S15.E06: Different Wives, Different Rules

[Rabbit Hutch]

8 hours ago, itsadryheat said:

Was Robyn always the dark queen or did she grow into that role?

I ask because her early years showed someone with a little spirit, smiled, wanted to be part of the "team". (I guess you could say this about all of them to an extent.) So was she always an opportunist, and her Lehi personality a cover to be unleashed when the time was right, emboldened by Kody's blind devotion.

For someone that gets what she wants, she sure does not look happy or healthy. Season after season she touted how important her sister wives relationships are to her.

Currently, her dour mug and dead attitude exudes Let Them Eat Cake.

Wanna bet that there is a painting of her in the attic that's growing more twisted and knarly by the minute?  🥴

Edited March 25, 2021 by Rabbit Hutch

[MargeGunderson]

31 minutes ago, absolutelyido said:

So, Janelle, Gabe and Savannah are sitting outside in lawn chairs lamenting how they can't see Kody because of the pandemic. Because apparently it didn't occur to anyone that Kody could come by and pull up a lawn chair 10 feet away and be perfectly safe.

What I take from that is that all of them were just fine not seeing each other. Kody’s a pathetic excuse for a father, and those kids know it.

[Chris Knight]

3 hours ago, Granny58 said:

you're less cynical than me because you see it as an actual offer.  To me, a person who has dealt with fertility issues, it struck me as a stealth way of saying "see, I'm fertile and you're not."  Who the hell offers their uterus as they're giving birth (or shortly afterwards) for crying out loud.  IMO, it was cruel, not generous.  

100% agree. 

[suev3333]

Robyn and her freaking mansion.   Are you kidding me?🙄

[Art Of Noiz]

13 hours ago, Sandy W said:

He is delusional enough to believe that the most prestigious law firm in Utah would take on his case Pro Bono, simply for the opportunity to be associated with this polygamist "hero". 

Drew Briney might.

[Roslyn]

6 hours ago, Onceafan said:

I caught up on the most recent episodes, and had 7 pages of notes jotted down just for Kody. To avoid a very long post on every red flag and issue that I identified with him, I'll just start with the biggest I saw. Counselor hat on....

Kody: Fair weathered, projective identification with emotional blackmail tendencies,

Projective identification:

It is a type of controlled manipulation that Kody often uses on his wives that leads them to act in a way that justifies in his own mind, his negative attitude and behavior towards them. Let’s take Kody being on his phone consistently when he is over at Christine’s residence, or what we usually refer to as the silent treatment.

Whenever a spouse withdraws or becomes non communicative for long periods of time it signals to the other that there is a problem in the relationship, leaving in this case Christine to wonder “what did she do wrong to upset him?” This leads to two possible outcomes, both which play into Kody’s manipulation.

The first is the spouse, Christine, will try to cater to the silent person in anyway possible, just to keep the peace and get things back to normal, since she knows there are competitive households that she is up against.   I saw this when Christine mentioned that she has spoken to Kody about his schedules with the wives, but he gets annoyed and angry, so she just tries not to think about it or mention it to him anymore.

In this case, her valid concern over the inequality of time he spends with her was silenced by her attempt to placate him. Therefore the problem/concern is never really resolved, and Kody continues to use a withdrawal of communication as a manipulation tactic to control his own schedule or other desires.

This type of manipulation ties into his emotional blackmail tendencies with his wives. He is able to control the amount of communication, attention, time, and affection that each wife receives, leading to a reward/punishment emotional shutoff power dynamic. Kody has other wives, or resources if you will, to have his emotional and physical needs met, while each wife’s needs are solely dependent upon him.  This control dynamic allows him to be fair weathered in his marriages, leaving the wives to learn that they themselves are responsible for any negative outcomes in the marriage because they did not comply to Kody’s desire of not wanting to be burdened but to visit an always happy always devoted household when it is their designated time.  

The second outcome that usually occurs from the silent treatment, is that the spouse, in this case Christine, becomes upset by that behavior, loses composure, and can launch a verbal altercation.  In projective identification, Kody would then use Christine’s reactional behavioral response, not his own, as his justification to not want to spend time with her, which then gives him the freedom of either leaving that residence to go to another that is being more compliant, or stonewalling her in his time there. 

Sorry, I tried to make this as short as possible, With Kody, I could just go on and on.

 

Kody's emotional manipulation is so hard to watch and there are times that I have to stop the video and just come back to it later.  His "control" of his family is sickening imo. He gets so angry when he doesn't get the cheering at his announcements or the exact behavior that he wants to see at any given moment. You could probably use certain scenes on the show over the years to show the nuances of the behavior.

Kudos to your observations...go on as much as you like!  We love an observant eye around here 😉

[Art Of Noiz]

12 hours ago, itsadryheat said:

Was Robyn always the dark queen or did she grow into that role?

I ask because her early years showed someone with a little spirit, smiled, wanted to be part of the "team". (I guess you could say this about all of them to an extent.) So was she always an opportunist, and her Lehi personality a cover to be unleashed when the time was right, emboldened by Kody's blind devotion.

For someone that gets what she wants, she sure does not look happy or healthy. Season after season she touted how important her sister wives relationships are to her.

Currently, her dour mug and dead attitude exudes Let Them Eat Cake.

I never saw her interact much with Janelle or Christine, even on the couch. Now that she doesn't have much of a relationship with Meri, it must be wearing her down.  

[suev3333]

On 3/22/2021 at 3:04 PM, laurakaye said:

Dang...Truely really is the lost child...can't even get her own birthday.  And I can't think of a worse person to have to share it with, except perhaps Robyn.  Or, heaven forbid, Kody.

 

This is not the first time Kodork and Sobbyn have done this - called a family meeting with the intention that all children must be present.  What I found funny is that Ariablobloa talked right over her big sister Aurora when Kody asked for Aurora's opinion.  I couldn't even hear Aurora over the chattering but that actually made it better, lol.  It's like Kody and Robyn watched back the footage and felt like they had to explain why Baby Sister was allowed to talk over Big Sister.  It's because she's a child, and she should've been left to play with her dolls while you all had your big important meeting.  But you know Kody - where we go one, we go all!  Even to sit at the dining room table!!

Idiots.

 

Lmao.    "Kodork".  That had me on the floor laughing for some reason... 🤣 thanks!

[itsadryheat]

1 hour ago, Roslyn said:

His "control" of his family is sickening imo. He gets so angry when he doesn't get the cheering at his announcements or the exact behavior that he wants to see at any given moment.

I watched an older episode about Kody's birthday. The wives chipped in and got him a mac laptop. His response was a disappointing, "I wanted something fun-now I have to go to work", clearly bumming out the wives. Then he was disappointed that they were disappointed. High maintenance, this guy.

[Tdoc72]

On 3/23/2021 at 4:47 PM, Pingaponga said:

One thing I have realized watching this is how much I have forgotten from the beginning of the pandemic. When someone (Robyn?) was talking about leaving your shopping in the cold for 24 hours to kill the virus, I remembered that we wiped all the groceries down with disinfectant wipes after grocery shopping. I had totally forgotten that we did that for a good couple of months, and man, I am so glad I'm not doing that any more.

But it got me thinking...we now know that someone like Janelle is at an increased risk of hospitalization/death because of her weight, but did we know that last March/April? Or was the assumption at the beginning that everyone was equally at risk? We definitely didn't know anything about long Covid then.

I'm just wondering how I would have interpreted their decisions a year ago, when this was all starting, rather than now, when hindsight is 2020.

This is why I cut Gabe some slack too.  I remember at first “they” were saying that kids and young adults weren’t going to get it. So he was kind of no big whoop and I’ll continue my life. 

[ReadMeLattice]

Interesting to read all the thoughts about Robyn. I agree with most that she had a scheme in mind from the beginning - even if she herself wasn’t even fully conscious that she had one, if that makes sense.

However, I don’t see Meri specifically as quite as much of a victim as others do. I think Robyn’s manipulations and machinations affected Meri the most precisely because she was previously “the dark queen” herself. Janelle and Maddie have both called Meri abusive to the point that Janelle didn’t even feel comfortable being in a car alone with her or sharing a kitchen. She said Meri mocked her looks and made sure to let Janelle know in every way that she wasn’t welcome. 

I think they all had their roles to play - Christine the besotted one, dismissed as hysterical by Kody, for example, and Janelle the most submissive one in the sense that she didn’t challenge or demand anything from Kody. The family dynamic shifted when the existing queen was ousted and we’ve been witnessing the fallout of the two biggest manipulators vying for position as Kody’s favorite, with Meri longing for the time when she was and Robyn lording it over her now. Christine and Janelle never stood a chance. 

I think Meri’s self-esteem has been affected by the years of loneliness and poor treatment by Kody, but I also think she knows she could choose to leave if she wanted. I think the lifestyle afforded to her by the show and the media attention she gets from it is very important to her, as it is to Robyn. They’re similar in that way and many others. 

Of course, it’s hard to fault any of them at all when they have someone as indisputably toxic and selfish as Kody at the center. They are all, including Meri and Robyn, the ongoing victims of Kody’s manipulation. And while he’s a bumbling fool, he is one skilled manipulator and gaslighter. He casts them in roles and pits them against each other; none of them, even Robyn, are truly fully fleshed out people to him. He’s many times worse than any of them. That would bring out the worst in anyone. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by ReadMeLattice

[Granny58]

16 hours ago, NoWhammies said:

Putting on my therapist hat. I'll apologize for my armchair diagnosis. I know many of you dislike those - but I do have the background and education in family therapy (I am not a practicing family therapist) to make at least an educated guess. I'd be unable to make an actual diagnosis from anything I see on TV, but as the Brown fambily masks have slipped over the years of this show, there are breadcrumbs that point in a certain direction. I've been rewatching all seasons from the start with that in mind, because I actually find it a fascinating case study into a type of family dysfunction that most people would never even get a peek into. Disclaimer: this is not a professional diagnosis nor is it intended to be one. It is merely observations and supposition based on my understanding of human behavior.

What I think we're seeing is textbook family dysfunction, amplified significantly due to family size, polygamy, cultural and religious pressure, conditioning, and Kody's and Robyn's undiagnosed personality disorders.

Meri definitely has personal issues she needs to work out, but so do we all. Her defensive and dysfunctional behaviors have amplified over the years, and understandably so. The catfishing was a cry for help and an attempt to find a solution to feeling trapped in something that suddenly stopped working for her. It was magical thinking; Meri believed it was her out, and she probably believed God sent her the opportunity. When it turned out that it was all a sham, it must've felt to her just another slap in the face from God.

Add to that the fact that, for all her life, Meri was led to believe that if one doesn't do well in polygamy, it is due to a personal weakness and inability to subjugate oneself to God's will. Imagine how disorienting that must feel, to be told all your life that "keep sweet' philosophy, and to believe that if polygamy feels personally uncomfortable, it's because of YOU - because God entrusted this to you and dammit, you're fucking it up (I firmly believe Fucking It Up should be a diagnosis in the DSM-5). Add to that the religious tenet (or tenant as the Brown family likes to call it) that spirit babies wait in Heaven to come to moms along with Meri's fertility issues, and I can imagine that in Meri's mind, she feels somehow unworthy or as if she has failed in her duty and must, therefore, be in some way offensive to God. In other words, it's highly likely that Meri believes that Heavenly Father hates her, and because of her religious background, she can't find any other possible explanation for that. And she is terrified others will arrive at that conclusion, as well, so she as she puts it, builds walls in hopes that others won't notice that she is somehow displeasing to God.

I believe Meri also suffers from CPTSD (complex PTSD - often the result of being on the receiving end of years of narcissistic abuse). Watch her in family gatherings; she's afraid to speak because she no longer trusts her own instincts, and she doesn't feel safe using her voice, which leads to her defensive outbursts and attempts to control every situation with passive aggression or outright aggression. With that being said, Robyn zeroed in on Meri as her chief rival and has slowly whispered in everyone's ear everything she sees as "wrong" with Meri while acting to Meri's face like she loooooooovvvvvvveeees her. So Robyn has been quietly sewing the seeds of discord among the entire family with a smile on her face and a gently furrowed brow of "concern." When you watch Robyn in talking heads, you'll see that the gently furrowed brow is one of her go-to moves of manipulation (along with the affects of crying minus the tears). It's how she deflects from her own duplicity. 

I believe Robyn was so threatened by Meri's first and legal wife status, that she has waged a stealth bitch campaign (Stealth Bitch should also be in the DSM-5) from the very beginning. Why? Because SHE should have been there since the start, not Meri. Hell, it was her opening line, and as someone rightly pointed out, it's popped out in some seriously dysfunctional ways over the years like the highly inappropriate and damaging purity speech and the super craptastic drawing she had made of Kootie and the kids (thumbs up, Robyn!).

The clues are often subtle (but not always), but they are there. Robyn has succeeded in making Meri the family scapegoat (or identified patient) who then becomes the perceived source of all fambily dysfunction. Kootie was the first to buy into this scapegoating, but you can specifically see it from many of the family adults now, including all three other wives, Meri herself, Maddie, and Mariah. They can scapegoat Meri and deflect from their own dysfunction and cognitive dissonance arising from how their religion says this should all go versus their own personal experience. 

Meri loved Robyn and feels she invited Robyn into the fambily. She most likely did this in an attempt to appease God, who she was already sure was mad at her or found her unworthy. Bringing in Robyn was an attempt to make her worthy in God's eyes and in Kootie's. On the surface, Robyn expresses love and gratitude to Meri for doing this while scheming for Meri's downfall underneath. So Meri is experiencing cognitive dissonance. The dysfunctional way humans psychologically attempt to resolve cognitive dissonance is through rationalization and justification, and Meri lacks the psychological tools or understanding to deal with these things in a healthy manner. Viewed through that lens, Meri's behavior, defensiveness, and victimhood are a natural reaction of someone who is poorly psychologically equipped to handle Robyn's machinations.

Robyn has many observable tools of deceit that serve to deflect from her behaviors: faux empathy, crying (or pretending to), martyrdom, fake soft sweetness, faux concern with her furrowed brow - the list goes on and on. The fambily eats that shit up with a spoon rather than recognizing what's actually happening because it's easier to see Meri as bad than to acknowledge they have welcomed someone dangerous into their fold. 

What you're seeing is family dysfunction, magnified large. I think Nancy has actually done as good of a job as she can with these people, but they are all so blind to their own dysfunction due to their cultural and religious influences that Nancy is missing some tools to truly help them, and I doubt they'd be willing to be called on their shit (should be a therapeutic term IMHO) anyway. Meri is the product of years of manipulation, gaslighting (true gaslighting, not the pop psych crap people point out as gaslighting these days), misogyny, and religious indoctrination. I have great compassion for her while still acknowledging that she does some super fucked up shit in response to her situation.

I feel like I should be embarrassed that I have thought this deeply about it, but I own my own dysfunction so there you go!

Thank you so much.  I always appreciate insight from professionals, yourself and Onceafan.  

[OdinO.]

18 hours ago, Granny58 said:

agreed.  I am one of the few who didn't fault Meri through the catfishing, because of how hurt and lonely she must have been.  

I don't blame her at all. I just wish he had been real and Kody got what should be coming for him. That's where I stand.

 

[Granny58]

18 minutes ago, OdinO. said:

I don't blame her at all. I just wish he had been real and Kody got what should be coming for him. That's where I stand.

 

THAT would have been delicious. 

[laurakaye]

15 hours ago, Onceafan said:

The second outcome that usually occurs from the silent treatment, is that the spouse, in this case Christine, becomes upset by that behavior, loses composure, and can launch a verbal altercation.  In projective identification, Kody would then use Christine’s reactional behavioral response, not his own, as his justification to not want to spend time with her, which then gives him the freedom of either leaving that residence to go to another that is being more compliant, or stonewalling her in his time there. 

*ahem* @Onceafan and @NoWhammies?  Please feel free to drop your Brown family studies here any time you want.  I think many of us love reading insight on these people, and I especially do because while I know they're all kinds of messed up, I don't have the background to figure out why.  Also - can you please do Janelle next?  I'll make you a tray of peanut-butter Fritos in exchange. 🙂

As for the above paragraph, the entire post was wonderful but this stood out to me because it was stated so clearly - Kody is the King of Chaos.  He is purposely frazzled and manipulative and a professional time-waster to draw out negative reactions from his wives that then allow him to justify bailing on them for another wife's house.  He is the adult equivalent of a toddler who is throwing a tantrum because he hasn't gotten his nap and diaper change - impossible to rationalize with, impossible to make plans for, impossible to have a coherent discussion with.  But this is the man that you've married and are attempting to raise a family with!  There is absolutely no winning here.  He has proven his flakiness in every type of situation and unfortunately, he has also proven it in times when he absolutely needed to man up  - Truely's illness and Ysabel's surgery come to mind.  He doesn't want to be there for the hard stuff, so he fluffs off to where the living is easy.  And yet the Big Three continually look to them as their "leader" and constantly try to simper to him and placate him.

Also, regarding Robyn - do we think she's actually a sociopath?  I have long wondered.  Her personality doesn't match up with the common traits of a sociopath, but her false empathy and manipulation has been on display since Season 1 if you do a rewatch.  I hate to call her an evil genius but she got exactly what she wanted, she took her time and let her plan unfold slowly and carefully, and in the end she was victorious at the expense of three women she constantly claims to love.  I get a distinct unsettled feeling in my gut when I watch her on my screen.  I feel like that has to mean something.  

[WhatsUpDummy]

9 hours ago, itsadryheat said:

I watched an older episode about Kody's birthday. The wives chipped in and got him a mac laptop. His response was a disappointing, "I wanted something fun-now I have to go to work", clearly bumming out the wives. Then he was disappointed that they were disappointed. High maintenance, this guy.

I remember that.  And Robyn immediately jumped up and said "I knew he didn't want a laptop".  Why didn't she say something at the gift brainstorming session the wives had? Christine was pissed!  Basically said that from then on he can pick out his own stupid gift and they'll go and pick it up.  

[Twopper]

11 hours ago, suev3333 said:

This is not the first time Kodork and Sobbyn have done this

Last rites.  DEAD. Arms across chest. Joined the choir invisible.  Buried.

Kodork!!!! what a perfect name for this frenetic moron.

5 hours ago, ReadMeLattice said:

However, I don’t see Meri specifically as quite as much of a victim as others do. I think Robyn’s manipulations and machinations affected Meri the most precisely because she was previously “the dark queen” herself. Janelle and Maddie have both called Meri abusive to the point that Janelle didn’t even feel comfortable being in a car alone with her or sharing a kitchen. She said Meri mocked her looks and made sure to let Janelle know in every way that she wasn’t welcome. 

I see Janelle as another dark queen who finagled a marriage to her former SIL's husband and violated at least the spirit of the commandment against coveting her neighbor's spouse. I loathe Janelle.   I wouldn't welcome a sister wife under those conditions.  And no one in this original dysfunctional family of 3 wives with the possible exception of Christine had a clue about living plural marriage.  Meri was 10 or so when her dad got a second wife.  Janelle grew up normal Mormon, Kody's parents only began talking about it when he was 14.   Robyn grew up plural but she came rather late to the party.    Christine would have been the better choice for wife#2, but she wanted to be number 3 and presumably the last wife. 

 

 

[SongbirdHollow]

On 3/24/2021 at 11:59 AM, itsadryheat said:

Was Robyn always the dark queen or did she grow into that role?

Well, the original title of her thread was “The Dark Wife Rises”. I don’t know why it was changed, it was brilliant. 

[TeeMo]

18 hours ago, Granny58 said:

you're less cynical than me because you see it as an actual offer.  To me, a person who has dealt with fertility issues, it struck me as a stealth way of saying "see, I'm fertile and you're not."  Who the hell offers their uterus as they're giving birth (or shortly afterwards) for crying out loud.  IMO, it was cruel, not generous.  

I agree. It also felt like a way to highlight to Kody that she, Robyn, was the wife most able to give him what he most wanted even when his other wives fell short. Kody was already besotted with his new, younger wife and by making this seemingly selfless offer to his oldest wife with fertility issues, she was able to both drive home that she was the most desirable to Kody now while earning brownie points from Kody for her generosity to poor old Meri. It was a big time stealth manipulator move and she knew it. She also knew she was putting Meri in a terrible position of either accepting her selfless offer and having to be forever in her debt or turning it down and proving that she really didn’t love Kody enough to have another child with him in this way while Robyn was willing to sacrifice so much to make him happy. Robyn is a truly awful person. 

[Sandy W]

18 minutes ago, Twopper said:

  I wouldn't welcome a sister wife under those conditions.  And no one in this original dysfunctional family of 3 wives with the possible exception of Christine had a clue about living plural marriage.  Meri was 10 or so when her dad got a second wife.  

 

 

This begs the question, why did Meri permit Janelle as a second wife?  I know it's been said that Kody and Janelle courted behind Meri's back but she must have had at least 24 hours notice that they were about to be married.  Why didn't she exercise her power of veto at that point?  Was it because plural marriage had been agreed upon before Kody and Meri married, and if there had to be another wife, Meri didn't consider Janelle to be competition for Kody's affection and/or Janelle had a steady job with a stable income, providing much needed supplement to Meri's part-time job, that enabled her to accompany Kody on business trips, leaving Janelle at home to hold down the fort in the singlewide.

Meri must have had somewhat of a clue as to how plural marriage functioned, having experienced it in her own home for at least 8 years, certainly much more experience than either Kody or Janelle.

[Twopper]

32 minutes ago, Sandy W said:

This begs the question, why did Meri permit Janelle as a second wife?  I know it's been said that Kody and Janelle courted behind Meri's back but she must have had at least 24 hours notice that they were about to be married.  Why didn't she exercise her power of veto at that point?  Was it because plural marriage had been agreed upon before Kody and Meri married, and if there had to be another wife, Meri didn't consider Janelle to be competition for Kody's affection and/or Janelle had a steady job with a stable income, providing much needed supplement to Meri's part-time job, that enabled her to accompany Kody on business trips, leaving Janelle at home to hold down the fort in the singlewide.

Meri must have had somewhat of a clue as to how plural marriage functioned, having experienced it in her own home for at least 8 years, certainly much more experience than either Kody or Janelle.

In one of the earliest episodes Kody is talking about  Meri, and he mentions lengthy and /or frequent conversations with her dad about plural marriage.  I suspect Kody said he was going to marry Janelle and didn't permit objections, and she didn't object because at her wedding she had promised to obey.  It also wouldn't surprise me if Janelle had lorded it over Meri when she produced an heir to the Kodork kingdom a year before Meri had a child.

If Meri's dad's two families lived apart from each other, her experience was probably pretty limited;  she just saw less of her dad and she was old enough that she was probably hanging around her friends or in school much of the time.

at some point Janelle mentions that she had never heard of polygamy until she was 19,  I am having trouble believing that.  I learned about polygamy in Utah when I took US history in the 8th and 11th grades. (and I don't live anywhere near Utah)   I thought she grew up Mormon in Utah and would have learned about it when she took Utah history in school. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Twopper

[itsadryheat]

4 hours ago, laurakaye said:

her false empathy and manipulation

Episode 1 of this season. The lunch meeting.

Janelle opens up the Brown can of emotional worms, gets thrown under the bus by Meri's demure silence. Immediately The Dark Queen starts lip quivering, fake crying, looks at Janelle and asks are you referring to me joining the family? Janelle jumps up from her chair, like she's working out at their fantasy Fitness Center, goes over to her saying no, no, no, while hugging and comforting her.

Never let an opportunity go to waste. Well played Queen of Darkness.

[laurakaye]

52 minutes ago, Twopper said:

at some point Janelle mentions that she had never heard of polygamy until she was 19,  I am having trouble believing that.  I learned about polygamy in Utah when I took US history in the 8th and 11th grades. (and I don't live anywhere near Utah)   I thought she grew up Mormon in Utah and would have learned about it when she took Utah history in school. 

Janelle is full of crap.  I think she says this kind of stuff to deflect from the fact that she divorced Meri's brother to marry Meri's husband.  She loves to act all wide-eyed about the concept of "polygamy."  To hear her tell it, Kody and Meri were her unique "plyg friends."  So she discovers polygamy and decides to marry into the one family she supposedly knew practiced it?  Sure, Jan.

These people lie so much to themselves and each other, they wouldn't know the truth if it came up and bit them in the ass.

 

[ReadMeLattice]

3 hours ago, Twopper said:

Last rites.  DEAD. Arms across chest. Joined the choir invisible.  Buried.

Kodork!!!! what a perfect name for this frenetic moron.

I see Janelle as another dark queen who finagled a marriage to her former SIL's husband and violated at least the spirit of the commandment against coveting her neighbor's spouse. I loathe Janelle.   I wouldn't welcome a sister wife under those conditions.  And no one in this original dysfunctional family of 3 wives with the possible exception of Christine had a clue about living plural marriage.  Meri was 10 or so when her dad got a second wife.  Janelle grew up normal Mormon, Kody's parents only began talking about it when he was 14.   Robyn grew up plural but she came rather late to the party.    Christine would have been the better choice for wife#2, but she wanted to be number 3 and presumably the last wife. 

 

 

Yeah, I think it's safe to say more people who might have been like "hmm, well, I guess it's your choice as adults" re: polygamy before/when this show started are now firmly against it because of their toxic dynamic. A group like the Dargers might have made some more folks end up at a place of "it's weird, but you do you," but the Browns have done exactly the opposite. Literally every adult in the family seems miserable. 

[b2H]

On 3/23/2021 at 8:54 AM, NoWhammies said:

Kody frequently expresses bafflement at why his family isn't very functional. All you have to do to find out, Kody, is look in the magic device God gave you to allow you to see the truth. He put it in your bathroom. It's called a mirror. 

I realized that the reason Kody is so much on the outs with Meri and Christine this season when in the past he and Meri are at least trying to be kind to each other, is that Meri and Christine were the two wives opposed to his gigantic plyg palace on prairie dog poop flats. Janelle was all in, and Robyn played the manipulative Robyn game when he proposed it. If you disagree with Kody or don't react outwardly or emotionally in exactly the way he wants, then he will demonize you unto the end of time because you victimized him. Fucking narcissist twit. Who the hell is mad because his kids still have jobs and are therefore going out in the public? Janelle will be the next wife out of Kody's favor, leaving only Robyn. Which is the way Robyn thinks it should have been all along. She should've been there from the beginning - but she wants the other sister wives in her kingdom to look in awe of her relationship with the golden haired man, do anything she asks of them, and give some legitimacy to her plyg princess dreams.

I've been rewatching all seasons over the past several weeks. When you watch one after the other without the space of a week in between and sometimes months between seasons, it all becomes starkly obvious. You can see his favoritism for Robyn's brood. You can see his lack of interest in Truely because she had the gall to be born when he wanted to be with Robyn. You can see all of Robyn's mechinations and manipulations, you can see all of the forgotten children (basically everyone who came after his oldest four excepting Robyn's kids). You can see how Kody and Robyn turned the tide against Meri (not all of it is undeserved - but understandable why Meri got so defensive when every time she said or did anything, Robyn and Kody would lead the entire gang of adults into jumping down her throat - she behaves like someone with complex PTSD or Cassandra syndrome who is unable to believe her own fillings or perceptions anymore because she has been so gaslighted as the fambily "scapegoat" or "identified patient"). You can see how the kids have parented themselves. You can see how Robyn systematically takes down one wife after another all while crying about "fambily culture". And if it's easy to see watching an episode or so a day over the course of several weeks, imagine what those poor kids see and understand living with it day after day.

Go rewatch the first season. It's so weird. Kody is this benign Winnie-the-Pooh voiced narrator (My name is Kody Brown...) with a big, benevolent smile as he roams joyfully through his huge plyg house in Lehi while having a chick on the side, and his wives have all been ordered to appear twinkly and happy. As each season passes, the masks slip a little more until their true ugliness is revealed. And Robyn's face gets wider and wider with each passing season until it eats up my entire screen, which seems oddly symbolic of her ego expanding as her stature within the fambily grows.

Stick a fork in them; they are done. The Brown fambily is a hugely dysfunctional cult lead by a toxic, passive-aggressive narcissist who uses psychological torture to try and beat each wife or non-Robyn offspring into submission when they don't feel and act exactly the way he wants them to. And by his side is his dark queen, Robyn, she of quivering lips, wide face, comma-shaped eyebrows, forehead wrinkled in her approximation of what care and worry must look like, and trembling chin (with nary a tear in sight) who wages (what she believes is) subtler psychological warfare on anyone who isn't part of her nuclear fambily by manipulative dry crying and whining about how all she wants is the whole fambily to be happy when really what she wants is the man, with everyone else her loyal subjects. And the forgotten children can see through the whole mess. Some have bought into it in order to stay safe and protected. Others are becoming more outwardly vocal about it. At some point, one of them is going to break ranks and tell all. My money is on Gabe, but Truely is a dark horse - it could be her.

I have noted for several years now that most of the older/adult children other than Mariah rarely show up on these episodes.  They have created their lives and, to the best of my knowledge, none of them have chosen the lifestyle.   I mean, hell, one of the adult kids moved to North Carolina, for Pete's sake.  And she stayed on the show long enough to have her second child and hasn't been seen since.  Another one is in, I think, Wyoming?  Where are the older boys, again?  They not only see through it - they've written it off and are involved only when commanded.  I don't even hear the respective moms talking about these kids (except for Christine who did go to NC).

[Granny58]

5 hours ago, Sandy W said:

This begs the question, why did Meri permit Janelle as a second wife?  I know it's been said that Kody and Janelle courted behind Meri's back but she must have had at least 24 hours notice that they were about to be married.  Why didn't she exercise her power of veto at that point?  Was it because plural marriage had been agreed upon before Kody and Meri married, and if there had to be another wife, Meri didn't consider Janelle to be competition for Kody's affection and/or Janelle had a steady job with a stable income, providing much needed supplement to Meri's part-time job, that enabled her to accompany Kody on business trips, leaving Janelle at home to hold down the fort in the singlewide.

Meri must have had somewhat of a clue as to how plural marriage functioned, having experienced it in her own home for at least 8 years, certainly much more experience than either Kody or Janelle.

I honestly think Meri was so madly in love with Kody that she would have agreed to anything to keep him.  

[kicotan]

On 3/22/2021 at 12:09 AM, maxmama said:

Once again the younger Brown kids asked the right questions and made the more insightful comments, particularly Christine’s three daughters upon hearing of mom’s desire to pick up AGAIN and move back to Utah.  Christine appeared to really be flummoxed by their position.  The rationality and common sense should just for once, come from the adults, not the kids.  Luckily those kids have watched this assortment of “parents”, shall we say, and have concluded there must be a better way.

One of my favorite shows of all time is South Park.  The adults are complete idiots and the kids are the rational ones.  This show has been trending that way for a long time.  When was the last time Logan appeared on the show?  If these idiots (Kody et all) have done anything right it’s to raise their children to NOT follow in their footsteps.
 

I just find it amazing that so many of the adult family members live in a state of fear. They start with the underlying fear of the gubment taking them to jail for polygamy, because that’s their “given”  and then they add on their day to day fears.  Maybe it’s because I grew up in an anabaptist environment that taught fear was a tool used by the adversary...in other words, fear did not come from God.  I understand that folks need to be aware of the risks of bringing  home the Covid-19 to family members, especially those who are most at risk...and that would be Janelle, but the rest of it is all soap opera.

My daughter graduated from nursing school in December.  She had to work in the “COVID” ward for 6 weeks and lived with my 93 year old mother.  She would disrobe in the laundry room before entering my mom’s environment, shower and put on clean clothes.  Kody could still make his rounds amongst the 4 different houses if he practiced safe protocols.  It doesn’t have to be as severe as they make it out to be to visit family,

At this point they are merely a soap opera...no one talks about their faith, we don’t see them gathering together for worship services as a family and not for nothing, that’s supposed to be the foundation of their relationship with each other.  If they really are down for their polygamist lifestyle then they should be exposing that not just in word but in deed, yet the only mention is if Utah has made some kind of legal decision about it.  Christine’s family has been giving the Feds the finger for generations, yet not one peep about it on the show.

If I wanted to watch a soap opera about a dysfunctional family I’d watch the Kardashians or one of the “Real Housewives”.  This show was supposed to be about a family that bases their lifestyle on polygamy from a religious mandate.  None of that has been represented so far this season.

[Sandy W]

1 hour ago, Granny58 said:

I honestly think Meri was so madly in love with Kody that she would have agreed to anything to keep him.  

Meri is the mistress of not speaking up when the time is right.  She did not voice her intent to proceed with IVF before Kody said, "let's sit on no for now" and then, she ran to Robyn wailing she was going to say yes.  And even when he said what he did, in a solid marriage, she could have countered him and said but, I do want to do it.  She didn't even try.

When they were newly married, they probably were both solidly in love with each other.  If Meri has misgivings about plural marriage and sharing him, then would have been the time for soul-searching conversations.  I wonder if she even tried.  He may have thought that was what she wanted because of her religious beliefs and she may have been able to dissuade him if she had expressed reluctance to proceed.

But then, if that had been the case, they would just be like the rest of us boring monogamists as Christine would say, and we would never have had the pleasure of their company this past 10 years.

[deirdra]

11 hours ago, Twopper said:

Christine would have been the better choice for wife#2, but she wanted to be number 3 and presumably the last wife. 

I've always wondered if Meri put the idea of a younger & fertile 4th wife into Kootie's head because Christine was about to have Truely, who was probably going to be the last kid and only baby in the family, which would drawn all of Kootie's attention to Christine's family.  Befriending Robyn & bringing her & the cookie crumbs into the family would destroy Christine's dream of finally getting the attention she felt her family was due.  And Meri thought Robyn was her friend, so it would balance out disputes with M&R vs.J&C.  Meri didn't see that Robyn was a snake.

[deirdra]

3 hours ago, Sandy W said:

When they were newly married, they probably were both solidly in love with each other.  If Meri has misgivings about plural marriage and sharing him, then would have been the time for soul-searching conversations.  I wonder if she even tried.  He may have thought that was what she wanted because of her religious beliefs and she may have been able to dissuade him if she had expressed reluctance to proceed.

Kootie was probably thought he needed to prove to his HS classmates (who thought he was gay in HS) that he was a manly man, but Meri wasn't getting pregnant and her SIL was befriending them.  So Kootie became a plyg and the rest is history - he has 4 wives & has been a sperm donor who produced 15 of 18 children.

Edited March 26, 2021 by deirdra

[laurakaye]

13 hours ago, Granny58 said:

I honestly think Meri was so madly in love with Kody that she would have agreed to anything to keep him.  

I agree - and she probably also thought there would be no way that Kody would love any subsequent wives as much as he loved her, which proved to be true - until the Dark Queen arrived.

[smarty]

8 hours ago, deirdra said:

I've always wondered if Meri put the idea of a younger & fertile 4th wife into Kootie's head because Christine was about to have Truely, who was probably going to be the last kid and only baby in the family, which would drawn all of Kootie's attention to Christine's family.  

I heard that they found a fourth wife because that is what sold the show to TLC - a new wife coming in.  

[Cetacean]

8 hours ago, deirdra said:

"the cookie crumbs"

Hee!  Internet winner of the day!

[ReadMeLattice]

18 hours ago, Granny58 said:

I honestly think Meri was so madly in love with Kody that she would have agreed to anything to keep him.  

I agree. I also think now when we see the show it isn't as clear anymore that at least Christine and Meri were brainwashed from childhood to believe this was their lot in life and the only way to achieve spiritual perfection. ESPECIALLY Christine, who is from a prominent polygamous family. Probably Robyn too, as she married a Jessop first, for God's sake. She might have been monogamous with him but the "doctrine" ran deep. Only Janelle and Kody weren't raised in polygamous families or a polygamous religion.

Edited March 26, 2021 by ReadMeLattice

[Twopper]

5 hours ago, Cetacean said:

14 hours ago, deirdra said:

"the cookie crumbs"

Hee!  Internet winner of the day!

it cracked me up when Kody said something about Robyn always getting the crumbs.  I think it was last season when they were visiting Prairie Dog Acres.

[NoWhammies]

1 hour ago, Twopper said:

it cracked me up when Kody said something about Robyn always getting the crumbs.  I think it was last season when they were visiting Prairie Dog Acres.

Yes. She of quivering lip and furrowed brow was saying in her most martyred, quavery voice, "It's okay." *sigh* "I'm perfectly fine with what ever is left over." *sigh*

[ReadMeLattice]

1 hour ago, NoWhammies said:

Yes. She of quivering lip and furrowed brow was saying in her most martyred, quavery voice, "It's okay." *sigh* "I'm perfectly fine with what ever is left over." *sigh*

She really has that martyred voice/facial expression down, it's quite the art. 

[Twopper]

18 minutes ago, ReadMeLattice said:

She really has that martyred voice/facial expression down, it's quite the art. 

I have yet to understand why she doesn't put a little onion juice or strong soap on a little handkerchief and dab her eyes to get a tear or two when she does her solo talking head and pretends to cry.

I thought the  conversation at the table with Robyn's children was so awkward.  The younger kids should have been sent somewhere else to play.  And Robyn calls it "fun, exciting news."   When my parents had fun, exciting news it usually had to do with a trip to an  amusement park or a vacation or something that would be FUN.   Somehow I don't think Dayton has any interest in four wives; he looked so over it.  Breanna tried weakly to look happy for her mom, but it was a feeble effort.   Aurora spoke up, but it sounded like she had over-rehearsed her comments. She always seems in slo-mo.  Even Janelle seems to have twice the energy as Aurora.  The conversation in the bedroom was almost as awkward, but the littles and Dayton were missing. 

Christine doesn't understand why her kids don't want to go to Utah?  Truely was born there, but her first memories are in Las Vegas, and the older girls did most of their growing up in LV as well. None have true ties to Utah.  And Kody still seems to forget Truely exists. 

If any of these wives ever end up living together again, we will know it is because they are completely out of money and can no longer rob Peter to pay Paul. 

 

Kody is insufferable as usual, except more so, if that is possible.

[Art Of Noiz]

6 hours ago, NoWhammies said:

Yes. She of quivering lip and furrowed brow was saying in her most martyred, quavery voice, "It's okay." *sigh* "I'm perfectly fine with what ever is left over." *sigh*

I will never believe she doesn't practice in front of mirrors. 

[Art Of Noiz]

On 3/24/2021 at 7:51 PM, Rabbit Hutch said:

Wanna bet that there is a painting of her in the attic that's growing more twisted and knarly by the minute?  🥴

50 shades of Dorian Gray.

[LilyD]

On 3/23/2021 at 5:06 PM, itsadryheat said:

Kody and Robyn are HORRIBLE with money. Pretty obvious they believe this gravy train will chug along for a spiritual eternity. 

 

I read their book (yes I confess to that) and watched all the seasons and after all those years I am still gobsmacked by the sheer number of idiotic financial decisions they made and kept on making. The number of bankruptcies, the houses they sold at a loss or just a marginal profit, the huge amount of money they must have gotten the first few years that they simply blew out of the window, the ridiculous amount of rent they spend on way too big mansions, Coyote disaster Pass...The list is endless. If anything, they are unable to learn from past experiences, so it is either a fundamental lack of brain cells or a serious disorder (based on the notion of being unable to learn from or change behaviour). Possibly both. 

[Twopper]

3 hours ago, LilyDutch said:

I read their book (yes I confess to that) and watched all the seasons and after all those years I am still gobsmacked by the sheer number of idiotic financial decisions they made and kept on making. The number of bankruptcies, the houses they sold at a loss or just a marginal profit, the huge amount of money they must have gotten the first few years that they simply blew out of the window, the ridiculous amount of rent they spend on way too big mansions, Coyote disaster Pass...The list is endless. If anything, they are unable to learn from past experiences, so it is either a fundamental lack of brain cells or a serious disorder (based on the notion of being unable to learn from or change behaviour). Possibly both. 

I hate myself.  

I just ordered a used copy from Amazon for $4 plus shipping.  At least the Browns themselves won't profit directly from that sale.  And when I am finished, I will, by cover of night, sneak this into the lending library box in our neighborhood. 

Is this the only book or did someone --Robyn?-- write another?

They do seem unable to learn from their prior experiences.  They lament having to live apart in LV and they say they sorta got the family spirit back in the cul-de-sac.  It looks like the Commitment celebration was the high point of that period.  Then they move to Flagstaff and everyone goes back to their separate ways just like when they had the rentals in Las Vegas except that Meri is no longer in the rotation.   I am so ready for the knives to come out against Robyn.

[Sandy W]

49 minutes ago, Twopper said:

 

Is this the only book or did someone --Robyn?-- write another?

 

Robyn and Meri both lay claim to being NYT best-selling authors when in reality, they each only wrote 1/5th of the book (if not a ghost-writer).

[Roslyn]

On 3/25/2021 at 1:14 PM, Sandy W said:

This begs the question, why did Meri permit Janelle as a second wife?  I know it's been said that Kody and Janelle courted behind Meri's back but she must have had at least 24 hours notice that they were about to be married.  Why didn't she exercise her power of veto at that point?  Was it because plural marriage had been agreed upon before Kody and Meri married, and if there had to be another wife, Meri didn't consider Janelle to be competition for Kody's affection and/or Janelle had a steady job with a stable income, providing much needed supplement to Meri's part-time job, that enabled her to accompany Kody on business trips, leaving Janelle at home to hold down the fort in the singlewide.

Meri must have had somewhat of a clue as to how plural marriage functioned, having experienced it in her own home for at least 8 years, certainly much more experience than either Kody or Janelle.

 

On 3/25/2021 at 6:36 PM, Granny58 said:

I honestly think Meri was so madly in love with Kody that she would have agreed to anything to keep him.  

I have long thought that Meri didn't have as much of a choice as they lead us to believe that "all the wives have to accept the new wife". Meri wanted Kody. Kody wanted more wives. With a three year gap in the first and second wife Meri probably thought she could convince Kody that he only wanted her and she would be "enough" for him. But she promised him and agreed to more wives and I have a feeling that Kody figured Janelle would be perfect because she was already close to his family AND her and Meri were already friends.  As he proves more and more that he is devoid of all emotional maturity he just plopped Janelle down in their little trailer and thought that if anyone has an issue they just need to pray and fix themselves because that is what his doctrine tells him will happen.

If it is true that a new wife has to go through the existing wives to get into the family, then why was Christine kept out of the loop?  Meri and Kody admitted to keeping their ideas about Robyn entering the family secret for awhile and Christine was nearly hysterical on camera talking about how everyone gets a testimony about Robyn except her.  So...as we have seen over the years they want the world to hear roses and ponies but their actions show otherwise.

Kody is the man and in his religion he is King and God of the house.  He gets what he wants. Period.

[Persnickety1]

1 hour ago, Twopper said:

I hate myself.  

I just ordered a used copy from Amazon for $4 plus shipping.  At least the Browns themselves won't profit directly from that sale.  And when I am finished, I will, by cover of night, sneak this into the lending library box in our neighborhood. 

Don't hate yourself.

I just ordered the Kris Kardashian book (along with a jewel, Cooking with Kris or some such bullshit).

I'm debating on ordering the sister wives book as well.

Hanging my head in shame, I'll show myself out (for now).

[Twopper]

32 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

If it is true that a new wife has to go through the existing wives to get into the family, then why was Christine kept out of the loop?  Meri and Kody admitted to keeping their ideas about Robyn entering the family secret for awhile and Christine was nearly hysterical on camera talking about how everyone gets a testimony about Robyn except her.  So...as we have seen over the years they want the world to hear roses and ponies but their actions show otherwise.

I was about to post on Janelle's thread that I was really impressed by her snark in season 6 or 7 where they are talking about a possible 5th wife and Janelle says how she  never expected they would have a fourth.   The look of utter surprise and horror on Robyn's face is hilarious.

[Twopper]

3 hours ago, Roslyn said:

This begs the question, why did Meri permit Janelle as a second wife?  I know it's been said that Kody and Janelle courted behind Meri's back but she must have had at least 24 hours notice that they were about to be married.  Why didn't she exercise her power of veto at that point?  Was it because plural marriage had been agreed upon before Kody and Meri married, and if there had to be another wife, Meri didn't consider Janelle to be competition for Kody's affection and/or Janelle had a steady job with a stable income, providing much needed supplement to Meri's part-time job, that enabled her to accompany Kody on business trips, leaving Janelle at home to hold down the fort in the singlewide.

Meri must have had somewhat of a clue as to how plural marriage functioned, having experienced it in her own home for at least 8 years, certainly much more experience than either Kody or Janelle.

okay, maybe I misheard what she said earlier about her age when her dad took a second wife.   I am watching an episode now and she is visiting someone who went to kindergarten with her.  Meri says she was 4 when her parents converted from Mormon to the fundamentalist version. The friend's father was on the council that excommunicated Meri's parents so she knew that Meri's family was poly.  Meri said she was about five when the second wife came on board.   Then they drove to the house in Bountiful where she grew up and talked to some of the neighbors.  The house looks tiny but has 2 mailboxes because there was an apartment in the basement for Meri's second mom.  She also asked the friend if she remembered a trap door, but then they don't mention it.  I guess there was a trap door in the house for Meri's dad to go between the apartments?!  Honestly, I have no idea.   It is a gorgeous Saturday after a few days of too much rain, and I  am sitting in the house watching this stupid show.   I do not understand myself some days, and now I can't wait to read their book that I just ordered used.  

[Tabbygirl521]

Kody: it is not a “civil right” to be out and about spreading contagion. Get a grip. 
 

he looks better when he does his own hair and makeup. So now I think the show stylist hates him and that’s why s/he turns his hair into ramen. 

[LuvMyShows]

21 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

he looks better when he does his own hair and makeup. 

I think it was last week, when Kody was filming at Christine's, and he did one in the morning, and she got mad at him for doing it spur of the moment so she didn't have time to put her makeup on.  That just confirms that everything we see is planned for filming, because she always has her make-up on, but in her 'real life', she doesn't.

Edited March 28, 2021 by LuvMyShows

[Luvless]

On 3/25/2021 at 11:19 AM, WhatsUpDummy said:

I remember that.  And Robyn immediately jumped up and said "I knew he didn't want a laptop".  Why didn't she say something at the gift brainstorming session the wives had? Christine was pissed!  Basically said that from then on he can pick out his own stupid gift and they'll go and pick it up.  

Another example of Robyn trying to look better than the others by acting like she was against getting the laptop therefore not her fault.