with Erin and trying to cover up the murderer, why was he considering killing Billy or himself over it?  Maybe just to have another little cliffhanger, with Mare coming to the rescue?

Because he knew that if people found out he had been fucking his teenage cousin, his life was over. If he killed Billy and then told everyone that Billy was DJ's father, then John would still get to keep his life the way it was. He was being selfish for the zillionth time in his life. Billy was right in the previous episode when he said, "You made a mess of your life cause you couldn't keep your dick in your fucking pants. Now you clean it up. I'm holding him accountable, pop. Someone needs to for once in his goddamn life."

5 hours ago, Ursula Parrott said:

Was Siobhan off to UC Berkeley or Berklee College of Music in Boston? The latter makes more sense.

UC Berkeley because Anne (the college DJ who Siobhan started seeing) had a media professor her freshman year who got a position at Cal. After watching Siobhan's documentary about her brother, Anne recommended that Siobhan talk to the professor and consider applying to Berkeley. I was just glad that Siobhan was able to get the hell out of her small town and start over somewhere new. The only thing that surprised me was that Mare and Frank let their only child drive all the way across the country by herself. I thought one of them would drive with her, help her get settled, and then fly back.

4 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Because every "serious" show -- and many that are not -- has to have an important character who is not straight. Didn't you get the memo?  

The whole Siobhan arc would have been exactly the same if she had been involved with a male.  Just gotta get that diversity in.

Yes, God forbid that a tv show not have 100% heterosexual relationships. Aside from DJ/Erin/John and Carrie/Mare's son, a lot of the character arcs would have been exactly the same if they had been involved in LGBTQIA relationships. The memo from 2021 is that there are a lot of non-straight people in this world so having three gay characters (two of whom were tertiary) on a show that had a cast of over 30 people is not exactly a stretch of the imagination for representing reality.

Edited May 31, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Snazzy Daisy]

DJ = Dylan John

Wow Erin, can it be more obvious?

 

[BingeyKohan]

23 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What cracked me up about that whole situation was the fact that Erin, a girl who was a teenager in the year 2021, took a selfie of the adult relative she was sleeping with and then printed the photo and put it in her diary. I know kids do print some pictures but just the idea that she walked to CVS to print this photo so she could hide it really took me out of the moment.

Between this and trying to return her creepy incest locket for cash, Erin was a world-class errand runner!
 

Back to my locket nitpicking one last time - the show would have been better off keeping it so the receipt only said Ross, to keep the ambiguity they obviously wanted. Part of me thinks it was a production mistake to include Billy’s name in the far corner of the frame.

Finally (I promise I did love this show) while I certainly didn’t expect Mare’s former basketball glory to be relevant to the mystery it got so much attention at the start that in retrospect I’m just like ... why?

 

6 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

DJ = Dylan John

Wow Erin, can it be more obvious?

 

I’m surprised it didn’t stand for Daddy=John.

Edited May 31, 2021 by BingeyKohan

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

I certainly didn’t expect Mare’s former basketball glory to be relevant to the mystery it got so much attention at the start that in retrospective I’m just like ... why?

I think they were just trying to establish Mare's deep ties to Lori, Dawn, and Beth and how far they go back. And it also gave a definitive marker to their ages since the game was 25 years ago, which highlighted the age difference between Mare and Colin a few episodes later when he said that he went to his reunion.

6 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

Erin was a world-class errand runner!

Especially considering that she didn't have a car!

[rlc]

6 hours ago, ByaNose said:

The Guy Pierce ending was dumb. He boffs Mare & then poof he’s gone. What was the point of him being there?! At first, I was disappointed by the beginning with John (and, Billy) secret being wrapped up in the first few minutes but then quickly realized the other shoe was about to drop. I just didn’t know how. 

I thought it was part of showing how Mare was healing through therapy; she was opening herself up to another relationship, relating better to her mother and daughter, and becoming part of the extended family with her ex and the new wife.

My favorite moment of the episode was when Lori forgave Mare, and they both literally collapsed from the weight of their grief, but Mare found the strength to hold Lori and hopefully forgive herself. I woke up thinking about that scene, and the scenes with Ryan and Lori. I’m not at all disappointed with the finale.

[Dminches]

I understand why most of the discussion is about "whodunit" (murder, kidnapping, impregnating Erin), but this show was about Mare, a 40-something cop in a small community who lost her son and is now trying to live with that grief.  People who have not experienced this just do not understand how it consumes you and spreads through every aspect of your life.

It is no uncommon for marital relationships to end after losing a child.  After all, the child is s product of 2 people. Then there is the difficulty of trying to start another one.  For Mare, it was not surprising that she did not even bother until spending some time with a therapist.  She also had to figure out how to relate to her daughter who was the surviving child.  Mare was stoic (it is hard to tell what she was like before then) but loss rips the life out of you.

Going to therapy was a huge step forward for Mare but also so difficult.  One does not want to even talk about what they are feeling since the thoughts are so deep.

I really like how Mare tried to coach Mr. Carroll by saying you never get over the loss, you just learn to live with the unacceptable.

From someone who has lived through this I thought they did an excellent job of portraying what it is like.

Kate Winslet is such an amazing actress.  

 

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, SeanC said:

Uh, are they really going to raise DJ as a brother alongside the person who killed his mother?

I mean, Ryan is so young that he's not an irredeemable criminal by any means, but that's still setting DJ up for a pretty rough time once he gets old enough to process the details of this case, which is obviously going to happen at some point.

Especially if they stay in Easttown where everybody knows what happened and people talk. I wouldn’t have it in me to raise him in Lori’s shoes; he’d have to go into the system. And that would be John’s fault, not mine. When Lori was like “I would have taken the secret to my grave if it weren’t for [Mare]” I thought, “lady, your anger is EXTREMELY misplaced.” Which I guess she got by the end.

Why did Siobhan drive across the country? Surely a detective can afford a plane ticket?

[paigow]

Hard to believe that Siobhan and her friends could cover a Pat Benatar song, Not in their Indie wheelhouse.....

[bosawks]

4 minutes ago, paigow said:

Hard to believe that Siobhan and her friends could cover a Pat Benatar song, Not in their Indie wheelhouse.....

Pat Benatar knows no boundaries!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

35 minutes ago, Dminches said:

I really like how Mare tried to coach Mr. Carroll by saying you never get over the loss, you just learn to live with the unacceptable.

I liked that after all the time she spent being annoyed that she had respond to his wife's phone calls about the peeper, she ended up being very kind about becoming the husband's unofficial grief counselor. This short conversation shows that being in therapy really helped her learn how to deal with the loss of her son. I'm pretty sure that if the conversation with Mr. Carroll had happened at the beginning of the season, she wouldn't have been able to verbalize even the little that she told him in this episode.

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm pretty sure that if the conversation with Mr. Carroll had happened at the beginning of the season, she wouldn't have been able to verbalize even the little that she told him in this episode.

Mare: How does an old cop not have a gun safe?