S04.E15: Clouds

[t7686]

Kevin & Rebecca was beautiful, in both timelines. But I feel for Randall as much as he was acting like a sanctimonious twat. He need to be the glue otherwise what else (to him) does he have? Kate and Kevin are a given, they belong. He was extra, added. If he’s not the one everyone needs then he might as well been left at the fire station. Not true but the thought makes sense. I feel for him. Plus don’t we all have roles we play in our families? Kate can’t deal, Kevin disappoints and Randall steps up. I can definitely see a rift forming as the siblings step out of those roles.

[buttersister]

Not news that Randall’s a control freak, but the glimpse in therapy of how profound it runs was brave of them, and Sterling.

I’ll say this again, not sure how I can like Kevin more, until the next time he sweetifies me.

I saw Graham Nash in concert last year talking about living with Joni as a lead-in to singing Our House so thanks, Show.😢

[memememe76]

Madison was great tonight, it is sad that the younger versions of Kate never seemed to have a female BFF. Imagine Teen Madison existing in that world while Kate was with Marc? 
 

Miguel’s reaction to the MRI results broke my heart. 
 

The therapist is played by a relatively well known actress, Pamela Adlon. She is not Julia Roberts famous but not unknown either. The show not featuring her face was intentional, heightening Randall’s suspicion and distrust. When we were see her, she is smiling. 

[sheetmoss]

At first I was wondering if the therapist--with husky voice and long dark hair was going to be Demi Moore because of how cagey they were being showing her - well, it  was Pamela Adlon

https://tvline.com/2020/02/25/this-is-us-randalls-therapist-pamela-adlon-season-4/

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by sheetmoss

[CrystalBlue]

There's too much Madison going on in TIU for it to be just random filler, which has me thinking that she will be the pregnant fiancee of Kevin.  I think the TMI revelation that Madison laid on Kate is a clue.  If she was literally upside down, that would be a natural facilitation of the conception process.

Rebecca and Kevin scenes were great.  And Miguel made an appearance!

[bros402]

Good episode, but Randall's therapist is... uhhh.... something.

Randall should realize that the first therapist you see might not be the one for you - it took until the third one I saw to find the therapist that can help me. Beth should also realize that.

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, camom said:

I noticed throughout the episode that they weren't showing the therapist, then they did at the very end. 

I had this weird feeling throughout the session that it was entirely imagined by Randall.  It was only after he was recounting it with Beth that the session was real.

[NUguy514]

Randall:

You went into that therapy session looking to hate and feel prohibitively superior to it and the therapist herself.  Thank god your long-suffering wife finally gave you a much-needed reality check; that really was a great scene.  I hate to break it to you, but Kevin and Miguel are not these mentally challenged paramecia you seem to think they are.  You are not the hero and savior you think you are.

Kevin:

You are just a delight and so much steadier and more capable than your dipshit family (especially your asshole brother) thinks.  Your scenes with Rebecca were so wonderful, and you will listen to and respect her wishes and show up for her honestly in a way that a certain relation of yours will not.

Rebecca:  Don't think I didn't see how ready you were to brush kid Kevin aside.  I still love you, though, and was glad you asked him for what you needed.  He will meet your needs because he is a sweetheart.  Genuinely.  And I could listen to you sing "Our House" all day.

Beth: You're a saint for putting up with Randall, but thank you for finally asking him for what YOU need.

Kate: You started out in fine form, just looking for any reason to be a martyr.  I'm glad Madison got through to you a bit on the Toby front.

Toby: That was a great gesture.

Madison: You gave Kate great advice where Toby is concerned, but, girl, no one wants to hear about your sex with his/her sibling.

I am adamantly opposed to you and Kevin as a couple.

[Goodie]

I knew from the voice without seeing her that the therapist was Better Things‘ Pamela Adlon. Did anyone else think, how can she be a therapist, she's a mess? lol Based totally on her Better Things character. I love her and hope she has a major role in the show!

[Ana88]

A few things I loved in this episode:

Pre-teen Kevin is my favorite of all time. I could watch episodes after episodes of flashbacks to that time. I also just think it's SUCH an impressionable time, so maybe the most crucial years for how the big 3 adults turn out, which is why I'm holding on to every second. It was so clear how much of an afterthought Kevin has been in that family dynamic. The whole grade thing, having to beg to go to a store for 5 mins with his mom, etc. I do find it really refreshing though how we see Rebecca and Jack are two loving parents but sometimes things or families just happen like that and a not so good dynamic gets started without it being the intention. The scene with Kevin and Rebecca at the store though just hit me! You literally could see how much it meant for him to get some positive reaction from his mom. The current timeline scenes were also really touching and Rebecca was so nice and assertive to say how nice of a trait Kevin has to make everything fun. It's these things he has been yearning to hear from her all these years. You can really tell how much this reconnection with his mom means to him. Just adorable! It's never too late. 

Kate and Toby seemed better than I thought they would. I actually liked the Kate/Madison scene after a little awkwardness in the beginning. I thought it seemed super real and could be a conversation between me and my best friend. I am softening up to Madison and do see how she and Kevin could workout although I am still team Kophie.

Forgot to mention pre-teen and also teen Kate are really good at showing that teenage girl world! I keep getting flashbacks to that age and all those mood swings, insecurities, doubts etc. Even just the body languages they nail perfectly and the music. 

The montage at the end with young Jack Damon was so good. It's funny how all these little or bigger things parents decide to do can make such an impact on their kids. Imagine if they hadnt built that studio, who knows if Jack  would even end up in the music industry. 

I am not even gonna comment on Randall. 

Also lastly, ugh, why is there another break next week?? Can this show get it together?! 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Ana88

[debraran]

4 hours ago, colorbars said:

He loved Zoe, too? Obviously she's not a likely candidate for the fiancee/mother, but I don't think Sophie is the only woman he's been shown to love.

That's true, forgot about her, but not in the same way. He never has brought her up and she didn't want kids (and they listened) but yes he cared about her.  Showing the picture in the time capsule and other things, I know it could be good past memories, but I'm a sucker for a good ending and I can hope. I don't hate Madison but she always seems "dippy" and if she does say something mature once, it's a big deal.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love Pamela Adlon so I was happy to see she's Randall's therapist.

My parents love to tell my sisters and me that they never had favorites and that they treated the three of us the same, but it's just not true. I see that playing out in the Pearson family flashbacks too. I don't doubt that Jack and Rebecca loved all three of their kids, but the way they treated them with their report cards showed us pretty bluntly that their worry (and praise) was usually reserved for Randall and Kate while Kevin was an afterthought who had to be dealt with perfunctorily before Rebecca and Jack peeled off to deal with his siblings. Rebecca flat out said, "I will handle [Kate]. Let's do Kevin quickly and then I'll go upstairs" IN FRONT OF KEVIN.

Jack and Randall positioned Randall as the reliable kid and he's been playing that role to the umpteenth degree since Jack died. He was visibly annoyed when he found out that Kevin was taking Rebecca to her follow up appointment. As much as Randall claims that the family needs him in this role, I think part of him relishes it because being dependable and being needed gives him a sense of importance. I have no doubt that Kevin taking Rebecca made Randall feel like his place was being usurped (despite the fact that logically it makes sense for Kevin to go since he's already in California).

I was already annoyed at how defensive Randall was from the beginning of his appointment and then he just devolved from there (heh, but my OCD sighed in agreement with him when he saw there were no cups at the water cooler). If you really think that particular therapist isn't working for you, try another one (finding the right therapist is like finding the right massage therapist, hair stylist, and life partner - not everyone is going to be a good fit right away so you may have to try a lot before you find the one who you click with). Instead he brushed it off as something that wasn't for him and dangled it like carrot saying that maybe he'd try again some day.

I'm glad that Beth cut through Randall's BS excuses and told him why he needs to go to therapy. His denial about how serious these problems are is impacting her as a wife, as a mother, and as a person who is afraid because someone broke into her house and she can't share any of that with him because she doesn't want to be the one that causes his next breakdown.

6 hours ago, milner said:

Lots of women would be happy if their brother and friend became a couple. Was it ever stated why Kate was against it?  The only valid reason I can think of is that she’s afraid Madison will get hurt. Many sisters in law become good friends 

I'm guessing it's because Kevin has screwed up in a lot of his relationships which means that the odds of things ending amicably with Madison are not great, and that would put Kate in the awkward position of either choosing between them or refereeing when they're in the same room (like, say, for Jack's birthday parties).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A+ for sad Kate listening to NKOTB after getting dumped. Bonus points for Blind Melon later!

I have to admit that I loathe "Our House." I find it lazy to repeat a word that many times in a row ("very very very"). It's the same reason I instantly disliked that Bryan Adams song "Have You Ever Really Loved a Woman?" Tell me have you ever really, really really ever repeated a bunch of words?

[MissLucas]

I'll give Randall a free pass for being annoyed at the coffee maker and the missing cups; the magazines not so much because I have yet to see a waiting room with latest issue magazines. But what the hell was wrong with the wannabe Banksy picture??? When one of my schoolmates who just qualified as a therapist told me she was about to furnish her office rooms I begged for something fun because I'm so tired of seeing scraggly abstract 70's artwork whenever I need to someone with a medical degree (specialization does not matter - they all seem to have a knack for that stuff and it's depressing as hell).  

I remember back in season 1 we got a lot of scenes of young Kevin being a jerk to Randall - looks like this season we're getting to see the other side of that coin. He was such a jackass to Kevin during the score card scene - and Rebecca and Jack focusing on Kate and Randall didn't help. Shades of the pool episode there.

Glad Beth finally put down her foot with Randall. And Madison was great offering to become Kate's hit-woman and giving good advice. And although it was way too much information to dump on a sister her enthusiasm for Kevin's skills between the sheets and Kate's face provided some much needed comic relief.

[debraran]

https://ew.com/tv/2020/02/25/this-is-us-producers-randall-therapy-rebecca-diagnosis/

Nice interview on therapy and future episodes...only 3 more. ; (

I was thinking Beth telling Randall she couldn't share with him might have some nodding but really if he was medically sick in another way, getting chemo or something similar, would people think it was okay to say "I can't share my anxiety with you like this, so get better?" I know she was pushing him a bit, but mental illness still is still thought of as different and I felt that put undue pressure on him. I think she should have encouraged him because of his family and other things, but not her issues.

Edited February 26, 2020 by debraran

[Blakeston]

I was thrilled to see Rebecca and young Kevin actually bonding! But it was sad that it only happened after she reminded him multiple times that he matters less than his siblings.

It's interesting that Rebecca only relented on the baseball cards when he accused her of not being a "fun" mom. He had tried pointing out how unfair she was being, and that didn't faze her. He pointed out how important it was to him, and that didn't faze her either. The only thing that worked was appealing to her self-image.

Rebecca's constant diminishment of Kevin as a child makes me suspect that she felt outright contempt for him, based for the way he treated Randall. I have to think it would be very difficult to watch one of your kids constantly mistreat one of your other kids, and refuse to even acknowledge them as a sibling. (Especially when the child getting picked on, like Randall, was vulnerable to begin with.)

But of course, Kevin's mistreatment of Randall had a lot to do with Rebecca favoring Randall. It's a chicken-or-the-egg thing.

[BonnieD]

for me, this show is back to season one level of goodness. I'm all on board again. Every episode moves me, sometimes to tears. I'm invested in all the storylines again, yes, even annoying Randall's because he can't help being the person he is (maybe the therapist CAN help with that lol)

Once again I'm looking forward to each episode and putting this on top of my list of fav tv shows. Kudos to the new writing team or refocusing or whatever happened in the writer's room to make things better after, what I considered a dismal last season. Don't need Big Dramatic Events or, god forbid, runnin for political office storylines. ONly need to see a family being a family and dealing with the underlying structure of who they are to each other.

[ShadowFacts]

I have to throw a little shade on the report card revelation scene. That was some kind of questionable. Way to fan the flames of sibling rivalry, Jack and Rebecca. At least it wouldn't have gone over well in my household, or my family of origin, either. 

[Crs97]

Totally agree at how inappropriate the public report card reveal was, especially announcing grades and personal comments to everyone.  Randall yelling, “No way!” and looking at Kevin’s report card would have gotten him in trouble here.  Gotta love Kevin’s smug look at his dismal report card - he got his $10 I guess.  I didn’t blame Rebecca for not prioritizing the trip for the baseball cards.  He invited himself on her errands run, not because he wanted to spend time with her but because he wanted something from her.  I don’t know why she didn’t deal with errands before they got home, but she was clear to him from the beginning that it was a busy afternoon.  She was also less than eager to reward two easy A’s when the rest of his report card was awful.  His comment about fun mom wouldn’t have worked here; instead, he would have gotten the “what so you want to accomplish and how do you think that comment helps your cause?” questions.  He is charming, though, and that smile is infectious.

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, debraran said:

I think at their age, the Madison/Kevin talk with Kate is silly.

I agree. They're all grown. I can see how it would be a bit awkward, but I don't see Madison and Kevin sleeping together as a betrayal of Kate. I don't think Kevin does either. And Kate's pretty me me me about the whole thing, which I find annoying. Madison is ride or die for Kate but I've never gotten the impression that Kate is ride or die for Madison - would Kate be like "Is some Crossfit bitch getting on your nerves? I'll kill her!" to Madison? I doubt it. (I'm not a Kate fan.)

I haven't finished the episode yet but Kevin leaning on some record shelves and gazing at his mom as she blisses out on Joni Mitchell? HOT.

[Eureka]

5 hours ago, Ana88 said:

 

Also lastly, ugh, why is there another break next week?? Can this show get it together?! 

It's Super Tuesday next week. All the major networks will be having election results/commentary.

[TV Diva Queen]

Loved that Randall called the dr. "Dr. Melfi" even after he made the Soprano reference.  and how much was the baseball card adult Kevin bought?  Was it $2?  This Cub fan remembers that player, I thought he had a cool last name.  I was 10.  LOL  

[RedDelicious]

Thinking about the future of Kate and Jack, in the flash forward last season, when they are gathering for Rebecca who is presumably near the end, and we see Toby alone in the bed, wasn’t Kate on her way to join them with Jack in tow? She wasn’t shown but I thought someone was talking to her on the phone?

[ams1001]

11 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Can I smack Randall? Please?

I am rather amused that this comment got enough reactions to get a pink border.  😛

10 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

Do they have any time to explore the lives of Beth and Randall's children further this season? The season is rapidly drawing to a close.

Well, considering we're 4 seasons in and we still know next to nothing about their youngest child...we know more about their adopted daughter's boyfriend's family...

10 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

 I wonder if Kate’s weight leads to an early Demise. I loved seeing jacks transformation into adult singer. So i don’t remember in the flash forward Randall and Kevin aren’t speaking and Kate isn’t there correct ?

Kate is there; she signs the paperwork when they bring lost Rebecca back to the cabin. (She signs "Pearson" which had some people speculating on what that means for her marriage, but I don't know that they ever said that she changed her name in the first place, so it might not mean anything.)

I was thinking that Jack being shown without Kate in the garage past preschool-age, aside from whatever reason they're not showing Kate in the future in general, was also to show him growing up to be an independent kid who doesn't need his mom around despite his disability. He's shown with mom when he's younger, when it makes sense that she would be with him out there (that scene looked like she was working on something while watching toddler Jack), then with friends around middle school age, then alone with what looks like professional equipment as a young adult. He's growing up as a normal kid with friends and a future who doesn't need his parents hovering.

9 hours ago, hookedontv said:

It was kind of weird but I wonder if we only saw her after Randall went back for a second session and maybe finally acknowledged or “saw” her for the first time. The first session he was not engaged, he was rattling things off to her, was totally uncomfortable, and didn’t think he needed to be there. The second session, Randall appears to be focused and a little more relaxed. 

Yeah, it was totally a narrative device. (The TVLine recap mentioned that it was from the therapist's point of view. Which sort of works, but then as the audience we know more about Randall than the therapist so we're not exactly seeing it through her eyes.)

Randall's angry "it's like you googled me; isn't that against the rules?" bothered me. I mean, sure, a lot of people aren't going to know who the city council people are, but he did just run a political campaign and is now a public figure; did it really not occur to him that the therapist would have at least seen him on the news? Also he was just downright rude from the moment he walked into the office. Like even the art on her walls was some kind of personal slight against him.

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

And although it was way too much information to dump on a sister her enthusiasm for Kevin's skills between the sheets and Kate's face provided some much needed comic relief.

Yes, I laughed out loud at her "had me upside down...just use your imagination."

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I have to throw a little shade on the report card revelation scene. That was some kind of questionable. Way to fan the flames of sibling rivalry, Jack and Rebecca. At least it wouldn't have gone over well in my household, or my family of origin, either. 

Yeah, I don't ever remember my parents going over our report cards together. I have a general idea of what kind of grades my brother got (we were both generally good students, but had our weak spots - and I'm almost convinced he failed a class every year in high school just to have something to do over the summer), but they never discussed them with us in front of the other.

43 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

And to check into his background seemed like a sleazy thing for her to do and will cause mistrust issues.

Did she, though? She didn't seem to know anything that he himself didn't include in his public speeches. (Though I agree she should have told him at the beginning that she knew who he was. And leaving the coffee pot to sizzle like that was an unnecessary distraction.)

2 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

Thinking about the future of Kate and Jack, in the flash forward last season, when they are gathering for Rebecca who is presumably near the end, and we see Toby alone in the bed, wasn’t Kate on her way to join them with Jack in tow? She wasn’t shown but I thought someone was talking to her on the phone?

I believe the line was that "they" were on their way. It wasn't clear who "they" referred to.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

Thinking about the future of Kate and Jack, in the flash forward last season, when they are gathering for Rebecca who is presumably near the end, and we see Toby alone in the bed, wasn’t Kate on her way to join them with Jack in tow? She wasn’t shown but I thought someone was talking to her on the phone?

The show has been very vague about Kate in the flashforward.  Jack is mentioned with a "they" included, and Toby arrives by himself.  I personally don't think Kate is dead in the flashforward.  After this episode, we know Jack grows up in California in the same house.  I believe the flashforward of Rebecca's deathbed is 15 years into the future.  At that point Jack is a teenager.  If he was not with Toby at the hotel, then who is he with? 

At this point, it would not surprise me to see a car pull up with Jack, Kate and Madison in the future.  

[Lady Calypso]

6 hours ago, Ana88 said:

Pre-teen Kevin is my favorite of all time. I could watch episodes after episodes of flashbacks to that time. I also just think it's SUCH an impressionable time, so maybe the most crucial years for how the big 3 adults turn out, which is why I'm holding on to every second. It was so clear how much of an afterthought Kevin has been in that family dynamic. The whole grade thing, having to beg to go to a store for 5 mins with his mom, etc. I do find it really refreshing though how we see Rebecca and Jack are two loving parents but sometimes things or families just happen like that and a not so good dynamic gets started without it being the intention. The scene with Kevin and Rebecca at the store though just hit me! You literally could see how much it meant for him to get some positive reaction from his mom. The current timeline scenes were also really touching and Rebecca was so nice and assertive to say how nice of a trait Kevin has to make everything fun. It's these things he has been yearning to hear from her all these years. You can really tell how much this reconnection with his mom means to him. Just adorable! It's never too late. 

This is true. I think what I love about Pre-Teen Kevin is how complex he is. He's clearly acting out in his own way, not treating Randall very well and being a brat in general...but we also see, through Pre-Teen Kevin, how he ended up the way that he is. We see how Jack and Rebecca treat Kevin. We hear the comments and see what actions they take with Kevin compared to Kate/Randall. So, with Kevin, we can be frustrated with his behaviour but also see how he ended up the way that we see him today. 

Plus, the actor is just so damn good. He's bratty, but also incredibly charming. He's fascinating to watch because I can end up being annoyed with him in one scene, but feel totally sorry for him in another.

Just now, ams1001 said:

Pre-teen Kevin is my favorite of all time. I could watch episodes after episodes of flashbacks to that time. I also just think it's SUCH an impressionable time, so maybe the most crucial years for how the big 3 adults turn out, which is why I'm holding on to every second. It was so clear how much of an afterthought Kevin has been in that family dynamic. The whole grade thing, having to beg to go to a store for 5 mins with his mom, etc. I do find it really refreshing though how we see Rebecca and Jack are two loving parents but sometimes things or families just happen like that and a not so good dynamic gets started without it being the intention. The scene with Kevin and Rebecca at the store though just hit me! You literally could see how much it meant for him to get some positive reaction from his mom. The current timeline scenes were also really touching and Rebecca was so nice and assertive to say how nice of a trait Kevin has to make everything fun. It's these things he has been yearning to hear from her all these years. You can really tell how much this reconnection with his mom means to him. Just adorable! It's never too late. 

I agree. Inappropriate, yes, but also fairly funny and I could absolutely picture Kevin saying something like this as well, which adds to the compatibility of Madison/Kevin. Plus, Madison doesn't mean any harm in these comments. They're inappropriate to share with the sibling of the guy you just had sex with, but it doesn't make Madison a bad person. I actually really like the idea of Madison/Kevin.

[Packerbrewerbadger]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

have to admit that I loathe "Our House." I find it lazy to repeat a word that many times in a row ("very very very"). It's the same reason I instantly disliked that Bryan Adams song "Have You Ever Really Loved a Woman?" Tell me have you ever really, really re

Which is exactly my feeling about Gaga’s Shallow!  I like the beginning of the song, but come on , you couldn’t think of a better chorus🙄?

[Roxie]

Just another note about how good Pamela Adlon is.  She was the voice of the inimitable Bobby Hill, on "King of the Hill."

[Cheyanne11]

10 hours ago, HollyGoLitely333 said:

I'm so intrigued to see what will happen with Kate. She's shown with 4/5 year old Jack so we know she's around and in that house for a while. We know that Jack will grow up in that house at least throughout his teenage years. I continue to have a bad feeling in my gut about Kate's future.

On the one hand, they didn't show Toby in the teenaged Jack scenes, either.  On the other hand, with this show it's probably some sort of ominous foreboding.

Randall used to be my favorite, but now he's just annoying.  Kevin used to be my least favorite, now I'm loving him.  The Kevin/Rebecca scenes last night were golden--both adult version and with Pre-teen Kevin.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Cheyanne11

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

Next week is multiple-primary Super Tuesday in the U.S., and the show has only three episodes remaining this season. 

And network tv still relies on sweeps. They show new episodes in February which means reruns in March.

12 minutes ago, Roxie said:

Just another note about how good Pamela Adlon is.  She was the voice of the inimitable Bobby Hill, on "King of the Hill."

She was also Dolores Woodchuck in Grease 2 and Marcy Runkle on Californication which are two of the main things I know her for.

[gonzosgirrl]

45 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Loved that Randall called the dr. "Dr. Melfi" even after he made the Soprano reference.  and how much was the baseball card adult Kevin bought?  Was it $2?  This Cub fan remembers that player, I thought he had a cool last name.  I was 10.  LOL  

I think it was $200.

I don't know why it's shocking that the therapist knew who Randall was. He's a politician in the city in which they live (assuming the therapist is local), and he's also had some very public speeches, complete with near breakdowns. In this world of cellphones, there's no way that last one didn't make it to the news. Not to mention him chasing down and beating a mugger. I'd think it would behoove her to know her patient's persona outside of what he's showing her in person. Disclaimer: I've never been, or seen, a therapist, so this is completely just my feeling on it.

I wonder if the rift isn't so much Randall being jealous of Kevin/Rebecca as her actually telling Randall she wants Kevin to help her through this. It makes sense, Randall is across the country and has a demanding job and a family. Kate has her own issues with Jack Jr. Kevin is willing and able to help, both financially and time-wise. And most importantly, he's willing to give her the kind of help she wants and needs. If she has to tell Randall this to get him to back off, I can imagine that being why 'we' are not speaking with Randall a few months from now.

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

Good episode, but Randall's therapist is... uhhh.... something.

Randall should realize that the first therapist you see might not be the one for you - it took until the third one I saw to find the therapist that can help me. Beth should also realize that.

Yup.  Authorities in life are not always right - same goes with doctors, specialists, teachers, etc.  Sometimes it's a bad match and sometimes it's a great one.

56 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Loved that Randall called the dr. "Dr. Melfi" even after he made the Soprano reference.  and how much was the baseball card adult Kevin bought?  Was it $2?  This Cub fan remembers that player, I thought he had a cool last name.  I was 10.  LOL  

I think it was $2 in the 80s/90s (?) sequences, and it was $2 in the present.  That's what I think.  

Edited February 26, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[AriAu]

Quote

The show has been very vague about Kate in the flashforward.  Jack is mentioned with a "they" included, and Toby arrives by himself.  I personally don't think Kate is dead in the flashforward.  After this episode, we know Jack grows up in California in the same house. 

And I will point out that in the montage at the end, she is with Young Jack as a toddler, but we dont see her after that. Yeah, I know that he was "jamming" with his band or singing, but she was not there.

Quote

I was thrilled to see Rebecca and young Kevin actually bonding! 

And she was blowing big bubbles with the pink gum from the baseball card packs....showing that, as she said in the episode, Kevin brought out the fun side of her. 

By the way, John Candeleria ( aka The Candy Man) was in a Toronto Blue Jays uni and he didnt pitch there until late in his career. However, he is best known for pitching for the Pittsburgh Pirates (including on the "We are Family" 1979 championship team).....so of course Kevin loved him, even tho Kevin wasnt even born in 1979

And, yeah, Mandy Moore has a beautiful voice. and they do a wonderful job of making her look young, beautiful and almost angelic in some of those flashbacks.

 

[chitowngirl]

I loved how different Mandy Moore made her singing voice for the two different scenes of Our House. The present voice was still good, but sounded like a voice for a more mature non-professional singer. 
 

Randall also might start to resent Kevin because A)Kevin gets to be the one to help out with Mom and B)Kevin gets to be the “fun” one while Randall never gets to be that, even though that’s because Randall never lets himself be that.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't know why it's shocking that the therapist knew who Randall was. He's a politician in the city in which they live (assuming the therapist is local), and he's also had some very public speeches, complete with near breakdowns. In this world of cellphones, there's no way that last one didn't make it to the news. Not to mention him chasing down and beating a mugger. I'd think it would behoove her to know her patient's persona outside of what he's showing her in person. Disclaimer: I've never been, or seen, a therapist, so this is completely just my feeling on it.

I don't think it's the issue of her knowing who Randall is. It's how she dealt with his first therapy session that is the issue. I know I'm not an expert in therapy sessions, but I just really feel like she was too aggressive with it. So it's not about her knowing who Randall is; it's her interrupting him and telling him that she knows him because she's listened to his speeches. She doesn't know him personally, so shouldn't his first therapy session be more comforting in order to get him to come back?

It just seemed like a bad match. Let him vent or do whatever in the first therapy session. Progress won't happen overnight, but it also shouldn't be forced to the point where you're actively trying to rile him up. Again, not in his first therapy session, since I would assume that she should get to know him better. I don't care how many speeches she's seen him make; she doesn't know him personally.

So, it's why I didn't blame Randall for walking out. She was provoking him with the coffee maker and everything, fullstop. I wouldn't go bad to that therapist if I was him. 

 

[nkotb]

You've all covered this episode pretty well, but I did have 1 other thought that I haven't seen addressed. Toby "sketching" the garage-turned-studio for Kate, is a big deal. Like a Jack Pearson-level big deal. If Jack had done that for Rebecca, Kate would have loved it. When Toby does that, she's just a straight-up bitch to him. Kate just seems to hate Toby now, or, she did more prior to her brunch with Madison. I agree that Toby wasn't stepping up with Jack Damon, but he has legit been much better since the bonding weekend. Huge props to Madison for having the balls to point out to Kate, in a supportive way, that Kate wanted Toby to be honest, then was mad that he was honest about his feelings. 

I loved both Kevins with Rebecca. While she most definitely favors Randall, I think she's always known that Kevin is the one that she can really let loose with. Hearing her say that she wanted to skip the appointment broke my heart. As a cancer survivor, I know how much I wanted to freeze time & not go to the appointment where I was officially diagnosed. I knew it was coming, but hearing it made it real. 

I've thought that Kevin will wind up with Madison for the last few years. I agree that Madison saying that he saw her with no makeup, just her natural self, & he was still interested enough to have some wild, upside-down sex. He needs someone who's all in, willing to go Kill Bill on any Crossfit bitch, or anyone else who crosses him. I think it'd be a good match.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

She treated Randall like a lab rat.  She rattled his cage in order to provoke a reaction.  She clearly set things up in that room to trigger him.  That includes the coffee maker being on with no coffee pot underneath it at the time.  Also no cups with the water dispenser in the waiting room.   Those are rotten things to do.    I also don't think it is very professional.  Randall is seeing her for the first time and she pulls those stunts?  Awful.  Just awful.     

I thought she was kind of unprofessional. She should be in information-gathering mode for a first appointment, and she just put him in a free form mode of 'tell me what brings you here today', while letting something distracting continue to happen. She has no idea if he will ever come back, and should in my view try to provide some type of help beyond being provocative to a clearly easily provoked client.

 

[Zero260]

Current-day Kevin purchases the baseball card and inserts it into his wallet. At that very moment, Nash sings the line “I’ll light the fire ...”  If I’m correct, Kevin lost his baseball cards in the fire. I must admit, I choked back a tear. 

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, TV Diva Queen said:

and how much was the baseball card adult Kevin bought?  Was it $2? 

 

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think it was $200.

 

14 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think it was $2 in the 80s/90s (?) sequences, and it was $2 in the present.  That's what I think.  

Kevin was trying to complete the 1991 set and that was the only card he had left.  The store owner only had some packs left (14/16 I don't remember) so Kevin bought out the stock.  His total was $8.40.  They found the card he was looking for... what that card would have been if bought as a one off from a dealer?  I have no idea but Rebecca spent 8.40 cents on that card and theoretically maybe some of those other cards he could have sold or traded.

That guy didn't become a huge star so his card these days is worth $2.00 but is likely priceless to Kevin who has that special memory with his mom.   He doesn't, however, need to keep it in mint condition because like Rebecca's record collection all of his 1991 baseball cards were lost in the fire.

I liked the part that they both were replacing something they lost in the fire but it was about the memory rather than the possession.   

And I liked the little, "Pay the man" Kevin did to the his mom when the baseball cards were 8.40 cents.   Such a realistic kid/mom moment.   

 

[ams1001]

15 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

So it's not about her knowing who Randall is; it's her interrupting him and telling him that she knows him because she's listened to his speeches. She doesn't know him personally, so shouldn't his first therapy session be more comforting in order to get him to come back?

I thought that was her point...she was trying to point out that he was only sharing his "public" self, the "inspirational" story he puts out there for everyone, not his real self that he needs to expose if he's going to get anything out of therapy. Which she should... but maybe not in the first five minutes.

7 minutes ago, Zero260 said:

Current-day Kevin purchases the baseball card and inserts it into his wallet. At that very moment, Nash sings the line “I’ll light the fire ...”  If I’m correct, Kevin lost his baseball cards in the fire. I must admit, I choked back a tear. 

I did think of that fact...but I am so bad at noticing music in shows/movies. I really should pay more attention to the background music, especially with this show.

[gonzosgirrl]

25 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't think it's the issue of her knowing who Randall is. It's how she dealt with his first therapy session that is the issue. I know I'm not an expert in therapy sessions, but I just really feel like she was too aggressive with it. So it's not about her knowing who Randall is; it's her interrupting him and telling him that she knows him because she's listened to his speeches. She doesn't know him personally, so shouldn't his first therapy session be more comforting in order to get him to come back?

It just seemed like a bad match. Let him vent or do whatever in the first therapy session. Progress won't happen overnight, but it also shouldn't be forced to the point where you're actively trying to rile him up. Again, not in his first therapy session, since I would assume that she should get to know him better. I don't care how many speeches she's seen him make; she doesn't know him personally.

So, it's why I didn't blame Randall for walking out. She was provoking him with the coffee maker and everything, fullstop. I wouldn't go bad to that therapist if I was him. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I thought she was kind of unprofessional. She should be in information-gathering mode for a first appointment, and she just put him in a free form mode of 'tell me what brings you here today', while letting something distracting continue to happen. She has no idea if he will ever come back, and should in my view try to provide some type of help beyond being provocative to a clearly easily provoked client.

 

This makes sense, and I agree about the provoking being odd/unprofessional. I just didn't think he should be so shocked and affronted that she knew who he was and had 'googled him'.

Again, asking as someone who has never done therapy, is it believable or even reasonable that a guy who has been hospitalized for an anxiety attacks, even had what might be considered a nervous breakdown, has never seen any kind of therapist? Wouldn't it be mandated at some point during all that?

Edited February 26, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Ohiopirate02]

Watching Randall's therapy session, I can see why many would see her behaving unprofessionally.  This is Randall's first visit, and no trust has been built at that moment.  I can't help but shake the feeling that his whole therapy arc was cut to fit into one episode and we got the tv show timeline.  The showrunners packed way too much into the scenes to get Randall to the point of his second appointment which probably should have been at least his fifth.  She needed to break down Randall's defenses by the end of the episode so we got an extremely intense session the first go round.  

[ShadowFacts]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Again, asking as someone who has never done therapy, is it believable or even reasonable that a guy who has been hospitalized for an anxiety attacks, even had what might be considered a nervous breakdown, has never seen any kind of therapist? Wouldn't it be mandated at some point during all that?

It can't be mandated, it would be recommended but the patient is free to do it or not. As we've seen, he has been very resistant.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

It can't be mandated, it would be recommended but the patient is free to do it or not. As we've seen, he has been very resistant.

I guess, if they didn't see him as a danger to himself, but his breakdown when he was huddled in a corner and called Kevin for help was pretty severe. At the least his family should have insisted on it before now. Beth's speech last night was great, but long overdue.

[Dowel Jones]

I have to wonder how Randall even gets through a public city council meeting sometimes.  It's the epitome of not being in control of the situation, with the real possibility of everyone else on the council ganging up on him on some issue.

[Empress1]

26 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Again, asking as someone who has never done therapy, is it believable or even reasonable that a guy who has been hospitalized for an anxiety attacks, even had what might be considered a nervous breakdown, has never seen any kind of therapist? Wouldn't it be mandated at some point during all that?

Edited 23 minutes ago by gonzosgirrl

No. It’s very, very hard to make an adult do anything. Sometimes people get court-appointed rehab or anger management if they’ve committed a crime. Randall’s anxiety and breakdowns haven’t risen to the level of “danger to myself or others.” He’s an adult who can make his own decisions - no one can force him to go to therapy.

I have a cousin with bipolar disorder. At his worst, which is WAY worse than Randall, he’s been on 72-hour holds. That’s it.

[kili]

Stewart was the boy that Kate was set up to meet at the pool. Since "Pool 2" happened at the end of summer and it lasted until first report card, that's actually a pretty decently long time for a Grade 7 romance.  So much for Marc being her first boyfriend. Kate is always so dramatic.

If Stewart is the first waffle to be thrown in the trash, what does that make Marc?

I wish, for once, Rebecca and Jack would tell Randall to stop belittling Kevin's intelligence. His incredulous "what?" when he found out that Kevin had As, to the dismissing them as not counting to his betting Kevin $5 that he doesn't know what 5x2 is (Kevin should have said "10" and stuck out his hand for five more dollars). There is countless incidents where Randall does that and it is beyond unacceptable. 

Kevin has the most issues on his report card? Whatever.  Let's focus on Randall and Kate. 

I wonder if Jack and Rebecca's behaviour made Randall and Kate worse. Kate gets rewarded with attention, compliments and whatever she wants for dinner when she is overly dramatic reinforcing her tendency to do so. Randall gets rewarded with attention and compliments when he is anxious reinforcing that he was right to be anxious. Kevin gets rewarded for nothing good or bad (unless he makes a stand), so he just does whatever he wants and looks externally for rewards (attention in school for acting up and hanging with Sophie's Mom. Even from the dude at the card store who knows Kevin, appreciates his collection and seems to like him). 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I laughed at Rebecca calling the baseball player John Candeleria, Candle-Malaria!

I recognized Pamela Adlon's voice immediately so it was really frustrating for me that they didn't show her face until the end. I totally get why they did it that way, though.

I don't think she (the therapist) did anything wrong with Randall. I think all of the things that annoyed Randall so much says way more about him than it does about her. A lot of people like Randall see the world as out to get them when it reality, a lot of stuff has nothing to do with them. It's their reaction to every minor thing that creates the problems. The therapist had a painting up that she liked, Randall hated it but it's not like he even had to look at it--it was behind him! The outdated magazines? Maybe she spends more time thinking about more important things than putting out magazines. The fact that she heard his speeches? Like he said, he's a public figure. She probably actually attended some of his events. Even if she didn't, I doubt she did a deep dive into social media on him. The coffee maker? She just forgot to turn it off. That's not the end of the world. I bet if Randall asked her to turn it off the first time, she would have been fine with it. The fact that it annoys him so much but he doesn't do anything about it was a window into his issues. None of those things were about Randall but Randall thought they all had to do with her manipulating him somehow.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

A lot of people like Randall see the world as out to get them when it reality, a lot of stuff has nothing to do with them.

Yeah, and a lot of those type of people see therapists.  Being a therapist requires EXTRA empathy, not the apathetic lack of empathy one stranger has for another.  That's the job.  Of course a lot of patients are going to be difficult.  Of course a lot of patients will be there against their will.  I have a friend who is a therapist specifically for people who are court mandated to go to therapy.  Do you think those patients are easy?  Randall has anxiety.  So?  It's the therapist's job to ease it, to be approachable by Randall so that he can get some help.  I don't know why so many people see therapy as this game where the patient must be cowered and the therapist must win.

Some people go to therapy and are just crying the whole time.  That's why you always see boxes of Kleenexes and water readily available.  The therapist should try to make the patient feel comfortable.  It's not really the therapist's job to combat you like a boxer and hope that you get knocked out.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

None of those things were about Randall but Randall thought they all had to do with her manipulating him somehow.

I'm sure that this is an extremely common thing for patients of therapy.  It's not going to be cured by minute one.  Why add to that feeling of anxiety when you could try to lessen it as much as possible at the outset?