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S11.E06: Japanese Week

Athena

By Athena
in The Great British Bake Off

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meep.meep

meep.meep

3 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Sure, they are in the dill pickle section.

So it's OK to be booted out of the competition because of a personal dislike by a judge?  Sorry, I don't think that's fair at all.

The ironic thing about Paul's aversion to pickles is that the Japanese love pickles.  I've been served a course of nothing but pickles at a high end Japanese restaurant.  Not just pickled cucumbers, they pickle anything.  Wikipedia says:

Tsukemono (漬物, literally "pickled things") are Japanese preserved vegetables (usually pickled in salt, brine, or a bed of rice bran). They are served with rice as an okazu (side dish), with drinks as an otsumami (snack), as an accompaniment to or garnish for meals, and as a course in the kaiseki portion of a Japanese tea ceremony.

Seems like for "Japan week" he could suck it up.

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dleighg
dleighg

did anyone else think it odd that so many bakers didn't know what a "crescent" is? I mean, they've heard of a crescent moon, right? Or a crescent (croissant) roll, since we're talking baking!

Cactus
Cactus

Laura's steamed buns irked me. Those were NOT Japanese.  And Prue and Paul going on about the flavor as if China and Japan are interchangeable. Grrr. On a less annoyed note - can you imagine what

ElectricBoogaloo
ElectricBoogaloo

Now I wish someone had gone the way of the companies that sell unlicensed versions of trademarked characters for Halloween costumes. "This isn't Hello Kitty. This is Friendly Greetings Cat."

Irlandesa

Irlandesa

34 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I can't think of an example - ever - where someone was booted just because a judge didn't like an ingredient they used. I can think of plenty of examples of one or the other judge saying they didn't like the flavour of a certain ingredient, but still offering valid criticism.

But when you ask two people to judge your food, you're asking for a subjective assessment. If they really hate what it tastes like, it doesn't matter if you or your friends love it, it doesn't matter if 90% of the world would love it, the people who are judging it didn't.

Right.  Take salt, for example.  There are people who who are more sensitive to the taste of salt based on simple genetics and what you've trained your palette to accept.  For instance, I lived in another city for a while where restaurants seemed to add more salt to the foods than I normally do.

It's why you can have Paul saying it's lacking seasoning salt while Prue thinks it's perfect.

28 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Exactly my point. If a judge is predetermined to hate what you make based on an ingredient, you should at least have fair warning so as not to include it.

Honestly, I think most judges are more careful when they taste an ingredient they hate because they know they hate it and are afraid of being unfair. 

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Adiba

Adiba

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

The gherkins I buy are small dill pickles.  I don't remember seeing any sweet pickles called gherkins. For me they are preferable to large dill pickles because they are crisp.

You can get sweet or tart gherkins (like cornichons). My grandmother used to put out sweet gherkins with ham and cheese as an appetizer, but one could use tart or dill gherkins if they didn’t like sweet.
If Paul’s aversion to gherkins was stated well in advance so that a baker had time to request another ingredient, then I think that’s fair— but not the day or minute the challenge starts.

And imo, you don’t get to request a plain burger as a judge and then complain the dish is too dry. In that case, just judge the bake/ steam and taste of the bun.

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sharifa70

sharifa70

16 hours ago, leighdear said:

80's teen here too.  We baked a lot of stuff.  Bundt cakes were BIG, and you can't find a mix today to save your life, but most of of our moms still have their Bundt pans. Actually, I have my mom's Bundt pan. 

I made a Bundt cake from scratch three weeks ago! Apple cider cake with grated apples. It was delicious. Had to freeze most of it. Recently thawed a piece and drizzled warm (homemade) caramel over it and it was amazing. I’m still feeling kind of smug; my bakes can be hit or miss sometimes. Now I’m off to watch the engagement party scene from My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

13 hours ago, chaifan said:

I'm a cheesecake purist - give me a slice of traditional NY style cheesecake, and that's all I need. 

I’m right there with you most of the time. When I was a kid I hated cheesecake until my dad made his first one (in the 80’s). His cheesecakes are legendary. He *does* do a pretty amazing one for Christmas dinner that involves a very light layer of good-quality apple butter on the bottom crust, and very thinly-sliced apples on top of that before he pours the batter over. The apple butter infuses the cake with a very subtle flavor, and I’m telling you, I’ve never been so happy that my dad discovered his love of cooking when he picked up that cheesecake pamphlet. 

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I remember my mom steaming stuff by putting water in a large pot and then setting a very shallow bowl inside

Ha! I fear that method after my dad and I ended up cleaning a gallon of clam chowder, milk, and shattered pyrex off the stove when he tried to improvise a double boiler.

1 hour ago, Brookside said:

(Mary/marry/merry anyone?)

All one sound to me.

1 hour ago, Brookside said:

Back to the show, when Laura was crying, it struck me that we don't see tears much on GBBO.

I thought the same thing.

I read an article a few years ago that said Mel and Sue always ran interference when a contestant cried; they’d ruin the shots by swearing or doing other things to make the footage unsuitable for airing. I thought that was pretty badass of them.

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marinite

marinite

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Honestly, this is pretty par for the course in my experience with watching British cooking shows. No matter how simple a word is in another language, the British pronunciation is usually as far from the original as possible. I mean, even simple words like taco and pasta. It's like they go out of their way to make sure it's not pronounced the same as in the native language.

I have noticed the same thing. I loved watching the Two Fat Ladies series and it cracked me up that Clarissa pronounced the “j” in jalapeño as hard, like jail, and disregarded the tilde, so it ended as “peeno.” Heh.

I enjoyed this week though the technical was vomit-inducing for me. It didn’t look appealing and I hate white chocolate and also Matcha. It looked like something out of a 1950s bizarre party cookbook where they used wieners and Jell-O together .

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Kromm

Kromm

(edited)
2 hours ago, chaifan said:

A few seasons ago the bakers made pita bread.  In America, pita is pronounced Pee-tah, hard e, like Peter.  But the Brits say Pit-ah.  Soft i, as in "mosh pit" or "pit helmet".  So they kept saying pitah, and I had no idea what the challenge was until I saw the end result.  And then I was all oooohh, Pita bread!  I'm pretty sure the American pronunciation is closer to correct than the British one.

The Greeks say Pee-tah.  

https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/greek-word-for-30ef03f5156b84eb176139be8aef8132afc1f28e.html

Edited by Kromm
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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

6 hours ago, Brookside said:

There is no single "authentic" pronunciation for the word pasta.  Neither is there for taco. 

Pasta is an Italian word. Taco is Mexican. For me, the authentic pronunciation comes from the country of origin. That's why the British pronunciation of these words is so grating to my ears. I actually don't mind the sound of nails on a chalkboard, but hearing taco pronounced with a short A makes me cringe every time because it sounds so wrong to my ears.

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

Back when Mel & Sue were on, someone said in an interview that if a baker started crying they would just start swearing up a storm.  It ruined the footage so it couldn't be used. 

They also used to sing more current songs that they knew the show wouldn't pay licensing fees for (as opposed to songs in the public domain that are free) for the same reason.

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

8 minutes ago, dleighg said:

thanks! I've never heard any one say taco as in "bath." Guess I'm lucky!

Ha, count yourself lucky! The first time I heard a person pronounce it that way (it was definitely on a British cooking show but I can't remember which one now), it was like a record needle scratch in my brain. If you want to subject yourself to it, this guy says it around 1:35 (if you watch the entire video, feel free to cringe at Oaxaca being spelled phonetically as Wahaca):

ETA: Jamie Oliver saying it:

Some fancy chef saying it:

ETA 2: I grew up in San Diego so fish tacos and shrimp tacos are totally regular things to me, but for years people from outside of southern California who weren't familiar with Baja cuisine were SO GROSSED OUT by the idea of fish tacos. They would ask if it was just a frozen fish stick inside a tortilla or if it was a whole fish slapped onto a tortilla with the fish head sticking out of one end and the tail sticking out of the other end. It both cracks me up and warms my heart that mainstream and high end chefs are now making fish tacos and it's no longer considered weird. There were two chains in San Diego that specialized in fish tacos (in addition to all the mom and pop taco places that sold them): Rubio's and Fins. These two chains had completely opposite philosophies. The Fins owners said they never wanted to get so big that they couldn't personally handle the business. At their height, they had four locations. It was not uncommon to see the owners behind the counter. The owner of Rubio's said that his goal was to expand so much that you could get a fish taco anywhere in the world. I knew he was getting there when I went to Colorado in 2001 and there was a Rubio's in Denver!

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AnnaBaptist

AnnaBaptist

Count me in as another one who was cringing at the way they pronounced Japanese. I am half Japanese, and I truly believe that Japanese is one of the easier languages to pronounce, so I was appalled at how they mangled the language. It was almost as though they were purposely trying to pronounce Japanese incorrectly, which makes me inclined to believe what ElectricBoogaloo said above. The worst was the way Pru pronounced "geisha". (shudder)

Although not everything was authentic Japanese, I enjoyed the three challenges, and I thought they did a very good job overall. Now I want to go back to Japan. Darned covid.

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Yajmele

Yajmele

I was very fascinated to see the steamed bun signature.  I can’t say the technical was anything I’d go seeking out, like the chocolate babka, but it was interesting all the same. 
 

The showstopper, I felt was a bit of a cop-out. I think this could have been an amazing opportunity to have the bakers stretch themselves with something they didn’t have as much familiarity with.  Instead we get “Kawaii cakes.”  This challenge was the equivalent of traveling to somewhere like a resort area or a tourist trap out of the country.  You’re excited to try some local cuisine near where you’re at, but you end up getting something seemingly generic made to sell to the tourists.  Not the worst thing, but disappointing. 

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MerBearHou

MerBearHou

On 11/1/2020 at 11:27 AM, chaifan said:

Back when Mel & Sue were on, someone said in an interview that if a baker started crying they would just start swearing up a storm.  It ruined the footage so it couldn't be used. 

I am in the Mel & Sue camp -- the minute someone starts crying on a baking / cooking show, I get so mad at the cryer!  I know I sound like a cold fish, but it always feels manipulative to me.  The cryer is NEVER voted off on the night of the tears.  Someone who may have been just as frustrated or disappointed soldiers on without tears and gets eliminated.  Bugs me!

dgpolo

dgpolo

2 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

I am in the Mel & Sue camp -- the minute someone starts crying on a baking / cooking show, I get so mad at the cryer!  I know I sound like a cold fish, but it always feels manipulative to me. 

I don't think you are understanding at all what Mel & Sue were doing. They were so -Sympathetic- to the person crying they kept them from 'prying eyes' until they could get themselves under control. They did NOT think the cryer was manipulative, only someone who deserves privacy.

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MerBearHou

MerBearHou

2 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

I don't think you are understanding at all what Mel & Sue were doing. They were so -Sympathetic- to the person crying they kept them from 'prying eyes' until they could get themselves under control. They did NOT think the cryer was manipulative, only someone who deserves privacy.

Ahhh interesting... they're nicer than I am!

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HurricaneVal

HurricaneVal

I, too, was a little weirded out over the seeming cultural expansion from "Japanese" to "anything remotely Asian" in the signature challenge.  The kawaii challenge with the cute anime figures seemed very Japanese though, so that was appropriate.

I do love a good steamed bun.  I am in search of the perfect bao of my childhood.  My next door neighbor used to take me to her mom's house in Chinatown (renamed to The International District these days) and her mom, this wizened old Chinese lady, would hand me a bao that was the perfect sweet/savory barbeque pork filling as soon as I walked in the door.  Always amazing, and I have never found one as good.  I'm still looking, though.  Hers were always very plain and uniform looking on the outside, all pillowy plump porky goodness!  Gawd, I can still feel their slight squishiness in my hand, and the somewhat resilient bounce of the first bite...

I'm squarely on the dill pickle side of the pickle fight.  I despise sweet pickles and sweet pickle relish, but I love sour dill pickles.  You like what you like, but it does put some risks into the judging.  Yes, judges have personal preferences and like it or not, that's going to color their judging.  If both baker A and B had perfect bakes with exquisite decorations and were neck-and-neck on those qualities, but baker B's dish had anise in it, and Judge B loathes anise, then Judge B is going to be terribly prejudiced on one aspect of the dish.  This can also work in your favor, as we saw last week with the key lime bake from Laura and Paul's enthusiasm for the flavor.

Poor Hermine, I think she is a far more classic French pastry person and maybe unable to make a cartoon pastry.  She totally missed the brief, and didn't take a hint from what the other bakers were putting together.  I do like her, and she seems to bake good stuff, but when Paul called her one of the more consistent bakers of the lot, I'm not sure she took that as the compliment as it was intended.  Last week she was very close to getting star baker, and I thought this was Paul's way to let her know she was always high in the judging.  Then as the episode went on, I started to worry that scene might have been foreshadowing a Hermine farewell.  Her showstopper cake was beautiful, but not kawaii-cute.

Next week is 80's week.  I'm less concerned about the bakes than I am what Noel and Pru might wear....

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Ms Lark

Ms Lark

(edited)
On 11/1/2020 at 11:14 AM, Brookside said:

(Mary/marry/merry anyone?)

Three slightly different pronunciations for me, although that doesn't hold true for everyone! May-ri was feeling meh-ri because she would soon mah-ri.

Sweet gherkins and relish. A nice dill spear with a good ruben! They all have their place.

Edited by Ms Lark
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chaifan

chaifan

Does anyone know how far in advance the bakers are notified of the weekly challenges?  I never really thought of it before, but I'd guess most home bakers haven't experimented with steamed buns or cute Japanese anime cakes, and these are things that would have had to be researched and tested quite a bit before the competition.  So what's the lead time on this? 

ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

Does anyone know how far in advance the bakers are notified of the weekly challenges?  I never really thought of it before, but I'd guess most home bakers haven't experimented with steamed buns or cute Japanese anime cakes, and these are things that would have had to be researched and tested quite a bit before the competition.  So what's the lead time on this? 

 

1 hour ago, theatremouse said:

I am under the impression they get all the (not Technical) briefs before filming begins, basically as soon as they're confirmed for the show. I have no idea how long a lead that is, but they know them all up front, just not when each will happen.

I remember ages ago there were a few articles/interviews where it was stated that the bakers are told the weekly themes and the accompanying signature/showstopper assignments well in advance (definitely before they show up to the tent for the first time). This gives them time to research the specific food/dish/ingredient for the challenges (like, say, a pasty) and potentially practice ahead of time. Before they appear on the show, the bakers must submit their recipes and their list of ingredients so that production has time to procure everything they need.

7 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

I, too, was a little weirded out over the seeming cultural expansion from "Japanese" to "anything remotely Asian" in the signature challenge. 

My understanding was that the Japanese aspect of the signature challenge was the bun (although bao originated in China, they're common in Japan) but that the fillings could be anything they wanted (Japanese or otherwise).

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Kiddvideo

Kiddvideo

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My understanding was that the Japanese aspect of the signature challenge was the bun (although bao originated in China, they're common in Japan) but that the fillings could be anything they wanted (Japanese or otherwise).

The Cornish pasty is a recent example in my mind. The dough and crimps were the challenge criteria more than the ingredients in the filling. Linda’s had great flavor, but the lack of crimps on her triangle made it a samosa.

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HurricaneVal

HurricaneVal

14 hours ago, leighdear said:

Hate to break it to ya, but Pru's necklaces and Noels wild sweaters are already smack dab RIGHT in the middle of 80's style!!   *LOL*

That's exactly what I'm afraid of......  I think maybe they're going to go full on Flock of Seagulls.  Or they could play against type and put Noel as David Bowie "The Gentleman" look.  That would turn the tables!  And I want to see the new guy go full Michael Jackson in tight red leather, but no wig.  Or the aforementioned Flock of Seagulls wig with the Michael Jackson suit.  The possibilities are endless.....and frightening!

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janie jones

janie jones

On 11/1/2020 at 4:31 AM, Danny Franks said:

I disagree. It's on the contestants to craft the recipe they want to make and run the risk of the judges not liking it. We've seen frequently on the show that the judges will say they didn't like the taste of something, but can appreciate the baking talent. Flavour is always going to be subjective, that's just part of the competition. He could have said nothing about the gherkins then complained afterwards but apparently dislikes them strongly enough to ask they not be included, which is the first time I can recall him ever doing that.

I don't recall what happened other times bakers were using ingredients he didn't care for, but omitting a pickle is a feasible request, as opposed to telling someone who's making peanut butter cookies to make him one that doesn't have peanut butter in it.

On 11/1/2020 at 5:04 AM, Ms Lark said:

and

Oh, gods, I know! I looked up the phenomenon once since I was curious. A large majority seems to think it's because the British believe their pronunciations are correct and only proper English pronunciations are acceptable. I think it's sort of a carryover from Colonialism. I don't know, makes me want to slap them. Sorta, I'm not really violent.

In British people's defense, plenty of other languages make no major attempt to preserve a word's original pronunciation when it gets borrowed from another language, and instead follow their language's own pronunciation rules and/or follow the spelling/pronunciation rules of their own language. The reason it's remarkable that British people do that is because English speakers in other countries don't. Cross-linguistically, it's pretty normal.

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sharifa70

sharifa70

1 hour ago, janie jones said:

In British people's defense, plenty of other languages make no major attempt to preserve a word's original pronunciation when it gets borrowed from another language, and instead follow their language's own pronunciation rules and/or follow the spelling/pronunciation rules of their own language.

I just had a flashback to my first trip to Paris, when I was berated by a waiter for asking if I could have an order of salsa as well as a side of guacamole with chips (quick backstory: American here. When I travel overseas I always get HUGE cravings for chicken enchiladas. I don’t know why, because my cravings at home are pretty much “hey, Mexican food sounds good tonight” every few weeks, but there you go. This cafe had chips + salsa on the menu as well as chips + guacamole. All I wanted was chips, salsa, and guacamole and I would have happily paid extra). The waiter would not stop going on about how I could have chips and salsa OR chips and “GWAY-cuh-mohl,” but not both. Over and over he said “GWAY-cuh-mohl” until I didn’t know whether to kick him for not dropping it or start giggling. 

I’m not usually bothered by most British pronunciations, but then I don’t speak Japanese and have no idea how much the words were butchered. I guess I’m willing to give them a pass because as much as I try, I have difficulties with certain non-English words even when I’ve studied the language.

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ABay

ABay

There was an episode of Sherlock Holmes, the one with Jeremy Brett, where everyone kept talking about someone name GAHseeah and it took me half the episode to realize they were trying to say Garcia. A dropped R, fine--it's RP, but the emphasis on the first syllable really threw me.

Also, don't the British refer to the Italian city of Livorno as something not at all like Livorno?

You guys talk funny is what I'm saying.]

I kid! I kid because I love.

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Crs97

Crs97

Husband was watching an old interview with Ruth Bader Ginsburg (sob!) and Antonin Scalia.  At one point, Justice Scalia mentioned Bombay, and Justice Ginsburg quietly corrected him.  Of course, he made a big deal about how there was an English word for the place and he wasn’t going to bother learning the “other” pronunciation when the English word was just fine.  I found myself hoping that for the rest of his life, she called him Anthony.

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

8 hours ago, ABay said:

There was an episode of Sherlock Holmes, the one with Jeremy Brett, where everyone kept talking about someone name GAHseeah and it took me half the episode to realize they were trying to say Garcia. A dropped R, fine--it's RP, but the emphasis on the first syllable really threw me.

Also, don't the British refer to the Italian city of Livorno as something not at all like Livorno?

You guys talk funny is what I'm saying.]

I kid! I kid because I love.

I was confused when I started watching Outlander because everyone kept pronouncing the main character's last name as Beecham and I later learned that her last name was actually Beauchamp. At least with a word like taco you can try to argue that the British are ignoring the original pronunciation in favor of the way it looks like it would be pronounced in British English, but I don't know how anyone looks at Beauchamp and decides to say Beecham.

Coincidentally, I just heard a British person say the word macramé for the first time last night and I was gobsmacked.

Anyway, the GBBO website finally published Mark's exit interview - better late than never!

AZChristian

AZChristian

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was confused when I started watching Outlander because everyone kept pronouncing the main character's last name as Beecham and I later learned that her last name was actually Beauchamp. At least with a word like taco you can try to argue that the British are ignoring the original pronunciation in favor of the way it looks like it would be pronounced in British English, but I don't know how anyone looks at Beauchamp and decides to say Beecham.

I found this on a website of people whose names are a frustration to them and to others:

Having the surname "Beauchamp" - pronounced "Beecham" - has caused me no end of grief. My family and I are all used to spelling it out for people and correcting those who attempt to pronounce it in a French way. The name has been in England since around 1066 and the pronunciation has obviously changed since then, but I have had people argue with me, at length, that I pronounce my own surname wrong. My latest response is to tell them that if you ask a taxi driver to go to Beauchamp Place in London by pronouncing it in a French way, they won't have a clue where you mean. My family are descendants of the Beauchamp who was imprisoned in the Tower of London, and subsequently had the Tower named after him. I like it as a name - it's an interesting historical name, with a coat of arms and a motto which is always nice to have - but I do wish people would stop "correcting" me on how to pronounce it!

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

1 hour ago, debalex said:

I assumed Paul is allergic to pickles. Because I was struck my how carefully they made sure his was marked. I get an asthma attack from some pickles and would have been just as insistent.

That's what I was wondering because he has certainly eaten things he hasn't cared for before.  And sometimes people aren't overt with their sensitivities/allergies and say it's a preference if they know they're not going to die from it.  I remember a chef from another food show talking about how much he hated a fruit but later revealed he was allergic to it.  It's not that he'd die if he ate it but he would definitely have physical discomfort. 

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Quilt Fairy

Quilt Fairy

9 hours ago, AZChristian said:
14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was confused when I started watching Outlander because everyone kept pronouncing the main character's last name as Beecham and I later learned that her last name was actually Beauchamp. At least with a word like taco you can try to argue that the British are ignoring the original pronunciation in favor of the way it looks like it would be pronounced in British English, but I don't know how anyone looks at Beauchamp and decides to say Beecham.

I found this on a website of people whose names are a frustration to them and to others:

Having the surname "Beauchamp" - pronounced "Beecham" - has caused me no end of grief. My family and I are all used to spelling it out for people and correcting those who attempt to pronounce it in a French way. The name has been in England since around 1066 and the pronunciation has obviously changed since then, but I have had people argue with me, at length, that I pronounce my own surname wrong. My latest response is to tell them that if you ask a taxi driver to go to Beauchamp Place in London by pronouncing it in a French way, they won't have a clue where you mean. My family are descendants of the Beauchamp who was imprisoned in the Tower of London, and subsequently had the Tower named after him. I like it as a name - it's an interesting historical name, with a coat of arms and a motto which is always nice to have - but I do wish people would stop "correcting" me on how to pronounce it!

Not to get totally off the topic, but don't forget that in Outlander, Clare was specifically asked by The Mackenzie why she pronounced her name the English way rather than the French way. It was a mark against her that she did this. 

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