S25.E12: After the Final Rose

[laschifosavita]

21 minutes ago, CraftyHazel said:

I think Emmanuel Acho is doing a really good job here.  But again with the no-socks, too-tight suit.  It’s just not a look I can get used to.

They probably confiscate all the socks when they replace the men's wardrobes with v-necks and turtlenecks.

[dizzyd]

I like 2 b’ette seasons, more male eye candy for me. I love Michelle and look forward to seeing her adorable parents again. Katie reminds me of Jillian and I liked Jillian but not her pick so hopefully I like Katie too and wish it goes well for both of them. 

[DEL901]

He didn’t mention that BiP will be in between the seasons.   Looking forward to some light hearted fame whoring.  

[Diana Berry]

3 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

And I think Acho helped by explaining the difference between racism and racial insensitivity.  

Can agree on that and did appreciate he doesn’t like cancel culture but accountability.

[JenE4]

They definitely made the right choice hiring Acho for this show. He did a phenomenal job. I hear the perspective of why are they talking “so much” about the racial issues, but it’s critical. Matt and Rachel broke up because of it—so, yeah, that’s what they’re going to talk about. Moreover, the show overall needs to rehab their image and show that they are “doing the work” themselves. I didn’t miss Harrison at all. Acho asked real, thoughtful, and thought-provoking questions—a refreshing change from “Where is you heart?”

[pennben]

11 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

Sorry she shouldn’t be put on trial at all.  She made a mistake and shouldn’t be bullied and harassed. She’s admitted her mistake and apologized.  

She’s not on trial. 

[TheFinalRose]

Acho was great. I thought it was especially sensitive for Matt to be able to speak to another black man at this time. As we all know, Chris Harrison doesn't get it and I can't see how having him there would have ever worked, especially seeing how broken Matt seems. Now I'm worried about Matt. Getting out of the spotlight and "never seeing these people again" as Acho kept promising, seems like a good move right now. 

[Madding crowd]

I disliked Matt saying he doesn’t believe Rachael should be canceled. How do you cancel a real person? Put her to death? The idea of even bringing up canceling a live person ( as opposed to a character, book, song etc), is rather frightening. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Madding crowd

[pennben]

2 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I disliked Matt saying he doesn’t believe Rachael should be canceled. How do you cancel a real person? Put her to death? The idea of even bringing up canceling a live person ( as opposed to a character, book, song etc), is rather frightening. 

Comparing ‘cancel culture’ (and I’m pretty sure most knows what that means) to the death penalty, which has been proven to be quite racist in effect, woof. 

[atlanticslide]

Interesting ATFR. I zinged from one side to the other on Matt - not giving Michelle 2 minutes to talk is fucking cold and reflects really poorly on him. But it's hard not to feel for him with the Rachael stuff. Like, this is why you don't go on a show like this expecting to truly walk out of there with the love of your life, because there's just so much you can't possibly know about each other yet. But I'm sure hearing about this stuff and seeing her (initial, at least) inability to understand the problem must've been rough. Whoever on the show cast her without digging this stuff up beforehand really did him dirty. 

I kind of love that Matt really wasn't giving her (or Acho) an inch in any of this - no "last embrace," no "maybe we'll get back together," no nothing. He seems very done with the whole situation. 

[Twiz44]

53 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

Me neither. It was spot on.

That was me. Here’s the photo...

[Stats Queen]

19 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

And I think Acho helped by explaining the difference between racism and racial insensitivity.  

I think he did a great job, and this difference is very important.

I hope the Twitter verse can now move away from Rachael and give her a bit of a break. I thought she handled herself well. She made no excuses. This is an example of holding yourself accountable and working to become a better, more enlightened person.

[RealHousewife]

56 minutes ago, EllenB said:

I don't think it's the kind of thing you can just get over. I wouldn't be able to be with someone who was, if not explicitly racist, at least a lot too comfortable with racists and racism, and I'm white. It would be devastating for a person of color.

I totally see Matt just not being that into Rachael, but he seemed very sincere when he said, if she doesn’t understand this, how can she understand me? 

I don’t think Rachael is a bad person, but his concerns were legitimate. I always pay attention to how men talk about different people of color, different nationalities, different faiths, and the LGBT community. I can think someone is basically a decent person, but if they don’t make a point to passionately care about people they can’t relate to, I’m out. It’s possible Rachael does care to a degree but didn’t know the party was offensive. Idk, but I don’t write off Matt’s concerns. 

There was a man interested in me last summer who said some ugly things about BLM. I was really disappointment he could be so nasty. I think Becca K ran into the same issue with Garrett. She was passionate about antiracism, Garrett only passionately took up for police. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by RealHousewife

[Diana Berry]

26 minutes ago, pennben said:

She’s not on trial. 

Sure felt like it.

[Madding crowd]

12 minutes ago, pennben said:

Comparing ‘cancel culture’ (and I’m pretty sure most knows what that means) to the death penalty, which has been proven to be quite racist in effect, woof. 

I said nothing about the ‘death penalty’. I said the idea of canceling an actual person is frightening. Please don’t put words or motivations in my mouth.

[Irlandesa]

43 minutes ago, laschifosavita said:

It doesn't feel like a trial to me. Matt and Acho are being very generous and kind. They don't seem adversarial at all.

 

39 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

And I think Acho helped by explaining the difference between racism and racial insensitivity.  

I agree.  I think Emmanuel Acho did a fantastic job.  Rachael wasn't on trial.  She had to address some uncomfortable topics from the photographs from her past to the breakup but I think Acho was very gracious in believing in her ability to grow.

I also think Matt James had to answer some tough questions as well.  I can't imagine talking about being a black man in America was easy for him.

I get we all want to see fluff but when a couple breaks up before AFTR, there isn't as much room for happy fluff.  And going to all white leads doesn't divorce this show from racism; it just hides the racism.

Katie was good on the show but she isn't all that great live. I thought she was about to throw up when being introduced as The Bachelorette.  Michelle's just terrific. I can't wait for her season. 

And is it just me but I thought I noticed some appreciative looks between Emmanuel and Michelle.  Katie just seemed to disappear when they were talking to one another.

Anyone else wonder if she'll even make it to her season single?

Edited March 16, 2021 by Irlandesa

[nickp1991]

Shouts to Emmanuel Acho for being such a well spoken voice in tonight’s show

[pennben]

4 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

Sure felt like it.

She was held accountable. She’ll be fine & I actually appreciate her showing up for it. A criminal trial means a loss of freedom. That was never in question here. She may lose opportunities & that’s ok. 

[Kira53]

58 minutes ago, dizzyd said:

I think Matt was just looking for an out of a committed relationship and he didn’t “love her enough to educate and grow with her.”

She is just plain not ready for a real life relationship with a black man.  If she wasn't terrified that those pictures would come out; she didn't have the slightest idea of what it would be to be married to a black man. 

I think Matt is deeply disappointed in himself not knowing that he would need to vet a white woman to see if she understood a little of what it would really mean not to just marry him as an individual but to understand that he walks around in a black man's body and that makes all the difference to many people in the world and she had no idea. Perhaps as a biracial man he's even more disappointed in himself because he believed he could just be Matt, a man,  not Matt, black man.  not just a black man because he was the first black bachelor but that you can't assume that any ordinary white girl really has any idea of what it means to be a black man in America.  Any black man would be deeply offended to know that the woman they love has no idea that she should be fearful of pictures like those coming out because it's quite clear that she just has a lot to learn. I'm not at all against her; I think she's done wonderfully and gracefully in a very difficult situation of her own making.  But only a white person could think of "they can grow together" in this situation.  

[Arkay]

I've never heard of Emmanuel Acho before, but I thought he was sensitive and asked insightful questions, and kept the tone from getting out of hand. He shouldn't have mentioned a final embrace, but otherwise I felt he was fair and on point.

I'm a New Yorker, all races interact daily and there are no parties here celebrating the Antebellum South. So I'm trying to understand that Rachel comes from a Southern culture where these parties happen. Maybe they felt that it was like playing dress-up? Yet it's impossible that no one ever had a flicker of clarity that these were not happy times for black people. Anyone here from the South who knows more about this? I really didn't know that plantation parties were a thing. 

So Katie's season is this summer, and then Michelle will have a season, too. What comes in between? Will there be a BIP? Then after Katie, another Bachelor season before Michelle has her turn? I kind of hope Michelle finds someone before waiting that long, although she would make a great Bachelorette. 

[laschifosavita]

Just now, Arkay said:

So Katie's season is this summer, and then Michelle will have a season, too. What comes in between? Will there be a BIP? Then after Katie, another Bachelor season before Michelle has her turn? I kind of hope Michelle finds someone before waiting that long, although she would make a great Bachelorette. 

Katie's season is going to start filming right away to start airing in May. We'll get BIP around the usual time. Michelle's season will air in the fall. Part of the reason for the choice was that Michelle plans on keeping her teaching job, so she will not start filming until school is out for summer vacation.

[Irlandesa]

18 minutes ago, Arkay said:

Will there be a BIP? Then after Katie, another Bachelor season before Michelle has her turn?

There will be two Bachelorette seasons this year with BIP likely in between.  I'm guessing they'll film the next The Bachelor in the fall for a spring 2022 airing.

21 minutes ago, Kira53 said:

Any black man would be deeply offended to know that the woman they love has no idea that she should be fearful of pictures like those coming out because it's quite clear that she just has a lot to learn.

That was something that really struck me which makes me wonder about their relationship before this all came out.  Matt said he heard rumors but just assumed they were rumors.  Maybe he's talking about the "likes" that were out there but don't you think he'd ask Rachael "hey, do you know what they're talking about?"  Or "what is up with these pictures?"

And then Rachael was blindsided by the breakup and he had to tell her why he was breaking up with her.  I think if he deeply loved her, he might have tried to stick it out.  Not because it would have worked out but because we do stupid things when we're in love. 

I do like that she didn't try to blame anyone for her ignorance but I also wouldn't have thought less if her if she had pointed out how poor the American education system is at teaching how racism is ingrained in our systems by design.  I remember learning about slavery.  And racist Jim Crow laws.  But I do think my school could have done a better job of drawing the line throughout history instead of teaching them as isolated incidents.  It was presented (to me) as X happened and Y happened instead of X happened, it was overturned so then Y was created.  When Y was overturned or made illegal, powerful people turned to Method Z.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Irlandesa

[econ07]

7 minutes ago, laschifosavita said:

Katie's season is going to start filming right away to start airing in May. We'll get BIP around the usual time. Michelle's season will air in the fall. Part of the reason for the choice was that Michelle plans on keeping her teaching job, so she will not start filming until school is out for summer vacation.

I think it's also that they need to fill up hours of programming with the difficulty of filming scripted shows during the pandemic.  I'd imagine that filming of this show is pretty cheap.

[TomGirl]

15 minutes ago, Kira53 said:

She is just plain not ready for a real life relationship with a black man.  If she wasn't terrified that those pictures would come out; she didn't have the slightest idea of what it would be to be married to a black man. 

I think that’s what Matt felt was the breaking point.  Not the fact that Rachael said/did some racially insensitive things in 2018, but the fact that, even in 2021, she apparently could not realize or understand the impact of those things.

Add me to the list of those who think Acho did a great job.

 

[Irlandesa]

13 minutes ago, econ07 said:

I think it's also that they need to fill up hours of programming with the difficulty of filming scripted shows during the pandemic.  I'd imagine that filming of this show is pretty cheap.

Well especially if they're not traveling.

[tinderbox]

1 hour ago, econ07 said:

Ya, I call BS on Matt, and maybe this whole thing.  "I love you, but you have to go through this work alone."

If he truly loved her they’d be working on the situation together.  What better person to teach her than Matt.  He’s full of it.

[laschifosavita]

10 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

That was something that really struck me which makes me wonder about their relationship before this all came out.  Matt said he heard rumors but just assumed they were rumors.  Maybe he's talking about the "likes" that were out there but don't you think he'd ask Rachael "hey, do you know what they're talking about?"  Or "what is up with these pictures?"

I wondered if he was maybe also referring to the claims that she bullied high school classmates for dating black men that came out before everything else. That would fit better because there isn't any evidence to look at. It is just Rachael's word against theirs.

It makes it confusing that they don't give a timeline about stuff because they don't want the audience to know these things aren't live.

[Chicago Redshirt]

As a first-timer to the Bachelor franchise, this whole season has mostly been a slog. And I don't know if this is typical, but it seemed like Matt is so shallow and so programmed. And in part, that manifested itself in how the show tried to walk a tightrope between touting Matt as the first Black bachelor and yet not really talking about what that meant. 

I don't remember a single in-depth conversation being portrayed where he talked with any of the women about his experience as a biracial man, the implications of their dating and even possibly having with all the ramifications of that, their thoughts and experiences with racism and so forth. Maybe those conversations were had but left on the editing floor for whatever reason.

I feel like we got to learn more about the real Matt in this ATFR than we did over the course of a season. And I don't know if I like what we learned.

We learned that he was apparently unwilling to spare two minutes to have a conversation to allow Michelle closure even after she asked for it.

We learned that in his romance with Rachael he apparently never discussed anything substantial about race nor got a vibe about her racial insensitivity. 

We learned that he was not willing to stay with her as she pledged to do the work to educate herself about racial insensitivity. 

We learned that literally when they hit the first bump in the road that he was willing to call it quits.

We learned that he did so in a phone call as opposed to an in person conversation or even a Zoom call.

He is just not a class act.

Every woman on this season should be thankful for dodging bullets like Neo.

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 minutes ago, tinderbox said:

If he truly loved her they’d be working on the situation together.  What better person to teach her than Matt.  He’s full of it.

In fairness, there are some situations that hypothetically would be too big a betrayal. To me as a black man, what was shown was relatively innocuous. Maybe there was fundamentally worse that ABC wasn't willing to show or that Matt might fear was yet to be uncovered. 

Like for instance, if I were Matt, a contestant who had dressed in blackface would be a dealbreaker for me, pretty much no matter how long ago it was. I could see someone just being ignorant of the ramifications of an antebellum party meaning "Hey we are celebrating the era when blacks were enslaved!" but there's been no good excuse for most people dong blackface for like 50+ years.

[pennben]

I hear you, but that’s a big, beyond speedbump-sized first ‘bump in the road’!!  All should probably walk away grateful. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by pennben

[atlanticslide]

35 minutes ago, Arkay said:

I'm a New Yorker, all races interact daily and there are no parties here celebrating the Antebellum South. So I'm trying to understand that Rachel comes from a Southern culture where these parties happen. Maybe they felt that it was like playing dress-up? Yet it's impossible that no one ever had a flicker of clarity that these were not happy times for black people. Anyone here from the South who knows more about this? I really didn't know that plantation parties were a thing. 

I could swear I heard or read somewhere that these kinds of parties were actually banned by the sorority/fraternity system, which, if true, makes it hard to really buy that they had no idea what the implications were or that there was anything wrong with it, even if they didn't really grasp why. 

[dbell1]

I didn’t expect Matt to stay with whoever he picked, he’s not ready for settling down. But most of the Bachelors don’t get married. Aren’t we at 3 marriages after all these years? I don’t think Matt expected the problematic photos and likes to just keep coming. Her mother hasn’t helped matters much either. With it all combined, he was done. It’s not his job to educate her to not be racially insensitive. 

I thought Emmanuel did a good job when he wasn’t reading off cue cards. But that “embrace” comment was just a hard pass. 

I wish this franchise would do a better job vetting the contestants. It’s less about the relationships and more about the reality. And that’s not what it used to be. 

 

[econ07]

6 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In fairness, there are some situations that hypothetically would be too big a betrayal. To me as a black man, what was shown was relatively innocuous. Maybe there was fundamentally worse that ABC wasn't willing to show or that Matt might fear was yet to be uncovered. 

Like for instance, if I were Matt, a contestant who had dressed in blackface would be a dealbreaker for me, pretty much no matter how long ago it was. I could see someone just being ignorant of the ramifications of an antebellum party meaning "Hey we are celebrating the era when blacks were enslaved!" but there's been no good excuse for most people dong blackface for like 50+ years.

That's why it seems to me that he really didn't know or love this woman - so he was either putting on a show like every other bachelor contestant, or convinced himself that he was in love without really getting to know her.  Either way, it just seemed like it was way too easy for him to dump her if he indeed call her over the phone with that intention, not bothering to go face to face.

[Starlight925]

Southern Charm aired regular parties at the Ravenel Plantation.  Yes, in the past, the Ravenels were slave-owners, as it was a Southern Plantation. 
Not once has Andy Cohen, Bravo TV, or any cast member who regularly attended these events been held accountable.  

I believe that Rachael attended what she thought was a fun party with frilly dresses and girlfriends. 

I like that Acho pointed out that one must look at the intent.  She was barely 21, and I don’t believe she had any ill intent.  Ignorance, absolutely.  
 

Matt’s a cold, insensitive person.  No, I’m not talking about his breakup, even though I believe he’s a commitment phobe who will be single at 60.  
 

He wouldn’t even give Michelle 2 minutes.   And then he did that thing that I hate:  when Michelle asked him why he wouldn’t give her 2 minutes, he deflected and blathered on about how wonderful she is.   He never really answered the question, except to say that had he known she only wanted closure, he’d have talked to her.  
Really??   You just broke this girl’s heart, you won’t talk to her?  Let’s say that she did want to try to convince him to come back, or cry to him about her hurt feelings.  He wouldn’t have given her that time.  He said so.  
Good riddance, Matt.  As Acho said, I hope we never see you again either. 
    Emmanuel Acho....for Bachelor!!

 

[RealHousewife]

Count me in on the Emmanuel Acho love. He is kind, intelligent, and thoughtful. 

Matt's a strikingly gorgeous guy and sometimes he seems sweet. Other times he comes across very cold. I find him very hard to read. All the women dodged a bullet. Even though I can't figure him out, we can all tell he's definitely not ready for marriage. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by RealHousewife

[EllenB]

21 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Count me in on the Emmanuel Acho love. He is kind, intelligent, and thoughtful. 

Matt's a strikingly gorgeous guy and sometimes he seems sweet. Other times he comes across very cold. I find him very hard to read. All the women dodged a bullet. Even though I can't figure him out, we can all tell he's definitely not ready for marriage. 

He admitted, first to CH and then to Acho, that he has problems showing and expressing emotion and that he knows he has to work on it. But he also needs to work on his communications skills so he can have deeper conversations instead of dancing around questions. But I saw a lot of emotion on his face when Acho was asking the tough questions.

Edited March 16, 2021 by EllenB

[RealHousewife]

1 minute ago, EllenB said:

He admitted, first to CH and then to Acho, that he has problems showing emotion and that he knows he has to work on it. But he also needs to work on his communications skills so he can have deeper conversations instead of dancing around questions. But I saw a lot of emotion on his face when Acho was asking the tough questions.

Yes, I saw his eyes tear up. It was one of the few times other than when he spoke to his father I saw emotion. But I agree, he still couldn't communicate. This would be a major dealbreaker for me. I want to know where I stand with someone, what he's thinking, what he's feeling. 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Matt is a fucking ass. He's doing exactly what his father did: bailing at the first sign of trouble. In the coming years, Rachael will come to understand that she lucked out, and hopefully she'll find someone who will accept her for who she is.

Matt: There were numerous African-American women on your season, all of whom would have understood your experience as a minority in America. You didn't pick any of them. Instead, you picked a white woman five years your junior, then dumped her because she didn't understand your very-different life experiences? Whatever, dude. You're a cad.

[Chicago Redshirt]

17 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Matt is a fucking ass. He's doing exactly what his father did: bailing at the first sign of trouble. In the coming years, Rachael will come to understand that she lucked out, and hopefully she'll find someone who will accept her for who she is.

Matt: There were numerous African-American women on your season, all of whom would have understood your experience as a minority in America. You didn't pick any of them. Instead, you picked a white woman five years your junior, then dumped her because she didn't understand your very-different life experiences? Whatever, dude. You're a cad.

As a child of an interracial relationship, Matt might have a different perspective on how much a white woman might understand him as a black man than most. Given some of his clueless-at-best, cynical-and-heartless-at-worst behavior, I don't know if he really was so offended by Rachael's action or was just looking for an escape hatch (as I understand most Bachelors have done). I sense he will be putting his hands on the knees of a fair amount of women and either playing the "I am so hurt by Rachael and her insensitivity...if only there were a white woman who could really understand and love me" card or the "I've learned I need the love of a good sista" card.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[Jamaraz]

This show made a major misstep by not having Chris Harrison in the hot seat.  This is a very old and tired show and the only sense of continuity from the beginning origins of the show to the scripted nonsense that we see today is Chris Harrison.  I find him a very likable part of the franchise and enjoy his presence on the show.  It looks like they are flirting with the idea of replacing him.  I think that is a huge mistake.  He is the heart of the show and I think it will fold once he is gone.  He needed to be held accountable for his statements on camera and have the "tough conversation".  Let's see how Chris has grown and see him "do the work" on future installments of the Bachelor.  Without giving him the chance to explain himself, I don't see how he can continue on the show.  But without him as host, I don't see how the show can continue on for any length of time.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 minutes ago, Jamaraz said:

This show made a major misstep by not having Chris Harrison in the hot seat.  This is a very old and tired show and the only sense of continuity from the beginning origins of the show to the scripted nonsense that we see today is Chris Harrison.  I find him a very likable part of the franchise and enjoy his presence on the show.  It looks like they are flirting with the idea of replacing him.  I think that is a huge mistake.  He is the heart of the show and I think it will fold once he is gone.  He needed to be held accountable for his statements on camera and have the "tough conversation".  Let's see how Chris has grown and see him "do the work" on future installments of the Bachelor.  Without giving him the chance to explain himself, I don't see how he can continue on the show.  But without him as host, I don't see how the show can continue on for any length of time.  

As a Bachelor noob, I'm not sure what Chris brought to the table that is different from your average replacement, or really no host. He doesn't seem to have much personality on display, and he doesn't seem to stir the pot directly by asking questions of the candidates on a week-in week-out basis. 

He definitely doesn't seem to be the equivalent of Gordon Ramsay, Jeff Probst or Phil Keoghan, where their absence would make Hell's Kitchen, Survivor or The Amazing Race what they are. The fact that Emmanuel slipped in and did seemingly pretty well in a first outing suggests to me that Chris is far from irreplaceable.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

As a Bachelor noob, I'm not sure what Chris brought to the table that is different from your average replacement, or really no host.

Nothing.  You've nailed him.

[adore]

Are Kaitlyn and Taysia working together on the upcoming seasons or will they each get a Bachelorette season to host? I assume the latter.

[JudyObscure]

If I never hear the phrase, "have a conversation" again it will be too soon.  Especially because the people who say it most don't really want to have a conversation at all, not even a talk.  What they want is to lecture while you listen. 

This show is over for me. I don't like watching public humiliations.  I'm just glad they didn't have a studio audience, they might have passed out stones.

[chocolatine]

Well, that was a miserable ending to a miserable season. I agree that Acho did a good job, but watching Matt was like pulling teeth. Onwards and upwards to what is hopefully a much more light-hearted Bachelorette season!

4 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

The red turtleneck was an odd choice. Perhaps Matt styled him?

CH must have slipped the stylist a few Benjamins to make Acho look ridiculous. What other justification is there for the suit that fit like a blood pressure cuff?

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

And is it just me but I thought I noticed some appreciative looks between Emmanuel and Michelle.  Katie just seemed to disappear when they were talking to one another.

Anyone else wonder if she'll even make it to her season single?

I noticed that and thought the same thing! TPTB had better keep Bri and/or Serena P. on stand-by just in case.

2 hours ago, dbell1 said:

I didn’t expect Matt to stay with whoever he picked, he’s not ready for settling down. But most of the Bachelors don’t get married. Aren’t we at 3 marriages after all these years?

Yes, and two of them aren't to the original F1s.

Edited March 16, 2021 by chocolatine

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm not a Katie fan, so I'm a little letdown, but I guess I should echo what someone else said and look forward to the men.

[Diana Berry]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

If I never hear the phrase, "have a conversation" again it will be too soon.  Especially because the people who say it most don't really want to have a conversation at all, not even a talk.  What they want is to lecture while you listen. 

This show is over for me. I don't like watching public humiliations.  I'm just glad they didn't have a studio audience, they might have passed out stones.

Yes.  Let me treat you like a 4 year old because I’m the great authoritarian.  While movies, rap songs, etc continue to degrade women, spur racism, etc  but no ‘ conversation’ about that. 

[Laurie4H]

9 hours ago, Tink said:

I was expecting the host to be better. Why did he ask them to share a final embrace? So awkward and not in tune with the conversation 

Because it’s probably scripted.  I feel asleep the last 10 minutes so I just watched the rest now.  It was ridiculous in my opinion.  Matt was just reciting the same thing over and over again “put in the work”. “The work you need to do”.  She didn’t shed one tear over their “breakup” just fake sniffles.  The whole thing was embarrassing in my opinion.  She wore a dress, she didn’t commit a hate crime.  They all need to get over themselves and their self righteousness.  

[Laurie4H]

8 hours ago, dbell1 said:

I didn’t expect Matt to stay with whoever he picked, he’s not ready for settling down. But most of the Bachelors don’t get married. Aren’t we at 3 marriages after all these years? I don’t think Matt expected the problematic photos and likes to just keep coming. Her mother hasn’t helped matters much either. With it all combined, he was done. It’s not his job to educate her to not be racially insensitive. 

I thought Emmanuel did a good job when he wasn’t reading off cue cards. But that “embrace” comment was just a hard pass. 

I wish this franchise would do a better job vetting the contestants. It’s less about the relationships and more about the reality. And that’s not what it used to be. 

 

The franchise probably knew about the picture and used it to talk about race.  I don’t feel there is anything natural about this show anymore.  

Edited March 16, 2021 by Laurie4H

[phlebas]

I admit... I thought Rachael did a great job in what must have been a tough discussion. No defensiveness, no deflecting, no excuses.

I'm not saying she's put in the work or deserves to not be held to account or anything like that. But for what that interview was, I don't know how she could have handled it better.

I'm guardedly optimistic she'll come out the other side of this a decent, well-rounded person. At least, I'm more optimistic about that from her than I am from Victoria, MJ, or Anna.

For now, I'll just be happy knowing there's more Michele, Katie, and Tayshia in my TV future.