S04.E15: Clouds

[Blakeston]

I used to be a mental health counselor, and if a distracting noise (like that coffee maker hissing) was going on during a session, I would definitely have investigated it. The fact that the therapist didn't makes me think that this wasn't a matter of her forgetting to turn it off. I think she wanted to see how Randall responded to stress, and lack of control.

I don't think that's a particularly professional thing to do. Randall would have been entirely justified in saying, "I don't think you're the therapist for me," and walking out.

But instead he smugly concluded that there was nothing really wrong with him, because his flaws are good flaws (blech). Randall is insufferable. That first session made both of them look bad.

[gonzosgirrl]

16 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

No. It’s very, very hard to make an adult do anything. Sometimes people get court-appointed rehab or anger management if they’ve committed a crime. Randall’s anxiety and breakdowns haven’t risen to the level of “danger to myself or others.” He’s an adult who can make his own decisions - no one can force him to go to therapy.

I have a cousin with bipolar disorder. At his worst, which is WAY worse than Randall, he’s been on 72-hour holds. That’s it.

You certainly can't make an adult do anything, but if I were Beth, last night's conversation would have come long before now. He was hospitalized over it, more than once. I'm afraid if it were me that conversation would have been much more along the lines of 'get help, or get out' at this point. Even now, he's doing it for her, not for himself. In my experience, that almost never sticks, whether it's therapy, or diet, or quitting smoking, etc., it has to be for yourself in order for it to work long term. Hopefully it was enough of a reality check to set him on the road at least.

[meep.meep]

11 hours ago, chocolatine said:

We know that Rebecca likes to play fast and loose with poultry food safety.

Maybe she was planning to cook it in the crock pot.

[Roxie]

32 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I laughed at Rebecca calling the baseball player John Candeleria, Candle-Malaria!

I recognized Pamela Adlon's voice immediately so it was really frustrating for me that they didn't show her face until the end. I totally get why they did it that way, though.

I don't think she (the therapist) did anything wrong with Randall. I think all of the things that annoyed Randall so much says way more about him than it does about her. A lot of people like Randall see the world as out to get them when it reality, a lot of stuff has nothing to do with them. It's their reaction to every minor thing that creates the problems. The therapist had a painting up that she liked, Randall hated it but it's not like he even had to look at it--it was behind him! The outdated magazines? Maybe she spends more time thinking about more important things than putting out magazines. The fact that she heard his speeches? Like he said, he's a public figure. She probably actually attended some of his events. Even if she didn't, I doubt she did a deep dive into social media on him. The coffee maker? She just forgot to turn it off. That's not the end of the world. I bet if Randall asked her to turn it off the first time, she would have been fine with it. The fact that it annoys him so much but he doesn't do anything about it was a window into his issues. None of those things were about Randall but Randall thought they all had to do with her manipulating him somehow.

As a retired therapist, so much this.  I don't know anyone who would have purposely set up the office to trigger a first-time patient.  In fact, she probably wouldn't have known that much about him; typically you only get their intake forms at the appointment, not before. (Plus, no one I know would have had that much free time!) I'm curious about those of us who went to that place, thinking that the therapist had set Randall up.  What made you think that?

[greekmom]

32 minutes ago, kili said:

I wonder if Jack and Rebecca's behaviour made Randall and Kate worse. Kate gets rewarded with attention, compliments and whatever she wants for dinner when she is overly dramatic reinforcing her tendency to do so. Randall gets rewarded with attention and compliments when he is anxious reinforcing that he was right to be anxious. Kevin gets rewarded for nothing good or bad (unless he makes a stand), so he just does whatever he wants and looks externally for rewards (attention in school for acting up and hanging with Sophie's Mom. Even from the dude at the card store who knows Kevin, appreciates his collection and seems to like him). 

But isn't that Jack and Rebecca's MO? Randall got attention from Rebecca and Jack gave his attention to Kate.  Kevin was always pushed aside.  

Randall always had a bit of over protectiveness/hero worship on Rebecca. To the point that Kevin teased him that he was "in love" with Mom.  Kevin is now more responsible, has some money in his pocket and is actually appreciating and taking care of Rebecca is putting Randall in a snit.  The man needs heavy therapy for his issues. For as much as he was loved (and is loved) and loves back the family that adopted him, I think he feels as the add on or the charity case.  

 

[RedDelicious]

See I thought the therapist was doing a great job.  Pretty much the only time it's bad to Google someone before working with them is if you're the Long Island Medium.  Effective therapy is supposed to put you outside of your comfort zone so you can get to the heart of your issues and fix them.  That's where the work is and the therapist dove right in.  I'm sure she's seen her fair share of Randall speeches and knows how to address those types of patients.  I was in therapy for YEARS and I can honestly say I WISH I had a therapist like Randall's because we could have unpacked allll my stuff so much more efficiently.  Only one therapist I ever had in a long line of providers was actually effective.  The rest were just show up and throw up venting sessions and I was never pushed.  When I tried to push myself we never picked up where we left off.  Also there were never cups in the water dispenser at my therapists office either.  We were supposed to bring our own water bottles.  The coffee maker didn't bother me in the slightest.  I associate the sound with breakfast and I love breakfast.  I think that was all about Randall and his need to control everything including things that don't need to be controlled per se.  Especially since the concept going to therapy is in a sense Randall having to give up some control because he didn't think he needed it.  

In other news, how adorable were the kid bandmates in the Jack Damon and the Bugs montage??

[MissLucas]

I honestly don't see a problem with anything the therapist did. Even if she googled Randall I doubt that she would have gotten 'has anxiety issues, will be triggered by girls flying over rooftops holding a balloon; dripping coffeemakers and outdated magazines'. He's a public figure and chances are she just knew him from the news. Setting up all those 'traps' on purpose would require a Machiavellian level of manipulation that only exists in movies. It would also be unprofessional.

I was more bothered by Randall's attitude walking into her office, he slammed down the jacket as if he was at home and immediately started to criticize the painting. He was marking his territory and assuming control even before sitting down. And when he started his 'I had two father's speech' that was just another move to show her how much in control he is of his own narrative. That he does not require pesky therapy. So she yanked out the rug underneath him for a bit - no big deal. If you bring so much passive-aggressive vibes into a room you'll bump into some of it sooner or later.

She probably forgot about the coffeemaker but when she realized how triggering it was she did what a good therapist should do. She asked him about it and he refused to admit it was bothering him because he had to stay in control. She never stopped him from switching off the coffeemaker during the session and had he admitted yes, it is bothering me, she might have switched it off herself. Randall got out of that session exactly what he did put into it. 

Can't wait for the moment she asks him about the one person he normally calls when everything is collapsing and he has to admit it's the idiot brother he had abused during all the previous sessions.

That said if he was that much bothered by how she handled the session he probably should have looked for another therapist instead of just dismissing the whole idea of therapy. It happens that a therapist is not a good fit for a patient and it's unfortunate when there are no other options. But that's not the case here.

Edited February 26, 2020 by MissLucas

[DoubleUTeeEff]

30 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Randall has anxiety.  So?  It's the therapist's job to ease it, to be approachable by Randall so that he can get some help.  I don't know why so many people see therapy as this game where the patient must be cowered and the therapist must win.

 

26 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm sure that this is an extremely common thing for patients of therapy.  It's not going to be cured by minute one.  Why add to that feeling of anxiety when you could try to lessen it as much as possible at the outset?

I don't think she was trying to make Randall "cower" or increase his anxiety. What was she supposed to do when she was picking out paintings for her office? Pick something that couldn't possible offend anyone ever? That's impossible. It was behind Randall--he didn't have to look at it. He MADE it his problem by caring so much that she had a painting he didn't like. A therapist should help him deal with the fact that he can't possibly be in a situation where nothing will annoy him not help him try and remove every possible thing from his life that he doesn't like. That's never going to happen. He has to learn to deal because he's never going to have everything he wants all of the time. As to the coffee maker, she did ask him if it bothered him and he said no. He has to learn to speak up if something bothers him rather than just grin and bear it. Was she supposed to go back in time and not hear his speeches? It was too late for that, so she told him that she had heard them, like she should. Same with the magazines, it shouldn't bother him so much that they are out of date--he doesn't have to look at them if he's not interested! Everything he reacts to, he makes a bigger problem than it should be.

[greekmom]

Gawwww. Thank you poster above for reminding me.

Who does Randall rely on when he has these big attacks?  Kate? No.  Rebecca? No.  Beth? Nope.  It's Kevin.

Even though Kevin might have been a bit flaky in the past, I think he is overall the glue that held the family together as he is mostly like Jack.

[ams1001]

5 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

The coffee maker didn't bother me in the slightest.  I associate the sound with breakfast and I love breakfast.  I think that was all about Randall and his need to control everything including things that don't need to be controlled per se.

And the coffee maker actually was something he could control...as evidenced by the fact that he turned it off on his way out. He could easily have asked to turn it off as soon as he heard it. He didn't have to let it get to him (while claiming it didn't) and be such an ass about it. (It probably would have bothered me but once I knew what was causing the noise I would either turn it off if I could, or if it was something like the heating system or something that couldn't immediately be fixed, I would at least be better able to tune it out.)

[gonzosgirrl]

35 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Maybe she was planning to cook it in the crock pot.

Burn!!!

 

(Hehehe)

[Quiet1]

In Silver Linings Playbook, Bradley Cooper has a therapist who plays a song to trigger him on his first visit. Maybe it's not that uncommon. This way they see first hand how they react.

[Blakeston]

39 minutes ago, Roxie said:

As a retired therapist, so much this.  I don't know anyone who would have purposely set up the office to trigger a first-time patient.  In fact, she probably wouldn't have known that much about him; typically you only get their intake forms at the appointment, not before. (Plus, no one I know would have had that much free time!) I'm curious about those of us who went to that place, thinking that the therapist had set Randall up.  What made you think that?

I certainly didn't think the therapist had any intention of using the painting or the magazines to trigger Randall. (As far as I'm concerned, 2017 magazines are recent for a doctor's office!)

But leaving the coffee machine on, while it makes that sound? I find that highly odd. Even if it wasn't left on intentionally, the decent thing to do once you hear it hissing is to turn it off.

I think it's entirely possible that the therapist, being familiar with Randall from watching his speeches (at the very least), was able to sense that he was a control freak, and decided to do a little experiment with how he reacts to an annoying noise.

[qtpye]

15 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Thank you Madison, for telling Kate that Toby should be able to share his fears and feelings without reprocussions! 

Boy Randall was spiraling to an asshole level at therapy. Proof he needs it.

Love the flash forward of Jack in the studio!

This is how you talk to Kate

"Kate, you are the most amazing wonderful person in the whole world and I love you to death (though you have done nothing to earn this loyalty or friendship) but maaaaybe....you should think of someone else's feelings than your own'?

Kate looked great at the lunch...Madison was dressed like an old lady.

Edited February 26, 2020 by qtpye

[izabella]

I did not get any impression the therapist was trying to trigger Randall.  I got the impression he was hostile from before he even arrived, and saw himself as a martyr for having to be there in the first place, as well as defensive and rude.

I do not like Rebecca much, so I was afraid I would hate this episode and her scenes with Kevin, but I enjoyed most of them.  I could have done with a lot less singing on her part, though.

I'm glad Kate and Toby came to some kind of resolution.  Three cheers for Madison for setting Kate straight on letting Toby feel and express his feelings to her freely without her belittling them and him.

Another three cheers for Beth for telling Randall he does NOT have his shit together, so she has to do it for the both of them and that makes HER the one who is bottling up all her stress, not that he ever ASKED how she was doing.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't think Randall did anything "wrong" in the session.  I think he was understandably anxious about the whole ordeal and the therapist could have been more understanding.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[AnythingCanBe]

Potentially dumb question: Was there something particularly upsetting about the painting that I missed?  Sure, it might not be to everyone's taste, but I wouldn't expect an ugly painting to be annoying or anxiety inducing in the way that the other things Randall got upset about were.  With the hissing noise for example, even though Randall was insufferable about it, I could at least understand why it was part of putting him on edge.

[kili]

Quote

Potentially dumb question: Was there something particularly upsetting about the painting that I missed?  Sure, it might not be to everyone's taste, but I wouldn't expect an ugly painting to be annoying or anxiety inducing in the way that the other things Randall got upset about were.

It's like the old saying  "When you love somebody, they can do no wrong. When you hate somebody, they can't even eat soup correctly."

Randall doesn't think he needs therapy. He doesn't like therapy. He doesn't want it.

From the moment he arrived at the therapy office, he was looking for things to be annoyed with. Having to press a button to say you are there? Check. Having the door not instantly open? Check. Having 2 year old magazines? Check. Painting not to his taste? Check. Therapist stating why she likes ugly painting? Check. Therapist knowing who he is? Check. Therapist not letting him speechify? Check. Therapist challenging his "I have to save everyone" narrative? Explosion.

If she had a secretary, that would have vexed him (now, everyone knows I'm going to therapy and she is just adding cost).  If the therapist had opened the door instantly, she would have been patronizing him. If the magazines were current, they would have been the wrong subject (motorhoming?). If the painting was one he loved and had hanging in his own office, he would have considered that suspicious. If the therapist had said a designer picked out the picture, he would have been annoyed at the fakery. If the therapist had no clue who he was, he would have been insulted.

Granted, he would be pleased to be allowed to control the session by giving his safe, comfortable speech, but then he would have felt that therapy added no more value than giving his speech to an audience or the guy who sells fans at Home Depot.

Randall wanted the session to fail because he doesn't want to do them.

[izabella]

3 minutes ago, kili said:

Randall wanted the session to fail because he doesn't want to do them.

100x yes to everything you said.  Also, he wanted to be able to tell Beth he "tried" and gave therapy "a chance" and it "failed" so he could stop going.

Edited February 26, 2020 by izabella

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, Roxie said:

I'm curious about those of us who went to that place, thinking that the therapist had set Randall up.  What made you think that?

I didn't think the therapist was trying to set him up.  I also assumed whatever she knew about him came from living in his district and having been inundated with his story and maybe looking him up in that regard not as a patient, although that is something she likely should have disclosed.  

But there are wildly bad therapists (not most) and those of us who have seen them tend to be more skeptical of the profession even when two of the very, very, very, very best people we know in the world are therapists who clearly are not the right fit for every patient but clearly are doing good in this world for the patients who they are a right fit for.  

Any time I consider seeing a therapist vast walls go up.  I'm not like Randall in general but I would likely be as on guard as he was and it is only my 4th decade that I think I might be able to get past that enough to try.

[memememe76]

In the same way that Kate should allow Toby to say what he is feeling to her without punishment, I feel I am not going to punish Randall for what he said in the therapist's office. It's not like the show thought what Randall said (particularly about Kevin) was right. Having said that, I was having Randall-level anxieties that Randall and Rebecca would miss that doctor's appointment. I mean, traffic in LA is so unpredictable. 

 

ETA: Oops, I meant KEVIN and Rebecca would miss that appointment!

Edited February 26, 2020 by memememe76

[bybrandy]

5 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

In the same way that Kate should allow Toby to say what he is feeling to her without punishment, I feel I am not going to punish Randall for what he said in the therapist's office. It's not like the show thought what Randall said (particularly about Kevin) was right. Having said that, I was having Randall-level anxieties that Randall and Rebecca would miss that doctor's appointment. I mean, traffic in LA is so unpredictable. 

I mean Randall is in therapy because Randall has issues.  He's wrong that his family would collapse without him.  Kate is managing with her special needs kid.   Kevin is keeping sober.  Kevin got Rebecca to her appointment.  But he needs to deal with those issues and those feelings and he's going about it the right way in what seems like the first time in his life, so I agree.

If he shouted those things at Kate and Kev (which I mean he might well next week) I'd be more angry but in the safe place that is his therapists office... bang on... hopefully she can help.

 

[Crs97]

One small, subtle moment that broke my heart a little: Miguel’s surprised “Oh okay” when Kevin hugged him.  You could tell it was the first time he had ever received a spontaneous, genuine hug from Kevin (or any of them probably).

[ShadowFacts]

52 minutes ago, kili said:

Randall wanted the session to fail because he doesn't want to do them.

And yet he's going back, because of Beth. Which I saw as a double edged sword -- he needs help of course for anxiety and for being a self-described control freak, but he has just had it pointed out that he needs to go back or he is responsible for Beth not being able to fully handle her own anxiety. I think his first session was rocky as many are I'm sure, and he may have said a bunch of stuff that viewers are critical about, but there he is. Like he always is. Trying hard to keep things together. He tried going it alone, now he's taken the step others have urged. I think he now has the added burden of performing successfully in therapy so as not to further upset Beth. Not an enviable position to be in.

[Lily H]

I've always hated with a passion the song Our House by CSN. Oddly enough, I also hate the completely different song Our House by Madness.

[PRgal]

Did one of the Tween Big 3 say they wanted mac and cheese grilled cheese?  Then we saw Rebecca make what I'd call baked mac and cheese or mac and cheese casserole.  Is mac and cheese grilled cheese a Pittsburgh term?

 

Also, was anyone surprised that Randall's therapist wasn't African-American?

[meep.meep]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I have to admit that I loathe "Our House." I find it lazy to repeat a word that many times in a row ("very very very"). It's the same reason I instantly disliked that Bryan Adams song "Have You Ever Really Loved a Woman?" Tell me have you ever really, really really ever repeated a bunch of words?

I hate it too.  At my high school so many of us hated it that we would sing it with extra very's, like 20, just to see who would break first.

7 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I have to throw a little shade on the report card revelation scene. That was some kind of questionable. Way to fan the flames of sibling rivalry, Jack and Rebecca. At least it wouldn't have gone over well in my household, or my family of origin, either. 

It was really questionable.  I was a straight A'er, but if I had dared to question an A- and say I was going to "fix" it, my parents would have been all over me.  You get the grade you get, and there's nothing wrong with an A-.  They set up Randall in his box of perfectionism and never saw that he needed help getting out of it.  Running doesn't cut it.

[Lily H]

4 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Did one of the Tween Big 3 say they wanted mac and cheese grilled cheese? 

I'm pretty sure Kate said she wanted 3-Cheese Macaroni.

[Cheyanne11]

6 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Did one of the Tween Big 3 say they wanted mac and cheese grilled cheese?  Then we saw Rebecca make what I'd call baked mac and cheese or mac and cheese casserole.  Is mac and cheese grilled cheese a Pittsburgh term?

Kate said she wanted "three cheese macaroni."

 

41 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

One small, subtle moment that broke my heart a little: Miguel’s surprised “Oh okay” when Kevin hugged him.  You could tell it was the first time he had ever received a spontaneous, genuine hug from Kevin (or any of them probably).

I also loved Miguel letting Kate and Kevin have a day alone together.  He really is a good guy.

[SunnyBeBe]

13 hours ago, memememe76 said:

Madison was great tonight, it is sad that the younger versions of Kate never seemed to have a female BFF. Imagine Teen Madison existing in that world while Kate was with Marc? 
 

Miguel’s reaction to the MRI results broke my heart. 
 

The therapist is played by a relatively well known actress, Pamela Adlon. She is not Julia Roberts famous but not unknown either. The show not featuring her face was intentional, heightening Randall’s suspicion and distrust. When we were see her, she is smiling. 

Thank you for the bolden!  I knew it.  She is a great actress and is very varied. I have enjoyed her work for years on Californication and Louie.  But, the kicker for me was that to me her VOICE is very much like Lorraine Bracco, from the Sopranos. (Deep and husky.)  She played Dr. Melfi, Tony Sopranos psychiatrist.  When Randall walked in and we just heard her voice, it was very reminiscent of the therapy sessions that Tony had with her on the Sopranos for me.  Even her technique was like Dr. Melfi!  

[NUguy514]

Just to echo what others have said, I thought the way Randall's scenes were filmed was to demonstrate that Randall went into that first session determined to hate/feel superior to it and was looking to create a mental list of all of the unacceptable things he observed: that shitty button, those magazines (from 2017? How lazy!), the lack of cups (how inconsiderate!), that horrid painting, the coffee maker (pop, pop, fizz, fizz, oh, what a relief it is! NOT!).  He sought out those unacceptable things to justify his belief that this is all completely beneath him.

I didn't find it odd that she knew him; she likely saw him at a rally during the election and heard that same "I was left at the fire station, was adopted, have two dads" speech, as she said.  I'm glad she cut him off on that because he needs to be talking about the stuff he wouldn't put in a public speech.

I really, really hope we see the moment he has to admit to his therapist that Kevin, the brother he thinks is such a stupid, fuck-up asshole (I never doubted for a second that Kevin would make sure Rebecca made her appointment), is the only one he turns to and depends on when he has a panic attack.

[Ohiopirate02]

38 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

It was really questionable.  I was a straight A'er, but if I had dared to question an A- and say I was going to "fix" it, my parents would have been all over me.  You get the grade you get, and there's nothing wrong with an A-.  They set up Randall in his box of perfectionism and never saw that he needed help getting out of it.  Running doesn't cut it.

Jack teaching kid Randall to run out his feelings is just like Jack trying to punch away his.  At that point in Jack's life that was his coping mechanism.  As far as Jack is concerned, exercise works for him why wouldn't it work for Randall?  I do wonder if he would have tried to get Randall to seek other ways to deal with his anxiety after Jack  committed to doing AA.  Randall is against therapy for himself because he never saw his father doing it.  

[nexxie]

Really loving this season - so many poignant moments and music about the small wonders in life.

[Diane12251]

14 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

There's too much Madison going on in TIU for it to be just random filler, which has me thinking that she will be the pregnant fiancee of Kevin.  I think the TMI revelation that Madison laid on Kate is a clue.  If she was literally upside down, that would be a natural facilitation of the conception process.

That's what I thought, too.  I wouldn't be surprised if Madison becomes Kevin's fiance - and actually, I can see them together.  I actually liked her in this episode - she seemed more mature or something.  In the past, she's seemed too flighty, but in last night's episode, she seemed very much Kevin's type.  At this point, I don't think his fiance will be Sophie although I would love that.  I hated, though, that she was apologizing to Kate.  I mean, come on - they're all adults so what's the big deal?

[HollyGoLitely333]

14 hours ago, memememe76 said:

 

Madison was great tonight, it is sad that the younger versions of Kate never seemed to have a female BFF. Imagine Teen Madison existing in that world while Kate was with Marc? 

 

This is a great observation. I wonder if we'll get a glimpse into teen Madison's story. If she turns out to be the mother of Kevin's baby and the writers are planning to flesh her story out more, maybe we will get to know her more. 

 

[Aloeonatable]

7 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Well, considering we're 4 seasons in and we still know next to nothing about their youngest child...we know more about their adopted daughter's boyfriend's family...

I don't miss them, the Randall Pearson children, at all. I've enjoyed the last few episodes and think these episodes are as good as the first season's. 

[Kdawg82]

Have barely read the comments so far but why not reveal the therapist's face til the end? She looks familiar but are we supposed to know her & is she a big "get" for the show?

[Diane12251]

7 minutes ago, Kdawg82 said:

Have barely read the comments so far but why not reveal the therapist's face til the end? She looks familiar but are we supposed to know her & is she a big "get" for the show?

Pamela Adlon.  She was on Californication and Louie.  She's a very good actress - not super well-known, though. 

[Diane12251]

4 hours ago, greekmom said:

Gawwww. Thank you poster above for reminding me.

Who does Randall rely on when he has these big attacks?  Kate? No.  Rebecca? No.  Beth? Nope.  It's Kevin.

Yes!!!  Randall was saying that Kevin is undependable, but he turns to him during his panic attacks.  I really hope going to therapy will make Randall less annoying,

[Trillian]

 

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I certainly didn't think the therapist had any intention of using the painting or the magazines to trigger Randall. (As far as I'm concerned, 2017 magazines are recent for a doctor's office!)

Isn’t that an old joke about magazines in the doctor’s office?  Flipping through: hmmm, looks like the Beatles are breaking up. 

[Haute Messe]

4 hours ago, izabella said:

I did not get any impression the therapist was trying to trigger Randall.  I got the impression he was hostile from before he even arrived, and saw himself as a martyr for having to be there in the first place, as well as defensive and rude.

I do not like Rebecca much, so I was afraid I would hate this episode and her scenes with Kevin, but I enjoyed most of them.  I could have done with a lot less singing on her part, though.

I'm glad Kate and Toby came to some kind of resolution.  Three cheers for Madison for setting Kate straight on letting Toby feel and express his feelings to her freely without her belittling them and him.

Another three cheers for Beth for telling Randall he does NOT have his shit together, so she has to do it for the both of them and that makes HER the one who is bottling up all her stress, not that he ever ASKED how she was doing.

All of this, and as for the bolded, phew - I thought I was the only one who felt this way. I don't like Mandy's singing. There - I said it.

[ams1001]

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

(As far as I'm concerned, 2017 magazines are recent for a doctor's office!)

I have magazines from 2012 in my bathroom...

46 minutes ago, Diane12251 said:

Pamela Adlon.  She was on Californication and Louie.  She's a very good actress - not super well-known, though. 

I never heard of her until I read comments here; then again, I never watched any of the shows that have been mentioned, either.

[memememe76]

2 hours ago, HollyGoLitely333 said:

This is a great observation. I wonder if we'll get a glimpse into teen Madison's story. If she turns out to be the mother of Kevin's baby and the writers are planning to flesh her story out more, maybe we will get to know her more. 

 

Ooh, never thought of that. Do we know what Madison does for a living? I vaguely remember Madison taking Kate to all those fancy boutiques. Maybe Madison tried acting when she was younger but never got her break (which also can explain her low self esteem and body issues). They can frame it where Madison and Teen Kevin both lived in LA (never knowing each other, or maybe Madison knew him but he never paid her any attention), but where Madison only experienced failure, Kevin achieved success. We can also see what led Madison to attend an Eaters Anonymous group. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by memememe76

[Crs97]

24 minutes ago, Trillian said:

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

 

Isn’t that an old joke about magazines in the doctor’s office?  Flipping through: hmmm, looks like the Beatles are breaking up. 

I have a great story about that.  When LeBron left Cleveland the first time and had already won an NBA championship for Miami, I head to a doctor’s office and see on the table his first cover of Sports Illustrated with the quote being how he will never leave Cleveland until they win a title because he owes it to the fans.  I walk it to the receptionist and ask if they keep it for the irony.  She flinches when she sees it and cannot throw it away fast enough.  The next thing I knew she was out collecting all the old magazines.  There were tons, but I like stumbling across the old stuff.  Randall was just primed to be annoyed by everything in her office.

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Lily H said:

I've always hated with a passion the song Our House by CSN. Oddly enough, I also hate the completely different song Our House by Madness.

"Our house is a very very very fine house - in the middle of the street." (I'll see myself out.)

[nlkm9]

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I certainly didn't think the therapist had any intention of using the painting or the magazines to trigger Randall. (As far as I'm concerned, 2017 magazines are recent for a doctor's office!)

But leaving the coffee machine on, while it makes that sound? I find that highly odd. Even if it wasn't left on intentionally, the decent thing to do once you hear it hissing is to turn it off.

I think it's entirely possible that the therapist, being familiar with Randall from watching his speeches (at the very least), was able to sense that he was a control freak, and decided to do a little experiment with how he reacts to an annoying noise.

it made me think of how the crockpot burned the house down 😞

[Jillybean]

I re-watched the episode today and I was struck by Randall saying to the therapist "It's not hard. Turn it off when you're done." It very much made me think of the crockpot and I wondered if that's where Randall's mind went with it.

[Dowel Jones]

5 hours ago, memememe76 said:

ETA: Oops, I meant KEVIN and Rebecca would miss that appointment!

I had to laugh a bit at the scene where the two of them are arguing about that appointment.  Rebecca just offhandedly says "Oh, I'll just go in tomorrow."  Because getting an appointment to see a specialist is sooo easy.

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Jack teaching kid Randall to run out his feelings is just like Jack trying to punch away his. 

Production point:  Randall takes off running in the opposite direction of a normal track (clockwise instead of counterclockwise).  However, at the end he and Jack are shown running counter clockwise.  I wonder if that was intentional, to show Randall's disillusionment with sports.

[theatremouse]

2 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

Have barely read the comments so far but why not reveal the therapist's face til the end? She looks familiar but are we supposed to know her & is she a big "get" for the show?

I don't think the point was to be a "reveal". I think the point was Randall was being super self-absorbed and defensive in the first appointment, and just swirling with himself and all the stuff he was pointing out about the office. Whereas once they showed her face, he was actually looking at her and treating her like a human. THAT SAID I think it was a stupid directorial choice that didn't really land and I only came to the conclusion I did because it's the only thing that remotely makes any sense. (Unless she later turns out to be "the mother" but really at this point hiding the therapists face and then revealing it is just melodramatic.)

[tvmom]

10 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

I don't think the point was to be a "reveal". I think the point was Randall was being super self-absorbed and defensive in the first appointment, and just swirling with himself and all the stuff he was pointing out about the office. Whereas once they showed her face, he was actually looking at her and treating her like a human. THAT SAID I think it was a stupid directorial choice that didn't really land and I only came to the conclusion I did because it's the only thing that remotely makes any sense. (Unless she later turns out to be "the mother" but really at this point hiding the therapists face and then revealing it is just melodramatic.)

If any of you here watched Thirtysomething, the same technique was used when Nancy and Elliot went to therapy. We saw the two of them through the therapist's eyes in a few episodes. Since Ken Olin is an executive producer, I wasn't surprised to see it used here on TIU.