S02.E11: Mud Turtles, A Good Steak, and One Man in a Tub

[DB in CMH]

This show is missing the mark for me in so many ways. It feels like none of the characters have any sort of momentum whatsoever, and feel so far removed from what they were in the original show that it all just rings false.

The show has no heart, which the original anyways did. Harris choosing not to go to college could have been a moment with real emotional impact, but instead it was played off as a joke. Even last season was better than this, dealing with the fall out from Roseanne's death.

This is weird for me to say because Roseanne is in my top two programs ever, but I'm pretty much done with the reboot. 

[chocolatine]

While it's probably nobody's dream growing up, I'm glad Harris made the practical choice to get a business degree online while working full-time. Darlene, whose education and career choices led her to moving back in with her parents in her 40s, should have kept her mouth shut from the start. If Harris is indeed a talented writer, she can continue writing in her spare time, and if it doesn't work out - like it didn't for Darlene - at least she'll be able to fall back on her debt-free business degree.

I liked the slow build of Dan's and Luise's relationship, so I'm glad he didn't ask her to skip the tour because he wasn't ready for that level of commitment.

I wonder how Odessa makes money, since her apartment is really nice. All the furniture and decor is coordinated and looks new. I shudder to think that she might be dealing drugs or have a sugar daddy or something like that (and I doubt her parents are paying for everything).

 

[MsTree]

4 hours ago, SassyCat said:

I'm not a regular watcher of this show and I thoroughly enjoyed last nights show. I thought Laurie Metcalf was absolutely hysterical in her new friendship with Cheryl Hines. I'm glad it turned out to be a real friendship so far. That Huge painting of her she hauled into the diner had me literally rolling on the floor laughing. Was great entertainment. I'm going to watch more often now.

I enjoyed last night's show too, and look forward to more Laurie & Cheryl.

To me, Laurie (as Jackie) makes the entire show. I could watch her 24/7 and have no problem with her character's behavior. Of course, I don't read as much into a sitcom character as others do...and perhaps that's why I can still enjoy everything she says/does.

[JenLily]

19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I also agree with Darlene that the college was involved in what amounts to a scam. They send out letters of acceptance to low-income students promising to "help" them only to lure them into taking out loans it will take them 20 years to pay off. They are probably in business with the institutions that give out those loans and are encouraged to do this sort of thing.

Unless this was a for-profit school (which they never indicated it was), I didn't. In fact, I was surprised that neither Darlene nor Harris had looked into financial aid before walking into that office. When I was applying for college, my high school counselor assisted me in looking for all sorts of scholarships and grants that I applied for long before I was accepted into any college. I would imagine nowadays it would be even easier to find some "free money" with the internet available at their fingertips. Granted, I never approached any of my prospective colleges' financial offices for packages but that was because I researched my schools and was informed about their tuition and what I would need to do to pay it *before* I chose to accept one. I certainly didn't expect any of them to do that for me. Honestly, this whole thing seemed like a piss-poor attempt at a "relevant" storyline.

13 hours ago, rmontro said:

As other people have said, I'm sure there are other aid options for Harris available.  It was funny that Darlene told that lady her check would bounce, but it wasn't really her fault what the school's policy was.  So lambasting her might have made Darlene feel good, but it didn't really accomplish anything.

I thought it was really rude of Darlene to treat that woman the way she did.

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

While it's probably nobody's dream growing up, I'm glad Harris made the practical choice to get a business degree online while working full-time. Darlene, whose education and career choices led her to moving back in with her parents in her 40s, should have kept her mouth shut from the start. If Harris is indeed a talented writer, she can continue writing in her spare time, and if it doesn't work out - like it didn't for Darlene - at least she'll be able to fall back on her debt-free business degree.

I was really surprised that Darlene of all people would be encouraging Harris to get a fine arts degree when Darlene's degree has led her nowhere. I'm not saying all fine arts degrees will see you jobless and living with your dad or anything but if I'd had Darlene's experience, I would've been all for her getting a business degree first and telling her she can go back and get a degree in writing later on when she has extra income. Harris can always continue writing in the meantime.

I can't quite remember. Did they ever say how Darlene paid for art school? Did she get a full-ride scholarship? She doesn't seem to talk about having to pay off any school debt as part of her money issues.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

The toilet is in a different place than it used to be, and that kept distracting me during the scene of Dan in the bathtub.

I got distracted by the lack of wall on the end of the tub where Dan's head was. Do they have one of those curtain rods that goes all the way around the whole top?

Quote

Darlene’s school was never named.  She studied writing, so it was unlikely that it was the School of the Art Institute of Chicago – a great institution like the Savannah College of Art and Design.  Her school apparently also taught Dance, because Darlene dated a dancer at one point. I always assumed that her school was one of those for-profit schools that spring up and shut down in old shopping centers.  Darlene lived in a crappy apartment and not a dorm room – a non-profit accredited school would be more likely to include student housing (or Darlene chose not to live in dorm). 

Quote

(which probably wasn't really college in the four year sense, perhaps like Art Institute-type school)

I went to a school in Philly that was for both visual and performing arts (and no, it was not in a shopping center, haha--it was right in the middle of Broad Street, which made fire drills...interesting, and probably very annoying to passersby. And, yes, it was indeed a "normal" 4-year college), and even though there were dorms, I too lived in a "crappy*" apartment because it was much cheaper (especially when one was expected to buy more and more art supplies daily and the schedule was not conducive to having a job). I assume Darlene's school and situation were similar to that. 

*That apartment was 2 floors, and had 2 big BRs, 2 small ones, LR, DR, roof access, and washer/dryer (and a garbage disposal! For some reason, I really dug that). For $525/month! I won't lie; I wish I had something that crappy NOW, man.

Edited January 30, 2020 by TattleTeeny

[UYI]

1 hour ago, JenLily said:

I can't quite remember. Did they ever say how Darlene paid for art school? Did she get a full-ride scholarship? She doesn't seem to talk about having to pay off any school debt as part of her money issues.

IIRC, she worked at the school bookstore, at least at first. 

[MrsEVH]

On 1/28/2020 at 8:11 PM, ESS said:

Yeah, but she could do both so I'm not counting Louise out just yet..

The new show might not work out so she could come back. I've seen it done before.

Edited January 30, 2020 by MrsEVH

[peacheslatour]

Quote

 went to a school in Philly that was for both visual and performing arts (and no, it was not in a shopping center, haha; it was right in the middle of Broad Street--which made fire drills...interesting, and probably very annoying to passersby. And, yes, it was indeed a "normal" 4-year college), and even though there were dorms, I too lived in a "crappy*" apartment because it was much cheaper (especially when one was expected to buy more and more art supplies daily and the schedule was not conducive to having a job). I assume Darlene's school and situation were similar to that. 

There is a fine arts college here in Seattle (Cornish) it's near the UW and it's also a four year degree with scholarships and the usual grants. IIRC, Darlene got a full boat plus an allowance of $100. a month (later lowered to $75.00 when Roseanne was expecting Jerry) from her parents and she worked at the school's radio station. 

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, JenLily said:

I was really surprised that Darlene of all people would be encouraging Harris to get a fine arts degree when Darlene's degree has led her nowhere

They seem to be putting forth the idea that "Hey, we're Conners, we can do everything right, work hard, own our own business, and get a degree, but we're always going to be living in poverty."  If Harris becomes successful, they'll probably all be sponging off of her, or ban her from the family lol.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

They seem to be putting forth the idea that "Hey, we're Conners, we can do everything right, work hard, own our own business, and get a degree, but we're always going to be living in poverty."  If Harris becomes successful, they'll probably all be sponging off of her, or ban her from the family lol.

I remember when Darlene was putting the family down when she was in college and the family resented her (and rightly so, she was being an ass) and she got a job offer where she'd be making more than any of them ever made and she turned it down because she wanted to finish her education. They all had a fit and said she would become one of "Them", the "Other". I've heard it phrased in some communities as "getting above your raising" which is a a really good way to hold your children back from having successful lives.

Edited January 30, 2020 by peacheslatour

[qtpye]

59 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I remember when Darlene was putting the family down when she was in college and the family resented her (and rightly so, she was being an ass) and she got a job offer where she's be making more than any of them ever made and she turned it down because she wanted to finish her education. They all had a fit and said she would become one of "Them", the "Other". I've heard it phrased in some communities as "getting above your raising" which is a a really good way to hold your children back from having successful lives.

The Connors could be extremely rude to people that were simply doing better than them. I remember when Chip’s parents came over for dinner. Dan was making fun of them behind their backs for being dorks and Roseanne was not much better. The parents were perfectly nice people.

I was also befuddled with why Darlene would want Harris to get a writing degree when Darlene’s degree has not seemed to do her much good.

[TV Diva Queen]

21 hours ago, izabella said:

I'm questioning that online degree.  I highly doubt "PriceMart" has a tuition reimbursement program for any employees, much less brand new ones that just started, and "online universities" tend to be scams.

If Darlene had been the planning type, she'd have moved in with her boss/bf in Chicago when she had the chance and brought the kids with her.  If Harris had graduated high school with a B average, she would have been able to go to a Chicago Community College for free, including books.  She'd have been able to work part time, too, and maybe save up to finish a 4 year degree after the first two at Community College. 

except that she doesn't live in Chicago.  Perhaps she could have gone to Elgin Community College.

[Bastet]

Darlene's degree did her plenty of good; she spent 15+ years doing what she loved, but being the sole provider for her family for most of that time meant she didn't have much in savings, so job loss made moving back in with her parents a financial necessity when she didn't find anything else right away.  Now Roseanne is dead, Becky has a child ... if things were still "normal" in the Conner household, and if this was reality, Darlene would have been looking for jobs in Chicago all this time, found one, and moved back by now.  Instead, the family situation - and the fact she's a sitcom character, so won't ever move out - means she's finding what she can in Lanford.

As for how she paid for school, she got a scholarship for tuition, and was offered a work-study job at the bookstore to pay for meals and books (but that was with her living in the dorm, and she wound up in that apartment, so I don't know).  Dan and Roseanne gave her a small allowance every month, too.

Oh, and the one time the school was identified, when Darlene and David got their acceptance/rejection letters, it was called the "College of Creative Arts" - one in NY (that Darlene wanted to go to, because Roseanne's cousin Ronnie [Joan Collins], Lanford's only success story, was going to let her live with her and loan her the money for tuition, but she didn't get in) and the one in Chicago.

[SassyCat]

11 hours ago, MsTree said:

I enjoyed last night's show too, and look forward to more Laurie & Cheryl.

To me, Laurie (as Jackie) makes the entire show. I could watch her 24/7 and have no problem with her character's behavior. Of course, I don't read as much into a sitcom character as others do...and perhaps that's why I can still enjoy everything she says/does.

Well I am sold! That was pure comedy gold! I am going to have to dig up some reruns and start watching them all, not just for the hilarious Jackie show (which now I am hooked on), but I thought the writing was really good and everyone on the show had some incredibly funny one line zingers. Alot of them! Made me laugh, and that's a good thing ;)

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

except that she doesn't live in Chicago. 

But she would have if she did what the original poster said. 

Quote

 (but that was with her living in the dorm, and she wound up in that apartment, so I don't know)

Maybe the apartment was part of/rented through the school somehow? 

Edited January 30, 2020 by TattleTeeny

[BeachDays]

I just watched the ep and I enjoyed it-  I love when we get to see the love between the characters.  And Harris is definitely less annoying now-  I actually like her this month!  Hopefully that continues.   But man, the fact that David isn’t on the show is super strange bc they just ignore him completely.   He was becoming an involved dad and now it’s like he’s in a different country again.   I have a feeling he will pop back in again at some point at the end of the season but weird that Harris moves out, tries to go to college, and her dad is never mentioned like he doesn’t exist.   Love the talk with Dan and Darlene and how they supported Harris at the end.

I was sad about Dan and Louise.   I hope she comes back at some point.  I suppose this way is more “realistic” but I just like seeing the Conners be happy.   And it didn’t occur to me until later that we didn’t see Mark or DJ at all in the episode.   I wonder if they were never in it or if their scenes got cut.  But it was fine, this gave the other storylines room to breathe.  
 

I didn’t know where they were going with the Jackie and Dawn storyline at first but I enjoyed that as well-  it’s great for Jackie to have a friend.   Again, it’s my wanting to see these folks actually happy.   
 

  

[ESS]

6 hours ago, MrsEVH said:

The new show might not work out so she could come back. I've seen it done before.

Yes I agree that also could happen, but I'd love it if she did both. 

[methodwriter85]

On 1/29/2020 at 9:36 AM, ChaChaSlide said:

Harris’ plan made way more sense in this era, so I’m happy she got her way. Acquiring that type of debt for a liberal arts degree is completely asinine, and even with significant scholarships there would still be way more out of pocket with less in return than the online business degree. She can always pursue her her dream degree as a working woman and can afford it without debt/significantly less debt. 

I really related to this, as a 30-something barista with an 80k liberal arts degree I know that I will be paying off for the rest of my life. A lot of me and my peers just got boned hard by the Great Recession, and we're never really going to recover. If I had it to do all over again, I would've done what my sister did- she got an associate's degree from a community college, and then pursued more education on her job's dime.

My college is an even more expensive now than it was when I went- you're looking at 100k for undergrad, easily.

At said barista job I've been noticing a lot more people following Harris's example- going to school online or at cheaper non-residential colleges, or doing the community college/then college route. Pursuing the Felicity college experience just isn't practical unless you can get a full ride or your parents can actually pay for it.

[TattleTeeny]

You made me curious; I just looked up my old school's current tuition. Yikes.
 

Quote

The annual tuition and living expense budget to go to UArts was $67,741 for the 2018/2019 academic year. The cost is the same for all students regardless of Pennsylvania residence status as there is no in-state discount.

 

[qtpye]

20 hours ago, Bastet said:

Darlene's degree did her plenty of good; she spent 15+ years doing what she loved, but being the sole provider for her family for most of that time meant she didn't have much in savings, so job loss made moving back in with her parents a financial necessity when she didn't find anything else right away.  Now Roseanne is dead, Becky has a child ... if things were still "normal" in the Conner household, and if this was reality, Darlene would have been looking for jobs in Chicago all this time, found one, and moved back by now.  Instead, the family situation - and the fact she's a sitcom character, so won't ever move out - means she's finding what she can in Lanford.

As for how she paid for school, she got a scholarship for tuition, and was offered a work-study job at the bookstore to pay for meals and books (but that was with her living in the dorm, and she wound up in that apartment, so I don't know).  Dan and Roseanne gave her a small allowance every month, too.

Oh, and the one time the school was identified, when Darlene and David got their acceptance/rejection letters, it was called the "College of Creative Arts" - one in NY (that Darlene wanted to go to, because Roseanne's cousin Ronnie [Joan Collins], Lanford's only success story, was going to let her live with her and loan her the money for tuition, but she didn't get in) and the one in Chicago.

I have many friends in the writing field who are (also sole providers for their kids) who are doing just fine and have easily survived all the economic downturns.

If you spend 15 years in a profession and the best you can do is is go in for a bank loan for a print magazine in an economically depressed area means you did not build a career in the proper manner.

However, I always thought Darlene’s failures in life was a plot contrivance to get her back to Landford.

It made plenty of sense for young Darlene to get a writing degree. She got a full scholarship and she did not have many options. However, has she even established that writing is even Harris’s passion? She got that article published but might have other interests that she would rather pursue. They even kind of confirmed in the episode that Darlene was pushing her dreams onto Harris instead of thinking what was best for her daughter. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

If you spend 15 years in a profession and the best you can do is is go in for a bank loan for a print magazine in an economically depressed area means you did not build a career in the proper manner.

I don't think this is necessarily true. It's already a competitive field and, in recent years, the idea of "desktop publishing" has convinced tons and tons of employers that they don't need someone who has a degree, or even experience, in writing. Same is true for editorial--not that there's a degree for it, but even just dumb spell-check has given business entities the completely stupid idea that we're an unnecessary expense.

Edited January 31, 2020 by TattleTeeny

[andipandi]

As a parent with a kid just applying to colleges, there is a FAFSA form for financial aid that all colleges use, and some colleges have their own system. It can be linked to your taxes. Darlene in the fall should have done her FAFSA, and CSS, and college board, and.... agh I have FAFSA PTSD.

Wonder if Harris declares herself independent, she might do even better.

College board also has a site that lists all the scholarships you can apply to, but it's overwhelming.

[HurricaneVal]

I think they're going to morph the Jackie character into her mother.  It really hit me in that scene where Jackie was wearing a beret exactly like Bev does.  That was a massive anvil, and as I thought back on it, it seems that's where they're going with her.  Bev is famously a bitter, mean, and selfish person.  And Jackie........is getting there.  Yeah, she's still goofy, but now it is more like demented goofy, not sweet goofy.  The irony is that Jackie has always hated her mother, but now she's becoming her mother.

[MarthaEllisanne]

Did it occur to anyone else that with the exit of Louise that Dawn could become a romantic interest for Dan? That would really send Jackie into a tailspin.

[peacheslatour]

25 minutes ago, MarthaEllisanne said:

Did it occur to anyone else that with the exit of Louise that Dawn could become a romantic interest for Dan? That would really send Jackie into a tailspin.

Boy, that really would considering Jackie's decades old crush on Dan. But my god, that look Dan gave Louise when she was wiping the soap off of his face made me feel funny in my jeans. IYKWIMAITYD.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I wonder how Odessa makes money, since her apartment is really nice. All the furniture and decor is coordinated and looks new. I shudder to think that she might be dealing drugs or have a sugar daddy or something like that (and I doubt her parents are paying for everything).

I seem to recall Harris saying that Odessa had lived on her own since she was 16. From that I inferred that her parents were wealthy and constantly traveling or working abroad or something. As you noted her apartment is well kept, not the slovenly hovel you'd expect a druggie to live in.

[peacheslatour]

25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I seem to recall Harris saying that Odessa had lived on her own since she was 16. From that I inferred that her parents were wealthy and constantly traveling or working abroad or something. As you noted her apartment is well kept, not the slovenly hovel you'd expect a druggie to live in.

Is she a druggie?

[TattleTeeny]

I thought she was just a weed fan.

[peacheslatour]

22 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

I thought she was just a weed fan.

Same here.

[Pallas]

On 1/31/2020 at 3:40 PM, MarthaEllisanne said:

Did it occur to anyone else that with the exit of Louise that Dawn could become a romantic interest for Dan? That would really send Jackie into a tailspin.

It would. At least at first, and especially while her friendship with Dawn is still brand-new and untested over time. But is it possible that after some time has passed, Jackie might come to like this re-making of the old order? Once again, the woman she's closest to would be Dan's partner. But this time, Jackie would be the insider, the family member, the one with history and ties to everyone. 

Or, Cheryl Hines = Matthew Broderick, and Jackie's back to lionizing the next person willing to use her. 

[msrachelj]

On 1/29/2020 at 2:12 PM, Bastet said:

Yeah, I like Louise and the trajectory of their relationship, but she made me cringe in that scene -- way too thirsty, saying she'd turn down what is probably her last opportunity to tour if he wanted her to stay.  WTF?  It was only for 3-6 months!  You don't turn that down to avoid being away from a spouse, let alone a friend (especially in this day and age, when it's so easy and cheap to communicate).  Hell, people are away from their children for long stretches for work they don't even like.  Getting paid to do the thing you love?  Pack your bags! 

Yes, that was how Harris presented it - as something she'd be able to do for that price through the employer's program.

 

Agreed. Louise should’ve gone on the tour and then come back and seen a better relationship with Dan. What  kind of shit is this in 2020 women giving up on a life goal,  a once-in-a-lifetime chance to be with a man?!🤢

  

[TattleTeeny]

Was it once in a lifetime? I thought she had already toured in the past.

[Browncoat]

It was more like last-in-a-lifetime -- she said it was most likely the last time she'd be able (or invited) to tour.

[msrachelj]

41 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Was it once in a lifetime? I thought she had already toured in the past.

True, but this is her last chance as she said.

[TattleTeeny]

OK. Haha, I was thinking, "Wow, Louise--you're an inspiration to all the musicians in their late 40s that I know!"

ETA: Did I just miss a perfect opportunity to say "Jeez Louise"?

Edited February 2, 2020 by TattleTeeny

[SoMuchTV]

3 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

OK. Haha, I was thinking, "Wow, Louise--you're an inspiration to all the musicians in their late 40s that I know!"

As someone who's younger than Katey (but looks older 😞 ), I'd take "late 40's" in a heartbeat!  (She's 66, if I did my math right.)

Or did I miss a joke where she was passing as late 40's?

Edited February 2, 2020 by SoMuchTV
2nd thoughts

[Pallas]

 

16 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

OK. Haha, I was thinking, "Wow, Louise--you're an inspiration to all the musicians in their late 40s that I know!"

True, but check back with them in another 20 years...If Louise started touring out of high school, this was another chance for her to do something she'd been doing, off and on, for close to 50 years. This gig isn't leading anywhere; it's something she loves, and/but not something she'll be doing a year from now. It's something she loves, but it's not an opportunity. 

Meanwhile, her relationship with Dan is an opportunity, and one she never imagined she'd receive. Intimacy, sex, loving comfort and fun with a man she's known all her life, still likes and even admires, after all that time. What Louise wants with Dan isn't something she has, or may ever have had. And it couldn't be otherwise, since she's never before been closer to 70 than 60, and about to retire from the road. That makes any new love really new. 

It was a mistake though, I believe, for Louise to put the decision on Dan. Even though I understand her wanting him to make the next move, and own it. It still became an ultimatum -- if I stay, then we're a couple, right? It wouldn't have worked, even if he'd agreed.

Louise might have done them both a favor if she'd simply told Dan that she'd been asked to go on tour, and said yes. The next move would really have been his, then. And they'd have had the chance to see what happened before and after she left. 

[Yogisbooboo64]

On 1/30/2020 at 9:12 AM, TattleTeeny said:

I got distracted by the lack of wall on the end of the tub where Dan's head was. Do they have one of those curtain rods that goes all the way around the whole top?

I went to a school in Philly that was for both visual and performing arts (and no, it was not in a shopping center, haha--it was right in the middle of Broad Street, which made fire drills...interesting, and probably very annoying to passersby. And, yes, it was indeed a "normal" 4-year college), and even though there were dorms, I too lived in a "crappy*" apartment because it was much cheaper (especially when one was expected to buy more and more art supplies daily and the schedule was not conducive to having a job). I assume Darlene's school and situation were similar to that. 

*That apartment was 2 floors, and had 2 big BRs, 2 small ones, LR, DR, roof access, and washer/dryer (and a garbage disposal! For some reason, I really dug that). For $525/month! I won't lie; I wish I had something that crappy NOW, man.

Did the apartment building happen to be the Marine Club at Broad and Washington Avenue?

[Yogisbooboo64]

On 1/31/2020 at 4:07 PM, peacheslatour said:

But my god, that look Dan gave Louise when she was wiping the soap off of his face made me feel funny in my jeans. IYKWIMAITYD.

I was actually blushing....then I  would have 'accidentally' fallen into the tub and made sure my top got soaked.

[cmahorror]

On 1/29/2020 at 12:10 PM, Jillybean said:

I don't totally get Dan's reluctance to move forward with Louise. I know he and Roseanne were together forever, but there's a general trend for widows to remarry -- or at least, couple up -- quickly.

I have been a widow for a lot longer than Dan (14 years last month) and I haven't really dated since then. First I was worried about raising my kids and then my daughter and grandkids moved in with me. I concentrated on work and them and I have no regrets about it.

Now I work 2 jobs and go to school full-time and I love it. As much as I loved and still love my husband, it is not his memory that has me tentative about moving on with another man, it is the fact that for the first time in my life I finally have a little freedom to explore who I am now and what that means. Dan spent years with Roseanne and, as much as they loved each other, they never really knew adult life without each other. This is not something you can adjust to over night. 

In addition, I think Dan has some fear over how Roseanne died. This was a woman he had been with for over forty years, who he thought he knew better than anyone, and she was hiding this huge secret that ended up killing her. That is a severe breach in trust and when the person you love most harbors a deadly secret like that, one that has you questioning whether you really knew them at all, trusting another person with your heart again is not an easy thing.

All that being said, I really hope Louise comes back and they continue their friendship and keep the possibility open for more.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

True, but check back with them in another 20 years...If Louise started touring out of high school, this was another chance for her to do something she'd been doing, off and on, for close to 50 years. This gig isn't leading anywhere; it's something she loves, and/but not something she'll be doing a year from now. It's something she loves, but it's not an opportunity. 

I wasn't arguing this--I was actually kind of making the same point you are in response to another poster who mistakenly referred to this tour as a "once in a lifetime opportunity" for Louise. All I meant was that, if it really had been her first touring opportunity, she as a person in her 60s would be inspirational to the "old" (but  younger than Louise) musicians who haven't toured.

Also, check back with them about what in 20 years?

Quote

 

As someone who's younger than Katey (but looks older 😞 ), I'd take "late 40's" in a heartbeat!  (She's 66, if I did my math right.)

Or did I miss a joke where she was passing as late 40's?

 

You didn't miss anything; just a comment about "old" musicians, of which I know about a bazillion (and they seem to all know each other).

Quote

Did the apartment building happen to be the Marine Club at Broad and Washington Avenue?

No, Carpenter Street.

Edited February 3, 2020 by TattleTeeny

[Phoebe70]

Reading all these posts about how hilarious Jackie is...are we watching the same show? I can’t stand Jackie anymore. In the earlier episodes of Roseanne she was always a little insecure and neurotic, but likable. In The Conners she is just plain looney and not in a funny way. She never speaks in a normal tone of voice, she’s always shrieking. Her actions are just too over-the-top to make her believable or relatable.  I thought this episode bordered on creepy. I was waiting for Jackie to confess her romantic love to Cheryl Hines’ character. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Phoebe70
Punctuation

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

15 hours ago, Phoebe70 said:

Reading all these posts about how hilarious Jackie is...are we watching the same show? I can’t stand Jackie anymore. In the earlier episodes of Roseanne she was always a little insecure and neurotic, but likable. In The Conners she is just plain looney and not in a funny way.

IMHO as an armchair psychologist, I think Jackie's on the verge of a nervous breakdown. She's always depended on Roseanne as a moderator for her emotions and life. Now she has to manage her own emotions and she's obviously not too good at it. She's unmarried with no friends, with her elderly mother living with her (who she can't stand) and no job prospects (well, now the Lunchbox). Plus the dynamics have changed with Becky - her niece is now her partner and seeming like a pretty smart one as well. I'm still hoping something happens for Jackie that ties into her past - either Andy coming back for a visit or perhaps Fred popping in briefly. I really enjoy when the current show gets tied into the past. 

[theredhead77]

On one hand, I really feel bad for Louise but on the other hand, she has been sticking around hoping Dan would come around to a more intimate relationship. I'm glad she chose to go off on tour (and even if KS didn't have another show I would hope she would have moved forward with her life instead of pining for a man not ready to date).

On 1/31/2020 at 1:05 PM, andipandi said:

Wonder if Harris declares herself independent, she might do even better.

She can't. Harris doesn't meet any of the criteria. Had Darlene filled out her portion of the FASFA it may have helped Harris get some grants but she has income from her job and doesn't seem to be paying rent.

I'm glad Harris chose to take the job with the college assistance to make a solid effort at changing her life circumstances. I think she and Mark will break the cycle of poverty. I'm also glad they really highlighted the BS college financial aid offices will pull. 

 

On 1/29/2020 at 4:34 PM, izabella said:

I'm questioning that online degree.  I highly doubt "PriceMart" has a tuition reimbursement program for any employees, much less brand new ones that just started, and "online universities" tend to be scams.

 

On 1/29/2020 at 5:34 PM, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

(also there are lots of reputable colleges that offer online degrees). 

 

On 1/29/2020 at 7:36 PM, tessaray said:

As someone who completed their BA online, I disagree. In fact, having taken classes both on and offline, online courses are WAY more work. Since the instructor can't evaluate you in person, there tends to be more writing assignments, papers and projects, along with required forum participation at least once a week - sometimes more - where you have to respond thoughtfully to a minimum of 3 other students' posts. 

Anyway, sorry to sound defensive but online programs are like any other educational opportunity. You get out of it what you are willing to put into it. 

 I completed my entire BA online through Penn State University World Campus program. it was no joke (and no scam). It was a ton of work, in addition to individual course work there were group projects with classmates across the country and all exams were proctored by an approved person (in my case the director of HR at my place of employment).

I failed miserably in traditional classroom settings, being able to complete my BA online was a life changer. 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by theredhead77
I keep finding typos

[peacheslatour]

Isn't the main thing to avoid the for profit type "universities"?

[theredhead77]

18 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Isn't the main thing to avoid the for profit type "universities"?

Mostly. And to choose a well known, established university that added a remote program to their brick and mortar offering (vs being a 100% online school).

[tessaray]

20 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Isn't the main thing to avoid the for profit type "universities"?

For profit is not always a bad thing, especially in niche areas.  I had a really bad experience with a pushy, horrid sales person at the University of Phoenix when I was looking into programs but several work mates did their MBA program there, which corresponded closely to other institutions, as far as I could see.  

The bad actors have really made it harder for online education, though.  A lot of people equate all online programs with degree mills, which is so not the case. But as more people experience it, I think some of that prejudice is fading.  

I felt a lot of sympathy for Harris when she was getting pulled into the idea of life on campus and then being rudely brought back to reality. I'm not sure where her streak of pragmatism came from but it's something sorely needed in the Conner clan.   

[peacheslatour]

37 minutes ago, tessaray said:

For profit is not always a bad thing, especially in niche areas.  I had a really bad experience with a pushy, horrid sales person at the University of Phoenix when I was looking into programs but several work mates did their MBA program there, which corresponded closely to other institutions, as far as I could see.  

The bad actors have really made it harder for online education, though.  A lot of people equate all online programs with degree mills, which is so not the case. But as more people experience it, I think some of that prejudice is fading.  

I felt a lot of sympathy for Harris when she was getting pulled into the idea of life on campus and then being rudely brought back to reality. I'm not sure where her streak of pragmatism came from but it's something sorely needed in the Conner clan.   

Nana Mary?

[Brn2bwild]

This is the most I've liked Harris this whole series. Maybe because the actress is done filming Shameless at the moment and has time to do more than pop into a scene here and there to glower.  Sarcastic, pragmatic Harris can stick around.

[mostlylurking]

On 1/31/2020 at 2:21 PM, HurricaneVal said:

It really hit me in that scene where Jackie was wearing a beret exactly like Bev does.

I thought she was wearing the beret because she was hanging out with the Cheryl Hines character, going to wine festivals and speaking French.