S07.E05: Monumental Challenge

[Adgirl]

The Boot Monument commemorates the battle at Saratoga not Benedict Arnold. 

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Judging by the broken shutters on Kathryn's family home in S1, I don't believe she is a product of unearned wealth. I think she is an ignorant fool, but I don't know if Kathryn Dennis is racist. To me the little monkey meant monkey business. It wasn't the best choice and I think it was completely blown out of proportion for the narrative, which even that didn't seem to phase her.

The land and privilege Kathryn's family enjoys also counts as unearned wealth.  Folks never think anyone is a racist until there's a cross burning. Even when Black folks point it out, we are debated as if we don't know it when we hear/see it. 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Adgirl
because punctuation is a thing

[Neurochick]

12 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

When my husband and I went to the other Charleston—Charleston, WV—we sought out the statue at the capitol of a famous Confederate general, as well as African Zion Baptist Church, the church of one of the earliest black leaders in the US.  If either of them had been taken away, I would be less educated.  And I believe in education.

That is a good point.

But, I don't think there are statues of Adolf Hitler in Germany and I don't think people fly the Nazi flag in front of their home.  

History:  The South lost the Civil War.  The Union Jack isn't flown on top the Capitol, and the Confederate flag shouldn't be flown anywhere.  However, it should be in a museum, along with the Confederate statues.  

ETA:  I have an issue with things being called "revisionist history."  A lot of history depends on who is writing it.   Some people's stories are never told, so telling them shouldn't be called revisionist at all.  

Edited December 4, 2020 by Neurochick

[Sun-Bun]

I almost wondered midway through this episode why Craig didn’t include this in his pre-show narration: “And now for a ‘Very Special Episode’ of Southern Charm...” 

Ugh...I get that this show is trying desperately to seem “woke” and finally with it politically, but it felt really disjointed and desperate having a newer cast member like Leva taking over a long main scene of the show via hanging out with the likes of Danni, Gwenn’s Madison, and a couple of other super attractive young black women we’ve never before met, just to discuss/shame Kathryn’s lack of awareness for her ancestors and Charleston’s tougher history/racial tensions.

This show is REALLY grasping for political relevance when none of the main cast members even bothered to comment upon or offer up a talking head to discuss such things. Kathryn couldn’t even be bothered to say a thing or show up for filming, so I had no problem whatsoever with those women bashing her obvious racial insensitivity/white privilege onscreen, especially when she so proudly tosses around that extra Calhoun title.

Also, I’m firmly Team Madison; Austen is such a manbaby that it doesn’t surprise me in the least that he caught the Rona first. I’d heard via a few gossip pages that half the cast/crew had an outbreak, so this wasn’t news to me. 
Charleston was one of the hardest pandemic-stricken cities in the US this past summer(didn’t they have the 2nd or 3rd worst outbreak in the country thanks to the clueless tourists/beach crowds?), so watching Craig flippantly blow off its growing intensity at that point is sobering yet not surprising, especially if you saw how raging drunk/messed up he and Austen would get together on their Instagram Live’s they often filmed last summer. I’m sure he caught the RoRo from Austen, or vise-versa.
 

I didn’t notice ANY masks this episode, but that’s par for the course as far as the more Southern cities go, unfortunately. 

Doormat Danni getting all choked up about Kathryn being chummier with Leva was creepy and pathetic as Hell. Anyone with half a brain knows that Kathryn is NO ONE’s girlfriend and she was obviously only playing up to Leva because she’s a fellow main cast member, that’s it. She never has given two shits about Danni, yet that poor girl has always desperately clung to her for whatever reason. Now I’m legit starting to wonder if Danni has an unrequited longtime crush on Kathryn.

Speaking of Kathryn, can we please be spared yet more footage of her pathetically attempting to unpack/build furniture in her umpteenth new residence? That gal has lived in a new residence almost every single season of this show. All I can think about is that between her and the nearly as nomadic Thomas, those poor children of hers have never had a truly stable, steady home to enjoy over the years.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Sun-Bun

[RedDelicious]

20 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

ETA:  I have an issue with things being called "revisionist history."  A lot of history depends on who is writing it.   Some people's stories are never told, so telling them shouldn't be called revisionist at all.  

I think you might be referring to what I said, and I think I may have used the term incorrectly. I do want to continue to learn about history as a matter of fact and I don't want to learn it through someone else's present day lens or interpretation.

We skirted this when we were discussing plantation weddings in another thread. I used the example that I don't think plantation weddings should be canceled because if these places were left to rot and disappear, it takes away the opportunity to learn about what happened there and their place in American history. They should be preserved as museums and very often times museums are used as event venues in order to subsidize maintenance and repairs.

I think if these places are going to be used as venues for celebration, it should be strongly encouraged, if not a requirement, that patrons learn about the history of the location in order to respect the people and the purpose before them. If these places were just redeveloped into something else, like houses or a shopping center, as if it never existed, then we don't learn anything. This is a tough one - I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, and I know there were people who didn't agree with my thoughts. I think it is a great learning opportunity to be able to see it and experience it as opposed to reading about it on a plaque after everything is gone. 

I absolutely agree that some people's stories are never told, and we need to hear them to completely comprehend.

[TexasGal]

2 hours ago, Sun-Bun said:

I almost wondered midway through this episode why Craig didn’t include this in his pre-show narration: “And now for a ‘Very Special Episode’ of Southern Charm...” 

Ugh...I get that this show is trying desperately to seem “woke” and finally with it politically, but it felt really disjointed and desperate having a newer cast member like Leva taking over a long main scene of the show via hanging out with the likes of Danni, Gwenn’s Madison, and a couple of other super attractive young black women we’ve never before met, just to discuss/shame Kathryn’s lack of awareness for her ancestors and Charleston’s tougher history/racial tensions.
 

We'll never know, of course, but I wonder how much of this would have been featured if there was not the backdrop of Kathryn's monkey emoji debacle.  It set up the perfect compare and contrast type narrative for a season that was surely lacking in content due to Covid restrictions.  It also gave us the info that Gwynn's has severed ties with her.

Austen's sister was everything.  And I agree with whoever posted above that seeing Madison with her family endeared me to her in a way I've never felt before.  Plus, I want some of that corn.

[aghst]

26 minutes ago, Sun-Bun said:

I almost wondered midway through this episode why Craig didn’t include this in his pre-show narration: “And now for a ‘Very Special Episode’ of Southern Charm...” 

Ugh...I get that this show is trying desperately to seem “woke” and finally with it politically, but it felt really disjointed and desperate having a newer cast member like Leva taking over a long main scene of the show via hanging out with the likes of Danni, Gwenn’s Madison, and a couple of other super attractive young black women we’ve never before met, just to discuss/shame Kathryn’s lack of awareness for her ancestors and Charleston’s tougher history/racial tensions.
 

If they didn’t at least show the protests or that a Calhoun statue was taken down we’d be criticizing the show for trying to sanitize or gloss over the unpleasant history, making it all about drinking and parties but avoiding what happened over the summer, especially as it involved a main cast member.

Now the people who did take part on the discussions on camera didn’t criticize the cast members who did not.  Or maybe they did but they were edited out.

The protests were huge in June.  Maybe not as big in Southern cities though.  We don’t necessarily expect people like Shep or Craig or Kathryn to take part in them but you’d think they’d have an opinion since that video was played over and over in June.

In previous seasons the only time they got topical was when they visited some places which were involved in the slave trade, noting that there were several such places in Charleston set up as historical monuments.

Can’t recall if they fully addressed Thomas’ legal troubles last season or if they even bothered to explain why he was off the show.

So they do tip toe around controversy in general but if they completely ignored the events of this summer, i think we’d be excoriating them even more.

 

 

[Neurochick]

I think the elephant in the room regarding this show has been the fact that many of these young-ish people are benefitting indirectly from slavery.  Many of them might deny that fact, which I don't get; I have no problems saying that yes, in certain areas I do have privilege. 

I wondered when they would address those things like, "how did your family make its money?  Where did your family get all their land?  Now, no one is responsible for what their ancestors did, but to deny just makes that person look worse.   To accept it doesn't make you a bad person, it means you're just accepting what is.

[divsc]

4 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

It has nothing to do with governors and leadership and everything to do with personal responsibility. New York was a massive, massive hot zone regardless of lockdowns and mandates. I saw it firsthand. I was there and I've worked in healthcare my entire career. The people on the show clearly didn't give a shit. Not even the self-righteous lunch ladies wore masks.

Well I just mean that in other states during the time when this filming happened, places like gyms were not even allowed to re-open and bars could only be re-opened if they were outdoors and served food, etc. But in South Carolina, there were no mask ordinances in the state or in many cities. And any restrictions on things like restaurants occupancy limits were actually lifted very early here. Whether people in any states actually followed those kind of mandates is another story. But they didn't even exist in South Carolina. They did not use CDC guidance - they used info from the SC Restaurant and Lodging Association. Restaurants are back to 100% capacity here, including indoor dining. 

I think Charleston went this other extreme because it is a such a tourist hotspot where the economy relies so heavily on the hospitality industry and getting in visitors from other states. We basically have a big "We're Open!" campaign going on. So yes, it definitely is personal responsibility, but acting like covid is not even a thing (or even denying it altogether) is very much a norm in Charleston, at least in my experience. Not everyone of course, but how they are acting on the show very accurately depicts what I'm seeing on a regular basis here.

Edited December 4, 2020 by divsc

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, divsc said:

Well I just mean that in other states during the time when this filming happened, places like gyms were not even allowed to re-open and bars could only be re-opened if they were outdoors and served food, etc. But in South Carolina, there were no mask ordinances in the state or in many cities. And any restrictions on things like restaurants occupancy limits were actually lifted very early here. Whether people in any states actually followed those kind of mandates is another story. But they didn't even exist in South Carolina. They did not use CDC guidance - they used info from the SC Restaurant and Lodging Association. Restaurants are back to 100% capacity here, including indoor dining. 

I think Charleston went this other extreme because it is a such a tourist hotspot where the economy relies so heavily on the hospitality industry and getting in visitors from other states. We basically have a big "We're Open!" campaign going on. So yes, it definitely is personal responsibility, but acting like covid is not even a thing (or even denying it altogether) is very much a norm in Charleston, at least in my experience. Not everyone of course, but how they are acting on the show very accurately depicts what I'm seeing on a regular basis here.

Very similar situation where I live. Heavy tourist season, summer went on like things were normal.  I don’t remember when we went back to indoor dining because I haven’t set foot in a restaurant in months and months. The crazy thing is, we were still under 10,000 cases statewide as of the end of October and we doubled that in one months time because of people getting tested before Thanksgiving. However our death rates and ICU volumes are somewhat normal for this time of year.

I just hate the way the cast members are being so indifferent on the show. It makes my blood boil because I have been responsible to a fault and these assholes are laughing about it. It’s infuriating. I don’t think I’ve ever disliked a cast collectively as much as these knuckleheads, and that goes for all of them. 

That being said, I’m glad they showed Patricia and Michael being responsible and I love that Michael packed all the supplies for her. 

I wish there had been more of Whitney yelling at people.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I think it is very difficult to discuss things like monuments to Confederate heroes without getting into our own personal politics. I am going to try not to. But the reality is that MANY of the monuments that were built post Civil War weren't built in the immediate aftermath of the war but well into the late 19th century and early 20th centuries as a way of reasserting white authority.  The way we commemorate history reflects how we understand history.  

It appears there have been a number of iterations of the Calhoun statue, with the final statue and pedestal created in 1896, many decades after his death.  So now it looks like the last iteration is the removal of the statue - that's fine, that's also part of history.  People should learn about John C. Calhoun - he's actually a pretty important person in early federalist history.  But that learning can take place in history books and in museums, and it can be a "warts and all" understanding of who he is and what he promoted. It doesn't need to be a lionizing of him.

Anyway, I was quite happy to hear the voices of Leva, Madison, Danni and two Black women (whose names I wish I knew!) about how they view that statue and how they view Charleston's history. Their perspectives are valid, and I think it is healthy that they are speaking their mind about that part of the city's history. The show has spent years highlighting how white Charleston lives - I'm good with hearing from Black Charlestonians, too. 

[Rlb8031]

9 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

It’s curious to me that over half of the cast did not give so much as a talking head regarding their opinion on a matter that dominated the episode.

There was an article that I saw recently which quoted both Shep and Craig stating that they were uncomfortable making their opinions known. Shep cited a conversation he had with Leva after the protests when her windows were broken where he was critical of the protestors and she responded that the windows could be replaced. He felt he was being taken to task when his intention was only to be supportive. 

I think that many of the cast either 1) don't care about these issues (Craig, Kathyryn, John) or 2) know that there is a strong possibility they could end up putting their foot in their mouths (Patricia, Shep, Whitney, Austin) and they don't say anything at all. 

Also, based on clips, there is a whole episode on the protests and the aftermath which is coming up. I think its a reach to say Bravo is sugarcoating or presenting a limited view.

[biakbiak]

1 minute ago, Rlb8031 said:

Shep cited a conversation he had with Leva after the protests when her windows were broken where he was critical of the protestors and she responded that the windows could be replaced. He felt he was being taken to task when his intention was only to be supportive. 

 

That was Austin not Shep and he came across as someone who shoul do more listening and less talking.

[Rlb8031]

6 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

That was Austin not Shep and he came across as someone who shoul do more listening and less talking.

Yes, but the point was that the lack of talking heads may have been from self-censoring, and not Bravo either not encouraging or actively discouraging cast members with opposing views from airing them on the show.

[Emmeline]

We know Thomas and Shep’s families have been in Charleston for a long time.  I’d like to know more about that history.

Kathryn and Pringle have the notable southern families but no old money.

[heatherchandler]

19 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I object to this show’s intellectual dishonesty vis a vis the Calhoun statue.  Sure, show the meeting about whether to take it down if that is what is going on in Charleston at the time.  If the citizens get together and agree to move a statue to a museum, I could see the argument in favor of that, even though I think it should stay up, whether one agrees with the man or not.  Maybe especially if one disagrees with the man.

 

That lunch was appalling to me.  Everyone at the table was so self-righteous about Kathryn’s great-great-(however many greats) grandfather.  How do they know what their ancestors have done and what they have stood for?  Kathryn is no more responsible for people who said and did things before she was born than they are.  I learned this from the law:  judge the act, not the man.  

And I think it’s absurd to equate 170 year old stances with today’s.  If we go back 500 years, there was slavery on the Barbary Coast.  Thousands of years ago, the Jews were enslaved.  Why aren’t they talking about that?  It’s insulting and rather pointless to me to boil civil rights and slavery down to not just one episode of a reality show, but a few minutes of one.  

I just want to say that I agree with all of your posts.  

Who is the arbiter of truth? (Thanks Mark Zuckerberg)  I want to hear the information, and decide for myself.  I don't like removing history, or shutting down discussion.  Also, people are people - good and bad.  

The virtue signaling lunch appalled me too.  Leva is really trying my patience.  Madison from Gwynn's saw her chance to be in the spotlight, and she ran with it.  I thought she was friends with Kathryn.  If she knew what a HORRIBLE person she is, why does she choose now to go in on her?  And I hate Kathryn.  But that was bullshit.

 

 

[biakbiak]

19 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

The virtue signaling lunch appalled me too. 

Not everything is “virtue signaling” these conversations were common in June and it’s entirely possible that these are things they genuinely believe.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

27 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I just want to say that I agree with all of your posts.  

Who is the arbiter of truth? (Thanks Mark Zuckerberg)  I want to hear the information, and decide for myself.  I don't like removing history, or shutting down discussion.  Also, people are people - good and bad.  

The virtue signaling lunch appalled me too.  Leva is really trying my patience.  Madison from Gwynn's saw her chance to be in the spotlight, and she ran with it.  I thought she was friends with Kathryn.  If she knew what a HORRIBLE person she is, why does she choose now to go in on her?  And I hate Kathryn.  But that was bullshit.

 

 

So cast members having a discussion is... shutting down discussion?  I'm not sure I understand the logic there. 

As we see with this episode, removing a statue doesn't actual stop discussion - in fact, I would venture to guess that the events of this summer probably led to a lot more discussion about John C. Calhoun, his legacy, and Charleston's past than had existed in recent years.  Removing a statue from a public space doesn't actually stop discussion or erase history. 

FYI, with regard to the cast members who weren't there, I think I saw something recently that had Shep of all people taking Thomas Ravenel to task for something political (I will refrain from mentioning what because it's off topic), so I would not be surprised if Shep is more liberal politically than his aging frat boy persona would have led me to believe. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by eleanorofaquitaine

[chenoa333]

22 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Austen is a f’n douchebag nightmare.

Amen to that. 

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Who is the arbiter of truth? (Thanks Mark Zuckerberg)  I want to hear the information, and decide for myself.  I don't like removing history, or shutting down discussion.  Also, people are people - good and bad.  

Who is removing history; better yet, whose history are we talking about?

I think that this has been the elephant in the living room since the show began.  When you have a cast of white privileged Southerners, many of whom had ancestors who benefited directly from slavery; eventually race was going to come up.

Compare that with Southern Charm: New Orleans, a show with more black cast members.  I remember there was an episode where many of the men talked about being stopped by the police for....being black.  It was brought up, no history was removed, no discussion was shut down.

[aghst]

8 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

There was an article that I saw recently which quoted both Shep and Craig stating that they were uncomfortable making their opinions known. Shep cited a conversation he had with Leva after the protests when her windows were broken where he was critical of the protestors and she responded that the windows could be replaced. He felt he was being taken to task when his intention was only to be supportive. 

I think that many of the cast either 1) don't care about these issues (Craig, Kathyryn, John) or 2) know that there is a strong possibility they could end up putting their foot in their mouths (Patricia, Shep, Whitney, Austin) and they don't say anything at all. 

Also, based on clips, there is a whole episode on the protests and the aftermath which is coming up. I think its a reach to say Bravo is sugarcoating or presenting a limited view.

Probably just as well that someone like Craig and Austen not proffer opinions.  They don't seem to be that into anything other than having a good time.

But also, all of these members seem to know people around town who wouldn't be down with BLM, so they may not want to alienate them.

I don't think any of them would display something like the Confederate flag -- they're more polished than that.  But they may resent people from outside the state telling them they should remove the flag and other Civil War symbols.

[Neurochick]

8 hours ago, aghst said:

Probably just as well that someone like Craig and Austen not proffer opinions.  They don't seem to be that into anything other than having a good time.

But also, all of these members seem to know people around town who wouldn't be down with BLM, so they may not want to alienate them.

I don't think any of them would display something like the Confederate flag -- they're more polished than that.  But they may resent people from outside the state telling them they should remove the flag and other Civil War symbols.

They probably don't care because they don't have to care.  They don't have to worry about people calling the police on them for just existing.

[Babyfoot]

I think that Bravo is actually doing a better job of handling the monkey emoji text message debacle and racial unrest in SC than I had anticipated. The lunch conversation was interesting and relevant. It’s didn’t feel forced. I’d really like to see more of Levi’s friends, Venita and Meagan, much more so than of Danni. Her growing discomfort and unease on camera, her “friendship” with Kathryn, and her weakass talking heads, are just uncomfortable to watch. 

[goofygirl]

You know, with Shep's "Little Craig" cute dog, Danni's really cute dog and Patricia's  little "Peaches" cute dog; I'm seeing a real departure from these moron PEOPLE....  Maybe we need the "Cute Dogs of Southern Charm" iteration. I'm on that train!

[jaybird2]

19 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

So cast members having a discussion is... shutting down discussion?  I'm not sure I understand the logic there. 

As we see with this episode, removing a statue doesn't actual stop discussion - in fact, I would venture to guess that the events of this summer probably led to a lot more discussion about John C. Calhoun, his legacy, and Charleston's past than had existed in recent years.  Removing a statue from a public space doesn't actually stop discussion or erase history. 

FYI, with regard to the cast members who weren't there, I think I saw something recently that had Shep of all people taking Thomas Ravenel to task for something political (I will refrain from mentioning what because it's off topic), so I would not be surprised if Shep is more liberal politically than his aging frat boy persona would have led me to believe. 

shep is more progressive than would appear based on his instagram posts.

i was also very surprised that bravo didn't fire kathryn after that text.  after all 2 main cast members were fired from VPR.  The only reason for not firing her is that they think there would be no show without her.   I think that is also the reason started the rumor re cam's husband because she realized she might have gone too far.  Kathryn knew exactly what that monkey meant and that's why she used it, to send a message.  

[Kdawg82]

Is anyone going to comment on Shep's shaky hands? Jeezah! I had always assumed that's what would happen to him but it was jarring to see. I feel his girlfriend is like a live-in nurse with benefits or something.  She took his hand when he was shaking about to have breakfast? (With beer?) & it seemed as if it were a code between them to try signaling that his shakes are getting bad on camera.  He looks terrible too.

Other noticeable shakers:

Pringle & Pringle's sister

They're all seemingly getting too old for this sh**. 

I still want Austen gone. Annoying. His beer?  Annoying storyline.  

Leva- I'm not going to like her. Idk...she reminds me of everyone on Shah's. I've already seen that show. It's just now *that* in Charleston.  At least she turned that Persian Iranian daddy $ into a successful business unlike any Shahs seem to have done. Same storyline otherwise.  Escaping bad situations in Iran etc. 

Dani looking worse for the wear too. Yikes. 

Shocked & I mean SHOCKED they allowed Thomas to appear on camera! Wow. 

 

 

[ProudMary]

"I don't do politics."  -- The woman formerly known as "Senate Barbie."

[KnoxForPres]

15 hours ago, jaybird2 said:

shep is more progressive than would appear based on his instagram posts.

i was also very surprised that bravo didn't fire kathryn after that text.  after all 2 main cast members were fired from VPR.  The only reason for not firing her is that they think there would be no show without her.   I think that is also the reason started the rumor re cam's husband because she realized she might have gone too far.  Kathryn knew exactly what that monkey meant and that's why she used it, to send a message.  

I think you’re right but I  can’t stand Kathryn and wonder why Bravo thinks she’s so important. I’ve found her annoying the whole time she’s been on this show and don’t believe she brings any value to it. 

Danni becoming unhinged while talking to Leva was disturbing. Wtf is wrong with her?  Her alliance and allegiance  with Kathryn is one sided and ridiculous.  Her mannerisms, which I realize she likely has no control over, annoy the shit out of me. She’s like a constant weird “surprised” state of face and jolty. Fire her and Kathryn I say!

While Craig sounded 16 years old I agree if I had a gig on HSN and they told me I had to do it remotely from home I wouldn’t want to either. When I had access I watched hours of those goofy programs  like HSN and QVC (nothing bad happens and no chance of sad animal commercials) to go to sleep and I would want the on air good vibes with the hosts too. 

I’m just not buying Shep and his girl for some reason. I don’t see chemistry there and I feel like he got a girlfriend to offset that horrible video he posted where he mocked the homeless lady. Like he used his mailbox money to hire a PR agent who said “Shep!  Hey bud!  Get the most vanilla non-controversial person and get in a relationship!”  And even if he goes to the altar with her I stand by my thought- it doesn’t feel real to me. 

[pasdetrois]

I don't watch any more but was curious how Bravo would handle the racial situation. (I already knew how these idiots would handle COVID.)

Agree that Kathryn absolutely knew the nasty implications of using a monkey image - any monkey image - when communicating with a Black person.

While I agree with the sentiments expressed by the women around the table, it felt like showboating for the cameras. Especially Gwynn, who apparently saw the writing on the wall and began to frantically sever her ties to Kathryn.

Quote

Is anyone going to comment on Shep's shaky hands? Jeezah! I had always assumed that's what would happen to him but it was jarring to see. I feel his girlfriend is like a live-in nurse with benefits or something.

I noticed the severe shaking. I suspect Shep is a hard core alcoholic. He gets the shakes when he stops for production time. Agree that the girlfriend is fake.

Hungover Craig also looks like 90 miles of hard road. Craig is going to ruin those pretty boy looks real fast.

Leva is striking and articulate, but her stridency gets old. Clearly she's Bravo's very belated attempt to point the show away from its White entitled-ness.

Danni is so pathetic; it's uncomfortable to watch. It's as if all of her self-esteem is generated by her desperate attempts to become a main character on the show. She latched on as Kathryn's "friend," and now she's paying for it.

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by pasdetrois

[angelamh66]

Danni seems on the verge of some kind of breakdown. She’s so skittish. Very uncomfortable to watch. 

 

[Lassus]

On 12/3/2020 at 9:33 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

I have to disagree with Leva and Danni—I find nothing racist about the monkey emoji

I mean, It's like Sergey Brin and Larry Page curb-stomped AskJeeves and Infoseek for nothing.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Lassus

[Neurochick]

On 12/5/2020 at 10:41 PM, Kdawg82 said:

Leva- I'm not going to like her. Idk...she reminds me of everyone on Shah's. I've already seen that show. It's just now *that* in Charleston.  At least she turned that Persian Iranian daddy $ into a successful business unlike any Shahs seem to have done. Same storyline otherwise.  Escaping bad situations in Iran etc. 

Nice to finally see a WOC on this lily white show.  Yay. 😁

[TeeMo]

I think I have said this before but Austen and Madison barely seem to like each other as people most of the time so I am always befuddled by their constant on again/off again drama. Just end it and save yourselves the misery already. 

[Lizzing]

This show just makes me miss SC:NOLA.  

[Neurochick]

11 minutes ago, Lizzing said:

This show just makes me miss SC:NOLA.  

I'd like to love this post a million times. 

I miss that show too.  It's a million times better than this shit. 😔

[jaybird2]

On 12/6/2020 at 5:50 AM, KnoxForPres said:

I think you’re right but I  can’t stand Kathryn and wonder why Bravo thinks she’s so important. I’ve found her annoying the whole time she’s been on this show and don’t believe she brings any value to it. 

Danni becoming unhinged while talking to Leva was disturbing. Wtf is wrong with her?  Her alliance and allegiance  with Kathryn is one sided and ridiculous.  Her mannerisms, which I realize she likely has no control over, annoy the shit out of me. She’s like a constant weird “surprised” state of face and jolty. Fire her and Kathryn I say!

While Craig sounded 16 years old I agree if I had a gig on HSN and they told me I had to do it remotely from home I wouldn’t want to either. When I had access I watched hours of those goofy programs  like HSN and QVC (nothing bad happens and no chance of sad animal commercials) to go to sleep and I would want the on air good vibes with the hosts too. 

I’m just not buying Shep and his girl for some reason. I don’t see chemistry there and I feel like he got a girlfriend to offset that horrible video he posted where he mocked the homeless lady. Like he used his mailbox money to hire a PR agent who said “Shep!  Hey bud!  Get the most vanilla non-controversial person and get in a relationship!”  And even if he goes to the altar with her I stand by my thought- it doesn’t feel real to me. 

oh, i agree kathryn needs to be gone.  i've never liked her and believe whitney when he said she slept her way on the show....but i feel that bravo feels there wouldn't be a show w/o her.  bravo jumped on the chance to film thomas & kathryn together( one of the 1st scenes this season). 

i've always liked danny but never understood her fondness for kathryn

[jaybird2]

On 12/7/2020 at 8:44 AM, Neurochick said:

Nice to finally see a WOC on this lily white show.  Yay. 😁

what am i missing here?  granted i'm a very old, southern woman of privilege but i don't see leva as a woc.  don't stone me or call me racist!

[biakbiak]

16 minutes ago, jaybird2 said:

what am i missing here?  granted i'm a very old, southern woman of privilege but i don't see leva as a woc.  don't stone me or call me racist!

A lot of Persian, North Africans and Middle Eastern people do not identify as white regardless of what the US Census states.

Edited December 10, 2020 by biakbiak

[jaybird2]

34 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

A lot of Persian, North Africans and Middle Eastern people do not identify as white regardless of what the US Census states.

thanks

[RedHawk]

11 hours ago, biakbiak said:

A lot of Persian, North Africans and Middle Eastern people do not identify as white regardless of what the US Census states.

And yet I know at least 10 people from those three groups (either natives or first generation) who do identify as white, so it has somewhat surprised and confused me to see others who think of themselves as POC, but I do understand it. In the U.S., any shade of skin other than white makes you “other” in the eyes of some, so might lead to more people (and especially, younger people) identifying as POC.

[Mr. Miner]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 1:14 PM, Lizzing said:

This show just makes me miss SC:NOLA.  

Is SC NOLA not coming back?

[Neurochick]

6 hours ago, RedHawk said:

And yet I know at least 10 people from those three groups (either natives or first generation) who do identify as white, so it has somewhat surprised and confused me to see others who think of themselves as POC, but I do understand it. In the U.S., any shade of skin other than white makes you “other” in the eyes of some, so might lead to more people (and especially, younger people) identifying as POC.

I think what happens a lot is though some people might identify as white, many people in the USA don't.  

It happened to my roommate who was half Japanese, half white.

[wallies]

Like Danni, I’d find it difficult to be friends with Kathryn, especially with her habitual tardiness and disappearing acts. But that luncheon circle of Bravo-planted, holier-than-thou vultures encouraging weak-minded Danni NOT to reconcile with Kathryn because she's a descendant of John C. Calhoun was sickening to watch. What if everyone was subject to a full genealogy search and judged by the actions of long-dead ancestors we’ve never met? Who would pass such a test? How far back do we go? If you discovered your best friend was related to so-and-so, would it really change your relationship with them? Danni and Kathryn’s problems have nothing to do with Kathryn’s ancestry but rather both their actions within the relationship, which, if you’re going to judge someone, actions are really the only things that are fair game. The lunchtime virtue-signalers need to realize "immutable characteristics" - i.e. things that are beyond one's ability to control - is not just skin color but family.

Edited December 11, 2020 by wallies

[MyrnaMinkoff]

8 hours ago, wallies said:

Like Danni, I’d find it difficult to be friends with Kathryn, especially with her habitual tardiness and disappearing acts. But that luncheon circle of Bravo-planted, holier-than-thou vultures encouraging weak-minded Danni NOT to reconcile with Kathryn because she's a descendant of John C. Calhoun was sickening to watch. What if everyone was subject to a full genealogy search and judged by the actions of long-dead ancestors we’ve never met? Who would pass such a test? How far back do we go? If you discovered your best friend was related to so-and-so, would it really change your relationship with them? Danni and Kathryn’s problems have nothing to do with Kathryn’s ancestry but rather both their actions within the relationship, which, if you’re going to judge someone, actions are really the only things that are fair game. The lunchtime virtue-signalers need to realize "immutable characteristics" - i.e. things that are beyond one's ability to control - is not just skin color but family.

Ugh that whole discussion made me ill- so sanctimonious and yes, the demands to apologize for ones ancestors were horrifying. I say this as a POC and progressive - this was mean girls masquerading as wokeness.

[Neurochick]

19 hours ago, wallies said:

But that luncheon circle of Bravo-planted, holier-than-thou vultures encouraging weak-minded Danni NOT to reconcile with Kathryn because she's a descendant of John C. Calhoun was sickening to watch.

I take issue at them being called vultures.  They were speaking the truth.  However, Danni shouldn't be friends with Kathryn because she's a user who doesn't know how to be a friend.

[IKnowRight]

On 12/3/2020 at 10:07 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

I object to this show’s intellectual dishonesty vis a vis the Calhoun statue.  Sure, show the meeting about whether to take it down if that is what is going on in Charleston at the time.  If the citizens get together and agree to move a statue to a museum, I could see the argument in favor of that, even though I think it should stay up, whether one agrees with the man or not.  Maybe especially if one disagrees with the man.

One of the things that I realized when studying for my BA in History, is that history is there.  It can’t be changed.  We can learn from it. 

When my husband and I went to the other Charleston—Charleston, WV—we sought out the statue at the capitol of a famous Confederate general, as well as African Zion Baptist Church, the church of one of the earliest black leaders in the US.  If either of them had been taken away, I would be less educated.  And I believe in education.

Presenting just one side of this subject matter is so objectionable to me.  I see exactly what Bravo is up to.  Giving us the Reader’s Digest version and only one side so that our minds are made up for us.  I certainly don’t tune in to get schooled...by Andy Cohen and his proxy, Whitney Sudler-Smith.

That lunch was appalling to me.  Everyone at the table was so self-righteous about Kathryn’s great-great-(however many greats) grandfather.  How do they know what their ancestors have done and what they have stood for?  Kathryn is no more responsible for people who said and did things before she was born than they are.  I learned this from the law:  judge the act, not the man.  

And I think it’s absurd to equate 170 year old stances with today’s.  If we go back 500 years, there was slavery on the Barbary Coast.  Thousands of years ago, the Jews were enslaved.  Why aren’t they talking about that?  It’s insulting and rather pointless to me to boil civil rights and slavery down to not just one episode of a reality show, but a few minutes of one.  

Excellent post LS.  I have a BA in History as well. 
 

That lunch was bizarre.  Mostly non cast members on to virtue signal for the Bravo Gods, acting as if they know all there is to know, is a sign of ignorance itself.  They made a lot of assumptions. 

[b2H]

I'm going to step in here on Madison and Austin.  More specifically, on Austin.  

The cast is very hard on Austin with starting his beer product.  The festival downtown showed that the stuff is good and interesting and will eventually get a following.  At the start of marketing a new product, local outlets are pretty much the only thing available.  It will take time to get it into other retail and wholesale outlets.

I say this from experience:  my son in law has been marketing his barbeque sauce for over six years.  He is finally in retail outlets throughout New England and the rest of the Northeast.  It took him years to get there.  Years.  It's not like opening a local hair salon, when you already have a bit of a following and word of mouth can get the message out.  Alcohol is far more difficult than barbeque sauce to market - some of the options are not available to alcohol sales, for instance - son in law spent a bit of time on Amazon Marketplace (not advised, by the way - it was a VERY bad experience).

I sincerely hope that, when the pandemic ends, Austin can get his beer into regional distribution in a couple of years and that he's wildly successful.  There's not much he could do during filming when so much of the city was shutdown.  In some States, bars and restaurants continue to be shut down due to the pandemic.  Hell, Leva's establishments were shutdown.

It's the same as Craig getting on HSN with his pillows.  It's not easy to get on these shopping networks.  Three years ago, Craig was disparaged and sneered at for trying this.  Now he's on a national platform, selling his product.  And yes, he did a great job on his broadcast.  Where's that bitchy girlfriend who looked down her nose at him now?  This is a major success for him and she couldn't stand by him long enough for him to get there.  Too bad for her.

I call Producer intervention here to try and make a story with Pringle.  If someone loves someone, they work with them to try to make a success (as my daughter did with son in law).  One doesn't demand immediate success, especially if the partner doesn't understand any of the business.

As far as Kathryn is concerned, yep, she did something bad.  Another in a long line of bad things.  The cast now want her to be accountable for her family's role in this?  That's how I saw this.  When the other families take similar responsibility, I'll be happy to beat on Kathryn to do the same.  Kathryn has been the whipping boy for this cast since its inception.  It's getting old.

I'm close to taking this off my DVR.

Edited December 13, 2020 by b2H

[OldButHappy]

16 minutes ago, b2H said:

It's the same as Craig getting on HSN with his pillows.  It's not easy to get on these shopping networks.  Three years ago, Craig was disparaged and sneered at for trying this.  Now he's on a national platform, selling his product.  And yes, he did a great job on his broadcast.  Where's that bitchy girlfriend who looked down her nose at him now?  This is a major success for him and she couldn't stand by him long enough for him to get there.  Too bad for her.

As someone who could always relate to Craig's ADHD, I agree that Craig was treated badly. My family laughed at/discouraged my best accomplishments when I first proposed them: How could a flake like me build a house or become an architect when she can't even balance her checkbook or keep her laundry done?(Ans: I built the house and got my masters because I was engaged in the ideas and could focus on them). Craig's the same, imho

HOWEVER

Craig isn't doing his part to be a responsible person/partner/business owner and should't get a pass just b/c he's the classic entitled dude. He admitted, to his therapist, that he "Lies all the time, because it comes naturally". The women in his life do the heavy lifting and he looks good on television. So even though Naomi was being mean to someone with the same brain type as me, I was 100% on her side. 

Also, I only accomplished anything once I got sober. People with ADHD and Aspergers(Autism on the DL) are super prone to drinking and drugs. Being wired differently and trying to figure out how to navigate a neurotypical world causes massive anxiety, and booze feels like the best.relief. ever. 

So IMHO, until Craig stops boozing and dodging responsibilities, he's seriously hurting his chances for long-term success.

[heatherchandler]

On 12/11/2020 at 3:57 PM, wallies said:

Like Danni, I’d find it difficult to be friends with Kathryn, especially with her habitual tardiness and disappearing acts. But that luncheon circle of Bravo-planted, holier-than-thou vultures encouraging weak-minded Danni NOT to reconcile with Kathryn because she's a descendant of John C. Calhoun was sickening to watch. What if everyone was subject to a full genealogy search and judged by the actions of long-dead ancestors we’ve never met? Who would pass such a test? How far back do we go? If you discovered your best friend was related to so-and-so, would it really change your relationship with them? Danni and Kathryn’s problems have nothing to do with Kathryn’s ancestry but rather both their actions within the relationship, which, if you’re going to judge someone, actions are really the only things that are fair game. The lunchtime virtue-signalers need to realize "immutable characteristics" - i.e. things that are beyond one's ability to control - is not just skin color but family.

You said this so well.  

22 hours ago, b2H said:

I'm close to taking this off my DVR.

I am too, but I keep it on for Craig.

 

[Boo Boo]

On 12/3/2020 at 10:58 PM, LakeGal said:

I found it hard to believe that Danni knew absolutely nothing about Kathryn's Calhoun past.  I thought the whole Thomas wanting to breed with her because of her name was a big storyline.

I know people like Danni but I'm suspect on her and her alleged sweetness.  I don't think we're seeing her authentic self.  Also, what redeeming quality does Kathyrn have that makes Danni want to be friends?  I feel like if she was truly this sweetie pie we see, she would not have any relationship with Kathryn other than filming.

[Boo Boo]

On 12/6/2020 at 9:45 AM, pasdetrois said:

I don't watch any more but was curious how Bravo would handle the racial situation. (I already knew how these idiots would handle COVID.)

Agree that Kathryn absolutely knew the nasty implications of using a monkey image - any monkey image - when communicating with a Black person.

While I agree with the sentiments expressed by the women around the table, it felt like showboating for the cameras. Especially Gwynn, who apparently saw the writing on the wall and began to frantically sever her ties to Kathryn.

I noticed the severe shaking. I suspect Shep is a hard core alcoholic. He gets the shakes when he stops for production time. Agree that the girlfriend is fake.

Hungover Craig also looks like 90 miles of hard road. Craig is going to ruin those pretty boy looks real fast.

Leva is striking and articulate, but her stridency gets old. Clearly she's Bravo's very belated attempt to point the show away from its White entitled-ness.

Danni is so pathetic; it's uncomfortable to watch. It's as if all of her self-esteem is generated by her desperate attempts to become a main character on the show. She latched on as Kathryn's "friend," and now she's paying for it.

 

 

 

Amen to all of this.  Kathyrn might be an idiot, but she's not that stupid not to have zero idea about monkey connotations.  Just why exactly did she choose that when berating a black radio host?