S05.E05: A Long Road Home

[circumvent]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I think that Madison was a little hard on Kevin. I get that she wants them to put down roots and she wants them to be a priority, but Kevin is a professional actor, travel is always going to be a part of his life, it seems unfair for him to have to just give up his career. I guess Kevin can try to get back on TV or just focus on smaller projects? What does she actually want him to do? I feel like Madison sometimes just gets upset with Kevin but she never tells him exactly what she wants. I did love her cutting off the Pearson speech in mid speech though. 

I haven't watched yet but it seems that the conflict is that Madison wants Kevin to be around for when the babies come? I can understand that but this shows how much unaware of how most people live TV writers are. Most people just need to keep working to have basic needs met, sometimes not even that, and they are creating drama about this? The system conditions us to work all the time, it makes us believe that work is a moral superiority and a sign of success and strength, the system punishes people who don't work at the same time that don't even offer good work, or even any work. It shouldn't be this way, the conflict is causing anger that is wrongly directed.

[Chatty Cake]

I didn’t like the Kate storyline. The topic of a previous pregnancy would have come up in some form when they were trying. They went thru a lot just to have Jack. 
Looking the guy up was fine but going to see him the next day, during a pandemic without a disruption to your day as a parent was unbelievable. Then the guy just standing there while she goes on about their brief relationship and her being so very overweight made no sense. I’m glad the guy didn’t say something nasty about her size but if he was the same douche they made him out to be, it’s odd that he didn’t insult her.  It made Kate look weak for not moving on from the guy. 
Madison and Kevin, I feel like he may as well really try and make it work with her even though she’s annoying right now.

 

[MsJamieDornan]

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Only Kevin took steps and apologized for what he'd said. Randall didn't apologize for his part and blew Kevin off because he needed to make a "very important" call right that second. Because his brother sounding distressed and asking for advice is obviously not important enough to give him another 10-15 minutes of his time.

I was so annoyed by that.

OMG, I wanted to throw my shoe at Madison. Being "all in" doesnt mean Kevin has to quit his job for her.  Let's hope later on he can file for full custody because she  is crazy !!

And of course, Randall will have siblings, probably tons of tem.

Edited January 6, 2021 by MsJamieDornan

[Blackie]

8 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Also, was he never in the room when a doctor asked if she'd been pregnant before (before the miscarriage) as part of her medical history? If so, did she lie to the doctor and say she'd never been pregnant? Like he said, they talked about pregnancy a lot over the course of the two years they tried to conceive; it IS strange that she never said anything.

 

^^^ THIS! Also when she was pregnant with Jack they would have asked her how many previous pregnancies.

Anyways, I'm also with Toby, I don't really believe that a miscarriage and repeated attempts to get pregnant wouldn't bring up all these feelings  about the abortion.  In the ride home, Kate seemed satisfied but Toby seemed off, maybe this is bringing up something for him so unfortunately this isn't going to be the end of this storyline.

 

3 hours ago, buttersister said:

One more time for the folks in back, Madison! You told Kevin you would have the baby without him--didn't know about twins--but he felt a responsibility. Now you get to throw that in his face every time things don't go 100% your way

 

It seems to me that Kevin is the one who has tried to figure out how he is going to try to make it work. What did she think he was going to start doing for a job? I guess she is secretly hoping he just works on a soap opera or a game show host

 

 

 

 

[Blakeston]

Kevin and Madison's relationship is terrible. When he got the phone call about Vancouver, he immediately said he was quitting - even though the movie clearly meant a lot to him, and he'd already filmed a lot of it - and then he tried to play it off like it was just a typical business call. When was he planning to tell her, exactly?

He's walking on eggshells around her, and it's easy to see why. She doesn't know what she wants, and in a weird way she seems to resent him for wanting to be involved in the babies' lives. And Kevin's romantic feelings don't even seem real - he's smitten with the idea of having a happy family, but I don't think he's actually smitten with Madison herself.

[MissLucas]

Kate keeping the pregnancy and abortion to herself for so long feels like a retcon even if it was planned from the beginning, but the set-up was so weird. Toby was right - this should have come up somewhere along all the years they've been together now.

Big nope on Kate confronting her abusive ex in that manner. It sends a wrong and dangerous message. It's not just that he was standing there listening to her trademark Pearson speech without retaliating - it also sends the message that confronting your abuser will give you closure because you'll see what a sore loser he's turned out to be. We would all like to believe that - yet IRL there's a good chance Marc ended up somewhere high up in the food chain because life is not a fairy tale.

Things are not going smooth for Madison and Kevin but I was glad to see that they were at least trying to communicate without resorting into drama. And yes, props to Madison for cutting short a Pearson speech. I actually love their relationship even though it looks as if it's not going to last. But it's sent Kevin on a good character path - he's clearly trying to be a better person/boyfriend/brother. The phone-call with Randall was excruciating but not unrealistic. I just don't like that once again some drama from his past is preventing Randall from reconnecting with his brother (and the rest of his family). But I was relieved to see him call his therapist - previous seasons Randall would not have done that. 

I do not know what new insights the Laurel arc could produce. While I understand that Randall needs to go down yet another bio-parental rabbit-hole it's frustrating to watch when the show has so many other great story lines to explore.

 

[debraran]

33 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Kate keeping the pregnancy and abortion to herself for so long feels like a retcon even if it was planned from the beginning, but the set-up was so weird. Toby was right - this should have come up somewhere along all the years they've been together now.

Big nope on Kate confronting her abusive ex in that manner. It sends a wrong and dangerous message. It's not just that he was standing there listening to her trademark Pearson speech without retaliating - it also sends the message that confronting your abuser will give you closure because you'll see what a sore loser he's turned out to be. We would all like to believe that - yet IRL there's a good chance Marc ended up somewhere high up in the food chain because life is not a fairy tale.

Things are not going smooth for Madison and Kevin but I was glad to see that they were at least trying to communicate without resorting into drama. And yes, props to Madison for cutting short a Pearson speech. I actually love their relationship even though it looks as if it's not going to last. But it's sent Kevin on a good character path - he's clearly trying to be a better person/boyfriend/brother. The phone-call with Randall was excruciating but not unrealistic. I just don't like that once again some drama from his past is preventing Randall from reconnecting with his brother (and the rest of his family). But I was relieved to see him call his therapist - previous seasons Randall would not have done that. 

I do not know what new insights the Laurel arc could produce. While I understand that Randall needs to go down yet another bio-parental rabbit-hole it's frustrating to watch when the show has so many other great story lines to explore.

 

Yes, in Covid times, she leaves Jack and goes to track down a 6 month (not continuously either) boyfriend from 20 years ago. She knows nothing about him really and has the gall to tell him Toby wanted to threaten him? For what? Being a jerk isn't a crime. If he raped her or something in the ball park of that, yes, but what many of us thought didn't happen.  She might have felt empowered but she gave him power too if still a jerk, that he had that much power over a woman 20 years running. He never even knew about the baby. Probably was confused how and why she was still eating too much for 2 decades and was he the only boyfriend? There was a married guy too in her 20's, not sure how that ended.

I feel that young girl will be a grandchild maybe or Laurel or there will be siblings or cousins, etc. There has to be or Laurel would not be dead.

Edited January 6, 2021 by debraran

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Mr. EB does not watch this show but for the first time in the five seasons I've been watching, he was in the living room while I watched. When Toby said he wanted to know the name of Kate's ex so he could go kill him, Mr. EB said, "Well, that went from zero to a thousand." I had to tell him that's par for the course with these characters.

I had a lot of feelings about Kate's abortion/Marc storyline. I think that when you are in a long term committed relationship (whether or not that involves marriage), you should talk about the important things that happened in your life because of course your partner will want to know about the things that shaped you. But I don't think you are ever obligated to tell someone that you had an abortion. That happened DECADES before Kate met Toby and it's not relevant to anything in their relationship. I think it was more important that she tell him that she'd been in an abusive relationship with a prize A jackass because that has had more of an impact on her life than the abortion did. But at the same time, I understand that it can be really difficult to discuss something that's really painful like an abusive relationship because it brings back a lot of terrible memories.

I hated that Kate felt like she had to actually see Marc in person in order to get closure. First of all, we're still in the middle of a pandemic and driving 100 miles to confront your ex is not exactly what I would consider essential travel. Secondly, you don't need to see or speak to your ex in order to get closure. Write him a letter and then burn it. Go talk to a therapist. There are so many other things you can do besides drive two hours to see your loser ex in person. 99% of the time, they aren't going to give you the answers that you're looking for anyway. But hey, we got to see that Marc is a slacker and a loser. Three smoke breaks in an hour? DUDE.

A tv/movie cliche I hate is people showing up at someone else's work to confront them. I get that you're mad or whatever, but there is no reason to go to their place of business for that. Sure, Marc was an abusive asshole twenty years ago, but should he have to get surprised by you at his job because you decided it's time to have a talk?

Kate's need to find Marc and talk to him about their relationship reminded me of Rob's quest to find all the girls who had dumped him in High Fidelity. Charlie put it best when she described it as a "what does this all mean?" thing.

The best thing that came from Kate's conversation with Marc was pointing out to him that they weren't kids as he claimed. He was a TWENTY FOUR YEAR OLD MAN who took advantage of a grieving teenager. Like many abusers, he was able to smell the vulnerability coming off of her and use it to his advantage.

I was glad when teenage Kate realized he was a jackass and just left his apartment without a word.

On a shallow note, I hate when I see things like Kate sitting in bed with the bedside lamp on using her laptop while Toby was asleep. You live in a house that has more than one room. If you want to cyberstalk your ex-boyfriend, you can do that in another room so that your significant other doesn't have to try to sleep in a room with multiple light sources on! You can be a considerate person and let people sleep in a dark room. Go do whatever you need to do in another room.

I loved that when Randall said he needed to go for a run, Beth muttered to herself that he needed to call his therapist and then he ended up calling his therapist. I was glad that he finally called the guy who contacted him. Sure, it could have been a scam but as the therapist pointed out, Randall spent his whole life trying to find connections to his biological family, seeing every Black person as a potential relative. Now that he has the opportunity to get some information about his mother, he should.

8 hours ago, Runningwild said:

So is the Canadian border open just for Hollywood? Or are they making stuff up as they go along?

Several shows resumed filming in Vancouver during the fall. Many began filming in September but had to briefly shut down until October due to a backlog of COVID tests.

[geauxaway]

7 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I completely agree with you both. She has become so damn dour! Why is she acting so surprised about Kevin needing to travel for work? Actors at Kevin's level travel, and I refuse to believe she's too stupid to know this. Then, she makes some sort of statement about how she didn't ask him to be in their (her and her children's) lives. If she didn't want Kevin involved, then why even tell him she was pregnant? The minute she told him it was absolutely possible that he'd want to be involved. It was pretty bold of her to think that he'd want nothing to do with his children. I'd hate for Kevin to end up with Madison; they should an example of effective co-parenting not some sort of romantic comedy plot.

I’m still trying to figure out how she was going to manage bringing up twins as a single mom if she hadn’t told him.  I know she wouldn’t have known it was twins at first, but it is and she still made the statement to Kevin this episode that she had planned on doing it alone just fine.  Uh?  What is her job again?  Party planner?  Does she have a support system other than Kate?   Nothing seems to make Madison happy and I don’t see this ending well for her and Kev.  Which is fine, but she has a long road ahead of her as a parent if she is this obstinate about something as critical as her partners JOB.

[debraran]

10 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

I’m still trying to figure out how she was going to manage bringing up twins as a single mom if she hadn’t told him.  I know she wouldn’t have known it was twins at first, but it is and she still made the statement to Kevin this episode that she had planned on doing it alone just fine.  Uh?  What is her job again?  Party planner?  Does she have a support system other than Kate?   Nothing seems to make Madison happy and I don’t see this ending well for her and Kev.  Which is fine, but she has a long road ahead of her as a parent if she is this obstinate about something as critical as her partners JOB.

Do you think being a recovering bulimic, she will fall back on that? Do they deliberately show her not eating on purpose. She's not small but for 2 babies, not big.  Will she be too delicate to take the stress of it? She needs more than Kevin especially if traveling. That is his job, he isn't working at at company nearby and she needs to lean on more than Kate. She'll have 2 babies maybe herself. (another odd story)  I don't know where TIU is taking this, if Madison will be around long, if they will co-parent with stress, if she will die, but this is not Kevin's end.

Edited January 6, 2021 by debraran

[Jax7917]

Yeah I think the words , “I’m falling in love ..... with the idea of a family” ( on both their parts ) spoke volumes . Clearly that’s all it is between them . Kevin doesn’t seem very into her as a romantic love interest but he is trying . Madison isn’t letting him try to build a relationship with her , but instead is complaining about every little thing he does or doesn’t do . 

[Jillybean]

I don't get Madison either. She was all giddy about the one-night stand with Kevin ("at one point, I was upside-down") but now that the pregnancy has led to an engagement with a hot, rich, successful actor, that isn't enough? Yes, they both deserve love. But seriously, to nit-pick at the career that's going to support her and her babies seems...well, maybe she's just hormonal. 

[Blackie]

9 hours ago, Runningwild said:

So is the Canadian border open just for Hollywood? Or are they making stuff up as they go along?

 

The border is only closed for non essential car travel. People can drive across the border for work. People can fly back and forth across the border for what ever reason they want, in Canada they must isolate for 2 weeks. Although some "essential" workers get a pass on this.

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

In the previous episode, didn't she have some issue about her weight? Well, when a woman is pregnant gaining weight comes with the condition. She is just a real Debbie Downer. 

I am not going to criticize Madison over how she told Kevin about her ED. She said bulimia almost took her life when she was 17, she seems to be doing her maintenance "treatment" (I am not sure what its called when you're out of active ED recovery, or if its always recovery) so that she can have a healthy pregnancy. That doesn't mean she isn't allowed to have feelings about it especially quarantined with Kevin in the middle of a pandemic.....on top of general feelings about her first pregnancy. 

Everything else though, yeah I am with you, but how she is handling her ED seems to be very mature, self aware, healthy but realistic. I think I would understand Kevin and Madison a little more if they both agreed they were entering a marriage to have a life partner and co-parent together, and romantic love may come later (like an arranged marriage) I mean they had a one night stand so the sexual chemistry is there, but they have been thrust together under very unusual circumstances. That doesnt mean it cannot work, but again, what do they want out of this "thing"?

[nixgirl28]

After Kate walked away from Marc I was totally expecting her to be hit by a car as she crossed the street. I was bracing myself for it. 

 

Kind of a meh episode for me; it wasn't worth the wait

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

 

He's walking on eggshells around her, and it's easy to see why. She doesn't know what she wants, and in a weird way she seems to resent him for wanting to be involved in the babies' lives. And Kevin's romantic feelings don't even seem real - he's smitten with the idea of having a happy family, but I don't think he's actually smitten with Madison herself.

It's odd to me that they have been quarantining together for months, but neither has discussed basics like: "What will our lives together be like after the babies are born?"  I do wish someone sat down with both of them and said: "You didn't have a relationship before the babies were conceived, and it's completely okay if your relationship going forward is just as friends/co-parents and nothing more."  I think that would take a huge amount of pressure off both of them. 

3 hours ago, Blackie said:

Anyways, I'm also with Toby, I don't really believe that a miscarriage and repeated attempts to get pregnant wouldn't bring up all these feelings  about the abortion.  In the ride home, Kate seemed satisfied but Toby seemed off, maybe this is bringing up something for him so unfortunately this isn't going to be the end of this storyline.

I wasn't with either of them.  Toby's first reaction to hearing about what appeared to be an extremely traumatic situation for his wife was to make it about himself.  Kate's reaction was to seemingly try to "fix" things by tracking the guy down and confronting him, as a way to resolve the situation.  So Toby was a jerk, and Kate looked unbalanced. 

[NoReally]

I'm just glad Randall learned that his father didn't lie to him. I thought for sure they'd drag that out for four or five episodes.

[OpalNightstream]

8 minutes ago, NoReally said:

I'm just glad Randall learned that his father didn't lie to him. I thought for sure they'd drag that out for four or five episodes.

Saint William wouldn’t lie! He’s always just a victim of circumstance. 

[Jax7917]

13 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

It's odd to me that they have been quarantining together for months, but neither has discussed basics like: "What will our lives together be like after the babies are born?"  I do wish someone sat down with both of them and said: "You didn't have a relationship before the babies were conceived, and it's completely okay if your relationship going forward is just as friends/co-parents and nothing more."  I think that would take a huge amount of pressure off both of them. 

I wasn't with either of them.  Toby's first reaction to hearing about what appeared to be an extremely traumatic situation for his wife was to make it about himself.  Kate's reaction was to seemingly try to "fix" things by tracking the guy down and confronting him, as a way to resolve the situation.  So Toby was a jerk, and Kate looked unbalanced. 

Yeah and what if the guy had changed and gone to therapy for his issues , etc ? To show up randomly at his job and start telling him off and risking his job is just not cool . It turns out he most likely was still the same person , but what if he wasn’t ? 

[Runningwild]

1 hour ago, Blackie said:

 

The border is only closed for non essential car travel. People can drive across the border for work. People can fly back and forth across the border for what ever reason they want, in Canada they must isolate for 2 weeks. Although some "essential" workers get a pass on this.

Yeah, movies are essential. Flying in a tube with a bunch of strangers  is much safer than crossing the border in your own car.  

[MissL]

12 hours ago, ErinV said:

It’s only because “William Hill” is such an unusual, uncommon name that this storyline isn’t far fetched at all 🙄

Right?! For goodness sake it’s my grandpa’s name and every time they say it I pause...and it’s the name of a winery in Napa! 

Loved my grandpa Bill. Just had to say it cuz he was the absolute best. 😊

[Cheyanne11]

Lots of great points made here!

My observations:

- I was glad (not really the right word, but can't grasp one better) that the show didn't take the 'miscarriage before she can get an abortion' route that lots of shows have done in the past to avoid tackling that subject matter.  For teenaged Kate, that choice seemed the clear one she would take.  As to the Mark confrontation, definitely think she's given his too much space in her head for 20 years and it's great she can finally let that go.  Not sure actually going to see him was needed to accomplish that, but let's put that to bed.  Oh, and I guess the implication is that that relationship/the abortion caused her morbid obesity, which...meh.

- I actually think both Madison and Kevin are in a tough place and both sort of caught in a cycle of reacting, then having doubts, then overreacting, then trying to course correct...it's messy.  

- Thank god Laurel still isn't alive.  Not sure the show needed to introduce this element--and now next week we're getting a "VERY SPECIAL EPISODE THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING"--but, again, hopefully that was a quick arc.

- And, yes, Beth is a saint.  I hope Miguel and Toby tell her that often on their text chain.

 

 

[cardigirl]

I really did not like Kate's storyline here. Kate is impulsive, and Toby has the patience of a saint sometimes, but in this case, I didn't see him "making it all about him" when he wondered why she had not been forthcoming with this story before now, considering how they had lost one baby and had tried so hard for baby Jack. Anyone would have wondered, ANYONE, especially with their history of her wanting him to be honest and open with her, and if the tables had been turned and Toby had revealed some long ago hidden trauma, and Kate said "I don't understand why you haven't shared that before now, given what we've been dealing with," I think there would have been more understanding about the reaction.

And then to admit she googled her ex and found out where he was and wanted to go confront him, well.  I admire Toby immensely. She cray cray. 

As for the story with Kevin and Madison, I think I'm the only one rooting for them to work out. The show gives us little moments of cuteness, like when she admitted to being an Outlander fan, and he said he wore socks to the beach, but then they give us this twist.  Classic "will they, won't they" to heighten the tension I guess. And probably something will happen to Madison while Kevin is in Toronto, but I loved that he called Randall for advice because he remembered what Randall warned him about 20 some years ago, and I hope he can figure it out.  

The Pearson children all want the marriage they saw Jack and Rebecca have. Randall seems to have achieved it, and Kate too, for the time being, if her silliness doesn't blow it up, but Kevin, Kevin is still trying to figure it out, and I think he might have that chance with Madison if he learns from his past. This show loves melodrama though, so maybe they are figuring out a way to get Kevin back with Sophie (ugh) and twu luv from high school. 😉 

 

[Scarlett45]

I wonder if anyone else had this thought- I thought the flashback scene between Randall and Kevin discussing Kevin's move to LA and leaving Sophie at school, and then Kevin's looking at the photo of he and Madison on his phone (which was a pretty cute photo) was supposed to highlight that 20yrs ago, Kevin chose work over his relationship and lost that relationship; and now he has the opportunity to make a different choice?

I dont quite agree with this (but I think this is what the writers want us to see), because Kevin didn't lose Sophie because he made the choice to go to LA and purse acting- he lost Sophie because he cheated on her (we were explicitly told that he cheated and that's why she left). Also unlike 20yrs ago, now he has a lucrative career and lots of income potential with TWO babies on the way. Working is a good thing!

[ams1001]

11 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

I resent the writers infringing on the unity of this show's superb first season by doing this rewrite of the story of Randall's birth mom. Yes they sort of let William off the hook with the line about him telling Randall what he "believed" to be true but it still doesn't hold together well. And I think it will get worse as they delve further into Laurel's story.

Saw this comment on the TVLine recap:
In the pilot episode, Randall told Beth he had hired a PI to find his parents. He initially said he did not want to go to Philadelphia to confront his father because “she was a crack addict that died during childbirth and he was the guy who left me at the fire station because he probably couldn’t think of something more cliche”. Sooo, who told the PI that information, BEFORE William as well confirmed later that Laurel had died?

Hmm. (At the very least, if Laurel was indeed arrested at some point after Randall was born, wouldn't the PI have found that info?)

9 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I live in San Diego.  I do not recognize that generic-looking ghetto guitar shop.  I'll bet they didn't come down here but filmed it in LA, after doctoring up some bodega or something to make it look like a guitar shop.

I thought it was a convenience store (I was not paying attention to the sign over the door or posters in the windows).

6 hours ago, Christina said:

Like with A Million Little Things and Good Girls, I've lost all interest in this show.

I'm sticking with this in part because I know there is an end point in the not-too-distant future (assuming they stick with their 6-year plan and don't extend it). A Million Little things?...I dunno why I'm still watching that. (I've seen a few episodes of Good Girls but never got into it.)

2 hours ago, geauxaway said:

Uh?  What is her job again?  Party planner?

I was wondering that myself last night. Was that her job? Or did she just volunteer to do it for Kate's wedding? If it actually is her job I imagine she doesn't have a lot of gigs these days.

[txhorns79]

51 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

 

Hmm. (At the very least, if Laurel was indeed arrested at some point after Randall was born, wouldn't the PI have found that info?)

The reality is that presuming she was living in New Orleans under her own name and Social Security #, there should have been a pretty long paper trail to show she was alive.  It seems unlikely that a PI who could track down William would have missed Laurel.  

 

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

 

- And, yes, Beth is a saint.  I hope Miguel and Toby tell her that often on their text chain.

Can you imagine the insanity of that text chain at this point?  

Beth: OMG guys, you know that video of Randall that went viral?  Some man from New Orleans responded saying he knew Randall's birth mom.

Miguel/Toby:  We thought she died from an OD after childbirth?

Beth: No!  The death story has been aborted.  (Sorry Tobes, too soon?)  Turns out she didn't die, and was living with this guy down in New Orleans for decades!

Miguel/Toby: WTF?!?!

Beth: Yes!  She apparently did not die until 2015 from breast cancer!  Randall and I are catching the next flight out there to hear stories that will likely change everything!  

Miguel/Toby: Don't your kids have school and you have some kind of job, maybe still teaching dance? Also, Covid?

Beth: Uh, Randall is experiencing a life changing event for the eighth or ninth time this year.  We don't have any time for logistics.   

 

[Blakeston]

41 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Saw this comment on the TVLine recap:
In the pilot episode, Randall told Beth he had hired a PI to find his parents. He initially said he did not want to go to Philadelphia to confront his father because “she was a crack addict that died during childbirth and he was the guy who left me at the fire station because he probably couldn’t think of something more cliche”. Sooo, who told the PI that information, BEFORE William as well confirmed later that Laurel had died?

Hmm. (At the very least, if Laurel was indeed arrested at some point after Randall was born, wouldn't the PI have found that info?)

I think the only possible explanation is that the PI was a crack addict himself.

[3 is enough]

I found Kate's trip to San Diego to be over the top.  Looking for Marc on social media? Sure.  But going down there to confront him?  No.  But Kate is a Pearson after all, so it really isn't shocking.

I can handle Randall wanting to find out more about his birth mother, but dropping everything to go to New Orleans during a pandemic?  Just no.  If the show had decided to ignore the pandemic as others have I could understand, but they did not.  I just hope he gets his answers and moves on.  No long lost half siblings, please.

Kevin and Madison- they have a lot to work out.  I don't see it lasting forever but hopefully they will be good co-parents to their children.

As far as Kevin going to Vancouver- you can still cross the border with a valid reason, and if you are a dual citizen you can cross.  My son was in grad school in Canada.  He graduated just before the pandemic hit, and got a job in the US.  He had to go back to empty his apartment in June before his lease ended.  He had to provide contact info, and they did call to make sure he was quarantining, but he had no issues.  A little over two weeks later he crossed back with all of his belongings with no issues and the border agents just said "welcome home".

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by 3 is enough

[ams1001]

4 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I found Kate's trip to San Diego to be over the top.  Looking for Marc on social media? Sure.  But going down there to confront him?  No.  But Kate is a Pearson after all, so it really isn't shocking.

And of course he's such a loser, he's still on MySpace.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I wonder if anyone else had this thought- I thought the flashback scene between Randall and Kevin discussing Kevin's move to LA and leaving Sophie at school, and then Kevin's looking at the photo of he and Madison on his phone (which was a pretty cute photo) was supposed to highlight that 20yrs ago, Kevin chose work over his relationship and lost that relationship; and now he has the opportunity to make a different choice?

I dont quite agree with this (but I think this is what the writers want us to see), because Kevin didn't lose Sophie because he made the choice to go to LA and purse acting- he lost Sophie because he cheated on her (we were explicitly told that he cheated and that's why she left). Also unlike 20yrs ago, now he has a lucrative career and lots of income potential with TWO babies on the way. Working is a good thing!

I had the same thought.  And that is also why Kevin picked up the phone to call Randall.  Randall was right in 1999, and Kevin wants to get advice from him here.  I don't know why anyone would ask a man who unilaterally decides the future of his family to the point that Beth was ready to walk out a year ago about this issue though.  Beth is the one Kevin should be talking to in this situation.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Ohiopirate02

[Cathy Santoni]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

You guys are echoing my sentiments. I thought Madison was being a little unfair to Kevin- he’s always been an actor, and said career will allow him to provide the babies a very nice life. She seems to have fallen for him during quarantine and wants to be with him romantically.....so what’s the problem?? People travel for work all the time (in non pandemic times). Madison can keep her career, they can have a nanny AND Kevin can travel when he needs to. It’s not “Madison’s way or no way”.

Madison is being ridiculous! Quite honestly, I don’t see the problem with her and the babies tagging along on movie shoots for a few weeks a year, especially before they’re school age. It’s not like the transition would be that difficult with Kevin’s millions and a consistent nanny to bring along. Dare I say, it sounds kind of fun. Does Madison have a job because she doesn’t seem to be working or be passionate about any kind of career (which is fine), so again — I don’t see the issue. Why does Kevin being all-in have to mean giving up his career (or giving up traveling for his career which, in this case, is basically the same thing) when they can easily all be together when he has to travel? It’s not like he’s gone months at a time and they can’t come. I don’t under why she’s being so unreasonable and unwilling to compromise at all.

I actually understood why Kate felt she needed to see Marc. As she said, his abuse and the resulting trauma stole years from her life. It may not be the kind of closure everyone needs, but I didn’t think it was completely out of line. Who was driving her home from the abortion clinic?

TV show pet peeve — when people don’t fully explain something, which then causes confusion and misconceptions instead of just taking a few more words to give a little more information... Like when Randall told Kevin abruptly — “I have to make an important phone call now,” when Kevin had just reached out and been vulnerable in sharing several kind sentiments with him. Randall doesn’t have to explain everything, but just say, “That means a lot, brother. I really appreciate you calling” or something before the abrupt “I need to go” leaving Kevin probably feeling that Randall had to make a call for work or something.

I’m glad Laurel already passed away. Randall can go learn about her and we can finally close this chapter on Randall’s birth parents. I don’t need to see him develop a relationship with her over an entire season.

I love Beth. That is all.

[Tango64]

Kate's confrontation with Marc felt so unrealistic. It played more like her fantasy of what would happen: She just happens to catch him standing alone outside and when she says who she is, he reacted as if he'd seen her last Tuesday. She makes her Pearson speech and he accepts it, then she leaves feeling satisfied. 

And this was critical: He did not respond to her size. I was waiting, cringing almost, to see what he would say. Because let's be honest, if a woman Kate's size walked up to you on the street, you'd notice and you might be taken aback even if you manage to not show it and to act like a polite human being. I was waiting for Marc to show some sign of shock at her size and then either manage to control it or be like the old Marc and say something hurtful. But there was nothing from him to indicate any suprise or concern that the Kate he remembered is now that big.

It's weird how the show chose to have a character whose size is obviously a big part of her life and her issues, but most often portrays her as if no one notices and she has no daily difficulties.

Madison's complete disdain for a rich, jetsetting lifestyle, travelling the world first class with nannies, also did not ring true. I think most people her age would jump at that opportunity, even if later on they might realize it's not all it's cracked up to be. Hell, I'm pretty old and wise but I'd still be tempted to give that lifestyle a try.

[Blakeston]

The more I think about it, the more grossed out I am by the message the writers sent with Kate's story.

"If you have an abusive ex, you should track him down and confront him when he isn't expecting it, and let him know how much power he had over you for years, and blame your poor life choices on him. You can cap it off by telling him how awesome your life is now, and he'll just stand there, slack-jawed, as it dawns on him that you're a strong, independent woman who's truly over him, as evidenced by you spending four hours in your car just to let him know you're over him."

[txhorns79]

Quote

Madison is being ridiculous! Quite honestly, I don’t see the problem with her and the babies tagging along on movie shoots for a few weeks a year, especially before they’re school age. It’s not like the transition would be that difficult with Kevin’s millions and a consistent nanny to bring along. Dare I say, it sounds kind of fun.

Having dragged babies on vacation for a week or so, I can say it is not fun.  It interferes with their routine, everyone has to adjust to new surroundings and depending on the kid, it can be a huge pain.  I get that Madison's experience would be somewhat different in that she would have dedicated help and lots of money, but I did see her point.  It also surprised me that neither she, nor Kevin had ever thought to discuss the topic until the potential nanny brought it up. 

[debraran]

Just now, Blakeston said:

The more I think about it, the more grossed out I am by the message the writers sent with Kate's story.

"If you have an abusive ex, you should track him down and confront him when he isn't expecting it, and let him know how much power he had over you for years, and blame your poor life choices on him. You can cap it off by telling him how awesome your life is now, and he'll just stand there, slack-jawed, as it dawns on him that you're a strong, independent woman who's truly over him, as evidenced by you spending four hours in your car just to let him know you're over him."

True, during covid, she leaves and tells him that although a blip on the radar for him, she suffered for over 2 decades and it's mostly his fault she ate too much (and her dad's) and although she never got any help, decided at 40 she would. I hate Mark but I'd be "what??".

[Trillian]

2 hours ago, MissL said:

Right?! For goodness sake it’s my grandpa’s name and every time they say it I pause...and it’s the name of a winery in Napa! 

Loved my grandpa Bill. Just had to say it cuz he was the absolute best. 😊

Oh my God!  You must be related to Randall! Obviously a long-lost niece. 

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Yeah and what if the guy had changed and gone to therapy for his issues , etc ? To show up randomly at his job and start telling him off and risking his job is just not cool . It turns out he most likely was still the same person , but what if he wasn’t ? 

She approached him quietly at first. I imagine if he'd come across as having changed at all, her responses would've changed accordingly. Not saying I don't think this was a pretty fanciful, Lifetime Movie scenario as it played out, but she didn't start telling him off immediately (nor in front of his boss).

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I wonder if anyone else had this thought- I thought the flashback scene between Randall and Kevin discussing Kevin's move to LA and leaving Sophie at school, and then Kevin's looking at the photo of he and Madison on his phone (which was a pretty cute photo) was supposed to highlight that 20yrs ago, Kevin chose work over his relationship and lost that relationship; and now he has the opportunity to make a different choice?

I dont quite agree with this (but I think this is what the writers want us to see), because Kevin didn't lose Sophie because he made the choice to go to LA and purse acting- he lost Sophie because he cheated on her (we were explicitly told that he cheated and that's why she left). Also unlike 20yrs ago, now he has a lucrative career and lots of income potential with TWO babies on the way. Working is a good thing!

I had exactly this thought.

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

The more I think about it, the more grossed out I am by the message the writers sent with Kate's story.

"If you have an abusive ex, you should track him down and confront him when he isn't expecting it, and let him know how much power he had over you for years, and blame your poor life choices on him. You can cap it off by telling him how awesome your life is now, and he'll just stand there, slack-jawed, as it dawns on him that you're a strong, independent woman who's truly over him, as evidenced by you spending four hours in your car just to let him know you're over him."

The show could have accomplished the same thing with Kate meeting up with Madison and venting.  Kate needed to speak those words out loud, but it did not have to be to Mark.  Like the song says, that's what friends are for.  

[Cathy Santoni]

11 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Having dragged babies on vacation for a week or so, I can say it is not fun.  It interferes with their routine, everyone has to adjust to new surroundings and depending on the kid, it can be a huge pain.  I get that Madison's experience would be somewhat different in that she would have dedicated help and lots of money, but I did see her point.  It also surprised me that neither she, nor Kevin had ever thought to discuss the topic until the potential nanny brought it up. 

It’s very true. Having 3 kids myself, I can attest to the absolute pain it can be to bring babies/toddlers on trip and no amount of money can force them to cooperatively adjust their schedules or moods. 🙂 I just think when you have every advantage at your fingertips, it’s not too much for Kevin to ask that his career remains in tact, especially when, let’s be honest, movie actors don’t exactly work all year long like the rest of us peasants. I’ve never been very adventurous with my babies, but if I had a private jet, first class accommodations, a live in nanny, and every other luxury available, even I would probably be happy to travel with the kids and live a jet setting life for a few weeks a year. Agree that it’s very strange they haven’t discussed these basic lifestyle preferences though. They haven’t thought through much (obviously) and have a lot to work out.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, Cathy Santoni said:

Who was driving her home from the abortion clinic?

I just assumed it was either a cab or maybe the clinic had some kind of transportation service.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I just assumed it was either a cab or maybe the clinic had some kind of transportation service.

 

I know that in some places volunteers will help with transportation.  They will also help shield the women from protesters as they walk in and out of the facility.  

[tennisgurl]

I feel like Madison might not be so down for Kevin quitting acting when she realizes that then they wont be getting those nice big Hollywood paychecks either. Twins aint cheap! 

So will Randall and Beth talk to the girls about their long lost bio grandma being secretly alive for longer than they thought but is now dead? Especially when Randall goes off on his latest journey of self discovery to find out about her? How much craziness are those poor kids going to have to deal with between their dads many midlife crisis? I know Randall is all about the therapy now, but I think its the girls who should talk to someone next. 

[Scarlett45]

9 hours ago, circumvent said:

I haven't watched yet but it seems that the conflict is that Madison wants Kevin to be around for when the babies come? I can understand that but this shows how much unaware of how most people live TV writers are. 

No, the conflict was that Kevin assumed Madison, the babies and the staff would travel with him when he had to film on location. Madison assumed they would lead a "typical" life and Kevin's travel after the babies came would be minimal.

It was not about him making the birth but about their lifestyle choices after the twins were born. Madison insinuated that Kevin's assumption that he would keep his acting schedule "as is" means he wasnt committed to parenting and/or being with her.

[Luckylyn]

I thought Madison’s main concern was Kevin’s assumption that she and the twins would be traveling all over with him.   It didn’t seem to occur to him that she might not want to do that.   It’s clear they haven’t had a conversation about how their family will work regarding working and family time.  They are making assumptions about each other based on what they want and not really planning ahead realistically.  I feel that they are both very careful with each other and not communicating as clearly as they could.   Also what is Madison’s job?  Is she planning to be a stay at home Mom or continue the career she already has?  I notice neither he nor her brought it up.  His career is treated as the priority and the show hasn’t given any thought to Madison’s personal ambitions.    Maybe we’re supposed to assume this was discussed off screen and that’s why Kevin assumes Madison would be free to travel with him all the time.  Even is she wants to be a stay at home Mom that doesn’t mean she’ll want a life where she and her kids are traveling a lot.  Some people enjoy a life on the road while others don’t.   They need to stop walking on eggshells with each other and be more specific about what they want.

I have seen so many Lifetime movies and so I am fully expecting Kate’s ex to start stalking her.  He could find her as easily as she found him.  But I’m hoping it doesn’t go there.  I found the Marc arc anti climactic.  

I find I am bored with Randall this week.  
 

I feel like the show’s repetitive.

[geauxaway]

The thing with Madison and Kevin is that she wasn’t happy when the lady stopped them on their walk to ask for a selfie with Kevin and she also (I think) was worried about his shirtless love scenes.  That’s now 3 red flags she has with regards to his career.  She is marrying the wrong person.  And he shouldn’t have to  constantly reassure her and walk on eggshells around her.  

[ECM1231]

Did the makeup department add some prosthetics to 18 year-old Kate's face?  I don't recall her having double chins in earlier episodes and her face just looked much fuller, even around the eyes. 

[Katy M]

17 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Also, was he never in the room when a doctor asked if she'd been pregnant before (before the miscarriage) as part of her medical history? If so, did she lie to the doctor and say she'd never been pregnant? Like he said, they talked about pregnancy a lot over the course of the two years they tried to conceive; it IS strange that she never said anything.

Not really because the writers, and therefore Kate, probably didn't know about the abortion back then.

[ams1001]

 

18 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Also, was he never in the room when a doctor asked if she'd been pregnant before (before the miscarriage) as part of her medical history? If so, did she lie to the doctor and say she'd never been pregnant? Like he said, they talked about pregnancy a lot over the course of the two years they tried to conceive; it IS strange that she never said anything.

Actually, it's quite possible the doctor would have asked her such questions without him in the room. He might not have gone to every appointment (or been in the exam room the whole time), and that information would be protected under HIPAA so they wouldn't be allowed to share that without her permission, even if it is her husband. And any good doctor should know that she might not want to share something like that, even if she is now trying to have a baby with the guy. (And odds are a previous uncomplicated abortion (which hers seemed to be) wasn't going to significantly affect her chances of getting pregnant this time around so in the grand scheme it probably wouldn't be relevant to tell him.)

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Not really because the writers, and therefore Kate, probably didn't know about the abortion back then.

But also probably this.

(I feel like if that was part of the plan from the beginning they would up the drama by having us see her discuss it with the doctor while she's keeping it from Toby.)

[debraran]

1 hour ago, ECM1231 said:

Did the makeup department add some prosthetics to 18 year-old Kate's face?  I don't recall her having double chins in earlier episodes and her face just looked much fuller, even around the eyes. 

That was different and it kept distracting me. I realize they have to have Kate gain 100lbs in a short time but that was just weird and not natural looking. Someone said her instagram had photos of "fat suit" for lack of a better word they had last year.

Edited January 6, 2021 by debraran

[madmax]

15 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Only Kevin took steps and apologized for what he'd said. Randall didn't apologize for his part and blew Kevin off because he needed to make a "very important" call right that second. Because his brother sounding distressed and asking for advice is obviously not important enough to give him another 10-15 minutes of his time.

This really pissed me off.  Kevin wasn't the only one wrong and he has tried a couple of times to talk to Randall.  Randall was a total dick.  It's not like he had to make that call at that very moment.

8 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Kate keeping the pregnancy and abortion to herself for so long feels like a retcon even if it was planned from the beginning, but the set-up was so weird. Toby was right - this should have come up somewhere along all the years they've been together now.

It most definitely should have come up.  So I'm sure they retconned it.

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had a lot of feelings about Kate's abortion/Marc storyline. I think that when you are in a long term committed relationship (whether or not that involves marriage), you should talk about the important things that happened in your life because of course your partner will want to know about the things that shaped you. But I don't think you are ever obligated to tell someone that you had an abortion. That happened DECADES before Kate met Toby and it's not relevant to anything in their relationship. I think it was more important that she tell him that she'd been in an abusive relationship with a prize A jackass because that has had more of an impact on her life than the abortion did. But at the same time, I understand that it can be really difficult to discuss something that's really painful like an abusive relationship because it brings back a lot of terrible memories.

Not relevant, except they were trying to get pregnant.  Even though it seemed to be a relatively straight forward abortion with no complications, how would Kate know that it might have affected something?

4 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

I can handle Randall wanting to find out more about his birth mother, but dropping everything to go to New Orleans during a pandemic?  Just no.  If the show had decided to ignore the pandemic as others have I could understand, but they did not.

This is why I think most shows should not focus on the pandemic.  Two instances of spontaneous travel in this show that really shouldn't be happening during this pandemic.  Makes the writers look bad.

 

I did a lot of eye-rolling in this episode.  The aforementioned travel, most of Saint Randall's scenes, Madison not understanding what Kevin's career actually entailed.  What really bothered me was Randall walking away from the people that wanted to talk to him - Beth in the hall before his run, Kevin's phone call.  Just take five minutes and not be a jerk.  I love Sterling K. Brown, but I'm really not liking Randall.

Regarding Kate's abortion, she would not have been allowed to do that without somebody with her.  PA law at that time was pretty stringent on that.  I know.