S05.E05: A Long Road Home

[3 is enough]

4 hours ago, Tango64 said:

And this was critical: He did not respond to her size. I was waiting, cringing almost, to see what he would say. Because let's be honest, if a woman Kate's size walked up to you on the street, you'd notice and you might be taken aback even if you manage to not show it and to act like a polite human being. I was waiting for Marc to show some sign of shock at her size and then either manage to control it or be like the old Marc and say something hurtful. But there was nothing from him to indicate any suprise or concern that the Kate he remembered is now that big.

This is so true.  Given what we have seen of him his lack of response was totally out of character.

[CSunshine76]

I deleted TIU from my DVR after this episode. I’ve had enough with the birth parents, dead folks who aren’t dead story lines. They could have left it with Randall’s mom dying and him finding William.  Why so much drama for the guy? You know it is possible for adopted kids to grow up and not find (or even try to find) their birth parents.

And Toby sure took it well that Kate held the abortion secret for 4 years. That’s pretty important info that should have been discussed when she was dealing with fertility issues.

[camom]

Quote

After Kate walked away from Marc I was totally expecting her to be hit by a car as she crossed the street. 

I know.  It's pretty natural to look before you cross the street -- unless you are a Pearson, I guess, and assume any traffic will stop for you.

 

 

[Eureka]

19 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Did the makeup department add some prosthetics to 18 year-old Kate's face?  I don't recall her having double chins in earlier episodes and her face just looked much fuller, even around the eyes. 

I thought the same thing.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Eureka

[MochaJay]

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think I would understand Kevin and Madison a little more if they both agreed they were entering a marriage to have a life partner and co-parent together, and romantic love may come later (like an arranged marriage) I mean they had a one night stand so the sexual chemistry is there, but they have been thrust together under very unusual circumstances. That doesnt mean it cannot work, but again, what do they want out of this "thing"?

I think their vision of co-parenting is not a 50:50 custody split but sharing full involvement in their kids' lives. So they would be considering co-habiting even is they were not trying to pursue a relationship.

Split custody between households is not considered weird, but co-habiting parents pursuing seperate romantic relationships is a less common trend. I think Kevin, at least, would find such a non-traditional household much weirder than trying to build a nuclear family on the foundation of shared love for their children.

I think them both being 'in love with the idea of their family' is a good sign at this point. But they are only just getting past acting like polite houseguests around each other, so are starting the real work of the boundaries and compromises that are part of  marriage or co-parenting.

 

[Crs97]

I cannot explain why, but I have assumed Madison comes from a wealthy family and is some sort of social media “influencer” with a nice trust fund also financing her lifestyle.

[Jax7917]

I can’t tell if the writers are trying to make Madison and Kevin a slow burn , two people who are bad at relationships who will slowly fall in love without realizing it.. or are trying to show us that she isn’t his “Rebecca.” Personally , I don’t care for Madison and Kevin . There’s really nothing between them and it feels very forced . I am rooting for him and Sophie but for some reason I don’t like the casting for adult Sophie. I think I’d care for her more if the actress was different . Anyone else ? 

[MissLucas]

11 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I cannot explain why, but I have assumed Madison comes from a wealthy family and is some sort of social media “influencer” with a nice trust fund also financing her lifestyle.

Same here - but I'm not sure why. Maybe because we never get to see her work? The only thing pointing into that direction was back in season 2 when she got Kate to that bridal shop that was by appointment only (she mentioned a little fee and I assumed that it had not been that little). I'm trying to remember what car she was driving when she bumped into Kate's car (or vice versa) - was it something fancy?

[MoonMountain]

51 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I cannot explain why, but I have assumed Madison comes from a wealthy family and is some sort of social media “influencer” with a nice trust fund also financing her lifestyle.

That is the only thing I can think of...she must be a trust fund kid or something. I live in LA, and recognized the area she and Kevin were walking around when the woman came up to them wanting a selfie. So her house is in Hollywood. She mentioned having a spare/guest bedroom, so it's at least a 2 bedroom house, and we've seen a decent-sized living room and kitchen, plus a garage in the back. In the current LA market, and in that area, that would be at least a million dollar house if she owned it. If she rented, I'd guess the monthly rent payment would be somewhere around $3500-4500. Either way, she must be doing decently for herself if she was living there alone with no roommates.

With Toby and Kate trying to have a baby for 2 years, and many doctor's visits in that time, I'd imagine there's no way her pregnancy wouldn't have come up at some point. That's kind of a fail on the show/writer's part. If they had been trying on their own with no doctors involved, I can see why she may not have told him. But with all of the medical intervention, it doesn't seem realistic.

[MoonMountain]

I looked at teen Kate's Instagram, and she has a post saying she wears a prosthetic under her chin on the show. The post was from 2018, so I guess they've been doing this for a while now, although I just noticed her double chin last night. 

[ams1001]

The fandom wiki just says Madison "volunteers at a local high school" (which I do not remember at all).

[Snapdragon]

4 hours ago, madmax said:

Regarding Kate's abortion, she would not have been allowed to do that without somebody with her.  PA law at that time was pretty stringent on that.  I know.

Why would she have to have someone with her?  So that she'd have someone to drive her home afterwards?  

[Rockstar99435]

13 hours ago, debraran said:

I feel that young girl will be a grandchild maybe or Laurel or there will be siblings or cousins, etc. There has to be or Laurel would not be dead.

If they wanted to write a storyline where Randal connects with his bio family, why not just have him start hanging out with all of his cousins from William's side? I'm pretty sure they lived in Philadelphia.

9 hours ago, ams1001 said:

And of course he's such a loser, he's still on MySpace.

But then Kate told him that she knew where he was because they have a same friend on Facebook. 

[Madding crowd]

Legal abortion does not cause infertility so Kate did not have to tell Toby if she didn’t want to. She would have been asked her pregnancy history during her first Ob appointment, but maybe Toby wasn’t there. My husband didn’t go with me to all my appointments due to his schedule. I don’t think most people would want to confront an abuser in person, but maybe it was important to her.

I don’t see any romantic feelings between Kevin and Madison and I don’t see how she could expect him to give up his dreams and not act. I think he also wanted a nanny so Madison could pursue her own interests whatever they might be.

I am kind of curious about Laurel, but I feel Randall’s story seems to be about pulling him away from the Pearson’s and it makes me sad. I would rather see him and his siblings together. I wonder if they are looking at a spin off with Randall without Kevin and Kate. I did enjoy the episode but it made me sad like many of them do.

[ams1001]

6 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I wonder if they are looking at a spin off with Randall without Kevin and Kate. 

Ugh, I hope not.

[MissLucas]

Yeah, 'This is I' does not quite have the same ring to it.

Edited January 7, 2021 by MissLucas

[CrystalBlue]

47 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Yeah, 'This is I' does not quite have the same ring to it.

Oh, it definitely would be This Is Randall.  😏

[ElectricBoogaloo]

12 hours ago, ams1001 said:

And of course he's such a loser, he's still on MySpace.

But Justin Timberlake made it cool again when he bought a stake in the company! Nah, it was still dead even after that.

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

The fandom wiki just says Madison "volunteers at a local high school" (which I do not remember at all).

This was brought up only because Madison said the school where she volunteered was looking for a choir/music teacher which is what sent Kate on her 2 week journey to finish college.

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

The fandom wiki just says Madison "volunteers at a local high school" (which I do not remember at all).

It was when Kate had the desire to be a music teacher for one hot minute and Madison said she knew of an opening at the high school where she volunteers. Also, if all Madison does is volunteering it must mean she's independently wealthy. That's probably also why she said she didn't need anything from Kevin when she first told him about the pregnancy.

2 hours ago, Rockstar99435 said:

If they wanted to write a storyline where Randal connects with his bio family, why not just have him start hanging out with all of his cousins from William's side? I'm pretty sure they lived in Philadelphia.

They live in Memphis, which is William's hometown. There was a "very special episode" in S1 about Randall and William taking a road trip there. (I think next week's episode is an attempt at another "very special episode" like that one.)

[Poohbear617]

While i too am tired of the dead/undead new family members, at least beth got him to make the calland ask the questionabout william telling the truth (as william knew).  ,i was so not looking forward to an entire season of Randall being all mopey thinking William lied and randall feeling all betrayed again.  I hate the cliche of people not asking g basic questions and then letting it fester and then jump to other conclusions. Just learn how to talk!!!

[circumvent]

I didn't mind Kate's speech so much, I just thought a little over the top the need to go see someone in the middle of a pandemic. What bothered me was how the writers just come up with stories that cannot fit what they have been telling us. Every woman who goes to a gyn appointment fills up forms and answer these questions: are you pregnant? Do you have children? How many pregnancies?

It is completely irresponsible and out of character for Kate to withhold the information about her abortion. She was informed about all she did to get pregnant, her doctor should know about it but since the writers just came up with this story two year later, they ignored something so basic. Why not having Kate tell Toby while affirming that she did inform her doctors?  

[qtpye]

I felt the Kate storyline was tacked on to explain why (particularly compared to her brothers) Kate had made so little progress in life since Jack's death.

I am very sympathetic to someone who has been in an abusive relationship. I also can see why 18 year old vulnerable Kate would fall prey to a 24 year old dirt bag.

However, stalking your ex of 20 years, driving for hours, and confronting him at his place of work is not a healthy way to get "closure". The guy could have been dangerous or unstable.

[nlkm9]

14 hours ago, MochaJay said:

I think their vision of co-parenting is not a 50:50 custody split but sharing full involvement in their kids' lives. So they would be considering co-habiting even is they were not trying to pursue a relationship.

Split custody between households is not considered weird, but co-habiting parents pursuing seperate romantic relationships is a less common trend. I think Kevin, at least, would find such a non-traditional household much weirder than trying to build a nuclear family on the foundation of shared love for their children.

I think them both being 'in love with the idea of their family' is a good sign at this point. But they are only just getting past acting like polite houseguests around each other, so are starting the real work of the boundaries and compromises that are part of  marriage or co-parenting.

 

Wasn’t there an episode after she told Kevin about the pregnancy that they showed Kevin and Madison spending several hours in bed together ? I never thought they just slept together that one crazy night .

[Ohiopirate02]

21 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

Wasn’t there an episode after she told Kevin about the pregnancy that they showed Kevin and Madison spending several hours in bed together ? I never thought they just slept together that one crazy night .

In the first episode of this season, we saw Kevin move into Madison's house to form their own pandemic bubble.  Initially it was in the name of future co-parenting and Kevin stayed in the guest room.  Somewhere between March and August they became a couple, and Kevin proposed on his 40th birthday.

[Lady Calypso]

14 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I can’t tell if the writers are trying to make Madison and Kevin a slow burn , two people who are bad at relationships who will slowly fall in love without realizing it.. or are trying to show us that she isn’t his “Rebecca.” Personally , I don’t care for Madison and Kevin . There’s really nothing between them and it feels very forced . I am rooting for him and Sophie but for some reason I don’t like the casting for adult Sophie. I think I’d care for her more if the actress was different . Anyone else ? 

Personally, I like the idea of Madison/Kevin and I even appreciate that they're showing the two not even close to being in a romantic relationship right now. These are two people who slept together once and got pregnant as a result. They're two people who had to start living together and be in close proximity 24/7 for months right off the bat and they barely know each other. Their focus has been on the babies that they haven't had time to really look at each other as people. They got together under abnormal circumstances and the fact that they're having issues is realistic, and I appreciate it. I would hate for this show to have Kevin find his "Rebecca", because he should find a woman of his own that doesn't fall under the pressures of how perfect his parents seemed to be. I appreciate when we can see these arguments and fights that make someone not look so good. It feels more realistic that this is how Kevin/Madison is playing out. Neither are in love with the other. Both have different expectations of this relationship and their major hurdle is not communicating their wants and needs out of their relationship. 

Madison recognizes that she's not in love with Kevin and just wants this to be a marriage of convenience, of sorts. At least, this is as of right now. Kevin loves the idea of a family but it also trying to make it work in other ways. Neither are on the same page, which is fine with me. It doesn't make me hate Madison and it doesn't make me hate Kevin. Of course Madison could be handling this better, but she hasn't had to be in tune with his highly demanding job until now. I think it's going to parallel Teen Kevin's storyline with how he had to travel to LA and be away from his wife for months and how that affected his relationship with her. Not necessarily in the same way, but Madison is learning about Kevin's job as an actor just like Teen Sophie had to. 

I don't know where this show is going toward (whether it's Madison dying in childbirth or Madison/Kevin trying to make their family situation work) but I think it's being handled fairly decently. It's nice to see that they don't have that chemistry right off the bat because, sometimes, chemistry has to be earned, in a way. Sometimes it ISN'T love at first sight. And if it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. 

I personally could never truly root for Kevin/Sophie after the way he treated her in their relationship, both at 18 and at 37, but I recognize that they could end up together in the future flash forwards. But I don't want them to get together NOW. Just because Kevin's changed as a person and is fixing his mistakes, it doesn't mean Sophie should run right back to him. They have too much bad history. If I was her, I would be happy with him growing but it would be so hard to trust him in that way again. There'd always be those bad moments that split the relationship twice. 

[Ohiopirate02]

15 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I can’t tell if the writers are trying to make Madison and Kevin a slow burn , two people who are bad at relationships who will slowly fall in love without realizing it.. or are trying to show us that she isn’t his “Rebecca.” Personally , I don’t care for Madison and Kevin . There’s really nothing between them and it feels very forced . I am rooting for him and Sophie but for some reason I don’t like the casting for adult Sophie. I think I’d care for her more if the actress was different . Anyone else ? 

I am rooting for Kevin and Madison to work it out.  Their story reads like a modern "marriage of convenience" romance plot, which is my jam.  I like seeing them each earn a happy ending as they grow together.  I think the show has done a good job so far showing both of them working out their issues together.  It's much slower than the rest of the adult Pearson marriages. I like seeing the harder moments before we eventually get to the happier ones.  There is a lot of potential in this storyline if written well.  

I am against Kevin and Sophie 3.0.  I just see something wrong in having Madison being a vehicle to get Kevin the kids he wants and as a tool for him to become a better man.  Madison should be the one to reap the rewards, not Sophie.  

[debraran]

Has anyone mentioned Madison's family? She's having twins, is there a mom or dad or sister?

I don't think of Kevin as an reward, he's a handsome actor with issues but not a prize. I think whomever he can build a life with he should be with.  They were both reckless and got pregnant, Kevin should know better and not being that fertile (forgot what Madison said exactly) doesn't mean you "wing it" Kevin was apologizing for it and wouldn't have seen Madison again if she didn't say she was pregnant. Things can grow between them but I don't think feeling trapped into it is the good start. Co-parenting seems the best thing now although the initial baby glow will make Kevin think he has to stay. When he gets a call to leave, he'll feel guilty which is why I asked about family.

I feel the writers added things with covid, Marc seemed to be added and Madison but who really knows what original outline was.  A writer said Sophie is not gone just not now. No promises but didn't want to have Sophie fans to tune out. He made valid points last year that Kevin was immature the first time he messed up, drunk the second time and in denial and the third time could be the charm. The meeting her and setting up the regret, the visit to her Mom's grave, the ring she never put on even  though "engaged" , her mom always supported him when his mom didn't and I felt sucker punched when Madison said she was pregnant. The writer made it feel like it would be sweeter later. We will see if it was a lie or real soon enough. ; ) I'll enjoy the ride.

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by debraran

[3 is enough]

I am still waiting for the Rebecca/Miguel story.  Instead, we are going to get the story Randall's birth mother. That would be fine for one episode, just to give Randall some closure.  But knowing how these things go I'm pretty sure there will be a long lost sibling or two showing up.  

No Rebecca except for the flashback scene.  I wonder if Mandy Moore will have fewer scenes since her due date is approaching and it will be harder to disguise her pregnancy?

[nixgirl28]

On 1/6/2021 at 5:44 AM, Blackie said:

Anyways, I'm also with Toby, I don't really believe that a miscarriage and repeated attempts to get pregnant wouldn't bring up all these feelings  about the abortion

My thoughts too. She'd have experienced similar things during the miscarriage as after the abortion; all the fertility talks and IVF retrieval, the very first OB appointment they ask you your pregnancy history. None of that brought up these bad memories? Ok. It's obvious the abortion storyline was a recent idea as well as Marc's abuse. The whole foundation of Kate's character, her weight, emotional struggles, low self esteem, etc was her relationship with her dad and his death. Now it's being rewritten that it was about Marc. I feel the writing has gotten sloppy and they're rewriting the characters' histories, mostly Kate and Randall.

[nlkm9]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

In the first episode of this season, we saw Kevin move into Madison's house to form their own pandemic bubble.  Initially it was in the name of future co-parenting and Kevin stayed in the guest room.  Somewhere between March and August they became a couple, and Kevin proposed on his 40th birthday.

So during that episode did they have sex again? Or was it only the one time ? It is a strange situation

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

So during that episode did they have sex again? Or was it only the one time ? It is a strange situation

They are sharing a bed now and have had sex at least once.  That episode tried to fit 6 months into 20 minutes of TV and a lot was lost.  

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I am rooting for Kevin and Madison to work it out.  Their story reads like a modern "marriage of convenience" romance plot, which is my jam.  I like seeing them each earn a happy ending as they grow together.  I think the show has done a good job so far showing both of them working out their issues together.  It's much slower than the rest of the adult Pearson marriages. I like seeing the harder moments before we eventually get to the happier ones.  There is a lot of potential in this storyline if written well.  

I am against Kevin and Sophie 3.0.  I just see something wrong in having Madison being a vehicle to get Kevin the kids he wants and as a tool for him to become a better man.  Madison should be the one to reap the rewards, not Sophie.  

No one has mentioned what would be best for the twins.  An intact family with Mom and Dad being there all the time, save for father's work travel, or a fragmented visitation schedule with two parents pit against each other and essentially going it alone when they have the babies/kids.  It's not too late to sort out the details and compromise for the good of the children.

[Crs97]

I am tired of waiting for Miguel's story.  Why did TPTB even introduce him if they have no interest in telling us anything about him?  Right now he is the only character I really care about.  

[madmax]

18 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

Why would she have to have someone with her?  So that she'd have someone to drive her home afterwards?  

That was my assumption, but I was told I couldn't have the procedure without someone in the waiting room.

[Norma Desmond]

On 1/6/2021 at 12:44 AM, cardigirl said:

My guess is that after Laurel was revived, she ended up being incarcerated, and because William thought she was dead, she never knew where he went. He was so grief stricken, he never went back to their apartment, he just left, and when Laurel finally got out, she could not find him or find out what happened to her child.

But wouldn't he at least have the decency to find where she was buried? Visit her grave? Be at  least curious about how her funeral went? Or who paid for her burial? That storyline has so many plot holes, I'll use it to sift my tapioca flour.

[cardigirl]

3 minutes ago, Norma Desmond said:

But wouldn't he at least have the decency to find where she was buried? Visit her grave? Be at  least curious about how her funeral went? Or who paid for her burial? That storyline has so many plot holes, I'll use it to sift my tapioca flour.

Not if he was afraid of being prosecuted. And the grief. I think he got on a bus and either headed home or to NYC.  I don't think he stayed in the city. 

[Ohiopirate02]

31 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Not if he was afraid of being prosecuted. And the grief. I think he got on a bus and either headed home or to NYC.  I don't think he stayed in the city. 

William does stay in Pittsburgh though.  He tracks Rebecca down years later and she visits his apartment.  He gets clean and moves to Philadelphia sometime between 1988ish and 2015.  That being said, William was a drug addict back then and made bad decisions like all addicts do.  

[nixgirl28]

48 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Not if he was afraid of being prosecuted. And the grief. I think he got on a bus and either headed home or to NYC.  I don't think he stayed in the city. 

Well, Rebecca was able to find William fairly easily shortly after bringing Randall home. The bus driver knew him and where he lived, she was able to figure out his exact apartment from a neighbor, I assume. It seems that, based on the first season's writing, he stayed in the same apartment, at least for a time. I'm curious how the writers will work all these inconsistencies together. 

[nlkm9]

4 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

I am still waiting for the Rebecca/Miguel story.  Instead, we are going to get the story Randall's birth mother. That would be fine for one episode, just to give Randall some closure.  But knowing how these things go I'm pretty sure there will be a long lost sibling or two showing up.  

No Rebecca except for the flashback scene.  I wonder if Mandy Moore will have fewer scenes since her due date is approaching and it will be harder to disguise her pregnancy?

Oh i would love a rebecca Miguel story!!!

[kili]

Quote

Well, Rebecca was able to find William fairly easily shortly after bringing Randall home. The bus driver knew him and where he lived, she was able to figure out his exact apartment from a neighbor, I assume. It seems that, based on the first season's writing, he stayed in the same apartment, at least for a time. I'm curious how the writers will work all these inconsistencies together. 

I'm curious as well. If Rebecca can find him based on seeing him lurking around the hospital, the mother of his child should certainly be able to track him down. And how did the PI manage to find William and that Lauren was dead, when she wasn't dead? Randall better get a refund. Where does the PI get the story that Lauren is dead when she is not? How does he find William 35 years later when Lauren can't find him the next day?  How does he associate William with the birth at all if he doesn't find Lauren? Mothers are easier to find than fathers - especially mothers that show up at hospitals shortly after birth. How could the authorities not figure out that the one baby that was found at the fire station might be related to the one woman that just gave birth and is missing a child? Either it's one crazy conspiracy or a whole lot of incompetency. IDK Maybe William was an early adapter of 23andMe and that's how the PI found him and he crashed one of Williams AI meetings and got his version of the Lauren story without tipping him off that he was working for his son. 

On another front, they take great pains to show us that Marc has not changed one iota and then have Marc just placidly take Kate's "you-ruined-my-life-but-now-I've-overcome-it-you-disease" speech? The Marc we know would have insulted her.

As unrealistic as his reaction was, his boss was even more unrealistic. "I'm angry that you are taking your third smoke break in an hour, why don't you take five more minutes?"

[Jillybean]

I just found the Kate plotline so utterly implausible. To suddenly need to see Marc after all this time was really bizarre. Granted, I have no experience in an abusive relationship, but it just seemed to strange to suddenly want to go see your abusive ex from 22 years ago. He was horrible to her but I don't know that it would have been considered abuse back then the way it is today. He was cruel to her while she was grieving her dad. I wonder whether it is following the abortion that she starts hanging around outside the old house stuffing her face with Big Macs.

[LoveLeigh]

On 1/6/2021 at 5:26 PM, 3 is enough said:

This is so true.  Given what we have seen of him his lack of response was totally out of character.

It was out of character because I believe the writers were more invested in protecting Chrissy the actor than in drawing Marc true to what his personality would have been. 

[debraran]

37 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I just found the Kate plotline so utterly implausible. To suddenly need to see Marc after all this time was really bizarre. Granted, I have no experience in an abusive relationship, but it just seemed to strange to suddenly want to go see your abusive ex from 22 years ago. He was horrible to her but I don't know that it would have been considered abuse back then the way it is today. He was cruel to her while she was grieving her dad. I wonder whether it is following the abortion that she starts hanging around outside the old house stuffing her face with Big Macs.

I thought she did that yearly on the anniversary but really to get her to where she was at 40, maybe blaming just her dad wasn't enough. Someone commented they seemed to change course a bit and maybe they added Marc later (no one really knows) The fact Chrissy didn't lose weight maybe had them add a dimension. But even an abortion doesn't fully entail such a tailspin. No one was able to help her and I wonder if therapy will be brought up to say it was at least suggested. They have her being in a lot of pain and filling a space that was empty. It is not about accepting anyone at any size etc. because that goes without saying, but Kate was never that out of control and to watch it later must have been hard. I can't imagine no one trying to help her.

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by debraran

[cardigirl]

How old is Randall when Rebecca first sees william watching them? Was it before she took the babies home from the hospital? 

[Katy M]

Just now, cardigirl said:

How old is Randall when Rebecca first sees william watching them? Was it before she took the babies home from the hospital? 

Yes, it's when they're getting in the car to go home.  She sees him and somehow manages to track him down.

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

No one has mentioned what would be best for the twins.  An intact family with Mom and Dad being there all the time, save for father's work travel, or a fragmented visitation schedule with two parents pit against each other and essentially going it alone when they have the babies/kids.  It's not too late to sort out the details and compromise for the good of the children.

But an intact family with Mom and Dad being together, but one of them resenting the other because they aren't doing what they really want or aren't really in love isn't what is best for the twins though.  A fragmented visitation schedule isn't bad if the parents still communicate and share responsibilities without fighting.

I kind of hope Kevin and Madison do make it work though. Kevin deserves to have a happily ever after and he clearly wants to be in love with the mother of his children.

 

[Blackie]

2 hours ago, kili said:

Randall better get a refund. 

 

this made me laugh !!!

[bettername2come]

I appreciated Toby's response that spending two years trying to get pregnant was a lot of time where a previous pregnancy could've come up naturally. It wasn't rude or angry but was a legitimate point. Marc is lame, but he does look younger than 46 to me, especially for a smoker. "Broken in all the right places" is disgusting. 

I liked the moments of connection between Kevin and Randall. In their teen years they definitely seem closer over the phone. I can believe that Kevin considers what would Randall do. It makes me think of their first onscreen conversation in season 1. I liked that Randall looked a bit teary-eyed at Kevin saying that. I hope Kevin doesn't think Randall just wanted to end an awkward conversation.

I like that Beth jumped right in with Randall for the phone call. I love how they function as a unit in their best moments. I'm glad Randall got some closer by hearing that William was probably telling the truth. He doesn't need additional issues about parents lying about parents' whereabouts. 

[RedDelicious]

It’s hard to explain but when you’re in an abusive relationship with a narcissist like Marc, it’s really difficult to get other people to understand the absolute crushing impact it has on you. They just don’t get it. All of my relationships except for two when I was young were with narcissists. I didn’t know what a narc was or how they operate. I couldn’t explain how terrible they were without coming off like a total victim. I couldn’t get anyone to understand what I was going through because I didn’t understand it myself. I had trauma bonds. My therapist was completely worthless. I had to dig myself out with self-help books and narc recovery support accounts on Instagram. That’s how I learned how to help myself and get better. People still don’t understand. 

I thought they did a great job depicting it with Kate and Marc and it really hit home for me. 

[Snapdragon]

6 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I just found the Kate plotline so utterly implausible. To suddenly need to see Marc after all this time was really bizarre. Granted, I have no experience in an abusive relationship, but it just seemed to strange to suddenly want to go see your abusive ex from 22 years ago. He was horrible to her but I don't know that it would have been considered abuse back then the way it is today.

Of course it would have been considered abuse.  I'm two years younger than the Big Three and different types of abusive relationships were covered in school several times (physical, emotional, sexual,  etc).  In high school alone, I can recall at least three classes where we covered the subject and watched a movie related to it.  And let's be real, Kate knew Marc's behavior was abusive, which is why she tried to hide his actions at the cabin from her family.  For the most part, people know when they're in an abusive relationship, they just don't want to admit it because they're ashamed, scared or in denial.  

That being said, Kate's behavior of cyberstalking her ex, then randomly showing up at his work was super ridiculous.  At that point, she became the creeper ex instead of Marc.