S05.E01: Forty: Part One/S05.E02: Forty: Part Two

[tennisgurl]

The show really needs to freshen up its flashbacks, I feel like we are really starting to repeat the same eras and character beats over and over again. Some of that is probably to keep Jack around, but even then I think we could do more than the Pearson Family Greatest Hits. I get why they went back to the day the Pearson kids were all born for this episode, with it being their birthday and the mom twist, but I think they need to either get more creative about what flashbacks we see, or lay off the flashbacks in general.

I mean, we aren't quite in "what do Jacks tattoos mean?" level of flashback pointlessness yet, but we are heading in that direction...

Edited October 28, 2020 by tennisgurl

[ams1001]

46 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

But does he have more insurance?

I guarantee Randall the Responsible has way more insurance than either of his siblings. 😉 

38 minutes ago, SteveR405 said:

That is not true. Randall first texted Kevin to congratulate him. Initially, Kevin wrote that he was glad to hear from Randall, but deleted the text and simply replied a cold "thanks". Randall was disappointed in the reply.

True, but Randall's text was also initially more excited before he scaled it back.

[ChicksDigScars]

Okay, so are Madison and Kevin's twins and Toby and Kate's adopted baby going to be born on the same day and be The Big Three 2.0?

I wouldn't put it past the writers. 

 

[Scarlett45]

47 minutes ago, Ana88 said:

Also I think it was way weird how they handled Kevin's twins news. It felt so fake. I'm confused - in the fast forward there was only a boy.

No there was a boy and a girl child in the flash forward.

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm three weeks older than the Big 3, and I definitely remember the Challenger explosion.  We had a snow day in the Cleveland suburb where I was living, my dad was home as well, and he called my older brother and myself into the family room to watch the Challenger take off.  I remember him being kinda excited to watch this with his kids because he had been in Florida for work and seen a previous space shuttle launch live.  And, welp, that did not go as planned.  I also remember the earthquake that happened later that week.  

I’m the same age too. I definitely remember it. It was a huge deal. I also have vivid memories of the Punky Brewster episode about it. I don’t know what that says about me!

I think Kevin even mentioned it. I vaguely remember an episode where he talked about being traumatized by watching it at school.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, anniebird said:

No kidding - it was 2 minutes of show and 5 minutes of commercials.

There were 24 minutes of commercials over 8 commercial breaks, most of which were in the second half. Oy.

I wonder about Toby & Kate getting a call so quickly (shades of Monica and Chandler, lol). I know there are lists a mile long, but isn't it the birth mother's choice. I mean, I can't imagine how they would be at the top of anyone's list, but still...  Do they only get shown the profiles of the people waiting the longest? No real idea how that works in 2020.

I suspect the reason for Laurel being alive in the flashback is not to bring her into Randall's present-day life, but rather that she is dead now, but he has half-siblings. I'd lay odds on said sibling being in need of 'saving' so that St. Randall can ride to the rescue and have a 'real' sibling who 'really' loves and deserves him.

[PRgal]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

There were 24 minutes of commercials over 8 commercial breaks, most of which were in the second half. Oy.

I wonder about Toby & Kate getting a call so quickly (shades of Monica and Chandler, lol). I know there are lists a mile long, but isn't it the birth mother's choice. I mean, I can't imagine how they would be at the top of anyone's list, but still...  Do they only get shown the profiles of the people waiting the longest? No real idea how that works in 2020.

I suspect the reason for Laurel being alive in the flashback is not to bring her into Randall's present-day life, but rather that she is dead now, but he has half-siblings. I'd lay odds on said sibling being in need of 'saving' so that St. Randall can ride to the rescue and have a 'real' sibling who 'really' loves and deserves him.

Yeah, it's the birth mother's choice (in private adoptions).  We considered domestic ourselves, but we weren't exactly a top choice for a lot of birth parents either (unfamiliarity with cultures can pose a problem, I think), which was why we first considered international before the surrogacy route.  

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, SteveR405 said:

That is not true. Randall first texted Kevin to congratulate him. Initially, Kevin wrote that he was glad to hear from Randall, but deleted the text and simply replied a cold "thanks". Randall was disappointed in the reply.

Randall also initally had a more friendly congrats before he went with an equally cold text message (with no exclamation marks either!) Both of them are still too stubborn to apologize to each other so it's on both of them still. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Randall also initally had a more friendly congrats before he went with an equally cold text message (with no exclamation marks either!) Both of them are still too stubborn to apologize to each other so it's on both of them still. 

That did feel very true to life.  No one wants to be the first to apologize especially when both of them went as low as they did.  

[chitowngirl]

When he finds Laurel (you know that he will) she might want nothing to do with him. And if she was still living in near poverty, Randall might realize that he himself has privileges that he never would have had.

[Madison59]

Was so looking forward to this season and must say it was a let down.  Randall, and his lack of gratitude and perpetual state of angst is exhausting.  Are we to feel despair for him, being raised in a loving home and not by his drug addicted, dysfunctional biological family?  Is it saddening he went to a private school specialized for his math skills instead of lost in the public school system?  When he leaves his family, his siblings who love him, (after he grandiosely discovers the reason for his bonus mother's behavior) to try to identify with the current climate, I found repugnant.  Randall is in the position to make a difference in his community and one thing lacking (Deja) is a solid family unit.  Yet, he rejects his.  smh

[Madison59]

36 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That did feel very true to life.  No one wants to be the first to apologize especially when both of them went as low as they did.  

It may be difficult for both to apologize as, in some form or another, they feel their comments were true. 

[Jax7917]

Thinking Randall’s therapist will be his half - sibling and they’ll discover the connection ? That or the therapist will encourage him to find blood relatives on one of those ancestry websites ., and lo and behold , he’ll find his mom . 
 

I get that they want to keep Jack on the show , I really do .. but my goodness it’s like watching the same flashbacks on repeat for 5 seasons . They need to get creative with including him because it’s getting redundant . And I know it’s not just specific to Jack , but he’s alwayssss moping or praising Rebecca or both . Randall definitely got that gene from him . 

[cardigirl]

Everyone is talking about Randall's mother being alive and the "twist" that it was and whether or not the show can carry it off well, but all I was thinking during that whole storyline, was how incredibly sad I was for all three of them.  For the young mother who was hopeful of building a life clean from drugs and in a bigger apartment and William, who was so in love with her and the joy of a family that was just within his reach, and the young baby who was not going to get to know them until much much later. I was completely and utterly heartbroken over that story. 

Drugs being pumped into the projects was a real thing.  No real help given to POC to get off of heroin/crack/whatever was a real thing. The despair of poverty is a real thing.  That young mother, when she recovers, waking up and finding William and her baby gone may well spiral down into complete and utter hopelessness. William didn't go home, he just stayed on the bus.  He thought she was dead.  He wouldn't be looking for her. It was tragic. I couldn't stop crying for them.   

(Read Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi) 

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Randall definitely got that gene from him . 

Horizontal gene transfer?

[MBayGal]

14 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I am really enjoying Kate’s growth. 

Uh, I think Chrissy would do well to shrink quite a bit. Yeah, I know that’s not the growth you meant.

 Adoption Agency: We found a couple who really, really wants a new baby.  He does something in IT.  She’s a stay-at-home mom.  She’s 40 and grossly, morbidly obese. Oh, they already have a blind toddler.  Sound good?

PG Girl:  Maybe there might be someone younger and healthier, without a special needs child already?

AA:  Your baby’s uncle would be Kevin Pearson

PG Girl: Well then alrighty!!!

[Scarlett45]

7 minutes ago, Madison59 said:

It may be difficult for both to apologize as, in some form or another, they feel their comments were true. 

I also think it's difficult for both to apologize for that reason, and because they know how deeply they hurt the other person with their statements. Truth hurts more than lies, and how do they work together to have some kind of relationship knowing what they have both admitted out loud. Dont ask me. 

[anniebird]

I'm an old White woman and I've always considered myself to be super liberal but I'm telling you the whole George Floyd thing was a wake up call for me. I had more honest conversations with my African-American friends than I'd ever had before. If it affected me this way, I can only imagine how it would affect a Black adult male who had been raised in a White family. I thought the show did a pretty good job addressing it from Randall's viewpoint.

[SunnyBeBe]

3 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Uh, I think Chrissy would do well to shrink quite a bit. Yeah, I know that’s not the growth you meant.

 Adoption Agency: We found a couple who really, really wants a new baby.  He does something in IT.  She’s a stay-at-home mom.  She’s 40 and grossly, morbidly obese. Oh, they already have a blind toddler.  Sound good?

PG Girl:  Maybe there might be someone younger and healthier, without a special needs child already?

AA:  Your baby’s uncle would be Kevin Pearson

PG Girl: Well then alrighty!!!

I agree.  I'm curious as to how Dad's cardiac history and mother's morbid obesity would stand out as a plus for a perspective adoptive parent. Wouldn't their health concern a bio mother? And, wouldn't she be concerned that the child who is visually impaired might take up a lot of the parent's time, and it wouldn't be focused on the adopted child as much?  

[KLovestoShop]

Maybe when Randall is agonizing over his life, he should look back and see how his life would have been being brought up by two addicts?  Living in rat holes or being shut in the system of terrible foster homes. But no, maybe he would have preferred that to his adopted white family who tried to do right by him (remember he was brought up in the 1970’s which was a very different time for the races), and where he made it to living in a huge house and driving $120,000 Mercedes——-which he gave up due to what I perceived as black guilt.  IMHO, Randall is blaming his family for not crawling into his skin and knowing everything about being black in America.  There’s absolutely no way for any Caucasian to know 100% about being black, just like there’s no way for anyone to know how it feels to be totally disabled like me, and basically not having any control of my legs. 

[KLovestoShop]

8 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree.  I'm curious as to how Dad's cardiac history and mother's morbid obesity would stand out as a plus for a perspective adoptive parent. Wouldn't their health concern a bio mother? And, wouldn't she be concerned that the child who is visually impaired might take up a lot of the parent's time, and it wouldn't be focused on the adopted child as much?  

I have the feeling this young girl is going to take every cent they give her and then she’ll run away with the baby and con another couple.  I bet she’s a grifter.  I know I would think three times before considering Kate and Toby.  Just his mental health alone sends red flags. 

[greeneyedscorpio]

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

The doctor said she only saw one heartbeat on the abdominal ultrasound, but that she needed to do a vaginal ultrasound to confirm. Then she went to get the equipment for the vaginal ultrasound, came back, performed the ultrasound, and confirmed that there were two heartbeats. I don't think she did anything wrong. One thing that wasn't mentioned is that a woman needs to have a full bladder for a vaginal ultrasound, so the doctor probably gave Madison time to chug some water and wait for her bladder to fill up. 

The way she handled the ultrasounds was fine. It was the comment at the end that got to me. It pissed me off because it triggered me. I've been in the situation (twice) where the doctor couldn't find a heartbeat and went and got the u/s equipment.  Both times, my babies had died, but if they hadn't and he'd have said that to me, it would've been upsetting.  It almost felt like to me the doctor was acting put off that they had wasted her time when everything was ok.  Like if the baby had died, then the "excitement" would have been warranted.  But like I said, I was triggered by it with sad memories flooding over me, so maybe I over-reacted?  I cry at every scene after Rebecca loses Kyle too, due to my past, and it's been a long time ago.  Our perspectives really are colored by our life experiences, aren't they?  

Edited October 28, 2020 by greeneyedscorpio

[himela]

Too much "the Bold and the Beautiful" going on here. I have flashbacks from 30 years ago when Caroline showed up after dying in an accident (?) (I was too young to remember exactly what it was). I thought it was stupid then, I think it's ridiculous now. Stop bringing back the dead!

I'm sorry to say but in this show I find myself to care more than anything else about Kate's story line and once again I find it unrealistic. I mean, she got pregnant, had a baby, and now they just found someone to give them their baby? Who in their right minds would give a newborn to a 40 years old couple with a medically obese mother who has trouble walking the kid to the park? And a couple who also already have a baby of their own? I mean, who believes that?

I like the effort from the writers but I'm sick of seeing Jack and William in the past. I'm SICK of Jack. Let him go. Or just resurrect him and make him live in the present. Enough with the past already.

[cardigirl]

1 minute ago, KLovestoShop said:

Maybe when Randall is agonizing over his life, he should look back and see how his life would have been being brought up by two addicts?  Living in rat holes or being shut in the system of terrible foster homes. But no, maybe he would have preferred that to his adopted white family who tried to do right by him (remember he was brought up in the 1970’s which was a very different time for the races), and where he made it to living in a huge house and driving $120,000 Mercedes——-which he gave up due to what I perceived as black guilt.  IMHO, Randall is blaming his family for not crawling into his skin and knowing everything about being black in America.  There’s absolutely no way for any Caucasian to know 100% about being black, just like there’s no way for anyone to know how it feels to be totally disabled like me, and basically not having any control of my legs. 

Yanno, I don't think Randall denies or is ungrateful for anything that his parents gave him. I think he's in a tough spot with his siblings because of him wanting to control Rebecca's situation because he thinks he sees it more clearly than they do, and he did an unforgiveable thing last season by blackmailing with her guilt over keeping him from William and William from him into doing what Randall thought was best.  They addressed that when he apologized to her upstairs at the cabin.

When Kate tried to get Randall to stay for the birthday celebration, he told her he loved her, but that he couldn't help her feel better. I think a lot of black people are feeling that way right now. They've been dealing with racism, overt and not overt, all of their lives, but now it's come to the forefront and everyone wants to talk about it and DO SOMETHING and "tell me how to help you," and, like he said, he's just sad. He's tired and he's sad. 

And we're all like, "Why that ungrateful ?#$&. He was raised by a solid, middle class WHITE family, he should be HAPPY!  What the hell?"  It doesn't work like that. 

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, KLovestoShop said:

I have the feeling this young girl is going to take every cent they give her and then she’ll run away with the baby and con another couple.  I bet she’s a grifter.  I know I would think three times before considering Kate and Toby.  Just his mental health alone sends red flags. 

We know based on the flash forward that Kate/Toby do end up adopting a little girl, but I can 100% see this birth mom being a gifter, leading on several couples for illegal cash "gifts" aka payment for the baby.

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

The way she handled the ultrasounds was fine. It was the comment at the end that got to me. It pissed me off because it triggered me. I've been in the situation (twice) where the doctor couldn't find a heartbeat and went and got the u/s equipment.  Both times, my babies had died, but if they hadn't and he'd have said that to me, it would've been upsetting.  It almost felt like to me the doctor was acting put off that they had wasted her time when everything was ok.  Like if the baby had died, then the "excitement" would have been warranted.  But like I said, I was triggered by it with sad memories flooding over me, so maybe I over-reacted?  I cry at every scene after Rebecca loses Kyle too, due to my past, and it's been a long time ago. 

That was an entirely unnecessary moment as well.  The show already established that Madison safely delivers twins who have both made appearances in the final flashforward of season 4.  That whole sequence of scenes is poor writing.  There were so many other ways to bond Kevin and Madison that do not involve triggering viewers.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, cardigirl said:

Yanno, I don't think Randall denies or is ungrateful for anything that his parents gave him. I think he's in a tough spot with his siblings because of him wanting to control Rebecca's situation because he thinks he sees it more clearly than they do, and he did an unforgiveable thing last season by blackmailing with her guilt over keeping him from William and William from him into doing what Randall thought was best.  They addressed that when he apologized to her upstairs at the cabin.

When Kate tried to get Randall to stay for the birthday celebration, he told her he loved her, but that he couldn't help her feel better. I think a lot of black people are feeling that way right now. They've been dealing with racism, overt and not overt, all of their lives, but now it's come to the forefront and everyone wants to talk about it and DO SOMETHING and "tell me how to help you," and, like he said, he's just sad. He's tired and he's sad. 

And we're all like, "Why that ungrateful ?#$&. He was raised by a solid, middle class WHITE family, he should be HAPPY!  What the hell?"  It doesn't work like that. 

So much this. Randall was so wrong to blackmail his mother. SO VERY VERY WRONG, that was the lowest of the low, and he needs to work on repairing that damage (he did start with the apology).

But everything else he did? He has a right to be tired. This pandemic has worn on us all for a variety of reasons- he wished his sister a Happy Birthday but he needed to just be with his family that year. I think ONE year of not doing the Big 3 traditional chant, especially with everything going on is understandable. He does NEED to be in therapy to deal with his anxiety, stress, so he can be a good husband to Beth (I can see that depression would kill his libido) and a father to the girls. 

Oh and make amends to Rebecca.....

then work on he and Kevin,

He and Kate are the strongest so I am putting them last. 

[Bulldog]

Several people have commented that the Pearsons as a family generally avoided talking about difficult or sensitive subjects.  I'm not entirely convinced that is true, but there is one thing I do know with absolute certainty. If young Kevin and young Randall had ever commented on young Kate's weight, Jack and Rebecca would have immediately chastised Kevin for bullying and picking on his sister and exalted Randall for showing concern over his sister's health issues.  

[Alice Mudgarden]

So much of the problem with Randall is his tone. The way he delivers his points is so sanctimonious.

Take the conversation with Kate. He had a point, but his approach to explaining it was just awful, imo. There were other ways he could have voiced what he had been feeling without sounding haughty.

Though I understand why Randall did, if you bottle things up and make everyone around you think things are fine, then... they're probably going to think things are fine. Kate being unaware of what Randall was experiencing on the inside isn't 100% her fault, especially the years that they were kids. Randall chose, for whatever his reasons, not to discuss certain things about how he was feeling. Do I feel badly that's how he felt? Yes. Do I also think if he would have broached the subject in a different way, earlier than now, that maybe things wouldn't have built to this point? Yes. There are solutions besides "bottling it up" and "making my sister cry by giving a self-righteous speech".

Randall's entire approach could have been handled in a different manner and I think it would have come across much better. That's how I feel about Randall a lot of the time, though.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Alice Mudgarden

[MissLucas]

3 hours ago, SteveR405 said:

That is not true. Randall first texted Kevin to congratulate him. Initially, Kevin wrote that he was glad to hear from Randall, but deleted the text and simply replied a cold "thanks". Randall was disappointed in the reply.

Randall corrected his initial text too. He typed something about 'Dad' (couldn't read all of it) but then deleted that part. But yeah, he made the first step.

2 hours ago, deaja said:

What if Randall's bio mom turns out to be Deja's grandma that helped raised her and that means Deja is actually Randall's niece?  That would be nice and twisty.

Geez, don't give them ideas!

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

So much of the problem with Randall is his tone. The way he delivers his points is so sanctimonious.

Take the conversation with Kate. He had a point, but his approach to explaining it to Kate was just awful, imo. There were other ways he could have voiced what he had been feeling without sounding haughty.

Though I understand why Randall did, if you bottle things up and make everyone around you think things are fine, then... they're probably going to think things are fine. Kate being unaware of what Randall was experiencing on the inside isn't 100% her fault, especially the years that they were kids. Randall chose, for whatever his reasons, not discuss certain things about how he was feeling. Do I feel badly that's how he felt? Yes. Do I also think that if he would have broached the subject in a different way, earlier than now, that maybe things wouldn't have built to this point? Yes. There are solutions besides "bottling it up" and "making my sister cry by giving a put upon speech".

Randall's entire approach could have been handled in a different manner and I think it would have come across much better. That's how I feel about Randall a lot of the time, though.

I didn’t see Randall’s speech to Kate as haughty at all. I saw it as very matter of fact. 
 

I agree that Randall can be sanctimonious and self righteous- but that’s usually with Kevin. With Kate he is usually very sensitive and kind (I like their bond for the most part) 

I don’t think Randall’s speech made Kate cry. I think Kate just cried because she was stressed out, it was an awful day, Rebecca’s episode, the pandemic etc. I liked that she told Toby she just needed to sit with her feelings for a little while. 

[txhorns79]

13 minutes ago, himela said:

I like the effort from the writers but I'm sick of seeing Jack and William in the past. I'm SICK of Jack. Let him go. Or just resurrect him and make him live in the present. Enough with the past already.

Can you say long lost twin brother? 

 

35 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Thinking Randall’s therapist will be his half - sibling and they’ll discover the connection ? That or the therapist will encourage him to find blood relatives on one of those ancestry websites ., and lo and behold , he’ll find his mom . 

The way this show works, his therapist will be the daughter of a doctor or nurse who had some role in the coming together of the Big Three, which is the show's foundational moment from which all others spring. 

16 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

And we're all like, "Why that ungrateful ?#$&. He was raised by a solid, middle class WHITE family, he should be HAPPY!  What the hell?"  It doesn't work like that. 

For me, I've just been worn down by Randall's anxieties and issues.  Now he gets to have a whole new set of them, and it's just a lot.  That isn't to say the issues aren't real or serious, only that it would be nice if Randall could just be content for a while. 

[Jax7917]

3 minutes ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

So much of the problem with Randall is his tone. The way he delivers his points is so sanctimonious.

Take the conversation with Kate. He had a point, but his approach to explaining it was just awful, imo. There were other ways he could have voiced what he had been feeling without sounding haughty.

Though I understand why Randall did, if you bottle things up and make everyone around you think things are fine, then... they're probably going to think things are fine. Kate being unaware of what Randall was experiencing on the inside isn't 100% her fault, especially the years that they were kids. Randall chose, for whatever his reasons, not discuss certain things about how he was feeling. Do I feel badly that's how he felt? Yes. Do I also think that if he would have broached the subject in a different way, earlier than now, that maybe things wouldn't have built to this point? Yes. There are solutions besides "bottling it up" and "making my sister cry by giving a self-righteous speech".

Randall's entire approach could have been handled in a different manner and I think it would have come across much better. That's how I feel about Randall a lot of the time, though.

Completely agree . 
I also feel like if there was any family who talked about feelings on any level , about any topic , it’s the Pearson’s . For goodness sake , they don’t STOP talking about how they feel . It’s not that Randall doesn’t have valid feelings , but saying to Kate that she should have apologized a long time ago when other events involving black murders happened , seems like misplaced anger to me . It’s not Kate, Kevin or his parents fault that that happened . They have nothing to apologize for . 
I’m Jewish and have lost a lot of family in the Holocaust . I grew up in a very non - Jewish neighborhood and have been bullied for it so much over the years with so many anti Semitic remarks said to me and so many “ all Jews should die speeches . There have been many murders simply because the person was Jewish .  I empathize with how he feels , however I don’t agree with the blame every white person or in my case every non - Jewish person for things horrible people have said or done . Every person is an individual with individual feelings and actions . Kate didn’t deserve that particular Pearson speech and I don’t see why he thought she should feel bad . He has a great family who has been there for him through everything . If he felt a particular way , share it with them and let them help you .  

[SweetSable]

3 hours ago, tinderbox said:

Interesting that in the last 3 days I've watched two shows, TIU and Flesh and Blood on PBS, where in the final second of the episode a character within moments of death suddenly opens their eyes in a camera close up.  

 

 

But it's more interesting on Flesh and Blood.  I really hope they have a 2nd mini-season of that show.  I'm really done with dealing with the past so much on this show - I'm ready for it to just be present day and future.  

 

[Bulldog]

Also, want to give a quick shout out to Timothy Omundson, who, IMO, stole the show in his one brief scene with his reaction to Kate & Co's virtual hugs. 

[CrystalBlue]

11 hours ago, debraran said:

I see that, I work in a medical field, but people see them and talk to their kids about why someone is in a wheel chair etc. I do know they aren't given respect other than many parking spots when it comes to other accessibility. I had to fight for over a year for an automatic door for our patients.  Many don't think about chairs, another fight I lost, no arms to help people up, wider chairs, etc. But I keep trying.

In a perfect world, my mixed children and others can have good friends (as they have) and neighbors but you need to know that many wont see them that way. They will have a bias taught to them by others, sometimes very young. I'm sure some parents shield their kids from people who are different or handicapped and forget to use empathy for them to see what it's like with a disability. Many also teach how black children should be grateful to be middle class or not care about fairness if they are given a good job. Be grateful and shut up.  Why should Randall be grateful any more than any child adopted or fostered? He should just be loved.

I heard a parent say they didn't want my mixed twins over for a party at 4 because "I don't want my kids to think that is right" meaning black/white marriages.  I heard a parent say also "then don't invite mine"  Her daughter understood someone was judging my kids unfairly without a lot of explanation. I heard a kid in a grocery cart ahead of mine say my kids were dirty because of their tan and her mom didn't say, "no that's her skin color" so she kept letting her say it. My daughter looked confused, so I corrected her and got a look from Mom. When she walked away the cashier said to me, those things start planting the seed for later bigotry.  It doesn't matter how the bias is presented or with color or handicap, the ignoring it, makes it worse.

 

 

Oh my God!  Then the parent who said don't invite my kids because your kids would be there, is that right?

[BoogieBurns]

15 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

For the first time in awhile, I was on board with one of Randall’s tangents.  When everything went down, suddenly every white friend I’ve had in the past 34 years (spoiler alert: all of my friends are white) wanted to apologize for what was happening.  They wanted to let me know that they see me and that they’re here to listen and is there anything they can do?  But like Randall said, it became exhausting because this isn’t anything new. This has been happening for centuries. But you want to talk now? Now you see me when it’s suddenly trendy and the world is on fire? Randall shouldn’t have had to reassure Kate and help her process this now that she finally sees the issue. It’s not his job to let her know how she can help him or how she can feel less guilt.  The show nailed it with this one. I was also glad to see Kate take the time to reflect and really think about Randall’s words. 

I posted, "Y'all were ALL Kate in this scene this summer," on social media. Because yeah, they really wanted me comforting them that this stuff finally hurt their feelings. I like to remind them I've been upset since Rodney King and I was four when that happened. This ain't new. You don't get a "woke cookie," Kate.

[Adgirl]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Randall also initally had a more friendly congrats before he went with an equally cold text message (with no exclamation marks either!) Both of them are still too stubborn to apologize to each other so it's on both of them still. 

Why does Randall owe Kevin an apology? I started flipping because of all the commercials so I may have missed something. Telling someone you're sorry they're in your family is pretty brutal so just wondering what Randall said that was equally as brutal.

 

[nixgirl28]

50 minutes ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

The way she handled the ultrasounds was fine. It was the comment at the end that got to me. It pissed me off because it triggered me. I've been in the situation (twice) where the doctor couldn't find a heartbeat and went and got the u/s equipment.  Both times, my babies had died, but if they hadn't and he'd have said that to me, it would've been upsetting.  It almost felt like to me the doctor was acting put off that they had wasted her time when everything was ok.  Like if the baby had died, then the "excitement" would have been warranted.  But like I said, I was triggered by it with sad memories flooding over me, so maybe I over-reacted?  I cry at every scene after Rebecca loses Kyle too, due to my past, and it's been a long time ago.  Our perspectives really are colored by our life experiences, aren't they?  

I agree, i found her comment to be very insensitive. This couple thought one of their babies might have died, calling that any type of "excitement" was so bad. I've been there too, also with bad endings unfortunately, and it's scary and painful, it was almost like the ob was making a joke since it turned out ok. That scene was triggering for me too and I'm glad they didn't lose a baby, the episode was already such a downer, it would've been hard to keep watching the season.

[Alice Mudgarden]

32 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I didn’t see Randall’s speech to Kate as haughty at all. I saw it as very matter of fact. 
 

I agree that Randall can be sanctimonious and self righteous- but that’s usually with Kevin. With Kate he is usually very sensitive and kind (I like their bond for the most part) 

I don’t think Randall’s speech made Kate cry. I think Kate just cried because she was stressed out, it was an awful day, Rebecca’s episode, the pandemic etc. I liked that she told Toby she just needed to sit with her feelings for a little while. 

I agree with you, generally, on his relationship with Kate. I also agree that I liked that Kate told Toby she needed to sit with her feelings for a bit.

Personally, I do think his speech made her cry, but I don't discount the other things going on also being a factor. There's a lot they're all dealing with, which is actually another reason I think Randall's approach wasn't necessarily fair. Again, I do understand where he's coming from, but I also understand things from Kate's vantage point as well.

I guess what it comes down to for me is that Randall voicing his point is earned, but not how he voiced it.

[txhorns79]

17 minutes ago, Adgirl said:

Why does Randall owe Kevin an apology? I started flipping because of all the commercials so I may have missed something. Telling someone you're sorry they're in your family is pretty brutal so just wondering what Randall said that was equally as brutal.

I think Randall told Kevin that Jack died ashamed of him. 

[bybrandy]

4 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Not that they couldn't have been paying attention, but I'm not sure 5½-year olds would have been as aware of that as older kids (I was 10 and I barely remember if we were watching it in school...I think we were...?). Then again... it is Randall.

It was January so I was not quite 8 (8 is a big leap from 5.5) but I remember it.   It happened when we were at recess and the head of the school came running out yelling, "the challenger, exploded....", "The Challenger exploded" and then we watched it all day long at school and I remember wishing not at first but eventually that we could just watch something else or have real school because of how many times I watched the explosion over and over again.  The explosion is absolutely burned on my brain from watching it so many times that day.   And I remember Punky Brewster did a very special episode about it.   My parents were absolute news junkies so I remember very much the Boy In the Bubble as the first news story I got completely invested in.  I was in pre-school but there was another kid at school who was following it on the news and we discussed it every day like watercooler talk.

[Ohiopirate02]

33 minutes ago, Adgirl said:

Why does Randall owe Kevin an apology? I started flipping because of all the commercials so I may have missed something. Telling someone you're sorry they're in your family is pretty brutal so just wondering what Randall said that was equally as brutal.

 

Randall did use emotional blackmail to get Rebecca into that clinical trial.  Rebecca told the family at Jack's birthday party and Kevin knew that was not what Rebecca wanted.  Kevin confronted Randall, and shit hit the fan.  Both got in some low blows.

[mansonlamps]

14 hours ago, SadieT said:

I didn't mind the show incorporating real-world events into the story but to see Randall shut his very loving family out because they're not black and therefore don't understand his struggle was just a whole level of sad I did not need at this time. 

I'm kind of into the Kevin and Madison thing although I wish they had allowed them to come together slower. 

Overweight couples who aren't rich and famous face a lot of obstacles when adopting, many foreign adoptions even have BMI restrictions. I don't think there's any official regulations on domestic adoptions in America but it's very unlikely that your run-of-the-mill middle class overweight couple like Toby and Kate would be chosen so quickly.  

Kate is a little more than just overweight and Toby takes medication for depression,  let's put them first on the list for a healthy white infant who would be pursued by hundreds of couples!  Yeah,  that's realistic.   I mean if their last name was Pierson maybe,  but they don't even have that to make them soar to the top of the list. 

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, KLovestoShop said:

I have the feeling this young girl is going to take every cent they give her and then she’ll run away with the baby and con another couple.  I bet she’s a grifter.  I know I would think three times before considering Kate and Toby.  Just his mental health alone sends red flags. 

Didn't it say she was 33 on Kate's phone.  I thought that was a bit strange.  I mean my friends recently adopted the child of a birth mom who was 42 so it isn't unprecedented but it doesn't seem like Toby and Kate's birth mom is a teenage grifter. 

[Scarlett45]

47 minutes ago, Adgirl said:

Why does Randall owe Kevin an apology? I started flipping because of all the commercials so I may have missed something. Telling someone you're sorry they're in your family is pretty brutal so just wondering what Randall said that was equally as brutal.

 

Yes I absolutely believe Randall owes Kevin an apology. The whole fight started because Randall was emotionally blackmailing their mother, and Kevin called him out on it (which I thought was fair). Randall didnt even want to acknowledge his emotional blackmail and laid into Kevin for being a neglectful son and a selfish prick (which he has been in the past) and then he TOTALLY crossed the moral horizon and said that Jack died ashamed of Kevin. That was just uncalled for. Then Kevin said the worst day of his life was the day they brought Randall home.

 

 

1 minute ago, bybrandy said:

Didn't it say she was 33 on Kate's phone.  I thought that was a bit strange.  I mean my friends recently adopted the child of a birth mom who was 42 so it isn't unprecedented but it doesn't seem like Toby and Kate's birth mom is a teenage grifter. 

It did say she was 33. One doesn't have to be a teenager to be a grifter. And I would think an older Mom would be better at "grifting" especially if she had children she was raising and felt justified in doing this to provide for them.

59 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Also, want to give a quick shout out to Timothy Omundson, who, IMO, stole the show in his one brief scene with his reaction to Kate & Co's virtual hugs. 

Yes I was so glad to see him! And know he got paid for the episode.

[bybrandy]

9 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

Kate is a little more than just overweight and Toby takes medication for depression,  let's put them first on the list for a healthy white infant who would be pursued by hundreds of couples!

But private adoption doesn't work that way.  It isn't a list ordered that way by most or least worthy.   It is entirely the birth mother's choice based on seeing profiles and videos which she can search... and while I do think it is a bit of a stretch here that Toby and Kate would be so quickly but it isn't like they were put on a list as most deserving.  The girl saw their video of Toby being silly and Jack in the music room and Audio being Audio... (or whatever Pearsontastic probably with a speech) video they did and something felt like a good fit to her.   There is no ordered list in private adoption.

[ams1001]

58 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Also, want to give a quick shout out to Timothy Omundson, who, IMO, stole the show in his one brief scene with his reaction to Kate & Co's virtual hugs. 

And with a mask on, too!

10 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

Kate is a little more than just overweight and Toby takes medication for depression,  let's put them first on the list for a healthy white infant who would be pursued by hundreds of couples!  Yeah,  that's realistic.   I mean if their last name was Pierson maybe,  but they don't even have that to make them soar to the top of the list. 

Kate signed the police paperwork Pearson, so I guess she didn't change her name. So their profile might say Pearson. 

1 minute ago, bybrandy said:

Didn't it say she was 33 on Kate's phone.  I thought that was a bit strange.  I mean my friends recently adopted the child of a birth mom who was 42 so it isn't unprecedented but it doesn't seem like Toby and Kate's birth mom is a teenage grifter. 

She could be a 33 year old grifter.... More realistically, it's quite possible that it just doesn't work out for some reason or another. My old boss adopted and their first birth mother changed her mind within the 72 hour window after birth (she was in Pennsylvania). (Their second attempt worked out and their daughter is about 8 or 9 now.)

[zillabreeze]

19 hours ago, MissL said:

So Randall’s answer to his family never talking about what it felt like for him is to shut them out completely and not talk about it? Is he punishing them? That’s growth? 

Right????  Even in Hollyworld, that was a huge opportunity to educate.

Perhaps, Randall will come off the mount in a future episode and have a constructive convo?

25 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

She could be a 33 year old grifter.... More realistically, it's quite possible that it just doesn't work out for some reason or another.

That's a TeeVee troupe that's been done ad nauseum.  So, yes.  I fully expect something similar.

Edited October 28, 2020 by zillabreeze

[debraran]

1 hour ago, CrystalBlue said:

Oh my God!  Then the parent who said don't invite my kids because your kids would be there, is that right?

Yes, she told me (but I overheard) later and was shocked. She didn't know when she accepted that my kids weren't coming and asked. That lady moved to a different school 2 years later, Good Riddance.