S05.E03: Changes

[greekmom]

9 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

When she said "I wonder what it would be like to kiss someone like you" I thought what? A nerd? Then I was like ooooohhhhh.

RIGHT?!?! I know where the writers were going but I also think wouldn't it be funny if Randall meets up with her to confront the moment and she's like "I wanted to kiss you because I never kissed anyone so smart!" (sorry I am just not liking Randall at this moment).

9 hours ago, Empress1 said:

 

It’s happened to me many times - well, people try but I don’t allow them to do so. I’ve swatted away and ducked to avoid many a hand. At Tess’s age I wasn’t self-possessed enough to take a stand. (I was also straightening my hair at that age - I wear my natural curls now and have for over 10 years - but white people still tried to touch it without asking because they didn’t understand how it was straight.) I am 100% on her side in terms of her grievances - we are not animals, do not pet us, and misgendering her non-binary friend isn’t cool. But I agreed with Randall and Beth that that wasn’t the best way to make their point (though it was very Gen Z).

 

I am so sorry that has happened to you. I would never never ever think of touching someone's hair. It's kind of like major personal space.

[ClareWalks]

Is anyone else really confused by the Vietnamese grandpa/granddaughter storyline? I was following along just fine. Had to come here to find out who the woman in the picture was. If it's Randall's mom...and if she is somehow related to the little girl...how does she not know who "the woman in all the pictures" is? Wouldn't it be her grandmother? How would she not have been told who her GRANDMOTHER is? That's what makes me think she isn't related to Randall. But if she is, that's a really bizarre family dynamic going on.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

Have y'all not seen Grease? In the scene where they are about to sing Summer Lovin', the T-Birds are making fun of the football players, especially Tom Chism (played by Lorenzo Lamas) when he accidentally steps on this helmet and gets it stuck on his foot. Sonny yells, "Yeah, you really put your foot into it this time, Chism!" because his foot was actually IN the helmet AND it's a saying meaning "you put your all into it".

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

Have y'all not seen Grease? In the scene where they are about to sing Summer Lovin', the T-Birds are making fun of the football players, especially Tom Chism (played by Lorenzo Lamas) when he accidentally steps on this helmet and gets it stuck on his foot. Sonny yells, "Yeah, you really put your foot into it this time, Chism!" because his foot was actually IN the helmet AND it's a saying meaning "you put your all into it".

And see, for me it meant he really 'stepped in it', as in put his foot where it doesn't belong (like a pile of doodoo).

He made a mistake. Did something awkward.

 

[Luckylyn]

I’m really appreciated the Kevin/Madison conversation.  I like that Madison is wanting to take her time regarding marriage and the acknowledgment that they don’t know each other that well yet.  I really like their new openness about their issues and concerns about the impact on their children.

Tess’s only mistake was not talking to Beth and Randall because they would have supported her if she had told them what the teacher was doing.  My impression is she’s trying to assert her independence by seeking her own way to handle the situation without seeking support from her parents.  She was right to speak out but the method wasn’t the most effective one available.  She deliberately cut her parents out of the loop and that needed to be addressed.  This wasn’t just about calling out a teacher who was doing the wrong thing but a way to announce her independence.  Also the kids should be making their own breakfast by now especially if they are picky about stuff like the type of eggs being used.  If Tess wants to act independently than she needs to start making her own food. I feel like Beth and Randall do too much for the girls sometimes.  Was it last season where we saw Beth and Randall were washing the dinner dishes and making lunches for the kids?   I do think Tess’s punishment is too long.  Two weeks seems reasonable to me.  They also need to have the “if you are grown now take care of your own household stuff” conversation with her.  If she wants to stand on her own then that should include chores like grocery shopping, cooking,  etc...  Do the kids even do their own laundry?  I grew up in a house where everything was done for us and it makes adulthood harder when you are on own and suddenly you have to learn how to take care of household stuff yourself.  I appreciate my parents’ willingness to work full time while also doing all the shopping, cooking, cleaning, etc... but I wished when we were growing up they let us have more responsibilities beyond just cleaning our room.  It would have made the transition to adulthood easier.  I have a sister who really struggled with taking care of that kind of stuff when she moved out the first time.  Her roommate and her had a lot of conflict over it and she ended up coming back to live at home until she got married.

 I am someone who looks racially ambiguous.  People can tell I am not white but can’t easily identify my ethnicity.  I have long relaxed hair.  My entire  life people have just tried to touch my hair, and it has always bothered me.  When I was a child, adults who should have known better would just put their fingers on my hair and sometimes yank on my ponytail explaining they wanted to know if I had a weave as if that justified it. As an adult, I still have to fend people off who try to touch my hair.  I was at the salon last year and a stranger walked up to my chair while my beautician was putting rollers for me and just grabbed my hair.  I jumped away and the woman had the nerve to look at me like I was being rude.  People feel this entitlement to touch the hair of women of color.    I can understand Tess wanting to speak out. 

[Quof]

10 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Damn, I thought tween Kate was a different actress at first!

Me too.  Are we sure it wasn't?

[Quof]

10 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Admittedly telling  Your teacher "s**** y**" wasn't great but I don't think it was worth the 6 week punishment either.

I think we're supposed to assume they said "Fuck You", but of course the show couldn't air that.   "Screw you" is hardly swearing.  

[BusyOctober]

With everything this episode served up, one of my main complaints is about Diaper Gate.  Not because Toby didn’t unload the teeny package of 12 diapers from the car. Or because he failed to remove the teeny package of diapers, but apparently brought in the other grocery bags.  Not because Kate couldn’t have grabbed them herself, since you know, teeny package , not too burdensome to lift.  Not even because they were bickering in front of potential baby mama (scam alert, BTW). My eye rolling moment over the whole scene was when Toby revealed Kate only buys ONE teeny package of diapers at a time because she doesn’t want to “hoard” them.  WTF? I know this is taking place in the height of quarantine and provisions were/are limited.  But why not buy at least a case of diapers at a time??   My child has been out of diapers for 10+ years, but I know she went through a lot of ‘em in a day.  I guess the point the writers were making is “Kate is a good person!  She is empathetic to others’ needs in these difficult times!  See how woke she is!”  However all I thought of was, Kate would rather she or Toby run to Target on a daily basis to get one teeny package, thus exposing herself or Toby and their son to potential COVID contamination???  And what a waste of gas!  Not very woke about the environment I guess.

[ClareWalks]

37 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

Have y'all not seen Grease? In the scene where they are about to sing Summer Lovin', the T-Birds are making fun of the football players, especially Tom Chism (played by Lorenzo Lamas) when he accidentally steps on this helmet and gets it stuck on his foot. Sonny yells, "Yeah, you really put your foot into it this time, Chism!" because his foot was actually IN the helmet AND it's a saying meaning "you put your all into it".

That could also have been a play on "putting your foot in your mouth" (like when you say something insensitive).

[PRgal]

This show is trying wayyyyy too hard to be “woke.”  

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

With everything this episode served up, one of my main complaints is about Diaper Gate.  Not because Toby didn’t unload the teeny package of 12 diapers from the car. Or because he failed to remove the teeny package of diapers, but apparently brought in the other grocery bags.  Not because Kate couldn’t have grabbed them herself, since you know, teeny package , not too burdensome to lift.  Not even because they were bickering in front of potential baby mama (scam alert, BTW). My eye rolling moment over the whole scene was when Toby revealed Kate only buys ONE teeny package of diapers at a time because she doesn’t want to “hoard” them.  WTF? I know this is taking place in the height of quarantine and provisions were/are limited.  But why not buy at least a case of diapers at a time??   My child has been out of diapers for 10+ years, but I know she went through a lot of ‘em in a day.  I guess the point the writers were making is “Kate is a good person!  She is empathetic to others’ needs in these difficult times!  See how woke she is!”  However all I thought of was, Kate would rather she or Toby run to Target on a daily basis to get one teeny package, thus exposing herself or Toby and their son to potential COVID contamination???  And what a waste of gas!  Not very woke about the environment I guess.

Everything about the diaper scene was so cringeworthy.  From them literally leaving no diapers and being like "Eh, he enjoys sitting in his pee and poop" to a lady literally planning on letting you adopt her baby and the lack of recognition that there is a difference between hoarding and not being prepared, etc.  I think all the Pearsons have a problem with moderation - Randall goes from one extreme to the other. Kate doesn't want to hoard so she keeps no diapers on hand.  Etc.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

If it's Randall's mom...and if she is somehow related to the little girl...how does she not know who "the woman in all the pictures" is? Wouldn't it be her grandmother? How would she not have been told who her GRANDMOTHER is? That's what makes me think she isn't related to Randall. But if she is, that's a really bizarre family dynamic going on.

I don’t think the granddaughter is related to Laurel at all. I think Laurel and the grandfather were in love/married long before the little girl was born, and it didn’t workout for some reason but he remembers the relationship fondly and keeps the photos around. Could be the granddaughter’s uncle/aunt is Laurel’s child (the granddaughter’s parent is a half sibling to Laurel’s child). 

[qtpye]

11 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

The actors who play the younger versions of the big three really have had huge growth spurts. 

I almost think they do not need the teenage version of the Big Three, though they could now become the young adult versions

10 hours ago, bybrandy said:

My mom is blonde and we were at an Indian restaurant when I was in college (like maybe 3 months after my dad died... a restaurant my family went to a lot before my dad died) and the owner sat down at our table and talked to us for a bit and then he ran his hands all through my mom's hair and I was SUPER SQUCIKED because EWWWW.  And my mom was a little squicked because EWWWWW but not nearly as much as mine.  And I asked it why it bothered her so much less than me because he was like literally molesting's her hair!!!!   I am still SUPER SQUICKED thinking about it.   And my mom, who is a total badass, had worked in Saudi Arabia (did I mention the badass bit?) a few years before and a lot of the men their touched her hair so while she was uncomfortalbe with it she wasn't as surprised at it as I was.  

And I always think of that when the discussion goes to black hair.  How uncomfortable I still am literally 20 years after that experience and how that happens to natural hair people all the freaking time...   and it is so violating!!!

I mean I think natural hair looks amazing because my hair is just super boring but I respect everybody is impressed by hair that they could never have... but still stay in your literal lane and don't ever, ever, EVER touch people's hair.. without express permission.  EVER!!!  
 

I have Indian people in my family and some times the culture is horrible about respecting boundaries, particularly with females.

[Empress1]

46 minutes ago, Quof said:

Me too.  Are we sure it wasn't?

I’m pretty confident it’s the same actress - she’s just growing up. I think the narrative around Kate’s weight is that she was a chubby kid (the teen actress was chubby in previous seasons), a height-weight proportionate teen who started gaining after Jack died (I remember her telling Rebecca she’d gained 20 pounds and Rebecca saying not to worry, they’d had an awful year, and I also remember college-age Randall commenting that Kevin was drunk all the time and Kate was eating all the time), and continued gaining and became and stayed super morbidly obese in her 20s through the present. So the actress getting thinner fits the narrative, although I doubt she did it on purpose. It looks to me like she is losing “baby fat” as she gets taller, and her weight is moving into her breasts and hips. (Going through puberty in the public eye must suck.)

Speaking of weight loss, I think the actor who plays Toby has lost more weight. I know they gave him a fat suit before, but there was a shot of him and Kate walking through the park together and I thought “He looks thinner.”

48 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

My eye rolling moment over the whole scene was when Toby revealed Kate only buys ONE teeny package of diapers at a time because she doesn’t want to “hoard” them.

Yeah, I don’t have kids but that struck me as silly. Even when we’re not in a pandemic, that strikes me as silly. She buys diapers every day? Several times a week? Strikes me as a waste of energy and time, even if she’s ordering them online. If she’s that concerned, cloth diapers would make more sense.

I did laugh at her trying to decide which mask to wear. I have a favorite mask. And Toby was right that the teeth mask gave off the wrong vibe.

[tennisgurl]

When young Kate was sitting with Rebecca on her bed, I thought they looked a lot alike. 

[Haleth]

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

When young Kate was sitting with Rebecca on her bed, I thought they looked a lot alike. 

I thought it was funny that the show is trying to hide the young actress's thinness with baggy clothing while also trying to hide Mandy's baby bump with baggy clothing.

[MadyGirl1987]

Definitely understood where Tess and her friend were coming from, but the video was the wrong way to do it. The issue became about their video, not what the teacher was doing wrong. Really glad Randall and Beth were on the same page with this. Was afraid they were going to pull some drama about them fighting over how to address it.

[Sake614]

Putting my 2 cents in here about the video. WAY disrespectful and that WILL come back to bite Tess in the ass when she applies to college and later when she enters the workforce. Was it wrong for the teacher to touch Tess’ hair? Absolutely. 100% wrong. Was Tess right to ask her to stop? Again, absolutely. Making a video where you call out said teacher by saying ‘screw you?’ nope. Not even remotely acceptable. You go to the principal or to your parents. But kids today see no consequences to their actions. They believe they’re right and everyone else is wrong (okay so in that respect I guess kids haven’t changed lol). But actions DO have consequences and being punished is one of them. Is six weeks without a phone too harsh? Maybe, but she’s also grounded, and I m sure they have a landline if she needs to call someone about homework or something. She has to learn respect and that there’s a time and place for everything. If taking away her phone and grounding her is the only way to achieving that, then so be it.

and just for the record, I’ve never in my life even thought about touching someone’s hair because it looks different from mine. Have I touched friends’ hair? Sure. We all used to do it as kids. ‘Oooh, I love your curls!’ As I touch said curls and make them bounce lol! But never in a ‘ooh your hair is different from mine, let me touch it and see how it feels’ kind of way. It just never even occurred to me.  

[qtpye]

28 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

When young Kate was sitting with Rebecca on her bed, I thought they looked a lot alike. 

Ironically, both tall slim brunettes.

[nexxie]

Interesting that Mackenzie Hancsicsak (who was cast as the 8-10 Kate) is playing 8th grade Kate in tonight’s episode instead of Hannah Zeile.

Mackenzie has grown up so much I thought she was a new addition at first!

Edited November 11, 2020 by nexxie

[PRgal]

24 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Interesting that Mackenzie Hancsicsak (who was cast as the 8-10 Kate) is playing 8th grade Kate in tonight’s episode instead of Hannah Zeile.

Hannah is 18-19 now, correct?  No way would she pass for 13. 
 

as for @Sake614’s point on the video coming back to haunt Tess later on:  it could even haunt Randall when he’s up for re-election. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by PRgal

[ams1001]

 

12 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Does anyone know when this episode will be available on demand? I can’t believe I just missed it.  It appears only episode 1 is available from this season.  Hmmmm....most shows are available immediately after they air.   Guess this show is too special for that. 

I just checked my on demand (Cablevision) and it's all the way at the bottom of the list for some reason. On the second page. Episode 1/2 are at the top. I don't know why it does that sometimes.

12 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I can’t remember if her ED was named (genuinely can’t, it was a long time ago) but yeah, her ED is not new. (And I’m with you - I don’t know why she decided to cling to Kate. IMO Kate didn’t deserve her loyalty - she was awful to Madison.)

I don't remember if it was named but I think it was pretty clear she at least had body dysmorphia (which goes along with most EDs, I'm sure), being the only thin person in a support group of very-overweight people and not seeming to really grasp that fact.

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Yup, and then Kate and Toby would adopt the little girl.  Because that mother they met is a scam, right?  (My guess.)

I had no idea that was Laurel in the pic.  I was thinking, "is that Zoe?" since I associate her with going to Vietnam.  Since the girl didn't call the woman in the pics grandmother, I don't think she (the girl) is related by blood to Randall.  But... just what we need!  Another character!

We've seen their daughter in a flash-forward (working at an art gallery, I think, the day grown-up Baby Jack's baby is born); she wasn't Asian so I knew the little girl wouldn't turn out to be the adoptee. I also thought of Zoe, but I didn't have time to get a good enough look at the picture. The little girl doesn't appear to be mixed race, though, so I don't think she's her grandmother, either (though, admittedly, DNA can be unpredictable). 

3 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

 If she wants to stand on her own then that should include chores like grocery shopping, cooking,  etc...  Do the kids even do their own laundry? 

I wouldn't necessarily expect a kid her age to do the grocery shopping, but she and Deja are definitely old enough to pitch in with cooking and doing their own laundry. (Annie maybe a little less so but she can do some stuff, too.) My mom went back to work full time when I was 11 and often left us instructions for starting dinner so it would be mostly ready by the time my parents got home. I think I started doing my own laundry around 12. My brother started a couple years earlier than that; the only reason I didn't is I was small for my age (didn't catch up to my peers until around grade 6-7) and couldn't reach into the washing machine.

2 hours ago, Quof said:

Me too.  Are we sure it wasn't?

I looked it up; it's definitely the same girl (and the more I looked at her the more I could see it in her face, which is less round than it was).

2 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

My eye rolling moment over the whole scene was when Toby revealed Kate only buys ONE teeny package of diapers at a time because she doesn’t want to “hoard” them.  WTF? I know this is taking place in the height of quarantine and provisions were/are limited.  But why not buy at least a case of diapers at a time??

Same. There's a difference between hoarding and having enough to last you more than a few days at a time.

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think the granddaughter is related to Laurel at all. I think Laurel and the grandfather were in love/married long before the little girl was born, and it didn’t workout for some reason but he remembers the relationship fondly and keeps the photos around. Could be the granddaughter’s uncle/aunt is Laurel’s child (the granddaughter’s parent is a half sibling to Laurel’s child). 

Maybe they got together after Randall was born and she died later?

 

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Maybe they got together after Randall was born and she died later?

That’s distinctly possible. 

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Definitely understood where Tess and her friend were coming from, but the video was the wrong way to do it. The issue became about their video, not what the teacher was doing wrong.

Mixed feelings. There is a lot happening in the world, in particular in this country that we know have always happened - police assassinating black people, for example. The reason there is a movement now, is in large part because of videos. Making it all about the video is a consequence of making the problem public but if more people don't know, things don't change.

For example, teachers abusing special education kids usually go back to work pretty soon after there is a complaint. It is not very public, so they can count on the issue being forgotten. It still happens with the murderous cops but there is an effort to keep track of where they are, if they were fired, if they are working somewhere else.

Activists make many mistakes before they find some balance on how and when to say things. I appreciate that Tess is being portrayed as a teenager who is learning, not an old soul becoming a hero

[Jeddah]

2 hours ago, Sake614 said:

WAY disrespectful and that WILL come back to bite Tess in the ass when she applies to college and later when she enters the workforce. Was it wrong for the teacher to touch Tess’ hair? Absolutely. 100% wrong. Was Tess right to ask her to stop? Again, absolutely. Making a video where you call out said teacher by saying ‘screw you?’ nope. Not even remotely acceptable. You go to the principal or to your parents.

We know she becomes a social worker, which normally requires a master’s degree. So it definitely won’t derail her academic career or keep her from entering the workforce.

Judging from this board, a lot of people think a teacher who touches students’ hair doesn’t deserve respect. If I were hiring, I would not care that someone made a video like this when they were in middle school, especially since she was absolutely right about the teacher. Some people would hold their middle school antics against them, but that seems ridiculous to me.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Jeddah

[nexxie]

39 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Hannah is 18-19 now, correct?  No way would she pass for 13. 
 

as for @Sake614’s point on the video coming back to haunt Tess later on:  it could even haunt Randall when he’s up for re-election. 

It was just surprising to see how much Mackenzie has changed.

[Racj82]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

No, I'm talking about the expression I've heard and used all my life. 

"I left a private message open on my computer and the boss saw it."

"Oh, you've put your foot in it now!"

Before last night I have never heard it used in relation to good cooking. It's no harder understand to than you being baffled by those who aren't familiar with it used this way. 

I've never heard that before. I've heard "You've stepped in it now". But, miles vary. There are phrases that are more prominent in different areas and cultures. 

[bichonblitz]

I don't have enough mental stamina to follow the new grandfather/grand daughter storyline to try to figure out what that's all about. Please, writers, enough with the twists and turns of Randall's life. I can stay on board with Kevin and his babies mama drama, Rebecca and her dementia, even the Mc Bickersons Kate and Toby because all of that is real life stuff. Randall's story has always been so far fetched. It looks like it's going to continue to be this season as well. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

8 hours ago, SadieT said:

pointless horse girl tale

Found my new band name, thanks!

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I really felt for Beth. It sucks when you fulfill your parental duty providing food and the kids won't eat it. Of course, I feel I should point out that Deja and Tess are both enough to make their own damn breakfasts. Hell, even Annie is old enough to make pancakes. I'm glad that Randall appreciated Beth's awesome pancakes!

I do get that, and maybe I'm projecting because my mother is like this, but it seemed like Beth was martyring herself for the sake of martyring herself. It's such an easy situation to avoid, "hey, I'm making pancakes! Who's interested?" and then make the appropriate amount. No food waste, no forcing anyone to eat something they don't want and no hurt feelings. I'm agreed that their kids seem very entitled because Randall and Beth do way too much for them, though. And as an aside, talk about Pearsons taking things to extremes, either their kids get their phones ALL THE TIME or NONE of the time. How about a rule that they put their phones down at the table? Seems like a good way to limit screen time to me.

[Cementhead]

3 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I don't have enough mental stamina to follow the new grandfather/grand daughter storyline to try to figure out what that's all about.

I apparently don't even have the mental stamina to READ about this new grandfather/granddaughter story line  because I came here to read about the episode first before I watch the show and I am having one hell of a time following what is even being said about it.  I am either too exhausted to keep up or simply do not care. 

I agree with the peeps who have commented that this show is starting to bury itself under its own fandangled minutiae.  I really just want to sit back and chill when I tune in; I don't want to have to draw up a flowchart or do mental gymnastics to stay in the story.

[ams1001]

6 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I do get that, and maybe I'm projecting because my mother is like this, but it seemed like Beth was martyring herself for the sake of martyring herself. It's such an easy situation to avoid, "hey, I'm making pancakes! Who's interested?" and then make the appropriate amount. No food waste, no forcing anyone to eat something they don't want and no hurt feelings. 

I was thinking the same thing. "Why didn't you ask who wants pancakes before you made them?"

I feel like they really try to play up the "sullen teenager" Tess/Deja vs. "still happy little girl" Annie (which 5 years in, is still pretty much her only personality trait). It's kind of annoying.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I do get that, and maybe I'm projecting because my mother is like this, but it seemed like Beth was martyring herself for the sake of martyring herself. It's such an easy situation to avoid, "hey, I'm making pancakes! Who's interested?" and then make the appropriate amount

Especially since it appeared she made them while the girls were already eating and she was worried about them being late for virtual school.

[After7Only]

4 hours ago, greekmom said:

RIGHT?!?! I know where the writers were going but I also think wouldn't it be funny if Randall meets up with her to confront the moment and she's like "I wanted to kiss you because I never kissed anyone so smart!" (sorry I am just not liking Randall at this moment).

I think the writers were purposeful in how the wrote it.   By her saying someone like you instead of a Black guy, It better made the point.   Even if Randall had shared the story with Rebecca when she asked how things went, Rebecca probably wouldn’t have immediately “got it”.    She might have assumed a nerd or something else rather than Black.    Randall knew what the girl meant, but wasn’t prepared to explain it to his mother.   And perhaps a bit resentful that he felt he might need to explain it.  

[cardigirl]

22 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I do get that, and maybe I'm projecting because my mother is like this, but it seemed like Beth was martyring herself for the sake of martyring herself. It's such an easy situation to avoid, "hey, I'm making pancakes! Who's interested?" and then make the appropriate amount. No food waste, no forcing anyone to eat something they don't want and no hurt feelings. I'm agreed that their kids seem very entitled because Randall and Beth do way too much for them, though. And as an aside, talk about Pearsons taking things to extremes, either their kids get their phones ALL THE TIME or NONE of the time. How about a rule that they put their phones down at the table? Seems like a good way to limit screen time to me.

I agree.  When I was a mom with teenagers at home, I found I expended way too much energy on doing things I thought they should or would be happy and excited about and then being mad/sad/hurt when they barely noticed my efforts. I found I was a lot happier when I expended my energy on other things with bigger benefits, and I think Beth would too, but she's so busy being righteous about her "foot in it" pancakes and no one being appreciative enough because of their teen attitude, she's missing out on bigger picture stuff, like the hair-touching.  She even makes Randall take the fall for her by making him pronounce the sentence of no phone and grounded for six weeks.  

She hasn't yet realized that she's not mothering young children that need to be told every minute of every day what to do. She's not made the transition yet to daughters who need a different type of parenting. Wonder if the show will continue to show her fighting them on their autonomy. 

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There may have been frequent commercial breaks, but the episode was 42 minutes long which is the typical length of an hourlong drama on network tv these days.

I knew someone would call me out on my estimates and wild exaggerations on the amount of commercials. 🙂  But I will never watch the show in real time again.  I'll DVR it and watch it that way, because honestly, I could not stand how often it broke for commercials. Ridiculous!

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

I apparently don't even have the mental stamina to READ about this new grandfather/granddaughter story line  because I came here to read about the episode first before I watch the show and I am having one hell of a time following what is even being said about it.  I am either too exhausted to keep up or simply do not care. 

It's one of those side stories that has you wondering how it fits in and even what time frame you're in. Older man and granddaughter fishing, speaking Vietnamese-with-subtitles - is it 1970s Vietnam? Today Vietnam? Then they're speaking English - is it today in the PA woods? We still don't actually know. (Well, the Laurel picture at the end suggests it's not war-era Vietnam, plus them switching to English, and the little girl has no accent - some of the dialogue implies the grandfather is teaching her the language and they have a "rule" that they speak it while they're fishing - so I think it's a reasonable guess to say they're not in Vietnam at all, but that's all that's clear...well, as clear as this show gets.)

[LeisureTime]

Regarding Tess, I feel like Randall and Beth missed a good learning opportunity. Like, yeah, it's not appropriate to tell people to screw themselves (though, really, "screw you" is like the tamest of swears a person could give) and that should come with a punishment, but six weeks is excessive. And what does Tess learn from it, really? This could have been a lesson on expression and respect and activism and a booster on internet safety as well as an opportunity to get to know who Tess is becoming. Instead, all Tess learns is punishment avoidance (which btw, if you want to talk activism, civil disobedience is all about accepting, not avoiding, punishment for breaking unjust laws) and resentment.

LOVED the stuff with Kevin and Madison. I'm so glad they're 1. Having these issues and 2. Talking about them. I was really afraid pancake-gate was going to be a secret issue that dragged on for weeks.

I'm worried about Toby and Kate already being so attached to the birth mom of that baby. I figure it's either going to go in the direction of A Million Little Things where Toby and inspire her to want to raise the baby and she changes her mind, or she doesn't change her mind, but now they're all friends and the whole parental lines get blurred resulting in angst and resentment. Also, yeah, she did seem a little too "perfect" for them. Like, Toby's "she stalked our socials" might not be too far off.  But I also cannot stand Willow Rosenberg, so that might be bleeding into my perception of this person whose name I can't remember.

Jack and Kevin were so sweet, and I'm trying to decide if the flashbacks to Teen Jack with his dad were supposed to be like "here's one of the few good memories Jack has of time with his dad" or if it was an "I'm going to do it better" sort of thing.

I'm starting to wonder how much longer we have with the Tween Big 3. As they get older, it's starting to stretch believability that they could turn into the Teen Big 3, especially the Kate actress. Though, it was a nice touch to already have the Buffy poster in her room.

[PRgal]

14 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I am from Chicago and have heard the saying before many times.

It’s a matter of exposure.  I think someone unthread said that the expression is unique to certain communities.  If you don’t have exposure to said communities, then you won’t know.  A few years ago, I told some women I was sitting with that I was going to Seder with my husband.  One woman asked me what that was.  She didn’t know a lot of Jews, despite living in Toronto, so I had to explain.  

[Quickbeam]

13 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Does anyone know when this episode will be available on demand? I can’t believe I just missed it.  It appears only episode 1 is available from this season.  Hmmmm....most shows are available immediately after they air.   Guess this show is too special for that. 

It posts a week later on Peacock, if that helps. 

[Cementhead]

For Canadians, you can find it a day later at ctv.ca. 

[ams1001]

12 minutes ago, LeisureTime said:

Jack and Kevin were so sweet, and I'm trying to decide if the flashbacks to Teen Jack with his dad were supposed to be like "here's one of the few good memories Jack has of time with his dad" or if it was an "I'm going to do it better" sort of thing.

I feel like it's a mix of both. Something he shared with his dad alone, but also the first indicator of his tendency toward addictive behavior (both in exercising excessively in the first place and also hiding it from his parents).

[Racj82]

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

This show is trying wayyyyy too hard to be “woke.”  

Any show in the real world today is "woke" because they are dealing with real life situations. Everything that happened with the focus on police brutality hit a lot of people very hard and it's good to deal with that. Teenagers today have a whole different level of issues and labels. The show isn't making them up, just showing them. 

All I ask is that it all comes from a real place. The show isn't preaching things to me necessarily. But, they are kind of living in them and letting them effect the characters. 

This isn't a high concept show in that they can just focus on the concept alone. They have to show how the world affects them or did. It doesn't bother me. Trust me, it can at times. I've rolled my eyes at so many teen related shows this day and age because it feels like gender and sexual identity has to be put in all of them but it's accurate to how many teens are these days.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I feel like they really try to play up the "sullen teenager" Tess/Deja vs. "still happy little girl" Annie (which 5 years in, is still pretty much her only personality trait). It's kind of annoying.

I mean honestly, what are Tess' personality traits?  Being an anxious lesbian who apparently is very into cage free eggs?  I felt like both Annie and Tess were largely sidelined once Deja came into the picture. 

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Randall's story has always been so far fetched. It looks like it's going to continue to be this season as well. 

This season, I fully expect him to track down the supermarket where his birth mother did not get the promotion, and buy it.  He'll be deeply into running the store until the writers get bored and forget it exists.   

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

I mean honestly, what are Tess' personality traits?  Being an anxious lesbian who apparently is very into cage free eggs?  I felt like both Annie and Tess were largely sidelined once Deja came into the picture. 

 

True, but at least we know something about her and what goes on in her head and personal life (and we also know something of her future in that she becomes a social worker...we have yet to see even a reference to Annie in the flash forwards, either). The one time we thought Annie was maybe having some kind of complicated emotions (being anxious about moving? I don't even really remember) in the end she said she was just joking and she was fine. 

[deirdra]

Hannah Zeile just turned 23, but Mackenzie Hancsicsak (13) is now several inches taller than she is.

Edited November 11, 2020 by deirdra

[Quiet1]

How old is the video? Odd that it is coming up now. They haven't been in school for 8 months.

Still not liking Madison. I will need to skip her scenes until she and Kevin are over, if that ever happens. I hope she goes back to a couple of episodes a season. 

[Neurochick]

16 hours ago, Runningwild said:

I’m on the principal’s side. Tess and her friend should not have made that video. The teacher was wrong to touch Tess’s hair. That’s a given. Tess asked her to stop and she did. Even if it does bother the other kids that the teacher is touching their hair, that is not for Tess to call her teacher out on a video on the internet. And don’t even get me started with “they.”

I'm not exactly on the principal's side at all.  If you're a teacher and you're touching the hair of your black students, then you need to be fired, and sent back to school to learn how to be a human being.  

I felt so bad for tween Randall, those are the little microaggressions that black folk deal with all the time.

I don't have a problem with "they" at all.  Here's why:  I work in a university.  At one time my job was processing Visas for students from China.  I could not tell by the name if the student was a male or female.  After making too many mistakes regarding gender, I started saying "they," made my life easier.  

[himela]

I liked the episode because it had more present than past. Two comments:

1. No, I don't buy that anyone in their right minds would choose Kate and Toby to give their baby to, when they have hundreds of other couples to choose from. I'm not saying Kate and Toby are bad people but Kate can barely walk now at 40 years old, what will she do when the kid is running in the street at 6 or 7? I mean, as an overweight person I've always faced people treating me in a certain way and being negatively biased to me. I have had strangers in the street stoping me and (in a caring way) telling me to lose the weight. Is it not the same in America? Are people so open and unbiased towards obese people? I'm really interested to know. Maybe people in my country are just cruel. :S

2. I don't like Madisson AT ALL. I mean, I'm really close to hating her, more when I found out she is the wife of the writer. She is a cold person and I don't see why Kevin would want to sacrifice himself with her. She has nothing that makes her special, nothing that you can like her for. I see an effort from the writers to make her and Kevin work but all I'm thinking is, NO KEVIN, DONT DO IT, RUN AWAY! They can be co-parents for the kids but not a couple. How can you decide to raise kids with someone you don't even know? I mean, even the best couples make huge mistakes raising their kids, imagine these two who are literally strangers.

[Mldh598]

17 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

The pregnant mother is gonna end up being a scammer who takes their money and gets their hopes up . Guarantee she’s not even pregnant and if she is , she has no intention of giving that baby up . 
 

She'll either be a scammer or the adoption will go through but she'll try to stay involved in Kate & Toby's life (or become stalker-ish about it). I felt like Toby saying,"It's like she stalked our social media" was a possible clue that that might happen. She's a bit much and I don't trust her. If it seems too good to be true....

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I don't have enough mental stamina to follow the new grandfather/grand daughter storyline to try to figure out what that's all about. Please, writers, enough with the twists and turns of Randall's life. I can stay on board with Kevin and his babies mama drama, Rebecca and her dementia, even the Mc Bickersons Kate and Toby because all of that is real life stuff. Randall's story has always been so far fetched. It looks like it's going to continue to be this season as well. 

I love following the new stories, keeps me interested.  

[Jodithgrace]

Beth should have remembered that nobody in the history of movies or tv has ever actually eaten a breakfast that their mother prepares. People are forever grabbing a piece of toast and running out the door leaving piles of uneaten food on the table. It might be the most important meal of the day but it is the most uneaten.

Maybe "putting her foot in it," means that Beth made it with sole. (sorry)

I guess the fact that Randall's birth mother was in the previouslies was intended to clue us into the identity of the woman in the photo. But I had no idea who it was until I read the Entertainment Weekly recap. Since we didn't know the timeline, I was thinking, maybe Annie, though they didn't seem to have flying cars, so maybe it wasn't that far in the future. And of course, since the family was Vietnamese,  I was thinking of Jack's brother, and how it could be related to him, though the show seems to have forgotten him for the time being. 

I like Kevin and Madison's budding relationship. They are being honest with each other, which is a good start.

Kate and Toby's relationship, on the other hand, gets on my nerves. And what's with the "terror" at something going wrong? Disappointment yes, but terror? And, what was that birth mother telling her 8 year old daughter about her soon to be brother or sister? An 8 year old is old enough to have opinions. Not that it's Willow's decision, but I'm just curious how you tell a child that you are giving away their sibling. i really wish they had given her a toddler instead of a child that age. Weird choice. Unless, of course, that's what changes her mind at the last minute.